Khuda Kay Liye: Will Shoaib Mansoor Be Able To Revive Pakistan Cinema?

Posted on July 17, 2007
Filed Under >Adil Najam, People, Society, TV, Movies & Theatre
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Film Poster for Khuda Kay LiyeAdil Najam

(UPDATE: You can view this movie here).

Shaib Mansoor’s feature film Khuda Kay Liye: In The Name of God is to be released in Pakistan on July 20, 2007. There is great buzz about it; as there should be.

Regular readers know how much respect, even reverance, I have for Shoaib’s work. For me he is one of the single most talented Pakistanis I have ever had the pleasure of knowing.

Indeed, one of the single most talented Pakistanis ever.

As we have written before, he may also be the single most under-rated Pakistani artist, since his contribution to TV music, to TV drama, to TV comedy, TV stage shows and to popular music remains unknown to many; too many.

I have not seen the movie myself yet and have been hearing about it from a number of people – including some directly involved – for quite some while. The promo clips are now available on YouTube and – no surprise – the quality of cinematography, of artistic composition, of music, of attention to detail all look great. Typical Shoaib Mansoor. Of course, how the whole package comes across remains to be seen. This is, of course, his first feature film but he is already a master of each of the genres in a movie and his long plays (like Alpha, Bravo, Charlie) must have trained him well for this.


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To me, of course, the story is Shoaib Mansoor. For others, however, there are other draws. The cast includes Lollywood superstar Shaan, Bollywood maestro Naseeruddin Shah, Iman Ali (who is PTV’s Abid Ali’s daughter and was in Shoaib’s Anarkali music video), and other notables. But the real story here is the story. Or, rather, the topic of the story.

Khuda Kay Liye CastKhuda Kay Liye CastKhuda Kay Liye Cast
Khuda Kay Liye CastKhuda Kay Liye CastKhuda Kay Liye Cast

The film has a wonderful and wonderfully rich website, and according to the synopsis posted there:

The film is about the difficult situation in which the Pakistanis in particular and the Muslims in general are caught up since 9/11. There is a war going on between the Fundamentalists and the Liberal Muslims. This situation is creating a drift not only between the Western world and the Muslims, but also within the Muslims. The educated and modern Muslims are in a difficult situation because of their approach towards life and their western attire. They are criticized and harassed by the fundamentalists and on the other hand the Western world sees them as potential suspects of terrorism just because of their Muslim names. This paradox is resulting in great suffering for a forward looking Muslim.

This paradox of the divided society is, of course, a constant theme of ATP too. It is always a controversial subject here and will be much much more controversial for Khuda Kay Liye. It is, despite the controversy, a topic that we as a society have to confront. Thoughtfully and seriously. Since I have not seen the movie I cannot say how he has treated the subject, but based on his track record if there is anyone who has the ability to deal with this difficult issue sensitively and without turning things into slogans, it is Shoaib Mansoor. All the more reason to watch the movie and refrain from judging it in advance.



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But there is another important angle to this too. GEO is promoting the movie as a ‘revival’ of Pakistan cinema. As a long time fan of Pakistani cinema, I certainly hope it is. Again, if anyone can do this, Shoaib Mansoor can.

I saw a post today in Metroblog Lahore that made me think that he just might. It was not about this movie, but about a new very modern movie house opening in Lahore. I have long believed that the reason Pakistani cinema declined is not just because of the movies, but also because of the state of movie houses. Well, this new theatre – the DHA Cinema – is quite something.

DHA Cinema LahoreDHA Cinema Lahore

With tickets at Rs. 250 and Rs. 500 it may be pricy, but from the pictures at the site, it is clearly something that could attract a lot of people simply for the theatre experience. Interestingly, this theater also opens on July 20, and one of the movies it is opening with is Khuda Kay Liye. Coincidence? Probably not.

I must confess that I have been planning to write this post for nearly two weeks now. I had originally thought of calling it something like ‘The Other Lal Masjid Story’ simply because Abdul Rashid Ghazi had taken an interest in this movie. According to Daily Times (July 3, 2007):

Abdul Rashid GhaziLal Masjid has demanded a ban on a yet-to-be released movie, Khuda Kay Liye, declaring it blasphemous… “The film is against Islamic norms and traditions and is being released on a private TV channel without prior approval from a censor board. We won’t allow this,â€? said Abdul Rashid Ghazi, the Lal Masjid deputy mullah, who did not mention his source of information about the movie. He said he would not object to the movie if ulema approved it. He demanded that the government form a board to review the film. “The government will be held responsible if the film is released without being censored,â€? he said.

I had not understood then, nor understand now, whether his source of objection was the subject matter, the fact that it has an Indian actor in it, or a statement of support for the Censor Board. I guess we will never really know. I do know, however, that it is bound to be controversial for same for at least two of those reasons. As for myself, I will reserve my judgement until after I see the movie. But anything from Shoaib Mansoor, and anything on this subject, I do want to see.

211 Comments on “Khuda Kay Liye: Will Shoaib Mansoor Be Able To Revive Pakistan Cinema?”

  1. Kamran says:
    July 17th, 2007 2:37 am

    I really like the modern approach that Shoaib Mansoor has taken on this subject, and its imperative that he shows the muslims in a positive light who are more liberal and adaptable to cultural changes. Change is inevitable and rather than trying to take everyone back, change should be formulated in a positive manner.

    The feel of the film looks good, and I hope that it paves the way for a lot of new aspiring filmmakers and revive or dead cinema.

    Goodluck Mr. Mansoor!

  2. Me bhi Pakistan Hoon tu Bhi Pakistan hai says:
    July 17th, 2007 2:37 am

    After having read the preview of this movie, it looks like although Junaid Jamshed refused to act in any of Shoaib Mansoor’s movie, he still very much forms the part of it, as probably one of the character roles around him. It would be definitely interesting to watch “a change

  3. July 17th, 2007 3:20 am

    I wonder why Adil bhai didn’t quote the main part of Shoaib’s statement which demonstrates extremism by Shoaib that he got pissed because of Junaid’s personal decision.


    One morning i was going through a newspaper and i saw my friend junaid jamshed’s interview in it. After looking at his new attire in the photograph that ace the article published in it. I could not stop myself from reading it. The more i read the more sad i felt. He had announced quiting music after being convinced that it was “haram

  4. Indscribe says:
    July 17th, 2007 3:59 am

    Great post. In India there is little information about Pakistani movies. Will checkout the Youtube for clips.

    But it’s an Urdu movie, isn’t it! The poster don’t have a single letter of Urdu. Minor correction needed in spelling of Shoaib in the beginning of the story, first word.

  5. Kamran says:
    July 17th, 2007 4:45 am

    @ Indscribe

    There are a couple of variations of the poster. The one that is posted here is the engish version. You can view the urdu version on the official website.

    And usually for readability purposes English is the most commonly used language. (You also posted your message in English ;)

  6. Me bhi Pakistan Hoon tu Bhi Pakistan hai says:
    July 17th, 2007 4:57 am

    Adnan Siddique and All,

    Before you start reading what I have to say , please ensure I am not a left wing liberal or right wing extremist, how I want to be recognized is a human being and a Pakistani and I really don’t care what you think of me.

    I want to share my views with all of you and in particular Adnan Siddique, but for that we will have to go to the basics first, I hope you would agree with the fact that we are all born as humans through the same natural process as all other inhabitations of this planet and later azan is prayed in our ears, to make us Muslims and then we practice the belief that there is one God and we all have to return to him and then we learn the ways of returning to him in the best manner.
    Now having said that I believe you would agree we have the feelings as rest of the people in this word have and similar emotions, same stands true for Shoaib Mansoor , I believe he has the right to feel angry with his friend for whom he did the best he could. Who enjoyed glory, fame and everything because of Shoaib Mansoor, if he has made a movie based on his own way of thinking with which he thinks he can help humanity and if we find it extremism, I believe it is not human of us.
    Painting to me is the very basic way of putting your thoughts in black and white and humans have done this from time immemorial, if there had been no paintings archaeologists would have failed to learn about human history.
    If Junaid Jamshed doesn’t like music and paintings and he doesn’t want to act, he has every right not to like it and not to do it, but that doesn’t make him extremist or fundamentalist. Every one on this planet has the right to live his life the ways he wants unless he is a source of harm to others and to me same holds true for all the so called “fundamentalists

  7. asa says:
    July 17th, 2007 5:09 am

    i do respect Shoaib Mansoor but his statement regarding music & painting is very disappointed..everyone has different point of view but it doesn’t mean enforce these views on masses.
    very sad
    Disappointed Shoaib Fan

  8. July 17th, 2007 5:52 am

    meyBhePaksitan sahab, if you bother to read my point of view on my blog then it would help you to understand what I am trying to say. Thanks. Read what “asa” just said. JJ is free to decide whatever he wants for himself. In todays world, people don’t even listen to their parents who give them birth and bring them up then what’s the worth of Shoaib? I personally believe that shoaib’s anger is useless and he shouldn’t act like one which he’s condemning himself that is ‘a extremist’.

  9. YLH says:
    July 17th, 2007 6:21 am

    Can someone explain to me why a 100% Pakistani production with 99% Pakistani cast and a Pakistani director… why are Indian newspapers billing the movie as “Bollywood flick”?

    Is there no shame?

  10. Shehzad A says:
    July 17th, 2007 6:50 am

    Adnan, I hope you come to realize that when Shoaib made a comment about JJ, he was speaking of someone he had a long association with and apparently an emotional attachment to.

    Whereas, when you comment about him(Shoaib), as youve done in your post, your’e being judgemental without even knowing the person. Personally, i think your intolerance is sad. And you sound more arrogant than anyone mentioned in the posts or the comments above.

  11. July 17th, 2007 7:05 am

    yea emotional attachment made him to start abusing JJ who always thanked in every program he participated. So If I like someone and he goes against me then I have right to abuse him as If I had bought the person or as if the person was my slave? And I have right to abuse his personal belief and anything which is associating with him? If shoaib had any kind of sincerity with JJ then he would never had made such statement for his ‘Beloved child’. He was not sincere with JJ at all. He was rather worried about his work rather about JJ,nothing but selfishness.

    sorry my friend your hollow statement doesn’t hold water. Instead of accepting the error at his end, you are rather accusing others just to hide his filth? not a good thing at all.

    What Shoaib said was in plain English, what I wrote is also in plain and broken English. If you think that cursing me could change his statement then carry on as it doesn’t bother me at all *grin*

  12. asa says:
    July 17th, 2007 7:08 am

    I dnt feel any difference btw Ghazi statement and Shoaib statement both enforce their views on ppl…if some one didnt agree with Ghazi he enforced by danda and when JJ wasn’t agreed with Shoaib he went on every length to spread their opinion.
    both right wing extremist and modern enlighten liberals are curse to our society,both are brain-washed…one by ignorant Ulema’s and other by western media.

  13. Saad says:
    July 17th, 2007 7:13 am

    YLH – I don’t see how Indian papers can label this movie as a bollywood flick, when the only Indian artist in the entire team is Naseeruddin Shah?

  14. Shehzad A says:
    July 17th, 2007 7:16 am

    Adnan, so Shoaib does not have the right to “abuse” JJ but you do have the right to “abuse” Shoaib. Because youre a better Muslim than him. Ok. I understand now.

  15. ayesha sajid says:
    July 17th, 2007 7:44 am

    The post was about a movie and has AS USUALL been hijacked by the self proclaimed keepers of the morals of this society. The arguments have started even before the movie has been released and seen.
    How typicall !!

    my take on the situation …. anyone interested in watching it must do so asap or it might end up like “Burqawaganza”.
    banned , disected , commented upon , taken negatively etc etc. No one will see it objectively but everyone will jump to brandish it as un islamic garbage.

    I shall wait till i watch the film before commenting on it but having said that , i await most anxiously for it !!

  16. July 17th, 2007 7:55 am

    My thanks to reader MB for directing me to a much more interesting trailer of the movie than I had originally included. This has been added – now as the second of the four clips included above.

  17. YLH says:
    July 17th, 2007 8:39 am

    Saad,

    That is the entire issue.. they’ve done it… as usual. I am as usual disgusted by the underhandedness our neighbors in the east are capable of.

    Maybe people like Adil Najam should make an effort to clear up this lie about this brilliant movie.

    -YLH

    PS: On another note thank god someone has spoken against Junaid Jamshed’s Fraud.

  18. MQ says:
    July 17th, 2007 9:30 am

    Thank you Adil for this post. I look forward to watching the movie in a cinema house. I haven’t watched a movie in a Pakistani cinema house for many years for the same reasons you have mentioned.

    But, wait a minute, where am I going to watch it? The Lal Masjid folks had burnt down the only cinema house in Islamabad 3 years ago. I don’t know if it ever started again.

    And, Adnan Siddiqui, thank you for posting Shoaib Mansoor’s comments about JJ. I am sure he echoes the thoughts of many Pakistanis.

  19. Akif Nizam says:
    July 17th, 2007 9:48 am

    Going to Pakistan in a couple of weeks. Will surely catch the movie (I’m a fan of Shoaib) alongwith my sister (who’s a fan of the new Junaid) and I’m sure we’ll both enjoy it very much (cause we both have good taste).

  20. Stranger says:
    July 17th, 2007 10:04 am

    If shoaib said something about JJ, shouldn’t JJ be the one complaining first? Sounds to me a case of ‘jan na pehchaan baree amma salaam’.

  21. Shafique says:
    July 17th, 2007 10:10 am

    Secular fundamentalists are the new totalitarians
    By: Tobias Jones (The Guardian) excerpt:

    But what they are really against is [tolerance]. They – call them “secular fundamentalists

  22. faraz says:
    July 17th, 2007 10:28 am

    How can we get this movie in USA. Any one has information. I have not seen movie but by reading artcile I think as living in USA I have to deal myself with similar situtaion.

    Sometimes it seems i am living in limbo between two worlds. I question myslef do I have to choose between two extremes?

    Fine arts and music are very important pillar of human thinking and I do support Shoaib Mansoor.

  23. July 17th, 2007 10:42 am

    only talented ppl can bring the change. so lookin forward towards the release.

  24. Akif Nizam says:
    July 17th, 2007 11:45 am

    “shoaib’s reaction proves that how intolerant are left wing liberals and seculars that they created all fuss due to Junaid’s personal decision”

    …..wow Adnan, you mean to say that this fundametalist/ fascist/ secular person showed his blatant extremism by…….

    …….voicing his opinion ! What an outrage !!! What intolerance !!

  25. July 17th, 2007 11:49 am

    Its all cliche.

    I was looking forward to the movie and the prologue appeared to be advocating moderate viewpoint but the director’s statement on the movie’s site, reasoning on the line that how can such a thing as music and painting be disallowed by God (Islam) is pas de touche.

    On this line of reasoning, one can say how can God(Islam) forbid consuming swine meat? How can God forbid drinking spanish wine or (bavarian beer :))?

    Islam is a test, face it, or shy away, but dont come out of the examination hall feeling u aced it when u know (or maybe not) the examiner is expecting a totally different answer.

    Ijtehad is a tricky business and a technical one, only to be dealt by experts. Although the Ijtehad business remained bankrupt after the fall of the Ummayads, the Abassids and the like,
    a revival in Islamic thought process has to be invoked by experts, not us nor Shoaib Mansoor who r not well versed with it.

    He has a point of view and a message to portray, but I believe making a movie out of it is not the search for answers, its a statement of ego, just like our ATP comments (including mine). The immense drop in intellect of our masses now are all ears to the likes of Shoaib on matters he needs a lot more clarification himself.
    Freefall continues…

    Although music and art is a controversial matter in Islam, but i’ve seen better advocates of music and art than Shoiab’s comments. He seems in the same league as the Ghazi brothers, laal film this ‘might’ b.

    ill be looking forward to watching it but not as much hopes as i had before.lets c.

  26. faraz says:
    July 17th, 2007 12:06 pm

    Great!!! I think this movie will start a storm of debate and thats what we need in a healthy society.

    Shoaib Mansoor wants to push the limits. He want to put many outside of their “comfort-zone”.

  27. AMAZED says:
    July 17th, 2007 12:27 pm

    I am amazed and impressed by Adnan Siddique’s ability to go to use popular blogs like this to attract more trafic to his own blog by advertising his own posts and leaving senseless but provocative messages. On the other hand the real losers are those who fall for his trap at generating traffic for his blog and start replying to him rather than just ignoring this parasitic habit.

  28. Qureshi says:
    July 17th, 2007 12:31 pm

    Adil Najam, you should really close down this blog. Please. If you read the comments above it seems that most people have not even read what you wrote and are commenting out of their ideological bent ratehr than on what you wrote. So, why do you waste your time!

    Having said that, I look forward to seeing the movie. Like you I will also reserve judgement until I have seen it rather than jumping the gun here. I am also a fan of Shoaib Mansoor and agree that if anyone can do this, he can.

    FInally, I also agree that if we do get new theatres like this one that will be a great boost to Pakistan cinema.

    My first line was a pun, so please do keep blogging :-)

  29. BD says:
    July 17th, 2007 12:51 pm

    Lal Masjid has demanded a ban on a yet-to-be released movie, Khuda Kay Liye

    Anyone who intends to capture or retain power would never want their subjects to think. The more they live in fear, guilt and poverty, the more easy it becomes for the rulers to rule.

    Given this fact it’s not surprising why Lal Masjid types would seek a ban on this, or anything else that’s thought provoking.

  30. July 17th, 2007 1:06 pm

    amazed, my blog address is already on this website[zara right par dekho],therefore I don’t need to go for such cheap tactics.


    am sure he echoes the thoughts of many Pakistanis.

    Prof sahab, just like Musharraf thinks that *many* pakistanis love him? ;)

    BTW, don’t worry about cinema, aunty shamim would come back and I can feel that bhanjays have been waiting for her. I read in yesterday’s paper that a lady minister inaugurated a dancing club on the 2nd day of operation, I am sure management can provide you facility of watching movie in a peaceful environment.

    Akif because his fellow secularist are busy in killing other pakistanis on border and in cities. ;).

    Shafiq, my friend used to say something which is very much true,modern liberalism has never achieved anything other than giving Secularists something to feel morally superior about. And thanks for sharing the article.

  31. July 17th, 2007 1:14 pm

    It seems that Moin akhter also getting ready to quit showBiz as I heared his interview recently in which he was talking about practising a religion. I can guess that after shoaib, it would be Anwar Maqsood who would express his frustration against moin decision.

    The interesting thing both shoaib and AM got fame from famous hit Fifty Fifty. The program used to go onair at the time when Zia used to rule over Pakistan, the zia which is cursed today by leftist cabal. How thankless these leftists are! *grin*

  32. PatExpat says:
    July 17th, 2007 1:15 pm

    What I liked most is that after reading the whole posts about Pakistani movies, actors, Shoman, JJ etc, the last online ad said “Vote for your favorite Indian Celebrity”. So much for promoting Pakistani cinema. :)

  33. July 17th, 2007 1:22 pm

    PatExpat, according to Khalid butts of “4men show”, “India mey zyda tar waqt guzarney wali Pakistani adakara Meera…”.So that ad does make sense. :-)

  34. faraz says:
    July 17th, 2007 1:33 pm

    Adnan it is just a movie. Movie is an art form and you portrayed subjective experience of charactors. Reserve your comments until you watch this movie yourself.

  35. Ibrahim says:
    July 17th, 2007 3:12 pm

    Salamalikum,

    Islam is a test, face it, or shy away, but dont come out of the examination hall

    Brother Atif, I agree. But, you might want to expand on this comment because it comes off as you saying that Islam is hard. In fact, this is a common understanding for those who think, and scholars and students of knowledge and others who have the fahm of this religion are unequivocal in their understanding that Islamic shariah has come to make things easy for human beings, Allahmdulillah, as also said by Allamah Siddiq Hasan Khan (may Allah have mercy on him) in Al-Rawdah Al-Nadiyyah, which I just read yesterday. (I didn’t read the book but a quote from it).

  36. July 17th, 2007 3:51 pm

    @Ibrahim
    As a matter of fact, I earlier made a post on it on my little blog. Islam is not such a huge task if the person is willing.

    A friend of mine was showing his recent trip pics to AlHamra Palace in Granada, Spain and we were discussing the delicate touch of art the Muslims had then, architecture based on some very sound mathematical progressions. When the Christians conquered the land, they tried to convert some part of AlHamra with their art but the difference is all too apparent. The symmetry, the finishing, the creativity of the Islamic architecture is unmatched to date.

    The Islamic renaissance can be brought by people like Prof. Lutfi Zadeh (inventor of Fuzzy Logic) or Dr. Mokhtar Maghraoui who excel at their professions over the landscape of a practicing Islamic life.

    What we have in Pakistan, is an inferiority complex influenced recovery which might end us on the other wrong end. But lets be optimistic. Atleast, this movie has crossed many barriers of Lollywood and is focusing on a very serious and pertinent issue of Pakistan, Shoman might not be the Mustapha Akhand of Hollywood but atleast he makes stuff of substance.

  37. MB says:
    July 17th, 2007 4:00 pm

    Thanks for the words Adil bro but you could have done without it as well. By the way i am silently reading. I will sure add mine once i watch the movie.

    In any case, great work by Shoaib Mansoor & i couldn’t help repeating your own para :-
    ” For me he is one of the single most talented Pakistanis I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Indeed, one of the single most talented Pakistanis ever. ”

    I wont be exaggerating if i say he has a midas touch. What he jumps in, he comes out with a product almost true to perfection.

    I , as all here, eagerly wait for this one.

  38. AAQUIL says:
    July 17th, 2007 4:44 pm

    Now that Alqaeda sympathizers in Pakistan are Attacking Pakistan/Pakistani’s. Its is time for the silent majority to step up and make themselves heard. Movies and art form like Shoaib Mansoor’s movie are a force to tell these Wahabi Saudi Brainwashed Mulla’s to let us Muslims live our lives in moderation.
    Taj Mahal and Amir Khusru’s Music would never have been created if these Wahabi Saudi’s version of Islam prevailed.
    Every Lal Masjid type Mosque should be closed NOW!!!

  39. Ibrahim says:
    July 17th, 2007 4:53 pm

    Salamalikum,

    JazakAllahu khair Atif for the post. However, let me disagree with you. Read the history of al-andalus and exactly when al-Hamrah was built. I don’t have the exact dates at hand, but uou will find out that it was built when the armies of Fernandez and Isabella had taken up most of the land around Gharnata (Granada) including Qurtaba (Cordaba). So, to me al-Hamrah is the sign of ignorance, decline, lack of compassion, and is not a sign of glory of Islam—not at all. On top of that, in any era, al-Hamrah is a sign of major israaf/materialistic exaggeration!

    The sign of glory from that part of Muslim world was Abdurahman the second (or third?), al-Mansour, al-Qurtubi (Tafseer al-Qurtubi), ibn Hazm writer of al-Mahalla and not some grossly expensive palace.

  40. Karim says:
    July 17th, 2007 5:29 pm

    What’s wrong with Music and Painting?? Who says it’s haraam…

    I think Shoaib Mansoor’s line of reasoning is correct. He is advocating his point of view using an art form that’s it !! If people find it convincing they can change their viewpoint if not they can keep on joining the likes of JJ…

  41. Ghalib says:
    July 17th, 2007 6:04 pm

    nice debate about music is haram or painting is haram or not!!! nice going folks,add a little religious tarka and some enlightened moderation spices with little salt of lawlessness we are going to build a great nation!

    Shoman’s bread and butter is entertainment,how can he say its wrong? JJ earned from music,now has boutiques,so he left,u call it “jaagna” or “impressed by fundamentalists” there would be opposition. Now this terror thing is a huge business,make a movie,have critics read it,get it released in some movie fare,get some acclaim!!!and the people in pakistan who are moderates,who will criticse it will be labelled “terrorist” and now masjids have gotten a new name “red masjid” LOL in the end what suffers? Islam and Pakistan!coz when the name islam is spoken 2-3 name taken is pakistan!so in my opinion we are all sitting in one boat and at opposite ends!!
    What people got out of Red Masjid is Nothing!u have eliminated them and created many monsters,reading MQ comments about red mosque cinema burning and where he wud watch the movie is an intersting comment!but i will never see MQ talking against CDA and the people who let this mosque going up right next to ISI HQ!coz that wont solve the agenda!coz the mosques there for 12 years ,illegally built,and CDA cute and mute?? after 12 years the realise awwwwwwww and mush like reagan says “Mr Ghazi-Shob tear down this mosque” without realising y its there on the first place has nay one asked CDA? just like Robin Cook at the start of iraqi war resigned by saying “if we attack iraq saying they are not fulfilling UN resolutions,thenw e must attack israel as well,why we attacking saddam,a bas-ard we created our selves” so they create and then destroy them and use peoples emotion to rally their evil causes!
    I will love the movie if it shows what pakistanis want,than to use a defense mechanism that we muslims have faults an y its in pakistan,what causes it,and that it is not islam as projected by west!!a hoax that musharaf is using a precontext that pakistan is in danger of being taken over by taliban,a hoax likewise was created by another stoog of the west Zia that fooled ppl by saying “reds are coming”and we need “ppl in beards”
    people will watch it not by MQ’s mine or Adils or Adnans eyes,they will watch it with a pakistani eye where their country is prime and religion is supreme,any thing on it,more moderates like JJ Saeed Anwar will move towards the other side against whom they trying to make this movie!!!

  42. Ghalib says:
    July 17th, 2007 6:07 pm

    before writing some profound statements read the Book Quran and Hadith ull get the answer,even if i say it is,ull concur with me!so dear Karim read the source not the news!!

  43. NaaPak says:
    July 17th, 2007 7:59 pm

    Adnan, Asa,

    I think you are mistaken as to the meaning of the word extremism.

    Here is a definition of extremism
    “Extremism is a term used to describe the actions or ideologies of individuals or groups outside the perceived political center of a society; or otherwise claimed to violate common standards of ethics and reciprocity.”

    The terms “extremist” or “radical” are often used to label those who advocate or use violence against the will of the larger social body, but it is also used by some to describe those who advocate or use violence to enforce the will of the social body, such as a government or majority constituency.

    Civilization finds it unacceptable to make the use of violence to enforce the will of an idea.

    Thus it is perfectly legal/civilized for one to say that “Bush is an idiot” in the western world without any physical harm being done to you.
    To say the same about Osama in Taliban’s Afghanistan would make you the main attraction/ chief guest of that evening’s “necktie party”.
    Hence the characterization of the Taliban regime as extremist. Hence also the characterization of the “chicks with sticks ” and the “mullah with the danda” as extremists in this forum and in Pakistan.

    The key element is force. Hence the emphasis on democracy and the will of the people by all parties in Pakistan.

    Thus it is perfectly permissible for an individual to write down his ideas and share it and try to build a consensus on a course of action. He can choose any medium to propagate his idea. Be it film, press, writings, drawings and paintings.

    Ultimately, its the power of the idea that will triumph.

    Victor Hugo says in Histoire d’un Crime: “One can resist the invasion of an army, but one cannot resist the invasion of ideas whose time has come”
    or
    “No power on earth can stop an idea whose time has come”

    Extremism is about negating the power of an idea to replace it with mere brutish force..

    Thus coming to the point of this whole discourse, to label Shoaib as an extremist would be wrong, as long as he continues to expound on his ideas in medium and not by force.

  44. July 18th, 2007 1:26 am

    Ghalib sb, very well said! a balanced and sensible comment. Thanks for putting it up right here.

  45. July 18th, 2007 3:28 am

    @Ibrahim,
    I agree with you about the actual peak period of that region but since most ATP visitors can not perceive much more than what they see in materialistic grandeur and splendor, so I thought that in that context, AlHamra does represent the peak. Besides, its also my personal belief that we have to be best of both worlds, otherwise, the Prophet PBUH would not have had a diverse skill set ranging from mending his shoes to making war strategies, trading in between. There are some supplications which seek the best of both worlds as well.

    But I also think (although not sure, as i am a young student of history) that the Muslim decline came when people slowly developed a stronger bondage with material luxuries, heart poisoned, lust increased. The Moguls are a perfect example of that era.

    thanx for the history pointers though.

  46. July 18th, 2007 3:36 am

    @NaaPak,
    I think acc. to the definition of Extremism you quoted, its the current Government which fits it perfectly.

    As far as suicide bombers, there are two phenomena associated with that:

    1. total loss of hope in attaining one’s rights in a less desperate manner.

    2. No other way to express oneself.

    in Pakistan’s case one more factor is

    3. Brainwashing based on perception (which is developed by us most of the times).

    Somehow I think, if the government had immediately made an inquiry at the chinese massage parlour and ur aunty shamim, then this perception which the bombers have right now wouldnt have enforced it.

    The government can’t take anyone in confidence coz for them, all the rest r jaahils and ‘extremists’, all of em.

  47. asa says:
    July 18th, 2007 4:48 am

    @naapak
    thats all bookish definition in reality a person who offer 5 times prayer,having beard,dnt watch movies ,listening music is extremist everywhere u see ppl making jokes of beard,burqa etc labeled them as extremist.
    Extremism(religious extremist) always exist where extremism(liberals extremist) at the other end also exist.

  48. Sayed Zeeshan says:
    July 18th, 2007 5:05 am

    Looking forward to this movie. Shoab is quite different from other lolywood goon directors. I am expecting something good.

    Anyone has any idea when will this movie be available in DVD format?

  49. Ammar says:
    July 18th, 2007 5:19 am
  50. Pervaiz Munir Alvi says:
    July 18th, 2007 8:34 am

    ……..but since most ATP visitors can not perceive much more than what they see in materialistic grandeur and splendor………

    Mr. Atif Abdul (Abdur) Rahman: Your comments have made this visitor of ATP speechless.

  51. faraz says:
    July 18th, 2007 1:14 pm

    i think “suicide bombers” are becoming symbol of muslim civilization. Why we are so desparate and powerless. Why not express anger in some other way.

    Why our scholors dont gather in Makka and denounce this weapon once for all and declare it haram.

  52. July 18th, 2007 1:37 pm

    This evening I came across a blog entry of talha masood in which he had shared an article which reveals the actual story of the movie. Like Talha, I also don’t expect so much stupidity by Shoman since it’s like comitting suicide but since he also belongs to leftist cabal so absurdness shouldn’t be considered unexpected.

    IFF this column is true then I must say that every single Pakistan should watch this movie because it will force them to realize the background of liberals,their upbringing and their life styles and they will learn what kinda creature they are. As GEO advertised “sochney par majboor kardey gi” tu really it would make them feel that they are still better than these _educated_ people who after getting degrees in higher institutes still following the path which people used to follow before Islam.

    Marketing campaigners have been claiming in different papers that it would bring some kinda “revolution” in Pakistan, offcourse it would because such movie would bring pakistanis more nearer to Islam(Inshallah). Just like spreading Islam all over the world is considered the biggest aftermath of 9/11. I am one of many so called muslims who were pretty careless about religion. Offcourse I was not as low as majority of liberals who never miss chance to abuse religion but I had never realized to practise it Due to heavy participation on web/irc forums during Iraq war and dealing with several yanks and others who used to talk lots of crap about Islam, I had no choice other than finding what actually has been said. So whether it’s Shoman’s movie or Apostate Ali Sina’s faithfreedom website or Bush’s “war on terror”, such lame tactics can never be hurdle infront of Islam. Matter of fact that that today non-muslims and liberals are playing lead role to spread Islam by demonstrating strongest opposition.,hehee lamers :-) Somebody told them that whatever they are doing is against human nature. More you oppose something,more people would get atteacted towards it. THanks anyways *grin*

    Khair, the funny thing about the article is that script has been written by media generated scholar Ghamidi. lagta hay ghamidi sahab ko Geo se paise waise nai mil rahay aur mujhe lagta hay wo waqt dur nai jab ghamidi sb ShoMan ki movies ka poster bana rahey honey,akhir kar ghamidi sb k islam me painting halal hey :D

    For a moment I had doubt that script was written by Naseeb.com management because they are also struggling hard to spread such things but theN I read name of ghamidi sb. =)

    On other hand, India is not allowing to release movie, if it’s true then local liberals could learn something from their seculars fellows across the border;) also the article cleared my confusion which I expressed in my blog that govt is also supporting this project. Kudos!

  53. baber says:
    July 18th, 2007 3:49 pm

    There is a big difference between extremist on right(religious zealots) and extremist on the left(leftist), the later don’t blow them self killing innocent people nor they tell others to do the same. While the ones on the right(bigots) also do not blow them self but tell others (young poor ones) to do so and acknowledge it without shame believing that the liberals are making them do so (what a logic?).

  54. Ibrahim says:
    July 18th, 2007 4:16 pm

    Salamalikum,

    Atif, you are right. And nobody is suggesting to abandon this life. You are correct that there are duaa’s that seek goodness (preventation of fitaain/tribulations) of this world and the hereafter. In fact, Rasoolillah (saw) used to seek refuge in Allah from the fitna of extreme poverty. That is so, in my view, because poverty can make you compromise your values and take the wrong path. Allahu Alam. Also, on youtube I was listening to Shaykh Saud ash-Shuraim’s duaa after qiyaamul layl (night prayers) in ramadhan and he made a profound duaa, which went something like: Oh Allah keep us away from the wrong side of riches and the wrong side of poverty. SubhanAllah, profound words that should be contemplated upon. May Allah preserve ash-Shuraim.

    Takbeer to what asa said!

    Faraz, many/most scholars in Makkah and Madinah and any other place have condemned such actions no matter how difficult the situation might be.

    Adnan, I don’t think a movie can bring people closer to Islam. But, nothing is above Allah’s power. My point is making movies to bring people “closer” to Islam is not a correct methodology at all, and can’t be sanctioned by any true scholar. I know you’re not saying that but nevertheless I thought I should point it out.

  55. July 18th, 2007 7:43 pm

    Here is an actual review of the movie, from Daily Times, which provides insights into what is actually in the movie.

    Shoaib Mansoor’s film debut ‘Khuda kay liye’ comes at a time when Pakistan is plagued by religious insecurities. The movie endeavors to portray the problems plaguing the Muslim world post 9/11.

    If directed by any other individual, such a sensitive, introspective story could easily have metamorphosed into a mere show of finger-pointing. However, Shoaib Mansoor is intelligent enough to portray the gray, confused areas of an individual’s interpretation of religion, experienced enough to fairly depict both the religious and not-so-religious factions of Pakistan and perceptive enough to get his message across: that while religion in itself is good, it is often misused as a means to personal gain. Violence, persecution of women and lawlessness are all conveniently excused to have been done ‘in the name of God’.

    The movie outlines the story of two brothers, Mansoor and Sarmad, played by Shan and Fawad Khan, ex-EP singer and model-actor, respectively. The movie starts off with the two brothers crooning to guitars while preparing for a concert. Their rehearsal is interrupted by a group of bearded men on motorcycles who destroy the concert stage with sticks. This scene sets the tone of the entire movie: meaningless violence, all in the name of religion.

    Sarmad meets up with a Maulana Sahab, expertly played by Rasheed Naz, who begins to preach the rites of Islam to him. Steadily, Sarmad begins to change – much to his family’s consternation. He leaves music, grows a beard, takes off pictures from the walls of his house and tries to persuade his mother to wear Hijab.

    Enters Mary, or Maryam, played by Iman Ali, the boys’ cousin who has grown up in London and now wants to marry her white boyfriend. Her father, though himself involved in a live-in relationship with a British woman, is appalled that his future grandchildren may not be Muslim.

    Meanwhile, Mansoor leaves to study music in Chicago where he falls in love with an American girl. While he is there, the catastrophe of September 11 takes place.

    ‘Khuda kay liye’ is fast-paced and riveting, focusing on a rural Afghan village in one scene, and the polished, urbanized life of Chicago in the other shot; and the boys’ concerned parents in their Lahore home in the third. The acting and dialogue delivery is much better than in any recent Pakistani movie. Iman Ali looks beautiful and heart-rending as the British girl victimized by her father’s double standards. Fawad Khan shines in his film-acting debut. He effortlessly fits into his role and judging from his performance, a bright future lies ahead of him. Rasheed Naz gives a stellar performance as the preaching, jihadi maulvi. Naseeruddin Shah’s role in the film is small yet powerful, with unforgettable dialogue. The soundtrack of the movie is already making waves in the market, boasting names such as Ahmed Jehanzeb and the Meekaal Hassan band. Unlike the typical Pakistani or Indian movie, the songs are not stuffed intrusively in between scenes. They merge well into the storyline.

    Shoaib Mansoor does not trivialize the seriousness of his plot by inserting slapstick comedy. The movie does have its funny and satirical moments but they fit in well and cleverly shed light on some rather disturbing home truths. “Acting in this movie was fun but since it is my first venture into film acting, it was also quite intimidating,

  56. Allah Wasaya says:
    July 18th, 2007 9:35 pm

    With all this hype surrounding this film, it is definitely on my watch list, not to mention am a fan of Shoaib Mansoor’s work plus a Pakistani living in the US and will never forget those dreadful days after 9-11. Those living in the US eagerly waiting for this movie, am sure a bootleg version VHS/DVD will be available soon at your nearest desi video store, so not to worry!

    Just a question, does anyone know how this movie did on the festival circuit? was it even showcased in one? With a topic like this one, I would think the creators of this film would also like it to be viewed by western audience. Oh well western audience is probably not anyone’s headache right now, lets see if it breaks even in Pakistan. Good luck

  57. Hamza says:
    July 18th, 2007 10:04 pm

    Well, it seems like the furore over the movie has just begun. This from the Daily Times.

    LHC moved against Khuda Kay Liye

    LAHORE: A senior lawyer MD Tahir on Wednesday challenged in the Lahore High Court (LHC) the playing of the movie “Khuda Kay Liye

  58. Ibrahim says:
    July 18th, 2007 11:15 pm

    Salamalikum,

    He was hopeful that the movie would be termed illegal and would be banned.

    InshaAllah!

  59. July 19th, 2007 12:21 am

    “He said Naseer-ud-Din Shah, an Indian actor, was playing the character of a Muslim scholar, who permitted music in Islam, saying that Hazrat Dawood was a good singer”

    If this is so, then its the second fallacious reasoning by Shoaib (after his director’s intro at the movie site, check my comment above), so much for the finalization of Islam by the last Prophet PBUH, so much for the gradual progression of The Message tipped by the final seal…

    Alcohol was prohibited during Prophet Mohammad’s PBUH time and all other Prophets before him were not instructed so, that means now Shoaib’s next movie, ‘Shaitan kay liye’ will also claim that Alcohol is the in-thing coz some prophet before Mohammad PBUH consumed it??? Lame!

    But the ‘show’ must go on….

  60. Mus says:
    July 19th, 2007 1:00 am

    It is without any doubt Shoaib Mansoor’s is a national asset and his past works have all been outstanding hits.
    His latest venture,”In the Name of God” one has some reservations although not having seen it yet except for the promos and clips.
    At a time when we are bombarded from all sides a venomenous propaganda against Islam in general and Pakistan in particular.Not a day passes when the western media does not put up a story or report in their Islamophobia.Since 9/11 an average mind has grown sick and tired from such media attacks.As if all that wasn’t enough,and lest we forget 9/11 and its perpetual link to Islam and infact to Pakistan,now we have our own homemade film reminding us of all that again and again.
    The film not only reminds everyone of 9/11 but also that of Pakistan(unfortunately).Not only that,a maulvi is shown in a satirical way and his beard is made fun of.
    One asks Shoaib Mansoor whether his film is all about setting the truth right or reminding everyone again of 9/11 and the links to Islam and Pakistan.

  61. Ibrahim says:
    July 19th, 2007 1:13 am

    Salamalikum,

    Atif, well said; great comment. Completely lame argument by Shoaib Mansoor.

    I can’t believe some adult can make such immature, useless comments. So Junaid Jasmshed turning to religion was a damage that he needed to “rectify”. Maybe his well-wishers will tell him what a fool he has made of himself. To those who think he is something special: He is not an asset. Anyone who thinks the best two things Allah gave were music and painting can’t be an asset for his own household let a lone a whole set of people. If I have to go by his comments, he is quite immature. After reading his childish comments (“I had given him sixteen years of my life”…did Junaid Jamshad force you to? Did you do it for free?) I don’t even have to wait to read opinions after the movies comes out…I know what will be the movie like.

  62. uroojbakht says:
    July 19th, 2007 6:15 am

    it was against Islamic values and was an attempt at disturbing law and order in Pakistan.
    those who were troubled were taking peace from society away. Suicide bombings were killing innocent people everywhere and were creating panic and terror throughout the country, and in such situation, the movie, which was scheduled to release on July 20, would only add fuel to the fire.

    the movie was a joint venture of the United States (US), India and Pakistan and was funded by the Pakistan government. Naseer-ud-Din Shah, an Indian actor, was playing the character of a Muslim scholar, who permitted music in Islam, saying that Hazrat Dawood was a good singer. He said that Shah in the movie also declared a Muslim woman’s marriage with a Christian man as allowed in Islam.

    Pakistanis are very touchy about Islam and would not accept anything against it. According to Pakistan Penal Code, hurting religious feelings was an offense. Playing the movie was against Islam and was unconstitutional. I am hopeful that the movie would be termed illegal and would be banned.

  63. Kamran says:
    July 19th, 2007 6:30 am

    @Urooj Bakht

    you know you are very right.

    - Anything unislamic should be banned in Pakistan.
    - Freedom of speech against Islam should not be tolerated.
    - Every minority religion should also convert to Islam.
    - Every women should wear burqa from head to toe and not express herself.
    - All entertainment relating to movies and music should be deemed haram.
    - We should stop using technology, as it gives rise to evil.

    You know with these thoughts we don’t need America to bomb us back to stone age. We can very well take ourselves back.

  64. Kamran says:
    July 19th, 2007 6:42 am

    @ Mus

    you have a very valid point. But before seeing the movie we cannot judge what exactly they are trying to portray and what will be the moral that people will take away from this.

    From what I gathered, it was basically what happens with a lot of moderate muslims living abroad, who are treated as extremists and have to suffer even though they did not share the extremist ideology. So they have to suffer because of somebody else.

    And I feel for Shoaib Mansoors comments regarding Junaid Jamshed. He had contributed a lot in the success of Junaid Jamshed and with him we wanted to create a modern view of Islam. So after working for 16 years for that vision, when someone suddenly turns his back on you, you do feel cheated.

    Remember, what Shoaib is trying to do is give a moderate view of Islam. The failing of most of the muslims is that we can’t seem to see the world outside our own religion. No religion teaches to be bad. If all the religions are combined we will see that every religion preaches that we should be good to other human beings. That is what God (in every religion) intended too. And it even works for Agnostic and Athiests.

    But maybe these are very hard words to swallow and I do expect very harsh reactions. But just trying to give a much wider perspective to the visitors.

  65. July 19th, 2007 7:13 am

    @Kamran,

    freedom of expression is allowed in Islam. U can openly say u dont like it, u dont believe particular thing A to Z in it. But you CANNOT make adjustments in its teachings and say, hey this is the new moderate Islam.

    If it hadn’t been for people who wanted to change Islam to meet their needs rather than change themselves to meet Islam’s, our Islamic societies would have been upto date today through a very sound process of Ijtehad. If you read the history, people misused this facility and as a result, scholars had to take a more conventional set of rules for later times as well.

    What disappoints me is that these so called moderate ones are really short of reasoning most of the times, other times, they do have a point to make.

    We just cant criticize a religion’s current status quo by just ‘assuming’ its teachings. This is where we have to focus first if we really want to be moderate.

  66. July 19th, 2007 8:34 am

    Ibrahim I meant to say that NEGATIVE Propaganda will bring closer, not movie.


    We should stop using technology, as it gives rise to evil

    Kamran,It’s your own made statement as no religiously inclined person ever made such statement.

    you like many others using technology, what innovative thing we have developed yet that could be helpful for Pakistan? You rather should make a visit of Ministry of Science and Technology & HEC where corrupt people are misusing funds/grants which were given by UN and other orgs to create scientific awareness and education in Pakistan.

    Speaking of argument that Prophet David(AS) used to *sing*, its a Bohtan on a Prophet. Dawood’s voice is as famous as beauty of Prophet Jospeh(as) or Kingdom of Prophet Solomon(AS).

    David(AS) used to read Hamd of Allah just like we muslims read Hamd and Naat today in certain fashion. That can’t be called singing anyway. Plus it’s all mentioned that all old shariats of Allah’es messengers were canceled and till Qayamah only Shariat of Mohammad(saw) is applicable. What was done in past isn’t applicable anymore. Even 2nd appearance of Jesus(as) will be as a Ummati of Muhammad(saw) rather as a founder of Christianity.

  67. Karim says:
    July 19th, 2007 9:15 am

    Even if he sang or if anyone sings… Does it hurt u ???

    Atleast a song if harmless compared to the sermons filled with hate (like the ones given by Lal Masjid maulvis) ….

    Everyone has a right to his/her own point of view.. Why do you want to impose your own Islam on others??

  68. Karim says:
    July 19th, 2007 9:24 am

    Atif: You have raised a good point about the Freedom of expression in Islam…

    What do you mean by Adjustment in teaching??

    I also believe that senseless adjustments in teaching cannot be allowed at the same time I cannot agree with the rigid interpretation – Read (Literal interpretation) of Quran. We say that Quran’s message is universal and for all times to come. This means it leaves room for interpretation and use of intellect.. If something is written in Quran and you have an interpretation from a 12th century scholar, Islam does not ask you to limit yourself to that interpretation.

    Iqbal once rightly said: “One cannot comprehend Quran fully if it is not revealed on him just as it was revealed on Prophet (PBUH).” –

    Our society needs Moderation badly (I am not talking about imported moderation or the enlightened moderation as espoused by Musharraf) but there is no denial to the fact that the malaise of fundamentalism has badly infected our society…

  69. ayesha sajid says:
    July 19th, 2007 10:14 am

    i heard that some one has taken a stay against the showing of KKL in the supereme court because it is supposedly blasphamous.
    is that true ??
    and if the supereme court is seriously considering entertaining this appeal then it should also consider my maids appeal because her husband beats her up. oh while it is at it , lets all go to the supereme court every time some thing small crops up and we dont get justice.
    what else is the highest judicial authority there for other then telling the executive to provide free passage to the family of a person killed in crossfire , who by the way was considered by many as the sole one responsible for the slaughter of so many innocents.

  70. July 19th, 2007 11:15 am

    I totally agree Karim.

    An ‘adjustment’ in this case is pointed out in the Dailytimes article quoted above. The KKL folks claim that Dawood was a good singer as a backing of their support for music in Islam.

    This statement indicates the lack of such a general islamic knowledge that The Message was brought slowly and gradually to humanity and each prophet before Mohammad pbuh was designated to a particular time for a particular community. So was Dawood AS. When Islam came, the final evolution of the religion as brought by the Prophets was sealed, the religion announced ‘complete’.

    So quoting what previous prophets did as a claim that music is valid in Islam holds no water. Its all about who one considers to be an authority, in Islam, thats Mohammad PBUH superseding all the previous ones.

    Ill again say that even I can come up with better arguments in favor of music than Shoaib Mansoor’s. I dont give a damn about the movie, its just a ‘flick’. What I am worried about is that when laymen use their power to influence masses, things get ugly.

    This is what the hardliners did in Lal Masjid, their effects are far more obvious. KKL is also in the same category albeit of a different view. So are several governments including our own.

    And I really cracked up when I read statements kay yeh movie aap ko sochnay par majboor kardegi…

    Compare Shoaib Mansoor with Mustapha Akhand, who was not an hardliner either, an Arab American who socialized in Hollywood yet made two movies, The Message and Lion of the Desert which besides being authentic, made a point without radically making any ‘adjustments’.

  71. July 19th, 2007 11:32 am

    “From what I gathered, it was basically what happens with a lot of moderate muslims living abroad, who are treated as extremists and have to suffer even though they did not share the extremist ideology. So they have to suffer because of somebody else.”

    atleast in Germany, if someone calls an Arab or a muslim, Osama Bin Laden, our folks reply back calling them Nazis. It works!

    I think in the US, it might take the current elections only, after which any moderate who is poked, can call the fanatics Bush!

    Morality is fashion, changes with time.

  72. baber says:
    July 19th, 2007 11:39 am

    Atif, its just going to be like anyother movie, you are getting excited. When did people started getting their messages from movies? I thought movies were for entertainment not educating the masses, so you also believe that violence and drug abuse comes from movies, people do crimes as rape because they watch pornos. I think All Muslims in pakistan know that music is haram. Because on alternative fridays the Imam of the mosque brings it up in Kutba.
    Sohaib made this movie to make money. Your and other peoples comment here are marketing his product specially to oversees Pakistanies. Banning the movie will just show how insecure Muslims feel. The context of Mustafa Akand movie are differnt from Sohaibs. Its like Fiction versus non fiction. Mustafa’s movie are based on true events.

  73. Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar says:
    July 19th, 2007 11:49 am

    Ibrahim says:
    July 18th, 2007 11:15 pm

    Salamalikum,

    He was hopeful that the movie would be termed illegal and would be banned.

    InshaAllah!

    ——————————————–

    Wallaikumassalam brother Ibrahim,

    I pray that your prayer regarding this movie is not accepted, Inshallah. So, in a way, I want my Inshallah to cancel out your Inshallah. Jazakallah.

    *dakaar* Alhamdollillah.

    And just for good measure lets do the whole roundup again, Astaghfirullah, Inshallah, Mashallah, Jazakallah. Did I miss anything?

  74. Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar says:
    July 19th, 2007 11:53 am

    I can’t believe that the closet right wing sympathizers that flood and spam this site have the temerity to suggest that KKL and the idiots at Lal Masjid are two sides of the same coin. Has to be the single most absurd thing said about this film and that is some accomplishment considering that there have been plenty of stupid and factually incorrect things said about it already.

  75. Shahbaz Khan says:
    July 19th, 2007 11:58 am

    After going through Shoaib mansoor’s statement in Adnan siddiqui’s post I could not find a single word of abuse as claimed by Adnan. Neither could I detect any desire to impose his views on other people including JJ. Remember, spreading your point of view is a basic human right given to you by the constitution. JJ is using this right through his participation in the Tablighi Jamaat, while Shoaib is doing this by making a movie. I shall be thankful if somebody could point out to me the “extremist left wing” bits in Shoaib’s statement.

  76. Akif Nizam says:
    July 19th, 2007 12:28 pm

    Tarar Sahib, aap kaisee batain kar rahay hain. Naoozobillah !

  77. Ibrahim says:
    July 19th, 2007 2:38 pm

    Salamalikum,

    wa iyyakum brother Tarar

    And just for good measure lets do the whole roundup again, Astaghfirullah, Inshallah, Mashallah, Jazakallah. Did I miss anything?

    Yes, you did miss one and it fits your attitude perfectly, SubhanAllah! It is something that you love to make fun of the signs (sha’aar) of this religion yours and mine.

  78. Akif Nizam says:
    July 19th, 2007 2:52 pm

    Ibrahim, no matter how different our opinions are, you are good sport ! I wish more religious people had your attitude.

  79. Karim says:
    July 19th, 2007 2:54 pm

    Atif you said…

    So quoting what previous prophets did as a claim that music is valid in Islam holds no water. Its all about who one considers to be an authority, in Islam, thats Mohammad PBUH superseding all the previous ones.

    Well I am not going into a debate on whether Music is haram or halal.. But an important point which comes up is that what do we mean by ISLAM. Does ISLAM mean abrogation of all previous Shariah or ISLAM the final link of the continuation and chain of prophets… All Muslims believe Prophet (PBUH) as the last prophet but Does that mean we have got a license to demean Christian or Jewish teachings of Jesus or Moses… I don’t think so –

    About Music being valid or not… If there are number of traditions and fatwa against it.. There is also a rich tradition of Samaa and Sufi Music..

  80. baber says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:32 pm

    Is music haram?
    http://www.submission.org/music.html
    I don’t know how complete this research is, but you are welcome to commit on it.

    Also, At the prophets arrival at Medina, young girls started singing and drum was played. Is that not music? May be some brother would like to enlighten us.
    GOD himself made eveything in this world musical, the birds , wind, water, insects. By theway some insects attract others by making sounds. Penguins sing to attaract other Penguins.
    Is singing without music haram? What about dancing with music? Oh that would be exercise…

  81. Ibrahim says:
    July 19th, 2007 5:24 pm

    Salamalikum,

    JazakAllah for the nice sentiments, Akif.

    Two things: Karim, Islam did negate any previous shariat. Yes, that is a simple truth. All laws before it are mansookh except those which Allah chose to retain. I don’t know how this principle in itself means one is demeaning another religion. Now, if people start to taunt, etc. then that would something not from Islam. However, belief in Islam is of absolute truth of being the only right way.

    Also, read the post and comments on sufism on ATP and more importantly read books and other knowledgeable forums. Even those who believe in sufism, most of them don’t believe in samaa’ in their sufi practices, almost all of which are bidaat anyways.

    Baber: Thanks for the link. Now, we know of another site that needs to be refuted and warned against. Did you take some time going through their site and reading what other mazmoom things they had to say? The source of this “fatwa” is from people of Quraniyyun (Quranic sect), fake, munafiq people who only take Quran to be the only source of laws in Islam while, and as is the case with such people forgetting Quran’s ayaat themselves: “O you believers! Obey God and obey the Messenger and those of you who are in charge of affairs. If you have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to God and to the Messenger” (Surah al-Nisaa; 58-59). How could one obey “the Messenger” and refer disputed matters back to the saying/teachings of “the Messenger” if ahadeeth were fake? Was Allah subhan wa taala unable to protect the hadith/sunnah of Rasoolillah (saw) so that people could follow His command mentioned in the above ayah (na audhubillah)?

    Of course, they are right there is no explicit mention of invalidity of music in Quran but these people forgot about the little matter of hadith and sunnah.

    In Sahih al-Bukhari, it is narrated that Rasoolillah (saw) said:”There will be people among my ummah who regard as permissible zina, silk, alcohol and musical instruments.” And, this prophicy has come true….look around.

    You are right, the young girls of Ansar did line up to welcome Rasoolilallah (saw) when he came to Madina and they clapped and chanted nice couplets praising Allah first and his rasool, but they didn’t play any music or “musical” instruments. Some think that daff (with no metal/rings) is allowed, but that is only for some occasions (like Eid) not for all the time. Please provide reference where it says the girls played musical instrument or even just daff.

    Also, there is a difference between sounds and singing and music. Most of what you have mentioned above are sounds of nature. Nobody will say those are examples of music. Secondly, and I don’t have proof for this, it is a commonly held belief that birds are actually doing zikr of Allah rather than creating “music”!

  82. Kruman says:
    July 19th, 2007 6:55 pm

    Who says sufis don’t believe in sama?

    Awliya like Hazrat Muinuddin Chishti, Usman Ali Hajwiri have listed to sama. Amongst the sufis there are 3 schools:
    1) Those who listen to sama and also dance. Chishtis belong to this school.
    2) Those just listen to sama but don’t dance. Qadris belong to this school. (reference Sakinatul Awliya)
    3) Those who don’t listen to sama, Naqshabandis and Suharwardis. Hazrat Khwaja Bahauddin Naqshband Bukhari was asked about sama and said, “I don’t listen to it, but I don’t fordbid it either.” Reported in Sakinatul Awliya.

    Hazrat Usman Ali Hujwiri has given his opinion in very simple terms on sama. He said that music that inspires love of the world and sensual sentiments is haram. Music that inspires love of God is halal.

    There is also a narration in books of ahadith that the Prophet SW was sitting and some girls were singing. Hazrat Umar came and admonished them. Upon this the Prophet (SW) said to Hazrat Umar that every nation has an eid, and today is there eid, so let them sing.

    I am least qualified to talk about this, but sufis saints have written about the permissiblity of sama in the light of sunna and hadith. Those interested can refer to their books.

    It might be of interest to some that before the destruction of Baghdad by mongols, muslims were having similar arguments. Today the country is at the brink of collapse and mullas have nothing better to do than to issue fatwas against a movie. Instead of this the mullas should focus their efforts in bringing peace and order to the restive northwest.

  83. Karim says:
    July 19th, 2007 9:50 pm

    Ibrahim Sb… you said “However, belief in Islam is of absolute truth of being the only right way.”….

    The word ONLY is the problem… Exclusivity… If you say you are the only RIGHT then you are implying the others are WRONG…. World has got 6 billion people not all of them are Muslims.. So does that mean the only way of salvation is being Muslim.. That would be entirely illogical and against the basic notions of justice. Prophet (PBUH) himself emphasized that Taqwa (Purity of Heart) is what matters not the pedigree, caste, creed or religion…

    This Exclusivity lies at the core of extreme thinking that either people start believe in what you think right or you just simply kill them… I think the real spirit of ISLAM is inclusive and I have read enough history and religion to justify the same.

    As for Samaa and Music, see Kruman’s response.

  84. Ibrahim says:
    July 19th, 2007 10:50 pm

    Salamalikum,

    Who says sufis don’t believe in sama?

    All outside of few, some of whom you mentioned. Go and ask any deobandi or ahl-e-hadith shaykh/mufti/mawlana. Iqbal was against it so was Sayyid Sulaiman Nadwi, Sayyid Abul Hasan Ali Nadwi and Abul Ala Maududi. And, this is only somewhat contemporary people and only in sub-continent. If you go out of sub-continent and take a look at all the times, then there are literally millions of such people.

    There is also a narration in books of ahadith that the Prophet SW was sitting and some girls were singing. Hazrat Umar came and admonished them. Upon this the Prophet (SW) said to Hazrat Umar that every nation has an eid, and today is there eid, so let them sing.

    Yes, you are right. But, did you take time to read what I had written. Clean, pure, innocent (not today’s vulgar) singing (without music) is allowed in specific situations like Eid. There is a difference between such singing and music. Plus, and I don’t want to get into it here, the issue of sufi music is much more serious because that allows music as form of ibadat, which is a grave innovation. May Allah help us all.

    Prophet (PBUH) himself emphasized that Taqwa (Purity of Heart) is what matters not the pedigree, caste, creed or religion

    You should have stopped before the word ‘religion’, and I wouldn’t have disagreed. This ‘taqwa’ you talk about is what? How is it attained? Is it some vague concept that is common in all religions? No, of course not. Taqwa is Allah-fearing, and Allah-fearing is doing the good (like praying, payins zakat, fasting, learning the deen, etc.) and avoiding the bad (not taking interest, not lying, not doing zinaa (fornication), etc.). This is what taqwa is. Now, tell me how two religions who differ on these things like praying, for example, have the same definiton of taqwa?

    Remember, taqwa mentioned in Quran and by Rasoolillah (saw) does not equal “basic humanity”. It is basic humanity and much more, which is detailed in Islam. This is in no way demeaning other religions or basis for extreme views. One religion that says Allah has no partners and one that says He has a son can’t both the equal and correct. If you think they are, then it is possible your understanding is not clear.

  85. Kruman says:
    July 19th, 2007 11:26 pm

    Ibrahim sahib,
    I don’t want to get into any arguments. Your beliefs unto you and my beliefs unto me. In the end every man has to answer for his/her own actions.

    However, you do not seem to have the understanding that ordinary ulema have nothing to do with the way of the awliya. The people you quoted, “deobandi or ahl-e-hadith shaykh/mufti/mawlana, Sayyid Sulaiman Nadwi, Sayyid Abul Hasan Ali Nadwi and Abul Ala Maududi” are worthy of respect, but were not the followers of any sufi tariqa. I had quoted Usman Ali Hujwiri, who is respected by all sufis.

    As a punjabi sufi poet has said:
    Eh masalay tay aazam, hanbal shfi das na sakay

    Points of gnosis were not even known to Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi and Imam Hanbal. Don’t get me wrong, they are worthy of respect but they did not know about gnosis. Infact Imam Hanbal used to go to a sufi, Bashar Hafi to ask him about God.

    So please quote from relevent sourcesm (i.e. sufis and awliya) when talking about sufism. I’d recommend quoting Usman Ali Hajwiri, or Imam Ghazzali on this topic.

    Mar na mulla bolarian, sanoo’n apna yaar manawan day
    Kanjri baya’n meri izzat na ghat di, mainoo’n nach kay manawan day

    (Baba Bulleh Shah)

    “Stop babbling O foolish mulla, let me please my Beloved
    Dancing like a dancing girl does not bother me , let me dance and please my Friend”

    I know your response, that this is all kufar and bida. Let the fatwas roll now.

    Peace!

  86. July 19th, 2007 11:55 pm

    @Karim:
    “But an important point which comes up is that what do we mean by ISLAM. Does ISLAM mean abrogation of all previous Shariah or ISLAM the final link of the continuation and chain of prophets… ”

    Some rules have been further enhanced, some have been reduced, some totally abolished and some remained unaltered.
    Best is to consult the Quran at 5:3, translation from Yusuf Ali:
    “Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah. that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.”

    2.
    “All Muslims believe Prophet (PBUH) as the last prophet but does that mean we have got a license to demean Christian or Jewish teachings of Jesus or Mose”

    What are you talking about? I never EVER said or even thought such a thing. I dont mind a person drinking alcohol saying that its allowed in the Christian faith, what really saddens me is that people (at quite an extreme) say that drinking is allowed in ISLAM! thats the point I was trying to make. We should not adjust the religion to fit our likings (Talibans and ‘so-called’ enlightened moderates) but we should study what it is and if we really buy it, then adopt it ‘fundamentally’ which also indicates consistency.

  87. July 20th, 2007 12:19 am

    @Karim
    “The word ONLY is the problem… Exclusivity… If you say you are the only RIGHT then you are implying the others are WRONG…. World has got 6 billion people not all of them are Muslims.. So does that mean the only way of salvation is being Muslim.. That would be entirely illogical and against the basic notions of justice. Prophet (PBUH) himself emphasized that Taqwa (Purity of Heart) is what matters not the pedigree, caste, creed or religion…”

    If one is really a believer in a religion then that person CANNOT accept that any other religion
    , a parallel world is also entirely true. However, respecting other religions is something different and a healthy sign, subscribing to more than one religions is a lack of a clear belief, its an early stage when a person is confused whether his major religion is actually true or not and so finds solace in others as well.

    Consider the monotheistic religions vs. the polytheistic ones.
    Can they both be true simultaneously? Obviously not. But respecting is something totally different from believing.

    As for the notion of justice which your text inherently assumes that it lies in the eyes of the beholder, if I think or judge someone to be doing something outside the borders of my chosen religion, then it doesnot mean that i am doing any injustice. Its Allah to decide who is right who is wrong, not humans. So even if i subscribe to one faith, believe and infact cherish commonalities with others, but I dont believe in two conflicting ideas simultaneously (or religions), I aint doing any injustice to nobody, coz I aint persecuting anyone for differing in opinion or practicing other religions.

    But if someone brings ‘corruption’ in religion, I can atleast point my reservations. By corruption in Islam, I mean new ideas which GO AGAINST the teachings of Quran and Sunnah. On the other hand, Ijtehad is adaptability in modern times which are in harmony with the Quran and Sunnah. Ijtehad disparately welcomed.

    3.
    “Taqwa (Purity of Heart) is what matters not the pedigree, caste, creed or religion…”

    Can you site where u got this from, the word ‘religion’ makes little sense here.

  88. July 20th, 2007 12:23 am

    spelling correction: desperately to replace disparately in above comment of mine.

  89. July 20th, 2007 12:47 am

    I think and have seen people’s ideas change gradually over time by consuming movies. Noam Chomsky has extensively themed it in his activism, especially under the titles of ‘Manufacturing Content’ and ‘Propaganda Model’.

    Not only me but a lot of empirical scientists believe that violence and drug culture comes from movies in which lead characters are encouraging it.

    When you can say that muslims believe what they hear in friday sermons (without questioning) then you should also believe that muslims also inherently consume ideas from movies. Its cognitive science, in my field we call it tacit knowledge.

    Ur assuming (once again) that I am worried about his movie profits. Whatever his goals for the movie r, atleast i can reason and argue with anyone WITH THE CURRENT AVAILABLE DATA ON THE MOVIE that it is NOT to solve a social/religious problem we have. Anything else, I am chill. Infact, I am looking forward to it as a movie which even though starts on shaky grounds might bring about a sense of debate which most Pakistanis dont even have an idea about.

    Yet another assumption u made, i believe none of us in the ‘other’ camp here at ATP cannot feel insecure by fallacies. I’ll watch the movie though, hoping that there is atleast one good argument from my opposite camp which can really ‘sochnay per majboor karday’ and about insecurities, people feel insecure when they are challenged by sound reasoning. From the two fallacies ive identified in this thread, I feel far more secure than insecure. There is another one coming up, im just waiting for someone else to point out that part of the movie plot.

    I agree with you that Akhand’s movies were based on real events, while Mansoor’s movies is a fiction but this fiction comes with a moral, its not an ‘entertainment movie’, it has a message to portray, thats how it was envisioned. When there is a message to portray, I would like to see what it is, at first I was optimistic that he would do something worth while but not right now coz of the fallacies people have identified here, i can even go get the Latin names for these fallacies (They are that much documented and studied!) if u’d like, but I hope ull spare me a much more entertaining weekend. ur call. and watch out for Transformers, now thats a great entertaining fiction!

  90. July 20th, 2007 12:53 am

    the last comment is for Baber.

  91. Ibrahim says:
    July 20th, 2007 1:24 am

    Salamalikum,

    Yes, Kruman I don’t want to get into argument also. But, you are on the mark: What you stated at the end is bidat and shirk and this is no fatwa of mine. The people I quoted were some that people might know otherwise I could have quoted many. These deobandi scholars believe in sufism and follow turuq. So, go ask them about singing and chanting!! Same with Nadwi and Maududi although I don’t think they followed any tariqah. Provide reference when Imam ibn Hanbal went to the stated sufi?

    Points of gnosis were not even known to Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi and Imam Hanbal.

    This is a major crime on Islam and scholars that the knowledge has been divided into “shariat” and “tariqiat”. There is no distinction. There is no bigger scholars, as stated by other scholars themselves, than al-Aiema Abi Hanfia and Malik and Shafi and ibn Hanbal. No “sufi,” whether that be Junaid al-Baghdadi or Maroof al-Karkhi or Abdul Qadir al-Jilani has more knowledge than them, Allahu Alam. In fact, if I had time I would have quoted sayings of Abdul Qadir Jilani, who was Hanbali scholar, al-Mujaddid Sirhindi Alf Thani, a Hanafi scholar, and others that would have debunked the theory of the type of sufism you talk about.

    Yes, this is it. I won’t this matter any more. But, we agree on this duaa: May Allah guide us to the correct understanding of Islam.

  92. July 20th, 2007 1:25 am


    Who says sufis don’t believe in sama?

    And who says that Sama means “Music” and Song?

    speaking of movies, Indian’s MUNNA BHAI-II did make a difference in society so is RANG DE BASANTI- GO and read papers.

  93. Kruman says:
    July 20th, 2007 1:45 am

    AA Ibrahim,
    For Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal going to Bishr Hafi please read Tazkiratul Awliya by Fariduddin Attar. BTW there are sections on Imam-e Aazam, Imam Shafi and Imam Hanbal in that book too as sufis respect all scholars. I think it will be an eye opener. If you can read Urdu try to get an urdu translation, english translations are not good enough.

    Yes, Ghausul Aazam (RA) followed Imam Hanbal (RA) in fiqh and Hazrat Junaid Baghdadi’s (RA) school in tariqat. Mujaddad Alif Aani (RA) followed Imam Abu Hanifa(RA) in fiqh and followed Khwaja Bahauddin Naqshband (RA) in tariqat. Sultan Bahu followed Imam Abu Hanifa(RA) in fiqh but followed Ghausul Aazam in tariqat.

    I don’t think you get this now, but insha’Allah with time you will, if God desires so.

    Live in peace my friend!

  94. Kruman says:
    July 20th, 2007 1:50 am

    AA Ibrahim,
    For Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal going to Bishr Hafi please read Tazkiratul Awliya by Fariduddin Attar. BTW there are sections on Imam-e Aazam, Imam Shafi and Imam Hanbal in that book too as sufis respect all scholars. I think it will be an eye opener. If you can read Urdu try to get an urdu translation, english translations are not good enough.

    Yes, Ghausul Aazam (RA) followed Imam Hanbal (RA) in fiqh and Hazrat Junaid Baghdadi’s (RA) school in tariqat. Mujaddad Alif Aani (RA) followed Imam Abu Hanifa(RA) in fiqh and followed Khwaja Bahauddin Naqshband (RA) in tariqat. Sultan Bahu followed Imam Abu Hanifa(RA) in fiqh but followed Ghausul Aazam in tariqat.

    I don’t think you get this now, but insha’Allah with time you will, if God desires so.

    Live in peace my friend!

  95. July 20th, 2007 1:53 am

    One just need to read Kasf-ul-Mahjoob by Ali Hejveri(RA), He has beautifully drawn the line b/w fake and real sufis and fake and real taswauff.

    Shahbaz sb,if you didn’t find shoaib’s statment as a personal attack then what can I say, maybe you don’t feel it because your tinking is in synch with Mr.mansoor? that is “reject those who don’t speak our language” :-)

  96. Sheraz Jamshed says:
    July 20th, 2007 3:00 am

    I dont have problem with liberalism. BUT, do so called liberals really know the difference about RIGHT & WRONG ? Not practicing and believing in religious bindings is a one thing & not practicing religion, trying to flavour it with your own justification of modernization is “Enlightenment”.
    Shoaib Mansoor, should go have some schooling again to know the difference between the right and wrong, of islam & cult. If music and painting are HIS personal passion then dont push it onto others in the name of “most beautiful things gifted by Allah”. The contents of the movie are 100% wrong and against the very basic preachings of Isman. Those who do not agree with me should try to investigate it by themselves, read Quran, Learn from famous Ahadiths and please stop reading western literature to know about your own religion…..
    It does not scare me when people do wrong but believe that they are doing wrong, what scares me is when they start believing that what they are doing is not wrong……

  97. Abdullah says:
    July 20th, 2007 7:29 am

    First of all I appreciate the changes in layout, it looks good, & change is always good.

    Pls read the Kashif ‘s column on the same issue

    http://kashifhafeez.com/mazameen_large.php?path=2007-07-15&img=kh_articles/large/2007-07-15.gif

    BrEaKiNg NeWs: Chief Justice has restore.

    Pakistan Zindabad

  98. baber says:
    July 20th, 2007 11:46 am

    @Atif Abdul-Rahman
    Just becasue you think and have experienced doen’t mean that peoples ideas change by watching movies. Actually it all depends on type of people and what shapes their behaviour i believe econmoic factors and environment. For example black and white people watch the same movies/TV but its black people involved in violent crimes then white.
    Religious people don’t question
    things/believe so these people are the one you may be taking about. Secondly its Manufacturing Consent
    and I haven’t watched the film yet so can’t commit on it. And as far as the media propaganda we always have options to watch CNN(left) or FOX(right). So you can select what type of propaganda or message intresets you or be just unbiased and watch both. See its upto you and what you agree on.

    So you and empirical scientists believe that terroists have watched a lot of movies and get their inspiration and tactics from these movies. I don’t go on shooting people althought i have watched several gangster movies like GODFATHER and Tony Matana movies.

    My friend muslim will believe in whatever the mullah says because its the ideology, once you disagree you are out of religion or atleast you can’t pray behind that mullah if you disagree with him. You will bend if he tells you too but you won’t bend if sohaib mansoor says so.

    No! i din’t say you were worried about the profit. I am just saying the guy is trying to make money and good for him if its a hit. This is how he earns his bread and he is very creative with what he does and their is no doubt about his talent. I personally believe he is a very good story teller. Whether he presents truth or lie that upto him and if i want to believe nobody can stop me. And I don’t have to demonize him just because I don’t agree with him. Accustaions is fine but demonizing(Read other peoples comment).

    When it comes to this movie you have just picked a side. You talk about fallacy, he is not claiming that everything in this movie is truth and based on the teachings of quran and sunnah.

    Insecurity in sense that instead of using logic, arguments and rational declaring to ban this movie.
    Beside Dawood and music what other fallacies you accuse the movie which you haven’t even seen yet Oh! defenders of Faith.
    Don’t be naive every movie has moral based on whats right and whats wrong. Did you even watch transformers, I can’t count the number of times word liberty, freedom and sentence like fighting evil forces were used. Its religion that people follow like goats without questioning as far as movie goes its entertainment or else its a documnetry like sicko and fareheint 911 that we do question.

    Admin sorry again for not making it short but thanks for the oppertunity to argue.

  99. July 20th, 2007 12:05 pm

    I was searching something else and found this video of JJ’s interview about changing in him,music and his old views about Mullahs which were not different than liberals. After watching this interview, I am more convinced that Junaid did right to change his life style:

    tinyurl.com/2e9wej

    Do listen this because whatever happened with him is not unnatural unless you are what Quran says “Deaf dumb and blind and can’t understand”.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-kX6nYM2AE

  100. July 20th, 2007 1:35 pm

    @baber,
    Manufacturing Consent is a book, not a movie, read it then come back and maybe then, we might be on the same page.

  101. Daktar says:
    July 20th, 2007 1:57 pm

    Actually, ‘Manufacturing Consent’ is BOTH a book and a movie. The movie is actually even more powerful than the book.

    As to the discussion, it is so irrelevant to the post that I do not know why ATP Admin is allowing it.

    Hum nay Quran ko nahin choora, Chomsky be-chara kiya cheez hai.

  102. July 20th, 2007 2:02 pm

    Demonizing? this is all you and your mate have been doing for many days(months). Ab ount pahar key neechay aya tu dar lag raha hay?

  103. July 20th, 2007 3:31 pm

    the 2nd part of JJ’s interview which I posted above:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNDiOjB8jgM

  104. baber says:
    July 20th, 2007 3:37 pm

    @Adnan
    Is that all you got.
    Agar ount kah jockey bandhar ho tho dar tho lagay gah nah? Come with a better one next time.

    @Atif
    I don’t have to read chomsky to understand what sohaib is doing and use it as justification of sohaib is doing a propaganda.

    @ Daktar
    Thank you!

  105. July 20th, 2007 4:00 pm

    @baber: LOL, that’s a mohawara ! and I was just kidding!

    shukar hay tumne bacho ki tarha wo nahi kaha , Jo kehta hay wohi hoti hay :p

  106. July 20th, 2007 5:39 pm

    btw shaan looks far better now than before.
    he was really good in khamaj-fuzon’s music video.

  107. Karim says:
    July 20th, 2007 6:46 pm

    @Ibrahim

    You said “No, of course not. Taqwa is Allah-fearing, and Allah-fearing is doing the good (like praying, payins zakat, fasting, learning the deen, etc.)”

    I want to understand your definition of Good.

    Should we classify something as Good only if it is mentioned in the Holy book OR can things be good by their nature.

    There are things which are universal and good for everyone and all religions agree on them. If someone is born in a Jewish family and brought up as a devout Jew and he does not harm other people, has all good Ethical value…. Still you will say he is not better than a Muslim… Because he is not doing GOOD as per your definition of the GOOD… Just step in his shoes and think !!! Just as your beliefs are dear to you, so are his beliefs dear to him.

    It will be against the basic notion of justice that someone says one Religion is better than other.

    The point I am trying to make is that people are trying to portray ISLAM as a Religion which is exclusive in nature, which it is not.

    @Atif

    Please read comments above – You have used the words “really believe” and “entirely true” – These deserve some debate. Does Real Belief in ISLAM demand of a MUSLIM to think of other Religions as lower in rank compared to Islam ?

  108. Akif Nizam says:
    July 20th, 2007 11:38 pm

    Petitions have been filed by Jamia Banooria to ban the movie in Pakistan. I think it would be advisable to stay away from the movie theaters for a few days.

    Adnan, I watched the Junaid Jamshed videos that you posted and frankly I’m impressed. I’m all for people to find for themselves what gives them peace and meaning and to preach it to other people and to share their experience with others. But his approach is not to force things upon others; his religion is one that’s personal and comes from a position of humility and not from a place of arrogance and disdain towards others.

  109. Faraz says:
    July 21st, 2007 12:17 am

    Simple fact of life: We are all different. Each of us have our own intrepatation of what we see and hear. We find peace in different things. “Moderation” means different things to different people.

    Having a debate is good, but sometimes I wonder what’s the point of arguing endlessly about such complex issues. Has anyone ever convinced another person on one of these posts? Just live, and live. And enjoy the movie, if you are planning to watch it.

  110. Faraz says:
    July 21st, 2007 1:59 am

    correction: I meant “Just live , LET live.”

  111. July 21st, 2007 3:26 am

    Akif,usually I prefer to avoid you due to your hollow claims and strawman approach but your first extreme comment about Benoria and then praising Junaid Jamshed made me to reply you.

    Just to inform you that what Junaid practise today is teaching of Benoria, tableeghis are mostly deobandis so is Junaid Jamshed. So either make correction yourself about Benoria or don’t praise Junaid because it’s like somebody praise about a student but curse his school which is a lame thing. In short, your point of view about Benoria is as fictitious as Bush’s about WMD in IRaq and Musharraf’s about suicide bombers in Hafsa school. You praised JJ it means you praised his teacher Tariq Jamil who was cursed by Shoaib Mansoor. So, better you decide what actually you want to say. :-)

    Since so many times you demonstrated that you have no idea about Tableeghis or benoria, I can help you to find material which actually would help you to learn what is actually tableeghi jamat or their purpose. Your point of view might not be different than what JJ had before joining Tableegh which is natural, even my parents were scared and never allowed me to go out when these tableeghis used to visit my house. Infact I always stayed away from them. As JJ himself explained that when we are ill we don’t even like Biryani. So I was severely ill too and ran away from Good things and I am trying to recover myself. I am just like you, the only difference is that unlike you, I have determined to move forward and find truth, or say I am in state of transitition. I am aggressive by nature and I am sure only following religion in true sense could tone myself down otherwise all admitted their defeat.

    So I hope for best for you. Come out of your drawing room and try to find truth about things. I think you are better than several yanks who made attempts to find truth after 9//11 and got guidance and become Muslim.

    Guidance is only Allah’s hand even Muhammad(Saw) and other prophets were helpless because they were just messengers nothing else. If one could make someone a Muslim with force or magic then Allah wouldn’t have said in the starting of Surah As-Shoara(The poets):

    It may be that thou tormentest thyself (O Muhammad) because they believe not.(Quran 26:1) .
    .
    I assume you are a mature person, mature people don’t reject something without going thru it. I hadnot rejected qadyani sect unless I myself read their own books then I believed that yes people were right about them. Anyways, if you are serious to find out what actually is taught by them then I can help you otherwise you shouldn’t expect me to respond your all strawman replies in future. Even if you don’t trust me which is quiete natural and I don’t mind then you can search via natural source, ask Ibrahim whom you respect. There is no difference at all.

  112. July 21st, 2007 3:35 am

    Faraz, atleast I am not here to convince someone else. If one gets convinced, SubhanAllah that ‘s all I can say.

    If I talk about myself,ATP is not the first public forum for me neither the last one. If I participate, the only reason is learning. To be honest I believe that Unless you don’t have opposition, you can’t learn new things or get curious. Fortunately I found a strong opposition on an apostate forum in past where I faced so many allegations and accusations about Islam that I had no answer thus a non-muslim movement made me to find out whether those people are true or Islam itself and Alhamdolillah Islam was right. So I personally feel that e-discussions could be useful for others and for the person who participates to learn new things. For Instance, on ATP I heard majority who said that Jinnah was a secular state and used to give reference of 11th August speech. When I searched myself then I found two clear speech what Jinnah wanted was NOT a secular state and it was all leftist propaganda in the name of Jinnah to spread their own message which I think is very lame and immature step.One should keep his khopri,eyes and ears open and try to analyze things on the basis of points which are put forward by different people on different forums.

  113. July 21st, 2007 9:57 am

    @Karim
    “Please read comments above – You have used the words “really believe

  114. Karim says:
    July 21st, 2007 3:47 pm

    Atif, Can u please give the link again.. I really could’nt find it.

  115. Akif Nizam says:
    July 21st, 2007 4:25 pm

    Adnan, when I said Junaid comes from a position of humility, I actually meant that perhaps you should try the same some time.

    You are right in that I don’t know much about Banoria and didn’t even know that that’s what Junaid follows. I do remember reading that the Ghazi brothers followed the same institution; that’s why I asked people to be vigilant.

    Thanks for your offer of guidance; I’ll keep that in mind when the Alzhiemer sets in. Until then, I plan to use my own head to think.

  116. baber says:
    July 21st, 2007 4:59 pm

    Okay I have been getting emails that there has been a fatwah against watching this movie. Now how much more stupid these people can be? When watching movies is already prohibited in Islam. why a fatwah???
    I remember when movie dilsay came out their was fatwah against the song Chaiyeh Chaiyah.

  117. July 22nd, 2007 2:11 am

    Akif, you know very well that you are not credible to advise me while you are on same path :-)


    I do remember reading that the Ghazi brothers followed the same institution;

    so don’t I say that you usually make immature statements by generalizing the things? tell me your school name, i also want to make similar statement about your school after experiencing you. Then you say ,”I plan to use my own head”. When things are not working in your favor then why you keep making failed attempts? pata nai kaisa head hay!

    I hope you get well soon and start enjoying biryani/Qorma as Junaid said in his interview.

  118. prophecy says:
    July 22nd, 2007 5:19 am

    Ibrahim,

    …I can’t believe some adult can make such immature, useless comments. So Junaid Jasmshed turning to religion was a damage that he needed to “rectify

  119. asma says:
    July 22nd, 2007 9:14 am

    well i was found of mr shoiab’s direction… but it “DOESN”T” means that the thought he is trying to project is right… I think he should do prior study on ISLAM before presenting any idea….
    I believe we can not go against any thing that Allah Almightly choose for us…just for the sake that “we donot like it”….

    And as far as entertainment is concern ther are millions of movies around which u can watch and enjoy ….with excellent direction..

    TUM MUSALMAN HO YEAH ANDAZ-E-MUSALMANI HAI

  120. Akif Nizam says:
    July 22nd, 2007 10:45 am

    …..has anyone watched the movie yet ? Any reviews?

  121. July 22nd, 2007 12:59 pm

    @Karim,
    Really really sorry man, I thought I had linked them already here, so here you go:
    ‘Religious Arrogance’

    It is also discussed in JJ’s second video Adnan Siddiqui posted earlier.

  122. imu says:
    July 24th, 2007 9:09 am

    I agree with brother Ghalib & Adnan..

    As a Muslim, if we are not practicing Islam well, we shouldn’t try to justify our acts by saying that its allowed in Islam..

    Music is Haram, its proved by Many Muslims Scholars with Qaran & Hadith including Dr. Israr Ahmed & Dr Zakir Naik.. still if someone makes it halal just because he likes it. May Allah Guide us all.

  123. rozaiba says:
    July 25th, 2007 3:54 am

    I think Shoaib Mansoor’s statement was an emotional outburst. The man gave Junaid Jamshed the best art – music, lyrics, composition – he could and it was beautiful. 16 years of dedication in making music.

    To see Junaid Jamshed then turn around and reject all that because it is suddenly ‘haram’ is bound to hurt.

    Art and Music are created. When your creation is mocked, it can be emotional.

  124. July 25th, 2007 4:06 am


    When your creation is mocked, it can be emotional.

    *nods*- so Imagine how Allah[the creator] feels when we mock His teachings?

  125. Waheed says:
    July 26th, 2007 9:08 pm

    Finally, A Pakistani movie I can watch with my friends :) The Movie is trying to reveal the true form of Islam to some of our confused brothers and sisters.

    As far as painting is concerned, I think it is foolishness to call it haram, there is not a single verse that says painting is haram, however there are forms of painting, if you start painting nude women and men, then surely it is haram, other than that there is nothing wrong with painting.

    In regards to Junaid Jamshed, there is a very nice dialogue in the movie “Deen me dari hai, dari me deen nahin”, I admire his efforts to becoming a true muslim, but keeping a longer than necessary beard does not make you a true muslim, it even takes you away from the teachings of Islam, which says cleanliness is next to Godliness, and with such long and untrimmed beards, the aspect of cleanliness is been pressed.

    Islam is a liberal religion, it teaches us to tolerate, to be just, and spread peace, but unfortunately some “mullahs” are telling us the opposite of this.

    Let me go a little off-topic, I apologize for this, but we all say (including the mullahs) that the Army is supposed to defend the country and not to rule it, right! Have we ever asked ourselves, what is the role of the mullahs? Are they not supposed to be leading us in prayers and making our faith firm? What are they doing in Politics!!

    Mr. Shoaib has done a great work with this movie, I hope the audience understands it and ask themselves the questions raised in the movie.

  126. Karim says:
    July 26th, 2007 11:39 pm

    Yesterday I actually watched the video… I would recommend all of you who are debating here to first go and see the movie.. Shoaib Mansoor has done an excellent work and it takes a hell lot of courage to deal with such a delicate topic in a film. (Particularly when it is being screened in Pakistan).

    At the end of film, I noted one thing – Consultant Religious Advisor – Javed Ahmed Ghamdi… I believe most of us have seen him on GEO TV programs.

    About the Music (Halal/Haram) controversy, the climax dialogue in Courtroom is worth listening.. Couple of important points were raised in that scene.

  127. MZ Khan says:
    July 26th, 2007 11:46 pm

    “Consultant Religious Advisor – Javed Ahmed Ghamdi”

    I like this…fight Mullha with Mullah…Shoaib Mansoor kachee golian nahain khela.. :)

  128. July 27th, 2007 2:11 am

    Waheed, do you claim that you have GONE THRU entire Quran and hadith that you gave your fatwa that it’s not haram? too much ignorance is curse rather bliss.

    For Music:
    ——-

    “The Prophet (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) said, “There will be [at some future time] people from my Ummah who will seek to make lawful: fornication, the wearing of silk (for men), wine-drinking and the use of musical instruments [ma’aazif]

  129. July 27th, 2007 10:42 am

    @Karim bhai
    being your former colleague, i can predict that u wud hav watched it in the 9-12 show, right? :)

  130. Karim says:
    July 27th, 2007 2:33 pm

    @Atif

    Yup man, you are right :)

    @Adnan

    In this film also 2 incidents from Prophet’s Life were quoted with proper references which show Prophet did not abhor Music.. What do you say about that?

  131. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    July 27th, 2007 2:51 pm

    Karim, share those references! how can I say anything without seeing it and why are you unable to say anything AFTER reading mentioned hadiths?

  132. Nasir Nisar Arain says:
    July 27th, 2007 3:03 pm

    I would like to give my comments here please….

    firstly its good that after a long time someone has produced such a high quality movie with the name of Lollywood. its great. I was very enthusiastic about watching this movie. but after reading the story line i wish i could do something about it.
    All of you…on this page….can you tell me how dare shoaib mansoor called Hazrat Dawood (AS) as a good singer in this movie…how dare he insult our respected prophet. How dare he say that Music is allowed in Islam…i can rightly prove it to you people that the only instrument allowed in Islam is Daffly and our Beloved Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) himself said that “I have come to this world to destroy the instruments of Music”
    Prohet Muhammad (PBUH) use to close his ears when ever he heard the sound of music. Its 100 % forbidden in Islam…it is us who can’t leave it because it has now become part of our very own blood. If we are at fault then we have no right to say that the wrong we do everyday is Allowed in Islam…my Brothers and sisters its Forbidden in Islam clearly. PLease don’t wrong yourself about it. This Shoaib has shown it has something which is the very part of Islam.
    Secondly he says that Muslim marriage to a christian is allowed in Islam. Who are Christians.They are people Who believe in three Gods, God…Son and the holy ghost….three Gods see….and anyone who declares someone else as the sharer of Allah’s attributes is a Mushrik and Allah has said himself in Quran that i can forgive any sin but that of Shirk…..go look it yourself in Quran…..its written there clearly….then how can a muslim be allowed to marry a Mushrik….yes muslims can marry christians but after making them a Muslim….not the way this Shoiab Mansoor is saying…..Actually since Pervez Musharraf has come to power…many unislamic things have started in Pakistan…MR musharraf wants to make pakistan progress in the same way as Turkey did…as UAE and other arab states did…by selling their religion their Shariah….now in these countries there are mosques but the number of people praying there have decreased. why because we all Muslims want to be like Westerners…we want to make them happy…we want to copy them…..that’s the Ultimate truth…and i tell you what these are the signs of the arrival of the Dark Messiah Dajjal..because it is said that before his arrival muslims would start to go in the other direction and will get weaker….this is what is provided to us by Shoaib Mansoor and Pervez Musharraf…in our country there is music…dances and not Mr Musharraf has given license for Alcohol….good very good….i am not an extremist Muslim but I do know the basics of my religion….i am surprised at you people that you people are happy about the quality of the movie but not about its content…look at this mad man Shoaib Mansoor saying that he is sad over Junaid Jamshed….i say i am said over shoaib Mansoor about what he is promoting….he should produce movies free from Religious controversies….who is he to project his blasphemous views like that on People…and i am more surprised over the Pakistani Government who has not taken any action against him….i read somewhere about someone saying that in Pakistan we have Mujras,red light areas, and Fashion Industry…i agree we have that and as far as these things are damaging our people and our religious beliefs and i say that they should be stopped and the fashion INdustry should go on Islamic Lines….but this movie is gonna do more damage to young minds then anything else….Actually the problem is that only 5 % of the todays total Muslim population have really understood Islam in its true sense without any misconceptions and the rest are in astray.
    can you people tell me that if we go back in the history of spain and read when it was under Muslim rule….in the whole world at that time it was only spain which had street lights in its cities..its was spain which had the best architechtural designs that europeans copied in those times…its was baghdad which hosted the world’s largest scientific libraries…..it was Ibn Sina a muslim who invented a lense and eye surgery…it was a muslim who laid down the foundations of the basis of an Aeroplane…it was a muslim who invented coffee…and they were more steadfast muslims then we are today….were they not successfull…were they not powerfull…it is said that if Hazrat Umar (RA) had lived for another century then there would not have been a single poor man in this entire world till the End of this planet…such perfection was there in this administration….he was so steadfast in Islam that it is said that Shaitan leaves the path where Umar goes once…was he not successfull…was he not powerfulll…then why do we call Islam today as the extremist religion….about Painting shoiab mansoor said that its allowed in Islam….yes its allowed but not the making of painting of other humans…its only allowed that we can make paintings of things other than humans…..now you all tell me what is this all…..Is this person Shoiab Mansoor a muslim or what….i always respected him bcz of the quality of his work but noy hate him most…..if he is not a good muslim then why is he doing this all…and most of alll i am angry on our president bcz of whom these kinds of people are being nurtured in this country….PLEASE I WANT YOU ALL TO GIVE COMMENTS ON MY THESE VIEWS….

  133. Nasir Nisar Arain says:
    July 27th, 2007 3:20 pm

    I would like to comment on the comments given by person named prophecy ‘Prophecy’.

    I would like to tell you few things. Firstly media is printing Junaid Jamshed more because he is well known to people and the people listen more to those they know well…if you want your interviews to be published then get the right way…call a press coneference or write to newspapers…you will also be heard..the media cannot go to every house in PAkistan and ask every meneber to give their views….secondly what Junaid Jamshed said about his group was an aswer to a question about what he thinks about his group members that are they right and he answered right that they are doing wrong according to Islam….and if you say its not an honourable act then you tell me what is honour…comeon tell me….tell me…..Islam says to inform your close one’s and allert them if they are going wrong…but if they still don’t agree then leave them…that’s what he did….I would like you to give your comments on this….

  134. Akif Nizam says:
    July 27th, 2007 3:39 pm

    Adnan: “how can I say anything without seeing it”

    ….that never stopped you in the past, why start now ?

  135. imu says:
    July 27th, 2007 5:54 pm

    Nasir Nisar,

    100% correct, I strongly support your views.

  136. mazhar butt says:
    July 27th, 2007 8:36 pm

    AOA,I DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS FIGHTING IS ALL ABOUT.HAVEN’T WE READ QURAN AND HAVENT WE HEARD SUNNAH.SO WHY DENY IT……???AND IF SOME ONE (JJ)IS DOING A RIGHT THING LET HIM DO IT .HE HAS ALL THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT HE THINKS IS CORRECT AFTER ALL SHOAIB HAS DONE NOTHING TO HIM COMPARED TO GOD.

  137. Lubna Hayat says:
    July 29th, 2007 8:26 am

    hello

    my name is luban hayat. i want a contcte nr of shoiab manssor. I am very much intressted to showing his film in norway.

    Lubna HAYAT

  138. nazneen khan says:
    July 29th, 2007 10:43 am

    amazing shoaib mansoor /

    aap ki movi ka bohat wait kiya or ya hamari umeedon say bahar kar nikli hamain itni khushi hai k hamaray country mai itnay talented log hain like u par aik afsos baat ya hai k ya movi bohat sencered ho kar realese hoi hai rawalpidi mai bohat sencered kiya giya or is k songs bhi pooray nahi dikhaaey gaey ham is movi ka 2 years say wait kar rahay hain but jitni bhi ham nay dakhi vo amazing thi har character amazing tha or aap ki soch or ap ki research is movi mai nazar aa rahi thi hamai aap par fakhar hai u r tha most amazing person GOD bless u /
    ur die heart fan
    nazee /

  139. Manas Shaikh says:
    July 29th, 2007 12:02 pm

    The film isn’t available on Amazon!

  140. Nasir Nisar Arain says:
    July 29th, 2007 2:22 pm

    I just read Mr Adnan Siddiques Article in which he quoted the Shoiab Mansoor’s statement….this is only a part of it :

    ” I have no doubt in my mind that instead of taking the present age fourteen hundred years back we have to bring islam to the present age. The best service to islam today is to make it applicable to modern day requirements”

    Read it and see yourself what was the aim of this movie…i think this statement is enough to prove that Mr Shoaib Mansoor has blasphemous views…..i ask one question….is this person a prophet, a mesiah, a scholar…who is he….how is he saying that there is a need to bring Islam to modern light…just read his statement above…..According to him it means that what Allah revealed 1400 years ago to Prohet Muhammad (PBUH) and said these teachings are for all times till Day Of Judgement…is (Nauzubillah) wrong…that what Allah revealed 1400 years ago was only for that time is unapplicable in todays time….he means that Allah is wrong (Nauzubillah) and he is right that there is a need to bring Allah’s teachings and commandments to modern times by changing them by MR SHOAIB MANSOOR…..That’s what he means…..What Islam said 1400 years ago will be perfectly applicable till the end of this world….How can this old freaky person change the religious teachings….we muslims were first insulted by Non-muslims like the event of making the Blasphemous cartoons of our Holy Prophet…and now our own people are doing this Job……good Shoaib Mansoor your going right….rest you all can very well understand…..

  141. Karim says:
    July 29th, 2007 3:55 pm

    @Adnan

    First go and see the movie. (Not because I want you to approve of what director is saying but because it sounds very illogical to start criticizing something without actually seeing it).

    Secondly, the point was that if it comes to Hadith and Sunnah both sides can present their point of view by quoting hadith in favor of their point of view. When you read or quote hadith, you must keep in mind that historically there has been a lot of corruption in Hadith literature. (Read Doctor Ghulam Jillani’s Barq – Do Quran (Two Qurans) for a thorough analysis on how rulers of various times changed Hadith to suit their needs)

    I would strongly suggest you to see the film carefully and then give a judgement on it.

  142. Ibrahim says:
    July 29th, 2007 6:23 pm

    Salamalikum,

    Secondly, the point was that if it comes to Hadith and Sunnah both sides can present their point of view by quoting hadith in favor of their point of view.

    True in some cases, but you have to check the authenticity of ahadeeth. But, on this issue of music, there is no hadeeth that says music is valid. It is only the reinterpretation (taweel) of ahadeeth or sunnah by those who have nifaaq in their hearts that leads to the opinion that music was allowed by Rasoolillah (saw).

    When you read or quote hadith, you must keep in mind that historically there has been a lot of corruption in Hadith literature. (Read Doctor Ghulam Jillani

  143. Nasir Nisar Arain says:
    July 29th, 2007 6:24 pm

    infact i think everyone has a freedom of religion but no one has such a freedom of speach that it hurts anyones religious believes.

  144. MZ Khan says:
    July 29th, 2007 6:52 pm

    @Nasir Nisar Arain:

    “infact i think everyone has a freedom of religion but no one has such a freedom of speach that it hurts anyones religious believes.”

    Please don’t be so shallow. If hurting anyone’s religious beliefs was a good reason to prohibit anyone from freedom of religion then MOST ALL religions would have to be banned. Trust me when I say, your beliefs DO hurt my religious beliefs. Are you now willing to forgo your freedom of beliefs?

  145. Umar says:
    July 29th, 2007 7:31 pm

    I did not realize that Islam was in such great danger until I read these comments. I guess peopel here have declared themselves God and taken on teh responsibility of ‘Islam bacahna’. Good luck folks. Although I think we will each spend our time better saving our own selves rather than become self-styled ‘Islam kay muhafiz.’ Bechara Islam, kin logou kay pallay parr giya.

  146. Akif Nizam says:
    July 29th, 2007 9:45 pm

    Geo is reporting that the movie made history in that it did
    Rs. 1.25 crore business in the first seven days which is a a new record.

  147. baber says:
    July 29th, 2007 11:42 pm

    Akif thats what the movie was suppose to do, to generate money. All the controversy and foolishness added to the business. Entertainment is haram anyway but it never stopped people from watching movies or PTV dramas in Pakistan. All movies have a message even fictions. But a movie is made for the sole purpose of entertainment, if people start getting moral messages from them then there would be love and peace everywhere in the world, because thats a message every movie tries to deliver. What I don’t understand why movies are taken so seriously? Sohaib’s statements were a marketing strategy. I think people don’t understand how showbiz works.
    This movies hype is just like Mil Gibson’s ‘Passion of Christ’.
    I am happy to hear the cinemas are back and live in Pakistan.

  148. Akif Nizam says:
    July 30th, 2007 12:10 am

    Baber, I respectfully disagree. Yes movies are a business; however, to say that there is no such thing as a message movie is also not correct and it’s insulting to thousands of artists who have made compelling movies about relevant and often controversial subjects. I think that the genuis of Shoaib Mansoor could have come up with a variety of song-and-dance combinations which would have sold better at the box office. Instead he chose to go with this project knowing fully well the potential backlash and risks inherent in an intolerant society. I think one has to give credit where it is due. The success of the movie has to do with the message but also for the marketing campaign doled out by Geo TV.

  149. Adonis says:
    July 30th, 2007 3:24 am

    As for music and cutting of beard there has been disagreement among muslim scholars. Majority of scholars throughout muslim history have considered these forbidden. But there has been a sizeable group of scholars among all fiqah schools of Islam who consider music lawful with certain conditions while Shafi scholars like Imam Nawawi and others do not consider shaving of beards as ‘haram’.

    So if the movie brings this information to the masses then its fine.

    Personally, I would like to see Junaid Jamshed sing. But he is a human being who has made a conscious choice and I fully respect his decision as should Shoaib Mansoor. He should stop acting as if he owned Junaid Jamshed.

  150. Waheed says:
    July 30th, 2007 9:37 pm

    Thanks to Mullahs, among other factors, the movie got tremendous publicity and did a record business in its first week.

  151. Waheed says:
    July 30th, 2007 9:46 pm

    What I find bit intriguing about JJ is since the attack of spirituality he addresses others as ‘tum’ instead of ‘aap’. Just seemed bit odd to me as many now a days use ‘aap’ often to show respect to others.

  152. YLH says:
    July 31st, 2007 12:06 am

    Assuming that Shoaib Mansoor is as “intolerant” as some want us to believe, could we perhaps point out that while Mansoor has only made a film… Ghazi and others took law in their own hand.

  153. July 31st, 2007 6:03 am

    Junaid’s Interview after Shoaib’s propaganda against him.

    It was surprising to note that Shahzad Roy went with him for a three-days session. Lagay Raho Junaid Bhai!! :-)

  154. July 31st, 2007 6:08 am

    Waheed, you never listened junaid before. Junaid usually addresses as “Tum” and “yaar”-His old interviews could help you to learn more about him.

  155. July 31st, 2007 9:52 am

    ^^^ That’s very impolite of JJ. He didn’t use to be so before adopting this new avatar. I heard him in a talk show on Aaj TV, addressing the lady host of the program and everybody else as ‘tum’.

  156. Ibrahim says:
    July 31st, 2007 11:42 am

    Salamalikum,

    Junaid

  157. Waheed says:
    July 31st, 2007 12:03 pm

    “Shoaib Mansoor did not take a single rupee for his songs but I made millions out of them”

    Sounds like Shoaib is the bigger person here…… for one; teaching Junaid everything for nothing, and second; for not even asking a few thousands out of Junaid

  158. July 31st, 2007 2:15 pm

    Please refrain from unrelated, irrelevant and repetative discussion. If you did not convince someone the first time, repeating the same thing 70 more times is not going to help! Our patience with blatant attempts to highjack posts into discussions of irrelevant topics and issues only marginal to the intent of the post is now running very low. Please do not test it any further.

  159. Uzma says:
    July 31st, 2007 8:08 pm

    Adnan Siddiqi,

    Just to make a point clear here, if we pay due attention to what Shoaib Mansoor is saying…. he did not abuse JJ or said that he had no right to make that decision of quitting music.

    What he meant to say is that leave it to be a personal choice for others as well and don’t preach that music is haram to a already confused society and specially youth which look upto such figures as him.

  160. sum1. says:
    August 1st, 2007 9:13 am

    can u buy this? or is it just showing in cinemas?? i really want to watch it!!!!!

  161. August 1st, 2007 10:11 am

    uzma,

    there is nothing between lines so need to pay extra attention. By your theory , we shouldn’t even preach about “Invisible” Allah to masses because people who don’t believe in super force are more in numbers than people who don’t consider music haram.

  162. Karim says:
    August 1st, 2007 4:19 pm

    @ Adnan

    Following up to your analogy of preaching about “Invisible” God and preaching that music is haraam.

    If someone sticks to ideology for him/herself it is fine but Unfortunately what happens is that when any XYZ person starts preaching, they start to literally incite people.. For e.g. you start with preaching music is haraam and end up with Burning of music tapes, CDs in markets, Life threatening warnings to people if they don’t stop listening to music… You cannot deny these facts as these do happen in our society.. It is very easy to twist and mould people’s mind in the name of religion.

    Shoaib Mansoor has done excellent work to expose the Hate mongers in our society..

  163. Humaira says:
    August 2nd, 2007 2:35 am

    Did anyone see the movie in this new cinema in Lahore? is it as nice as in photos?

  164. August 3rd, 2007 7:29 pm

    After having read the preview of this movie, it looks like although Junaid Jamshed refused to act in any of Shoaib Mansoor’s movie, he still very much forms the part of it, as probably one of the character roles around him. It would be definitely interesting to watch “a change

  165. haroon says:
    August 5th, 2007 9:15 am

    I was finally able to see the movie…. it is superb. Just superb. Whatever the content, just as a movie, as a story, it is so gripping. great.

  166. Waheed says:
    August 5th, 2007 10:49 am

    The new movie that’s all the rage in Pakistan

    By Shahan Mufti

    Lahore, Pakistan – Why would I drive 4-1/2 hours to see a Pakistani movie?

    Well, for starters, the only movie theater in Islamabad, Pakistan’s capital, was torched by a Sunni mob during sectarian riots four years ago.

    But there were other reasons for the trek. I wanted to attend the premier of “Khuda ke Liye” or “In the Name of God,” a movie about the religious rift wrenching Pakistan.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070731/wl_csm/ocinemastan_1

  167. Johnny says:
    August 5th, 2007 12:02 pm

    Well I went to the cinema and I wud say one thing that no doubt if u compare the movie with the ones that had been made previously its totally a very strong movie in terms of technicality plus everything acting story line and I think it can even compete with hollywood movies it can for sure but apart from this its conveying correct messages as well as wrong messages Music is not allowed in Islam and how can today someone has stand up and saying its right why we are trying to follow the west if west is doing the right thing then their nation should and must be the best nation in the world but they are not they are completely spoiled we have been told everything from the way to drink water to perform hajj and to marry everything but anyways May Allah shows us the right way Amin

  168. ALi raz says:
    August 6th, 2007 1:26 pm

    Thanks for sharing info on the Grat movie, althought i did not seen this movie but i know this wil be a hit.

  169. fatima says:
    August 7th, 2007 6:20 am

    i have not watched this movie yet but personally feel that particularly wahabis got a problem with this movie because of their believes about sufism.

  170. Deewana Aik says:
    August 7th, 2007 10:03 am

    fatima, its deobandis. The same deobandis who are behind taliban and lal masjid. They have no problem killing innocent fellow Muslims and Pakistanis and floundering shariat rulings (on not killing any innocent), not to mention laws of the country but have problem with the movie as it is too peaceful for their digestion. If Shoaib had promoted violence/jihad in the movie then his all “sins” would have been overlooked.

  171. Bhai-Bhai says:
    August 8th, 2007 12:27 am

    ATP guys, I do not think you coud have gotten a nicer compliment from across the borders than this blog called HUNDUSTANIAT. Yes, it seems to be a copy of your blog with same style of posts and pictures. I guess imitation is the best compliment.

  172. Neha Khan says:
    August 8th, 2007 3:43 pm

    ……..

  173. Suleman Khan says:
    August 10th, 2007 6:26 am

    khudah kay liye(a meaningful movie)…it was a nice movie…..i just saw it yesterday at sozo! great effort on shoaib mansoor’s part! naseer uddin shah and shan did justice to their roles…
    i will love to see more movies by shoaib mansoor….we want different movies…on different subjects…new faces…educated lot should come in! only than pakistani cinema can survive! in past we have been making foolish movies…but we humans learn from previous mistakes!
    good luck to shoaib mansoor for his upcoming movies!
    Regardz
    Suleman Khan (lahore)

  174. jiaa says:
    August 11th, 2007 4:28 am

    listen!
    instead of cursing one another we must have alook upon us. why are we calling shoab or jj good or bad? may be wrong is here.please comment but productive comments.

  175. bananafish says:
    August 11th, 2007 6:51 am

    Is it me or do some of the beards in the film trailer seem really fake?

  176. AR says:
    August 12th, 2007 1:05 am

    Islam promotes itself by way of action. Nobody has the right to assert their beliefs on anybody else. The only thing one can do is Da’wa, as well, show by example. What Shoaib Mansoor is feeling is personal resentment towards a friend who he helped reach the apex of fame. Disappointment is inevitable, but only on the level of a friendship.
    As far as I think, the rest of the world, including you and I, have nothing to do with their personal feelings towards each other. If Mansoor wants to make a film and incorporate his feelings in it, more power to him. If Jamshed is practicing Islam and showing to the world that it really is possible to give up worldy goodness and delve into Islam then I can’t see why Mansoor can’t do the same.
    We, in this modern era, should be open-minded about varying opinions and atleast possess the tolerance to see everybody’s perspective. And that’s something that we should focus on, instead of ranting about the incessant ongoing battle between the Modernists and Fundamentalists.
    Cheers

  177. Abdul Salam says:
    August 13th, 2007 5:49 am

    Asslam-0-Alekum
    Well, After reading a lot against Islam and the God

  178. August 17th, 2007 10:41 am

    Update on court petition against screening of KKL:
    From Daily Times

    The Lahore High Court, in its detailed judgment on dismissing a petition challenging the exhibition of a movie

  179. MMM says:
    August 17th, 2007 11:34 am

    Finally for all the western Pakis Khuda Kai Liye is available online …found this on the blog here:

    looking forward to it on the weekend !

  180. Mohd Riz says:
    August 25th, 2007 2:00 am

    I really liked the movie. Shoaib Mansoor is one of the most talented person in Pakistan.

    Shoaib Mansoor gave Pakistani TV classic dramas like “Sunehray Din”, “Alpha Bravo Charlie”, and now this movie “Khuda Kai Liay” is a big move from him.

  181. Khola Arooj says:
    August 27th, 2007 7:03 am

    I just want to say thank you to Shoaib bhai for his marvelloues job. I watched his movie with fifteen other family memebers. When I was watching this movie I have tears in my eyes because whatever he showed in this pictures is exactly going on these days.
    The subject of this movies is really important and the concept of extremism is quite clear.
    I was also happy to see so many families in the cinema. This is our first time that we all family members went together to watch a Pakistani movie.

    Thank you once again Shoaib bhai. We really need movies like this one.

    May Allah bless you always. Best of luck!
    Khola

  182. Hina Rehan says:
    August 27th, 2007 7:56 am

    I must say its a really very good story good effort by Shoaib Mansoory I am shocked to see Mula’s involvement in the movie they want to ban this movie but they can see all indians and Pakistan blody movies with Fazool Dances and all but If you are a muslim YOU must see this movie on such a touchy topic and we need that kind of movies to Show THAT WHAT IS A MUSLIM

  183. August 27th, 2007 3:26 pm

    For some it is a threat to their delusional ghettos and an illegal intrusion to their thoughts, for others it is a platform, an excuse, an advocacy to their insecurities of action, an explanation for their fragile moral grounds to settle in. But I don

  184. Dewana Aik says:
    August 27th, 2007 3:57 pm

    Shoaib has certainly started a thought process…..and thought process is something Mullahs don’t appreciate for obvious reasons. Their reaction is understandable.

  185. Salman says:
    August 27th, 2007 4:54 pm

    What an amazingly relevant movie this is. I couldnt belive Pakistani film industry had anything left in it.

    Best movie I have seen in a long time. Presents a lot of views in “almost” objective manner.

    Super Sal

  186. Anita says:
    September 1st, 2007 10:46 pm

    I am an Indian from Delhi. To be frank i would love to see such sorts of movie, if ofcourse it is released in India. :-) The thing is fundamentalism of any sort is wrong perpetrated by a hindu or a muslim. We as young citizens of respective countries should realise that hatred and hostility benifits no one. I have realised bashing Pakistan every single time does not makes me a better Indian and same is true at the other side od border. I am presently living in Australia and will be back in India after couple of days, and frankly speaking learned a lot from this country. And, no culture and individual is perfect in himself/herself. We should be open to accept good. It feels great when you see Sania Mirza representing the country. B.T.W (I’m a hindu).
    Those oposing Naseeruddin Shah, just because he is an Indian, seems unjustified. He is a very good actor. What difference does it makes if he is a Indian? We hear music of many pakistani singers when they perform here. We will be left behind if we are always ready to cut each others thoat for no reason at all. Politicians are cunning creatures, and most of them generate hostility for their own interests.

    As of now, hope you all have a wonderful time watching movie. Best of luck! Cheers.

  187. BuBbLe says:
    September 12th, 2007 1:41 am

    Salam All
    Very nice movie for a change, two thumbs up for the director but 2 things really stuck me. 1. Is music really allowed??? i strongly believe no – but still i listen (if i am wrong than it should have been explained in the movie what kind of music is allowed) i am sure all of you agree with me that vulger poetry in music is certainly forbidden. 2. I listen to Quran daily and if you read Surah’ Baqarah, it clearly says “Man can marry woman from a different religion only when she converts to Islam”. So i believe that was wrong what they tried to prove in the movie. If anyone else have a valid point please feel free to tell me so we can all learn.

    Thanks.
    BuBbLe

  188. Mudassir Raheel says:
    October 24th, 2007 2:53 am

    Too bad about this movie. Well each one has his/her own opinion, i found a nice link to Khuda Ke Liye – In the Name of God. Must Read this:

    Reviews on Khuda Ke Liye – In the name of God

  189. RUMY says:
    October 25th, 2007 6:05 pm

    What a wonderful movie it is… If someone thinks something is forbidden in our religion then first they should themselves find the proof of it..Dont just follow everything blindly… thats what Islams expects of us… Islam encourages the habit of enquiry and curiosity. This movie is a stepping stone in the revival of critical thinking among the Muslim nation. Good or bad.. its on you to decide but at least give it a thought. One thing is worrisome…why is this movie rated 18+ in the UAE? Many people wanted their young children to watch it but not possible now.

  190. Hassan Siddiqi says:
    October 28th, 2007 10:02 am

    Great movie. Loved it. Shoaib Mansoor deserves a national award.

  191. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 1st, 2007 9:08 am

    Adil Najam,
    Sorry, disappointed,

    American style kitch Propoganda film, the music with
    Allah, Allah with military marche music is a bad choice.

    Imagine playing internationale with Goolag and concentration camps in the background

    The publicity is inhuman.

    You have a Muazzin banging his cheeks with fingers
    curiously, what is the idea? the Azaan is never given like
    that, the beards 50 cm!!! the Directors to be decorated
    for such Bufffonry,

  192. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 1st, 2007 9:11 am

    Another thing,, be assured, no, you can not revive
    your cinema with Anti-Islamic propoganda.

  193. zaman chattha says:
    November 2nd, 2007 1:14 pm

    the movie khuda kay liya is a very good movie.this kind of movies we wanted to se

  194. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 3rd, 2007 8:50 pm

    Chatta Saheb,

    koi daleel paish karein, warna mujhay to Tarbooz bhi
    pasand hay

  195. pomy bahi says:
    November 25th, 2007 5:25 am

    i think yeh move agr accting k hesab say deakhyn tu bay hid ache hai the liken
    ass muslim yeh ek bakwas the jo kise bhe muslim ko bhka sakte hai plz es move ko deakhny ky bad app bhak mat jana

  196. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 25th, 2007 6:32 am

    Pomy Bahi,,

    @ App bilkul sahi farma rehay hein, ye aik mukamil
    Bakwas hay jo anti-islam hay. meinay 18 pakistanion
    ko convince kar lia hay. Aik petition Tayyar ho rehi hay,
    Sarey Europe say signature laain gay. Inshallah.

    Ye manhuss film Muslim Family mein fassad aur
    fitnah Phaila rehy hay, marhum Geo AAj bhi is ko
    support Karta hay.

  197. Mina says:
    November 25th, 2007 11:39 pm

    the movie KHUDA KAY LIYE is the biggest blockbuster. every Pakistani should b proud about having such an awosome movie from Pakistan. before seeing it i did know that its zaberdst movie but when i saw it i realized its more wonderful than one could even think.. its my appeal t everybody “do not listen to anybody just see this masterpiece yourself”

  198. Dr. Surendra Raja says:
    December 13th, 2007 6:41 pm

    What a wonderful movie. Very very impressed at the storyline, the acting and the way the movie flows. BUT was very very disappointed at the too abrupt an end and that too without any warning. I was looking forward to the Islamic arguments in court by Maulana Wali (Nasruddin Shah) but was surprised at the next scene when she was leaving for America. I thought NS had a big role to play (or was it cut down) in the turning point. The court case was not completed.

    of course I have seen the DVD and not the movie in the theatre. If the original theatre version is the full story I will go to the cinema for a 3rd watching of KHUDA KE LIYE.

    Can anybody confirm if the cinema version is any better!

  199. sudheershah says:
    December 30th, 2007 6:27 am

    hello, fellow citizens,
    i am an indian muslim and was presently surprised to see the film.I lked the way , it treated the subject. and after that i was going through all the texts and websites to know the truth about music……….as this issue had never been discussed in our faith in south india. i found that there are no harsh comments on music as haraam’ .If it wa such a thing to be banned that the holy uran could have definitely gone to use strong indiacations , against it. It just suggests that don’t take to music as a faith or get immersed in music alone….i just want to know more about this from those who read better and understand this better………..not from those who pretend to know better…………….

  200. nudma says:
    January 3rd, 2008 6:27 am

    ASLAM-O-ALYKUM
    FIRST OF ALL I WOULD LIKE TO THANK SHOAIB MANSOOR FOR GIVING PAKISTANI CINEMA SUCH A GOOD FILM .ITS REALLY APPRECIATING. THANKYOU SIR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    secondly one thing what i feel is why we specially pakistanis are in this state of misery becoze we only know to critisize things nothing else. i think nothing out of religion has shown by shoaib. islam is the most moderate religion whu you people forget that RASUL-E-KHUDA (PBUH) USED TO SAY ABU AYUB ANSARI to reads ayats in musical way and then HE used to weep coz that way influenced HIM much. and HAZRAT UMAR once allowed his friends to sing songs(that time their were regional and trible songs) on their return from a big deal in MAKKAH . today we people and specially ulamas have made this religion so ristrict that its really unpleasing .why these so called care takers`of ISLAM dont do suicide bombing in cinemas where indian movies are openly displayed ????????/why not in theatres where below moral value dances are done ????????why only soldiers are targeted , why innocent children are attacked, why only army camps are attacked and why that innocent lady BENAZIR BHUTTO is fired.
    may GOD bless us to live like MUSLIMS not like these extremist people.AMEN

  201. adil says:
    January 3rd, 2008 6:37 am

    without going into the depth of this movie i would praise shoaib’s try. its so rhythmic and continual that it touches heart. if these things that are a matter of confusion will be revealed by our directors than many problems can be solved and society can be in more comfort and this is been done throughout the world. perhaps our govt think over this inspite of LAL MASJID, WAZIRISTAN etc

  202. saima bajwa says:
    January 10th, 2008 4:08 pm

    i have to congradulate Mr. mansoor on presenting this marvalous movie, it was an eye opener for lots of people residing in different parts of the world. it potrayed the true picture of a young muslim living in pakistan and living abroad and struggles they had to endure during and after the events of 9/11. you made us proud Mr Mansoor may allah have his blessings on you. ameen.

  203. Zafar Syed says:
    February 6th, 2008 6:17 pm

    I saw the movie in an empty theater in the US a couple of months ago and have somewhat mixed feelings about it.

    Yes, I know that SM wanted to convey a message, but while watching the movie one sometimes feels that the art suffers under the burden of the message.

    The foremost example is the court scene towards the end of the film, where Naseeruddin Shah delivers a looong lecture on the legality of music in Islam (I hear that that part was expunged from the movie shown in Pakistan, as well as — quite obviously — some scenes with strong language). It could be a good propaganda but it hardly improves the movie or even helps promote the story line.

    Having said that, I think it was a commendable effort on part of Shoman and I hope that the effort would be emulated by others in Lollywood.

    Zafar

  204. Ranjan says:
    May 4th, 2008 11:12 am

    I congratulate Shoaib Mansoor and Pakistan film Industry Lollywood for making such an effort, I always had desire of watching the progress of my neighbourhood industry, as then my neighbour, my brother will be progressing. I think this film has made a start of revolution atleast in the minds of people living in and outside Pakistan, either belonging to or having any relation to Pakistan. This film and Bollywood film, “Black & White” have released very near to each other and somehow touches each other on some messages like of changing the minds of people of present age and their thoughts who have gone against Muslims especially of Pakistan and of Afganistan. The time has changed and soon media and these sorts of films will bring a right revolution.

    I must congratulate Shoaib mansoor on presenting such an art, heart touching film and a big big film with so many locations, actors and messages.

  205. Ali Dada says:
    June 24th, 2008 7:43 pm

    “The educated and modern Muslims are in a difficult situation because of their approach towards life and their western attire”.

    The above mentioned statement in the description of this movie shows the underlying garbage contained in it. Lots of profited from making a circus out of muslims in the media and Shoaib Mansoor is no exception to that rule.

  206. amun says:
    July 29th, 2008 2:57 am

    Holy Quran 61:8 They seek to extinguish the Light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His Light, much as the unbelievers may dislike it.

    Answering Khuday Kay Liye – IN THE NAME OF GOD

    Full divx format video available at
    http://hyperfileshare.com/d/929e9717

    Full Windows Media Player 9 format video available at
    http://hyperfileshare.com/d/099d15fc

    For PPT (only text):
    http://hyperfileshare.com/d/84f49c35

    Clip1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkvk648RLcA

    Clip2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTKf1PgXcA0

    Clip3
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYMcMvzhLdo

    Clip4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZWmyG_aPQ

    Clip5
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsOCxv1HVP8

    Clip6
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ3cPmgnpDk

    Clip7
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAuKfvuVvPI

  207. Huma says:
    September 2nd, 2008 4:51 pm

    Hello i would like to know where can i find Shoaib Mansoor address I have another movie for him to make. Another historical / mezmerizing true story of Sultan Shamsudin Altamash of India and his life long story. It would be a great movie hit and great publicity for Pakistan if you make this just like the way its written with good actors. I have the written part of the story if you can tell me where can i reach the movie maker. Thank You Allah Hafiz

  208. Amaan says:
    October 27th, 2008 6:09 am

    Hi there, this is Amaan from WANA Waziristan, i heard about this movie but couldnot watch it, because there is no cd shop here, last week i went to lahore to watch it. it made me cry. you people dont know whats happening here, in the name of islam i lost my elder brother, i lost my uncle. my cripple father life is ruined. you cant imagine how i got education under such circumstances. i pray for this person who made this movie. i think he has only shown 1% of what is happening here. there are much worse things happening here, if you could come here and see yourself. women are treated no more than a dog and sometime you dont how many people sleep with her and you will not know who is her husband. our people have invented a new religion and they are now spreding it in sarhad and onwards, plz save us.this is not islam. in our village there is a same mulla as in movie who is providing guns to village madrassa. our lives are ruined. we thank to our brother pakistani army that they doing jihad against the true enemy.

  209. Yasir sheikh says:
    May 25th, 2009 7:47 am

    Wowwwwwwwwww
    The subject of this movies is really important and the concept of extremism is quite clear.i am so surprised and you have done a Marvelous job.

  210. swift says:
    October 24th, 2009 10:48 am

    a great movie .The only thing i liked in the movie is the song .ALLAH HO.
    Other actors are great .the performed well.

  211. September 23rd, 2010 9:05 am

    nk its a very nice movie but alot more to do after that

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