‘Citizens of Karachi’ to Rally Against ‘Klashnikov Shariat’

Posted on April 13, 2007
Filed Under >Adil Najam, Politics, Religion, Society
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Adil Najam

I must confess that after our recent posts on the vigilantism by folks at Jamia Hafsa and the Lal Masjid I had hoped not to write about this issue yet again so soon.

This is not because I shun controversy or duck issues. It is merely because discussions on this issue tend to be prone to slogan-mongering from those holding extreme positions on all sides, they tend to drown out the more serious and more thoughtful deliberations that are so needed, and they quickly turn into mud-slinging matches which take up too much of our time in cleaning up the mess made by those who routinely ignore or are incapable of understanding and following our comment policy. Having said all that, let me also say that it is intellectually dishonest to simply ignore events and trends that are tearing apart the fabric of society.

Dawn ad (1) about Rally against 'Klashnikov Shariat'Dawn ad (1) about Rally against 'Klashnikov Shariat'

With that rather long preamble, what has really prompted this post are two things I saw in today’s Dawn. The first is a set of two ads on behalf of ‘The Citizens of Karachi’ (clicking on the images will take you to larger and more readable versions). The first starts off with:

“Are You Ready? Do you want danda bardar and klashnikov shariat?
IF NOT THEN… come to attend the rally in lage number and show your solidarity against the danda bardar and klashnikov shariat.”

I found these ads to be yet more evidence of a polarized society. More than that, I wonder who put these ads? Any clues, readers? I also wonder how many – and who – will show up on the 15th at this rally (starting 2:00PM near the Mausoleum of Quaid-i-Azam)?

The second item appears on the back page of Dawn (and most other papers) and is much more disturbing. Here is the story in full:

Militants Beat up Dancers

LAKKI MARWAT, April 12: Clashes between militants and villagers in the Dhoda-Shah Hasankhel area on Thursday morning left two people injured. About a dozen people were taken hostage by the militants.

Sources said a group of Taliban militants had beaten up some transvestite dancers, shaved their heads and broken their musical instruments near Abdulkhel as they were going to the Dhoda village to perform at a wedding on Wednesday night.

Villagers decided to take revenge by raising a Lashkar against the Taliban, the sources said. Light and heavy weapons were used and the Taliban also fired rockets during the clash which lasted for several hours. The Taliban took 12 villagers hostage. Five of them were later freed while the others were in the custody of the Taliban till late evening, according to the administrator of a seminary, Hafiz Amanullah Khan.

A heavy contingent of police and Frontier Constabulary personnel reached the area. A ceasefire was brokered by some local ulema who held talks with village elders and the Taliban. The sources said the situation was tense and additional contingents of the FC had been summoned.

What is common between both stories is that the battle lines in a divided society are being drawn. The only possible good that could come out of this is for the mainstream of the country to recognize the difference between being ‘religious’ and ‘religious extremism.’ Maybe it will take such actions to remind people that we can be religious without being religious extremists; that faith should help flourish a culture of caring, not of violence.

228 Comments on “‘Citizens of Karachi’ to Rally Against ‘Klashnikov Shariat’”

  1. Jabir Khan says:
    April 13th, 2007 2:37 am

    No you are absolutely right; we do not want to live under kashinkov shariat but rather under the tanks of an illegal military govt. The smell of leather of military boots is so good and refreshing. with all its gifts, the disappearance of people, the 200 Billion Rupees worth of Steel Mills going for 10 percent. The sight of police grabbing the hair or Chief Justice of Pakistan makes one chuckle. Really, I burst into laughter when I saw the picutre of a young man with is lowered shalwaar at the hands of police in public who was protesting for his missing father.

    What an ungrateful lot we must have become.

  2. Faraz says:
    April 13th, 2007 2:43 am

    Hope this rally ends peacefully. Wonder if there’s also an Urdu version of this poster (or are they targeting a very specific segment of the society?) Would like to see something similar happening in Islamabad as well.

    Tranvestite dancers? In a remote corner of NWFP? Didn’t see that coming. But that’s less shocking than Taliban operating freely and boldly on this side of the border. Are these really “Taliban”, or supporters of Taliban? May be it doesn’t make a difference.

  3. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 13th, 2007 3:11 am

    Jabir Sahab, Mohabbat aur Amriat mey sab kuch Jaiz hay :-)

  4. Eidee Man says:
    April 13th, 2007 3:15 am

    “tearing apart the fabric of society”

    Not quite, at least I hope not. Despite its problems, I honestly think Pakistan is much less polarized than most countries, including the U.S.

    Unfortunately, religiously-motivated parties the world over are obsessed with fringe issues and have little to no concern for the real problems. Religious groups in the U.S. are obsessed with gay marriage and abortion but don’t give a rat’s ass about things like poverty, etc.

    An adviser of mine once said that fields that have the word “science” appended to them are not really sciences…such as computer science, for example. The same is probably true of religious groups…very little to do with religion.

    I must say, however, that although these groups are absolutely wrong in what they’re trying to do, the government does need to enforce the laws it so proudly stands by…laws against alcohol, prostitution, drugs, etc are little more than a joke in terms of actual enforcement.

  5. YLH says:
    April 13th, 2007 3:27 am

    Jabir mian…

    How does opposing imposition of views on us by an assorted variety of beardoes necessarily mean supporting an illegal military government?

    Ironic isn’t it that those trying to impose Sharia on us in Islamabad are the same people (the Hafsa Brothers) who call General Zia-ul-Haq a “Shaheed” and were actually very close to that Military dictator… and ironically were released by this one in 2004-2005 after being implicated in international terrorism…

    So your point is, as usual, borne out of that very dangerous thing called “little knowledge”.

  6. Jabir Khan says:
    April 13th, 2007 4:05 am

    Adnan, kia khoob kaha mohabat aur amriat main sab jaiz hai, kionkay in ki nazar main saray awam naajaiz hain.

    YLH sahib, my little knowledge tells me the whole fiasco was created in order to shift the focus from the Chief Justice blunder. Timing tells everything as who is behind it. So making a fuss over it only helps the real perpetrators. Hope you are following my concern.
    If you have noted the pattern of my posts, you should have concluded that I demand a respectful return of the Chief Justice.

    So honestly inform me who is losing the focus here by going after maulvis and playing in the hands of this illegal govt? Infact what is there to debate when our own Chief Justice is begging for justice? By venting out your frustrations on maulvis, are you trying to curb the shame you must be feeling in CJ case?

  7. ahsan says:
    April 13th, 2007 4:29 am

    I consider it to be a good news that the citizens are coming out against Taliban and Jihadis who are trying to impose by force their version of Islam to the people. But fighting against only Taliban and Extremists will be a lost battle as long as their creaters, the supporters, tha God-Fathers and suppliers of klashnikovs continue supporting and encouraging these groups.

    So, battling against only the klashnikov will not bring back the complete freedom that every citizen is aspiring.

    Ahsan

  8. YLH says:
    April 13th, 2007 5:37 am

    Jabir mian,

    My point exactly… then by the same token, one can safely assume that this is Noora Kushti between two old buddies…

    All the more reason for civil society to rise up against both the government and these freaks… and what is more is that forces like MMA should show good faith and join the citizens in these marches…

  9. ayesha says:
    April 13th, 2007 6:05 am

    @ Adil: There is rally planned in Islamabad on April 19 to protest the very same:

    Citizen’s Protest Rally in Islamabad.

  10. ayesha says:
    April 13th, 2007 6:06 am
  11. Nazir says:
    April 13th, 2007 6:48 am

    “we do not want to live under kashinkov shariat but rather under the tanks of an illegal military govt.”

    Jabir, they are two heads of the same beast. Have you not noticed?

    Why are Mullahs the most privileged class in the country in this era of ‘enlightened moderation’?

  12. Khalid R Hasan says:
    April 13th, 2007 7:06 am

    The ad doesn’t say so but all previous news items and announcements said that the MQM was organising the rally. Since the time that the MMA tore up copies of the Women’s Protection Bill in the National Assembly, the MQM has brought out a number of rallies against the religious parties. In this case there’s no doubt they are on the right side of the argument, at least in my opinion, but I can’t help wondering how much of it is politics.

  13. umar hayat says:
    April 13th, 2007 7:08 am

    Govt should decide what’s wrong and take action, citizen and political parties should freely express their opinion but let the people decide….what they think about parties views..it’s criminal to sit in london and ask peolple to take out rallies in issues which clearly devide the masses into twwo extremes…it’s will trigger more violance and violaent attitudes….every party should work for democracy/ freedom of speech and tolerance…every body has right to practice the sect of islam they want to follow…if you accept one call for rally…that’s trying to force your view….no violent protest should be ever allowed by any one…even in the name of GOD and Prophet.

  14. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 13th, 2007 7:53 am

    The nation continues to follow danda shariyat of dictator,now laywers:

    tinyurl.com/2ztck3

  15. Moeen Bhatti says:
    April 13th, 2007 9:03 am

    I still think that the mainstream population in Pakistan is not extremist. Most of the extremist in Pakistan, if not all, seem to be a failure in society as such and they get pretty good attention by joining the extremists. This is what I believe, you guys don’t have to agree with me. It is indeed a good sign that people want to protest against these folks!!

  16. Anwar says:
    April 13th, 2007 9:04 am

    It is a good and healthy start for the majority of citizens of Pakistan to voice their concerns without intimidation from the holy ones. There is strength in numbers – the undercurrents of dissatisfaction with the status quo were always present, recent events have only triggered them to come into open.
    Such campaigns are relevant for Karachi because of the presence of large underclass however similar campaigns will have profound impact if they start in NWFP and Punjab – Punjab being the power canter and center of gravity, and NWFP where a much deeper mess is brewing. Besides, these two provinces also supply bulk of military personnel…

  17. PAKISTANI says:
    April 14th, 2007 1:26 pm

    It matters less to me who is doing this than what it is about. I am so glad that people are rising and say NO to mullah vigilantes and Taliban style tactics. I don’t like MQM but that does not take away from the purpose. The purpose is a good one.

    Just like the JUI and MMA tried to highjack the CJ demonstrations by trying to ‘own’ the issue, the MQM is trying to do the same here. What they have both realized is that people are fed up with some things (Military in the CJ case and Mullahs in this Lal Masjid case), as politicians it is their job to try to capitalize on that. But ultimately just like no one really allowed JUI and MMA to own the CJ issue people will not allow MQM to own this issue. What is heartening is that people are saying NO to mullahs just liek they are saying NO to military.

  18. Jabir Khan says:
    April 13th, 2007 10:05 am

    My point exactly… then by the same token, one can safely assume that this is Noora Kushti between two old buddies…
    YLH sahib, but kindly note, by paying unnecessary attention to the boogeyman the real party stands to win. This is exactly what they want the civil society to do. So we must not let the real issue fade away, the Chief Justice case. Otherwise it will be waste of energy. Old but effective principle of divide and rule is in action.

  19. Jabir Khan says:
    April 13th, 2007 11:04 am

    Nazir, you just couldn’t follow the sarcasm in my post. So just leave it.

  20. Farrukh says:
    April 13th, 2007 12:57 pm

    Jabir, are (a) tanks and military and (b) klashnikov shariat the only two choices…..

    Because if they are then probably most will choose (a) and rightly so… between those two that IS preferable.

    I am hoping, as is Adil here, that there are some other options too!

  21. alibhae says:
    April 13th, 2007 2:21 pm

    Jabir khan, the lal masjid and hafsa crew are just trying to protect their illegal land grab and construction.

    I agree with Farrukh that given the choice between military and mullahs, I and most Pakistanis will choose the military every time.

  22. alibhae says:
    April 13th, 2007 2:30 pm

    Adil, I think we are talking about two different divides and confusing ourselves. There exists a cultural divide between the westernized educated secular elite and the culturally conservative, practicing muslim majority.

    The other divide is the one between those who want secular public policy, and those who want to impose their version of Sharia.

    What is happening is the fundamentalists trying to gain traction by hijacking whatever issue they can. The lawyer community has successfully kept them from highjacking the CJP issue.

    Thankfully, even the culturally conservative pakhtoon are unwilling to be taken for a ride by the taliban as indicated by the incident you mentioned, and the incident in Tank where police stopped taliban from taking children away for Jihad fodder.

  23. Asad says:
    April 13th, 2007 2:58 pm

    Honestly, discussing this seems to be pointless as is evident from the previous two articles which had a counter comment fest.

    I don’t expect this to be any different.

    Oh, and Adil, can you filter out the incredible India Google ads? They are irritating on PAKISTANiat.com.

  24. Harris says:
    April 13th, 2007 3:16 pm

    It’s a good sign that the silent majority is trying to be heard. These mullahs have to be beaten in their own game by the show of street power.

    I hope the residents of Karachi and Islamabad take part in large numbers.

  25. jk says:
    April 13th, 2007 3:27 pm

    I’m glad that this is being organized. I hope they are all safe when they are protesting.

  26. Abdullah H. says:
    April 13th, 2007 3:43 pm

    First of all this rally is organized by MQM who want to exploit the issue to maintain there vvote bank. MQM is since long time in government and the performance isnt good like electricity problem, surging street crime and alliance with army which has been severely criticized in the past and poor performance on federal ministries hold by MQM.
    No one can deny the folly done by fraction of mullahs already rejected by genuine religious leaders. But there is no moral ground to participate in a ruling party’s rally who has been quite on CJ issue as well as other much more important issues than this one.

  27. Roshan says:
    April 13th, 2007 4:11 pm

    I was just wondering that how unfortunate nation we are whose ideologies are set by military dictators. Zia implemented islamization and Musharraf is trying for secularization.
    It was only Bhutto who mobilized the public with Roti Kara aur Makaan but his daughter converted that party from public limited to private limited.
    There is no civilian or military leader who truly brought up the idea that What Public Demands?
    The rotation of military regimes have corrupted the spirit of democracy from our society. Unfortunately the people now believe that the democratic system will not work in the country.
    We have glaring example of legal fraternity which emerged as a strong section of our mobilized society. The major factor for their unity and mobilization is the continuation of bar associations elections every year. Despite of Military rule the lawyers continued their elections process in their respective bars.
    Its an important indicator to believe that the bad eggs will be filtered by the public with the continuity of democratic process.
    The struggle for democracy will automatically expell these military interventions, lal masjid sydrome and Deal or Dheel phenomenon.
    I hope a rally against AK47 Shariat will be a great success as that of legal fraternity.

  28. Hijaz says:
    April 13th, 2007 4:24 pm

    MQM organizing a rally against the Kalashnikov Shariat is for the record laughable. The biggest terrorist organization, responsible for the murder and torture of thousands of innocent citizens, wants people to join it in a rally against extremism. Altaf Hussain a terrorist who lives a life of luxury in London, should perhaps stop the killing of his own party workers who step out of line. The West protects a mass murderer and labels freedom fighters of Kashmir as terrorists. Please folks wake up and see the lies and deceptions.

  29. Akif Nizam says:
    April 13th, 2007 4:52 pm

    MQM is a regional mafia but they are no worse than the religious mafia, the military mafia, the landlord mafia or the tribal mafia which runs the rest of the country and does much worse things. If we shun every protest because it is organized by an interest group, then we might as well all stay quite and sit home. I for one support the effort and would have attented if I were in the city.

  30. HaqParast says:
    April 13th, 2007 5:20 pm

    If it is really organized by MQM then it’s really laughable. Don’t people remember Altaf Hussain’s speeches in Karachi where he asked people to sell their TVs and VCRs and buy Klashinkovs? MQM surely knows the power of Klashinkovs as its “success” was truely built on terrorism and intimidation. Instead of organizing rallies couldn’t they have made the government take action against the dandabardars? After all, they are a part of this government.

  31. Jabir Khan says:
    April 13th, 2007 5:42 pm

    I agree with Farrukh that given the choice between military and mullahs, I and most Pakistanis will choose the military every time.

    I am appaled and devasted at these words. Am I supposed to believe these are coming from our alleged ‘educated’ class? Kindly note the majority of Pakistanis do not want what you think they want. You will be surprised to know their level of political awareness. But why should you care in the confines of your drawing room, when you yourself are so willingly eager to support anti-democracy forces. My point in previous posts is thus validated. You are playing in their hands exactly as they want.

    The whole set of mentality of ‘enlightened folks’ reminds me of Pavlov’s dogs behaving in a pre-conditioned manner when a certain tune is played. I am surprised that so many people can be socially conditioned to do this? Now that is some serious achievement. Have to study more about it. Maybe I am addressing the wrong crowd.

    Lets discuss a viable third option, tell me what contribution have you given in Chief Justice case? No matter how small? Nothing?

    And why doesn’t Adil cover CJP case with same fervor as ‘maulvi’ incident?

  32. April 13th, 2007 5:56 pm

    I agree with Farrukh that given the choice between military and mullahs, I and most Pakistanis will choose the military every time.

    Actually, this statement from our dear friend shows just how far the military has succeeded in convincing our intelligentsia that khaki-rule is somehow “necessary”.

    Things like these make me suspect that the whole Lal Masjid episode has been deliberately allowed to rise to a dangerous level… just so that people are terrified and end up supporting the military.

  33. Ibrahim says:
    April 13th, 2007 5:58 pm

    First, this rally is useless and is a drama. It’ll only create headache for the people and accomplish noting.

    People are talking about MQM being the organizer. From time to time, in fact quite often, people here take aim at MQM and rightly so. What people accuse them of is almost all true, no doubt. I want to look at matters from religious perspective so I’ve no love for MQM because it’s the biggest enemy of religion. But, taali hamaysha douno hatoon say bajti hay. MQM did what it did because of the perceived bias it saw against ethnic Urdu-speakers in Karachi and surrounding areas. I mean the government (or as MQM will call the Punjabis) did all the horrible things that MQM has done. If Altaf Hussain has the blood of innocent people on his hands, then don’t you think Shareef and Bhutto and their cohorts have too? Allah knows best. This is no justification of Altaf Hussain’s actions–I dislike that guy and he’s a hypocrite. But, as I said, so is Shareef and Bhutto and I dislike those two as well.

    Just like today when everything is blamed on Muslims, during 1990s it was easy to blame every murder in Karachi on MQM because it was convenient and helped the establishment achieve its goals. Naseerullah Babar and many more generals were far worse.

    It’s not like MQM started out as a thug. AMPSO was in response to PSA at KU. It’s not like MQM decided from day one it will torture, kill, etc. It got veered off from its course by the response it received from the central government and also from the response it received from people of Karachi. One caused it to become defensive and violent while the other caused it to assume that Karachi is its baap ki zameen.

    Don’t want to start a discussion here about ethnicities because it’s useless and harmful. But, while pointing out the problems of MQM, people shouldn’t forget to point out the other side.

  34. Ali says:
    April 13th, 2007 6:30 pm

    Lets hope the few citizens that come out dont get beaten up, or their heads shaved.

    I would be scared of attending such an event, given the kind of treatment being meted out to peaceful protesters these days.

  35. Saad says:
    April 13th, 2007 6:36 pm

    The statement Khaaki or Mullah is an oxymoron. Pakistani military establishment has always been pro-Mullah. Both of them are one and the same.

  36. bhitai says:
    April 13th, 2007 7:20 pm

    Dear Dr. Najam,
    We all remember how MQM has engaged in past in bloody battles with Jamaat and Jamiat folks to gain control of Karachi’s colleges and universities. Their commitment to secularism is arguably the strongest in Paki politics (even Benazir once appointed a Sipah mullah as a minister in punjab). Religious minorities feel much safer under MQM’s umbrella than elsewhere. Of course it doesn’t mean MQM is the answer to our predicament. They are a mafia that has a rather sizable following.

  37. Abdullah H. says:
    April 13th, 2007 9:04 pm

    I would like to request Adil Najam to present the true picture. Presenting a political party’s rally as a call from the citizens of Karachi is substandard journalism.

  38. April 13th, 2007 9:42 pm

    When ever anything happens in India its the ISI who did it and whenever there is uncontrolled sectarian violence, doctors being targeted, or religious parties going up against the government its still the agency.

    The fact that there in reality is a sect of people who thinks that the majority of Pakistanis should be condemned to hell, they are willing to kill and die for what the think is religiously sanctioned, and whether the agency is behind it hardly matters. Its not like paid actors pretending to put up a fight, there are real people willing to blow themselves up and who have done so in the past.
    How can we overlook all of this for the mere argument that the agencies are behind it.

    If you’ve ever heard the ‘foot soldiers’ of these religious outfits speak their mind, they arent pretending about anything..they believe to be the sole flag bearers of Islam and view anyone not conforming or resisting as an opposition.

  39. Daktar says:
    April 13th, 2007 9:58 pm

    Why is everyone convinced that this is MQM organized. The ads do not say so, and like the original post I also wonder who is behind this.

    If it is MQM, it will lose a lot of credibility for me . BUT that will mean that this type of hooliganism is AGAIN making both the military and the failed parties more crdible. I don’t like teh military at all, but if it is between these Talibans and the military, the choice is an easy one.

    Just as the military is trying to convince people that it is only tehy who can save us from these fanatical extremist mullahs, the mullahs are also projecting themselves as if they are the only ones wh can deliver us from military rule. Both are wrong because the way to save yourself from one evil (military rule) is NOT to jump into a worse evil (Taliban style religious extremists).

  40. April 14th, 2007 12:05 am

    Actually, I find it ridiculous that MQM gets blamed for everything that happens in Karachi.

  41. Jabir Khan says:
    April 14th, 2007 3:54 am

    Confirmed…. this is MQM ad. Look at the back page of today’s (April 13) Jang. The ad also has Altaf Hussain’s photo in it.

    http://www.jang.net/jm/4-14-2007/page20.asp

  42. Jabir Khan says:
    April 14th, 2007 4:22 am

    Sorry, forgot to mention, you have to register in order to see the page on jang site.

    And Adil, I think you were a bit hasty and mullaphobia made you fell for it.

    Now what is your take after the confirmation that this ad is definitely from MQM?

    (They must be cheering wildly after having you as their party spokesman.) *sarcasm* :)

  43. Kashif says:
    April 14th, 2007 4:23 am

    Citizens of Karachi does not translate to a certain party. Also, can the organizers of this rally answer about the klashnikov culture they created in Karachi? Who is accountable for rising crime rate, injustice, social and environmental disorder in the city?

    There should be a rally by ‘citizens of karachi’ against power breakdowns, street crimes and dug up roads, as well.

  44. steve says:
    April 14th, 2007 4:37 am

    Moeen — “I still think that the mainstream population in Pakistan is not extremist. Most of the extremist in Pakistan, if not all, seem to be a failure in society as such and they get pretty good attention by joining the extremists.”

    Its still dangerous, and there’s precedent. You’ll reconsider your statement after this: If you take the Quaid, the greatest Pakistani, he started out in earnest upon what would eventually become the cause of this nation, after he did not get his way in 1921. Gandhi, the jerk, went on his non-cooperation movement against the British, opposing MAJ’s more moderate constitutional petitioning method. Unfortunately, the stupid Indian people responded to Gandhi’s anti-British call leaving MAJ high and dry in Nagpur. To me, it feels like a bit of a failure, in politics. What did he do?
    Gave up the secularist cause and used a religious one to gain power. Right or wrong, we all know thats the route he went. So how can you suggest that ‘failures in society’ are extremist *today*? Its always been the case…people achieve what they wish, in the best way they can. Fight it if you can.

  45. Saad says:
    April 14th, 2007 6:05 am

    MQM confirms that it gave the call for the rally.

    http://tinyurl.com/37xgj7

  46. jayjay says:
    April 14th, 2007 7:54 am

    It is the cause that matters — and which is the subject of this post. I am all for the rally.

    A secular fascist party is far better than a religio-fanatic one, which never entertains any rationality of views and goals. Without condoning dictatorship, I will happily live in Musharraf’s Pakistan than Mullah Omer’s Afghanistan any day.

  47. Babbi says:
    April 14th, 2007 8:44 am

    These Kalashnikov Shariat imposing people are not a religious lot, they are “RONIN” which means “LORDLESS WANDERING SAMURAIs WHO BECAME MERCENARIES IN JAPAN”.

    This is the same hapenning with these religious fighters. First they were fighting for CIA against Russian as Jehad and now when the CIA backed out, they are left with nothing and they became mercenaries and Religion was the only thing for which they had been fighting in the past, so they started using it.

    It is not Shariat or love for religion, it is only the work they have been doing and they are good at.

    Powerplay with Religion.

  48. babu says:
    April 14th, 2007 8:45 am

    fact:

    mqm is non-religious – it is head to head with MMA etc in karachi, and took voters from jamaat e islami, ppp earlier etc

    mqm is secular – like ppp – so opposes fundamentalism, talk of political shariat, etc

    mqm is language-group (roughly) ethnic nationalist even though it has changed its facade afer this was equated with anti-national distegration – so it is opposed to national nationalism of pml or ppp or mma – its rhetoric is about urdu-speakers, however much some urdu speaker cringe at that.

  49. Nazir says:
    April 14th, 2007 9:20 am

    Can those who are trying to drag us to Shariatian Utopia by Kalashnokov or danda, explain?

    1. Is a common Shariat acceptable to all sects despite each considering other kafir? If not isn’t trying to implement a single Shariat by danada will only create more fasad and cause more bloodshed? Zia tried to do that and look where we are? Haven’t we learnt our lesson yet that; to each his/her own faith?

    2. If ever we can agree on one Shariat, what would be the status of non-Muslims and “non-Muslims” under such Shariat? Wouldn’t they be treated as 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th or 10th class “citizens” depending on if they are Xtians, sikh, hindu, others or qadiani? Wouldn’t this give Islam further bad name?

  50. Nazir says:
    April 14th, 2007 9:27 am

    Here we go agian, lal masjid students implementing shariat by danda; http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/apr2007-daily/14-04-2007/up45.gif

  51. Shahid Akhtar says:
    April 14th, 2007 10:43 am

    It is ironic that Govt is prosecuting CJ but won’t go after prostitution and people selling adult movies to kids. I am happy to see someone trying to enforce these laws.

  52. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 15th, 2007 12:03 am

    Since more and more actors and singers joining MQM rather educated people[docs,engrs etc] which was a past tradition. Salma Agha managing all things of today’s rally so it would be better to rename MQM as Meerasi Qaumi Movement.

    Thankyou Altaf bhai,I hope in near future we will be able to see your live Thumkay from London.

    Apart from this,many ignorant religious questions asked by Altaf bhai, I wonder why didn’t he contact his darling religion minister Dr Amir Liaquat Hussain to learn some basics about Islam. If calling from London to “AlimOnline” is “expensive” for him then he could order some of his immoral chaps like Waseem Akhter etc to make a call from Karachi and ask the questions on behalf of Altaf bhai that whether beared is in islam or whether music is haram etc etc.

    I am sure that respected guests of Amir Liaquat and Amir himself will help his leaders to getrid of some ignorance. Infact I emailed Amir liaqat to educate his ignorant quaid a bit about Islam who is rather becoming a reason of embarassment for Mojahir community.

  53. TURAB says:
    April 15th, 2007 2:23 am

    jeaayyyy mqm!!

    i fully support this cause n stand against lal masjid ghundas…… its not even a masjid…..

  54. April 15th, 2007 5:21 am

    i don’t understand this, why didn’t we rallied against the ghunda raaj back in 90′s , when u could only pray that the person going outside his home , would return safely and not in a bori.
    why don’t we rally against the bhatta gatherers or mobile-snatchers ?

    we oppose danda bardars shariat implementor but don’t say a word against T.T bearers.

    why we are fearing from shariah in the country which is created in the name of Islam?
    Its sad that we had some bitter examples of the shariah implementation around us, but can’t we worked that out??

    I m not saying that you should join with them. there are two things regarding current shariah implementation ,their cause, and their implementations. you can object their implementaion but you shouldn’t object their cause (if its the implementation of shariah). Infact we should think about how we can contribute towards it.

  55. Nazir says:
    April 15th, 2007 6:58 am

    اپنے کیے کا کوئی علاج

    ایک بات سمجھ میں Ù†Û

  56. babu says:
    April 15th, 2007 7:03 am

    SyedFM:

    not everything titled “sharia” is sharia, especially “sharia” which is political, particularly that “sharia” which should be better tiled “backward tribal customs of this geographic region” – did you ever hear any “shariah” politician say anything about karo-kari or otherhonour killings ? – wake up – this kind of “sharia” is not what it seems – it is trying to dress up islam in barbaric clothing. beware of the mulla, zia ulhaq types, and anyone trying to bring “true” islam and true “shariat”.

  57. Nazir says:
    April 15th, 2007 8:23 am

    If Mullahs can’t agree on small things like milad or urs how can they agree on complete Shariat? If the government is to give free hand to Mullahs to implement Shariat, there would be chaos in that every side will try to bring its own particular Shariat. Political Mullahs like JI/JUI know this that a common Shariat is unachievable and therefore only use slogans like Shariat, Nifaz e Nizam Mustufa for political pressure on government. Once their demands are met they are no longer interested in pursuing this any further as they know this would cause trouble and factions within Mullah community itself. It works for government which stays in power but also for Mullahs who get best benefits from government even in the “oppositionâ€

  58. April 15th, 2007 8:23 am

    @babu ,
    you are absolutely right, that’s why i said we should work towards the cause, and do whatever we can. i m not advocating “shariah politician” but i am advocating the cause. let us show the real face of islam to the whole world. but how ? By aligning ourself ,our lives,culture and laws with islam.
    :)

  59. Nazir says:
    April 15th, 2007 9:05 am

    “real face of islam”

    Syed Faraz Mahmood: Of all the 72 or so sects whose is the real face of Islam? Problem is not real Islam but whose interpretation of it is true and how to get the rest of 71 or so sects to agree to that? None of us can go back 1400 years to see what was actually practiced then and have to rely on narrations and traditions and interpretation of these…and unfortunately there is disagreement (sometimes serious) on which of these are correct.

    Ultimately the solution is obvious and is staring right in our face as being the only viable solution after process of elimination but we being we, are for ever trying to enforce our own particular brand of Islam on others and not to solve the problem for everyone and for society as a whole. As long as we keep running in the same circle of trying to enforce our beliefs on others there would never be a solution. We must now start thinking of establishing a common set of values for the whole society to which all sections/beliefs in society agree. These common values are then implemented in Law for everyone. The remaining issues should then be implemented on individual community basis. An example of such issues is consumption of alcohol which is allowed to non-Muslims but not for Muslims. So everyone gets what they want according to their own beliefs.

  60. Nazir says:
    April 15th, 2007 9:13 am

    PS: …and governments should never get into who is a better citizen by virtue of his/her faith and instead treat all citizens equal as per these words of Quaid e Azam;

    [quote]Pointing to the way England had evolved, how there were now no Roman Catholics or Protestants in that country, only equal citizens of Great Britain, “all members of the Nationâ€

  61. Nazir says:
    April 15th, 2007 11:20 am

    Pakistan is going nowhere

    [quote]Muslim Iran wants to fence its border with Pakistan. ‘Hindu India’ wants to fence its border with Pakistan, and Pakistan wants to fence its border with Afghanistan. Why do we have to be the most fenced country on the face of the planet?[/quote]


    Going nowhere – By Dr Farrukh Saleem, The News

  62. April 15th, 2007 1:04 pm

    Is dictator more powerful than Shah of Iran? Evil doesn’t last forever. The fall of secularism in Iran.

    tinyurl.com/3cg562

    Offcourse we are the nation who doesn’t learn from past.

  63. -Farid says:
    April 15th, 2007 2:24 pm

    When you have 160 million people confined to a small place you are always going to get a variety of opinions – and you will often find these conflicting opinions close by.

    This is what gives me hope. I don’t think Pakistan will tear itself apart – there are protests and rallies and disagreements on sensitive issues around the world.

    But it also depresses me. How long before the mullahs and the politicians and the generals and indeed the people all realise and learn that one-size-fits-all will never work.

    Debate is fine. Difference of opinion is OK. Convassing for your views is great. As long as we can all stay peaceful while we do it.

  64. Jabir Khan says:
    April 15th, 2007 2:31 pm

    Is Altaf Hussain leading the rally in person?

  65. April 15th, 2007 4:40 pm

    why is everyone against the mullah? we uphold islam and are allah chosen people – saddiqi bhai you are with us – all we ask is the western culture is completely wiped from pakistan all this tv bringing filth – we are trying to save you from hell. also we don’t like to see womens faces as teir beauty kills the imam inside the mullah – we also say no to soccer because boys then run around and wear shorts – this turns some shaitans to think bad things.
    we will change pakistan – afghanistan wasn’t given chance to succeed we will now takeover pakistan bit by bit and all the quiet ones will be suprised when we declare shariat publically on radio and tv – this we do for you – we guarantee you jannat if you follow us and obey us.

  66. April 15th, 2007 5:04 pm

    Somebody is cashing islam, some body is cashing the nation…This is also a political drama:)

  67. Lahori says:
    April 15th, 2007 11:35 pm

    I wish someone other than MQM had organized this but I am glad that at least they did. Sad that our other political forces in PPP and PML do not have the conviction to take on these thugs. From the pictures it is clear that very large crowds showed up. Proves the lie of the mullahs about how the people are with them…. whoever is with them is only there because they come with dandas and beat up anyone who disagrees. This still does not make me forgive MQM for all the violence they have brought to society, but I am glad so many showed up to speakout against this ghunda gardi.

  68. baber says:
    April 16th, 2007 12:22 am

    Musharraf, Mullah and MQM they all start with an M.

  69. April 16th, 2007 12:56 am

    Jabar, no he’s afraid enough to face people on Pakistani land.

    Is this not the same Altaf who was the biggest anti of Punjabis and their misuse of power in Past? Is this not the same altaf who once chanted the slogan of Jinnah pur and recently he once again threatened about sepration. Now same altaf is being accepted by punjabis and by those who abused altaf due to his sepration movement.

    Somebody must redefine Irony. *grin*

  70. Jabir Khan says:
    April 16th, 2007 1:48 am

    Adnan, I hope MQM has no roots in other parts of the country. Tragedy is Altaf claims to be the leader of a community which is very highly educated. As soon as they are back, the crime rate has rocketed up again.

    As far as MQM’s crowds are concerned, even thousands can be gathered on the news of Altaf Bhai’s gas problem after having some daal chanaa. They are political party after all.

    The point is, the above ad is misleading at best and was not from those it claims to be from. Adil made a mistake here; he has to say something now.

  71. PatExpat says:
    April 16th, 2007 2:02 am

    I am surprised Altaf Hussain didn’t ask the maulvis that whether he should remain in self imposed exile or should come back and face the charges against him.

    He should have also asked the maulvis whether it is prudent to have a convicted criminal as a Governor of the province.

  72. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 16th, 2007 2:36 am


    Jo Quaid ka Ghaddar hey woh Maut ka Haqdaar hay

    http://www.dailyislam.com.pk/data/q4.gif

  73. Abdullah says:
    April 16th, 2007 3:27 am

    Dear Adil & others,

    I will be grateful if u read the article “Soft Image”.
    This is really nice article, which will help in understanding the historical background of problem of polarization

    Pls visit,

    http://kashifhafeez.com/mazameen.php

  74. April 16th, 2007 3:45 am

    I m really sorry for my misleading post,
    By the phrase “real face of islam” i meant to correct the world’s perception about islam. these days they use the word islam /islamist as a synonym for terror/terrorist.

    why we have a fear for islam, when we are all muslims.Instead of cursing mullahs, study islam yourself, correct them IF they are wrong. its like nursery grade kid, object a high school teacher. you might be right at some time ,but you need to have well prepared before objection.a little knowledge is more dangerous then having no knowledge at all.
    i think “jiski lathi uski behns” fit absolutely on our society. No one dares to speak about the injustice by mqm, ppp. why? everyone know that doing so will let a bullet pass across his head. the rally is an instance of the adage “ulta chor kotwal ko dante”.

    @Nazir
    you talk about differences in different sects, i think it would be wise to work on the common points. Theft,rape ,murder etc. are equally condemned in every sect.i m not an alim, so cant comment more.

  75. Nazir says:
    April 16th, 2007 3:46 am

    Abdullah tell me, are Mullah and Madrassa induced murders including those through suicide bombing worst or naach gaana? Isn’t killing innocent people and especially fellow Muslims the most horrendous of crimes equivalent to killing the whole humanity? So when you talk about soft image why ignore the hard image that Mullahs and Madrassas have created through their heinous crimes against humanity and fellow Muslims, that are not only major sins from Islamic point of view but have created a bad image for Pakistan and Islam in the eyes of the world?

    The other articles on that site are similar i.e. ignoring the extreme attitudes and acts of Mullahs and Madrassa trained terrorists and only presenting a one sided exaggerated view of the situation. I would call it the typical hypocritical attitude of Mullahs. You all it whatever you like.

  76. Jabir Khan says:
    April 16th, 2007 4:58 am

    Nazir, only cowards and hypocrits are concerened with outside opinions.

    And are you sure muslims were behind Newyork attacks?

  77. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 16th, 2007 5:12 am

    tsk tsk kitni buri baat hay. At one side you are blaming Abdullah to be a mullah while yo just demonstrated extremism by calling him a hypocrite. Ek taraf mullah ko galian dosri taraf isi mullah ko apni shadi aur janaza ko *haram* honay se bachanay k liye hire karo gey.

    Who’s hypocrite here? I would you anti-Mullah people honest enough if you don’t consult mullah for wedding and funeral cermonies.

  78. Abdullah says:
    April 16th, 2007 5:20 am

    Nazir !

    Normally, I never reply to people who are “Secular fundamentalist” but ur post is showing the fact that u didn’t read a single column in detail from that website & start backlashing.

  79. Abdullah says:
    April 16th, 2007 6:31 am

    According to BBC

    اترپردیش میں ایک انتخابی ریلی Ú©Û’ دوران کانگریس پارٹی صدر سونیا گاندھی Ú©Û’ بیٹے راÛ

  80. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 16th, 2007 7:39 am

    مجھے ڈ ر ھے کے کھین ر ا ھو ل ملا تو نھیں ؟

  81. HaqParast says:
    April 16th, 2007 8:01 am

    Altaf Hussain should have also asked the “Ulama E Haq” if there was a way to atone for the thousands of lives that he has taken. How can people still listen to this mass murderer?

  82. April 16th, 2007 10:55 am

    Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
    ‘If you don’t consult mullah for wedding and funeral cermonies’
    Thats the only thing these mullahs need to exist for. yet they delve into people private lives and have set out to destroy pakistan from within. can you honestly say even RAW or Mossad do not do this damage to Pakistan as these jumpty freaks do.
    enough with mullahism – lets stand up for pakistan.
    mullahraj murdabad – pakistan zindabad

  83. Akif Nizam says:
    April 16th, 2007 12:00 pm

    “are you sure muslims were behind Newyork attacks?”

    ….also, are you sure that the earth goes round the sun and there is no Santa Claus?

  84. Akif Nizam says:
    April 16th, 2007 12:02 pm

    “only cowards and hypocrits are concerened with outside opinions”

    thank you Jabir for endorsing the George Bush doctrine.

  85. Proud to be from Karachi says:
    April 16th, 2007 5:48 pm

    MQM or no QM, the fact is that an immense number of Pakistanis rejected the actions of these Taliban maulvis. That is great news…. look at these pictures, this is some impressive crowd. I am proud that the people from my city rose up like this.

    CLICK HERE

  86. Lahori says:
    April 17th, 2007 10:12 pm

    The everyday increase in incidence of these madrassa taliban taking police action, beating dancers, pressurizing women, threatening shopkeepers, and anyone who does they do not like is a really dangerous trend of ghundas holding country hostage.

    May all Pakistanis rise against this trend everywhere

  87. PatExpat says:
    April 16th, 2007 6:18 pm

    Proud to be from Karachi,

    I believe Chaudries can raise a similar crowd from Gujrat and neighbouring areas if they have to organize a rally.

    I do appreciate that current MQM government has done some good job but they carried the momentum from Naimatullah Khan government. When NK was opening parks, MQM used to raise voice against it that people of Karachi don’t need parks (reported extensively in newspapers) and now they themselves are opening parks. In the end its better for the citizens of Karachi so whoever does it needs to be patted on the back.

    However, where were the citizens of Karachi when MQM themselves were involved in Klashinkovs, extortion, torture cells, gunny bag bodies. Were they blind or deaf? Being a resident of North Nazimabad, I have seen whole neighbourhoods being destroyed because it was considered a big thing for kids to throw away books for guns for the greater good of Mohajirs. The Sector Incharge and Unit Incharge were known as “Terror” with the biggest “terror” commanding highest respect.

    The directionlessness of this mohajir community (a term which I consider derogatory to describe myself and my roots because I am a born and bred Pakistani with grandparents who migrated) is evident from their slogan “humein manzil nahin rahnuma chahiyay”. The karachiites don’t even know what MQM stands for anymore since they didnt object to Nawaz extending quota system for another 20 years when they were coalition members (that was the reason behind MQM creation). They would follow Altaf Hussain’s tune down the cliff.

    MQM is the biggest Klashinkov wielding political hooligans and mercenaries in Pakistan. I remember their slogans “Jo Quaid Ka Ghaddar hai, woh maut ka haqdaar hai”, when MQM boycotted the elections “vote do, maut lo” (still visible in some walls in N. Nazimabad) “crush the corrupt Pakistan Army” and “SOS – Security Our Selves”.

    I am a proud Karachiite to and proud to see part Altaf’s antics. Though Altaf’s speeches are becoming very entertaining with his various tones of voices, his singing etc.

    By the way, I could not find a Pakistan flag in those pictures- nursing delusions of Jinnahpur again.

  88. famalik says:
    April 16th, 2007 9:42 pm

    my 2 cents..

    Yes, no one should take the law in their own hands BUT having said that, how come no one has yet to come out against:

    - abundance of pornographic material being sold (I’m against any sale of pornographic material but for the sake of our secularist brothers) to under-age youth.

    - brothels being run right under the nose of the Government (I’m against ANY form of prostitution but for the sake of our secularist brothers) where women are being forced to sell their bodies and are treated as slaves.

    Why has the protection of under-age youth, from porn and women from forced-prostitution has only been left to the danda-wielding girls from the red mosque?

    How come none of the “Progressive-thinking” elite of our Capital have said even a word against this?

  89. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 17th, 2007 1:14 am

    Dear Akif Nizam,please enlighten us about “Bush Doctrine” which you just referred. Many of us are not aware of it. Will you please? Thanks.

  90. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 17th, 2007 1:27 am

    patexpat, you forget the movement against Dr.Amir Liaquat Hussain by Altaf hussain when Mush tried to bring Amir up against Altaf. MQM secteriat in London heard about this conspiracy and next day all walls were chalked with “Sirf Altaf/Only Altaf”, to tell oponents that only Altaf noone else which itself was like challenging God. Those kids who are supporting MQM should try to meet ex MQM activists personally to understand Altaf’s doctrine, many of them used to consider Altaf more than a God. Remember those stunts? appearing image of Altaf bhai on leaves and from that day he got famous as “Peer saab”. the other example of MQM terrorism is beating up singer Sajjad Ali on his song “Chief Saab”. Several MQM acitivists beat the people who usd to play the song because they believed that song was made for Altaf bhai. Offcourse nobody knows where is Zareen Majeed now who got famous for her scandal with Altaf bhai.

    There are countless stories. Altaf did have charismatic personality but unfortunately that idiot couldn’t use it for his own people. Shame on him and his Fidayeens.

  91. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 17th, 2007 1:43 am

    The secular fascism goes on . Such stunts by dictators give excuse to elements like Ghazi rasheed to use weapons against the state. Well done Mush as you are just approaching towards your end.

  92. Ismail Hussein says:
    April 18th, 2007 2:50 am

    here is the latest example of the maulvis ghunda gardi.

    Daily Times Report of IJT hooligans (CLICK)

    But this time Pakistanis are protesting against these religious ghundas
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/04/070417_jamiat_registered_sq.shtml

  93. Nazir says:
    April 17th, 2007 3:01 am

    [quote comment="43832"]Nazir !

    Normally, I never reply to people who are “Secular fundamentalist”…[/quote]

    Abdualh….what is a “Secular fundamentalist” someone who seeks justice and fairness for all, to the extreme? Can’t say I am not flattered.

    [quote]…but ur post is showing the fact that u didn’t read a single column in detail from that website & start backlashing.[/quote]

    Could you elaborate on what I have missed? Could you also elaborate why he does not mention Hudood Ordinance and how keeping the rape victims in prison under this ordinance, women were helped under the name of Islam? Its easy to blame the west but if Mullahs are supporting such laws tooth and nail then west is hardly the first thing we need to worry about.

  94. Abdullah says:
    April 17th, 2007 5:08 am

    Nazir !

    It is the basic difference, u need the liberty to say others what u want & not ready to tolerate when u received the response.

    Yes, [quote post="655"]“Justice & fairness to “ALL”[/quote]
    should be for others also. U should also condemn all those who want to spread & promote vulgarity & prostitution. Who used women in fashion shows & their dance parties. Who are promoting western culture & values in our society.

    To understand the issue of WPB, u should visit

    http://www.hudoodordinance.com here u can get enough material in Urdu & English also

  95. Abdullah says:
    April 17th, 2007 5:21 am

    There is request for another rally in Karachi,

    All those offical buildingd who are occupied by “Haqparasts’ as unit & sector offices should be free for their orignal purpose, e.g. Girls vocational Center,located at Sangam ground , block 9 of FB Area, Karachi, which is currently acting as unit office of unit 152. e.g. Community Park library in Azizabad no.02. e.g. Gardener office in T-Ground block 15 FB Area & many others, which are public property & occupied by MQM leadership.

    There is request for rally against street Crimes.

    There is request for rally regarding Balochistan issues

    There is request for rally to bring Pakistan Beharies from Bangla Desh refugee camps

  96. Waheed says:
    April 17th, 2007 10:27 am

    I LIVE IN ISLAMABAD AND THESE IDIOTS HAVE HIJACKED MY ENTIRE CITY.

    It is not only the mosque, you now found them blocking various roads for no reason. Yesterday, I found the road near another mosque in F-10 blocked with stones and some Madrassa students with sticks hit me on the back as I was on my motorcycle.

    They go around the major markets staring dangerously at girls and women trying to threaten and pressurize them. My firend saw yesterday some of them with sticks in the F-10 market staring at a group of five girls who at the end got so frightened that they left hurriedly in their car. That is what these mullahs were trying to do.

    This is really scary attack on our country.

  97. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 17th, 2007 5:33 am

    Altaf bhai off the record:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WxPsw4L3L4

    :-)

  98. PatExpat says:
    April 17th, 2007 9:06 am

    Adnan,

    Thanks for sharing that great video. But I really fear for the life of that guy.

  99. PatExpat says:
    April 17th, 2007 9:09 am

    I want to share this video with my friends but I am afraid that its propogattion could lead to the death of the guy sooner or later.

  100. Nazir says:
    April 17th, 2007 10:12 am

    [quote comment="43915"]Nazir !

    It is the basic difference, u need the liberty to say others what u want & not ready to tolerate when u received the response.[/quote]

    Abdullah what you call intolerance is what others call exchange of views and everyone’s right to disagree with your (and indeed my) views, otherwise when has anyone stopped you from saying anything? However we have a serious problem among our midst which is terrorism and as a result killing of innocent which is also a great sin in Islam. None of us should tolerate that or the perpetrators of such crimes or those who encourage them.

    [quote]Yes, [quote post="655"]“Justice & fairness to “ALL”[/quote]

    should be for others also. [/quote]

    I agree but if by others you mean Mullahs then what treatment they are getting from the rest of the society and Government is already far more than fairness. Who can advocate violence, get caught with illegal weapons, profess treason and still be based in the middle of Islamabad on government payroll with government bowed on knees in front? Only Mullahs can. Its time to curtail their “freedomâ€

  101. Akif Nizam says:
    April 17th, 2007 10:25 am

    “Dear Akif Nizam,please enlighten us about “Bush Doctrineâ€

  102. Nazir says:
    April 17th, 2007 11:16 am

    [quote comment="43917"]I LIVE IN ISLAMABAD AND THESE IDIOTS HAVE HIJACKED MY ENTIRE CITY.

    It is not only the mosque, you now found them blocking various roads for no reason. Yesterday, I found the road near another mosque in F-10 blocked with stones and some Madrassa students with sticks hit me on the back as I was on my motorcycle.[/quote]

    Is motorcycle now an un-Islamic sawaaree? May be we should get camels; now that Islamabad is being ruled by Mullah mob. But then they will find something else wrong with what we wear or do.

  103. Nazir says:
    April 17th, 2007 1:24 pm

    لاÛ

  104. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 17th, 2007 1:33 pm

    patexpat, it’s on youtube,already public.

    @Akif, thanks for telling me something very *new*. I am not going to refute or accept your theory about Bush doctrine but yes I have a question from you, is Bush a liberal or a conservative? hope you will answer me. Thanks.

  105. Nazir says:
    April 17th, 2007 2:05 pm

    منگل Ú©Ùˆ ایک اخباری کانÙ

  106. Nazir says:
    April 17th, 2007 2:07 pm

    This sort of badmaashee is exactly the reason why MQM came into being. Basically Altaf beat JI on their own game that is enforcing their views by force.

  107. Akif Nizam says:
    April 17th, 2007 2:18 pm

    “is Bush a liberal or a conservative?”

    Adnan, since a picture is worth a thousand words, see for yourself:

    http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushundercover2.htm

  108. mohammed says:
    April 17th, 2007 2:38 pm

    [quote comment="43917"]I LIVE IN ISLAMABAD AND THESE IDIOTS HAVE HIJACKED MY ENTIRE CITY.
    I found the road near another mosque in F-10 blocked with stones and some Madrassa students with sticks hit me on the back as I was on my motorcycle.
    threaten and pressurize them. My firend saw yesterday some of them with sticks in the F-10 market staring at a group of five girls who at the end got so frightened that they left hurriedly in their car. That is what these mullahs were trying to do.
    [/quote]

    The time is now for people power to begin – if these emotionally fustrated individuals begin to threaten and act out violence to people – then people have the right to defend themselves by all available means.

    I remember these monsters whipped some schoolboys in pindi because they playing soccer – and wearing shorts!

    Now we Pakistanis have no intention of wearing huge beards – having massive bellies – hating womenkind – beating up little kids – hitting our sisters and mothers.

    We are awaking – we will not let Pakistan become a MullahOmarRepublic.

    Pakistan Zindabad – Mullahraj Murdabad!

  109. Nazir says:
    April 17th, 2007 4:33 pm

    Bulay, bulay…

    Altaf hussein is coming…

  110. Nazir says:
    April 17th, 2007 4:35 pm
  111. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 18th, 2007 1:08 am

    Dear Akif I want to know your opinion. The picture reflects that Bush is conservative. Do you agree with that? pplease answer in Yes or no. Thanks.

  112. Abdullah says:
    April 18th, 2007 2:41 am

    Adnan Bhai ! All evidences proves that Bush is conservative & struggling to establish his ideology.

    Here, ‘some people’ are worry about day to day increase in *extremism*. We are also worried due to day to day increase extremism in vulgarity, lewdness, filthiness, coarseness, profanity & nudity in our society through media, I understand that Navy build the Baharya auditorium on the basis of our taxes, just to arrange & organize ‘Majray’ on the name of fun-mela. Dances & music are not the part of our religion, but if some one interested to live on above the boundaries of religion it is his deed.

    Read a very interesting column about Rally, as MQM has imposed the censorship & put it pressure for coverage, this column is beacon light

    http://www.ummat.com.pk/sailani.htm

  113. Abdullah says:
    April 18th, 2007 3:24 am

    Dear Mr. Ismail.

    PU VC allowing musical festival where students comes to learn on the other hand he ban the bookfair in versity campus which is used to be largest in Lahore in a year

  114. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 18th, 2007 3:31 am

    Abdullah sahab, I want to know the answer of our respected liberal Akif Nizam that what does he think about him.

  115. Abdullah says:
    April 18th, 2007 3:59 am

    Here the actual militant face of Lt.general (R) Arshad Hussain in PU,

    According to Nation,
    http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/june-2006/4/letters4.php

    [quote post="655"]This year, the university administration announced another book fair in competition with the one by students and the participation of a student organisation in it was rigorously condemned. In this way, the book fair took place in a condition of disturbance, horror and atmosphere of constriction that left behind it a question of melancholy.
    Will in this age of ‘enlightenment’ and ‘moderation’, every positive, healthy and admirable activity be stopped due to administrative narrow mindedness and group interests?
    The PU students maintained their tradition of holding their annual book fair this year as well and did so under the supervision of their respected teachers. Due to the meddlesome intervention of the Punjab Governor and the Vice-Chancellor’s disability to protect his campus, this book fair was converted into ‘police fair’. Police misbehaved with the female students and filched their purses[/quote]
    .
    According to Dawn,

    http://www.dawn.com/2005/05/10/nat11.htm

    See the fear of Jihad by Daily Times, as talking about Jihad is objectionable thing in Pakistan

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C01%5C26%5Cstory_26-1-2007_pg13_9

  116. Nazir says:
    April 18th, 2007 7:25 am

    [quote comment="43993"]Dear Mr. Ismail.

    PU VC allowing musical festival where students comes to learn on the other hand he ban the bookfair in versity campus which is used to be largest in Lahore in a year[/quote]

    Abdullah, this so called “bookfair” was nothing but an excuse for JI/IJT to exert their power onto university admin and students. The current administration has taken a stand by holding such activities themselves as it should be so everything is politically neutral and not dominated by a badmaash organisation like “Islamiâ€

  117. Nazir says:
    April 18th, 2007 7:50 am

    [quote comment="43993"]

    PU VC allowing musical festival where students comes to learn [/quote]

    Abduallah, I doubt students come to PU to be bombarded by bricks and bottles by Jamaati ghundays either. But you don’t seem to have any problem with that?

    Given the chance between listening to Music or being hit by bottles and bricks, I will gladly choose music and I suspect everyone else would too. What would you choose?

    Terrorism like this by Jamaatis makes it abundantly clear how much these ghunday really care for Islam and Islamic values. As soon as their dominance is threatened, out goes Islam and in comes gundaghurdee. The use of word Islam is just to attain power.

  118. Nazir says:
    April 18th, 2007 7:57 am

    [quote comment="43992"] I understand that Navy build the Baharya auditorium on the basis of our taxes, just to arrange & organize ‘Majray’ on the name of fun-mela. [/quote]

    Abduallah, your tax money went to pay for salary of lal masjid Mullahs so use of your tax money shouldn’t worry you.

  119. Babbi says:
    April 18th, 2007 8:59 am

    Protest to condemn Kalashnikov Shariat etc is right besides the point that MQM did it for some political reason or not.

    I must say that only MQM has got the guts to take a stand against Mullahs because whereas all other parties fear themselves to be declared Kafirs and try to be somewhat careful in condemning religious zealots.

    I agree 100% with Nazir and probably the best quote:

    “As soon as their dominance is threatened, out goes Islam and in comes gundaghurdee. The use of word Islam is just to attain power”

  120. Akif Nizam says:
    April 18th, 2007 9:30 am

    Adnaan, yes Bush is a conservative; it’s not like there are two opinions about it. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, claims to be a duck, then it’s a duck.

  121. Ismail Hussein says:
    April 18th, 2007 4:09 pm

    “PU VC allowing musical festival where students comes to learn on the other hand he ban the bookfair in versity campus which is used to be largest in Lahore in a year”

    Abdullah Saheb, I do not know what reasons the VC would give for not allowing a book fair, but I agree with you that a university shoudl be encouraging book fairs (but this is the same VC who gives promotions to plagiarists).

    What I cannot understand in your message (and please help me here) is how this is linked to IJT people beating up and harrassing those at the music festival. Are you suggesting that because the book fair was not allowed therefore it is OK to go and beat up people at a music festival?

    Is their love of books so great that being kept away from books forces them to do so? Or, maybe, these IJT mullahs are also like the madman in USA who opened fire in a Univeristy?

  122. Zahra M. says:
    April 18th, 2007 11:20 pm

    Another citizens rally against Mullah Raj today:

    PEACEFUL RALLY

    Twenty-odd years ago, a self-serving version of religion
    was imposed without consensus on this country
    to justify unilateral one-man rule
    that divested us, especially women, of our fundamental rights.

    Then, the WOMEN’s ACTION FORUM was the lone voice of protest
    to speak up for a long time while secular political parties
    were forced to go underground.

    Despite occasional attempts at democracy and secularity,
    we are back today to square one.

    The freedom to worship in accordance with our personal beliefs
    and conscience is once more threatened.

    We call on all like-minded citizens and groups who wish to
    retain this right, irrespective of faith or religious school of thought
    or other ideology, to join

    THE WOMEN’S ACTION FORUM
    AND
    THE JOINT ACTION COMMITTEE
    (coalition of non-partisan civil society organisations and
    women’s and human rights groups)

    at a peaceful rally on Thursday, 19th April 2007, at 4 pm.
    at the main gate of Quaid-e-azam’s Mazaar, to assert our rights.

  123. mullah jat! says:
    April 18th, 2007 1:33 pm

    can someone point out who is organising the ‘stand up to mullahraj’ event? i need to start emailing people and letting them know.

  124. Nazir says:
    April 18th, 2007 4:25 pm

    A comment from BBC Urdu and response;

    پنجاب يونيورسٹی ميں’انتÛ

  125. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 19th, 2007 12:35 am

    Thanks Akif Sahab for your response. Now can you enlighten me further what do you think about Mr.Musharraf,our darling President? whether he’s a conservative or liberal?

    what I think about him is not a hidden secret but since I am personally asking you, I would appreciate if you share your thoughts about Musharraf. Thanks.

  126. Abdullah says:
    April 19th, 2007 4:37 am

    Mullaraj kai khilaf “Chichora raj” ko jalsee

  127. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 19th, 2007 7:34 am

    Zahra M,

    what was your WAF doing when a 16 yrs old girl of Obarho village was forced to walk naked in mohallah after gang rape?

    What was your WAF doing when mothers and sistersof missing people were being beaten up by the secular and liberal govt?

    Where did your WAF get hibernated when Dr.Shazia of Balochistan was raped?

    What was your WAF doing when Gen.Hameed Gul’s daughter was misbehaved by state Ghundas?

    WAF like NGOs/orgs are sissy enough to do drawing room politics only in chilled AC environment. Their leaders don’t get courage to speak when women actually get suffered. Such gang of goons are nothing but bunch of whiney babes.

  128. Akif Nizam says:
    April 19th, 2007 10:21 am

    Adnan, I think that in the context of the Pakistani society and on a personal level, Musharraf is liberal; on the other hand, most of his govt’s policies are not. In any case, what’s considered liberal and what’s not is a subjective matter based on one’s reference point. It’s as pointless a discussion as any.

  129. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 19th, 2007 12:53 pm

    Akif, the whole discussion started after you brought Bush Doctrine in Middle so I wanted to know what’s your opinion about two visible leaders of the world, Bush & Mush. You said Mush’s policies don’t sound liberal while majority of his policies DO appear a part of his liberal agenda which is even admitted by resident liberals of this forum. I am surprised what *odd* you found in his policies which doesn’t appear liberal to you while he always preach Pakistanis to give vote to liberal and enlightened managment.

  130. Nazir says:
    April 19th, 2007 1:39 pm

    جامعÛ

  131. Akif Nizam says:
    April 19th, 2007 2:09 pm

    Adnan, you are confusing speech with policy. Mush has not put any policy which can be termed liberal (other than perhaps more freedom for the press than was previously allowed); he has made several speeches which can be termed liberal. We have had this discussion already; the reason why liberals seem to embrace Mush is because he is the lone voice that at least sounds like them. However, this voice has not translated into actions and hope is running low.

    Secondly, I didn’t bring Bush Doctrine into the discussion per se. It was just a comment I made because what Jabir said sounded eerily familiar: the Bush strategy of equating his criticism with cowardice and treason. Please let it go now.

  132. Nazir says:
    April 19th, 2007 2:22 pm

    جامعÛ

  133. Ubaid says:
    April 19th, 2007 5:03 pm

    Much as I have been depressed about Pakistan I am also encouraged…. on teh negative side you see the craziness of teh CJ removal and these idiot mullahs at Lal Masjid and their criminal behavior…. but on teh other hand you actually have people rising, both the political types and the citizen groups… I hope ordinary paistani will rise everywhere and show teh mullahs that we are not going to be cowed down by the danda brigade…. the WAF and these citizens groups have again made all of us Pakistanis proud.

  134. Nazir says:
    April 19th, 2007 3:17 pm
  135. Maulana Pakistani says:
    April 20th, 2007 12:53 am

    I wish Musharraf was actually a Liberal. If he really was liberal he would not be supporting the mullahs and they woudl not be supporting him through these topi dramas like the Hafsa thing. If he really was liberal he would have totally discarded the Hudood Ordinance. He he really was liberal he would not have be this close to MMAs. If he really was liberal he would not have allowed the rise of the Taliban. He is really was liberal he would have actually stopped the criminal behavior of the Lal Masjid hooligans. If he really was liberal the CJ affair would never have happened since a central tenet of liberalism is respect for institutions. I wish we really had a ral liberal leader. What we have is General Maulana Pervez Musharraf.

  136. Samdani says:
    April 20th, 2007 12:13 am

    From DAWN today the story of protests in all part of the country against Taliban maulvis is very heartening. Great photo too:
    http://dawn.com/2007/04/20/top3.htm

    It is about protests in ISLAMABAD, LAHORE, KARACHI, and PESHAWAR

  137. Abdullah says:
    April 20th, 2007 12:30 am

    [quote post="655"]WAF and these citizens groups have again made all of us Pakistanis proud. [/quote]
    WAF show was nothing more than a political show of PPP & ML-Q,

    What is the opinion abour Asma jahangir slogans?

    [quote post="655"]Main nachoon gee, main gaoon gee[/quote]

    http://ejang.jang.com.pk/jm/4-20-2007/page20.asp

    The women in the picture wearing trouser & shirt representing Pakistani women? Nopes

  138. Abdullah says:
    April 20th, 2007 12:40 am

    [quote post="655"]Kehta hoon such kai jhoot kee aadat naheen mujhay :)[/quote]

    راستے میں انسانی حقوق کمیشن Ú©ÛŒ چیئرپرسن عاصمÛ

  139. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 20th, 2007 12:46 am

    Akif, a person who is president and speaks everytime about Liberalism and even demonstrates it with his actions, How can such person don’t appear Liberal to you. He is liberal thatswhy he promotes liberalism. There are reasons which make him to admire Ataturk

    Let me ask you a straight question, Does Musharraf want to promote Liberal agenda in this country? answer in yes or no please.

    You also didn’t answer what policies of Mushrraf doesn’t sound liberal to you?

    Can’t you just answer in yes or no?

  140. Samdani says:
    April 20th, 2007 12:46 am

    Yes, dance and song are very much a part and an important part of PAKISTANI culture. Did you hear the great song by Asad Amanat Ali on this site PIYAR NAHIN HAI SUR SAY JIS KO WOH MORAT INSAN NAHIN.

    Good to see other political parties also joining the protests. They are political parties and when it becomes clear to them what the people want then they repeat it. Good for them.

    And since when is wearing trousers anti-Pakistan. I agree with Ubaid, these citizen groups have made all of us Pakistanis proud.

  141. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 20th, 2007 12:58 am

    Regardless of what’s our culture, that aged woman should think first how would she look when she dances.  :-)

  142. Akif Nizam says:
    April 20th, 2007 1:47 am

    “Can’t you just answer in yes or no? ”

    Adnan, don’t you know by now that liberals don’t give out yes or no answers. We don’t live in a black and white world like yours. Ours is a careful existence where we tread cautiously so as not to step on others’ feet.

    As for Mush, I already said that i think he’s liberal (relatively speaking). Which part of that do you want me to repeat? However, an over-emphasis on military strength, a lack of adequate modern education, an over-reliance on madrasas, a lack of adequete health care, indirect taxation, coddling of the theocrats, a lack of progress for women’s rights through education and legislation; all these go against the grain of a self-proclaimed liberal administration. It’s a paradox of monumental proportions.

    And as for “that aged woman should think first how would she look when she dances”, the correct answer is that “no, she shouldn’t”. Haven’t you heard that one should dance like no one else is watching ?

  143. Abdullah says:
    April 20th, 2007 2:10 am

    Samdani

  144. Abdullah says:
    April 20th, 2007 2:20 am

    Samdani,

    [quote post="655"]Yes, dance and song are very much a part and an important part of PAKISTANI culture. [/quote]

    My culture is associated with PBUH culture where muaic & dances are not allowed

    [quote post="655"]Did you hear the great song by Asad Amanat Ali on this site PIYAR NAHIN HAI SUR SAY JIS KO WOH MORAT INSAN NAHIN[/quote]

    I hear & read just one thing

    [quote post="655"]Going strictly by the text of the Qur’an, for me the term lahv al-hadith appearing in verse 6 of chapter 31 (Luqmaan) is sufficient to believe that God forbids music among other, as well. The words lahv al-hadith imply such a thing as may allure and absorb a listener completely and make him heedless of everything else around him[/quote]

  145. Samdani says:
    April 20th, 2007 2:34 am

    Abdullah, my friend, I promise not to impose my view of what is appropriate Pakistani culture on you, if you promise not to impose yours on mine.

    May we all live in peace and with tolerance for those we do not agree with.

  146. Abdullah says:
    April 20th, 2007 2:36 am

    The fact on which I always believe,

    اگر Û

  147. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 20th, 2007 2:39 am

    In other words liberals are people who can’t speak to the point?

    lack of adequate modern education, an over-reliance on madrasas, a lack of adequete health care, indirect taxation, coddling of the theocrats, a lack of progress for women’s rights through education and legislation; all these go against the grain of a self-proclaimed liberal administration.

    Seems you live in some other world. WPB,Change of syllabus,demolishing mosques, imposing Basant, baised towards “Liberal forces”, Killing Pakistans in Northern areas in name of Talibans, allowing Americans to kill “jehadists” etc etc etc. If changing syllabus by removing Quranic verses is not part of “imporvements” in education, if making new law[WPB] is not an example of legislation then I think of us needs to make a read of politics 101.

  148. Abdullah says:
    April 20th, 2007 2:44 am

    Dear brother Samdani !

    I am not trying to put my views on others, u have equal right like me to disagree & present ur point of view & equally I have, its just the exchange of idea, but but some people start insulting others,it should stop.

    Pls read the article [quote post="655"]“Hikmat kee zaroorat[/quote]
    ” my approach is like this, where author support Islam but not the act of Lal Masjid but also condemn NGO’s wish to convert LM into Golden tempal

  149. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 20th, 2007 2:44 am

    Samdani, if we had to promote Dance culture in Pakistan then does it not sound stupid that Jinnah and his other chaps made too many efforts to get a separate land? I think we had more rich dance culture in India than Pakistan.

  150. Abdullah says:
    April 20th, 2007 2:46 am

    Sorry I missed the link

    http://kashifhafeez.com/mazameen.php

  151. Abdullah says:
    April 20th, 2007 2:49 am

    Maulana Pakistani, Don’t use the title for ur own perception, its just the insulting. self centered supremecy approach. Read,

    “ÛŒÛ

  152. Lahori says:
    April 21st, 2007 12:23 am

    The battle is really on.

    Saw this in Daily Times today:

    “Students of a Madrassa near Kasur detained three Geo television employees on Friday when they were spotted filming the madrassa following complaints of two missing students. The detainees were later released at the intervention of police, Geo television reported. The channel reported that Shaharyar and cameraman Irfan were filming the Jamia Rahimia in Jhamabar for a story involving two missing girl students from the madrassa. Male students, seeing the reporter, came outside and snatched the camera from Rasheed. They forced the two and their driver into the madrassa and tortured them. The channel contacted police who obtained their release and directed the channel to obtain police protection before filming madrassas”

  153. PAKISTANI says:
    April 20th, 2007 6:18 am

    bay-chara Quaid i Azam, bewaqoofoun ki behas mein phir phas gaya. pashtata ho ga, mulk bana kar!

  154. Saif says:
    April 20th, 2007 5:38 am

    [quote] “if we had to promote Dance culture in Pakistan then does it not sound stupid that Jinnah and his other chaps made too many efforts to get a separate land? I think we had more rich dance culture in India than Pakistan.[/quote]

    Adnan Siddiqui,

    It is silly argument, but let me turn around the same argument on its head and ask you this question: If our objective was just to be able to pray, fast and grow beards freely, couldn’t we do that in India? Why did we have to have a separate country?

  155. Nazir says:
    April 20th, 2007 5:45 am

    [quote comment="44215"]Sorry I missed the link

    http://kashifhafeez.com/mazameen.php/quote

    Abduallah, with all due respect can you even think for yourself instead of giving references to other sites all the time? I have answered your last link and also posed other questions and you haven to been able to answer any. While someone else may say you have run away I would very politely (purely out of respect for ATP) say you have avoided the questions. Once again..Which one is a bigger sin; a) naach gaan or b) mullah induced murder of the innocent such as those via suicide bombings? What about fasaad which is even bigger sin than murder? Do you ever condemn Mullahs for their wrong doings and much bigger crimes than naach gaana? If not what does that make you? Certainly not an honest person.

  156. Abdullah says:
    April 20th, 2007 6:12 am

    Dear Nazir

    I am against all the ‘extremism’ Liberal or relegious.
    Yes, u r right no one can support the sueside bomb attack on Masajid & Madressas or in public places where innocent people lost their lives, There is no link with Islam. W.R.T. Lal masjid & Jamia Hafsa, it is non issue, it is an effort to diver the public attention from CJ case & divide the nation. It is an effort to put Mush case in America to support him, it may be used as launching pad of BB. Qaari Hanif of Wafaqul Madaris clearly said that demand is correct but method is wrong. In the given link the same thing is expressed.

    But, what NGOs want, they want to make another Golden temple in Islamabad. Can u support Asima with her slogan? if ur answer is yes, then keep in mind it can never be happened in Pakistan (Inshallah)

    The definition of “Fasad” is just that any approcah other than Islamic perspective is Fasad fil arz

  157. April 20th, 2007 6:49 am

    mullah raj must be stopped in its tracks – whoever – WHOEVER – stands up to the mullah who now is infecting the capital – we need to stand with – up to these mullahs.

    its clear cut to me – and probably most pakistanis – you have one side that doesn’t use religion to attack others and use as a tool to brainwash people and the other side which uses religion for all kinds of powercrazed and antistate antiislam stuff.

    i don’t like the ppp or mqm or in fact any politicians or mullahs – but its in the NATIONAL INTEREST TO STAND UP TO THE MULLAHRAJ.

    We need to have an across the board demonstration by citizens of Pakistan against this evil of mullahism – this is more of a threat to the existance let alone the progress of pakistan then anything else.

    Pakistan was not created for the crazed mullah. It is time Pakistanis stood up shoulder to shoulder to be counted, only in numbers can we defeat this threat to the nation and its youth.

    Lets join forces and Demonstrate against mullahism.

    Pakistan Zindabad, Mullahraj Murdabad!

  158. DISGUSTED says:
    April 22nd, 2007 2:45 pm

    I am sure people have already seen this video clip making the rounds over email. Young children and burqa clad women areshown beheading a bearded man and chanting Allahu Akbar. BE WARNED, IT IS VERY GRAPHIC.

    This is what we are up against. These protests take on new meaning after watching this. Rise everyone, otherwise this is where these Madrassa Taliban want to take you.

    I agree with the man at the end of the video, this is not about Islam and Muslims. THESE TALIBAN ARE THE REAL KAFIRS.

  159. Musalman says:
    April 20th, 2007 8:32 am

    Assalamu Alaikum

    I think what the students of Lal Masjid and Hafsa Jamia have done is really bad. It is also unislamic.

    But I am very disappointed in this discussion. You are talking as if they are the real representative of Islam and what they do is right Islam. Those who are liberal are using this to make all religious people look bad. And those who are religious by defending them are also making all religious people look bad.

    Let us all who are Muslims please unite and rally against these people in Lal Masjid but for Islam that is peaceful and tolerant.

    Thank You.

  160. Ismail Hussein says:
    April 22nd, 2007 3:42 pm

    Dear Disgusted, I am also disgusted. The link is here. And yes it is very graphic so watch at your own risk.

    It is about a 12 year old boy beheading a man. It comes from an Associated Press news item.

    Like you I think this is time for all of us Muslims to rise against such things and join the old man in the video is condemning the actions of these Taliban and in making clear that this is NOT Islam and these madrassa Talibans are the real Kafirs.
    By the way, I am glad people are rising against these things and condemning them. I thought that the editorial on this in THE NEWS today is very good.

    ———–

    One is absolutely shocked at the details of a video acquired by the Associated Press Television News which shows a Pakistani boy, dressed as an Islamic militant, slaughtering a man. The footage which AP said it obtained from Peshawar shows a boy whom the news agency described as a “baby-faced” boy who was “barely twelve years old”. He spoke in a high-pitched voice, calling a tied and blindfolded man held before him as an American spy. The video then shows the boy literally cutting the man’s throat as he is held by older men, all dressed in military fatigues. The shot then shows the boy hacking at the man’s throat till he is decapitated. Amid cries of “God is great”, the boy then holds the man’s head by the hair, telling the camera that others who spy for America will meet the same fate. The man who is killed in this most gruesome manner was a militant himself but accused by his killers of betraying a senior Taliban official who was killed in an air strike in Afghanistan last December. (The reference must be to Mullah Akhtar Mohammad Usmani, a senior associate of Mullah Omar, who was killed at around the same time by a US air strike in Helmand province).

    The name of the Taliban’s top commander in southern Afghanistan, Mullah Dadullah, is also mentioned in the video. Besides this, AP said that songs praising Mullah Omar and Osama Bin Laden (who is referred to as “Sheikh Osama”) can also be heard. A voice-over in Pashtu also identifies the dead man and his village, in Balochistan. Apparently, this video is widely available in the bazaars of NWFP and Balochistan and an AP reporter said it was even available in the dead man’s village. It has to be said that this isn’t the first time that an alleged spy has been killed in this manner by militants who by their actions seem to be very-much pro-Taliban. The headless bodies of numerous such ‘spies’ have been found in parts of FATA in recent months, as fighting between government forces, and now government-backed militants, and foreign militants rages on. However, this is perhaps the first time that a video of the beheading has been circulated and with such a young executioner.

    The news agency has also claimed that its reporter who visited the executed man’s village in Balochistan met his father who had no qualms about admitting that his son was a Taliban supporter, had fought the Northern Alliance in the past, had arranged for the medical treatment of injured Taliban survivors and had provided shelter to both Mullah Osmani and Dadullah. Of course, all of this is vehemently denied by the Pakistan government, which has also dismissed reports of Mullah Dadullah being involved in the peace deal brokered last year in Waziristan. The gruesome and savage nature of this particular execution clearly suggests that those who claim to do such acts in defence of their religion are shamelessly indulging in falsehoods themselves. No religion condones such acts, least of all committed by a child, which as one expert has said may constitute a war crime in itself. Whosoever claims that this is being done to further the glory of religion is in fact guilty of doing great disservice to their faith and must be roundly condemned.

  161. April 20th, 2007 4:08 pm

    Readers are again requested to keep discussions on topic and maybe take their personal dialogue on unrelated issues to personal email communication. Thank you.

  162. Afshaan says:
    April 22nd, 2007 3:34 pm

    Adnan Siddiqi. Why do you constantly lie about people and make things up that no one ever said. I note above you also did this with other people above.

    1-Where have I “praised” a murderer (I think you mean MQM)? READ what I wrote I am calling them ghundas. I am praising the act of condemning evil. Does an ‘evil’ act (acts of Lal Masjid mulahs) become ‘good’ just because someone else who is bad is condemning it.

    2-Where did I say that I “hate” anyone? Or do you consider yourself God and know what is in people’s hearts?

    3-And speaking of false accusations without proof. Do you have personal experience or proof of the supposed activities of this ‘Aunty Shamim’ that you keep repeating accusations about her by name? Or is it OK to make a tamasaha of someone’s izzat just because she is a woman?

    I just don’t know why ATP lets you spread hatred and lies about everyone else and misquote people and make up stories all the time!

  163. Afshaan says:
    April 22nd, 2007 3:01 am

    Let us please realize that most religious parties and people in Pakistan do NOT support the actions of Lal Masjid people. These are the actions of extremists and not of Muslims. I cannot understand how people here on this forum (supposedly educated) are defending the actions of these extremists.

  164. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 21st, 2007 2:22 am

    Saif, if my answer was silly then question was more sillier.

    Saif, you should have asked this question from Allama, Jinnah and others who did realize tht Muslims are not being able to lead life according to their religion. I would love to see the texts by Jinnah or Allama where they said that they needed a country so that they can promote dance culture. Do try to make some sense before making an argument. even a layman know the reason for the creation of Pakistan but not liberals who lives in fools paradise and believe that Pakistan was all created for “THEM”.

  165. saif says:
    April 21st, 2007 3:14 am

    [quote]“you should have asked this question from Allama, Jinnah and others…”[/quote]

    Adnan,

    I did ask the Allama and his answer was: “Deen-e-mullah fi-sabeelillah fasaad”

    Wa maa alaina illal balaagh
    Saif

  166. saeed says:
    April 21st, 2007 5:58 am

    I did ask the Allama and his answer was: “Deen-e-mullah fi-sabeelillah fasaadâ€

  167. observer says:
    April 21st, 2007 6:14 am

    ‘Proud to be from Karachi’ has posted a link to the pictures of MQM rally held recently in Karachi apparently to protest against ‘klashinkov’ shariat. As regards to huge crowds there is no denying that MQM has capability of mobilising massive crowds and particularly in these times when once indicted terrorist is Governor of the state and their man is Nazim and utilised public resources for the glory of their leader.

    MQM chief addressed the crowd from his throne in the ‘International Secretariat’ in London. I had never heard him before. I was focused on the events shown on Geo TV and ARYone TV related to the Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry but then suddenly these channels switched to the address to the rally by firebrand leader. I was unimpressed by his speech partly because he was throwing the dust in the eyes of the people by uttering words like ‘we do not want klashinkov shariat’ and partly by his comical and hysterical outbursts. He tried to portray himslef as an scholar of Islam and was blubbering when reciting holy Quran.

    Travel back a little distance in the memory lane when this man was an ally of the then late Jam Sadiq Ali. He held and is still holding Karachi at ransom. No one dares to refuse to pay contribution to his thugs. No media dares to not to give ‘due coverage’ to him and his representatives.

    He was shouting against klashinkov culture but he was the one who advised his followers to sell the video and buy klashinkov.

    I sincerely hope that the media in Pakistan gather courage to expose this man’s hypocrisies. He is like a Fuehrer.

  168. Nazir says:
    April 21st, 2007 7:03 am

    Molvis turning on each other?

    Ù

  169. saif says:
    April 21st, 2007 7:50 am

    The slogan I liked the best in Thursday’s rallies by the civil society groups against “kalshnikov Shariat” was:

    [quote]Mullahgardi nahin chalay gi, nahin chalay gi[/quote]

  170. saif says:
    April 21st, 2007 8:00 am

    Actually,it went like this. One person would shout:

    [quote]Ghundagardi nahin chalay gi, nahin chalay gi[/quote]

    And the crowd would respond with:

    [quote]Mullahgardi nahin chalay gi, nahin chalay gi[/quote]

    It created such a rhythm that that even Adnan Siddiqi would have danced with it if he were there.

  171. PatExpat says:
    April 21st, 2007 8:06 am

    Altaf Hussain’s profound speech

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WxPsw4L3L4

  172. mohammed says:
    April 21st, 2007 5:38 pm

    This should ba an opportunity for all of us to put aside our differences and collectively demonstrate against Mullahism and its desire to have a Mullahraj in Pakistan.

    Already we have witnessed the paradise on earth that mullahism brought Afghanistan under the taliban.

    We the silent majority of Pakistanis will not be silent anymore – we must unite – put away our differences for our nations interest – TOGETHER WE MUST GET OUT AND DEMONSTRATE!

    Lets lead Pakistanis by uniting to defeat the threat to Pakistan of these Mullahs – enough is enough!

    Lets Unite, Lets protect our Faith, Lets be Disciplined in our approach,

    MULLAHRAJ MURDABAD – PAKISTAN ZINDABAD!

  173. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 22nd, 2007 1:49 am

    Saif,

    The next informed Allama told me that he fooled liberals and likewise while he actually believe in:

    Ki MUhammad[saw] se wafa tuney tu hum teray hain
    Ye Jahan Cheez hay kia Loh-e-Qalam teray hain

  174. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 22nd, 2007 1:54 am

    PatExpat: I am sure you would have noticed the Damadam Mast Qalander by leader of Meerasi Qomi Movement Altaf Hussain :-)

    Asima Jehangir says “Mey nachou gi , mey gaoun gi” while altaf sings “Dama dam mast qalander”.

    these tin soldiers[secularist/liberals]are sure great sources of entertainment and true guardian of Pakistani Meerasiat. this is why our samdani bhai believes human to those who loves Music, as he gave fatwa that the real Islam is very violent as it doesn’t support music :-)

  175. Samdani says:
    April 22nd, 2007 2:19 am

    Mr. Siddiqui, can you please tell me where I said that “real Islam is very violent as it doesn’t support music”?

  176. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 22nd, 2007 2:30 am

    Samdani bhai was that not you who replying Abdullah by repeating asad’s song “pyar nahi…..”? which means you agree with it? :-)

    When you agre with this then you would also have idea about status of Music within Islam? Hope you got my point. =)

  177. Speak Up says:
    April 22nd, 2007 1:37 pm

    The only good thing that has come out of this is that the most extreme voices are no longer accepted as the spokesmen for Islam and people everywhere are distncing themselves from their views.

    I agree with others that this is the time for religious as well as liberal people to come together against extreme views like this.

    I am very pleased to see such large crowds from all sections of society coming together to speak up

  178. saif says:
    April 22nd, 2007 2:40 am

    Adnan Sahib,

    You are right. Being anti-liberal doesn’t make one necessarily a mullah. Mullahs are usually identified by three Fs. Foul smell, foul language and I won’t mention the third F, for it might violate the ATP comment policy.

  179. Sirat-e-Mustaqeem says:
    April 24th, 2007 11:18 pm

    I have recently discovered this website and I absolutely love it.

    Thank you ATP, not only for the very insightful and educational posts but even more because in the comments section we actually get to hear from the  Lal Masjid Talibans and we get an insight into the deranged and hateful minds that produce such senseless violence and is high-jacking Islam. While readings the comments of your Taliban readers is really scary sometimes, it is also educational because it shows exactly what type of people and hate we are up against.

    May Allah keep us safe from this maullahs who are the true enemies of Islam. Ameen.

  180. Samdani says:
    April 22nd, 2007 2:43 am

    No, Mr. Siddiqui, I am afriad I do not understand your point at all.

    The song does not mention anywhere that “real Islam is very violent as it doesn’t support musicâ€

  181. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 22nd, 2007 2:47 am

    Thanks saif for giving your fatwa. I congratulate you to join the right wing cabal:-)

    ———-

    I wonder what would our inhouse liberal say about Musharraf’s offer[tinyurl.com/39fksy] to visit Israel[right Jews Mullahs] to resolve the issue? Would they condemn the offer of Musharraf because he’s willing to talk with right wing zions? If there is no hypocrisy then they should condemn such talks.

    At one side our secular president feel irks to talk right wing people of Pakistan and threatened them to kill by firing missiles while on other hand he’s ready to meet right wing extreemist of other country. Do I feel hypocrisy right here?

    and I liked the response of the isareli reader:


    “Musharraf – go and set your peace records correct with India before you offer it for Mid-East. Funny a guy who pats Iran, licks Osama, swears friendship with Syria – exports terror to Kashmir is offering peace. Did I forget to say he sounds like Gaddafi?”

    These macho liberals/seculars are real reason to embarass pakistan in western community as they give reason to defame Pakistan by their silly tactics.

  182. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 22nd, 2007 6:55 am

    Saif, foul language really? Look who’s talking here. It means the foul language used by anti mullah cabal is part of educated which they give to their kids? Stop bullying and before condeming others, try to fix people of your own tribe.

  183. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 22nd, 2007 7:02 am


    I cannot understand how people here on this forum (supposedly educated) are defending the actions of these extremists.

    You mean action of extremist altaf bhai who is responsible of killing of his own party people and several other young karachiites? Yes I am also unable how these enlightened souls are favoring such ghunda people.

  184. mohammed says:
    April 22nd, 2007 7:10 am

    [quote comment="44307"]Let us please realize that most religious parties and people in Pakistan do NOT support the actions of Lal Masjid people. These are the actions of extremists and not of Muslims. I cannot understand how people here on this forum (supposedly educated) are defending the actions of these extremists.[/quote]

    Indeed you are correct, this is the reason that the silent majority of Pakistan need to come out in force and demonstrate against mullahism and mullahraj.

    This is an opportunity for all of us – to work for our national interest Pakistan, put aside any differences and strike out for Pakistan, for too long we have waited for others to take the lead in fighting for our nations reputation both in Pakistan and Internationally.

    We need to prove it to ourselves and our people as well as our freinds and enemies internationally – and the foul mouthed – rabid attitute mullah who doesn’t even know the meaning of the Qur’an and it wants to take over Pakistan – we have seen the paradise they created in Afghanistan – we need to show all that we are Pakistanis – we are awake – and we are able to stand united against this threat!

    Pakistan Zindabad – Mullahraj Murdabad!

  185. Afshaan says:
    April 22nd, 2007 1:48 pm

    “You mean action of extremist altaf bhai who is responsible of killing of his own party people and several other young karachiites? Yes I am also unable how these enlightened souls are favoring such ghunda people.”

    Adnan Siddiqi. No, I don’t see anyone here at all defending the violence of the MQM. I have just read comments again and not a single person is doing that.

    What surprises me is people defending the actions of the Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa in this and other posts. I can’t imagine how anyone can defend criminal and violent behavior either by the MQM ghundas or these Madrassa ghundas. The MQM rally from everything we have read had no violence in it. Did it?

  186. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 22nd, 2007 3:03 pm

    Afshan, how sane it is to praise a murderer condemning act of evil by others just because he hates them? I could pay attention if all of them were not said by Altaf who killed hundred of mohajirs in 90s.

    Tonight I got chance to read a funny news that MQM’s rabta comittie has issued a “Research Report” about Jamia Hafsa which is actually nothing but cutting of news papers which they would have collected from various sources. The intresting thing of the report is that they don’t even know the area of Hafsa school at all. IT seems like a report which was made in drawing room.

    Muammad sahab, if you know the ACTUAL meaning of Quran then why don’t you teach other rather wasting your time in sissy rants? what I see you have been chanting Mullahraj zindabad. What would some learn from your *mighty knowledge*? Is this what you guys will teach to your future generations. I am afraid they will be more like a garbage for Pakistan than mulllahs whom you curse 24x7x356.

    Prove yourself good first so that others could follow you. Right now you guys come out as clowns rather intellectuals.

    Speaking of Afghanistan, i think you need to read a bit ISI 101 to gain some knowledge. I give you a hint, Akhter Abdul Rahman. Go and search about him.

    Would altaf bhai like to initiate a research case about murder of Hakim Saeed,Azeem Tariq and Khalid Bin Waleed? Would altaf bhai be able to face the research reports about the torture cells in Karachi? Offcourse not, he will kill the researches at first place.

    I would more welcome if someone who stands up and make a research reports against crime of Altaf Hussain, Aunty Shamim and offcourse Hafsa managment to find out the real facts rather fooling others.

  187. mohammed says:
    April 22nd, 2007 5:06 pm

    [quote comment="44485"]Muammad sahab, if you know the ACTUAL meaning of Quran then why don’t you teach other rather wasting your time in sissy rants? what I see you have been chanting Mullahraj zindabad. What would some learn from your *mighty knowledge*? Is this what you guys will teach to your future generations. I am afraid they will be more like a garbage for Pakistan than mulllahs whom you curse 24x7x356.[/quote]

    I thank you for your words Adnan bhai.

    Firstly my brother, I do not see in the Qu’ran anything about priesthood – as these mullahs have infested our religion – on the meaning of the Qur’an lets turn it around – grab any ‘Taliban Madrassa’ student ask these parrots if they understand in classical arabic any verses of the Qu’ran? I think apart from a few selected meanings brainwashed into the heads of these kids they know only what the powercrazed mullah tells them. And this mullah cares NOTHING of the future of these kids and nothing for PAKISTAN.

    These people the Mullahstanis these who jump up and down beat up little kids, kidnap women,shout a few verses from the Qu’ran, curse anyone that disagrees with them and are now wanting to control Pakistan(just in case their followers and potential disciples find out about the world and other people – including about other muslims)I have no intention and inshallah more and more Pakistanis are awaking to this fact – we have no intention of trusting these fanatical mullahs with our children ever again.

    Imagine sending your boy or girl to this madrassa to learn about Islam – and the next thing the little kid is brainwashed put on the street looking for – what these mullahs consider prostitutes – then set these kids to attack CD and Video stalls – whether those CDs are Computer Sotware, Islamic or ‘Nach/Gana’ these programmed kids – who their parents sent to be educated – destroy – regardless – because they can’t read.

    On why I have the PAKISTAN ZINDABAD, MULLAHRAJ MURDABAD – I thinks thats easy for all to see – every nation in the world is moving forward – Malaysia is a Muslim nation – they are allowed to progress and grow powerful, neighbouring India has more Muslims then us – yet they are laughing at us, because we are letting these uneducated, foulmouthed dangerous buffoons become powerful by just standing by.

    But my brother Adnan, as you can see this government does not do anything against this threat, they are losing respect and authority day by day, hour by hour – we care and love Pakistan – we want Pakistan to hold its head high in the world and progress – we have a lot of potential.

    But no government is going to do that for us and certainly no Mullahstani is going to let its disciples free to progress.

    I ask you Adnan bhai – to help Pakistan and Pakistanis – encourage all – whatever their sect to stand with other Pakistanis up and down Pakistan for a free and progressive Pakistan, stand with us against the Mullahraj.

    If you want these Mullahs sharia – then this government should give the mullahs some land – deport them there and they can have any kind of sharia to their hearts content there – but that piece of land must be given its independence and fenced of from Pakistan – thats good for the people who want these Mullahs to control their lives and their destinies and good for Pakistan- so Pakistanis can join the rest of the worlds countries like Islamic Malaysia to move its people forward.

    If we do not stand up to these people now – we may as well let them run havoc with Pakistans future and rip up our passports – as no country would have us as we will not be allowed anywhere in the world – we are not even trusted with our own nations future let alone be trusted in another – would anyone allow a protaliban – crypto-alqaeda citizen in their country.

    I am not the only one ‘ranting’ against Mullahism – Pakistanis are awaking – and we are collectively shouting PAKISTAN ZINDABAD – MULLAHRAJ MURDABAD! and we will not rest in defending our Pakistan and its future.

    Unite and together lets show the Mullahstanis and those who wish to practice Mullahism – that we Pakistanis are AWAKE and shouting:

    PAKISTAN ZINDABAD – MULLAHRAJ MURDABAD!

  188. saeed says:
    April 22nd, 2007 5:38 pm

    +Adnan siddiqi:- I am sure you would have noticed the Damadam Mast Qalander by leader of Meerasi Qomi Movement Altaf Hussain

    And what should we call this combination of mullahs and their burqa posh ninjas who preach hate, threatens the civil society with suicide attacks, kill innocent people …..THE BEAUTIES AND THE BEASTS

    +Adnan siddiqi:- Prove yourself good first so that others could follow you. Right now you guys come out as clowns rather intellectuals.

    I wonder whose side you really are?
    First you call MQM “meerasi qomi movementâ€

  189. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 23rd, 2007 1:17 am

    Afshan,*sigh*. I think you are not following at all. long story short, How GHUNDAAS, the term you used for MQM could be considerered worthy and credible enough to be taken seriously while they themselves are involved in same thing? That’s my point.

    Saeed shab, it seems you slept on other side of the bed. I was replying to Mohammad sahab. I think Muhammad sahab will be very displeased that you call them Mullah. Kindly do read carefully before reaching to some conclusion. That’s all I can request!. What all I know that those “Ninjas” played a good role to remove a brothem from the area which was not appreciated by aunty shamim lovers and now they are getting irked and going insane by making lame statments.

  190. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 23rd, 2007 1:24 am

    Mohammad sahab, aap boht he bholay badshah hain. aap k itni bari response k mere pas sirf ek he jawab hay..

    Her Firown k liye ek Moosa[as] aur her Akbar k darbar me ek Mujadid Alf Sani[RA] hota hay

    Go figure! aqalmand k liye ishara kaafi hay. yes Aqal hona shart hay :-)

  191. Abdullah says:
    April 23rd, 2007 2:59 am

    Dear Afshan,

    [quote post="655"]And speaking of false accusations without proof. Do you have personal experience or proof of the supposed activities of this ‘Aunty Shamim’ that you keep repeating accusations about her by name? Or is it OK to make a tamasaha of someone’s izzat just because she is a woman?[/quote]

    On Oct’9′ 1998, Aunty Shamin was captured red handed along with two women from same house by Abpara Police. If u have resources then kindly check.

    [quote post="655"]Or is it OK to make a tamasaha of someone’s izzat just because she is a woman?[/quote]

    Its totally the wrong approach, can we say u r against Lal masjid admin just because they are men?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/specials/2228_pkpics_wk16_zs/

  192. Ismail Hussein says:
    April 24th, 2007 1:08 am

    Very good editorial in News Today:

    ——
    Time to get tough on Lal Masjid issue

    The latest statement by the Lal Masjid clerics seem to contradict recent reports of a resolution to the stand-off between their students and the government. However, given the past conduct of the clerics and the government’s spineless behaviour during the whole sordid affair, this was perhaps only to be expected. Remarks by the khateeb that no understanding will be reached unless the razed structures (initially built on encroached land) were reconstructed on their original sites and unless Shariat was declared in the country mean that the situation is back to square one. Now, one hopes that the government handles the situation in a more dignified and courageous manner.

    Previous reports had suggested that PML-Q President Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain had come to an ‘understanding’ with the clerics of Lal Masjid, which revolved, quite unacceptably, around the government backing away from its earlier policy of demolishing structures built by madressahs on encroached government land. Furthermore, the government, through the PML-Q chief’s intervention, severely diluted its own previous stand on the issue since at the very outset he made public statements that the government did not plan to use force against the Jamia Hafsa and Lal Masjid vigilantes. Anyone who has studied even basic conflict resolution would have told Chaudhry sahib that this is precisely not the thing to say when one wishes to enter — as the government, one thinks, would — into negotiations from a position of strength. In such a situation, the government should have let it be known to the other side from the very beginning that it was willing to use the option of force if the clerics did not back down from making illegal demands. No such thing happened. In fact the government capitulated, with reports suggesting that land for building two mosques had already been made available to the clerics.

    As these ‘negotiations’ went on, the demands of the clerics and the antics of their ‘students’ increased day by day. According to various eyewitness accounts and anecdotal evidence provided by residents of Islamabad, incidents of madressah students going about telling women to dress modestly or threatening music and video shops began to increase sharply. On the outskirts of the capital, some such shops were even attacked and thankfully the police made a few arrests. However, what became of those detained vigilantes is not clear, but what happened afterwards was a further chapter of shame as far as the government is concerned. As if it were a conditioned response, the Lal Masjid clerics said that those behind this attack had nothing to do with their madressah and, lo and behold, without any semblance of investigation or independent inquiry, the PML-Q chief chipped in saying that he took the Lal Masjid clerics at their word. In this particular regard, one is constrained to wonder why the PML chief would do this unless of course the whole idea was to play out a game, as they say, of ‘noora kushti’ (i.e., giving the impression that something real and meaningful is taking place when in fact everything is staged).

    The PML-Q chief’s willingness to take the clerics at their word is puzzling for good reason. Since the beginning of this sordid episode, which has now culminated in the federal capital being held hostage by extremists and on the verge of Talibanisation, the Lal Masjid clerics have said a lot of things and then conveniently denied them. Their demands, in return for vacating the children’s library and withdrawing the threat of using the Jamia Hafsa students as a moral enforcement brigade, have only increased with the government’s dilly-dallying. For instance, the demand initially was to rebuild the structures that had been demolished, which has now become a demand that the government “enforce Shariah” in the country.

    A bit of what the Lal Masjid khateeb has been saying on this can be gauged from what he said on FM radio on April 12: “I warn you that no place will be safe in the country if any operation was carried out against Lal Masjid. There will be suicide blasts in the nook and cranny of the country and the rulers will never be able to control the situation…. Don’t underestimate our strength. We have weapons, grenades and we are expert in manufacturing bombs. We are not weak. We are not afraid of death…. We are being maligned by [the] media and the NGOs for waging jihad against obscenity. Nobody realises that we are the true custodians of Islam…. Oh my brothers. I request you to throw out satanic things from your house. TV is the biggest evil that the west has created to spoil our religion. I am requesting the God-fearing Muslims to torch their TV sets. In a few weeks time, our boys and girls will be visiting your houses and preach you to burn your TV sets…. They [the president and prime minister] will have to fire the immoral Nilofar Bakhtiar who has brought shame to the Muslims. They should hand over Nilofar Bakhtiar to us. She will have to offer toba (repentance) and spend three months with the female students of Jamia Hafsa. I am sure she will return as a devout Muslim after receiving our training…. The government should abolish co-education. Quaid-e-Azam University has become a brothel. Its female professors and students roam in objectionable dresses. I think I will have to send my daughters of Jamia Hafsa to these immoral women. They will have to hide themselves in hijab otherwise they will be punished according to Islam…. Sportswomen are spreading nudity. I warn the sportswomen of Islamabad to stop participating in sports or my daughters of Jamia Hafsa will punish them in public. Our female students have not issued the threat of throwing acid on the uncovered faces of women. However, such a threat could be used for creating the fear of Islam among sinful women. There is no harm in it. There are far more horrible punishments in the hereafter for such women.”

    What can one say in response to this, except that this is hardly the time and the place for the government to be showing leniency in this regard, lest people think that this really is all stage-managed for the benefit of some people.

  193. SMH says:
    April 24th, 2007 1:10 pm

    Every day now the newspapers are reporting cases of these Taliban miullahs threatening and intimidating shopkeepers and people everywhere. If we ignore this trend now the long term effect will be turning Pakistan into Mullahland with Taliban running it. All last week I was in Peshawar, and they are everywhere with their dandas, its becoming part of their dress code.

    Pakistanis do not want their corrupt and violent version of Islam. Let us all take our country and our religion back from them.

  194. Abdullah says:
    April 23rd, 2007 5:41 am

    Please read a wonderful article of Dr. Israr Ahmed from today’s Jang

    http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/apr2007-daily/23-04-2007/col8.htm

    Kindly also read the latest article ‘Haqeeqat kuch aur hai…”
    on Daily Ummat on contents of above mentioned two adds. Very interesting in reading

    http://kashifhafeez.com/

  195. mohammed says:
    April 23rd, 2007 5:54 am

    i really don’t mind being called a mullah – mullah nasaruddin, mullah rumi are some mullahs that i really respect – but my ‘beef’ (halah beef) is with the mullahstanis and those that want a mullahraj in pakistan.

    You know Auntie Shantie – I don’t really care whether she did something or didn’t – but there are proper procedures in a ‘civilised’ nation – you don’t kidnap and threaten a group of women under the guise of Islam.

    Also Adnan bhai – what really hurts me is when people who profess to be Islamic do not condemn and demonstrate against this barbarian philosophy of mullahism – the same mullahism that made a 12 yearold pakistani boy kill another man – in the name of Islam.

    I don’t want my brothers/sisters or sons and daughters to learn about how to kill fellow muslims or fellow human beings in the name ofour great religion.

    It is because of this I an demonstrating:

    PAKISTAN ZINDABAD – MULLAHRAJ MURDABAD

  196. saeed says:
    April 23rd, 2007 6:49 am

    +Adnan…Saeed shab, it seems you slept on other side of the bed. I was replying to Mohammad sahab.

    Hahaha… you were replying to Mohammad sahib but were thinking of the mullahs and kamal baat kahe app nay “Prove yourself good first so that others could follow you.â€

  197. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 24th, 2007 1:48 am

    another “sin” comitted by Lal Masjid:

    tinyurl.com/2ovqvq

    COme on liberals! you got another excuse for trolling. Now aunty shamim lovers will fight to back the people who rape these girls and would chant like hell. let’s see how WPB can help these girls.

  198. Jabir Khan says:
    April 24th, 2007 7:22 am

    Adnan kyon in ‘becharoon’ kay shishay kay makanon par pathar martay ho?

    Their grasp of affairs reminds me of a mathematician who was about to cross a river with his family. He took three different measurements and announced the average depth is only 3 feet. Result, he drowned along with his family :)

  199. April 24th, 2007 1:15 pm

    Jabir, visit the URL which is old but very relevent

    tinyurl.com/2nefh5

    I have been recently given the copy of that mentioned report in PDF format[around 220 pages] and this report reveals how RAND which played big role during cold war and now same RAND is busy to back so called moderate muslims,liberals,humanists etc to fight against Islam. I have just read first chapter and I am amazed how the things are being managed. The things which you hear today like Sufiism,Enlightened moderation ,freedom of speech etc are all part of already written script. Even it has also been mentioned how to use online forums to gather such forces against Islam. if you need the copy then do drop a message on my blog. The report is not less intresting and thrilling than BBC’s Adam Curtis’ documentary about neocons and their role in Middle east and fall of USSR and now busy in Pakistan but as God said himself:


    And they planned, and Allah also planned; and Allah is the Best of planners(quran 3:54)

  200. Nazir01 says:
    April 24th, 2007 1:31 pm

    “Whom God wishes to destroy he first makes mad.”

    Mullahs certainly fit this description of madness. Rand Corporation could not have done as good a job of inciting hate against Mullahs as Mullahs in their madness have done themselves.

  201. mohammed says:
    April 24th, 2007 3:18 pm

    [quote comment="44786"]

    And they planned, and Allah also planned; and Allah is the Best of planners(quran 3:54)
    [/quote]

    How very correct Adnan bhai the Mullah planned to take over Pakistan, but Allah SWT also planned by giving people a brain and ability to differentiate between right and wrong. The Mullah has abused our great religion – but Allah is the Best of Planners – lets go forward and fight the Mullahstanis by demonstrating.

    Also Adnan bhai – are you going to condemn the Pakistani Taliban beheaded by that brainwashed little boy – or the Mullahs which destroyed this little boys essence by this atrocity?

    Remember this is what we Pakistanis will face in the future – if we don’t stand up to the Mullahs now, enough is enough!

    PAKISTAN ZINDABAD – MULLAHRAJ MURDABAD!

  202. Jabir Khan says:
    April 24th, 2007 5:06 pm

    Adnan, interesting article and this plan cannot further without liberal ‘useful idiots’. But don’t worry; these mama boys will be hiding behind islamists same way as their foolish Lebanese brethren were during the 2006 war.

  203. saeed says:
    April 24th, 2007 5:15 pm

    ADNAN:- COme on liberals! you got another excuse for trolling. Now aunty shamim lovers will fight to back the people who rape these girls and would chant like hell. let’s see how WPB can help these girls.

    Adnan dear this is how they should have behaved in aunty shamim’s case also, instead of taking the law in their own hands.

    I consider myself a liberal and please bro understand that supporting aunty shamim doesn’t reflect the support for brothels, every now and then we read reports of police raiding brothels in Pakistan and none of the liberals/moderates have ever condemned such raids.

    I didn’t like the idea of exposing “those poor girlsâ€

  204. Akif Nizam says:
    April 24th, 2007 6:00 pm

    Adnan or Jabir: care to comment on the “News” Editorial posted by Ismail ?

  205. bhattione says:
    April 24th, 2007 6:41 pm

    And to Madyan (We sent) their brother Shuaib, so he said: O my people! serve Allah and fear the latter day and
    DO NOT ACT CORRUPTLY IN THE LAND, MAKING MISCHIEF. 29:36.

    I wonder what mullahs of lal masjid would say regarding such verses of quran.

    God bless you all.

  206. Jabir Khan says:
    April 24th, 2007 6:51 pm

    Excerpt from RAND report mentioned earlier by Adnan:

    The report says that the modernists and secularists are closest to the West but are general in a weaker position than the other groups, lacking money, infrastructure and a public platform.

    Akif, at least the highlighted portion explains the liberal motivation.

  207. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 25th, 2007 1:26 am


    Adnan dear this is how they should have behaved in aunty shamim’s case also,

    Mr.Saeed, if you are not used to read papers then it’s not my fault. The lal managment took similar action for aunty. They reported to local Police station and asked to them to file case against them but since police in Pakistan is rather “Londi” of influential people ,they didn’t file the case. It wa also mentioned in paper that liberals’ beloved aunty slapped SHO on his face.

    I know police will not take action against culprit who raped the kids and when lal managment will take action the supporters of rapist that is liberals would start whining again on this and other forum against “Danda bardar Shariyat”.

  208. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 25th, 2007 1:34 am

    Jabir sahab the BBC news is nothing! Check your inbox i just emailed you. The report is more interesting than Alf Laila or Harry Poter.

    I often used to think how come liberals got too much aqal to start things in organized way. After reading report,it gets cleared that they are all doing what they have been told. Beware with these desi neocons!!

    Mohammad mian, merey nadaan dost, who said RAND report is damaging Pakistan? RAND report just reveals how these liberals/secularist etc are/will be used to defeat “Islam” like they defeated Communism in 70s.

  209. Nazir01 says:
    April 25th, 2007 1:36 am

    [quote comment="44845"]Excerpt from RAND report mentioned earlier by Adnan:

    The report says that the modernists and secularists are closest to the West but are general in a weaker position than the other groups, lacking money, infrastructure and a public platform.

    Akif, at least the highlighted portion explains the liberal motivation.[/quote]

    No. Just shows that they don’t fool public in the name of Islam to collect ‘chunda baray masjid’ to build mosques on encroached land and ‘chunda bray jihad’ to get children of poor people killed.

  210. mohammed says:
    April 25th, 2007 6:27 am

    Adnan bhai can we not be fixated on whether Auntie Shamim did this or that. Its odd that suddenly these maulanas decided to raid that ‘alledged’ brothel which just happened to be right next door (well not literally) to the madrassa?

    The same mullah after having this lady and her family kidnapped then said that any ex-prostitute can marry him – maybe someone had a problem with non-payment (alledgely)! I mean a certain mullah-azam is known as mullah-sandwich – but hey thats another story!

    Anyway Pakistanis are awaking and news is spreading that the mullahstani and the cult of mullahism that has flourished in Pakistan is being challenged and inshallah this evil will be defeated and Pakistan and Pakistanis will be able to hold their heads high in the world again.

    Pakistan Zindabad – Mullahraj Murdabad

  211. Akif Nizam says:
    April 25th, 2007 11:26 am

    “Akif, at least the highlighted portion explains the liberal motivation.”

    …..so I guess the answer to my question would be “no thank you……this item doesn’t suit our agenda”.

  212. saeed says:
    April 25th, 2007 4:16 pm

    +Adnan Mr.Saeed, if you are not used to read papers then it’s not my fault.
    If so then…..agreed (-:

    +Adnan:- The lal managment took similar action for aunty. They reported to local Police station and asked to them to file case against them but since police in Pakistan is rather “Londiâ€

  213. saeed says:
    April 25th, 2007 4:30 pm

    mohammed:-the cult of mullahism that has flourished in Pakistan is being challenged

    you are damn right brother and when the silent majority will fully awake, mullahism will be GONE WITH THE WIND (-:

    cheers.

  214. mohammed says:
    April 25th, 2007 6:08 pm

    [quote comment="45027"]mohammed:-the cult of mullahism that has flourished in Pakistan is being challenged you are damn right brother and when the silent majority will fully awake, mullahism will be GONE WITH THE WIND (-:

    cheers.[/quote] Thanks brother,

    Who are you gonna call ‘MULLAHBUSTERS!’

    Pakistan Zindabad – Mullahraj Murdabad

  215. Nazir says:
    April 26th, 2007 11:31 am

    ’برقعÛ

  216. Nazir says:
    April 26th, 2007 10:09 pm

    ’حکومتی روشن خیالی ڈھونگ Û

  217. saeed says:
    April 27th, 2007 11:07 am

    +mohammed:- Who are you gonna call ‘MULLAHBUSTERS!’

    MQM:
    MULLAHBUSTERS QUAMI MOVEMENT (-:

    cheers.

  218. KAWA1 says:
    July 20th, 2007 5:44 am

    ‘Citizens of Karachi’ to Rally Against ‘Klashnikov Shariat’

    Any comment about 15 years of ‘‘Klashnikov Culture of MQM”?

    Any comment on MQM slogan “Jo Quaid Ka Ghadar Ha Wo Moath Ka haqdar Ha”.
    Atleast the Mullah slogan is “Jo Nabi ‘O’Karim Ka Munafic Ha Wo Moath Ka Haqdar Ha”.

    Which is more logical to a Muslim? I do not believe in either but if you are to select one, the Mullah’s have a better slogan.

    As for ‘Klashnikovs’, MQM has a larger arsenal of weapons than any Mullah organization in Pakistan.

  219. Ayesha says:
    July 21st, 2007 11:20 am

    Sorry for saying so.

    Let us be frank. How can you say the Islamists are not “interpreting the quran and hadith” properly? All the things that rally is against are ISLAMIC.

    Even if you can convince few people and few maulanas today, the arguments for and against will always be there till Islam is there.

    The only way for Pakistan to progress towards modernity is to deprive the mullahs of their strength.

    The strength of Mullahs stem from the Muslim majority in Pakistan.

    Only way that strength destroyed is to become Hindus or Buddhists.

    Only if Muslims are a minority in Pakistan, Pakistan will truly be a modern nation.

    Think!

  220. Yusuf says:
    July 21st, 2007 1:17 pm

    Ayesha has hit the nail on its head.

    We can fight today. We can fight tomorrow. But in future, the Muslim identity will result in our children and grandchildren falling prey to the Mullahs.

    The only escape would be convert to Hinduism or Buddhism.

    That is the only way we can protect our children from falling victims to the mad mullahs.

  221. mazhar butt says:
    July 21st, 2007 2:06 pm

    Extremism is bad in all cases. But what ‘extremism’ actually is? If it is following the tenets of the holy Quran strictly, then I am afraid to say all muslims will have to comply with them. If not then as one of the friends stated in this forum only ”conversion’ to other faiths could be the answer. My question is: whether we want to live by the commands of the Quran or not? If the answer is in affirmative then only Mullahs are not responsible for (re) enforcing Islam as they please. It would be duty of all muslims to play their role voluntarily. And, if the case is in negative, we should forget about calling Pakistan as ”Islamic Republic of Pakistan” and opt for a secular state.

  222. CJ says:
    July 21st, 2007 5:21 pm

    “Muslims” are all confused these days. If you read the quran, some things are clear;

    1)Men and Women are not equal and men have greater rights and women were created to show obedience and serve man’s pleasure?
    2)Women MUST do parda and hide their body from head to toe?
    3)Jihad is clearly mentioned and as Muslim’s we are suppose to pick up arms to save guard our religion?
    4)Every Muslim should follow and lead our lives as per Sharia? Only do not force non-Muslims.
    5)A Muslim child must be made to pray 5 times. Be physical if he/she has attained puberty and is defying the law of God?

    Now, I don’t plan on following any of above but that is what our religion states. This is what Mullah’s say and that is what I read in Quran. It is true. Maybe it’s time that all who do not agree (including me) change our faith to some other religion?? How’s that for a thought? let’s not live our lives two faced.

  223. Hussain says:
    July 22nd, 2007 10:44 am

    Ayesha,

    Conversion is not the solution to our problem. We have to come out of the interpretations given by our moulvis. We don’t need any interpreting agent between ourselves and Allah. All religious matters are between the respective individuals and their Creator. Who are these mullas to dictate terms? If I err, let my Creator judge me.

  224. Naqwi says:
    July 22nd, 2007 10:57 am

    Hussain,

    Conversion is not a solution for you.

    It is the solution for protecting your children and grandchildren from Mullahs of the future.

    I understand what Ayesha says..

  225. mazhar butt says:
    July 22nd, 2007 5:49 pm

    Both CJ and Ayesha are correct in their own rights,,,,the former is right in that whatever is stated in the Quran is not acceptable to him and yet he wants to stay a Muslim ! The lady, in her frustration, has spoken about ‘conversion’ which is not possible under the prevailing circumstances in the country. This idea is now too late: someone like Maulana Azad was right when he opposed the great divide and is said to have remarked that ‘The hindu majority in India wont gulp away the Muslims” How true he was! Muslims seem to work better in a mixed culture like India where people practice many religions. Among themselves they are : AIK HAMMAM MIEN SUB NANGAY !

    Let’s not be AADHA TEETAR AADHA BATAIR. Let’s refuse to follow Mullah’s creed but why shy away from the teachings of Islam as they appear in the holy Quran?

  226. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    September 26th, 2007 10:20 am

    If Kalashnikof Shariat is condemned, then we should all condemn :
    Communist shariat Kalashnikov
    Secular shariat ” ” ” ”
    Sectarian shariat Kalashnikov
    PPP, MQM, Jatta ” ” ”
    and Maula Jatt ” ” ” “

  227. May 27th, 2008 2:37 pm

    Ayesha, After thinking for a while over your argument, I have come to a realization and that every, muslim prays to the Allah to show them the right path and for centuries they have been praying that same old prayer. When will Allah hear that pray? Do you think that this prayer will ever be heard?
    Your solution is to convert to Buddhism and or Hinduism in order to weaken the hold of mullah’s on your children is not logical and is weak. You don’t have to go that route. The answer has always been there and there is only one who says come follow me all that are heavily laden and I will give you rest. Have you ever heard this call and He also says, I am the way, the truth and I am the Life. Because without Him you can’t do anything. Just search Him who is Jesus and learn His way and He will teach you meekness. And once you learn to love Him you will be meek like Him and His peace will abide in your soul. Salvation of Pakistan is coming and one day because of these mullah’s many will say good bye to Islam(the religion which professes peace and the peace does not exist in it) and join the ranks of those who love this Jesus you not only saves give peace and life in this world and the world to come. Just imagine life everlasting which has no end.

    Think?

    Just think, all those who read this. Come follow Him for He is calling all of you.

  228. Iftikhar, Rawalpindi Pakistan says:
    May 6th, 2009 5:35 am

    Nobody wants Kalashnikov Shariat or Danda Shariat, so it is extremely nice of People of Karachi will march against this type of Shariat. I am 100% in favour of this . BUT lets not forget that in Karachi MQM has always encouraged the use of not only Kalashnikov but all types of weapons.AND it was Altaf Hussain who told his followers to sell house hold goods (like Tv etc) and buy weapons with that money.

Have Your Say (Bol, magar piyar say)