<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Technology and Science in Pakistan</title>
	<atom:link href="http://pakistaniat.com/2009/10/30/technology-and-science-in-pakistan/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://pakistaniat.com/2009/10/30/technology-and-science-in-pakistan/</link>
	<description>Pakistan. Pakistani. Pakistaniat.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:04:51 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Majid</title>
		<link>http://pakistaniat.com/2009/10/30/technology-and-science-in-pakistan/comment-page-3/#comment-196246</link>
		<dc:creator>Majid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pakistaniat.com/?p=10112#comment-196246</guid>
		<description>and regarding this Indian Phenomena; well this is a problem with Pakistani researchers and teachers. If their bag comprise one book only, it must be an Indian book!
Unfortunately I could never developed the interest to read an Indian book. Rather American books proved my companions in all the good and bad. They are still my mentor.
Even there are good books from Pakistani authors which I love but certainly  NO INDIAN BOOK please and rarely any EU or UK origin book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and regarding this Indian Phenomena; well this is a problem with Pakistani researchers and teachers. If their bag comprise one book only, it must be an Indian book!<br />
Unfortunately I could never developed the interest to read an Indian book. Rather American books proved my companions in all the good and bad. They are still my mentor.<br />
Even there are good books from Pakistani authors which I love but certainly  NO INDIAN BOOK please and rarely any EU or UK origin book.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Majid</title>
		<link>http://pakistaniat.com/2009/10/30/technology-and-science-in-pakistan/comment-page-3/#comment-196245</link>
		<dc:creator>Majid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pakistaniat.com/?p=10112#comment-196245</guid>
		<description>Best piece I read from a Pakistani on Science and Technology after my graduation in Physics 5 years back.
This is an &quot;engineer biased&quot; article which I was not expecting from a &quot;technology person&quot; who has been head of a big technology organization. The differentiation which you provided btw scientists and engineers is usually provided by fresh graduates or university students. Look at the top defense companies websites of the world and see where they keep scientists and engineers. They will never get biased btw scientists and engineers. Look at Qinetic, look at Sharp labs Europe, look at dsdw and many many more. More than 50% comprise physicists and remaining 50% other engineers. GE has a job opportunity for &quot;sales manager&quot; having a degree in either &quot;sciences&quot; or &quot;engineering&quot;. Check out any international &quot;engineering&quot; organization and see there career advertisement and see how differently (if any) they treat people with science background and engineering back ground.
It would be interesting for you to know that in Finland Physicists are awarded with an engineering degree and they are called engineers. Nokia comprise a &quot;reasonable&quot; amount of physicists. 
At one place you are saying technology people are ahead and at second place you are praising mathematician and accepting your organization&#039;s lack in achieving the goal due to lack of good mathematicians. You must know that mathematicians come into the category of scientists. As a side note good thing with physicists is that they can replace mathemticians as well as engineers. But engineers can not replace mathematicians although in many cases they are able to replace physicists. You said that due to SnT our ministry is not productive which it could be in case of TnS. I think you forgot Dr. Samar Mubarkmand whose brainchild is NDC and many other organizations which employ a lot of engineers besides scientists and which has done some remarkable jobs for Pakistan. Dr. Samar is a physics graduate and then a physics PhD. Where would you like to put DR. AQ Khan? An engineer or a scientist? He is physics graduate further specialization in metallurgy. 
But your &quot;central idea&quot; of this article is correct that &quot;we are not manufacturing high tech products&quot;. Let me say &quot;we are not manufacturing any type of products except fertilizers&quot;. Our manufacturing capabilities are miserable and if we exclude china out of the picture, we would stand no where!
The only good thing  (or one of the few good things) in Pakistani Government  is that we are still giving scientists a proper place which our pvt sector is not doing. 
The problem is something else and solution is something else. Yes you are right that we need to start high tech manufacturing in Pakistan because we have all the necessary facilities for that but question is who will manufacture them? Unfortunately we have not that talent who can independently think and can put what is on paper into physical condition.
I had written an article not exactly similar to this but if it would be published you would find very interesting facts and figures. It was published in an ezine www.thegreenkaleidoscope.com but now this website is not working otherwise I must provide you the link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Best piece I read from a Pakistani on Science and Technology after my graduation in Physics 5 years back.<br />
This is an &#8220;engineer biased&#8221; article which I was not expecting from a &#8220;technology person&#8221; who has been head of a big technology organization. The differentiation which you provided btw scientists and engineers is usually provided by fresh graduates or university students. Look at the top defense companies websites of the world and see where they keep scientists and engineers. They will never get biased btw scientists and engineers. Look at Qinetic, look at Sharp labs Europe, look at dsdw and many many more. More than 50% comprise physicists and remaining 50% other engineers. GE has a job opportunity for &#8220;sales manager&#8221; having a degree in either &#8220;sciences&#8221; or &#8220;engineering&#8221;. Check out any international &#8220;engineering&#8221; organization and see there career advertisement and see how differently (if any) they treat people with science background and engineering back ground.<br />
It would be interesting for you to know that in Finland Physicists are awarded with an engineering degree and they are called engineers. Nokia comprise a &#8220;reasonable&#8221; amount of physicists.<br />
At one place you are saying technology people are ahead and at second place you are praising mathematician and accepting your organization&#8217;s lack in achieving the goal due to lack of good mathematicians. You must know that mathematicians come into the category of scientists. As a side note good thing with physicists is that they can replace mathemticians as well as engineers. But engineers can not replace mathematicians although in many cases they are able to replace physicists. You said that due to SnT our ministry is not productive which it could be in case of TnS. I think you forgot Dr. Samar Mubarkmand whose brainchild is NDC and many other organizations which employ a lot of engineers besides scientists and which has done some remarkable jobs for Pakistan. Dr. Samar is a physics graduate and then a physics PhD. Where would you like to put DR. AQ Khan? An engineer or a scientist? He is physics graduate further specialization in metallurgy.<br />
But your &#8220;central idea&#8221; of this article is correct that &#8220;we are not manufacturing high tech products&#8221;. Let me say &#8220;we are not manufacturing any type of products except fertilizers&#8221;. Our manufacturing capabilities are miserable and if we exclude china out of the picture, we would stand no where!<br />
The only good thing  (or one of the few good things) in Pakistani Government  is that we are still giving scientists a proper place which our pvt sector is not doing.<br />
The problem is something else and solution is something else. Yes you are right that we need to start high tech manufacturing in Pakistan because we have all the necessary facilities for that but question is who will manufacture them? Unfortunately we have not that talent who can independently think and can put what is on paper into physical condition.<br />
I had written an article not exactly similar to this but if it would be published you would find very interesting facts and figures. It was published in an ezine <a href="http://www.thegreenkaleidoscope.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thegreenkaleidoscope.com</a> but now this website is not working otherwise I must provide you the link.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tawhid1982</title>
		<link>http://pakistaniat.com/2009/10/30/technology-and-science-in-pakistan/comment-page-3/#comment-196006</link>
		<dc:creator>Tawhid1982</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pakistaniat.com/?p=10112#comment-196006</guid>
		<description>Assalam Alaikum,

Mr Riaz Haq, regarding your post at October 31st, 2009 2:39 pm, I must address a few important points to clear your confusion. It would be a bonus if other people are also enlightened through this effort. 

The global university ranking exercise that you mention is by default always mired in controversy and disagreements. Moreover, you would notice that the list is very western and anglophone -centric. 

Quite naturally, English speaking western countries are found at the top of such rankings because the authors of such reports and league tables are mostly familiar with English speaking universities. That is the reason why, even from nonwestern countries, we may see an odd Indian institution or two popping up in those rankings but not many from the Muslim majority countries while in reality many universities in the Muslim world are far superior to anything in India, or similar third world countries. 

To further corroborate the point that such ranking exercises by anglophone authors are biased towards anglophone universities due to their limited knowledge of the outside world and inherent cultural favouritism, let us notice that a massive research, scientific, industrial, military and economic powerhouse like Russian Federation - although it lost half its population of the Soviet Union to several independent republics - is most noted for its absence in western produced rankings.

One can easily observe that in reality, when the measures are objective, neutral and unbiased, such as during international mathematical contests or olympiads (where cultural and financial considerations affect contestants&#039; performance the least) Russian universities and students are seeing topping the charts by a huge margin against the very best Western universities or students. In reality, upon further examination, it is discovered that the top western performers are actually foreigners; thus in reality, western real performance and ability would be even lower.

One can see that Russian ranking exercises have also been undertaken to rank universities globally, but that also suffers from the same parochialism as mentioned in the British report. Though there is reason for &quot;consolation&quot;, that many Muslim majority countries&#039; universities in the erstwhile Soviet Union (like those in Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan) are rated highly agains their global peers by Russian ratings exercises. 

British or western publications that suggest Russia has as many or fewer universities in the &quot;Top 500&quot; of the world (no matter however &quot;quality&quot; is adjudged) than such minnows as Netherlands, Denmark, Zionists, Brazil or Mexico should be taken with a &quot;pinch of salt&quot; or with sketicism. 

I hope it&#039;s well known what level of scientific, military, industrial and technological prowess is possessed by a mighty country as the Russian Federation. 

The lack of Muslim majority countries in western originated rankings of global universities only shows lack of knowledge of Muslim world by those western authors (which is not hard to understand, given the general Western ignorance, hedonism, and social apathy they have developed). 

Russian Federation tried to rectify the situation by publishing their own ratings exercise which, rightly, placed many Russian universities amongst the world&#039;s best while wrongly not scouring the entire globe for assessment of university education and/or research. 

Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Malaysia, Brunei, and others should try to conduct ratings exercise for universities globally BUT by bringing notable Muslim world universities&#039; efforts to the fore.

Massalama</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assalam Alaikum,</p>
<p>Mr Riaz Haq, regarding your post at October 31st, 2009 2:39 pm, I must address a few important points to clear your confusion. It would be a bonus if other people are also enlightened through this effort. </p>
<p>The global university ranking exercise that you mention is by default always mired in controversy and disagreements. Moreover, you would notice that the list is very western and anglophone -centric. </p>
<p>Quite naturally, English speaking western countries are found at the top of such rankings because the authors of such reports and league tables are mostly familiar with English speaking universities. That is the reason why, even from nonwestern countries, we may see an odd Indian institution or two popping up in those rankings but not many from the Muslim majority countries while in reality many universities in the Muslim world are far superior to anything in India, or similar third world countries. </p>
<p>To further corroborate the point that such ranking exercises by anglophone authors are biased towards anglophone universities due to their limited knowledge of the outside world and inherent cultural favouritism, let us notice that a massive research, scientific, industrial, military and economic powerhouse like Russian Federation &#8211; although it lost half its population of the Soviet Union to several independent republics &#8211; is most noted for its absence in western produced rankings.</p>
<p>One can easily observe that in reality, when the measures are objective, neutral and unbiased, such as during international mathematical contests or olympiads (where cultural and financial considerations affect contestants&#8217; performance the least) Russian universities and students are seeing topping the charts by a huge margin against the very best Western universities or students. In reality, upon further examination, it is discovered that the top western performers are actually foreigners; thus in reality, western real performance and ability would be even lower.</p>
<p>One can see that Russian ranking exercises have also been undertaken to rank universities globally, but that also suffers from the same parochialism as mentioned in the British report. Though there is reason for &#8220;consolation&#8221;, that many Muslim majority countries&#8217; universities in the erstwhile Soviet Union (like those in Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan) are rated highly agains their global peers by Russian ratings exercises. </p>
<p>British or western publications that suggest Russia has as many or fewer universities in the &#8220;Top 500&#8243; of the world (no matter however &#8220;quality&#8221; is adjudged) than such minnows as Netherlands, Denmark, Zionists, Brazil or Mexico should be taken with a &#8220;pinch of salt&#8221; or with sketicism. </p>
<p>I hope it&#8217;s well known what level of scientific, military, industrial and technological prowess is possessed by a mighty country as the Russian Federation. </p>
<p>The lack of Muslim majority countries in western originated rankings of global universities only shows lack of knowledge of Muslim world by those western authors (which is not hard to understand, given the general Western ignorance, hedonism, and social apathy they have developed). </p>
<p>Russian Federation tried to rectify the situation by publishing their own ratings exercise which, rightly, placed many Russian universities amongst the world&#8217;s best while wrongly not scouring the entire globe for assessment of university education and/or research. </p>
<p>Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Malaysia, Brunei, and others should try to conduct ratings exercise for universities globally BUT by bringing notable Muslim world universities&#8217; efforts to the fore.</p>
<p>Massalama</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

