Adil Najam
Yesterday, the headlines screamed of yet more US drone attacks within Pakistan leaving 18 dead. Today, they bemoan 11 killed in Swat in continuing fighting between military and militants. Meanwhile, following on earlier reports of extremists banning women from entering cloth markets in Swat, now we hear of restraunts in Quetta banning the entry of women after succumbing to the fear tactics of fanatics. The tragedy is that news of barbarism – men killed and hung in the public square because their shalwar was not hiked up to the right length – have become so common that one does not even register as unusual.
We at ATP do not want to be and cannot be a newspaper. But we must stand witness to what is happening. We can neither be silent at, nor accepting of, the mayhem around us.
We create this post as a space where we will periodically update the outrage that is befalling our society. It is not possible for a blog to chronicle all that is happening, but lest we forget – or, even worse, we get used to – the outrage, let us at least speak out against it when we can.
- February 5, 2009. 24 killed and more deaths expected in attack on Shia procession in Dera Ghazi Khan. The News: “Death toll has climbed to 24 while over 30 others were wounded in a bomb explosion that ripped through a mourners procession in Muslim Town here, IG Punjab confirmed Thursday. Talking to Geo News, IG Punjab Shaukat Javed said the explosion left no crater on the ground indicating the blast could be a suicide attack. The blast ripped through a mourners’ procession in Muslim Town outside Johar Ali Imam Bargah. Rescue teams arrived at the scene immediate after the explosion and shifted the dead and injured to the district headquarter hospital where many are said to be in critical condition. The explosion, which shattered the windowpanes of the nearby buildings, enraged the participants of the procession and they chanting slogans against the government.”
- February 4, 2009. Editorial in The News: “After Peshawar, the city of Quetta seems to be falling into the hands of militants. The kidnapping of the chief of the UNHCR in the city is the latest evidence of this. Past threats have led to the UN reducing activities in the province. The Islamabad government must wake up to the reality that it is in danger of becoming a state no one wishes to venture into. Something must be done to end this swift descent into anarchy.”
- February 4, 2009. The News: “Militants in Swat on Tuesday warned that all lawyers and judges, being part of an ‘infidel judicial system’, would be killed if they did not quit their profession. Announced on their illegal FM radio, the threat from insurgents — intent upon forcing their ideology on residents of the restive valley — has obviously scared the legal fraternity. The Swat Bar Association president confirmed the lives of 300 of his co-professionals were under threat and he was trying to contact the fighters in an effort to assure them that the lawyers were ready to work under an Islamic judicial regime.”
- February 4, 2009. The News: “Unidentified militants blew up two boys’ schools in Salarzai Tehsil of the restive Bajaur Agency on Tuesday. Sources said militants blew up the Government High School, Pusht, and a primary school in the Salarzai area with explosives. No loss of life was reported as both the schools were closed. The militants have so far destroyed 27 schools in the Bajaur Agency.“
- February 3, 2009. Daily Times: “The military on Monday claimed it had killed 70 Taliban and injured several others during its assault on a village in Chaharbagh tehsil of Swat, a private TV channel reported. Earlier on Monday, Swat police recovered eight bullet-ridden bodies from the restive region. “The bullet-ridden bodies of eight local residents were found on Monday morning in various areas of Swat,†said a police official, requesting anonymity. The official blamed the killings on the Taliban loyal to rebel cleric Fazlullah, who have executed dozens of government employees and pro-government supporters in the past year. Trapped amidst clashes between the Taliban and security forces, residents in Swat have begun a mass exodus from the area. Thousands of civilians were fleeing the fighting in the valley, Reuters reported. “We have been punished for no fault of our own,†said a man, trudging along a mountain path with his family and about 100 other villagers, laden with children and bundles of belongings.”
- February 2, 2009. The News: “Thirty-two persons, including three soldiers, were killed and 22 others sustained injures as the security forces intensified the operation in Swat valley on Sunday. The ISPR-run Swat Media Centre in Mingora claimed that the security forces have killed 16 militants during the last 24 hours. Locals said most of the people killed in Charbagh and Sangota during shelling were civilians, who were finding it difficult to move to safer places due to the perpetual curfew and escalating clashes.Two persons were killed in firing at ambulances belonging to Medicine Sans Frontiers and Edhi, which were shifting the injured to a hospital. Three officials also sustained injuries in the incident. Bodies of the slain officials were lying in Charbagh. The injured were writhing in pain but nobody could go near them. It could not be ascertained as to who fired at the ambulances as militants and security forces blamed each other for the incident. Three personnel of the security forces were killed in a clash with the militants in the Sar Banda area of Matta Tehsil. “
- February 1, 2009. Daily Times: “Nine people, including three security personnel, were killed on Saturday in fresh incidents of violence in NWFP’s Swat district. Locals said three people were killed in a clash between security personnel and the Taliban in the Dherai area of Kabal tehsil. Three people were killed as helicopter gunships targeted Taliban positions in Kabal. The forces’ air attack also destroyed a self-proclaimed Taliban court building.”
- January 31, 2009. Daily Times: “The Taliban on Friday distributed leaflets in Miranshah and Mir Ali in the North Waziristan Agency warning the Pakistan Army not to set up medical camps, open schools or hospitals in the area. The Taliban warned the army and the NGOs to stop their activities in the agency as ‘through these activities they were misleading the tribal people.’ ‘We warn the army and NGOs to refrain from mischief and carrying out such work otherwise they will be responsible for any losses,’ said the leaflet in Urdu, a copy of which was obtained by AFP.”
January 30, 2009. Daily Times: “Veteran ethnic Pashtun politician Muhammad Afzal Khan has refused to leave home in Swat, even though the Taliban have repeatedly tried to kill him, and says the people should stand up to the militants. Many families have fled, while residents say many policemen have either deserted or simply refuse to act against the Taliban, who have shot, blown up or beheaded numerous officers. But Khan, an 82-year-old former cabinet minister known as Afzal Lala, or Afzal the Elder, has chosen to stay on to try to rally resistance to the Taliban.”I’m from this soil. It’s my home. My tribe is here,” Khan told Reuters in a telephone interview. “I want to live among my people. I won’t run away.” The Taliban have tried to kill Khan three times and have placed him on top of a list of politicians and prominent residents they have demanded appear before their ‘courts’. Residents refer to the list as a ‘hit list’. Khan, who lives in a well-guarded house surrounded by fruit trees, said he had faith. “Being a Muslim, I have faith in Allah. Nothing can happen to me no matter if Fazlullah puts my name on his list or not.”"- January 29, 2009. Dawn: “Taking a leaf out of their counterpart’s war on education in Swat, suspected militants blew up a government school for boys near a security post in the Nawagai subdivision of Bajaur Agency on Tuesday night. An official of the Fata education directorate said 20 government schools had been destroyed in the region since a military operation was launched last year.”
- January 29, 2009. The News reports: “Sixteen more people, including seven militants, were killed and 23 others injured in Swat violence on Wednesday, as Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani vowed to establish the writ of the government. The militants’ commander and presenter on FM Radio channel, Maulana Khalil, who recently replaced Shah Dauran, claimed to have killed 35 security forces personnel in Qambar. Bodies of the victims were still lying on the road due to curfew.”
January 28, 2009. The News, “the Maulana Fazlullah-led militants on Tuesday blew up two more boys’ schools in Kabal, taking the number of destroyed schools to 188. A primary school was destroyed with explosives in Koza Bandai village of Kabal. Another school was reduced to rubble in Dherai. Official sources put the number of the torched or destroyed schools at 188, most of them girls’ schools.”- January 28, 2009. Daily Times, “Suspected US drones flew over various areas of North Waziristan Agency on Tuesday, a private TV channel reported. According to the channel, the pilotless aircraft made three to four flights over various parts of the agency, spreading panic among the tribesmen who are already concerned over the growing missile strikes in the Tribal Areas.”
- January 27, 2009. Daily Times, “The body of Muhammad Hussain, resident of village Madda Khel in Datta Khel tehsil, was found by the roadside, 30 kilometres west of Miranshah. The Taliban had also chopped off the right hand of Hussain, who was abducted a week ago. A note found nearby said Hussain was a US spy and those spying for the US would meet the same fate.”
- January 27, 2009. Daily Times, “The NWFP government has lost its writ in the volatile Swat valley, the ruling ANP admitted in the Senate on Monday. ANP senators Haji Adeel and Ilyas Bilour said the insurgency was spilling over to the rest of the country and would ‘reach Islamabad sooner than Lahore’. Bilour said Taliban had demolished more than 300 schools in the region once considered liberal. Senator Razina Alam said more than 80,000 children could not go to school and 8,000 teachers had lost their jobs.”
- January 27, 2009. Dawn, “Militants in Swat blew up another school and at least seven people were killed and several others injured as violence continued on Monday. Two people were killed in Manglawar when a shell hit their houses. Ten people, among them children and a woman, were injured when a shell hit their house in Charbagh. A civilian was shot dead for violating curfew in Charbagh. Local people reported having seen four bullet-ridden bodies in fields in Nengolai area of Kabal, but could not remove them because of curfew.”
- January 26, 2009. Daily Times. “Swat Taliban have released a list of 43 people who they have declared ‘wanted’ and liable to punishment… The ‘wanted’ men also include former and current members of the national and provincial assemblies, district and local nazims, officials of political parties, local elders and other influential residents of the restive valley. The announcement that the leaders were liable to punishment and must appear in Taliban courts was made by rebel cleric Mullah Fazlullah on his FM radio channel on Sunday morning, locals said. The brazen announcement comes only two days after a provincial minister from the Awami National Party (ANP) and two members of the NWFP Assembly visited the valley to express support for the people of Swat against the Taliban.” The full list here.
January 25, 2009. Daily Times. “An increasing number of restaurants in Quetta have stopped serving women apparently after being pressured by religious elements, and the practice is being seen as a spill-over of the Swat problem to the rest of Pakistan. Certain popular restaurants have now begun to display boards saying, ‘For gentlemen only. Women not allowed.’ Located on the city’s most crowded Jinnah Road, Baig Snack Bar has been one of the most popular eating places in Quetta. Keeping in view its popularity among women and children, the bar had dedicated a separate room to women and families. But the restaurant has recently succumbed to pressure from the conservative religious elements after allegations that it was being used as a ‘dating spot’ for young boys and girls.- January 24, 2009. Daily Times. “Two suspected United Sates drone attacks killed 18 people in North and South Waziristan agencies on Friday, security officials said, the first such strikes since the inauguration of US President Barack Obama, AP reported. At least five victims were said to be foreign terrorists, an intelligence officer said. The strikes were the latest in a barrage of more than 30 US strikes since the middle of last year.”
- January 24, 2009. Dawn. “Two security personnel and three civilians were killed in a suicide attack and a bomb blast near Mingora on Friday. A car laden with explosives blew up near the Fizagat checkpost, killing two security personnel and injuring 22 others.Three civilians, including a woman, were killed and two soldiers were injured when a security forces’ vehicle hit a roadside bomb near the Takhtaband bypass on the outskirts of Mingora.”
January 23, 2009. The News. “Militants gunned down Amjad Islam, teacher of a private school who himself waged a Jihad against the Soviet forces in Afghanistan, for not hiking up his shalwar (trouser) above his ankles. However, the issue did not end here but the militants went to the slain teacher’s house and gunned down his father, Ghani Akbar, a lawyer by profession. The militants later hung Amjad’s body from a pole in the Matta College Square.”- January 22, 2009. The News. “Continuing their attacks on schools, the militants destroyed two more schools in Khwazakhela and Matta areas. A government boys school was blown up in Sherpalam area of Matta, while a primary school was torched in Mangaltan village of Khwazakhela. Some unknown assailants attacked a police armoured personnel carrier (APC) in Saidu Sharif, the capital city of Swat district. The attack caused injuries to an official, Chinar Gul.”
- January 21, 2009. The News. “Militants issued another decree on Tuesday, asking the local people to wear caps and stop shaving beards after January 25. The militants set January 25 as deadline for keeping beards in the Matta Tehsil of the valley and also asked people to wear caps in order to implement their self-styled Shariah in the area. They had already stopped barbers from shaving and trimming beards in the valley while following their fresh decree all barbers displayed ‘shave is banned’ posters at their shops. Militants sources said after the expiry of the deadline, no one in Matta Tehsil would be allowed to trim beard as they were trying for the establishment of a complete Islamic society. ‘It is in the best interest of the people,’ they added.”
January 20, 2009. The News. “Suspected militants blew up five schools, including two girls, in Mingora city overnight while the deputy chief of Swat militants threatened the editor and staff of a local newspaper with action for publishing a story against them. The militants blew up the Government High School No 1 and Government Primary School No 1 Banr, Government Girls’ High School and Government Girls Primary School in Tahirabad and a middle school in Angordherai. The blasts destroyed the buildings of these schools, besides damaging the nearby houses and shops. The attacks came in the wake of expiry of deadline for closing down all government and private girls’ schools.
P.S. The dates listed are the dates when the event was reported, not necessarily when it happened.
I disagree with your statement “have become so common that one does not even register as unusual.”
these events in swat ahve not registered till very recently. People have more interesting things to protest about, unemployed judges and gaza. NWFP and God knows where else may well soon be the emirate of talibanistan
These are horrendous deeds.
Killed and hung because shalwar is not correct. How much more barbaric can these crazy mullahs get. They are indeed the enemies f Pakistan and enemies of Islam.
This is really hard to believe. I can’t believe these incidents are happening. This is just total insanity. Where’s the police and local and provincial government in all of this? Are they unaware? Or unwilling to do anything about this?
So….just to repeat…
January 23, 2009. The News.
D_A_N: You continue to sing same anthem again and again. You cleverly ignored the innocents killed in Drone attacks but you continue to talk about people killed in suicide attacks.
The difference between me and pseudo liberals like you is that I don’t make difference between the people killed in Missile attacks by your United States of A and people killed by religious rights of Pakistan/Afghanistan.
Asking me to condemn..why don’t I see any statement by you in sympathy of those who are being killed by US almost daily in attacks? why don’t you have mercy for them? Is it because you feel you will be kicked out from Farangi Land? I don’t get it but for me Amjad is not superior than innocents killed by Americans. Both are same. Both got same blood color.
I want to add one thing further, while these wanna be liberals sing praises of USA, they usually forget how *innocently* they speak language of religious rights of America when they use terms like Militants,Jehadists and Mullah.
It was funny to see how Secular America accepted a President who take oath on Bible and Believed in a God more than “secular laws”.
What we see in swat or else where is the hidden face of our society, now in open and wild. I am from swat and know such people and their mentality existed since the beginning (thanks to Mullah). There were people who were opposing education of women, shaving people were looked as, sometimes, “close to Kafir”. Every sort of trouble was seen as “conspiracy”.
But now it all came out, or channelised to fulfil wishes and needs of a bunch of people. The reason I am adding my comment is that many people (taliban from swat) I know myself or friends and other people know are totally “losers”. These are people who never did any good in their lives, or were completely helpless, corrupt, completely negative minded, unemployed and now they have suddenly found themselves at the centre of attention and power.
Mullah Fazlullah was a useless guy couldn’t complete his education or ILAM and then thought to buy paradise but participating in JIHAD or who knows what other reasons. Muslim khan was a sailor, involved in sculpture smuggling and did all sort of evils. Shahdawran is so called “Pahtun”, who just live all their life with the pride of their family and clan, worth nothing and done nothing all his life, being ignored all his life as had no land, which is the mark for “Pukhton”.
There are still people who don’t condemn all such acts the taliban are doing and the worst part is such people find reasons or term everything simply as “conspiracy” or DONE by army themselves!!!!
At the end, there is a Mullah sitting in every mosque who still preaches the same ideas the taliban are imposing by force!!!
NWFP and tribal areas are in war and the situation is worsening with each passing day. Kidnappings, beheading. bombing of schools and other things are quickly eroding the whatsoever of state has left in this part of the country and it is gradually becoming lawless land.
However, our nation has no time to stand by their brothers in NWFP, instead they have more important things on their mind.
What is the use of NWFP and tribal areas, if foreign dollars are coming in the country and Zardari and his kitchen cabinet in Islamabad have public money to squander. There are very much urgent matters at hand like the deposed judges, Gaza, Farah Dogar etc, then what is the use of crying over NWFP. All our political parities unanimously cry foul over Israeli attacks on Gaza, they should do. But why they are silent when the future of a generation is blackened in Swat, by outlawing the girls education.
No outcry, no protest and not some words of sympathy with the people of Swat, who are braving the horrendous threat unleashed on them by Taliban. The situation is same from plains of Peshawar to wilderness of Waziristan to steppes of Swat, but there is no outcry, no sympathy and no support with the people of Frontier. Let, our countrymen to enjoy their freedoms, at least there is no threats to the daughters of those in Karachi, Islamabad and Lahore, who attend their school. They do not brave any threat due to religious conviction, liberalism, caste or creed. But one thing is there, we those living in Frontier should want to convey to their brothers in other parts of the country, they do not need to take pain for those being prosecuted in Frontier and tribal areas and should enjoy their life, war on terror is still too away from their homes and streets. The same feeling was in Peshawar, when the Wazirisistan was burning in 2004. They only want them to read and ponder over the Martin Niem
These people are perhaps short of recruits. So they are destroying schools so that students are left with no choice but to go to madrassas.
Mulla allies and JAHIL element of forces intentially keeping rest of the Pakistan in dark about terrorist activities of talibans. They think by these strategy they could takeover whole society step by step. Mulla in masajids just criticising upon liberal society, they are yet posing talibans as jihadi not terrorist.
Govt and media are just joking about non issues. Swat situation is terrible like Gaza.
These mullahs are armed, and they are absolutely nuts.
I am a liberal and a pacifist, but I am increasingly coming around to the view that negotiations with these barbarians are not possible. On a theoretical level, negotiations require some kind of common ground on which all parties can search for compromise. However, how does the state of Pakistan negotiate with these mullahs when the latter will never give up their ideological aims, which include the destruction of all things secular (including the state of Pakistan) and the elimination of all public space and rights for women?
And the next person to bemoan drone strikes against Al Qaeda and Taliban targets must also denounce the militants’ use of families and civilians as human shields.
These JAHIL elements were always left unbridled by our so called people’s governments whose founder was so scared that he succumbed to some demands much against the popular opposition of the majority.ZA Bhutto gave these imbeciles a taste of blood and Zia did the rest. All later governments military or not continued policy of appeasement till today.Just listen to what happens at FAJR .Load shedding or no load shedding the loud speakers blow at their loudest trying to beat each other totally disrespecting the sanctity of Prayers and ignoring the agony of the sick and old.We are told that call for prayers from every roof top is made when some calamity is expected.It is exactly in that manner that we hear Azan e Fajr.To a new comer or any normal human being this behavior is not civilized.Then comes our media specially electronic who make them heroes.We have to pay attention to the voices of sanity and Mr.Ghamdi is one such voice.
I heard Taliban are going to proscribe marrying a woman. Anyone who marries a woman will be executed publicly. Is that ture?
It’s very sad about the situation taking place in Pakistan. On the one hand, the USA (my country) is bombing sites in the North West Frontier part of the country and killing innocent civilians in the process. On the other hand the Taliban are also killing innocent civilians.
I have been a friend of Pakistan for over 35 years and have been a constant observer of what has transpired.
I’m very sorry for the behavior of America in all of this and I apologize as a private citizen of that country.
My question: Can Pakistan call in help from some friendly Muslim nations to help to route out the Taliban? For example, Turkey or Iran? This would be much better than America doing anything there since it stirs up resentment among the common people. And Pakistan would thereby be making a common Islamic front against terrorism.
Pakistan is a potent military power, but even the so-called great powers of the world band-up with their allies when there is military action to be accomplished.
Adil Bhai,
IS SWAT STILL IN PAKISTAN?
Just consider this question for a moment and I am sure it will make you shudder.
Swat is the big issue and needs the attention of all the masses so we can save Pakistan’s paradise. The following posts are informative and will help us all in educating us in the truth and hopefully in raising our voices against the vile Taliban who are hell-bent on destroying Pakistan:
http://blog.otherpakistan.org/
http://blog.otherpakistan.org/2009/01/25/the-silent-massacre-of-swat/
http://blog.otherpakistan.org/2009/01/18/sunglasses-sherry-swat/
http://blog.otherpakistan.org/2009/01/15/is-swat-still-in-pakistan/
Feimanallah Swat
Wasim
For Allah’s sake, can we at least agree that this has nothing to do with ‘Islam’ but is an attempt by a criminal group to coopt the ideas of Islam and use them for a barbaric power grab. The only people who want to make this about Islam are either those who really support the Taliban or those who hate Islam so much that they want everyone to believe that this is the Islam.
Part of the reason that these guys are winning is because those on the left make it so personal and Islam-bashing that those on the right find themselves cornered into seeming to defend these gys when theya re only defending their faith.
Whether it is US military planes killing Pakistanis in North Waziristan, or Taliban in Swat or suicide bombers in Islamabad, it is Pakistanis dying and that is what I cry about, Pakistanis dying.
You are doing a service by highlighting and reminding us of what is happening. As you point out the danger is that we will all become used to this.
US bomb drone strikes may not be causing what is happening in Swat, but they are not helping.
Now we see the jahalat spreading to other areas, like in your Quetta example but you can actually see it everywhere in small doses now but they will grow.
These people rule with fear, which is why they hang people in the public square. They are telling everyone else that what would happen to them if they did not comply. That is how fascists always behave.
We can shout at the army, but the fact is that this can only be tackled by society and ordinary Pakistanis themselves. Too many of us are either just quiet or somewhat supporting this because they have made us believe that this is about religion. As others have said it is not. Unless the army sees this as fighting FOR something that ordinary Pakistanis believe in rather than as fighting AGAINST Pakistanis, this will never succeed.
it is funny to see how our government is completely quite on all this matter but when US attacks militants then government says “attacks by drones” are not helping in fight against terror, i personally believe that we should let Americans start a jihad against these Taliban and we should help them otherwise we as a nation helping Taliban.
i am an atheist but i respect all religions but i think this extrem version of Islam should be eliminate at any cost. we as Pakistani are not far from being in stone age era and these Taliban sure will take us to that age.
The problem with Muslims in general and with Pakistanis in particular is their poor state of mind. They are in denial of their miserable mental, financial and social condition. All they have learned is to blame others for their shortcomings. It may be true to some extend but just by blaming others you cannot make any positive change. Even though they claim but neither their actions nor the behavior show that they are followers of a true religion. It has become fashion to bring religion in all their discussions except in their behavior. Except physical display and some rituals, the true teachings and spirit of Islam is missing. Unfortunately, ignorance, intolerance, fanaticism, fascism, shortsightedness, and laziness has become their prime virtues. The religious mafia, so called Mullas, is a curse on them due to politicizing and using Holy name of Islam for their vested interests. Either Muslim masses are too na
I feel that ATP are not helping the situation. They are being dishonest in their news reporting of the conflict. For example, the man who was shot dead for not having his salwar up to the right length: ATP fails to mention that this man SHOT A MILITANT DEAD FIRST before being killed by the militants.
Proof here: http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=19834
So in effect, ATP have portrayed the Tehreek-e-Taleban as ones who would kill you if you did not wear the correct lenght salwar – which I doubt is the case.
I enjoy reading ATP, but I have to say: shame on you for your propaganda. At times like these, we should look for reconciliation rather than more hate.
@Pakistani Atheist: and Lets spread Secular Extremism as alternative,right? let the sanity prevail in form of lefts extremism.
By the way, how many of you read that Barack “Hussain” Obama endorses Missile attacks.
http://www.dawn.com/2009/01/25/top3.htm
I don’t i can’t understand what kind of Muslims they are. I think they don’t deserve to call Muslims. Another side, we don’t see any roll of government. What he is doing to stop American attacks.
Zecchetti,
It may not be reported fully but what was the cause of all bloodshed? What was the fault of his father? There is no point of justifying the barbaric action of these religious fanatics, mulla-mafia, and mosters. Open your eyes man, who will be loser tomorrow, it will be innocent people and religious of Islam. Now either wahabis will eliminate all others sects or some Kamal Ataturk will come and stop them forcefully. There is no future of Islam in Pakistan, either wahabism or secularism. Real Islam will be loser in either case.
Is it fair to say that pre-partition Muslims (living among Hindus and Sikhs) displayed more religious tolerance than the Muslims of today? I think so.
I believe that it is good to live in a multi-faceted society, simply because it is much more difficult to get carried away by delusions of collective grandiosity and self-righteousness.
Having said all this, we know what the problem is and what it looks and feels like, etc, but what is the solution? Maybe that is what we need to talk about more, in this forum.
Zecchetti, I think the one being unfair and defensive and propaganda is you. Even if what you say is true, and in the news reports I have seen that was not mentioned anywhere, are you defending the Taliban for this murder because it is OK to kill someone because they killed someone else. Who gave these ignorant thugs the right to do so? I think trying to defend the Taliban and their brutality through such arguments is what is dangerous. I cannot imagine how any Muslim can defend what this brutal beasts are doing in teh name of our religion.
To me the most frightening aspect of this situation is the behavior of society at large and mainstream Mullahs. The masses are mostly indifferent to what is happening around them and a significant number carry some level of sympathy for the Taliban although most of them only view it good as long as it doesn’t impact their own lives. I bet none of them are very keen on living under the “Sharia rule” Taliban are trying to impose.
And while you expect madness from people like Moulana Fazlullah, the behavior of people like Qazi Hussain Ahmed and likes is not very different. Just last week, Mr. Hussain alleged that Taliban are blowing up girl schools because the security forces are using them in their fight. I couldn’t think of one but perhaps he can offer a reason as to why the security forces would have special fondness for girls schools only. I would also like to ask him what great purpose the Taliban are pursuing that makes it acceptable for them to fight and brutally kill the people who are trying to uphold the law.
Rauf Kalasara had a good column on this couple of days ago in Jang: http://jang.com.pk/jang/jan2009-daily/25-01-2009/col9.htm
Who is the jury and judge of deciding about who is following real Islam? Can anyone prove here that Taliban are not acting more in cognizance to how the Prophet himself would have commanded in 7th century Arabia? The idea is simple, men and women should be thoroughly segregated and there should be NO contact at all between the two genders in society. That is what Taliban is implementing, as recommended by Islam.
Following the fundamentals of Islam is difficult in modern times. If Taliban are trying to implement it, obviously some are going to find it out of place or strange. That does not mean Taliban are not practicing the fundamentals of Islam.
The problem is that Pakistanis need to make a choice between Islam and western secular ideals. Pakistanis are hoping that they will get away with a society where they will follow Islam to a minimal extent as they like and adopt the modern secular principles of the west as per their convenience.
That is not gonna happen. It is either total Islam or nothing. Pakistan must choose.
Saudiboy,
It is appalling to see the twisted version of Islam that you present in your comments. Do I need to remind you that in the era of Phophet, women were an active part of society so much so that they even participated in wars? Also are you not aware of the fact that killing innocents (muslims or otherwise) is strictly forbidden and carries great punishment according to Quranic teachings? According to Islam, the killing one innocent soul is comparable to the killing of entire mankind so what can possibly justify these horrendous actions by the Taliban?
Returning to the state of affairs, whenever I telephoned my family in NWFP, everybody always and very anxiously asked me when was I visiting Pakistan again – this morning I got a phone call from Peshawar warning me not to return as things are pretty bad … This speaks volume. In my opinion nothing will be done by the government until the heart of Punjab is threatened… wait when these guys get into Sialkot, Faisalabad and Lahore for example and only then will our photogenic leaders get in gear to save the ultimate country…
“…provided you can persuade the masses to believe that something they are asked to do is religiously right or enjoined by religion, you can set them to any course of action, regardless of all considerations of discipline, loyalty, decency, morality or civic sense.
Saudi Boy – NO where in the Quran or in GOD made system has GOD said that women and men have to be thoroughly segregated. IF such was the case I am sure Allah would have clearly forbidded us to do UMRA together with WOMEN. Something for you all to think about.
In fact, this segregation is the one responsible for creating countless gay men in countries like Saudi Arabia – an abnormal society. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) married a trader wife and she for trading purposes no doubt had to speak a lot of men – something today’s idiotic Mullahs wont agree with.
Allah has given man and woman the limits and no matter where we live we must abide them segregation or not.
Studying together in Universities or at work places is not and never was forbidden in Islam, its the man-made systems that has ruined the GOD given system – which is the most beautiful system to ever exist.
Jauhar: quoting some one off incidents about some innocents killed will not prove anything. One off incidents are everywhere. The question is about following the fundamental and true spirit of Islam in it’s entirety as is recommended in the holy book and the hadiths. That is the question that you and others in your society are trying to evade. You people are hoping that you shall be able to distort the fundamentals of our religion and blend it with western ideals to make a concocted society to live in.
Taliban represents an effort to go back to purity. In a broad general way, few excesses notwithstanding, Taliban are doing the real jehad, of bringing back a society to the basic principles of Islam. In that process they may make some mistakes, but that has no bearing on their basic purpose – to repel western ideas and to bring fundamental purity – that is in cognizance to what the Prophet would have wanted.
The least you guys could have done is to use a Pakistani map with complete Kashmir included as a part of Pakistan.
Why don
I guess this is Saudiboy’s silly attempt to be humorous by choosing a name and write a hate-filled comment to incite more hatred against Islam and also Saudi Arabia. Bad joke. Bad taste.
No Muslim would ever dare say such nonsense as believing that killing people for not having the right shalwar length or not allowing women in women clothes shop is what Islam is.
Only teh Taliban and their spporter believe them. Pakistanis are actually VERY clear on this and that this has nothing to do with Islam. Only Islam haters – Taliban as well as otehr bigoted varieties believe this.
So, no sense is even responding to this any more.
Interesting how some Taliban supporters here keep trying to make this about Islam. I guess they take great pleasure in using this to attack people’s faith. Paksitanis have no confusion at all. We know exactly that these Taliban and anyone who believes that their acts are about religion are the true enemies of Islam and Pakistan.
The real supporters of the Taliban are all fo those who are trying to portray this as an Islamic act. It is not and all Pakistanis know this.
I am not sure whether SaudiBoy really believes what he is writing or not, but he has raised several important issues. I am sure that you will find many many people who will actually support Taliban’s version of Islam, or most of it any how, barring the killings and all. Islam prohibits a lot of things that we consider to be OK in our society: consider music and television, and open mixing of the sexes for instance. All those that are trying to portray Islam as a moderate and “modern” religion are fighting a losing battle in my opinion.
Its high time that we wake up to the fact that we cannot allow mixing of the religion and the state, and that the only place religion belongs is in the private personal space of individuals.
Fundamentally, Islam, or most other religions for that matter do NOT treat all humans equally. Anyone who doesn’t believe in the oneness of Allah is destined to hell, and this, in my opinion is too harsh a condition for those born in non-muslim families. They are destined to hell based on effectively where they were born.
There is no use in trying to portray any religion as being modern and progressive, because at the end of the day, nearly none of them are. Its high time that most people realize this and start working for a secular and just Pakistan where all humans are treated with dignity and respect, irrespective of their color, creed or religion.
Pakistan must rely upon itself and stop relying on outside powers. That is the most important thing. You may encounter hardships in the quest for self-reliance, but it will pay yet unrealized dividends.
China has done that and so can Pakistan.
…Relying on outside powers is what is causing most of Pakistan’s difficulties.
It is funny and at the same time disconcerting to see that many so-called Muslims in Pakistan think that talking about implementing the God mad rule Shariat is a joke.
Question is simple: Do Pakistanis really believe that the Quran and the Shariat is from Allah himself and Mohammad PBUH was the last and foremost Prophet of Allah?
If yes, can anyone here give a single good reason why Shariat should not be implemented in its entirety in Pakistan?
I challenge any believer to give an honest good answer to this question. I dont want to talk to so-called Muslims who are only keen on insulting Saudi Arabia and Islam.
I agree, only Taliban and Taliban supporters think that this has anything to do with religion.
Post has been updated with latest news (for January 26, 2009).
It pains me to see how many Taliban supporters there are here. Those who are either trying to be defensive about their action or who actually believe their propaganda about their actions being about religion. It is these Taliban supporters like DL, SaudiBoy, etc. who make the Taliban successful.
Dear Editors, thank you for this post and also for updating it. Please keep updating this every day. We need to be reminded what these animals are doing to our country and our religion.
Their latest action of making public a murder death list of people they will kill is an open admission of treason against the country and of criminalty. All action must be taken against them and whatever our differences are with govt and army, we must support them in winning the war against these barbaric animals.
I am a non-Pakistani Punjabi and yet have become an avid reader of ATP for its informative stories and the discussions that I find stimulating. Also what happens in Pakistan will affect a large number of people outside Pakistan.
Personally, I can empathize with the struggle the Pakistani society and the intelligencia in particular must be going through right now.
I believe there are three simultanously pressing questions that frame the current chaos and need answers:
1. While Pakistan is a land of the Muslims, and for the Muslims of South Asia, the Pakistanis themselves have to decide as to what kind of the practice of Islam is acceptable to them; That of the Wahabi\Taliban version of orthodox yet suffocating kind or the Sufi\enlightened version of those in Europe (Turkey\Bosnia) and other parts of Asia (Indonesia\Malaysia)
2. Who is the final authority in the state; the state it self with its laws and law courts and the machinery of police and para military forces OR a parallel entity (that may appeal to some citizens, fed up with the state inefficiency\corruption) yet that is based on violence and fear and has completly arbitary rules.
3. If some forces not under the state control operate from the sovereign Pakistani territory (FATA etc) is it possible to ask for diplomatic, economic, and limited military aid from friendly countries to vanquish them speedily OR to pretend it is NOT a problem, Pakistani Sovereignity is not being violated regularly and inocent people are NOT being squeezed on both sides ; both as victims of terrorism and as ‘collateral damage’ (a sanitized term that I hate myself) that becomes inevitable by the US Drone attacks etc.
It is the answer to these questions that should be debated in Pakistan by its elite, by its middle classes and by its ruling classes.
@DL. Appreciate your views.
IMHO the modern world is so inter-connected and so inter-dependant, there is no room in it for any one religion to deny another. Thus we the inhabitants of this small planet have no other choice to treating religion as a very personal affair while the public interaction should be based on secular laws for all peoples, anywhere and everywhere on this Earth.
Can someone please tell me what are talibans fighting for?
@Ehsan
How on earth did you get DL to be a Taliban observer?
“Its high time that we wake up to the fact that we cannot allow mixing of the religion and the state, and that the only place religion belongs is in the private personal space of individuals.”
That doesn’t sound as if he’s following the Taliban line at all; quite the opposite in fact. In my opinion, his comments have general application, beyond Pakistan, for India just as much as for Pakistan. For instance, he says,
“There is no use in trying to portray any religion as being modern and progressive, because at the end of the day, nearly none of them are. Its high time that most people realize this and start working for a secular and just Pakistan where all humans are treated with dignity and respect, irrespective of their color, creed or religion.”
Precisely. For specific context, please find out what the Sri Rama Sene have been up to in Mangalore. You’d be surprised, unpleasantly surprised.
Zeeshan, they are fighting for their self imposition
Hi friends,
I have no idea what is going on in our country that is no reason for any fanatic to fight for any thing. Because I don’t really see the reason what they’re doing the killing their own brothers and sisters putting barriers to the education of our own youth. Will there be an end to it? Our governments have failed to curtail the terrorism threat that looms over our heads. Most of the Time I Don’t Feel Secure by Going out with My Family. Even today in DI KHAN five people have been killed by a bomb attached to a bicycle. May God have mercy on us.
To all those who are fascinated by Talibani interpretation of islam, is it too much to ask of you people to migrate to Afghanistan and leave the rest of us infidels alone? I am sure the “real” Taliban in Kandhar will welcome you as their brothers.
And don’t tell them that you used this unislamic thing called computer and Internet using the satan’s language English.
I find a strong response to this so called ‘saudiboy’ and rightly so. Please don’t get worked up by this person who hides his true identity…… FOR WHAT PURPOSE?It is anybody’s guess.Such persons do not deserve your attention.
@Bonobashi
Yes, certainly DL is a Taliban beiever. In fact many of the commentors here who seem to act as if they do not like Talibans are in fact teh biggest believers in the Taliban message and the greatest supporters of the Taliban. Here is how:
Look at the comments here or any Paksitani TV station or newspaper. Note that NO PRACTICING MUSLIM will ever describe what they are doing as Islam. The only one who BELIEVE teh taliban message (which is that their barbarism is Islam) are (a) the Taliban themselves and (b) those already bigoted or prejudiced against Islam who take the worst behavior of individual or groups of Muslims and say only these worse things are ‘real’ Islam.
As with any cult the Taliban want is for people to believe that they are real Muslims. People who believe them when they say this are TALIBAN BELIEVERS. Again, note that no practicing Muslim ever says that. It is always outsiders who give in to their prejudice because the taliban serve their purpose. Conversely, these people, like DL, also serve the Taliban’s purpose. So, both the bigots and the Taliban are happy – since it is Pakistanis and Muslims who die, and both these groups (Taliban gangsters and bigoted Islam bashers) have no problem whatsoever with that).
Pir Sami-ullah was shot by the terrorists in Swat, his body exhumed two days later, the corpse was publicly beheaded and hung from an elctricity pylon for several hours! Please stop saying that this is not islam, or what muslims do. Do humans act like this? Do animals do this to other animals?
We would be lucky if we could ask the world to extend the UN SC’s mandate to ISAF to FATA, in co-operation with us. Instead of the US President and Congress mandating US forces to come in, with or without our co-operation, whether we like it or not. We’ve been there for 6 or 7 years now. What has been our achievement? Are things better or worse? Please don’t tell me that you can or should negotiate with or apease those who would behead a dead man. I am talking of the military action alone: Who is answerable for its failure, now continuing for far too long?
Tolerating/appeasing these people (Sufi Muhammad) back in 1989, 1994, 1997 and 2001 was equally wrong. Sadly, we’ve no right to question Major Amir – ISI’s guy in Swat in 1989 (this guy has left a trail of destruction in his wake, wherever he was posted). Why is there no military action against the Taliban leadership/commanders living in Quetta? To see the Taliban and their money go to Quetta, you will see them everywhere. Ask a rickshaw/taxi to take you to certain areas of pashtoonabad, kharotabad even saddar. Ask how people are being muscled out of their properties having to give it up or practically give it up to Taliban commanders. If we think that we can help ‘good’ taliban win in Afghanistan while we defeat ‘bad’ taliban in Pakistan, we’ve got it very wrong. It is not even working as a tactic, and it certainly is totally unpragmatic as a strategy. The more ‘good’ Taliban win in Afghanistan, the bolder ‘bad’ taliban become and more recruits they get for their more global agenda which does not give a damn about the ISI agenda.
I am afraid things are going to get a lot worse before they start getting better. Taliban exist due to the local support of their ideology and practice, and will continue to exist as long as that native support base remains. Unfortunately that is not in any danger atleast in the immediate future. On the other hand, Pakistan’s general populace will, as always, remain oblivious to what is apparent to any reasonable person, politicians will keep chanting “sub acha hay”, and the security forces will remain inept and restrained in doing what is necessary. My impression is that a majority of Pakistani public is still weeping for the dead of lal masjid and has no stomach for kind of efforts that are needed to put down insurgencies. I bet there are more “aamn mohaidas” in the near future…..
No, Iqbal, in this case that is not so. They are ruling by fear, not by public support. That is why they do the public hangings. That is why they put corpses on trees. That is why they cut off people’s ears and noses. They want to make ‘examples’ and make everyone very very afraid. I fear that they may be succeeding.
Yes, they are those who mourn the Lal Masjid people. But that does not mean that they are all Taliban supporters. The Lal Masjid support was largely symbolic and also anti-Musharraf, but it is very different from the Taliban rule of fear. teh rule fo fear is even more dangerous.
I checked out the news on Sri Ram Sena as pointed out by Bobobashi and it makes interesting reading in light of this current discussion.
It seems the orthodox hindus in India have stolen the textbooks from the Taliban (or the other way around).
Dark humor apart; I think that bit of news story should be a must read for any Pakistani Muslim who may be sympathetic to the cause espoused by the illiterate Taliban (The irony is killing since as I understand it, ‘Taliban’ means students).
The similarities between these two orthodox groups show that their respective campaigns have nothing at all to do with religion of any kind and everything to do with domination through fear.
The current battle going on in SWAT should not only be left to the security forces alone. It is a battle for all the people in Pakistan and abroad to join. It is the battle of all those who love:
1. Pakistan
2. Civilization and order
3. Equality of sexes and human beings
4. Justice and compassion
I believe these principles are espoused by most people who celebrate and cherish the spirit of true Islam.
If it is true, they should stand up now and start a strong vocal campaign to highlight to the World as to what is going and to oppose it by all means.
Tanveer,
I am afraid you missed the points made in my post. The support for Taliban comes both directly (volunteers, donations, refuge, etc. mostly from the local population) and indirectly (charity, “qurbani ki khaleen”, indifference etc.) from the broader Pakistani population. You are right that they are using fear and intimidation to consolidate their rule but to do so they have the financial, logistic, and social support structure already in place. Any organized warfare, which is what Taliban have been waging for several years against Pak army, has an enormous financial and social cost and it doesn’t happen without an extensive support base. Fear and intimidation is then just a tool to root out any resistance in their operating areas; it doesn’t create or affects their base.
Really doing something about this is will be neither easy nor pretty. It will require an extensive overhaul of our society to eliminate the support base for Talibans. Cutting their finances by restricting and regulating the zakat/fitr/chanda industry would be a no-brainer start, but no one can do this without committing a political suicide in Pak. Similarly, security operations can not be successful as long as the public remains as spineless as evident from the Lal masjid episode. It is essentially a war between a zealous and ruthless lot and a nation which prefers denial and apathy as a solution. No need to guess which side will continue winning….
Iqbal, actually, I did get the point, but I think the point is not valid at all. The Taliban support does NOT come from donations or refuge or qurbani ki khaleen at all. there is no evidence of that whatsoever. However, I do agree that indifference of the rest of the society is a major major form of support (through silence). Which is why it is great that ATP is highlighting this.
There are other groups that get the qurbani ki khaleen type support, which is significant. But the Taliban do not. They also do not get volunteers in the classical sense. It is a major mistake to confuse the two. THe first are religious groups generally and the Taliban are a gangster group. They get their strength from fear. If you read Mafia stories you will find that many were very religious, but that does not mean they represented religion. Same with Taliban.
The danger in mixing up these two groups (religious groups and Taliban thugs) is that you will only insult and alienate the religious groups and anger them maybe enough that they DO start sympathizing with the Taliban. Right now, they do not. So lets eep it that way and please NOT mistake Taliban as a religious group. They are NOT.
Tanveer sahib I hope you dont really mean that “dont mistake Taliban as a religious group” statement. Otherwise you must be overlooking their stated purpose (the establishment of sharia), ideology (Salafism), definition (students of religion), composition (madrassa alumni), and leadership (Sufi Mohd., Maulana Fazl, etc.).
Overcoming denial is generally the first step in addressing a problem.
Irrespective of whether one agrees that the Taliban represent true Islam or not, every one agrees that they represent the worst of humans. People doubt whether they are religiously motivated, but for the sake of argument, even if we assume that they aren’t religiously motivated, it still shows how a group of people can hijack religion and use it to justify their horrendous acts.
Historically, many interpretation of religions exist side by side, with fervent and vocal supporters on each side. This is not just an Islamic phenomena; look at the different sects in Christianity as an example. Instead of basing our society and law on such shaky and divisive foundations, it is much more prudent to base it on our common values of humanity, compassion and love. Religion might guide one’s moral and ethical inclinations on certain issues, but it should not be made the law because there is no one religion that every one agrees on, and because pain and suffering have been justified in the name of religion time and again.
I do hope that we emerge through the present crisis with a stronger case for a secular Pakistan.
@Ehsan,
I respect your feelings about Islam. We can go on and on about whether Islam is the perfect religion. History tells us that people have never completely agreed on the ‘one true religion’, even within Islam, and thus religion does not provide a strong and long lasting foundation for a progressive and just society.
Also, please stop making claims about whether I am happy when Pakistanis and Muslims die. I am not. No half-sane and decent human can be.
Our culpability in this as a society goes beyond mere silence or indifference. The reference to Lal Masjid is correct. We were so busy feeling sorry for the innocent kids who died there (and they deserved every sympathy), and the bungling of the operation (waiting 6 months too long being the worst part of it), that we forgot, it seems completely, that we tolerate guns in a mosque (and have been doing so for far too long)! Guns, grenades and RPG’s! Just as long as the guy is holding the Quran in the other hand!
Recently, during the muharram holiday, there were 5 small blasts outside two Lahore theatres. Less than 24 hours later, there was a talk show on PTV where they had 4 theatre guys sitting across a provincial minister and police official. The anchor was trying to demand of the theatre guys to prove that they were not doing anything ‘vulgar’, and kept accusing them of ‘vulgar’ mujras. The thespians and the minister kept trying to say that there was nothing vulgar happening. The police official was (unusually) professional and talked only of security issues and aspects. But the rest were effectively saying that a mujra (I don’t care how vulgar) is MORE vulgar than people being bown up! Implying that if it was true that the mujras were really vulgar than the bomb blasts were justified!!
We don’t care about the thousands of women (many along with their children) languishing in our jails because they can’t produce 4 witnesses yet were brave enough to report being raped!! Yet we see women’s faces blackened on billboards. We have ‘ulema’ – some in high in the religious heirarchy, even MNA’s – who say that God did not differentiate between zina-bil-jabar and zina-bil-raza! We had one of them (a senior religous official) saying on TV that both the Lal Masjid militants and the security forces guys who died were ‘shaheed’! We don’t care about hundreds of Qadianis, non-muslims and even non-qadiani muslims languishing in jails because they were accused of blasphemy (in the case of Qadianis often because they said Bismillah – or wrote it on an invitation card), waiting for the higher courts to set them free (for no lower court would dare do so for the danger to the judges’ own life)! The ex-speaker of the Punjab Assembly – a quasi-judge and not just a legislator – boasted from the speaker’s chair about taking the law in to his own hands were he to meet Salman Rushdie, and many lunatics cheered him on rather than censuring him!
This is madness, which is and can only be followed by destruction. And to compund the madness, Gen Shahid Hamid says saving punjab is ‘a simple matter of plugging four road bridges’.. as if NWFP is not Pakistan!!
Iqbal Sahib, actually that is exactly what I mean.
I care less about their stated purpose and more about their actual actions. Indeed, in this case their state their purpose in the terminology that they do precisely because they wish to coopt religion and have people fall into the trap of “believing” their statement. Just stating a purpose does not make it so. People and groups often state purposes that are counter to their actions.
The problem here is NOT denial, it is blind acceptance. Why should I accept their “stated purpose” when all their actions suggest that it is not so. Why are they so “believable” suddenly?
Just like Captain Crunch was really not a ‘Captain’ the Taliban are not really a religious group. Although they just love it when we accept them as such… indeed, that is their exact purpose!
I stumbled on the following story at BBC. The sight of what these people are capable of made me sick.
http://tinyurl.com/ddfw3c
I fail to understand this ideology that turns humans into such barbarians. These folks have taken Afghanistan to prehistoric times. They want to do the same with Pakistan. There is only one way to deal with these people – with absolute and overwhelming force. They need to be eliminated; no questions asked.
@ Ehsan and DL
I agree with DL that while a persons’ faith has to be respected, it is important to understand that faith is a very personal issue and any attempt at trying to impose one set of interpretation on the entire population either by force or by coercion is counterproductive and harmful to the society.
All religions, without exception, honor the universal human values of Empathy and Justice. Thus one does not need a particular religion\sect\or a specific interpretation of the God’s word to be ethical and moral.
Therefore when leaving home, matters of faith are best left behind, out of the public place.
All of us; however need to dedicate ourselves to the basic human values such as right to life and liberty.
I can completely identify with Bloody Civilian’s anguish when he says that the real obscenities and vulgarities lie not in wearing a certain garment but in taking a human life based on it.
In fact the real obscenity is not even in a cowardly taking of human life but in arguing that it may be acceptable because the victims may have invited it.
Murder is murder, no matter how one rationalizes or justifies it.
Those wishing to invite ISAF to FATA are no friends of Pakistan. What great achievements does ISAF have in Afghanistan by the way ?!
This is our problem, and its upto Pakistanis to solve. Turning this into an anti-Islam and anti-ISI crusade is a futile endeavor. The armed forces need the moral support of their population in combating these criminals. Never again should Pakistanis accuse their armed forces of “killing their own people for dollars”.
Eradicate these Mullahs OR Pakistan will be eradicated!!!!
It is as simple as that!!!
WE have No time to debate these issues. Forget Israel Aggression. How come no one in Pakistan is protesting and out in the streets ??????????
I have no right to suggest a solution for poor Pakistanis because I don’t live there. My deepest sympathies are with all the citizens. I can’t even imagine what non-Muslims must be going through thinking that even moderate Muslims are not safe under Talibanization, what chance do we stand. I sincerely hope that Pakistani politicians start thinking beyond saving their own seat for current term and in future elections by supporting local Warlords, Waderas, Chaudheris and Mullahs.
what I meant to say was ….. by “not” supporting ……….
Post has been updated with latest news (for January 27, 2009).
Pakistan is a lost cause, it
I support the military as strongly in its war against the terrorists as I oppose its dictatorial history and tendencies. A rather elementary lesson in civics (which sadly is no longer taught in our schools), ultimately relevant to the kind of ‘I am right, you’re dead’ mentality we see in Swat and eslsewhere: ‘at the root of liberty is a people’s right to freely choose their own leaders’. if these leaders are corrupt, and all other civilian institutions (parliament, judiciary, police) are co-opted by them, then it is, ultimately, up to the people again to stand up to them. in the streets. up and down the country. which law or constitution says the army has any such right or role!
the travesty of saying the army has to protect our ‘ideological’ borders is tantamount to putting the military above the law and the constitution. in a civilised country, nothing and no one is above the law. not even ideology. you make your laws democratically based on whatever ideology you choose as a democratic majority. but once made, it is only and only the laws that are supreme. in case of anyone using force (or the threat thereof) to subvert the law, they are answerable to the people to whom belongs ultimate supremacy and sovereignty.
to reach this state of civilisation is a long process and journey, and derailed by the military whenever it feels like it, is a sure way of going backwards not forward. the journey has to be allowed, with it ups and down, times of hope and times of despair, and the nation (i.e. the people) gets out of it as much as it puts in in terms of effort, tolerance, patience and sacrifice.
there may, arguably, be a very limited and strictly regulated role for the military in case of a credible and conspicuous civil war (thousands dying). it usually takes the form of martial law under the overall control of the civilian govt in a limited area of the country (not unsimilar to Swat/FATA where, like I have said, I am fully behind our security forces). even if we imagine a bigger civil war and undeniably needful removal of the whole civilian govt, the military aberration has to be limited in time. phony referendums, presidents in uniform, years and years in intransigent rule, is a crime of the worst kind against the law and the nation.
A regional solution is necessary to tackle the problem of Al Qaeda/Taliban.
Therefore, Pakistan should take the following steps:
1) Call a meeting, like a jirga, between the religious leaders of the Sunni and Shia communites in the country. The process should be then widened to include Ulema from Iran and Afghanistan. Its ultimate goal would be to achieve a better understanding and harmony between these two groups in Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Any agreements should be formalized and ongoing with ultimate goal of achieving an Islamic version of the 17th century agreement between Protestants and Catholics within Christian Europe known as the Treaty of Westphalia.
2) Begin negotiations with Iran on cooperation between Pakistan and Iranian security forces to begin cooperating intimately on vanquishing the Al Qaeda/Taliban. If some Pakistani forces are a bit squeemish to take on the Taliban, Iranian forces should be commissioned to take them on.
3) Invite the Security forces of Afghanistan to come and cooperate with the Pakistani/Iranian forces to take on Al Qaeda/Taliban within Pakistan. When that coordination is smoothed out, propose to Afghanistan that joint Iranian-Pakistani-Afghani forces be sent to Afghanistan to take on Al Qaeda/Taliban there.
Result: A regional solution to the problem of terrorism.
Outlook for implimentation: Faith and Wisdom can conquer all.
The continued treason of the Taliban really calls for strong action against them. The military action has to become decisive but the problem is that support that they still get from some small parts of society. This s largely becase they have been able to convince that (a) they are somehow for Islam and (b) that this is somehow a reaction to the US drone attacks. Both points are wrong but these barbarians are making hay of this argument. First we will have to defeat this argument.
I dont know you mr Adil.
The image you have pasted as the title image; ‘hurts’.
It gives only two meanings Ignorance OR tacit understanding as kashmir not being our rightfull part nor even a disputed territory.
I dont think ignorance can be a justification at this level.
I belive you were a pakistani. I want to request plz respect the thoughts of pakistanis, who are your major audience.
Faruq, what really ‘hurts’ is your comment. Amazing that you do not get ‘hurt’ to see these Mullahs and Taliban killing Pakistanis. You do not get ‘hurt’ to see the drones. That is what that map is really about. What type of a “Pakistani” are you that you do not cry at the murder of Pakistanis by the Taliban? Or are you a Pakistani at all?
The map, which is probably from a news service or BBC, shows Kashmir as disputer territory (dotted lines) which is what the stance of govt of Pakistan. But teh real story in teh map is these Taliban killing Muslims and killing Pakistanis. I guess that does not “HURT” you at all!
@PAKISTANI MUSLIM,
Don’t try to twist Faruq’s comment. He said nothing regarding Taliban or muslim or Islam or missiles.
What he said is right and Pakistaniat and Mr. Adil Najam should be ashamed of themselves. They could have doctored the map themselves to show Indian illegally held Kashmir as part of Pakistan.
They are targeting schools, the one thing that is the biggest threat to their ignorance.
Also, see how they spread fear by hanging people in public. It is not that people are with them, it is just that people become very very afraid of these people.
Yes, I agree, these are the real enemies of Pakistan and of Islam and it is our duty to stamp them out.
This constant barrage of depressing news leave one stunned.
One thing is for sure. Pakistan has no greater enemy today than these Taliban!
Post has been updated with latest news (for January 28, 2009).
Are the Taliban radicals limited to the frontier region? Or do we have a contagion that has spread far beyond FATA and NWFP? Since late 1970s when General Zia-ul-Haq seized power and began imposing his version of the strict Shariah law, first as a Martial Law Administrator and later as self-appointed president, there has been a distinct shift in how many Pakistanis view themselves. The general, and the identity shift he inspired, received massive backing by the US government and the CIA in the form of money, weapons and total political support in the joint US-Pakistani efforts to defeat the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. After the withdrawal of the Soviet forces from Afghanistan, Pakistan’s identity shift has continued. Is Pakistan becoming more like Wahabi Saudi Arabia and moving away from its South Asian cultural roots that developed under the Sufi saints, Mughal emperors and British colonial influences? In the following piece, Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy, a professor at Islamabad’s Quaid-e-Azam University, argues that “a stern, unyielding version of Islam is replacing the kinder, gentler Islam of the Sufis in Pakistan”.
To read more, please visit:
http://www.riazhaq.com/2009/01/is-pakistan-becoming-saudi-arabia.html
Ok. I know this post should not be about Kashmir. But I have to say that none of the UN Security Council resolutions nor any government of Pakistan has ever claimed Kashmir or any part thereof as part of Pakistan. We do not claim that for even Azad Kashmir, which, legally at least, is a country independent of Pakistan (even if not recognised by the world as such) until a final settlement of Kashmir is in place. The map shows the whole of Kashmir as a disputed territory (see the dashed line demarcating Kashmir). Even the Simla Agreement recognised the disputed status. The UN believes, with India agreeing at the time, that there ought to be a right for the people of Kashmir to choose their future through a plebiscite. Somehow, India decided to move away from its solemn promise to the UN (i.e the world) to claiming Kashmir as an ‘integral part of India’. Forgetting that whatever a defeated Pakistan may have agreed to at Simla, neither the Kashmiris nor the UN have given up their right and its support. Lets leave the question to India’s own conscience to answer, while we have an existential emergency to attend to in the form of the murderous Taliban, and a rest of Pakistan which has been slipping down the slipperry slopes of religiosity and bigotry for far too long now (creating the Quislings, calls for appeasement and the pathetically confused moral equivocation).
when we stop believing in Allah SWT, this happens. We want to to keep our country in dark ages. We have forgotten that we are all obliged to acquire knowledge, be it man or a woman. Allah did not discriminate then why humans do? These are JUHLA among us who are dominating. We have to stop them, stand united and spread ILM.
Q: How did PPP win the election and come into power?
A: They won becuase they had a deal with Washington that they would let them use Pakistan’s land for whatever purpose they want.
Q: Who gave PPP the power to make such decision which goes against the sovereignity of the land?
A: The idiot people who keep electing the crooks.
Bottomline:
Sorry, but we don’t deserve any better.
Khuda ne aaj tak uss qaum ki halat nahi badli
Na ho jiss to khayal apni halat ke badalne ka
I agree, I also blame the people of Pakistan more than anybody else… They are all like: Shaikh apni apni dekh
Thank you Razia and Rizwan for acknowledging that YOU are the problem
@Bloody Civilian
I do not think you should dignify these comments with a response. People like Ali Dada are just trying to distract attention from the real issue in the post – that the Taliban criminals are murdering Pakistanis and Muslims. And they try to raise things to distract attention. Note, how they do not add even one word against the Taliban killings Muslims and Pakistanis.
Plus, the map shows Kashmir in dotted line as disputed territory. Which is exactly how government Pakistan maps show it. This is how the map is supposed to be shown by Pakistan and international convention. The suggestion that map should be “doctored” to reflect something that is not true situation on ground and is against official Pakistan policy only shows the dellusional mind of some people who would want others to cheat (‘doctoring maps’) and lie.
But I am falling into same trap. I do NOT want to talk about this because the real issue is the Taliban and their treason and crime. Let us make sure that we do not loose attention from that, because those are the biggest enemies of Muslims and Pakistanis in the world today.
@DL
You speak the truth and it hurts.
I totally disagree with what Taliban are doing. But unless the root cause is fixed, they or someone else will exploit the situation.
It’s the economy, stupid.
Swat, FATA and Frontier have virtually zero economic prospects, no industry and 90% unemployment.
If the military machines would funnel a thousandth of their expenditure on these poor people, Taliban Leaders will have no soldiers to carry out these attacks.
Hasan
‘With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.’
– Steven Weinberg, quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999
Raza-Ul-Hasan : Can we please stop with the whole, “it’s the economy stupid” canard.
If poverty causes people to blow themselves up, then the Sub-Saharan Africa would be sans any human beings by now. Or, India would have so much indigenous terrorism, that the ISI would have to close shop.
If we are going to talk about the root causes, at least let’s be honest. Yes, poverty does play a part, but poverty by itself is not the cause.
The elephant in the room is fundamentalist religion. And, until we call it what it is, I am afraid, the situation will only get worse.
p.s. please ask yourself, what poverty compels young saudi men to take to terrorism?
@Nusrat
Root causes are poverty, despair and injustice. Fundamentalist religious beliefs are more like catalysts than root causes. Religion, in this case, has become an outlet for frustration. That’s just my opinion.
P.S. sub-saharan Africa isn’t exactly a peaceful place. Virtually every country in its belt is plagued by violence on a regular basis.
This post has been updated to include today’s news story about ANP lead Lala Afzal, who refuses to leave Swat and continues to speak out against the Taliban, despite repeated threats and murder attempts against him.
Lala Afzal’s story is the only heartwarming piece of news to have come out of Swat in a long while. His stance is an inspiration to the rest of us to stand up against these dark forces of the Taliban in whatever way we can.
There is no question that the jahil are exploiting beliefs and faith to create a breakdown in the civil society.
This jahalat has been further compounded by the so called
Faraz – There is only one thing that unites the 19 Young Arab men who flew planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and the half dozen or so young British men of Pakistani origin who carried out the London attacks, the ten or so young men who carried out the Mumbai operation, and we both know it’s not poverty.
{Correction: Every single reckless behavior can be traced back to lack of justice and equity.}
This path of establishing equity and justice is hard and it takes time, but people sense the goodness in the air immediately. More people are willing to be patient with President Obama because they believe he will do good for them and that it will take time. Same principle applies here. And more importantly, it is the right thing to do.
People can sustain poverty, but not injustice and inequity.
Perhaps all good folks who do not consider themselves jahil should post better solutions to uplift the people and solve the problems of injustice and inequity. Pakistan has many many good folks who have very good ideas but they remain silent because they cannot afford to be misunderstood. Because they do not want to get involved with are you with us or against us scenarios. Love of your own people does not mean you are an automatic enemy.
Politically correct statements that create good feelings will not solve the problems. There is work to be done, in Pakistan, by Pakistanis and for Pakistanis.
No handouts, no charity, but peace and security through justice and equity.
Poverty could sometimes be a contributory factor to the rise of terrorism, but it is not a root cause. None of the hijackers in the 911 attacks were poor. Omar Sheikh (involved in a number of incidents including the killing of Daniel Pearl) was an LSE grad. There has been no reported incident of a Cambodian or a Nepali or somebody from Burkina Faso blowing himself and others up, despite the obvious poverty of these countries. There are millions of desperately poor people around the world and they mean and cause no harm to anybody else.
What motivates people to indiscriminately kill others and themselves is brainwashing, sometimes fear and sometimes both. And in rare instances, because there is so much desperation that life does not seem worth living. The Khmer Rouge managed to motivate people to kill mainly through fear and some brainwashing. Brainwashing by religious fundamentalists, coupled sometimes with fear of the afterlife has been the most frequent motivator of indiscriminate killings in history. The instances of indiscriminate killings due to desperation and an unwillingness to live life any further have been few and far between (the school shootings in the US come to mind) but they are typically accompanied by psychological conditions. Rarely has a terrorist suicide bomber been motivated by desperation.
Thus, it is utter intellectual laziness to think that poverty causes people to become terrorists. It may contribute in some rare instances, but it is rarely the main cause. More often than not, terrorists have come from middle-class or even privileged backgrounds. Or even if they come from poor backgrounds, poverty itself has not been the main motivator.
Afzal Lala has taken it upon himself to become Pakistan’s conscience. If we leave him to be killed by the Taliban, our conscience is dead, and we’ll be next… not that it would make any difference anymore. Will we go and stand by him and respond to his humble and courageous challenge to our humanity, Pakistaniat and conscience? Shouldn’t there by thousands of Pakistanis, especially younger Pakistanis, going right up to the edge of Swat and standing and camping right behind our forces in solidarity with the octogeneraian Afzal Lala? Isn’t that the kind of unequivocal support that our forces need to dispel any lack of morale or will? Can’t we thus show our resolve to the beastial, murderous terrorists?
Can we not come together and show solidarity through our action, rather than just words, and show solidarity with our fellow Pakistanis and fellow humans in Swat the way Afzal Lala is? If they are his people are they not also ours? Is he not one of us? Afzal Lala’s plight is the litmus test for the truth of Pakistan. Our cross-roads.
Which road will we choose? Will we pass our fail this test? What will be the result of failure? Remember, a great lady Mukhtaran Mai, had also challenged the nation’s conscience. Remember what Musharraf had insinuated about her? How we tried to and have forgotten her. The 100+ kids killed by one Javed Iqbal have also been forgotten rather than commemorated – like a nation with a heart and a conscience would have done. How have we treated our only Nobel laureate? I shall not go further back (assuming that 17 December 1971 was a new birth, no doubt excruciatingly traumatic.)
Have we even tried to change? Have we changed any of even the few failures of conscience mentioend above? Have we at least regretted any of it? Afzal Lala has thrown us yet another life line. Is this going to be the last one? Are we going to grab it?
Nusrat: In the room, Fundamentalism is a mouse; lack of good governance is a deer and POVERTY is an elephant.
Africa is an apple. North West is an orange. They can
Thank yo for your daily updates on this. Frankly, they are painful to read, but some needs to keep watch and keep reminding all of us that we can neither ignore nor get used to this.
Yes, Pakistan is at a war against extremism. The extremism’s most recognizable face is in parts of the Frontier province. But this extremism also shows up in other ways perhaps even more dangerous for Pakistan: The second largest political party in Pakistan (PMLN) publicly calls the dead of Lal Masjid as ‘martyrs’. The extremism also shows up in some of the highest ranking officials (General Baig and General Hamid Gul) who are quite willing to engage in a nuclear holocaust in the Subcontinent as a stated policy.
Army cannot win something in Swat which the right-wing Pakistani intelligentsia constantly promotes in Islamabad, Lahore, and Karachi. The secular/leftwing parties like ANP, PPP, and MQM, despite their warts, are clear in confronting the menace and yet they are constantly being termed ‘traitors’ and ‘agents’ of foreign powers.
With this schizophrenic state of the ‘educated’ class of Pakistan it becomes easier for Swat and FATA to burn: Mullah Fazlullah has many friends in the drawing rooms of Pakistan’s cities, its parliament, its army, its media, its bloggers then even he may know of.
@meengla
Precisely put, thank you. The battle for Pakistan, exactly like the battle for India, will be won not merely in the areas where it is seen to be joined, but in the drawing rooms and power centres. Our enemies are not merely the obvious ones, armed to the teeth and ready to maim and murder to order, but also include our smooth and urbane acquaintances, who spread their poison in measured, cultured tones, and in terms of reasonableness, with frequent references to scripture and to a version of history that is peculiarly their’s. Recognise them? They are the shields of the extremists, their apologists, in Franco’s cliche which has never lost its relevance, their ‘fifth column’, the column that is already inside Madrid. They need to be fought and defeated just as much as the shrill, hysterical, mindless murderers.
Unfortunately, neither the Pakistani Army nor its para-military forces, nor the Indian security services can combat these gentry; we need to understand that it is we, ourselves, that are the soldiers, and it is we who have to fight, however unpleasant the prospect may seem, and however slippery and difficult to pin down the opposing host.
And, like the soldiers already in uniform, we have no choice but to fight.
@bonobashi and meengla,
You two raise a very important point. There is a dire need to intellectually and politically engage with the extreme right wing elements of the Pakistani society, which has grown a lot in the last decade in my observation.
I would have liked to say that educating more people is the answer. While education is definitely a required condition, I don’t suspect that its a sufficient condition. You can have a PhD who still plots devilish schemes against the infidels and has such a distorted world view that it can scare the living lights out of any sane person.
To me, the first step is to strive for a secular Pakistan. It is to make people realize that they have to be respectful and tolerant of all human beings. It is to make people realize and believe in a democratic process and to let them feel that they have the capacity and duty to construct a livable, just and progressive society for all its inhabitants. Religion appears to be a very alluring solution in these troubled times of despair and poverty, but we must wake up to the fact that religion, more often times than not, has been used to oppress, exploit and divide the society.
We have this collective notion that Islam is the only thing that keeps Pakistan together. We need to move beyond that. We need to find common values and ideals of freedom and equality that unite and bind us together, not only as Pakistanis, but as inhabitants of an increasingly small world.
I wish the rest of Pakistan would show as much **Brass** as Afzal Lala has done….
his lonely courage and clarity against the fanatical barbarians at his door..literally….are a testament to true Pakhtoon courage…
It’s a shame that much of our populace shares neither his courage, faith nor clarity…makes me wonder why The Almighty would help a people who apparently cant be bothered to save themselves…..
May Allah SWT keep this Lion safe…
@ D_A_N. I can sense despair and foreboding in your post.
I would like to make some comments before responding to you.
Some people have commented in earlier posts that the cause of violence in SWAT is poverty, desperation, injustice and similar factors. These people are only partly right.
While above factors are conditions for creating the foot soldiers for such mayhem, these brainwashed young men are but cannon fodder for their handlers who hide in side the civil society.
These handlers have hijacked a perfectly decent religion to brainwash people. They want to achieve goals that they can not otherwise achieve using legitimate means using fear and terror.
Once one person takes a stand publicly and refuses to be cowed down by fear, the terrorists and their handlers can not win.
Afzal Lala is that one person. He may be the lion (as D_A_N calls him) who gave the roar but he gives voice to all the D_A_Ns, the Bloody Civilians, the DLs, the Bonobashis, the Meenglas and millions of other supporters of this site and of Pakistan.
Unless the terrorists can go out to all the corners of the World, and kill all those who believe in:
Freedom of speech,
Womens
It’s religious identity that might keep a country together, not belief or practice (which almost always divides and the more it is allowed a public platform the more it destroys.) Unsurprisingly, even a shared religious identity failed to hold together what the evil of authoritarianism had rent asunder by 16 December 1971. A truly pluralistic system is where all views are accomodated and cosidered and, therefore, all prejudices and injustices may be addresed.
To those who say the root cause is Islam: people in FATA and the NWFP were not buddhists before 2002/3 or even 1979. Those who say it is poverty and injustice: the people were not any less poor before before 2002/3 and 1979, nor had any better access to anything remotely resembling justice.
They did have a tribal system in FATA (for all its ills), which was ravaged by Zia-ul-Haque using the whole province as a laboratory to manufacture and shelter mujahideen, and where alien refugees were given an absolutely free run with no documentation nor containment.
The monster that Zia created could have been finished off by Musharraf, but he decided to use them as a bogeyman instead, trying to scare the West in to supporting him. While Bush losing interest in Afghanistan (and the half-hearted attempt there) and going off to Iraq was a boon to the monster, who became hydra-headed with Al-Qaeda, Chechens, Uzbeks etc. joining in. Pak army started losing control since it had to put up a pretence of fighting the monster it had long thought an ‘asset’, and do it damage for optics. This meant that the monster no longer felt bound by the ISI agenda but aspired to something more akin to Al-Qaeda’s. The army’s dangerous game of keeping the monster on a controlled dose of steroids backfired badly when the monster, with new ambitions of its own, found access to the medicine cabinet and the steroids and started growing exponentially, in both size and ambition, beyond anything the army had imagined or prepared for.
Being so abnormal and unnatural, the monster cannot survive forever. Growing so rapidly on the most viciously potent steroids, it will explode sooner rather than later. The questions is: how many will it take down with it? 20,000? 200,000? or more?
It seems that the government is at least beginning to wake to the situation and the new statements from them show some resolve. I hope itis for real and not just statements
@Bloody civ
When Musharraf sent the army to conduct limited ops on FATA in 2004, everybody in Pakistan condemned him and the army. This continued for years, with every political party, civil society and media group saying “war on terror” was somebody else’e war, and all these operations were unnecessary and all problems with militants should be solved by “negotiations”.
So alongwith with blaming the army, blame yourself as well for ignoring the problem.
@ Gorki…
It was not despair…but disgust……
Here is a link to a frightening article from Pervez Hoodbhoy. You may not agree with everything he wrote but it is very much relevant to the discussion. Sorry, if you have already read it.
http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsJan2009/cover2jan2009.htm
I have already repeatedly listed examples of our culpability in this as a society and how it goes beyond or silence or indiffernce to the moral equivocation about religiosity and extremism. Just as much as I have blamed Zia for being responsible for making it many times worse than it ever was before, and Musharraf of running with both the hare and the hounds (why is Quetta full of ‘good’ Taliban, unmolested? Why is it only now that the army has indented for FM transmitter detectors, after 16 years of the mullah radio broadcasting (at least 8 of those were Mushrraf years)? It was not the people who made the doomed treaty with Nek Muhammad (however despicable the MMA, they had nothing to do with it). Nor wait 6 months before acting on Lal Majid (again, this was Islamabad and always the dictator’s own call). He didn’t feel he needed to bother asking the people their view on 12 Oct ’99 nor on 03 Nov 2007. So why did Musharraf and the army become so sensitive, only and exclusively, to the people’s moral equivocation about the Taliban?
@Bloody civ
The army is damned if they do, damned if they don’t in your book aren’t they ?
It is the people of Pakistan who condemned the army operations in tribal areas and pushed for “negotiations and peaceful means”. It was these same people who accused Musharraf of “massacre” at Lal Masjid, when he exhausted all-peaceful means during six months and finally launched an action against those heavily armed and crazy bearded gangsters.
It is also the people of Pakistan who voted against Musharraf because the politicians accused him of using “force to solve terrorism problems”. Finally it is the people of Pakistan who join these terrorist brigades by the thousands.
It would be a lot better if the people of Pakistan can simply support their army, police and intelligence services in their quest to eliminate terrorism from this soil. But that might be asking too much from Pakistanis.
…The beards are now after the black coats….
http://thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=20075
an infidel justice system they say…. Hmm.. I wonder why the Mullah thinks that ‘Justice’ in any form is suddenly NOT dear to Allah SWT….
another example of how the Mullah makes up our religion as He goes along and continues to ‘outsource’ many of The Almigty’s work onto himself…
The list of events in the post has been updated to include more recent news.
“The army is damned if they do, damned if they don
@Bloody civ
I see you dodged supporting the army against militants again. The high and mighty principles of Constitution and rule of law are easy for you to grasp, but simply supporting your soldiers in the fight against militancy is too difficult for you to accept.
It doesn’t matter to you that the army is taking orders from a civilian govt and performing its constitutional duty, and that it is common sense for Pakistanis to support their armed forces whenever they fight to protect Pakistan. Like I said “damned if you do and damned if you don’t”.
Post has been updated with the tragic news of the attack on a Shia procession in Dera Ghazi Khan which has already left 24 people dead and that number is expected to rise.
I read the latest post regarding the attack on a Shia procession that left many dead with a deep sense of sadness and some despair.
If it can not protect its people then surely Pakistan seems to be losing the most important battle a nation can fight.
I understand the military is doing a heroic job trying to battle the murderous thugs attacking this land yet all good people who love thier country need to join in this battle as well.
During the WW II in occupied Holland, the King himself protested the racist policies of the occupying Nazis.
When they ordered all jews to wear an yellow arm band identifying them as jews, the King himself wore one, saying “I am the first jew in this country.”
Today a different kind of occupiers are trying to drive a wedge between different groups of Pakistanis.
No matter what any Pakistani believes in, if these terrorists have their way, ultimately all Pakistan will be a loser. Thus all should oppose this.
I understand people held candle light vigils in Lahore to mark solidarity with the people of Mumbai after 26/11.
Such vigils are called for now and eveyday, in all parts of Pakistan to mark solidarity with the minority Shias.
Pakistan may be a Sunni majority country, but its founders hoped for a country for all its peoples, including minorities. Not standing up for the minorities now will be letting down the very founders that Pakistanis honor each independance day.
understand
The sectarian aspect of this targeting is very dangerous. Shows how the enemies of Pakistan are bent on destroying the fabric of society in every dimension.
This is a really sad news and could grow into something bigger and horrible. I hope it does not.
As is evident from many posts here, people fully support the security forces fighting against the terrorists, but refuse to forsake analysis or forget history, no matter how inconvenient or unpalatable that might be to some. This ensures proper analyis of the problem and any hope at preventing a recurrence.
These people, with both their eyes and ears fully open, need no certificate for their patriotism from those who claim to have a monopoly over it. Or from any one else, for that matter.
Aspiring for rule of law is the first and minimum difference between humans merely beginning a journey towards some kind of civilisation and a group of animals living under the law of the jungle. It
The men and women in uniform are the only ones who are actually facing this evil, fighting it and even losing their lives in the process.
However some people are too drunk with their principles of “law and democracy” which they read in a book somewhere, and have to be pushed in order to express support for their police, soldiers and officers who are combating evil for the sake of Pakistan.
The rest of Pakistanis, whether they be from civil society, media, politicians or highly educated folk blogging on Internet, are non-participants in this struggle.
@Amir Ali
“The men and women in uniform are the only ones who are actually facing this evil, fighting it and even losing their lives in the process.
However some people are too drunk with their principles of
@Aamir Ali
I am sorry, but that is an unfair and is a distortion of the facts.
The military are not the only ones facing this evil, every civilian who stands up to fanatics and pays a price is equally a soldier in the war. Civilians pay a price in varying degrees of severity, some by restriction in their freedom of speech, some by restrictions in their movements, the way they dress, the way they wear their facial hair, the length of their pajamas, their choice of music, even the fact that they listen to music, art, literature, statuary – what is left out?
Do you find it difficult to understand that a life lived under these restrictions is not a life worth leading in the first place?
While I support the efforts of a committed and nationally minded military corps to clean up the mess in their country, it is difficult not to point out that they were partly responsible for it in the first place. To create a mess and then claim credit for cleaning it up is a bit too much, don’t you think?
My apologies for being long-winded; not being a Spartan, I tend to use words more often than action.
What these Taliban are doing brings tears to the eyes of all Pakistanis and all Muslims. They are trampling on the name of Pakistan and on the name of Islam.
@Wajahat
Dear Sir,
If you think your neighbours are standing by dry-eyed and stony-hearted, you have not been listening. There is one battle-line in this battle, and you are not alone. But tell us some practical way to help.
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has captured an ‘important’ French militant described as an al Qaeda leader linked to the 9/11 attacks near the Pakistan-Iran border, officials said on Wednesday.
read more:
http://www.thextranews.com/2012/06/911-conspirator-important-al-qaeda.html