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Emergency Declared in Pakistan

Posted on November 3, 2007
Filed Under >Owais Mughal, Law & Justice, Politics
280 Comments
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Owais Mughal

President Gen. Pervez Musharraf has declared a state of emergency in Pakistan on Saturday. It has now been announced at PTV. The emergency decision comes ahead of a crucial Supreme Court decision on whether to overturn his recent election win.

The news caster at PTV didn’t give any reasons for emergency but read the following text:

The chief of army staff has proclaimed a state of emergency and issued a provisional constitutional order.

Earlier, Pakistan’s private TV channels had suddenly gone off-air amid speculations that emergency was going to be imposed.

An earlier Reuters report which was among the first to break the news read:

Private television channels Geo News and Dawn News both ran reports quoting unnamed sources as saying the government had made its decision. Speculation has been rife that Musharraf, who is awaiting a Supreme Court ruling on whether he was eligible to run for re-election last month while still army chief, might impose emergency rule or martial law

This has not been the first time that government thought about imposing emergency. The idea has been flirted with from time to time. Rumors kept appearing from time to time from as early as August 8, 2007. We also had a post on this topic then.

According to CNN:

The Supreme Court has declared the state of emergency illegal, claiming Musharraf had no power to suspend the constitution, Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry told CNN.

People were already sensing something was about to happen when Benazir suddenly left the country two days ago without even going to other provinces of the country except Sindh. It may be true that she indeed left Pakistan to be with her ailing mother but it never stops people from speculating. Also the earlier news where Government circles were advising Benazir not to come to Pakistan before Supreme Court decision now seem to put missing links to a continuum.


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According to Washington Post news:

The United States had tried to pressure Musharraf on Friday to avoid declaring emergency rule or martial law. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Friday sent a warning to Musharraf not to take authoritarian measures to hold on to power. “I think it would be quite obvious that the United States would not be supportive of extra-constitutional means,” Rice said. “Pakistan needs to prepare for and hold free and fair elections.” That message was followed by a previously scheduled meeting between Musharraf and Adm. William J. Fallon, chief of the U.S. Central Command.

Complete text of emergency declaration can be read here

280 Comments on “Emergency Declared in Pakistan”

  1. jyoti says:
    November 3rd, 2007 9:42 am

    Indian TV channels are reporting: Cheif Justice Chaudhri has been sacked, Army has enetred Supreme court, Private tv channels are off the air, phone lines are jammed, mobile phones not working. Army vehicles making rounds of Islamabad. Hamid Mir speaking on one Indian channel: All comunication has been cut off, Pakistanis don’t know what’s happening in their country, outsiders are “fortunate” to know what’s hapeening in Pakistan.

  2. Aqil Sajjad says:
    November 3rd, 2007 9:42 am

    Musharraf basically got away when the general public did not come out to protest during the deportation of NS and the beatings of lawyers and journalists on september 29. So his assessment is that he can get away with it.

    If the people of Pakistan deserve democracy, they will be protesting in huge numbers tomorrow. Otherwise, we don’t deserve democracy. It’s as clear and simple as that now.

  3. November 3rd, 2007 9:56 am

    People of Pakistan do not deserve this attitude, but none the less, I wont be surprised if many people do not agitate, because the its hard to get a job. Its hard to make both ends meet these days, and I do not see any alternates as a true sincere leader from the people, for the people.

    Can you guys suggest any such capable guy who can lead? and who is honest?

    Is there any doubt that Benazir lied to the nation that she’s going out on a personal visit? I am sure she knew whats going to happen and thats why she fled to protect herself and her mighty hubby.

    Is there any doubt that Justice Iftikhar was not just? he was simply working for his very own revenge, not for the nation. I know so many people who were wasting time in courts since years (including myself) and not getting justice from courts. The courts were just busy finding ways to settle the scores.

    Militart itself is busy settling scores, and so are politicians.

    Is there anyone who cares for Pakistan at all? Can we find a single Gentleman to lead this nation out of chaos, into a stable, better future ?

  4. Faisal says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:01 am

    What else can be said… ANOTHER SAD DAY FOR PAKISTAN..

  5. jyoti says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:01 am

    Pakistani Supreme Court rises has rejected the declaration of emergency. 8 jusdges have issued this rejection, even though they are surrounded by the army.

  6. November 3rd, 2007 10:01 am

    It is a very sad news, This may be the moment of test for our nation ,if we don’t do something now than may be we should be Myanmar, lets see what the nation does, any one has any ideas as to what we can do , cancel that what i can do, I don’t want to just protest silently but want to actively do something.

  7. Adnan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:04 am

    @Jyoti: Indian media needs such excuses to spread more propaganda. There is no such news that CJ has been sacked.

  8. jk says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:05 am

    Well, that’s horrible.

    Can’t wait to hear mushie’s excuses on PTV soon.

  9. Faisal says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:08 am

    A request for webmasters of this webseite.. Please remove MUSH pictures from the front page. Pakistaniat(not the site but the philosophy) is in direct conflict with MUSH. Seeing musharraf on anything related to patriot pakistanis is really torturing.

  10. Ahmed Karim says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:10 am

    No doubt there are some good leders too. Now public will have to decide weather they are happy with Musharraf or not. If they don’t like Musharraf they should show there protest. Government should let the tv channels resume their trancimition. This is not onley Mushrraf’s Pakistan, every Pakistani has equall right and loves his country.

  11. Faisal says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:18 am

    Sorry pakistani public has been sedated… they are spiritully dead already they made the decision they want a slow miserable death

  12. Babar says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:20 am

    This is disappointing, to say the least. Things are going to get worse and there’s no one to blame but the current government.

  13. jyoti says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:20 am

    @Adnan: Please read Geo.tv.India or Indian channels are not to be blames for your rulers’ doings. here is what is “still” appearring on Geo tv’s site:
    “ISLAMABAD: Emergency has been imposed all over the country and a new PCO has been issued.

    The Chief of the Army Staff has announced the imposition of emergency throughout the country and the constitution 1973 has been suspended while the chief justice of Pakistan Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry has been removed from his office”.
    Be thankful to Indian Channels for providing plateform to your journalists, leaders and other public figures to talk about what’s hapeening to their country. Otherwise, the world might not know what your ruler is doing as communication lines have been jammed there. Am I right, or is it also Indian propaganda?

  14. PatExpat says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:20 am

    The Webmasters of this website have been the biggest promoters of Musharraf’s regime under one pretext or another but mostly under ‘we dont have an alternative’.

    Where is Muhammad Akram with his dream of Messiah when you need his spam?

    The cat is finally out of the bag!!! (It took a long time though to come out)

  15. Abelincoln says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:25 am

    Its a sad day again for Pakistan, especially since Democracy still had a hope with the Chief Justice. Its time for people of Pakistan to rise and fight this for the sake of democracy and moral and theocratic values on which the state of Pakistan was formed. Its time to look within rather than looking at other countries as problems. Politicians and Miltarymen have just fooled pakistanis for long. Its time to correct that before you go ahead and solve disputes with other countries.

  16. November 3rd, 2007 10:26 am

    May the wrath of ALLAH engulf Musharraf and his vile regime. How can he justify putting a gun to the head of 160m people for the sake of his presidency. He is the firawn and as a collective the Pakistan people must be the great MOSES.

    Arise Pakistan and resist this war crime in your name, we must stand together as one and protest peacefully. We must be ready if its needed to make sacrificies in blood if necessary, Pakistan must be reclaimed as a land of the pure otherwise we will deserve to go to hell. So my Pakistani brothers and sisters we must make our choice, are we with MOSES or firawn, may ALLAH be our saviour.

    See my website for more info on creating an ‘other’ Pakistan at http://www.otherpakistan.org/archive.html

    Feimanallah Pakistan

    Wasim

  17. Shariq says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:26 am

    Am watching geo and live blogging at http://www.pickledpolitics.com for anyone who doesn’t have access to pakistani tv.

  18. D_a_n says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:37 am

    another in a long and sad series of events that has been Pakistans fate to suffer…and seeing things as the way they are….this ‘emergency plus’ could just not have come at a worse time…I genuinely fear that we may just not recover from this mortal blow… I fear that we are truly done in….

    a Salute to the 8 member bench who bravely declared the PCO illegal apparently while the supreme court was being taken over (had been taken over??)….

    and a pox on each and every sell out judge who takes an oath under the PCO…this act should not enjoy any legitimacy…

    @ JYOTI….

    its very sad to know that you choose one of our darkest hours to amuse yourself andf gloat at our misfortune…totally tasteless….

  19. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:38 am

    Protest, Protest, Protest

    yes we are watching now since it started,
    what a shame

  20. Faisal says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:42 am

    Can anybody relay TV (any news channel) right now

  21. jyoti says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:47 am

    @ D_a_n: I am sorry. Truelly, very sorry for getting angry. I was not gloating. I just felt exaspareted. Like “bhediya aayaa, bhedia aayaa”, your rulers have been telling you “India aayaa, India aayaa” for the last 60 years. Maybe now is the time to come out of that “apheem” and think who is the real “bhediya” for Pakistan. I really felt bad that even at this hour, when all I was trying to do was convey the cureent news assuming it was not accessible in your country. I apologise once again if I hurt you. It was unintentional and I wish from the bottom of my heart that you and your country will come out of this crisis with flying colors.

  22. Sajid says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:07 am

    Shame…shame…
    A greedy general sucking all Pakistan.

  23. dcdesi says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:20 am

    Cnn is at one point quoting saying martial law has been declared. I am unable to confirm this from any other news source. and its just stated at one place. Thats the link http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/11/03/pakistan.emergency/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
    All other news sources are saying that it is an emergency.
    MSNBC is also saying that the chief justice has been removed and that’s the same news i got from my brother in Pk.
    All I can say is Allah keep Pakistan safe. Ameen.

  24. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:21 am

    BB will come back chasing the carots, has left Dubai,we wait and see, all the deals with BB will end up in ” illegitimacy” if you get it ?

  25. MUHAMMAD ILMUDDIN (DUBAI) says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:24 am

    At last, Musharaf has imposed an emergency but who put him on the road to emergency,,,,,, i think__we all,,,,indeed the politicians. we, being away from Pakistan are in complete dejection and dipare. when we will be back to our beloved country…perhapse…..God Bless Our Nation.

    Muhammad ilmuddin.

  26. ZAIN says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:26 am

    I have watched the deteriorating situation in Pakistan for some time now, and I do not understand why the outrage is directed against Musharraf when murdering savages are slaughtering people in the streets of practically every city in the country.

    More horrifying to me than the carnage (qatl-e-aam) in Pakistan, is the response of the public who seem to have no sense of outrage at the fact that savages are killing their countrymen and public order is now approaching the level of a failed state.

    Musharraf is flawed. True. But when tribal savages and religious fanatics murder hundreds of innocents in cold blood– and public response is to blame Musharraf and America, I think the country has lost it’s damn mind.

    Elections and the mere act of voting– as Iraq has shown us– mean nothing in the face of chaos. The first business of any government is the maintenance of order. Law comes after order, not before. Personally, I think Musharraf has been weak on security and doesn’t act aggressively enough Still, I know for a fact that any democratically elected govt– Benazir or Nawaz– will try to accomodate the murderers and their fellow travellers in the religious parties. After all, Benazir rubber-stamped the support of the Taliban in the 90s. And Nawaz planned to have himself declared Amir-al-Momineen.

    Can you imagine that– the title held by Ali, Omar, Osman, and Abu Bakr– claimed by Mullah Omar and Nawaz Sharif?!!! It is the ultimate blasphemy.

    1400 years ago we Muslims faced the Kharijites. They murdered Osman and Ali. Ali killed 40,000 of them before he was murdered by a Kharijite assassin. Think about it– Ali had to kill 40,000 of these scum at a time when the population of Arabia was a million people. 4% of the population.

    God save Pakistan from the savages. God save Pakistan from its pathetic political class (including the Army). God save Pakistan from its people.

    Rona ata hai yaar. Rona ata hai.

  27. Syed Ahmad says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:28 am

    GEO NEWS LATEST:

    Troops DID NOT enter the supreme court.

    Cheif Justice WAS NOT sacked.

    He is STILL in his post and on his seat.

    Media has NOT been totally stopped. Geo News reporter was speaking to Dr Shahid Masood from right outside the Supreme Court, speaking very frankly.

    Dr Shahid Masood ADMITTED that earlier news reports were totally wrong (i.e. that troops entered parliament, surrounded chief justice etc etc.)

    I am not a Musharraf supporter at all, just saying that people should know what the real facts are.

  28. Anan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:32 am

    People just want to get on with their lives and prosper. Everyone wants a good life and a stable government. The political battles, between political parties and the military and lost causes like Afghanistan and Kashmir are taking Pakistan backward not forward. We should take what we have, protect it and make it better for every generation to enjoy. Pakistani’s are as hardworking as everyone else, but not respected outside of Pakistan because of its continuing political problems and radical statements. While our Indian and Chinese counterparts are sought after and welcome, we are looked at with disdain. Every Pakistani, in the country or outside should do their best to solve such issues, else the Pakistani people will continue living in misery while the military and politicians fight out for power and money. We need a leader but who? Got any names?

  29. November 3rd, 2007 11:34 am

    Ok folks….nice knowing ya all….
    it wont be long before sites as this one will be blocked soon…so adios to all,
    may we meet sometime soon…..

    ab to Allah hi Hafiz

  30. Neena says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:35 am

    Jyoti,

    You’re right, CJ is suspended and it

  31. Anan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:39 am

    Zain, I totally agree with what you say. Apne ghar aag lagi hai, par kisko bole, kis taraf dekhe. Its okay until Mushraf is there, he is not an extremist, what happens when he goes. My family is leaving Pakistan as soon as they get the chance. Tell me what can we do?

  32. ali raza says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:40 am

    Martial Law comes back to save Pakistanis from themselves. Sheikh Rashid has been saying it for a while that an emergency plus is coming if things don’t get better soon. And its here. But its a martial law imposed on the mutinous judiaciary and media. Both have been causing the government problems. For the regular man on the street it means nothing.

  33. Hassan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:40 am

    Well I just read bbc news and they are saying :
    “Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, who condemned the moves, has reportedly been sacked and is being confined to the Supreme Court with 10 other judges.”

    At last musharaf has shown how far he can go to retain his power. Anywayz I saw many people saying here that lets protest.Do you really think any one will come out to protest?
    I don’t. Because everyone thinks why he should get himself in danger.
    Now it will be interesting to see how lawyers reply to this.Report is heard that Aitazaz ahsan has been detained for 1 month.Lets see what lawyers will do.

  34. izaz haque says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:44 am

    Perhaps the General wants to restore the weakened Pakistani Army image by roping in 11 wise old men in the Supreme Court. What will they do: parade them in the streets of Islamabad to make up for the humiliations in FATA and Swat?

    Regardless, this action risks expanding the militancy from the NWFP and Baluchistan into secular Punjab and Sindh. Musharraf will finally have succeeded in doing what only the Army can do in Pakistan – split it into 4 parts. They already succeeeded in East Pakistan. Now they are doing it again.

  35. Kruman says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:46 am

    Supreme Court Orders Core commanders and servicemen to not take part in any unlawful or unconsittuional activity.

    The SC order read out on TV, see the video here:
    http://free-pakistan.blogspot.com/

  36. mozang bijli says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:47 am

    fully agree with above comment
    who need a foriegn army to split pakistan when our own is making a good job of it.
    ghadar hay
    ghadar hay

  37. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:48 am

    Some comments are irrelevant to the event, and are
    thrown in like a donkey in a cook fight.

  38. Neena says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:48 am

    I just felt exaspareted. Like

  39. A frustrated pakistani says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:51 am

    Musharraf did that only to save himself from the judicial embarrasment he was going to face. For a few days, the government had been acting as if it knows the supreme court decision will be against it. In all three cases, Nawaz Sharif, NRO and Musharraf’s candidature, the government seemd to be weak on legal grounds.
    Emergency will not give the general any extra power that he already does not have.
    In our country, decisions are made in national interest to preserve self interest. Tell me if any of the generals have left gracefully, they ride on the horse of a self proclaimed saviour but their exit is usually ignominious and leaves a lot of destruction in the wake.
    The important thing is that, we the chattering classes must strive to block the entry of these military saviours because they enter without the intention of leaving.
    I hope my country survives the onslaught of this saviour and gives us, the people of Pakistan the ability to understand that the only way Pakistan can prosper is through a political process.

  40. November 3rd, 2007 11:51 am

    Whats going on with our beloved country Pakistan. I am sure that we dont deserve it. We should do something against this to show we are not deserving it. Our government and politicians are just setting scores. As far as Bhutto is concerned, she acts like she is a very good Muslim. Doesn’t she know that there is a Hadith that ,the nation who has female leader can not survie? and we are illeterate enough that we dont know it either and rushing to vote her! my heart shakes when i think about our country’s future. The government is the worst and the country is the best. May Allah Help us! :-(

  41. Anan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:53 am

    @ D_a_n

    I dont think we should be worrying about who is gloating at our misfortune. What should we be doing now? These days will pass soon and maybe years later this will be a forgottend memory. But until then are we safe, should we stay put or do something?

  42. sidhas says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:56 am

    “Es pind nal khair de khabr kadi nahi aie”.

  43. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:59 am

    Abdel Hameed Dogar has taken oath, HE IS BENAZIR’S
    MAN, Shame on him, the others ??

  44. TEE BEE says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:00 pm

    Justice Hamid Dogar has taken oath as Chief Justice of Pakistan..

    LOTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  45. Anan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:00 pm

    Thanks Yusra Amjad, I did not know about the Hadith. But what is Izaz Haque saying? Has it come to this? Pakistan ke char tukde. Hosh mein to ho? I know about the militancy in FATA and NWFP but isnt our army controlling it?

  46. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:06 pm

    A.H Dogar is Benazir’s man, he has just taken oath

  47. TEE BEE says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:07 pm

    Just saw on GEO…BB has boarded the plane and plane has taken off for Karachi…..we’ll see what happens in next couple hours..!!!

  48. Neena says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:07 pm

    There are reports of protests in Islamabad but since almost all leaders are under arrest and all private channels are off so word can’t be spread around.

  49. Ahmed Karim says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:11 pm

    Update : Abdu-al-Hamid dogar is now CJ of Pakistan. Parwaiz Mushrraf will address the nation at 11 PM PST. Acording to VOA

  50. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:12 pm

    Shame Shame

    Dogar is taking oath now with Mushy, throw
    tomatoes and rotten eggs on them, I have already done
    it, my shoe is about to ……… on the screen !!!!

    Benazir wanted her judges !!!!!

  51. jk says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:16 pm

    Yusra Amjad > Successful female leaders in history:

    Tarja Kaarina Halonen
    Helen Clark
    Mary McAleese
    Mary Robinson
    Violeta Barrios de Chamorro
    Gro Harlem Brundtland
    Mary Eugenia Charles
    Vigdis Finnbogadottir
    Margaret Thatcher
    All the queens of Egypt
    All the queens of Britain

    Pakistan has been run almost exclusively by males during most of history. Most of the countries in the world that have been run exclusively by males are third world failed states. I can’t believe someone can be so ignorant to believe what you just said.

  52. nadeem says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:24 pm

    actually jyoti is right cj has been told that his services are no more required and all the sc judges are holed up in the sc and they will probably be arrested if they resist another shameful day for pakistan and the Pakistanis

  53. bhitai says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:25 pm

    Chaudry Iftikhar and Aitezaz have become my favorite personalities of late. I could only wish our people would realize how important it is to not leave them besieged in this crisis. This whole drama is a blow to the rule of law in Pakistan. Never in our history one person (Chaudry Iftikhar) has epitomized Justice so much, and never has one person (Mushy) behaved so shamelessly and selfishly to bulldoze everything that comes in the way of his ambition..

  54. Neena says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:26 pm

    Yusra Amjad,

    No you are wrong you can read more about it here.
    I hope no one make you think that you

  55. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:30 pm

    last PCO

    Proclam Emergency through out Pakistan.

    Is the constit suspended ???

    can any one confirm right now , I have to tell to the TV

  56. Hassan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:31 pm

    Atleast Justice Jjavaid Iqbal didn’t take oath this time.Nice to hear that.People like Dogar are really mir sadiq and mir jafar of this era.

  57. faraz says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:31 pm

    I am speachless. As I am living in USA, one thing is certain; my Indians friends will lot of fun of Pakistan.

    In short term I am worried about law-& order in Pakistan. In long term, we may loose some part of Pakistan in future.

  58. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:35 pm

    Top Bras is not giving their approval to Mushy
    they are asking why ??

    Lot of confusion, lies , and rumours, dysinformation

    no one will accept

  59. Neena says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:40 pm

    KMB(http://karachi.metblogs.com/), LMB and IMB are doing great job by timely updates on current developments.

  60. November 3rd, 2007 12:40 pm

    Pakistan is bleeding, we must resist and choose the law and constitution over the rule of the bullet. The next days will make or break Pakistan, but all ATP friends I ask you all to do your national service and come out on the streets peacefully to resist this vile regime. Standing still is not an option unless you want Pakistan to go to the dogs. See Other Pakistan’s most recent post at: http://www.otherpakistan.org/archive.html

    Feimanallah Pakistan

    Wasim

  61. Ibrahim says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:44 pm

    Salamalikum

    In all this, don’t forget to blame BB. This is all being done for her. Mush needs to be the president for BB to become PM. And, if Rafay Kashmiri is right that Dogar is BB’s man, then it all makes sense too.

  62. Faisal says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:46 pm

    Well Wasim your comments/blog will be deleted ..ALl i leanrnt about ATP is NASHISTAND GUFTAND BARKHASTAND. SIT TALK AND LEAVE… Which actually is our national behaviour.
    MAy be Owais and Aadil Bhai consider a comment like yours inflammatory
    “Keep comments on topic; no personal attacks; don’t submit indecent, inflammatory, slanderous, uncivil or irrelevant comments; flamers and trolls are not welcome; inappropriate comments will be removed or edited”

  63. jk says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:46 pm

    This seems like the last straw that broke the camels back. No constitution, No human rights, No supreme court, No fair judicial system, No education system. Just one dictator.

    How does one recover from this?

    Pakistan has been greatly destabilized because of this move. Let’s see what happens and how many protests there are. The scary thing now is that since there are no more rights for Pakistanis, the army can even more boldly shoot to kill any one.

  64. Keith says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:50 pm

    On one side Pakistan has crazy islamic fundamentalists and on the other side they have an authoritarian regime; in the middle are the poor people of Pakistan. My prayers are with you (I am praying to Jesus Christ by the way.)

  65. November 3rd, 2007 12:55 pm

    Faisal Bhai,

    Fear not Adil or Owais doing anything to your comments or mine for that matter. They do not get it right always but no-one could, they do an impossible job!

    Also both are passionate Pakistanis who know that today’s events will make or break Pakistan and so ATP comments will be explosive, its only natural for Pakistanis to vent their fury at the war crime committed in their name. Others ATP friends can keep up-to-date via Other Pakistan at http://www.otherpakistan.org/archive.html

    Feimanallah

    Wasim

  66. Basit says:
    November 3rd, 2007 12:57 pm

    Pakistan has a true constitutional crisis right now. The only
    reasonable way out of the current chaos is for the top brass of the Pakistan military to show Musharraf the door. Enough is enough. This from a consistent Musharraf supporter until now.

  67. Imran says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:01 pm

    @faraz. Faraz bhai we can’t stop others, we have done this to ourselves. We should have concentrated on our country instead of looking at Kashmir, now we have a huge powerful military that has turned against its own people. How can the men in the military do this to us.

  68. Neena says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:02 pm

    Pakistan Emergency: Text of Proclamation published in The Hindu Newspaper.

  69. jk says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:05 pm

    There is a thought that Pakistan was formed based on a perception that Muslims are some how superior to everyone else because of their religion. This “Self-esteem” basically gives people the idea that they can do no wrong and that things will be taken care of for the best by God.

    When you leave things only to God then this is what happens to a country. When you look at the state of your country and blame everyone else but your own self for the problems then this is what happens.

    No individual can be blamed for Pakistan’s failures. The blame belongs to everyone who did not strive to be better than what they were yesterday. Each year Pakistan deteriorates and people just blame each other and then say “Oh well, God will take care of it all” and then nothing happens.

    The solution is not simple but it involves people holding themselves to a higher standard. They must forget about wars, silly competitions, and things that don’t matter like whether a person is wearing pants or shalwar kameez.

    Instead, people should educate themselves. They should learn about the world with an open mind. They should start thinking about what a government is and who creates it and what rights they have. They should take care of their fellow citizens. And this will allow them to create an infrastructure in Pakistan that will not collapse every 3 years.

    It all boils down to having an open mind, tolerance, education and positive action. But the main issue is how to reverse the damage that has already been done.

  70. YLH says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:06 pm

    Benazir Bhutto is back. That is what matters.

  71. YLH says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:07 pm

    Keith Mian,

    Millions of Pakistanis … between 5 million to 12 million depending on which estimate you believe… are also Christians and pray to Jesus Christ… just fyi.

  72. Saleem Toor says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:08 pm

    Very interesting reasons given by the General (not the President by the way) for imposing emergency:

    You may see these here,

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/specials/1649_pco_order_zs/index.shtml

    Interesting facts are that the following have taken oath as Supreme court judges as well:

    1. Justice Faqir Khokhar
    2. Justice Nawaz Abbassi
    3. Justice Javed Buttar

    The good part is that out of over fifteen Supreme court judges, only four have sided with the government so far; the bad one is that we are not free of Mir Jaffars and Mir Saidqs throughout history.

    On the constitution avenue in Islamabad, one could spot over 200 journalists raising anti-establishment slogans; the rest is very queit in Islamabad; traffic far less than a normal Saturday evening.

    There have been conflicting news about Benazir taking off from Dubai for Karachi. The latest have ben that she has off-boarded the plane.

  73. SH Kavi says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:16 pm

    AP: Pakistan witnesses say about 100 troops deployed at Bhutto

  74. Hassan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:16 pm

    I just got call from my friend from us and he is saying that military has invaded its own country.
    Well If generals are doing this why not lower rank officers go against them?
    May Allah strengthen us so we could get out of this crisis.Ameen

  75. Ahsan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:20 pm

    Read full text of emergency proclamation:

    http://www.dawn.com/2007/11/03/welcome.htm

  76. Hassan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:27 pm

    Go to this link and you can hear geo live.
    http://pakistanvision.com/#

  77. Sumera Farooq says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:32 pm

    For many people still its a fun…but if we see the situation its really critical….All we can do is pray for Pakistan…

  78. Deewana Aik says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:35 pm

    SC got it self a little too involved in Lal Masjid affair, as implementing all instructions of SC in case of Lal Masjid would have meant providing support to those who participated in acts of terrorism or provided support to such people. This goes against the principals of law and justice. Taking a cursory look over Emergency proclamation order, the Government appears some what correct in its assertion that Judiciary is coming in the way of dealing with terrorism.

  79. Hassan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:38 pm

    @ Mr deeweena!!
    Don’t mind, but your comments just reflect your nick. Well if some of your relative had been in that masjid that I surely would like to know your comments.People like you just think of themselves.

  80. Deewana Aik says:
    November 3rd, 2007 1:48 pm

    Hassan, none of my relatives would have been in that mosque if I had any control over it as I would have explained to them that what they are doing in the name of shariat is exactly opposite to shariat as in effect what they would be doing is a crime against Islam, Shariat, Pakistan and people of Pakistan. If they still insisted on it then I would not have wanted anything to do with them, relative or not. Unlike you, principals are more important for me than relation, as per Islamic teachings.

    Just to give you a small reference, Imam Abu Hanifa was tortured several times by the authorities but he never asked his rather large following to take law into their own hands or commit treason. I certainly don

  81. Hassan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 2:01 pm

    @ Deewana aik!
    Well easy to say that you would have leave your reality but hard to face if that was reality in your life. I am not in favour of abdul rasheed or his brother but the point is that either government should have stopped them when 1st incident happened or they should agreed to the deal which was agreed just some hours from that bloodshed.All thanks to your beloved general.
    I am sorry if my earlier comment hurt you but remember always try to put yourself in position of person whom you are commenting on.
    And about islamic principles. Well could you tell me where it is written to go and kill your muslim brothers for some non-islamic state.
    I agree that principles are more important for you but its not necessary that your principles are right.

  82. ali raza says:
    November 3rd, 2007 2:10 pm

    Various govt. ministers had hinted at the annoyance of the govt. and police agencies over the barrage of suo moto notices of any and all investigations. The supreme court was making Pakistan an un-governable land. This bunch of PCO judges was acting like an un-elected opposition and were providing relief to terrorists. So good riddance.

    This is not perfect. But I’d rather we be flawed than be in anarchy. The majority of Pakistanis understand the importance of this. A few socialist adventurers can’t be allowed to play games with our country. Now they can sit home and play all the games they want. They could have allowed events to unfold according to initial govt. plans and let us slide into normalcy. Their arrogance has now led to this.

    The hand of the general was forced despite repeated assertions by the govt. that this was the last thing they wanted to do. I blame the adventurous supreme court for plunging us into this. But this is familiar and not so bad after all. Haha spoken like a true child of the martial law era.

  83. Roshan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 2:15 pm

    Its crazy !!!
    Its all being done to protect ONE person by aborting constitution and implementing PCO. That is very very very unfortunate for us as a nation. For time being, Musharraf would be rescued but is trapped in the narrow dark alley. Good luck Musharraf for your last days of rule.
    But the repercussions of this decision for our sweet homeland would be as bad as one can predict. Musharraf’s coup in 1999 was bloodless but his exit seems other way round. Our federation is at the threshold of disintegration where right wing extremists in NWFP are at war with army and situation in Baluchistan is also grim.
    Our Supreme Court which recently got some independence from the mighty establishment is under the trial of PCO and I am sure many black sheep in SC will take oath under this Draconian document.
    Shame on You Musharraf for another beginning of Dark Era in my country.

  84. Deewana Aik says:
    November 3rd, 2007 2:20 pm

    “Well could you tell me where it is written to go and kill your muslim brothers for some non-islamic state.”

    Should ask this question to right wing militant Mullahs (JI et al) who have killed so many fellow Pakistani/Muslim nationalists for the sake of US policies for the last so many decades. Also ask this question to Jamaat Islami backed Al-Badr and As-Shams who brutalised so many fellow Bengali Muslims in 1971. Also ask the suicide bombers this question, and also ask those Mullahs who advocate killing of fellow Muslim Shias. After all Musharaf came only seven years ago but these militants have been there for decades. Don

  85. Hassan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 2:36 pm

    @deewana aik!

    Well First of all about sucide bombing, I think you know it very well why it is happening(in response to army activities in waziristan) which is happening for sake of US glory.Is there any other reason for doing this.And if the army is attacking people in waziristan for sake of pakistani interest,can you mention that please?About jamat e islami You know army has always backed them.And it was army that wanted to do all the things which you are talking.Look I am not against army but those top rank generals. Hmm huring you is not my motive, but try to get the point of other person too.He might be right.

  86. November 3rd, 2007 2:36 pm

    MUshi to speak on tv at 11:45 ie in 10 min from now. Also cnn us edition is showing live stream coming from geo.
    Also BB is back. her workers are waiting for her at khi airport.

    May God take care of PK.

    dcdesi

  87. farrukh says:
    November 3rd, 2007 2:39 pm

    its shame to be writing our grieves on websites.but any ways its the only way left.Musharraf like a gentle man should accept the decision what ever that should be?But to me His advisors are taking him in Quick sand where there shall be no way except to DIE.May ALLAH bless our country and forgive our sins so that in future we dont have such a leader.My good wishes are with CJ:Iftikhar Chaudhary.

  88. Akif Nizam says:
    November 3rd, 2007 2:41 pm

    I think that this action has been taken in order to prepare for and implement a massive and co-ordinated effort against the militants in the northern regions. Obviously, we’ll know in 15 minutes after the Musharraf speech.

  89. Adnan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 2:45 pm

    @Jyoti: the time you made post, there was no such news at all. If you saying Indian media had become Jotshi then I can’t say. :-)

    Interesting thing is that reason of this action was actually associated to Supreme court(Precisely Iftikhar) were trying to release suicide bombers and terrorists by giving release orders.

    So general’s “Last Punch” is executed. One man’s tussle with another resulted this.

    @PatExpat: so can we safely call Liberals as “Baqiyat-e-Musharraf”[remnants of Musharraf]?

  90. Adnan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 2:48 pm

    Interesting. Local censorship continues. Pat you were right about it.

  91. Deewana Aik says:
    November 3rd, 2007 2:56 pm

    These have been discussed to death even on this forum…I don

  92. Deewana Aik says:
    November 3rd, 2007 2:58 pm

    My last comment was addressed to Hassan.

  93. Adnan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:00 pm

    If it’s all for northern region’s people then Musharraf done another grave mistake. Really he’s running toward his end. *shakes head*

    BTW, Bhai Nizam, for them it doesn’t matter whether there is martial or so called democracy. I wonder whether you or mush know about it?

  94. November 3rd, 2007 3:05 pm

    OPSSSS………… IS ANYTHING PERPATUAL IN THIS WORLD

    NOTHING EXCEPT GOD… …………..

    I M JUST WAITING TO LISTEN THAT INSTITUTION WHICH WAS NOT DESTROYED BY SO MANY SO CALLED RULERS IS BEING DESTROYED IN NATIONAL INTERST

  95. Sridhar says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:18 pm

    If you wish to listen to Musharraf’s speech live (without the stupid translation that the CNN transmission has) try CNN-IBN or ndtv.

    http://www.ibnlive.com
    http://ww.ndtv.com

  96. faraz says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:22 pm

    I will say General Kyani should have imposed martial law instead of Mush.

    The situtaion in Pak is out of control of civil society but in same time Mush have no confidence of public.

  97. D_a_n says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:22 pm

    @ Hassan….

    Its people like you…who make me start to believe that pakistani’s are collectively loosing their minds…
    Again with the Lal Masjid…those ghazi brothers were upto their necks in sectarian warfare in Pakistan and were ‘close buddies’ with that cursed Azam Tariq…people who advocated the wholesale genocide of Pakistan’s Shia MUSLIM population…how come I NEVER ever hear you and your ilk condemn them for this…condemn them whenever a suicide bomber kills innocent muslim bystanders….case in point being the pindi blast…in case you didnt notice..the Kaafir bomber took out two women..a mother and a dauther…and sent two little girls and their father to the hospital…
    that bomber got up in the morning himself…wore that belt thinking that he was on his path to paradise….his mind polluted by some azam tariq or some ghazi…yet…people like you and the larger pakistani public NEVER condemns this….wether it is the killing of the general public or the beheading of POWs…..disgusting……..
    just what is wrong with you people……i find it amazing how you can excuse just about any act of barbarism if the interests of those carrying out this barbarism cooincide with yours…
    intellectual and moral bankruptcy of the highest order….

    @ Deewana and Zain…
    keep on fighting the good fight lads….. :)

  98. syed ali raza says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:27 pm

    there u go some were asking for it they got it, so live with it i totally agree with MUSH since the SUO MOTO spree the SC was on had to be stopped, & iam just focusing on the fact that SC is solely responsible for letting go of certified TERRORISTs who r going about enforcing SHARIAT or at least trying to, of which no one in this forum wants any part of , & by the way why was there no outrage when thousands of YOUNG KARACHIITES were being massacared in mid 90s but every one seems to be very willing to shed CROC TEARS for these JIHADI THUGS, why such callous hypocrisy?? GO MUSH

  99. syed ali raza says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:28 pm

    slam dunk

  100. ajmsr says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:30 pm

    This rapid succession of events in Pakistan is as dangerous to world peace as the preemptive destruction of Iraq.

  101. Hassan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:33 pm

    @deewana
    Ok agreed with your latest comment. Well nothing much to say now except that it won’t be that easy for musharraf this time. What I can predict is clashes between lawyers and so called law enforcing agencies( better know as musharraf rule enforcing agencies).

  102. Hassan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:36 pm

    Anywayz check this link.Imran is giving interview to Dr Shaihid Masood and he has said that musharaf should be hanged according to constituion.This man has got guts.Thumbs up.Atleast someone has courage to speak.

  103. Hassan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:37 pm

    Sorry for got the link
    http://pkpolitics.com/

  104. Akif Nizam says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:38 pm

    ….is this for real !! Mush is quoting Abraham Lincoln in his speech ! …he is pleading to the West to understand his actions. Has he gone mad !!

    I’m done with him !

  105. Adnan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:40 pm

    as I was expecting. In entire speech, our honorable President was deeply hurt by the actions of Iftikhar and he had no other option left other than imposing Martial law Emergency.

    Justice Sabih telling on GEO that Mush had got the idea that He was going to lose in case so he imposed emergency.

    Unlike Zia who *did* atleast mentioned about elections after 90 days, Musharraf didn’t even say a word about election. I think future Baaqiyat-e-Musharraf should condemn this first before condemning Zia.

  106. syed ali raza says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:46 pm

    can some one plz call spade a spade plz, or do i have to bcz if i did the forum MOD is going to go crazy & remove my comment,
    beside the point that the AGENCIES r responsible for harboring the SWAT/WAZIRISTAN/NWFP elements, there has’nt been any condemnation from any of the SO CALLED DEMOCRATIC LEADERS of these PSYCHO THUGS, look at what IMRAN CON says he always blames the GOVT rather than calling these PSYCHOS what they are, why why plz answer why can not any single SO CALLED POLITICIAN say so , even this forum has not dared talk about the SWAT/WAZIRISTAN situation

  107. syed ali raza says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:51 pm

    BENAZIR the QUEEN of CORRUPTIONISTAN talking about civil institutions blahbalahabalah, plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  108. Abid says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:53 pm

    The Emergency is about the

  109. Adnan says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:56 pm

    @Abid:

    The Emergency is actually a big slap on face of *drunk* Pakistani nation. I wish we Pakistanis could understand how badly we 16 corores have been offended by a single person. yes by a SINGLE person!

  110. Deewana Aik says:
    November 3rd, 2007 3:57 pm

    I don’t understand what the commotion is about…we Pakistanis are stuck in a loop and more or less same things keep happing with different faces and with some difference in details. Basically we are a stupid bunch of people…being ruled by opportunists for a long time. And why not? We deserve them. Plus most politicians are in General

  111. Faysal says:
    November 3rd, 2007 4:02 pm

    I know, realistically, there is not a whole lot an average pakistani can do to fight this monster of military that overshadows his life, but at a minimum, every one can wear a black colored cloth on his arm, as a symbol of mourning, because today, believe it or not my friends, Pakistan is DEAD! I know I will be mourning starting tomorrow.

    F

  112. Anisa b says:
    November 3rd, 2007 4:03 pm

    May Allah swt bless our pakistan… but what musharraf said in his speech is true. There is no point in only having a democratic name.. we , and the three levels of government with function democratically also. freedom of speech and human rights comes second. After all, Musharraf was the one who GAVE media the right to speak. But if the right is not used responsibilty, then it must be taken away.
    I love that he quoted abraham lincoln, because al was in the same situation during the civil war in the us
    there is no point in saving a limb, but destroying the the whole body.

  113. November 3rd, 2007 4:04 pm

    Pakistan Bachau!

    See this link and please act http://www.otherpakistan.org/archive.html

    Feimanallah Pakistan

    Wasim

  114. syed ali raza says:
    November 3rd, 2007 4:06 pm

    i can not understand how some of us think that PAKISTAN is some heavenly CIVILIZED country with a ILLUSTRIOUS HISTORY & a strong tradition of democaracy which was being run smoothly until this MUSHARAF showed up from out of nowhere, how dare he !! PAKISTAN needs a slow march towards DEMOCRACY not a sudden jolt like some are preaching here & if any one who thinks that BENAZIR & SHARIF are proponents of DEMOCRACY , iam sorry to break the news to u my friend u r sadly mistaken, so let MUSH do his job rather than just making trouble!

  115. November 3rd, 2007 4:16 pm

    Syed Bhai,

    Two wrongs don’t make a right, I agree NS and BB and others are not the answer but neither is Mush. Our problem as a nation is we keep following the same leaders blindly, we never entertain any alternative forces, we say Imran Khan has one seat so why bother and thus he stays with the one seat because the establishment and the prevailing orthodcy want exactly that. In effect we do the devil’s handiwork ourselves by always jumping for PPP or PML so until we grow up as a people we will suffer the same fate.

    However an ‘other’ Pakistan can be made if we all desire it, see how at http://www.otherpakistan.org/archive.html

    Feimanallah Pakistan

    Wasim

  116. November 3rd, 2007 4:18 pm

    “Emergency Declared in Pakistan”….

    I thought it was there for the last 8 years or so…..

  117. November 3rd, 2007 4:23 pm

    Faisal Bhai,

    I don’t know what you wrote that Owais blocked but I have a solution. Why don’t you bring together all of your comments and make it a post or article and I will publish as a guest post at Other Pakistan, see my short call to the masses at http://www.otherpakistan.org/today2.html .

    Regardless do email me at wasim@otherpakistan.org

    Feimanallah Pakistan

    Wasim

  118. November 3rd, 2007 4:24 pm

    The blatantly off-handed, treasonous, and unconstitutional attacks by General Pervez Musharraf on the judiciary, media, and people of Pakistan have brought the true dictatorial character of the present regime into the lime-light. It has now been proved beyond doubt that Pakistan can never progress into any form of democracy without getting rid of the military from politics. All attempts to enter into any

  119. November 3rd, 2007 4:37 pm

    @Adnan:

    “There is no such news that CJ has been sacked”. Where are you living Adnan, the president has taken oath from the new Chief Justice. Do you need any more evidence that CJ has been sacked along with other senior judges.

    Frankly, we do not deserve democracy if we do not want to fight for it. The guns won once again!

    BTW: CJ has been taken in protective custoday at his home (Nazarband), Itezaz Ahsan has also been taken into home custody for a month.

  120. Ahmad R. Shahid says:
    November 3rd, 2007 4:39 pm

    The cruel tradition of gladiators continued in ancient Rome for 400 years. Burma is facing military occupation for the last 45 years. Communist Party has ruled China, rather ruthlessly, for 58 years now. Why do we expect that change would come in any shorter time in Pakistan?

  121. November 3rd, 2007 4:45 pm

    SC Judges join the list of the disappeared, gone have almost all the names, with Doggar the dog is on it as the CJ, see link here:

    http://www.supremecourt.gov.pk//intro-judges.htm

    SHAME, SHAME

  122. Qazi Atiq says:
    November 3rd, 2007 4:48 pm

    Well i don’t blame Musharraf, for all what we are going through. We (The educated masses) as a nation have become too insensitive to the cause of nation, we will comfortably sit in our TV lounges in AC or Heaters watch News channels have a heated debate with our family and friend, but when the original time to act comes we will shy away from doing any thing out of our comfort zone. Now i know this will come blunt to all of us (including me) but how many actually went out to stop the lal-masjid operation we all saw what was going on and commented even on this site heavily its wrong or right but no one went out in support or against
    this is what is an active nation is
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20915256/
    till we who have a little knowledge and education go out to make a change it will not come, these leaders will keep selling our souls, while we don’t even go out to vote. Wake up every one before it gets too late!
    and Waseem for gods sake stop advertising you site in every comment! it is looking lame specially in this grave situation

  123. November 3rd, 2007 5:19 pm

    very critical situation for pakistan,if these types of practices more prolong.no wonder to say that pakistan no more survive minimum maximum 2 to 3 years more,totally masive and out of order,then result some one asked that there is no geographical stand in the map of 2012 for pakistan,that would seem to be much closer,that those think tankers pridict the right thing which is infornt of recent senerio.

    bs bahi ab to allah he hafiz hey pakistan ka.

  124. Khurram says:
    November 3rd, 2007 5:22 pm

    A few weeks ago someone attacking Musharraf’s decision to ignore the court’s ruling and deport Nawaz again said something like: “At least previous rulers used to take over the court and dismiss thejudges rather than risk an unfavorable ruling. What Musharraf is doing is much worse”. Well, I hope that person is happy now.

  125. November 3rd, 2007 5:50 pm

    inlightend moderation: dear the word inlightend moderation still i cant understand in which cater mushraf drums sound well that inlightend moderation is the name of one man show. or to perserve the right of any librel pakistani and whom pakistani those governce pakistan two times,one who was came but not cross the airport belt,and other came with warm welcome and seems attack by agencies,and get back to there’s destination,and uninformally if that body land here shall back from where they arrive,is this is the way of coliation.

  126. Naseer says:
    November 3rd, 2007 5:54 pm

    Dear All,
    Its hapened before, its happened again–
    Back to Oblivion !!!!
    Naseer
    – ps: don’t cry for me Argentina–

  127. Kumail says:
    November 3rd, 2007 6:01 pm

    Why are the people turning a blind eye to the fast rising wave of extremism that is on the verge of engulfing the nation as a whole.
    Our troops are becoming victims of hate and humiliation. Their heads are being chopped of in public in their own homelands by the so called purveyors of Islam. That no way to treat your fellow human beings, country men and people who uphold the security of the nation.
    Today its Swat, tomorrow it would the back alleys of Pindi and Lahore. If action is not taken to restrict these gooons or as someone earlier on rightly called them, the kharijites, then the doomsday scenario that several have eluded to on this forum is not at all a far fetched idea.
    With the CJ taking up role of a wannabe vigilante, it was apparent that the bigger picture was out of his sight. That he wasnt able to comprehend the gravity of the situation and the need of the day to first protect the nation from the most imminent of threats and then consider what matters on a micro level.
    It saddens me that we are facing this situation, its not in the interest of any ruler, politician or individual and specially not in the interest of the nation at large. I am certain and hopeful that Musharaf would now indulge in a quick and rather messy encounter with the extremists. Who comes out on the top would determine the future direction and sustainability of Pakistan.
    I can only hope and pray that Musharaf comes out victorious and not the Jihadist who have maligned the body of our nation like an overdose of Cocaine.

  128. Viqar Minai says:
    November 3rd, 2007 6:02 pm

    This is not emergency.

    Why is everyone referring to it as such? Whatever this chUN chUN ka murabba is, an “emergency” it is not.

    Emergency is a constitutional provisions which only curtails certain civil liberties.

    Declaration of emergeny has to be ratified by the SC; this one was not. Not only was it not ratified, it was rejected and declared null and void by the Pakistan SC.

    Thereupon, a PCO was promulgated, and the constitution was suspended . The provision of emergency permits neither the suspension of the constitution, nor can a PCO be promulgated under it. Both these acts are only possible under “Martial Law”.Martial law? Ssssh!!!

    The dissenting judges of the SC were, of course, shown the door. A new CJ has been sworn under the PCO; as such he (automatically) upholds the suspension of the constitution.

    The really funny thing is that all the existing assemblies continue to exist and remain fully functional. So says the biggest general, and he is an “honorable” man. Never mind that the MNAs and the MPAs had taken oath under the same, now defunct, constitution which could not save the jobs of the dissenting SC judges. Shouldn’t they have been given their marching orders as well, along with the constitution.

    But of course Shuj of Guj and his cohorts were having none of it.

    So how does one crack this chestnut? Elementary, my dear Watson. In virtue of the powers vested in him, by him, the biggest general has now Christened “Martial Law” as “Emergency”.

    Presto! Problem solved.

  129. Faisal says:
    November 3rd, 2007 6:05 pm

    @Viqar ….Well said

  130. Fazeel says:
    November 3rd, 2007 6:08 pm

    ALL,

    Dont worry, this emergency will not hurt you(Common men).

    Haq Allah kar bhalla to ho bhalla.

    my two cents:)

  131. Faisal says:
    November 3rd, 2007 6:10 pm

    Dear Wasim keep it up!!! I was not trying to stop you but wanted to tell the webmasters that every revolution starts with inflammation. And I dont fear anybody. Yesterday I had a meeting with the President Local Bar Association and was pretty vocal. I was called by some so called Major to stop saying things about Musharraf otherwise I will be sorted out. LOL. Well if everybody just goes to sleep then may be we are talking about PAKISTAN for the last time. People were saying such things in 1971.They were stopped. Nobody cared. NO EAST PAKISTAN today. IF we stop today..then God forbid NO P

  132. Parvez says:
    November 3rd, 2007 6:10 pm

    By abrogating the constitution, Mushy has declared himself an outlaw leading a gun trotting mafia. Anybody supporting him is also outside the law. When he says that citizens have no rights, and if he is citizen of Pakistan, then he does not himself have any legal rights. It should an open season on him and his supporters. This will lead to anarchy and may be a civil war. If people of Pakistan do not take a stand now, it is going to get much worse.
    As a start, people should wear black bands to show their sentiments.

  133. Imran says:
    November 3rd, 2007 6:24 pm

    We Pakistanis are always crying about Mushy, yet we are not willing to rise up and be counted on streets, thus we deserve the citizenship of a failed nation state. Kudos to CJ for fighting the American fed.

  134. Javaid Aziz says:
    November 3rd, 2007 6:30 pm

    This was said in democratic Presidential debate:
    “”You cannot be a President of the United States who’s wanton in his expression of violence,” Kucinich said. “There’s a lot of people who need care. He might be one of them. If there isn’t something wrong with him, then there’s something wrong with us. This, to me, is a very serious question.”
    If you trace Musharraf sayings and his actions, you wonder, if he is also one of them who need care. His official biography on his Presidential web site talks of a court martial. (He escaped it due to 1965 war). And he has posted a testimonial from a British General on his web site (read it).
    Birds of the feather flock together. Musharraf has decided to burn his country before he is gone. Read times of India. The verdict against Musharraf was typed and was to be signed on Monday. I admire the courage of the Judges who took suo moto action to declare emergency (it is Martial Law—CNN) illegal and are under arrest at an undisclosed location.
    They all end like this.

  135. November 3rd, 2007 7:02 pm

    Faisal Bhai,

    I salute your passion, please do send me an email at wasim@otherpakistan.org when you have a minute so the discussion can continue even after this ATP post. Maybe we can work together to create a better Pakistan.

    By the way my offer of a guest post remains so let me know what you think via above email.

    Feimanallah Pakistan

    Wasim

  136. pindiwalla says:
    November 3rd, 2007 7:09 pm

    Good move by Mush. The CJ and his corrupt cronies were beginning to have the God complex! Good riddance. We can now do ahead and take Lal Masjid back from the terrorists that the Supreme Court wanted to run the Masjid.

  137. Anwar says:
    November 3rd, 2007 7:22 pm

    Bad odor was in the air for quite some time and now we found the rotten fish.
    It is only a matter of time when our pet on the leash is going to be put to sleep by his masters…
    Let us hope there is no bloodshed – specially that of the poor people living off of daily wages.
    Best wishes to the nation that has to endure these unfortunate events.

  138. Faraz says:
    November 3rd, 2007 7:49 pm

    This may be a blessing in disguise. U.S. seems ready to pull the plug on Musharraf. And internal opposition from the army commanders may finally end Musharraf’s joy ride. Lets hope.

  139. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 3rd, 2007 7:58 pm

    Before only one designated group of Pakistanis
    were targetted with full artilary, now all the canons
    are turned towards all Pakistanis, you have seen the
    ordinance, all the “liberties ” are suspended and
    ” jithon di khoti authey an khaloti ” the foreign
    agenda is applicated word by word, Politicians
    have failed to their bones. They should retire now.

    Many comments on the subject are nothing but
    a polution. “Sanmp bhag gaiya hum lakeer pi’it rehay
    hein abb”.

  140. November 3rd, 2007 8:06 pm

    Please sign the petition against the emergency and let world know we want democracy and not authoritarian rule. You will find petition here http://www.petitiononline.com/demo07/petition.html. Please forward this message to your friends who might like to sign the petition

  141. Shaji says:
    November 3rd, 2007 8:06 pm

    A note to Owais and Adil Bhai…. Following Geo’s protest, I suggest we (whoever owns a website) should go colorless for protest.

  142. mozang bijli says:
    November 3rd, 2007 9:32 pm

    Hats of to ifftikhar chaudry and others who stood up for right.

  143. paklawyer says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:14 pm

    latest here: paklawyer.wordpress.com

  144. mozang bijli says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:20 pm

    @nadeem yousaf
    sir the petition is not active.

  145. Shaji says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:34 pm

    That petition url has a [dot] at the end….. remove that or click here.. http://www.petitiononline.com/demo07/petition.html

  146. Saleem Toor says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:41 pm

    Latest on the freedom of expression…

    Police raid on TV channels:

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/11/03/pakistan.media/

  147. Israr says:
    November 3rd, 2007 10:50 pm

    I Need HELP , con not sit and watch ,have to do something ,It is my request ot every one that posts comments or those who write on the web please only use titles to its rightful owners, Chief Justice is going to be the one we call chief justice.
    Also no color pictures of those that will have are “making their moon Kala ” supporting this crime against the nation.
    I have created a petition please sign that ,even if you think it wont make a difference ,do it for it would make a difference to me. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/justicepakistan

  148. ali raza says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:37 pm

    Ch. Ifti could have chosen a path of reconcilliation, and providing justice to Pakistanis – his job, after his restoration to the head of the apex court. Instead he chose a path of direct confrontation. PPP throngs, arranged by aitizaz ahsan, along GT road made him think he was riding a popular wave and that got to his head. Then he did what everyone in Pakistan does. He started abusing his newfound power. Only problem, the power still rests and rightly so with the president. So Ifti boy got knocked down. The better man won. Good fight.

  149. pervaiz mir says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:43 pm

    After listening the speech of the dictator of the century the following questions arise which need food of thought for the intellectuals of Pakistan.
    1.The dictator is asking the nation what is going on in the country which he has ruled with absolute power.
    2.The dictator is applauding the successful completion of the present government and at the same time giving a painful picture of the past 2 years.
    3.The dictator after recording his name in the Guienes book of world record for destroying the constitution for the second time talks about democracy and that of removing the hurdles in it.He is the main hurdle.Some please tell him.
    4.The dictator is again trying to set a new record in the history to rule it without the peoples will.
    5.The dictator in the PCO shamelessly states the the media shall not air any thing that is vulgar where as he is the pioneer of vulgarity in Pakistan.
    This story goes on and on and shall never end in Pakistan unless PEOPLE LIKE HIM are brought to task once and for all.The country shall be and is hijacked by army and the people of Pakistan shall never be out of these vicious clutches up till such time they do not sacrifice their life’s for this purpose.
    Delivering speeches about the fruits of democracy is not going to solve the problem.

  150. jyoti says:
    November 3rd, 2007 11:49 pm

    why is cnn saying “Pakistan under Martial Law”?
    http://edition.cnn.com/

  151. ManDark says:
    November 4th, 2007 12:30 am

    Please call it what it is,

    MARTIAL LAW

    Aaj TV was the only television network to call it what it is.

    http://pkpolitics.com/2007/11/04/final-transmission-of-aaj-tv/

    This is why it was the only television channel to suffer the worst.

    http://www.brecorder.com/index.php?id=647509&currPageNo=1&query=&search=&term=&supDate=

  152. AM says:
    November 4th, 2007 12:32 am

    Protest “Martial Law”?

    When we Pakistanis cannot even protest something even more elemental as the freedom to practice any faith we desire, the freedom to speak our minds as we wish, then what right do we have to be protesting the usurpation of our democratic rights ever so often?

    We are morally and intellectually bankrupt as a people and as a nation, when we stand silent as suicide bombers take the lives of soldier and innocent alike – we stand silent as businesses and schools are threatened and attacked under the guise of Islam – we stand silent as soldiers who would prevent these acts are beheaded and tortured, even going to the extent of justifying those acts of barbarism by saying “well they shouldn’t be fighting their Muslim brothers.

    What is more important, protesting the barbarity unleashed by savages in the name of Islam, or the denial of suffrage? Even both would be acceptable, but while hundreds of thousands can gather, riot and burn over “cartoons” and “democracy”, human life, liberty and freedom apparently have no importance.

  153. Ghalib says:
    November 4th, 2007 12:34 am

    i support Mushy’s martial law as this is what happens to dead nations! a Nation that never stood against the execution of the democratically elected PM Z A Bhutto. This is what happens that his daughter joins in hands with the dictators! People have learned helplessness!they wont come on streets as they know what will happen? 5 years of govt and another martial law?
    LOL this army is best conquers its own territory after every 5 years!
    Hail to Mushy and hail to pak army! Men at their Best!

  154. Harris Siddiqui says:
    November 4th, 2007 12:35 am

    I did not jump into the discussion all day today. I just wanted to see the heated arguments and the overly emotional crowd of people did not disappoint. All you guys who think that the rule of democracy will magically appear in Pakistan overnight are fooling yourselves.

    Those who think that this is the worst thing in the history of Pakistan should look at the past year. We had scores of bombing, hundreds of soldiers captured or killed, citizens of Pakistan slaughtered in public, militants performing a flag march inside Pakistani territory, parallel governments and courts established and honest businessmen threatened and you still think that this action is the worst thing to have happened to Pakistan?

    Like few before me said, the supreme court started abusing its powers. They had no right to administer the government yet they practically dictated their way to make lives miserable for Mushy.

    Today Iftikhar Chaudry looks like a hero who stood up to a dictator and the emotional people are praising his act but don’t forget that he is the same person who took oath from a dictator under the PCO of 1999 when the constitution was in abeyance. As a matter of fact he took two oaths under the PCO, one as the Judge of the Apex court and the second as the CJ. To those who are calling Dogar names, just remember that Iftikhar was at Dogar’s place few years ago and did exactly what Dogar did yesterday.

  155. Harris Siddiqui says:
    November 4th, 2007 12:49 am

    Let me make a correction of my earlier post. Iftikhar Chaudry Did not take two oats under PCO of 1999. He actually took three. One as a CJ of BHC, one as the Judge of the apex court and one as the CJP.

  156. Mahmood says:
    November 4th, 2007 12:50 am

    The political parties demand for constitution like they are the most law abiding people in the world. They blame Pervaiz Musharraf for power hunger as if there motives are any different. There is not a single major party that do not have a life chairmanship in place. Even the chief justice was so out of his mind that he was asking Islamabad IG everyother day on somoto. Why we are not crying about CJ abuse of power if all we care about is rule of law.

    Atleast, with President Musharraf’s power hunger, I saw many development work in Karachi. How many flyovers and road were constructed in the so called democratic days. What was the activity in Karachi stock exchange in 90′s. What was the education budget in democratic days of NS and BB.

    The anti-musharraf people (politician, Judiciary and Taliban)) are so dumb that with only 15 days left in shedding his uniform and 2 month in election, they made such direct confontration with the government that it gave them the excuse to impose emergency. I even doubt there intentions when they call for dfemocracy. They themselves create situation of emergency.

  157. Najam Khan says:
    November 4th, 2007 12:51 am

    It’s a disgrace for the 1st time in life to receive a SMS calling the Paki Army a Kuti-Army. But I think our fauj now diserves this.

  158. Eidee Man says:
    November 4th, 2007 1:00 am

    Today is a sad, sad, day for Pakistan. But we will make it worse if we start fighting amongst ourselves and doubting each other’s intentions.

    Also, please do not talk badly about the army at large; the majority of the army is composed of men from poor backgrounds who have the guts to defend our country. Just because they are commanded by power hungry generals doesnt mean that it’s their fault.

  159. Mahmood says:
    November 4th, 2007 1:11 am

    Another reality check. The power hungry general has given the system of local government that gives democracy to the grass root level. That made a middle class man a leader and chance to change things in his area and lot of them did made the change. The so called democratic champions like BB is asking to roll back the whole system. Who is more dictating and power hungry, you decide.

  160. Harris Siddiqui says:
    November 4th, 2007 1:11 am

    @Najam,

    Today people who are calling Pakistani Army “Kutti-Army” will be begging the COAS tomorrow to rid them of BB, NS and the like if they ever come to power again. What does that tell you about the nature of our people?

  161. Ajmal says:
    November 4th, 2007 1:13 am

    @Harris

    Well do you think it was supreme court who created these problems.and which honest buisnessman are you talking.Those who just stock the wheat for more time to take it’s price aboce the range of even a middle class.The parrallel government you are talking was started by your beloved general zia.
    And your comment that emotional people are praising CJ act(mind you he is still CJ constitutionally), well he has the honour of being first Judge to say no to military dictator.
    If you want to know what great verdicts he has given then go ask steel mill workers,go ask families of those people whose sons were taken into custody without any solid evidence against him(just to make us happy), go ask those people who don’t have enough money to even buy wheat.If he has taken notice on these things,its because government is doing nothing.Your so called governement didn’t have the courage to do any thing themselves so if CJ was doing they felt ashamed and decided to punish CJ.
    I might agree with some of your point that he took oath from musharaf and he might did wrong things but could you name one person in your respected governement including your high rank generals who have not done corruption.
    You people say he was just trying to take revenge from musharraf.(I guess you must watch PTV only and whatever they say it seems like 100% truth to you),well he CJ just wanted to do what a real judge should do.Just try to show respect to those people that work for you.

  162. Mahmood says:
    November 4th, 2007 1:23 am

    @Ajmal, you are complaining about only watching PTV as if Pakistanis are so use to of open media . How many news channels and criticism on government we were watching before Mussharraf?

  163. Shehzad Ahmed Mir says:
    November 4th, 2007 1:23 am

    First reaction, Zia ul Haq’s ”bhoot” is back to haunt us again! However and realistically when one reads through the declared promulgation and reads into the message of President Musharraf last night two things become absolutely clear.

    1. The SC was indeed meddling too much into the executive. Instead of being harmonious it was rather a constant clash which was retarding decesion making by the executive.

    2. The spate of suicide bombing, radicalism and extremism have indeed gone out of control with little or no fear of the law enforcer. Media, in particular the likes of Geo/ Hamid Mir/ Iftikhar and ARYONE, were going over their heads with quite brazen & irreposnsible reporting and visuals.

    If we look at our alternative options vis-a-vis proverbial democracy, we have literally to choose between, BENAZIR and/ or NAWAZ. Both are unnacceptable again as PM’s. Our political parties have again failed to come up with alternative leadership and are still the basions of dynasty rules.

    This action also serves US interests in this region. At least now the government would be able to round-up the ”black” extremists and would be able to take stern action against the likes of Maulana Fazlullah who had literally taken this country as hostage to their antiquated beliefs and pre-historic implemention mechanisms. Let us get rid of these extremists once and for all and purge them from our social fabric before they kill other muslims ruthlessly in the name of Islam.

    Emergency is not the answer to our problems, democracy is. But in the absence of clear democratic bollards, such actions are not completely out of place either.

  164. Ajmal says:
    November 4th, 2007 1:42 am

    @Mahmood.
    Well at that time no one also throw out the honurable judges from supreme court.and if at that time internet facilty would have been available at larger scale you would have seen all this too.

  165. Harris Siddiqui says:
    November 4th, 2007 1:59 am

    @Ajmal,

    You may have gotten an idea from my post that I am pro Musharraf. Reality is far from it. I am only Pro Pakistan, people mean nothing to me.

    The points I made about Iftikhar Chaudry were just to put his “heroic” acts in perspective. What moral ground does he have to be the beacon of justice and the nemesis of dictatorship when he himself took three oaths from the same dictator to reach to the top under a PCO and then ratified that very PCO in a judicial ruling??

    When you talk about the great rulings he has passed, don’t forget the people he has let go that were accused of grave acts of terrorism and most certainly don’t forget the mothers who have lost their children because these terrorists were let go to commit their crimes again. I don’t have any proof of it just like you don’t have any proof of their innocence but my scenario could be very real.

    As for the corruption, I am sure there are a lot of corrupt government officials just like there are a lot of corrupt clerks, bankers and businessmen. We are corrupt by nature and our leaders are nothing more than our reflections. As for the normal crying of Pakistani people that middle class can not afford flour, nothing will ever change. We will always cry over the price of wheat even though wheat in Pakistan is amongst the cheapest compared to other markets. I bet you a sack of wheat that if Government of Pakistan tomorrow starts giving away one sack of wheat per person per month, The people will cry and complain why they are not getting two.

  166. Mahmood says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:03 am

    @Ajmal, so it was ok to keep the media in tight control by the so called democratic leaders?

  167. Harris Siddiqui says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:04 am

    @ Ajmal,
    Forgot to mention that I don’t watch PTV or any other Pakistani channel for that matter. I used all of one and a half ounce of brain matter to take a position on this issue :-)

  168. Ajmal says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:12 am

    @harris!

    Well good use your 1 and a half ounce brain without knowing the facts.May be you have someone is government.Carry on there propaganda using your brain dictated by ….

  169. Faraz says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:17 am

    Anyone got a link to the video of Mush’s address? I have seen a clip or two, but not the whole thing.

  170. Faraz says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:26 am

    We remain so fundamentally divided. Or is it just me?

    - Is Musharraf a power hungry dictator or Pakistan’s savior from extremism?

    - Are the militants’ actions justified, or are they savages out to destroy the peace of our land?

    - Is Benaziar a corrupt politician, or a “great leader”?

  171. Ajmal says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:27 am

    @Mahmood
    Well if you are so ignorant then let me brief you.Musharraf allowed freedom of media for his own benefit but when the same media start criticizing him, he don’t have the guts to listen to that and issue pemra ordinance.

  172. Deewana Aik says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:28 am

    Are Lahore, Islamabad, Karachi Metroblogs accessible to others? I can’t seem to access them from UK as of now.

    http://lahore.metblogs.com/

  173. Harris Siddiqui says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:29 am

    @ Ajmal,
    Seems like I know a lot more facts than you. Just try to think rationally and don’t get emotional just because others are getting emotional on the subject. And no, I don’t have anyone in the government.

    The undeniable facts are that

    1-Iftikhar is no saint as he is portrayed.
    2-The law and order situation demands strong government without SC creating hurdles

    CJ tried to have a gunfight duel with Mushy but came to the fight without a gun. Were you really expecting a different ending?

  174. Mahmood says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:39 am

    @Ajmal,

    What was his “personal benefit” in opening the media rather than keeping it state controlled as by the democratic leaders?

  175. Harris Siddiqui says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:42 am

    @ Faraz

    Is Lachay dar paratha the real paratha or is it the plain one? :-)

    This is democracy at its best my friend. Embrace the differences because every nation is polarized on critical issues.

  176. Ajmal says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:46 am

    @mahmood
    Well personal benefit is that he wanted to portrait his so called great image in front of whole world that he allows the press to work freely.

  177. omar r. quraishi says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:56 am

    To watch geo live go to http://pakistanvision.com

  178. AUK says:
    November 4th, 2007 3:07 am

    Viqar, Another thing that the general has done is to outdo himself, by imposing Martial Law twice, the second one on top of his dictatorial regime; no precedent even in our black history. The clock has been turned back, and seems like the abyss that we have fallen in is getting deeper.
    Since when a suicide bomber needed the approval of a renegade judiciary to sanctify his acts. All those claiming that this will somehow curb extremism are living in a fantasy world. This is not an attack on extremists, this is an attack on the only voice of dissent left in the society.
    I don’t know the details of article 6 of the constitution, but according to Imran, it applies in this case, which means that Mush and his goons have committed an act of treason, punishable by death.

  179. faiza says:
    November 4th, 2007 3:10 am

    It’s disgusting that we are ruled by such people who are interested only in their own benifits. politics is a dirty game now. there’s this dirty game everywhere.
    may allah keep us safe from such cruel and agitating situations.
    Ameen

  180. Mahmood says:
    November 4th, 2007 3:11 am

    @Ajmal,

    The same chance was for the democratic leaders, to portray themselves as great leaders, infact open press is part of democracy, why do you think political people were unable to free the press while a dictator did for whatever reasons?

  181. Ahmed Karim says:
    November 4th, 2007 3:13 am

    At folowing websites you can watch Geo. Http://pakistanvision.com and Http://www.idesitv.com

  182. omar r. quraishi says:
    November 4th, 2007 3:20 am

    AUK — and the thing is that the second time he has done it against himself — as i read on a foreign website, it is more like a ‘self-coup’

  183. Ajmal says:
    November 4th, 2007 3:23 am

    @Mahmood
    Well I am not here to defend earlier political governments specially those of BB and NZ.(infact I am very much against BB too).But the point is that even those leaders didn’t do such thing.This is the darkest era in Pakistani history after 1971 incident.

  184. saqhi says:
    November 4th, 2007 3:28 am

    General Musharaf took very bad step?
    he show that he is the worest leader of pakistan and he is not in favouir of pakistan?so he is not able to keep leading pakistan.
    so now musharaf has to go back and leave the pakistan?he increased the rate of bomb blast and terorisam?
    so GO MUSHARAF GO

  185. Aqil Sajjad says:
    November 4th, 2007 3:35 am

    An e-mail from a friend comments on a line from the PCO:

    “WHEREAS constant interference in executive functions, including but not limited to the control of terrorist activity, economic policy, price controls, downsizing of corporations and urban planning, has weakened the writ of the government…”
    So economic development, according to the Omniscient dictator means unbridled free for all loot & plunder that was going on in Pakistan in the last several
    years. I don’t know of any civilized nation that doesn’t check cartels & oligopolies and doesn’t prevent its assets from being sold at throw-away prices.
    If it wasn’t sufficient that our government was single-handedly INCAPABLE of taking these anti-monopoly measures, and then when the supreme court tried
    to fill the vacuum, it even took offense at it!
    What a shameful lot we have got upon our heads.

  186. Aqil Sajjad says:
    November 4th, 2007 3:40 am

    Another ‘gem’ from Musharraf and his supporters is the riciculous claim that the media is playing a disruptive role.
    The same Musharraf’s government does nothing against illegal FM stations run by terrorists and then he and his apologists blame the mainstream channels for showing the mirror.

  187. Mahmood says:
    November 4th, 2007 3:41 am

    I am also not a fan of Musharraf, but you have to see reality. Military should not rule the country, there is no doubt about it, but the point I am trying to make is that when I see the hypocrisy, immaturity and undemocratic ways of Political forces and Judiciary, I found Musharraf more democratic from some of his actions (opening the media, local government democracy etc.).

    How many polictical parties are there in the country where you can join them and have your own say in party decisions in a democratic way.

    You can only blame Army and Musharraf when everything was fine in our democratic and Judiciary system and suddenly Musharraf took over to rule the country.

    Tell me one thing, do you think if today Musharraf leave the power and ask these democratic leader, Judiciary and media to take care of the country, how do you suggest things will go. Can the democratic parties settle down the power issue without any bloody conflict among themselves?

  188. Ajmal says:
    November 4th, 2007 3:50 am

    Well ofcourse musharraf can’t leave like that.He needs to set up a care taker government and then leave.And theat goernment will need to hold elections in whih BB and NZ should not be allowed to take part or become PM.
    Well try to give Imran Khan a chance and he will prove his worth.
    I am blaming army also.I still love my army but I am against those generals who have hijacked country several times. These generals were the ones who didn’t hesitate to go that far to let ayub khan win against Fatma Jinaah.

  189. Adnan says:
    November 4th, 2007 4:03 am

    @Ghalib:

    Cacha jaan aap k last post ney mujhe aap ka he ek nadir shair yaad dila diya

    Bazicha-e-Atfal hey Dunya Merey Agay
    Hota Hey shab-o-roz Tamasha Merey Agay

    where dunya=Pakistan

  190. ali raza says:
    November 4th, 2007 4:35 am

    @ajmal, Fatima Jinnah supported Gen. Ayub when he came to power through a coup. Its our pattern.

  191. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 4th, 2007 4:48 am

    Ali Reza,

    ” Mohtarema Fatima Jinnah supported Gen. Ayub.”

    Pakistan’s CDA has indeed Garbage disposal problems.

  192. November 4th, 2007 6:55 am

    A plan of action beyond a usual statement of condemnation

    Friends of South Asia (www.friendsofsouthasia.org) is meeting on Sunday, November 4, at 6 pm at Newark City library for its Eid-Diwali program and to brainstorm on devising a strategy to deal with the present political crisis in Pakistan. Here is the first draft of a plan of action FOSA is working on and would like to discuss in the meeting.

    C.

    With the imposition of Emergency on November 3 General Pervez Musharraf has plunged Pakistan into terrible uncertainty. Whereas General Pervez Musharraf says he took the precarious step to save Pakistan, no one doubts the only thing Musharraf is interested in saving is his own grip on power.

    We condemn Pervez Musharraf

  193. Ahmad Tariq says:
    November 4th, 2007 7:08 am

    My countrymen who cannot view GEO TV on their TV’s. Listen to LIVE GEO TV telecast on http://www.geo.tv

    12 out of 17 judges of the SC have refused to take oath: we must be proud of our judges.

  194. Neena says:
    November 4th, 2007 8:05 am

    I think all blogs in Pakistan are going through strict censorship. I’m unable to submit regular comments in KMB and LMB or maybe those guys are being extra cautious about Army’s criticism and I wonder why?

  195. Khairulbashar Siddiqui says:
    November 4th, 2007 8:27 am

    It doesn’t look like that this forum represents any more intilligent and sober Pakistanis. Instead of giving empty slogans talk about alternate. Find any decent leader and then blame Musharraf. He is still better than any body in Pakistan leadership. Give him a break. He is the only one, who has not looted Pakistan. Look at the records of Benazir, Nawaz, and even your CJ. Come on , be honest. A strong and peacefull Pakistan is always better than a democratic Pakistan controlled by Thugs, Jagirdars, and Zamindars.

  196. Neena says:
    November 4th, 2007 8:35 am

    Khairulbashar Siddiqui,

    When civilian government doesn’t do their job well they are accountable to the Army though they should be accountable to the people but that’s another story for another time. BUT when Army does something wrong like not protecting the border or Pakistan soil then we blame civilian leader. Musharaf is doing one thing right by teaching lessons to these brainless criminals who are war lords and drug smugglers and killers. But it’s out of my mind how can one smuggle weapons in Islamabad where security is so tight and it took several months to solve that Lal Mosque thing when it could only be done in days by cutting off power and water.

  197. Timur says:
    November 4th, 2007 9:13 am

    What is this love affair with Justice Chaudhry? They all are egoistic powerhungry playing with the sentiments of 160million

  198. Neena says:
    November 4th, 2007 9:14 am

    Nawaz isn’t allowed to return. Iftikhar Chaudhry, Aitzaz Ahsan, Imran Khan, and Javed Hashmi (acting president of PML) are arrested and they all happen to be from Punjab. I see a trend here or it could be Chaudries are getting cold feet.

  199. omar r. quraishi says:
    November 4th, 2007 9:23 am

    Editorial, The News, Nov 4, 2007

    Black Saturday
    Sunday, November 04, 2007
    November 3 will go down as another dark day in Pakistan’s political and constitutional history. It can be safely said that this is one of General Pervez Musharraf’s gravest errors of judgment, and a sorry indication that nothing has been learnt from the mistakes of the past. The imposition of emergency rule and suspension of the 1973 Constitution announced on Saturday is only going to destroy the very institutions that this country crucially needs for evolving into a true democracy, particularly the judiciary, media and parliament. It will further fracture an already weakened federation, alienate those who have grievances against the centre, such as the Tribal Areas and Balochistan, and push whatever little credibility the government had down a very deep abyss. Such a draconian step will also have little effect on our ability to fight terrorism and extremism. It would be fair to assume that the emergency has been imposed only to target two institutions: the judiciary and the media but it may well have poisonous effects on another: i.e. parliament. Those in the ruling PML-Q will be foolish not to realise that the legislative branch of government has received a death blow as well since the imposition has come from an army general.

    The fact that the official statement carrying the emergency announcement used ‘army chief’ rather than president to refer to the authority behind the promulgation is significant as well indicating that perhaps what we have on our hands is a de facto martial law — one in which the assemblies will function but only to give the impression that democracy has not been hampered in any manner. Furthermore, the timing of the proclamation, a few days before an expected judgment on a case that could have potentially declared the president’s re-election null and void, is such that very few people in this country, or overseas for that matter, will buy the argument that it has been imposed to arrest the deteriorating law and order situation and to allow the government to focus on fighting extremism and militancy. It will be difficult to remove public doubts that it has only been imposed to target a superior judiciary that has finally found some spine and is carrying out its constitutional role of acting as a watchdog on the executive, which in Pakistan’s case was often overstepping its constitutionally-defined authority. As for the media, the fact that private television channels were blacked out for the better part of Saturday is a grim indication of the government’s intentions. However, here too, such bans are essentially counter-productive and will be seen by ordinary Pakistanis as a desperate act of a regime bent on shielding itself from criticism.

    Meanwhile, the Chief Justice of Pakistan has been informed that his services were no longer required. In any case, the promulgation of a provisional constitutional order would mean that most of the judges of the Supreme Court who had in recent weeks taken a brave and defiant stand against the government and the military would be pushed aside and not be invited to take a fresh oath; many would in all probability decline such an offer. As news of the imposition of emergency spread, eight members of the Supreme Court defiantly struck down the proclamation, which could well trigger off a new stand-off. The future is not looking good — not least because the president’s move is bound to have massive repercussions and a severe response from all segments of civil society. Such acts are indefensible at any time, more so in this day and age.

  200. November 4th, 2007 9:30 am

    Call to Pakistani Humwatanau,

    Where are the protests, the tyres burning?, why do we as a nation criticise the leaders and say they are not worth following and now given they are all arrested sit on our backsides doing nothing for ourselves.

    Let me make it clear, our FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS HAVE GONE, that is yours and mine, not just Benazir’s or Imran Khan’s. So forget the political riff raff and for once my Pakistani humwatanau STAND UP FOR YOURSELF.

    Anyhing less will mean Pakistan will go to the dogs, see my heartfelt call at http://www.otherpakistan.org/archive.html

    Feimanallah Pakistan

    Wasim

  201. MB says:
    November 4th, 2007 9:43 am
  202. samira says:
    November 4th, 2007 9:54 am

    Burning tyres is not an option. What we must do is keep the protests peaceful. There are many out there who are trying their best to make their voice heard. Unfortunately some have already been arrested. This is a sad time for our country. I feel that the time has come for all us moderate, educated people to make our voice heard. One of the big problems is our apathy. We as a nation are reluctant to do things to bring about change for ourselves. If we all sit back and watch the news channels and accept what is happening – no change will happen. We should all try and make our voice heard.Whether this is to BBC or CNN, we should all make our little contribution and believe me it is very little

  203. Mansoor says:
    November 4th, 2007 10:10 am

    While I’m no fan of Musharaf, I do think that our last hope in Pakistan is a strong central governing authority that is not anwswerable to the Mullah infested Pakistani public…so before you guys get too worked up with this emergency thing, don’t forget that other options are not that pretty either (think Mullah fazlul rehman and his elk). It’s a fight between Mullahs and Muslims, pick your side carefully…

  204. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 4th, 2007 10:23 am

    Facing so many long, enormous, moralist comments,
    my this humble verse will not complicate things to
    understand with two wide opened eyes and ears:

    Ye roodad-e-Qafas hey hamnashin kis say shikayat hay
    Jab ai’iy fasl-e-gul, saiyyad ney sab parr kutar dalay !

    Let us hope for Khair, evil was at the top !!

  205. November 4th, 2007 10:25 am

    Samira,

    I agree with your views, I do not advocate burning tyres for the sake of it or any other action. It is just one act we as a nation could do to say NOT IN OUR NAME. Peaceful protest is the best, but it seems we are too intransgient as a nation to do anything.

    I agree with you that apathy is our biggest problem, we seem always ready to diagnose the problem i.e corrupt politicians and military rule yet never want to provide the medicine which in this case would be peaceful protest. So once again my humwatau JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGAU!!!!. My call to the nation still stands as in link at http://www.otherpakistan.org/archive.html

    Feimanallah

    Wasim

  206. Neena says:
    November 4th, 2007 10:25 am

    Pakistan is a strong central governing authority that is not anwswerable to the Mullah infested Pakistani public

    Polls shows Pakistanis don’t favor Mullhas so don’t justify Army rule. BTW he had to get rid of extremists in the present government and Army who are slowing down the cleansing process (remember Lal Mosque).

  207. faraz says:
    November 4th, 2007 10:48 am

    I do support strong government not answerable to press or SC but that government should be freely selected by ppl of Pakistan.

    In situation like ours, there is no doubt we need strong government and our media behaved pathetic on Lal Masjid and Waziristan issue, but millatry dictatorship is not answer to any problem. It will hide problems under balnket for few months and then things may explode.

  208. Mansoor says:
    November 4th, 2007 10:52 am

    Neena – I do see your point but I don’t know what polls you are looking at. Stories like “terrorist central – Pakistan” (CNN) and “The Most dangerious country” (Newsweek) and personal oberservation and experiences leave no doubt about what the real problem in Pakistan is. Let me make it simple, it’s the “MULLAH” (and their supporters, i.e MMA, Imran Khan, etc). Democracy is way over rated, and regardless of what BB says, it may not be the best system to fight this war…A strong governaning authority is our last hope in this fight between Mullahs and Muslims…

  209. Neena says:
    November 4th, 2007 10:57 am

    Surprise! Surprise! – “Emergency may delay Pakistan poll“.

  210. Abid says:
    November 4th, 2007 11:12 am

    Whether they tagged it an

  211. Beej Kumar says:
    November 4th, 2007 12:02 pm

    Omar R. Quraishi,

    Good piece!

  212. KAWA says:
    November 4th, 2007 12:38 pm

    The nation is held hostage to a mad-man hell bent to hold on to power at the expense of our country’s destruction. It was painful to see his face and hear his lies on National TV yesterday justifying his actions against the judiciary.

    He has played two cards very well in the last several years; Firstly portraying himself to the West as the last hope against terrorism in Pakistan and secondly;

    Playing the ethnic card and keeping the support of “The Don of London” which in reality is the only ligitimate political party supporting him. The “Q” League being a cluster of vultures gathered together with the support of ISI and have no representation in the masses as a political party.

    The one good thing that Musharraf has been able to acheive and deserves credit for (which no-one has been able to do in the last 60 years) is completelty errording Army’s support in the masses in Punjab. Punjab has been criticized for years by other provinces of never raising the voice against military rulers or supporting and following Army dictates without questions. Not anymore and thanks to Musharraf!

    I hope that this is the last ‘tango’ this man has played and saner elements within the military stand up and stop playing to his slogan;

    “UNITY OF COMMAND”!!!

  213. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 4th, 2007 12:38 pm

    I don’t understand, why some of our commentators
    like to put BB and Nawaz together, Baba, there is a
    great difference between

    A female thief, thug, swindler, escroc, lier, agent
    money launderess (Valencia court in Spain
    charges, Oil for food case 154 millions US$ )
    we can’t even confirm she is socialist, communist, liberal
    secular ?? What is she, no one can own her ??

    A male (ex-gunjaa, hair grafted) handsome, healthy, rich
    generous, fraudulantly removed by pendoos Chaudrys
    nakly feudals, non of the corruption charges were
    proved, genuin politician nothing to do with NROs

  214. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 4th, 2007 12:56 pm

    KAWA,

    Support of Don of London, & the” Q ” League makes me
    think :

    Among all the Pakistani Politicians !!

    Who is the fake Don Juan or not real Don Quixote ??

  215. Kasim Mahmood says:
    November 4th, 2007 1:38 pm

    I received the following from a friend who works for PTI:

    “Imran Khan did not escape house arrest in Lahore as has been reported in electronic media, we are unsure of his whereabouts, and he has likely been kidnapped by the agencies,

    Imran Khan was told by the police last night that he is under house arrest. But around 3 am the police brought warrants to take him to prison and at that time it was discovered that he had mysteriously vanished while there were over two dozen policemen surrounding his house. We are not sure where they have taken him as there is no way he could have gone out without the knowledge of the police and he could be in a lot of danger.

    Please put this issue on all types of blogs for discussion.

    Please instruct all your International Chapters to protest in front of their respective Pakistani High Commissions as his life could be in danger.

    In addition to this please start a million signature petition to
    free Imran Khan and send it to the UN, amnesty international and the human rights commission or whichever organization you can think of.”

  216. Deewana Aik says:
    November 4th, 2007 1:45 pm

    Thanks Kasim Mahmood for spreading rumours. I won

  217. November 4th, 2007 1:54 pm

    http://www.supremecourt.gov.pk//intro-judges.htm

    Mockery of Supreme Court !!!!! only 4 ….Under PCO…. Must be awarded at taxpayers expense.

  218. November 4th, 2007 2:02 pm

    http://www.aaj.tv/

    DOWNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  219. T.Shabbir says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:04 pm

    Having read most of the blogs here, I have come to the conclusion that the Pakistanis living abroad
    are perhaps more concerned and aware of the menacing threat of terrorism spreading like wild fire in Pakistan. Pakistanis (living in Pakistan) are de-sensitized to the regular suicide bombings, the bloody body parts lying on the streets, doesn’t seem to bother them anymore. I dont hear too many condemnations against terrorists, in fact there seems to be a perverted sense of sympathy for them, which perhaps arises from misguided loyalty towards an extremist version of Islam. The CJ freed many suspected terrorists, under detention, he also called to restore Lal masjid, didnt hear a peep out of anyone regarding that. There was unabashed vendetta and judicial activism, going on against the government. Whilst many people in Pakistan hold the CJ as their hero and god etc. Pakistanis living abroad, including myself were disgusted with what was going on in the SC. Nobody likes emergency rule, but lets face it, under these circumstances, that was the only option left. The CJ and gang of activist judges are responsible for the present situation.

  220. bobster says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:09 pm

    I wonder why we can complain about how everything has gone wrong in the last few days . Everyone has an opinion about this situation but no one seems to want to discuss the possible effects of the increasing terrorism in Pakistan. I believe that if the Army was going to use violence then half of us would think twice before posting here.We would be scared of the consequences of our freedom of speech. I am not saying the current political situation is ok, all i am saying is that innocent people are getting blasted away and no one seems to have anything to say. Between Martial law,BB or NS i would pick Martial law because i think that we have a better chance to fight the terrorists and i have had a chance to see what the other 2 can do (twice). Maybe i am wrong but from what i see (and its not the whole picture) maybe Musharaf is a person who is willing to put himself on the line for what he thinks is right.Maybe!!!

  221. November 4th, 2007 2:15 pm

    Shabbir

    Try to ponder and open ur mind… may be by studying materials your vision will get broad and then u will come to know what courts are and how they protect citizens and their fundamental rights..

    I am sure by your observation and study, you would be able to think and find some intersting conclusion.

  222. Ayesha says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:38 pm

    The Situation in Pakistan is very upsetting and a group of us have decieded to organize a protest outside the Pakistani Embassy in New York City at 2 pm tomorrow (5th of November). This is very short notice and we are trying to get as many people to come. I have created a facebook event to help organize people, the link for it is as follows:
    http://columbia.facebook.com/event.php?eid=19602181032

    I urge those of you in New York city to join us, also please spread the word around.

    Thank you.

    Ayesha

  223. Raza Rumi says:
    November 4th, 2007 2:40 pm

    Omar R Quraishi:

    that was an excellent editorial – sums up what the citizens feel about the recent [unfortunate] events.

  224. omar r. quraishi says:
    November 4th, 2007 3:19 pm

    thanks raza

  225. MQ says:
    November 4th, 2007 4:06 pm

    Ayesha,

    It would be helpful if you also give the street address where people are to assemble. Also, they need to bring placards with appropriate messages on them.

  226. Incognito says:
    November 4th, 2007 4:55 pm

    I guess “General” Musharraf can’t see it coming, but he is walking on the same path that Saddam Hussein took a few years ago in Iraq.

    Is he so selfish for power and presidency that he is willing to stop an entire country from functioning and also arrest people at will?

    He in a single act of foolishness has taken Pakistan back by atleast a decade.

    Wishing all the Pakistanis in this hour of crisis good luck and hoping the situation in Pakistan comes back to normal as soon as possible.

    Khuda Hafiz…
    Incognito!

  227. Ahmad R. Shahid says:
    November 4th, 2007 5:20 pm

    Mr. T.Shabbir:

    You are making too many generalizations as is true of these “overseas Pakistanis”, who think of themselves as “holier than thou” and in their arrogance look down upon the resident Pakistanis as if they are the scum of the earth. I have lived both in the USA and the UK and have lived most of my life in Pakistan, yet I don’t consider the resident Pakistanis to be any less intelligent than the overseas variety. For once leave your arrogance aside and try to fathom why people in Pakistan don’t support the IDIOTS like the Generals and their cronies. In fact they should be banished to save the country and not the exalted Lordship.

  228. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 4th, 2007 6:23 pm

    @Gumnam, (version :Iqbal Bano)

    fajjah banaam Mushy : before Emergency

    Ulfat ki naii manzil ko chala,
    tu bahain dal kay bahon main
    dil tornay walay dekh kay chal,
    ham bhi to paray hein rahon main, ham bhi to……….

    BB Banaam Mushy: the day Emergency declared

    Jab chandni raton main tonay
    khod ham say kia iqrar-e-wafa
    Khod ajj hein kiun ham beganay
    teri bereham nigahon main dil tornay walay………

    Opposition+Medias+journalist Banaam Mushy:
    during and after PCO

    Ham Bhi hain wohi tum bhi ho wohi, ( uttam)
    Ye appni appniiiiiiii Qismat haaaaaaaay ( Pancham)
    Tum khail rehay ho khushiaun say,
    Hum doob gaiy hain Ahon main, dil tornay waly………

  229. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 4th, 2007 7:43 pm

    One get the impressions that they are talking about
    an unknown group of militants active in the media,
    journalism (electronic and written), this group is visible
    now , what will happen to them as they are accused of
    creating confusions and dysinformations. ??

  230. Asad says:
    November 4th, 2007 7:48 pm

    Taking cue from PIA’s Business Plus the Leader of The Enlightened and Moderate has imposed Emergency Plus on Pakistan. The man has no shame (Bay Haya in Urdu) and I guess when you have no shame you can pretty much lie too millions of your Aziz Hum Watano and go to sleep every night.
    His Army (since he is the COAS) surrenders by the hundreds without firing a shot, his government (he is President) attacks unarmed Lawyers and journalists.
    Musharaf now has the distinction of imposing emergency twice and the first person to actually impose emergency against the policies of his own government.
    Inflation is out of control, the rich poor gap is expanding, there is a major shortage of electricity and water, the constitution and judiciary are…. well you know.
    Musharaf must GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  231. AUK says:
    November 4th, 2007 8:44 pm

    Deewana Aik, Good riddance to you. Imran has millions of supporters, and his struggle is a just struggle for the supremacy of Law, without which there is no country like we are seeing now. And yes, the good news is that Imran is safe for now.

  232. T.Shabbir says:
    November 4th, 2007 8:59 pm

    Ahmad R. Shahid:

    You cannot accuse me of being arrogant or having a “holier than thou” attitude, because I have concerns about rising suicide attacks in Pakistan. Every patriotic and politically aware Pakistani (living in Pakistan or abroad) should be concerned about it, unless of course you are a sympathiser of the extremist group. Perhaps you are even one of them! Why else would you get so offended at my genuine concern about terrorist violence spreading in Pakistan? I did not imply or use words like….. “less then intelligent” or “scums of the earth”, for anyone, those are YOUR rather disrespectful words not mine!

  233. Deewana Aik says:
    November 4th, 2007 9:08 pm

    “Deewana Aik, Good riddance to you. ”

    Same to you AUK. You and other supposed supporters should first get Imran to give his illegitimate daughter her right of his fatherhood. He remained a bhagora from supremacy of law as long as his lover, mother of that child, was alive. Spare us your alligator tears.

  234. Deewana Aik says:
    November 4th, 2007 9:31 pm

    “Will you allow me to comment on your personal life”

    Please do. I did not have adulterous relations neither do I have an illegitimate child like Imran. Feel free to discuss however.

  235. ethica says:
    November 4th, 2007 9:36 pm

    If you are in Pakistan, are you doing anything about this situation? This is a question to the blogger and anyone else reading this. Is anyone interested in resolving this peacefully, but making sure justice occurs? Go here to this blog and answer. http://ethica.wordpress.com/

  236. Deewana Aik says:
    November 4th, 2007 9:47 pm

    Why do you think everyone is immoral like your Imran..?

  237. AUK says:
    November 4th, 2007 9:57 pm

    Deewana Aik, Again a personal attack on Imran offends me; a personal attack on me, yes, go ahead and take your shots.

    As for your high moral ground, this is what has landed us where we are. Self righteous, judgmental, and defiant. That has lead to the crisis that we are facing today. I could be talking of Mush, or so many others.

  238. Ajmal says:
    November 4th, 2007 9:57 pm

    Well it’s is personal life.Why do you have to interfere in his personal life.We are here to discuss everyones professional life and not personal.I hope you know that.

  239. Deewana Aik says:
    November 4th, 2007 10:17 pm

    Its not personal if he wants to be a leader. Goes towards his moral and religious credibility. I wouldn

  240. Deewana Aik says:
    November 4th, 2007 10:22 pm

    PS: How would it look if Islamic Republic of Pakistan had an adulterer as PM with an illegitimate child?

    You can not be serious.

  241. Rashid Hasan says:
    November 4th, 2007 10:30 pm

    It looks like every one is clamoring for democracy, civil government, impartial and empowered judiciary and for army to go back to barracks. These are all fine principles and should be adhered to and cherished by all civilized people. I believe now most of the Pakistanis think the same way as well.

    BUT there is still something that trumps everything. Such is our state (Zia’s legacy) that all our (Pakistani people’s) rationality will be gone and everyone will line up heart and soul if Musharraff grows a beard, euthanise his pet dogs, calls himself Ameer-ul-Momineen, calls his parliament composed of people like Sheikh Rasheed and Wasi Zafar as “Majlis-e-Shoorah”, does not talk of moderation and starts using words like Mulsim Ummah, Islam, Jihad, etc. on every occassion and start referring to Supreme court justices as Qazis, call the police department (or beef it up with another satellite organization) as “department of Amr bil Maroof and Nahi Anil munkir”, let Hudood laws continue as it is, dons chadders on every saints tomb, and also if the rumors are true, pulicly trash his bottle of wine (ala Amitabh on the request of Rekha in Suhag :-)) etc. etc. Therefore it makes me sad to observe that all the protests and anger are against his person and not against the army rule. Of course intelligent and eloquent people like Aitizaz Ahsan and Fakhruddin G Ibrahim and you are constantly trying to inculcate the point that it is the army rule which is wrong and not the person of Musharraf.

    Let us maintain the same instance against Army rule even if the Army chief looks and talks like Qazi Hussain Ahmed and civilian democratically elected leader is a woman like Sherry Rahman. I think it will take a generation or two. We may also need to address and resolve the “burning” questions of whether Islam allows for democracy and whether a woman can rule Momineens. Yes, amongst muslims, the jury is still out on it, even in the 21st century.

    While Musharraf and his army took us back 50 years for the very plain reason of they having guns and we don’t, there are people (of reasonable power and clout) who wants to take us back all the way to 5th century employing the same means!! They are equally terrible no matter how moral they sound.

    Eternal optimist as I am, there is a silverlining I can see in all this (and this is my personal opinion). Let the two evils fight it out between them once for all if fate and circumstances (some call it USA :-)) has pitched them against each other. Once both weakoned and withered, a democratic civilian rule can usher in, and in all probability, survive and thrive. If Army gets defeated by masses and lawyers now, I am afraid, Maulvis will quickly move in to fill the void and that would be the beginning of another nightmare – one that may be worst than the ones on the Elm street.

  242. Ajmal says:
    November 4th, 2007 10:42 pm

    @Rashid Hassan
    Well just one thing to say at your comments, if today lawayers and masses upset army them tommrow those mullah can be thrown to dustbins too.

  243. SH Kavi says:
    November 4th, 2007 11:04 pm

    Rashid Hasan With due respect Sir, you are toeing the George Bush’s line.If you look at our history, ‘ Maulvis ” never got more than 5% votes in fair elections.So this fear of Maulvis is baseless.I think people opposing MR. musharraf b/c he is a dictator___not b/c of his ethnicity or his ” enlightened moderation”.

  244. HAYAT says:
    November 4th, 2007 11:07 pm

    Bhai, iss Islam-baazi nay iss ka peecha bhi nahin chora. Aap ko Imran ki morality nahin pasand, tou matt vote deejiaye ga. Khatam baat. Is tamam discussion ko highjack koun kartain hain?

  245. SH Kavi says:
    November 4th, 2007 11:17 pm

    Please ignore my typos.

  246. AUK says:
    November 4th, 2007 11:20 pm

    Yes, adultery is not an Islamic value, but hypocrisy, looting murder are. Crimes we have been committing in Islamic Rebublic of Pakistan. Get your facts straight before you open your loud mouth.

  247. Deewana Aik says:
    November 4th, 2007 11:59 pm

    None of them are Islamic valeus so what is your point?

  248. Ahson Hasan says:
    November 5th, 2007 12:31 am

    The November 03 action by General Musharraf was very much on the cards. Yes, it was insane and, yes, he will end up screwing up any chances or hopes of Pakistan ever walking tall in the comity of nations as a truly democratic polity, yet, the general

  249. Mahmood says:
    November 5th, 2007 12:57 am

    Lot of people here are asking for army revolt, aggitation, street protests etc. May I know what you have in mind for “after Musharraf” situation. Do you think one man party of Imran Khan will make the country peaceful and progressive, or BB will be any different from her last two tenures, or may be Maulana Fazlur Rehman is the solution? Just curious for your opinions.

  250. Viqar Minai says:
    November 5th, 2007 1:01 am

    Aaj TV has resumed broadcasting and we are beginning to get first glimpses of the domestic reaction to the imposition of ML in the garb of emergency back home. The PM held a press conference, as did BB; also reactions from JI, PML-N, PML-Q, former Justice Fakhruddin G. Ibrahim, Justice(R) Wajihuddin, and Asma Jahangir were available, courtesy of GEO and Aaj.

    My first impression after listening to the various statements, and getting a feel of the body language, is one of guarded optimism. The determination among the media, the legal community, as well as demonstration of some backbone from the political parties is definitely evident.

    In the face of international condemnation, and growing domestic defiance, I doubt that the govt. has a lot of room to manouver. The armed forces should seriously think of containing further damage, and show the general the door.

    Also newsworthy is the release, at long last, of the 200+ kidnapped security personnel in FATA after a long custody; but not before the militants also got the release of their 29 arrested comrades. While the release of the militants is nothing to celebrate, this development further highlights the weak position of the govt. in spite of the imposition of the emergency.

    If the civil society can roll this back, it would be a truly historic achievement. We would have freed the coming generation from being condemned to re-live our past as their future. Pakistan will be on its way.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

  251. Irfan says:
    November 5th, 2007 1:25 am

    Need of the hour is to SEND FLOWERS TO THE HONOURABLE JUDGES who Refused to take Oath under PCO and sacrificed their Career.
    To a very pleasent surprise Even Justice Javaid Iqbal sacrificed and refused to become the Chief Justice.

  252. omar r. quraishi says:
    November 5th, 2007 1:28 am

    Editorial, The News, Nov 5, 2007

    Age of darkness
    Monday, November 05, 2007
    With the flickering off screens of private media channels, as a state of emergency, which in effect is a euphemism for martial law, was imposed on Saturday, Pakistan entered a new age of darkness. The two institutions, the judiciary and the media, which in recent months have given people most cause for cheer, have been the most severely targeted in President Musharraf’s late night speech, following the issuing of the PCO. As for the claim that the federal and provincial assemblies will continue to function, this in effect means little as in the absence of an operative constitution, these institutions have no meaningful status.

    As had been predicted in the days of speculation that led to the emergency, it is the actions of the judiciary that have come under the severest attack and been used in an attempt to justify the shoving aside what remains of Pakistan’s much tampered with and tattered constitution. Whereas critics other than Musharraf have in the past months expressed some dismay over the volume of cases taken up by the apex court, including hundreds that have attracted suo motu attention, this, more than anything else, shows up the failures of the system of justice delivery at the lower levels. For anyone genuinely interested in putting Pakistan, and its people, first, the measures that needed to be taken was a resolving of the situation where people were denied justice for years due to flaws in the working of district courts. Whereas the wisdom of the Supreme Court in taking on such a vast volume of work raised questions, the issues of ordinary people can only be aggravated by removing the one forum they had used to seek redress from grievance.

    And indeed, it must be noted that the other accusations against the court – of interfering in the war on terror, weakening thegovernment’s writ or humiliating and demoralizing government officials – also, more than anything else, expose the weaknesses of the system. From the actions of the court a great deal could have been learned about the working of police, the intelligence services and the bureaucracy. Slip-shod investigative work, that leaves open gaping legal loopholes, is no way to win the war on terror. Adopting a policy of secrecy in this struggle, or indulging in ‘abducting’ suspects, cannot help either. The war on terror must be won not only on the ground – through armed action and the imprisonment of those found guilty – but also in the minds of people. And this can happen only when there is transparency, when courts and people can be informed of crimes committed by alleged terrorists and government functionaries are able to give answers about the wrongs they have committed and how these have, under the law, been dealt with.

    The war against militants is now too big to be fought behind closed doors. The full facts about it, and those behind it, need to be made known and not papered over. And, speaking of hiding the truth, while the sudden silencing of private electronic media channels may have brought some immediaterelief to government, in the longer term it will obviously cause more harm than good. For one, as the channels which had made their way into thousands of living rooms over the past five years have vanished, so has the fragile fa

  253. Haider says:
    November 5th, 2007 3:13 am

    Leaders are but a reflection of society. Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said, “As you are, so will be the rulers that will be set over you”.

    Khumar Barabankvi in a couplet says:

    duusaro.n pe agar tabsiiraa kiijiye
    saamane aa_iinaa rakh liyaa kiijiye

  254. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    November 5th, 2007 3:59 am

    @Viqar: can you please tell how are you able to see AAJ in Pakistan? URL please?

  255. Irfan says:
    November 5th, 2007 6:11 am

    Other than the Emergency what political future holds for Pakistan, emergency or no emergency is not a big deal. Who will lead after Parvez Musharaaf, even after 10 years, it is a tragedy that Pakistan did not produce a mass leader after Z.Bhutto, but he himself was a corrupt man.
    Pakistani should think about that, the army will never let any powerful and intelligent leader to succeed in the country. Terrorism is just secondary used as an excuse by the ruling houses in Pakistan.

  256. irfan says:
    November 5th, 2007 6:16 am

    Salam to everybody , I saw the speech of President in Urdu for the first time, man he could not complete a whole sentence in Urdu, it is a mixture, like he said ” Islamabad mein yani ke heart of Pakistan mein” made me laugh. He cannot properly speak his mother tongue and National language of Pakistan.

  257. Mahmood says:
    November 5th, 2007 7:08 am

    “the army will never let any powerful and intelligent leader to succeed in the country. ”

    @irfan

    It means army is more intelligent, they play better politics, I wish our politicians learn to play this kind of politics. Do you think judges and media could have waited 15 days when Musharraf would have shed his uniform, then they could have started the aggitation and open challenge to the government. You know you have to play your cards wisely in politics.

    BTW, do you see any intelligent leader in our political parties that you think should be supported by the public.

    Do you think political parties should give us more choices than NS, BB and Maulana.

  258. Aqil Sajjad says:
    November 5th, 2007 7:52 am

    The verdict to reopen the lal masjid was given by a bench comprising two pro-govt judges (namely Muhammad Nawaz Abbasi and Javed Butter) who have taken oath under the new PCO. But Musharraf’s apologists are going on and on about how the court was blocking the war on terror without having their facts right. Here is the daily times report on the case; please spread this info around as much as possible to prevent the govt’s lies from being believed.

    Govt ordered to open Lal Masjid for prayers from today
    (Daily times, Oct 3, 2007)

    * SC asks govt to pay compensation to families of those killed in operation
    * CDA given one year to complete project on Hafsa site
    * Aziz

  259. Ahmad R. Shahid says:
    November 5th, 2007 8:20 am

    Mr T. Shabbir:

    And you are one of those IDIOTS. Resident Pakistanis don’t need your stupid sermons. They are more intelligent than you are. Thank you very much.

  260. Ahmad R. Shahid says:
    November 5th, 2007 8:22 am

    Mr. Irfan:

    I second your ideas.

  261. Ahmad R. Shahid says:
    November 5th, 2007 8:24 am

    irfan says:

    He cannot properly speak his mother tongue and National language of Pakistan.

    Mr. Irfan:

    Its not that he can’t he doesn’t. No wonder his support mainly comes from outside, the overseas variety, our borders rather than from within, except of course the bunch of goons, known as the Army.

  262. Ahmer says:
    November 5th, 2007 8:58 am

    T.Shabbir says:November 4th, 2007 2:04 pm
    Having read most of the blogs here, I have come to the conclusion that the Pakistanis living abroad
    are perhaps more concerned and aware of the menacing threat of terrorism spreading like wild fire in Pakistan. Pakistanis (living in Pakistan) are de-sensitized to the regular suicide bombings, the bloody body parts lying on the streets, doesn

  263. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 5th, 2007 10:45 am

    just heard

    Attorney general anounced dessolution of
    National Assembly on 15 nov.07

  264. Viqar Minai says:
    November 5th, 2007 11:06 am

    @Adnan: I am not in Pakistan. However, in US, I was unable to get Aaj TV transmisions on Saturday.
    Last night was the first time I could.

    http://www.jumptv.com/en/channel/aajtv/

  265. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 5th, 2007 11:11 am

    Now the moderates ( not BB) should come out
    and handle the situation intelligently, the extremism
    from left and right must be crushed !!

    Pakistan’s Ideology had been tarnished by these
    animals called extremists.

  266. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    November 5th, 2007 1:59 pm

    Bush admin asking Musy to take off his wardi,

    The Americans have no shame asking a Gentleman
    General to take off his clothes, as if he would be hidding
    AMD under his………. and thats too, asked by a Lady
    spokeswoman, For God’s sake have some respect, are
    you Americans so frustrated ? Striptease is really your
    CULTURE.

  267. Naresh Goswami says:
    November 6th, 2007 3:16 am

    if emergency is really such a horrible thing, why dont people just move out into the street and take on the establishment. i know it is not as simple as it sounds. for the common, poor and the powerless even ‘normalcy’ is indeed an emergency. and this holds true for any country in south Asia. if anything, imposing emergency only shows that the balancing act of keeping the vested interests satisfied has gone wrong. after all the tradition of dictatorship has been far more stronger than democracy.
    sorry to say but sentiments like “Can we find a single Gentleman to lead this nation out of chaos, into a stable, better future ?” ,only serve to strengthen the cult of dictators. unless people take up the task of cultivating democratic culture within the society itself, the scourge of dictatorship would never go. we the people of south Asia tend to indulge more in hero-worship than nourish institutions.
    off course, i feel sorry for the people of Pakistan.

  268. Kruman says:
    November 6th, 2007 3:18 am
  269. omar r. quraishi says:
    November 6th, 2007 7:06 am

    Editorial, The News, Nov 6, 2007

    Filling the jails

    The country’s jails are fast filling up as ever greater numbers of miscreants and extremists, dangerous men and women all, arrive at their gates. They come by the van-load, bumped and bruised, battered and beaten, having been detained after being caught red-handed in the act of committing a felony — a felony usually taking the form of standing in the road and waving a banner or, at the more serious end of the spectrum, shouting a slogan. This includes hundreds of lawyers who have been brutally beaten and arrested nationwide as well as members of civil society voicing their protest against the whims of one man bent on pushing the country to ruin. Some of those newly sampling life in jail have clearly crossed the boundary into out-and-out terrorism — they have declared themselves to be politicians, no less, and have been duly carried off to await an uncertain fate.

    Curiously, none of these dangers to the security of the nation appear to have been — at the time of their arrest or detention — in possession of anything more lethal than a fine legal mind, a couple of ball-pens and some hastily scribbled notes. Some of them come equipped with the kind of intellect that can stop a man dead in his tracks at a hundred meters. Others possess yet more dangerous weaponry — they have the ability to string half-a-dozen words together coherently whilst at the same time holding several conflicting ideas in their head at the same time — self-evidently, they are all individuals likely to shake the pillars of society to their foundations. Which is why they are being locked up

  270. omar r. quraishi says:
    November 6th, 2007 7:11 am

    Editorial, The News, Nov. 6, 2007

    US role & reaction

    The United States is in a real soup after the second Musharraf coup against his own self. Statements of top US leaders betray a sense of helplessness in the White House, the State Department and the Pentagon. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has come out strongly demanding that Musharraf should quit his army post and Pakistan should move towards elections under the constitution. She also said America would review its aid package to Pakistan and implicitly, but belatedly, also admitted to a serious US policy flaw in relying too much on Musharraf which Washington has been doing for the past six years. Defence Secretary Robert Gates on Monday asked Musharraf to return his country to a law-based, constitutional and democratic rule as soon as possible saying that the state of emergency and suspension of the constitution was a disturbing development. A White House spokesman chipped in, saying that the move was unfortunate. The defence secretary further said that the US was reviewing all assistance programmes and the Pentagon also later said that it was suspending its annual defence talks in Islamabad scheduled to begin today. Influential US senators have been talking even tougher. The chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Democratic Senator Joe Biden, has been severely critical of the Bush administration’s “Musharraf policy” saying that this is why Washington’s options are now limited. He also said that he would be pushing the US president for a review of the relationship to make it focus on channelling aid to help moderates in Pakistan.

    Another influential member of the US Senate, Republican Senator Arlen Specter said he would not support American aid to Pakistan with the new development since these were against the cause of democracy. The senator said that America needed to get “very tough with the dictator”. It should be remembered that these are not empty words, because those who have spoken them do have the power to influence policymaking in America. Many US think-tanks and analysts had been for days cautioning the Bush administration of the consequences of a policy that relied too much on a dictator who was fast losing popularity and his grip on power — and their warnings have now become reality. A change in US policy is thus very much on the cards, especially when one considers that both houses of Congress are controlled by the Democrats, who have been at odds with President Bush over his handling of the war on terror and specifically Pakistan. Besides, many Americans will question the sending of billions of taxpayer dollars to prop a military dictator who has ravaged the constitution and trampled on human rights and the press in his own country. It would be fair to say that Washington’s continued display of support for General Musharraf is crucial to his survival. The nature of the emergency — which is nothing more nor less than a severe martial law — is such that this support may well be coming to an end.

    The US is only worried about the war on terror and the 24,000 US troops next to the troubled Pakistani tribal areas. If Washington gets assurances from Pakistani power brokers and stakeholders that its interests will be watched, personalities may no longer be of interest to it. Right or wrong, the US has acquired a balancing role in Pakistan’s domestic power games. It is time now that it stood on the side of democracy and stopped working with an autocrat whose only objective seems to be to preserve his own rule at any cost, regardless of what happens to his country and its people.

  271. Jamshed says:
    November 6th, 2007 6:03 pm

    There is a very simple solution to all this nonsense….General should arrest Bhutto and she should be tried for all charges against her and then the general should call a fair election without any of these thugs and thieves (Bhutto and Sharif)…….and then the general should resign….that would be the only decent thing to do …….God Help Pakistan

  272. November 7th, 2007 5:19 am

    @ Harris Sadique

    I have gone through the comment given by you. Well I would like to say only one thing that you can not say that a sleepy nation will never woke up even the worst is given to them. As far as CJ is concerned its not a big deal that he taken oath as CJ under PCO 1999 but refused it this time. Dear its called revolution and it can come at any time. You must be knowing that change of thoughts and actions is possible when you are given a direction by the trust of thousands of people. I m agreed to you that he may taken so many decisions that were against democracy and rule of law but it was prior to his exile from the court by President.

    It happens that when scores of people trust you it become difficult to go against the law. He is the person followed by lawyers not the general public. His followers knows constitution and law just like him so they can change their direction if he will go against the law.

    Lawyers have proved that educated nation can never be played by any politician or dictator because of having good deal of information about their rights.

    Dilemma is this that even our educated young generation dont know what are the basic rights given to them by the constitution and what is the importance of supermacy of constitution..?

    If we want to live like a lively nation first we have to educate our masses and its not much difficult but only if our youth is interested in it and make their efforts.

    No doubt that our both the major parties PPP and PML dont owe the leaders to run the affairs democratically because BB lived abroad while there was Musharaf’s rule and now she came back to have a hand on chair. Pakistan dont need such leaders who come to Pakistan only for ruling it while they spend their time out of the country when they are not in the power.

    NS accepted exile to Saudi Arabia to save himself from jail culture and wrath of the ruling dictator. Do we need such leaders…?
    No……!
    we have to say simply No to such leaders who play with the emotions of simple people for their lust of power. They have no passion for bringing progress in the country yes they are passionate to rule the country and loot it with both hands.

    We should see towards people like Imran Khan who are devoted and Pakistan oriented. He want to work for the country and he is the person can bring a wave of change in the destiny of this poorly managed country.

  273. Kamran Sikandar says:
    November 8th, 2007 2:46 pm

    Many posts talk about the suspension of the constitution as being a tragedy and some even go so far as calling the act as a second coup. I dont quite understand the reason for that.

    A state of emergency can be proclaimed under Part X Article 232 of the constitution. Follow the link

    http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/part10.html

    This provision has not been put in the constitution by President Musharraf but by the political leaders when the constitution was framed. At that time PPP was in power and all parties went along with it.

    If this particular provision of the constitution is so abhorrent to the politicians , why did they (NS, BB and others) not remove it when they were in power?

    The fact of the matter is that conditions exist in the country that, in the opinion of the government, cannot be improved except by this step.

  274. Ed Persico says:
    November 9th, 2007 7:00 am

    good luck my friends, ur press has been silenced but not your voices

  275. pervaiz mir says:
    November 9th, 2007 9:54 pm

    Destroyers OF PAKISTAN:- P M L Q , M Q M, MALIK Q AND OF COURSE THE PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN.
    ANOTHER STAGE DRAMA:- SO CALLED SUPREME COURT FOR EARLY DISPOSAL OF CASES.ALL EFFORTS BEING MADE TO CURB JUSTICE IN PAKISTAN.
    MEDIA IN JAIL:-ANCHOR PERSONS BEING THREATENED
    LAWYERS ;-THOUSANDS OF LAWYERS IN JAIL.
    POLITICIANS :-THOUSANDS OF POLITICIANS IN JAIL.
    STILL THEY ARE CALLING IT EMERGENCY—–STRANGE

  276. Adam Insaan says:
    November 11th, 2007 9:06 am

    …as said aforetime by others ;
    ” we will overcome………………”

  277. Aftab Ali says:
    December 12th, 2007 6:41 am

    I think it is vey wrong

  278. December 14th, 2007 5:36 am

    Emergency lifted today !!

  279. November 8th, 2010 1:29 am

    well i dont know whats the future of Pakistan and whats this all happening every other day

  280. June 17th, 2011 4:14 am

    we will succeed and will be on the top of the world and the day will com for justest

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