Bomb Blasts in Rawalpindi – Pakistan at War

Posted on September 4, 2007
Filed Under >Adil Najam, Law & Justice, Politics, Religion, Society
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Adil Najam

What follows below is a repost. I had originally written this on July 19, 2007 after bomb blasts in Hangu, Hub and Kohat, which had themselves followed at the heels of blasts in Islamabad. Today, we just had two blasts in Rawalpindi with more than 15 people already being reported dead.

The continuing story here is of a nation at war with extremists. It is Pakistanis who are being killed here. Pakistanis who are being targeted. This is vile, this is cowardly and this is inhuman. While we are all distracted by the continuing political circus, the big story here is for Pakistan’s survival and the all-out war that has been declared on Pakistan by extremists and fanatics. The American forces across the Afghan border are not helping and their incursions into Paksitani territory has only led to other innocent Paksitani deaths which adds to the argument of the extremists and has made the politics of dealing with extremism in Pakistan that much more difficult. But, whereever you stand on politics, we must stand with Pakistan in this war and against extremists who have been murdering Paksitanis all over the place.


Suicide attacks today in Hangu, in Hub, in Kohat today.

This adds to the blast in Islamabad a few days ago and many others in the NWFP over the last many days. Even for a part of the world which has gotten tragically used to needless death and murder by suicide killers, this is crossing a threshold. The headline above may seem sensational to some, but is it really.

It is too simple to blame this on the Lal Masjid episode or just on the fact that we have a military government. I must say I get literally ‘sick’ of attempts to turn these massive manifestations of a truly divided society into petty political sloganeering for whatever someon’s political preferences is. Thsi is NOT a time for propaganda; this is a time for real thought and real action. By all of us. This, as we at ATP have repeatedly argued, is a society at war with itself. And the war is now beginning to get much more bloody. The most recent attack (Kohat) was in a mosque. Most have targetted security forces; i.e., the apparatus of the state.

Let me be clear here. There is NOTHING ‘Islamic’ about any of these murderous attacks. This is not just anti-government. This is anti-state. This is anti-Pakistan. Indeed, this is anti-humanity. This in inhuman.

Here are the three breaking news items at The News: On Kohat killings (since writing this, number of dead is now up to 20):

A bomb blast in a mosque of Pathan Lines in Kohat Cantt. killed 11 and wounded several persons Thursday night. Immediately after the explosion, security personnel has cordoned the affected area and nobody is allowed to enter the area. According to the unconfirmed reports, it was a suicide bomb attack. However, the official sources did not confirm it.

On Hub killings:

The blast at RCD Highway in Balochistan’s Hub town Thursday claimed 30 lives, while 30 others were wounded in the incident, sources said. Several injured have been admitted at hospitals of Karachi in a critical condition. According to reports suicide bomber detonated the bomb when a convoy of Chinese engineers was passing through the RCD Highway in Hub. The vehicle carrying the Chinese however passed unscathed from the place, while four police mobile vans accompanying the convoy were caught in the blast. After the blast the panic-stricken security guards of Chinese engineers and policemen opened indiscriminate firing killing and wounding several nearby people. Thirty persons including policemen and passersby were killed in the blast, sources said… The huge explosion also destroyed 15 vehicles and motorbikes and damaged 25 nearby houses and shops. Thirty wounded persons were admitted at Karachi’s Civil Hospital, while three others were brought to Jinnah Hospital. Four wounded at the Civil Hospital were succumbed to their injuries, hospital sources said.

On Hangu killings:

A suicide bomber rammed explosives laden car with the gate of Police Training College, Hangu killing eight persons and wounding 26 others on Thursday morning. The bomber struck his car to the gate of the college causing eight deaths and injuring 26 others, police sources said. Civil Hospital Hangu has received 26 wounded persons, hospital sources said. Ten wounded persons were in a critical state and emergency has been declared in the hospital, sources added. Police have cordoned off the area and Peshawar-Hangu road has been closed for all traffic.

Writing earlier in The News, I had written that simply cause-and-effect will not do anymore because what we have is a society and state crumbling at its seams. Each doubtful of the other.

… there is the deepening cleavage between state and society. The difference between Lal Masjid and other similar situations — e.g., the 1993 standoff at Waco, Texas — is that in our case the state had such little credibility that each of its actions was deemed suspect by the media and the public. There was constant chatter that this was a ‘topi drama’ orchestrated by intelligence agencies. There were incessant rumours about how the operation was orchestrated. There were unending doubts about its timing. All of this was not simply a display of our inherent cynicism, these were manifestations of a society that has no trust in its state. This was not just a lack of trust in the government, it was a lack of trust in the state. And that is a truly ugly cleavage.

I truly hope I am wrong. But if I am not, then we really need to stop shouting and start thinking. Anger is never a substitute for analysis; and neither is of much use if it does not lead to real action for real change.

138 Comments on “Bomb Blasts in Rawalpindi – Pakistan at War”

  1. faraz says:
    July 19th, 2007 1:51 pm

    Well It is politically in-correct but only country which is able to control suicide mombers is “jew state”. We should study their strategy.

    When Bush attacked Iraq and Afghanistan, he wanted to give clear message to muslim world that we will retaliate 10X more then you.

    In Iraq USA is failing because they have not controlled it in initial phase. We have to deal with it now.

  2. Umar says:
    July 19th, 2007 1:53 pm

    Yes, this is war… every time I look at the news online, there’s something tragic to read about…

  3. Tamed~. says:
    July 19th, 2007 1:56 pm

    What is going to be the end of it?

    We need to sort it out sooner rather than later.

    People of Pakistan are frightened & insecure.

  4. July 19th, 2007 2:01 pm

    Well since we have US as our advisor on this whole thing, I doubt the government can solve this issue with any success and avoid more such incidents!!

    Some strong decisions are to be made and one of them is for the Musharaf to step down!! This is all towards Musharaf and the way he is running the show……… if he gets out of the equation then only things can return!! However, I doubt anything like that would happen.

    Perhaps the other suggestion of getting some help from Israel makes sense……. they should try to do that, however Isreal could easily do it by seprating Arabs from Jews……. I dont think we can filter out any people since it could be anyone!! its true the people at war with themselves ( either by choice or due to other influcen) but the situation is greatly detoriating!!

  5. Atif Mian says:
    July 19th, 2007 2:03 pm

    It is definitely a war. But what to do about it? One cannot stop suicide bombers with “threats” of punishment. What is the most our government can do? Threaten them with death sentence? The real war is the war of ideas.

    The question is how come Pakistan now has the space, the network, and the social fabric to create the dangerous and inhumane ideas that lead to Hangu, Hub and Kohat?

    We could have avoided this situation if our earlier (and current) governments allowed a free discussion of ideas, particularly as they relate to matters of religion: What is Jihad? Can you fight against your own state in the name of religion?

    These questions are not new, and have been raised for decades now. The “Mullah” view has been propagated AND protected by successive governments. What is worse is that alternative voices of reason within the religious debate were actively suppressed through laws and police actions. Blasphemy laws, declaring citizens “non-muslim” against their wishes, putting people in jail for suggesting an alternative view point …. These are not acts of individuals or madrassas. These have been acts of governments and its institutions.

    Does the present government have the nerve to reverse this process now? For the sake of Pakistan, I hope so.

  6. Osman says:
    July 19th, 2007 2:03 pm

    Ofcourse its war, and its about time too. For too long the radicals have hi-jacked Pakistan and have turned it into a hateful, paranoid (everything is usa’s fault), intolerant society. Their response for everything is violent force and they deserve the same in retaliation.
    however, untill we get rid of the madrassahs, educate the younger generation and give them a healthy outlet, all the military in the world cant overcome these fanatics. The “face-off” has been avoided for too long. Previous generations of Pakistan were foolish enough to think they could use these people for their means and then forget about them. Lets do our children a favor and take care of this problem in our lifetime!

  7. Saad says:
    July 19th, 2007 2:04 pm

    There really isn’t much to write home about since we were destined to meet this fate, the day we turned ourselves into touts for hire (for both the Islamic and the non-Islamic world). And instead of looking after ‘our’ interests we became a playground for the bad and ugly of this world.

    But what sickens me is the fact that the people who are actually responsible for bringing us to this stage are still sleeping tight in their secured bedrooms whilst it’s the common people of Pakistan who are suffering. And frankly speaking I don’t see this ‘war’ coming to an end anytime soon.

  8. Allah Wasaya says:
    July 19th, 2007 2:07 pm

    The picture of that old lady holding her hands together is worth a million words, and thats exactly what the picture of majority of Pakistan is right now, pleading to these terrorists, for God sake stop this insanity. This kind of an episode always reminds me or a sher from Iqbal’s Shikva:

    RehmataiN haiN Teri aghiyaar kay kaashaanoN per
    Barq girti hai to baychaaray MusalmanoN per

    But then I refer to Javab-e-Shikva to get the answer

    YuN to Syed bhi ho Mirza bhi ho Afghan bhi ho
    Tum sabhi kuch ho batao tum Musalmaan bhi ho?

    May God Bless Pakistan.

  9. Samdani says:
    July 19th, 2007 2:13 pm

    Allah Wasaya, I do not see the picture of the old lady you mention. Where is it?

  10. July 19th, 2007 2:24 pm

    This is what Noam Chomsky has to say about the reasons behind it:

    Listen to it from time 30:00 onwards

  11. Allah Wasaya says:
    July 19th, 2007 2:29 pm

    Samdani, its right at the top on the front page, don’t know why you can’t see it, perhaps something to do with your browser settings.

  12. faraz says:
    July 19th, 2007 2:31 pm

    We should discuss the root cause as well but right now what is best way to stop it?

    Nothing can change about pakistani society in one day. Jew state goes after relatives of bombers. At least quick air strikes on millatants in waziristan can make it under control.

  13. Akif Nizam says:
    July 19th, 2007 2:32 pm

    …..and one should care what Naom Chomsky has to say about anything because …….?

    He is a linguist who writes books from his living room and gives lectures to make a lot of money.

  14. Umar says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:00 pm

    I think you can use the word “Israel” without invoking the wrath of the Almighty… :) … this reminds me of the “Hamsaaya Mulk” thing on PTV a few years back… :) … (i mean all this in a light-hearted way so I hope you don’t take offense)…

    Anyhow, the trouble with the Israeli approach of attacking relatives is:

    1) It brings condemnation from the whole world…
    2) Morally incorrect…
    3) “Relatives” in the tribal context would imply the entire tribe and by extension the entire Pakhtuns… this is vastly different from Israelis targeting a handful of the bomber’s family… due to the tribal mores prevalent in FATA, such a strategy would engender the enmity of an entire ethnicity, even if they are not militants to begin with…
    4) They are our own compatriots and not members of a different race/nationality… not that attacking another race or nationality is correct, but this would be worse…

    A good start would be to go after the known militants, the ones the ISI knows about and has dealt (i.e. funded, armed, protected, trained) with in the past… surely they’ve not all gone underground all at once… go after them and take things from there…

  15. July 19th, 2007 3:06 pm

    This is not an update but something I did not write in the post that I wanted to add.

    The Hub killings again targeted Chinese workers. With the earlier two Chinese targetings (first by Lal Masjid in the massage center case and then during the Lal Masjid standoff) this is cannot any longer be just a coincidence. I guess we are about to lose the one and only consistent friend in foreign policy that we have had!

  16. Kruman says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:14 pm

    I won’t rule out an Indian hand in the killings of Chinese.

    As for the war, yes we are in a state of civil war. It is a war between two forces of extermism and darkness, the intolerant mullas against a tyrant general. Pakistanis need to support the forces of enlightenement and moderation headed by the CJP and the legal fraternity. Here is what is required to diffuse the situation:
    1) Army vacates the corrdors of power and returns to the barracks immediately
    2) Musharraf and his confidants should be tried for the genocide of a 1000 children in the lal masjid
    3) Immediate return to a democratic setup followed by fair and free elections.
    4) Allow all political leaders including Benazir, Nawaz, Altaf to return home
    5) Accountability of generals and politicians by the SC

  17. July 19th, 2007 3:17 pm

    Pakistan is facing crisis similar to IRAQ. My gut feeling relates all these incidents with crusading forces to achieve long term goals which are:

    - Merger of NWFP with Afghanistan and creating independent Balochistan.

    - Cut the islamic foundations linked with madrassa culture and stop the spread of islam by linking it with intolerance.

    - Creation of small secular new pakistan comprising of Sindh and Punjab

    To achieve all these goals, puppets are helping the Masters

    A article of interst….,1137


  18. faraz says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:18 pm

    I think most tricky part of this war is to avoid a civil war with ethinic pashtuns. If that happened then nothing will left.

    Infact most of victims of these attacks also belong to NWFP. Communication is key and Mush is very poor in communication.

  19. Kruman says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:19 pm

    On the point you brought up. Enemies of Pakistan will fully exploit this situation and fuel to intensify the civil war. That is why it is imperative for the army to step back and take a neutral stance. This can only happen if the army apologizes for the murder of children in lal masjid, nobody is blaming them for killing the mullas who took law into their own hands.

    Short of an apology and a trial of Musharraf nothing will mitigate the anger of the pathans over the deaths of their children in lal masjid.

  20. Kruman says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:24 pm

    Independent Citizen,
    You are dead on. This scenario has already been “prophecised” by a think tank.

    Being a patriotic Pakistani with the dard of our nation at heart, I hate to say this. Thanks to the strangling of democracy by generals, Pakistan is a failed state today.

    The only way out of this mess is to revert back to a democratic setup with an independent judiciary. Quaid-i Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah’s promise to the tribal pathans must also be honored.

  21. Adnan Ahmad says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:34 pm

    Just want to mention Aslam Baig’s interview from a few days ago on GEO. He said the chinese link points fingers to our nearby friends. Now it is too obvious. One wouldn’t want the present day mighty china to be your enemy’s close friend. The chinese killings right before the lal masjid, a subsequent call by the chinese president to musharraf and him right after that call warning that surrender or get killed. It’s all too coeherent. Seems like a very a good game theorist is behind this mess. This is truly a time to be sensible and playing safe. “Khuda khair kare.”

  22. Sohail says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:38 pm

    A very timely article and suggestion by Shireen Mazari in ‘The News (Opinion Section, 18th of July)’

    Also see today’s opinion section for Naseem Zehra’s article

  23. faraz says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:39 pm

    Kruman. Even is Mush stepped down it unless pakistan change its Afghanistan policy and let them operate safe heavens, it will continue.

    BB or even Nawaz sharif are posied to continue same policies because otherwise we will become north Korea.

    I dont have faintest idea what is our future.

  24. Conspiracy Theorist says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:43 pm

    I guess there is comfort in convincing ourselves that this is not done by someoen like us, someone else, someone outside must have done this. Its an Umreekan sazish becasue they want to destroy Pakistan. No, no, no, the whole Lal Masjid thing, the kidpanning, the killings, everything was done by the Indians because they want to break Pakistan-China ties. Of course, its not China, its Afghanistan that wants to destabilise. OK, it must be both together. But wait, were’nt the Lal Masjid people just a drama written by Musharraf. Of coruse not, Musharaf was planning teh Islamabad bombings.

    For Gods sake, how many excuses will we make. Why are we always searching for conspiracies and ‘outside’ and ‘hidden’ hands. Can we just not except that we are in a mess. As long as we dont we will seek solutions where they do not exist. Maybe if we began by accepting our own problems as a society instead of finding others to blame then we could think of real solution.

  25. July 19th, 2007 3:49 pm

    Being a Pakistani doesnot mean we should close our eyes. We never understand the plans of west bcoz we never did planning like them. They are ruling the world bcoz of long term planning and its execution.

    What the neocons and zionist think tanks sitting in organizations like RAND Corp. etc are planning, we never studied and looked into it.

    What all is going on in Muslim world is a result of long term planning chalked down by these think tanks. We pakistani’s are not a nation.. we are just a crowd and accordingly we have rulers of same style.

    the country exist if the rule of law and justice exist for common man… which is diminished in our society… What will happen tomorrow, i cant find a light in the narrow tunnel.

  26. July 19th, 2007 3:50 pm

    Maybe the Chinese are getting the hit because they are probably the only non-Pakistani people still freely living and working outside the well/better protected city centers of Karachi and Islamabad.
    But you are right. We may be about to lose the only good friend we have that can actually help in our long-term growth.

  27. asa says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:52 pm

    this war would easily stop if our beloved dictator comes to TV aplogize to whole nation abt all his wrong doing ,conduct a free & fair election without supporting these lotas PML(q) and killers MQM…war finished but alas we are ruled by firown of 21st century who never did this (cheap) thing ,his power is greater than 160 million ppl fate .
    God Bless Pakistan

  28. faraz says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:55 pm

    I think it is balckmailing by jihadis. They are threatning us to either change Afghanistan policy or face a civil war.

  29. Umar says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:55 pm

    I’m all for Mush retiring and enjoying his scotch whiskey, poodles and daily round of golf with the our other retired heroes-cum-benefactors, but I’m wondering if this is the right time for it… I’m concerned about the time lost in the transfer of power to a civilian administration which will then have to consolidate itself… if the MMA does well again, which seems likely now although it seemed the ANP would make a big comeback as little as a couple of months back, then the hands of the civilian administration would be tied even further if it has to cajole the Holy Fathers of the MMA… the likelihood of a civilian administration riding roughshod over all others is unlikely, something Mush can get away with (if he feels the need to) owing to his army… finally, for the sake of politics, all parties barring the PPP are on the same new platform with the MMA… this will only result in the MMA increasing its influence… and when that happens, we can forget about any action against the militants… Mush may be free of this unnecessary baggage if he stays and acts against the militants, both both these things are big “ifs”…

    Then again, if Mush stays and decides on some action against the militants, the liberal/left of Pakistan may not jump on to his platform given their dislike for him…

    Seems like we’re doomed no matter what…

    I thin k

  30. baber says:
    July 19th, 2007 3:56 pm

    I think Pakistan and its people must come first, even before religion and anyother thing. Because what we will leave for our kids is this country. What kind of country you want to leave for your children? Its time to become Pakistani Nationalist. Look at the arabs they are more nationalist then religious. Look at UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Eqypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Algeria. They are not blowing their own people in the name of jihad and enforcing shariat. It won’t stop untill everybody stands up against this cult of jihadies.

  31. Kruman says:
    July 19th, 2007 4:01 pm

    I don’t think all is lost. You can still bring order to the country but for that to happen you must have sincere leadership. Syed Ali Gillani has said today that Pakistan will disintegrate if army does not return to the barracks.

    I have already posted my solution:
    1) Army vacates the corrdors of power and returns to the barracks immediately
    2) Musharraf and his confidants should be tried for the genocide of children in the lal masjid. No one is blaming them for killing mullas who took law into theri own hands.
    3) Immediate return to a democratic setup followed by fair and free elections.
    4) Allow all political leaders including Benazir, Nawaz, Altaf to return home
    5) Accountability of generals and politicians by the SC

  32. Shafique says:
    July 19th, 2007 4:06 pm

    Violence beget violence, is not a cliché. And bloodshed only breeds a cycle of violence. In our case, both the government and the insurgent are responsible for the mess. The blunder caused by one only superseded the other.

    Surely, there is nothing Islamic about anything going on in the so-called Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Islam prohibits the use of violence and most of us have stood up and spoken against violence and injustices in various forum.

    And as Tobias Jones of the Guardian said aptly in a piece I posted earlier: “Since 2001, lazy intellectuals have been allowed to get away with repeating the nonsense that terrorism and war are the consequences of belief in God.

  33. OTTOMAN says:
    July 19th, 2007 4:10 pm

    To me the first thing would be to stop the army operation and take the people in confidence.Make them feel its still their army, their country and their people and then take measures to provide those poor people oppurtunities of education , health and living.Lets not forget its poverty that eventually leads them into the hands of these Mullahs.

  34. July 19th, 2007 4:23 pm

    Yes Pakistan is at war and I disagree with author that this war is not related with Lal Masjid and military dictatorship. This war started by military dictator when first he targetted people in Waziristan, Blochistan and now Lal Masjid. After operation sunrise completed, suicide attacks started next day. As we know every action has reaction and this is reaction now. If government started another action against these reactions, then this war will continue and if government steps aside, this war will end soone than expected. Now the best solution to end this war is in Musharraf’s hands who actually started it to benefit his allies and secure his “KURSI”. Now if he steps down today and annouces elections, this war will stop, otherwise not.

  35. Akif Nizam says:
    July 19th, 2007 4:26 pm

    The forces of obscurantism are out again with full force. Everyone else is responsible for this now: the Indians, the Jews, American, the hidden hands, everyone but the people who are shouting messages of death from the top of the hills, on their radio stations, out of the loudspeakers on the minarets. Cause obviously, salvation lies in ignoring the obvious and latching onto the obscure.

  36. July 19th, 2007 4:26 pm

    i think we need to start stringing these takfiri mullahs up – in fact we need to fight them for once – with both hands, we have given them so much of freedom that they deny it to others now.
    i say kill them all!

  37. OTTOMAN says:
    July 19th, 2007 4:37 pm

    I think we should learn our lesson that any action without people support isnt really helpful. We have to start educating people rather then fight violence with more violence.

  38. Conspiracy Theorist says:
    July 19th, 2007 4:40 pm

    To the ???? person. So, you are sayibng all was well adn great before the Waziristan operationand that is what started all of this? Maybe I was living in a different Pakistan from you then!

  39. faraz says:
    July 19th, 2007 4:41 pm

    mullah jat that will spawn an ethinic civil war. State of Palkistan is in loss-loss situation.

    He should start with

    1) Announce to give up uniform and an election date.
    2) Start striking camps in waziristan and no more safe heavens

    The real thing is to contain the threat without a civil war.

  40. Shahbaz Khan says:
    July 19th, 2007 5:36 pm

    In my opinion these armed militants are frankensteins created by our security agencies and the “Islamic” government of Zia-ul-Haq. There is no escaping the fact that the roots of almost every disgrace brought to Pakistan can be traced to these agencies, especially ISI. Our own agencies funded and trained these militants for a very long time and then the government suddenly turned its back on them. Certainly, no records were kept of these mujahideen during the Afghan war and they were left on their own. Therefore, they went out of control. I sincerely believe that the only solution to this problem is for Musharraf to come clean in front of the people of Pakistan and admit this fatal mistake committed by the military and the agencies. It is only then that he will be able to win the trust of the educated public. As for the uneducated majority, the national media can show them the other side of the picture. But who am I kidding!!! Musharraf admitting a mistake??? How stupid of me??

  41. Toryalai says:
    July 19th, 2007 5:40 pm

    War? Whose war? The war that was designed by the fundamentalists in the ranks and files of the ISI to kill and maim Pakistani citizens is now coming to its natural conclusion that is to cause death and destruction among those (the establishment) who supported and tolerated the making of religious terrorist groups whose only agenda is and was to kill the followers of the opponent sect in the name of their version of Islam and in the name of the creators (Allah).

    Pakistan is the only country where the security services were involved in the massacre of their own people and now their investment is paying back and the country is on the brink of civil/ethnic and perhaps sectarian war – sooner or later!

    The important question to ask: from where are these terrorists getting their training and large quantities of high quality explosives? They are being chased in Afghanistan, Musharraf’s regime is not their friends, Iranians don’t like them and above the Indians dont want to see these religious fanatics getting stronger and stronger. So would we be wrong to assume that there are still rogue and dishonest elements with our security services who are providing and all the material and technical support to these fake jehadis who are sacrificing children for their twisted cause?

    And Osama bin Laden? Don’t fool us that he is hiding in Tora Bora or Waziristan mountains! The Pakistani Govt or the US Govt should concentrate to look for him in the major cities of Pakistan, perhaps Islamabad, most probably being served and entertained by a retired Army high ranking officer in exchange for some money … of course again for the cause of Islam.

  42. Toryalai says:
    July 19th, 2007 5:52 pm

    To ??????????????????:

    This war has got nothing to do with Waziristan, Balochistan or Lal Masjid! The roots of this war lie in the Afghan war of 70′-80′s and in the twisted policies of Gen. Zia who abused religion and destroyed the very fabric of Pakistanism that was in the making!

    It will not go away with the going out of Musharraf.

    The only solution is ban the jehadi madressahs and introduce radical reforms in the rest of them.

    Pakistan is not going to progress with the length of the beard but with the height of wheat and other agricultural products as well as with the teaching of science and technology!

  43. Kruman says:
    July 19th, 2007 6:09 pm

    Good posts by Shafique, Ottomon and ????????, Shahbaz !

    There is one point on which everyone on this blog agrees, a democratic process with an independent judicairy is the only long term solution.

    On the short-term managment though everyone has his/her own opinion. This is the issue on which we are all really arguing. Here I agree with the views espoused by Shafique and Ottomon. Their cool headed counsel is what pakistan needs, only if someone in would listen.

  44. Bhindigosht says:
    July 19th, 2007 6:36 pm

    I think this chaos would have happened sooner or later. There was no way around it. I think there needs to be a multi-pronged approach:
    - immediate ceasefire; whatever it takes (jirgas whatever). This will give the Govt some breathing space to think through a strategy i.e. if they are capable of formalizing one
    - a sustained media blitz against the jihadis. The media needs to be co-opted by the Govt for this purpose. Those who are on the fence in this cause need to be tipped over into going against the jihadis. The people need to be behind any action against the jihadis…. that is imperative.
    - Announcement of election schedule.
    - All the parties getting together on one table for planning a resolution of this issue.
    - Mush needs civilian support for this. There is no other way to win this.
    We are also forgetting an unpredictable variable here; the CJ judgement…..I am not sure how that will play into this scenario.
    And last on my wish list…. cut the umblical cord with the US. Pakistan First!

  45. BitterTruth says:
    July 19th, 2007 7:12 pm

    Pakistani government particularly current army government has given least value to Pakistanis themselves. How long can people bear attacks killing children from US and Pakistani armies? When US attacks they say “sorry” but Pakistani Army insists that all of them were terrorists.
    Army should stop conquering there own people. Even former ISI chief Asad Durrani has said army should apologize for what it has done in the name of operations in various parts of country. Even when they can capture they prefer to kill..what else can be expect in return?

  46. Nihari says:
    July 19th, 2007 7:38 pm

    This can’t be good. Certainly not. We pray it is not so. Not only is this anti-Pakistani, it is anti-human, anti-civilization, anti-Islam, anti-muslim. anti-people. These are poor people. Also, an alarming rate of increase in missing persons is another cause for concern. The situation is not looking good. Not at all looking good. In fact, it is quite disturbing to say the least, and could even get worse before it gets better.

    I agree, society is deeply divided and at war with itself. But why now?

  47. MMM says:
    July 19th, 2007 8:04 pm

    This could be a sort of revolution, I’m not saying that whatever is happening is good or should have happened but all this could change the course of Pakistan, hopefully in the right direction !

    P.S. the old layout was better then this one please revert back !!

  48. July 19th, 2007 9:04 pm

    @Akif Nizam
    “…..and one should care what Naom Chomsky has to say about anything because …….?

    He is a linguist who writes books from his living room and gives lectures to make a lot of money.”

    OK, agreed,lets leave Chomsky, lets hear what U have to say. Chomsky is a business man, his WSF is also some business. U seem to be a real social worker, lets hear what U have to say your highness.

    btw, Chomsky also says that if u bomb terrorists, it will sprout a lot more of them. Just diffuse the situation for the time being and work on long term plans instead.

    But he is only some shmuck right?

  49. amina shah says:
    July 19th, 2007 10:15 pm

    Marshall law declaration and suspending election for next 2 years can save situation. Law and order does not exist for elections

  50. BD says:
    July 19th, 2007 10:42 pm

    Marshall law declaration and suspending election for next 2 years can save situation. Law and order does not exist for elections

    True independence of judiciary. I think that’s should be the first effective step to tame the law and order situation.

    The scenario of marshal law being able to solve law & order problems sounds seductive, but is far from so.

    The problem with marshal law is that only few people call the shots. Power is concentrated. And as we all know, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    Musharraf had been promising from day one that he would ensure judicial independence. Why do you think he never amended Article 209 of Pakistan’s constitution?
    The answer is infront of you. Musharraf is after all a human being sharing all human weaknesses. What we need are institutions, not individuals.

  51. Nauman says:
    July 19th, 2007 10:52 pm

    In my previous comment under Islamabad bombing article I mentioned that there should be FATWA declaring that suicide bombing is haram. My friend Adnan Siddiqi mentioned that there was already a FATWA regrading this online. Some other friends mentioned in that thread that this FATWA thing would not work. Well Adnan Ok if theres is FATWA already there, fair enough, BUT how many people know about it? Do you NOT think it is in desperate need of publicity through proper channels? I have never heard in any news channel about this FATWA.
    Regarding the growing divide in our society, well I would say lets not blame each other. Let’s not take side of anybody whether Pervaiz or Benazir, MQM or Tehreeke-e-Insaf, Maulana’s or Tribal leaders. Looking at our present situation, who is happy? Our enemies. Our priority should be our HOME (Pakistan). We can not afford to KILL our very own people and please outsiders. Does anybody remember that a month ago a young british toddler was abducted in some foriegn country and how the media broadcast the story. That one british national was so important to them that it became International story. Westren media would make it a big headline if even one of their soldier would get killed. My point is they value their people a lot. We MUST learn from them. We should value our people and from that I mean that NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES we could entertain foreigners with the BLOOD of OUR VERY OWN people. & Who is foreigner in our case…. USA and its PHANTOM ENEMY Al-Qaeda(Created by USA itself in 1998).

    I pray that Allah gives us a right leadership before its too late. Amen

  52. MZ Khan says:
    July 19th, 2007 11:16 pm

    Setup lots of schools to enable 100% of child population to have access to it. Serve meals during school time and provide boarding facilities where needed. Perhaps provide some scholarships to deserving children. This would address the basic needs of many parents for which they enrol their children in madrassas. Next use laws effectively to prosecute anyone who perpetrates or supports terrorism.

  53. Kruman says:
    July 19th, 2007 11:32 pm

    Perfect BD! Keep up the good work! I have nothing to add after your response.

    A note to Ms Amina Shah: the last time there was a martial law after long rule by a general, the country disintegrated i.e. when Yahya Khan imposed martial law after Ayub’s tenure.

  54. Shehzad A says:
    July 20th, 2007 2:00 am

    The soulutions proposed by Kruman, BD etc. all somehow sound too naive and simplistic. Utopian even.

    “Free and Fair Judiciary” takes generations to develop. Just a passing look at the way our lawyers behave should be indictive of the fact that the players are still very immature(for lack of a better word).

    “Free and Fair Elections” is not the panacea for all problems – look at Iraq – the violence has only gotten worse after the elections.

    “Sending Musharaf and the Army back to the barracks” – Can not argue with that.

    What we are suffering from today is the cumilation of years of mis-rule, greed and short sightedness by our leaders – OUR leaders! not America not India not Russia etc. I dont think there is a quick fix for this.

  55. Kruman says:
    July 20th, 2007 2:08 am

    Shehzad, so is desperation your solution. I hear you whining about others giving people a sense of hope, but nothing concrete.

    Today is a landmark day, you are witnessing the demise of the last military dictatorship in Pakistan. It will be the first major step towards an independent judiciary.

  56. Cameo says:
    July 20th, 2007 2:23 am

    I always knew, this is going to happen in Pakistan, and Pakistan will be the next Iraq.

    You can just compare and see that we have all the ingredients and more for this to happen:

    - Sectarian and religious divide
    - Bigot mullahs,
    - Intolerance
    - Pure ignorance and illiteracy
    - Population in miserable economic state
    - A ruling elite headed by military and a huge social disparity
    - A dictator who cares nothing but how to extend his rules for as long as possible
    - American involvement in the form of war on terror

    I don’t see this as a surprise, and people who think its just reaction of Lal Musjid incident, all I can say is ……….. wakeup!!!!!

  57. July 20th, 2007 2:36 am

    War on Terrorism to Last for 20 to 30 Years, U.S. General Says

    “We never rule out any options, including striking actionable targets,

  58. Shehzad A says:
    July 20th, 2007 3:15 am

    Kruman, I do not pretend to have a solution. Infact i did not intent to demean your post in anyway. I appreciate optimism I really do. I wish I was more optimistic.

    Im just trying to point out some flaws in your arguments – isnt that a good thing? a mechanism for improvement. for example,

    “Today is a landmark day, you are witnessing the demise of the last military dictatorship in Pakistan. It will be the first major step towards an independent judiciary.”

    How do you know its the last military dictatorship? how do u know the next General will not follow his predecessors?

    The Judiciary has been equally corrupted by the Politicians, Businessmen, Lawers, Judges etc. etc. so how will winning this “case” against Musharaf change anything.

    Blind optimism can be more dangerous than “whinning”

  59. libertarian says:
    July 20th, 2007 3:24 am

    Kruman: every day is a landmark day in Pakistan. What’s different about today?

  60. steve says:
    July 20th, 2007 3:30 am

    No big deal. If you really think about it, what if this is war and those tribal areas want to break away? Will Pakistan be any lesser? Really, if they will go away and make Pakistan more effective at dealing with them, good for us. Balochistan may cost a bit in terms of natural resources, but I bet they too are a greater liability than an aid. So I dont get what people are we wailing about here.

    If its people being killed, well, that happens all around the world. If its Pakistan’s internal security, the best thing yet to happen may be to get rid of these unruly, useless, FATA areas….

    So take it easy and save yourself the stress.

  61. Kruman says:
    July 20th, 2007 3:36 am

    Shehzad sahib,
    You may choose to ignore, but several events in the last 4 months have been unique.

    Never has a segment in our society displyed “unity, faith and discipline” like the lawyers. Their dedication and commitment started the downwards slide of the military regime. In my opinion the legal fraternity is the true inheritor of Quaid’s legacy.

    Never before have the judges been blamed publicly, ridiculed and criticized for their past judgements like the Tamizuddin case. There is enormous pressure on the judges to come clean this time.

    CJP has rallied people unlike anyone since Quaid. Did anyone ever wait for a politician for 26 hours?

    Men of credible standing have stated that Pakistan has changed. Tanvir Ahmad Khan sahib said it best, “Pakistan has simply outgrown the era of civilian and military dictatorships.”

    I was quoting Nawabzada Nasrullah who stated, when Musharraf usurped power, that Mush will be last military ruler of Pakistan, and he’ll be the first one to be imprisoned. Nasrullah was a veteran and seasoned politician and did not make inane statements.

    Finally, you may want to check:

    before you start whining about “blind optimism” again:)

    July 20th, 2007 3:39 am

    Abrar Siddique,

    Who is going to replace him our beloved leaders Nawaz or Benazir, or do you have anyone else in mind?

  63. Kruman says:
    July 20th, 2007 3:44 am

    Can’t argue with you there.

    In case you were unaware, the supreme court gives it’s ruling on the chief justice’s petition against the presidential reference today.

    General Musharraf had asked the chief justice to resign on March 9th. The chief justice defied the order and was ousted. He decided to take his case to the supreme court then and the ruling is expected today.

  64. MZ Khan says:
    July 20th, 2007 3:49 am

    What guarantee do we have that today’s decision would be in CJ’s favour? Until it comes out we don’t know.

  65. Shehzad A says:
    July 20th, 2007 3:54 am


    Let me ask you a simple question then…how many rallies did you attend?

    Lets have a show of hands – People in Pakistan on ATP how many rallies (that are in dispensible to our eventual freedom) did you attend ?

    It shocks me that you do not see egotism and self preservation as major motivating factors of the lawers movement – and you think they are “disciplined” – so you appreciate lawers wailing sticks and beating up anyone who disagrees or depriving people by their frequent strikes?

    The world is not so Black and White my Naive Friend :(

    If you have an eye for saviours, watch Live Free or Die Hard (Awsome Movie) and Bruce Willis is slightly better looking aswell (compared to CJP) ;)

    July 20th, 2007 3:57 am

    @Akif Nizam
    Let’s hear something from Adil Sb about Noam Chomsky probably he is in a better position to tell whether he writes from his living room to make money , or does he talk with facts about what has happened till today and what is going to happen. Or may be he is some kind of puppet to condole the grievances of third world.

    I believe we all need to remind ourselves of the basics of Unity, Faith and Discipline. I guess it is high time for all of us to revive all these three in our nation, and Mr Steve i highly doubt your intelligence when you go on to say, get rif of FATA and Baluchistan as they are liabilities, please stop this ‘divide and rule policy’, we have already suffered alot from these divisions and cant afford any more.

  67. Kruman says:
    July 20th, 2007 4:02 am

    I read this in a CJP rally: Teri ik na nay, tujhey amar kar diya

    Translation: Your one act of defiance has made made you immortal i.e. you’ll go down in history.

    This is enough for naive and gullible people like me.

    I rest my case here, I am not arguing any more. Let’s just agree to disagree.


  68. Shehzad A says:
    July 20th, 2007 4:05 am

    Kruman, I hope & pray you are right.

  69. Ahsan says:
    July 20th, 2007 4:23 am

    Yes, it is not just anti-government. The state has all the power and authority to crush any movement against itself. It can not be termed as anti-state. The citizens of Pakistan will not fight against Pakistan. So, this war is not anti-Pakistan either. And anti-Islamic, it is certainly not.

    Adil, you are right it is anti-human. We Pakistanis have lost the human qualities and we belong to a fractured society. This is not the doing of the people. It is a long process which started by our leaders right after the birth of the country. We have divided ourselves into a number of power groups fighting for the Power of the state. Pakistan does not belong to people but to the group which grabs this Power.

    This selfish attitude of our leaders and the establishment has brought us to the present situation. I will rather call it Chaos. It is not terrorism as in Iraq, Israel or Afghanistan. In these cases the terrorists have their well defined enemies. It is not a civil war like American or French civil wars. In the first it was North aganist South and in the second it was People against the Royals.

    In Pakistan, there is a complete disorder and the state has lost its writ to this disorder. The chaos can be brought to order by a sincere, just, honest and strong person by force. Had we a person of these qualities, we would not have come to this situation.

    The other alternative is that all different groups come forward to establish a peace among themselves and work together to work for a strong democracy in Pakistan.

    Otherwise, the nature will take care of itself. We know that every war ends in peace!

  70. Saad says:
    July 20th, 2007 5:33 am

    Shehzad, I did and not once but for 4 times in Islamabad.

  71. Cameo says:
    July 20th, 2007 7:27 am

    breaking news….

    Chief Justice has been reinstated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  72. Toryalai says:
    July 20th, 2007 7:45 am

    Now he must visit Quetta from where he hails and where he had had the chance to become a chief justice of Balochistan High Court. He ows major chunk of his career to the people of Quetta and Balochistan!

  73. YLH says:
    July 20th, 2007 7:46 am

    Here is some good news: CHIEF JUSTICE OF PAKISTAN restored 10-3.

    What a victory for Pakistan.

  74. Ahsan says:
    July 20th, 2007 7:51 am

    Yes, what a victory! I just heard on CNN of the CP decision in favour of the reinstallation CJP. At last there is some bright light in the future of Pakistan.

  75. Saad says:
    July 20th, 2007 7:59 am

    Allah o Akbar!

    Chaudhary Iftikhar has now retaken his office of Chief Justice of Pakistan.

  76. Kruman says:
    July 20th, 2007 8:02 am

    Congrats to all the jan nisars of chief sahib. Congrats to the Pakistani nation.

    Dil bhi kala, moo’n bhi kala
    Pervez kutta wardi wala

  77. Eidee Man says:
    July 20th, 2007 8:09 am

    Chief Justice has been reinstated by a majority of 10-3. This is a great victory for the judiciary and indeed all of Pakistan. I’m visiting Pakistan these days and am getting to see the historic coverage by the press. The new Dawn News channel is particularly impressive.

    Almost simultaneously, Shaukat Aziz released a statement saying that the constitution and the law of the land has prevailed. Not that his approval was needed, but this statement is hopefully a signal that Busharraf and Shortcut will not try to create some sort of chaotic situation.

    Hopefully other judges from the supreme court to the lowest magistrates will take strength from this decision and for the first time stand up for the constitution.

  78. Zobaria says:
    July 20th, 2007 8:41 am

    Well, Shehzad so did I … when he came to Lahore (I am no lawyer). By this time news is everywhere, so … congratulations!!!

  79. Alex L says:
    July 20th, 2007 12:40 pm

    Well, every one has posted their comments and opinions,which are quite accurate and similar.But,tell me if you guys can,in our society right now at this moment who is in majority…. radical thought proces or a process which is amalgamation of islam and modernism.Please tell me cuz i am curios about where our country is going with this and the doers of all this think that it is justified?
    May ALLAH bless pakistan

  80. July 20th, 2007 4:14 pm

    Hate to be the bearer of bad news today, but as many would have heard there was a planted bomb found in Karachi which was, luckily, discovered before a blast. Similar news from Lahore where suicide bombers were discovered (I assumed caught).

  81. Sager says:
    July 20th, 2007 4:46 pm

    Enough putting blame on US or some other outside “hand”. All this mess has been created by our own crazy Pakistanies. PERIOD!
    We get very emotional very quickly but we do loose the big picture. All this could have been avoided if these two nutt jobs have not gone too far. They should have been dealt with, when they first started. All these bombings and killings will only prove that we as a nation have plenty among us who are fanatics who are willing to kill you even in Bajamaat Namaz prayers.
    I have no complain about the respected Madrassas & other Religious institutions like Tableghi Jamaat etc. They are a great service for mankind in general. Their is no force in My Islam, No Zabardasti at all. I have been extremly disappointed by such people who wants to bring Inklaab or whatever u wanna name it. All this is gonna bring is shame. There are Madrasas in India, Malaysia, Saudia also, they are not burning Cd shops, forcing people to change etc. This is only happenen in my Pakistan.
    Wake up people for our Current & Future generation, people will start thinking that all Mullahs are crazy. They can brain wash your kids etc so dont send em to learn Quran @ masajids just teach ‘em home or just pray home. Dont go to Masajids, you see where I am getten.
    I hope we can start looking @ ourselfs & see where we are headed. This has nothing to do with Musharaf, BB or any other political group.

  82. Adonis says:
    September 4th, 2007 12:45 am


    Is this really a war declared on Pakistan by the fanatics or is it a war between two sets of fanatics (religious and secular) and Pakistan is the one suffering as a result?

    The best way to stand with Pakistan is to shun both sets of extremists and restore the sovereignty of the people. Both these sets of fanatics are criminals and they can only be defeated once they are isolated and do not enjoy any support in public. Only a government representing of the views of Pakistanis can do that. This is the solution that Imran Khan and Nawaz Sharif have been advocating and this seems to me to be the only way forward.

    Those who have turned Pakistan into Algeria are traitors and deserve to be treated as such.

  83. September 4th, 2007 2:10 am

    is it a war between two sets of fanatics (religious and secular) and Pakistan is the one suffering as a result?

    nods- well said.

    Offcourse Adil et all have no moral courage to admit that there is something called secular extremism.

  84. AUK says:
    September 4th, 2007 2:33 am

    The worst thing that this government can do is to use the murder of its innocent citizens for political mileage and to further their illegal rule. If they try to do this (we will find out in the next few days), then they will be an accomplice in these gruesome acts.

  85. Abu Taimoor says:
    September 4th, 2007 2:39 am

    Do you remember “Hamood ur Rahman Commission report”?
    Well I think we need to have yet another report on current situation by an independent commission headed by a retired Justice like Wajih ud Din or Nasir Aslam with members from civil society, Journalists, University professors etc. This commission should write a comprehensive report shedding light on the reasons of our national turmoil as of today. What went wrong during the last 30 years? Who were responsible to introduce Kilashinkov culture in Pakistan? Who designed the Afghan policy of 80s and who were responsible to lose Sia Chin glacier to our enemy? Who were responsible to provide arms and ammunition to these Madrassahs and Mosques? Who exploited the wonderful idealogy of Jihad in Islam to benefit their masters in white house and pentagon? Who misled the poor and sentimental people of ruralPakistan in the name of Jihad?Who was responsible for the mis-adventure of Kargil?
    Well, there are numerous unanswered questions today in the minds of millions of Pakistanis. We’ll have to dig deep into the history to find the facts and these findings will convert many so called heroes to zeroes.

  86. Dewana Aik says:
    September 4th, 2007 3:12 am

    Let?s happily allow these Mullahs to kill us all…..or we?ll be branded secular extremists?

  87. AussieDude says:
    September 4th, 2007 3:59 am

    Its extremely sad. Its my city, my home. I can’t bear to see it all go down … but thats what exactly I am watching. May Allah bless this nation with someone who has the fikr/party and the will to change it from top to the bottom. When Army starts meddling in politics, this is what happens. Especially an army which is under direct command of US. Shame on us.

  88. Abu Taimoor says:
    September 4th, 2007 3:59 am

    We better see the root causes and don’t simply blame the mullahs or liberals. There have always been mullahs and moderates but things were not so so bad as these are today. Where did we went wrong and who is responsible for that? We’ll have to identify the reasons of illness before suggesting any cure.

  89. September 4th, 2007 4:20 am

    @Abu Taimoor: Newton’s third law is not a rocket science that one can’t comprehend at all.

    to every action, there is always an equal and opposite reaction

    If you slap someone one then it would be silly not to expect a slap in return. I do second you that same people existed in past as well but in past no one tried to slap opponents to show off “Dada geeri”- Musharraf slapped many communities in the name of secularism and enlightenment and now people of his own cabal(Army) are suffering due to his state sponsored fanaticism. He tried to impose his fanatic secular views and his views were backed by so called expats and desi enlightened which created a severe chaos in country. Therefore when I said that secularists have no moral values to recognize filth within their own community so it definitely meant fascist elements like Altaf and Musharraf who used this country as a playground for their own games.

  90. dawa-i-dil says:
    September 4th, 2007 4:57 am

    Do you not know this simple fact that newton’s 3rd more applicable to our social life rather than Physics…

    do you not know..what this general did in 8 years to change the ideological islamic axis of pakistan….

    nobody wants cave vesrion of jahil taliban type islam in Pakistan…but is it means that you start Sharab-o-Kabab every nook and corner of the country… semi nude Marathon races…the cable dish atmosphere… ..indian culture…the indo pak blend of film and drama industry…music cocerts in army areas in whole Pakistan…where these generals…having drinks in hands….dance with the singers…..

    * do you not know what is happening in pakistan in whole this dictator era….the Basant ….and mujras..and chaklas …stage dances…..and brothels….where were they leading to pakistan….

    This general….asked for Imam-e-Kaaba …last few months..when the whole country stood with CJ of Pakistan..why not he remebered to have one more Marathon Race…with logo Dor mairai Lahore…..why he invited Imam-e-Kaaba..and start giving proofs of his entering the Khana Kaaba and on his roof….

    can you change the religious axis of pakistan on the name of so called Enlightened Moderation…..can people will accept all these things….

    will they not react….before this Dictator..where were all talibans…when they actualy ruling in Afghanistan..there was no talbinization in whole pakistan..and when they are not actually on the scene..suddenly..this Talbinization ..reached inside Islamabad…why ???????

    When you try to change the mindset of traditions..then be ready to face the music also….

    do you know…the ISI HQ is about 200 or 400 yards from the Lal Mosque….

    * the petrol bombs…rocket launchers…gas masks..accumulated to this mosque in invisble mode…i think…..

    * the ISI personals were drinkinng daru ..and enjoying soota of powder wali cigaratte when all arms were going in…..

    * is it possible that..inside heart of a capital..and adjacent to ISI HQ….the dangerous arms keep on gathering….

    * The baighairat general and his bloody baihgat generals ka tola …instteadof using IB..MI..and ISI for national security..were using them to gather funny and ridiculous….proofs of Chef Justice inside house photographs..bugging the 19 SC judges…phone tapping…and threatening them with pressures…..Lanat on them…is in UK or USA..can you think..the government can do such dirty things….

    * bugging of all High Courts ..and judges housese so that they cnnot unfold..the Chor Bazari..of the government..and black mail them…lanat on all the Baighatrs general’s Tola again….

    *when secret agents are on phone tapping of judges…can they know..wht is happening inside the heart of capital…

    in the early days…he started to change the religious axis of pakistan….

    his first picture front of PM house with small dog in his hand….to show people he is very moderate….

    he lived in he fisrt declared that his most beloved personality is Kamal Attaturk…so..he wanted to transform pakistan into Turkey..and considered himself as Attaturk of Pakistan….

    but thanks god…the religious masses of pakistan were so strong that…despite of his 8 years ..efforts..he could not change the pakistan into secular Turkey..and also infleunced the Army to be like Turkish Natinal Army..but he also failed in this regard…

    though these efforts..he made enormous losses to whole Pakistan idelogical axis..with a lot of anarchy and suicide bombings…and reactionary efforts of Lal Masjid..etc….

    On Basant 6 years..full time …Baighairti…Shabab-o-Kabab mehfils..mujras..and other things…he himself was in Lahore on basant nights for 6 years..when atlast Supreme court put a complete ban on Basant….

    He also tried to secularize the Army by regular basis musicaol concerts in every garrison and Abrar ..and other were invited on night dinners…there..still today….while Zia ul haq..never allowed that…

    In his foolish thinking that iNdia will compromise on Kashmir..he turned whole pakistan media into indian culture..Meera going there..there singers and actors..and film stars coming here….but the Indians shown him boots on Kashmir dialogue at all…

    he ordered the music classes in Punjab university..although students protested against that..but his nasha of enlightened moderation was overwhelming him…

    PTV ..and other private channels are so much that sometimes they beat even indian channels in nudity and baighairti ..but no check from government at all….

    these all are the fruits of this Dictator era…

    We ahave started fight with those people which are the bravest people on face of not accepted even British rule..which even not accepted Russian super power..and crushed it into 26 pieces…which freed half of kashmoir …for Pakistan..which for 60 years ..never created any problems..for Paistan….

    But Dictator …denied policy of Jinnah…and start bombarming thier own Bajur.doma daula…etc etc…withut proofs..killed 82 innocent children…killed by US missiles…but pakistan dictator shamelessly….said..they are killed by Pakistani forces….

    when you did all this..then be prepare to bear the brunt….

  91. Dewana Aik says:
    September 4th, 2007 5:09 am

    Are you saying naach gaan justifies suicide bombings? Those dying in suicide bombing are not the same people who indulge in shraab o kebab. These victims are by and large lower-middle class or lower class people who have barley means to provide life’s necessities for themselves.

    There is simply no excuse for the horrendous killings of innocent done by Talibans/Mullahs.

    ….even shariat is not on your side on this one.

  92. Dewana Aik says:
    September 4th, 2007 5:15 am

    “when you did all this..then be prepare to bear the brunt?.”

    In other words Mullahs will suicide bomb us into accepting their shariat…

    What shariat is that, that justifies suicide killings, in the first place? Let these Mullahs answer this question before trying to shove their dark ideology down our throats in the name of shariat.

  93. September 4th, 2007 5:38 am

    Interesting- *grin*

  94. Dewana Aik says:
    September 4th, 2007 5:52 am

    “In his foolish thinking that iNdia will compromise on Kashmir..he turned whole pakistan media into indian culture..Meera going there..”

    I agree ‘Meera going there’ is pretty offensive..: D

    …still no justification for suicide killings…

  95. Dewana Aik says:
    September 4th, 2007 6:24 am

    Off topic but something that came to light recently from history of Rawalpindi;

    British rulers used mustard gas on Indian soldiers

    LONDON ? The British Empire used hundreds of helpless Muslim, Hindu and Sikh soldiers as “guinea pigs” in gas chambers in their laboratories at Rawalpindi in the 1930s.

  96. asa says:
    September 4th, 2007 6:59 am

    picture at top requesting to All paki Army Generals plz for God Sake leave this country alone,how long u destroy this country…goto barracks please.

  97. Naseem says:
    September 4th, 2007 8:37 am

    Assalamau Laikum,

    Pakistan has been going in circles looking for it’s identity for over 60 years. One has not been forthcomiing easily…so the army took control. Joining forces with the religious parties was a natural extension for the army, it all made sense.

    The training and subsequent deployment of soldiers of the deen led to many innocents dying in other parts of the world.

    The ISI and goverment sent them to foreign and see off ferangi. This was OK for Mujahdeen was doing it for Islam….and as long as it was Kaffir dying …did we care?….no ofcourse not ….long may it continue was the call from the ISI….did we ordinary peoples condemn it….no…muslims were not being killed so it was OK.

    This is a terrible stain on the thinking of the establishment…the peoples of Pak as well as the government were seen as instigigators of violence.

    Well 9/11 and Mushi’e decision to join the war on terror changed things on the ground. Now, Amerike bombs were killing Allah T’allah’s SWT chosen and THIS (all of a sudden) did matter to us. Now we started to look inwards and realised that perhaps we OURSELVES could be in danger. Never forget that in raising snakes…you could be bitten too….and so this is happening to us.

    The absolute core of this issue is that Pakistan was created on religious grounds…and that we are all living a lie …because we are not following Allah T’allah’s SWT divine laws to govern our country …we are thus being punished by Allah SWT and by our peoples ….living the lie is not comfortable for us…why are we so afraid of shariat….THIS is the solution to our problems.

    Let us all get closer to Allah T’allah and follow tenents of shariat….this will reduce corruption, natural Islamic leaders will arise and guide the country with assurity and in the way of Prophet Muhammed SAW.

    All else is false….only by following the Koran Sharif is where the salvation of Pak lies. Forget about Benizar and Nawaz, we need new younger leaders….those who understand the ways of the world, are modern …but love shariat too.

  98. Abu Taimoor says:
    September 4th, 2007 9:37 am

    Every country has an army but Pak Army has got a country— an open playing field. They are into every thing- politics, Business, Banking, Industry, Construction, Administration.Musharaf must be thinking that he made a mistake while appointing the chief justice of supreme court. Had he chosen a fellow general as chief justice he would have been a happy guy today. I think Pakistan’s name should be changed from “Islami Jamhooria Pakistan” to
    “Banana Faujia Pakistan”

  99. Abu Taimoor says:
    September 4th, 2007 9:46 am

    We can only get rid of extremists and suicide bombers if the 160 million people of Pakistan are involved in Government formation. Give these poor people a sense of participation and belonging. This country was liberated by people and not by Khakis.
    Khakis better go back to the barracks and let the people to decide the fate of their homeland.Its people, who should define the “National interest” or “National Security”. We don’t want a few stiff necked goofs to decide the fate of 160 million people on the instructions of their western masters.

  100. Ahsan says:
    September 4th, 2007 10:30 am

    The present event of war of the Army against the terrorists can not be termed as

  101. auk says:
    September 4th, 2007 10:59 am

    There is no evidence so far to suggest that these were suicide blasts. The bus explosion was so much more powerful than any suicide explosion that we have seen so far. Also the target for these blasts were civilians rather than law enforcement or military personnel, which would have suggested any link with the ongoing operations in the agencies. These incidents have to be viewed in the context of the political upheavel that is going on, rather than the trouble on the borders.

  102. Masood Afridi says:
    September 4th, 2007 11:13 am

    I must say, I am deeply deeply sad that so many people are actually defending teh murderers who did this! Shame on all of you who support such murderous acts. We are so blinded by our hate for the military govt (I do not support it either) that we are actaully supporting these fanatics who are the true enemies of Pakistan and of Islam.

  103. lida says:
    September 4th, 2007 11:46 am

    There is something seriously wrong with the version of Islam that is being preached in Pakistan and we need to ban all Madrassas and have them under Government control.

    If Pakistanis don’t wake up and deal with this issue NOW then this country is doomed!!!!. I say Musharaf enforce martial law and get rid of these extremists once and for all.

    We easily quote verses like ” if one person is killed then its equal to killng all of humanity ” yet in the name of Islam we have technically killed every single being in the universe 100 times over.
    This Saudi brand of Islam has to be eradicated becuase the Russians have left afghanistan and these schools need to be closed and replaced by government schools.

    I don’t know when is Musharaf going to wake up !!!! and deal with these Mullahs who kill their own people.

    These Mullahs should have a network like Edhi and help humanity instead of killing them.

  104. Khurram says:
    September 4th, 2007 12:03 pm

    I want the right to practice my religion on my own. I do not want anyone else to impose their religious views upon mine. Whether I am a good muslim or a bad muslim is between me and my God. If my views make me a secular extremist then I am proud to be one.

    Inciting hate and intolerance is not justifiable under any condition. If we cannot agree upon this basic principle, then we will tear ourselves apart as a people. Newton’s 3rd law is a law of physics, not a law of society. Mohammad showed us that on numerous occasions when he forgave his enemies.

  105. Abu Taimoor says:
    September 4th, 2007 12:15 pm

    Everyone knows that fanatics are enemies of a society and no prudent personsupport them but we should understand the circumstances in which a normal person like you and me become a FANATIC. We need to know what happened during last 30 years and who promoted and trained all these fanatics of today? The same Fanatics were once known as heroes of Afghan Jihad. Our army and agencies always supported them but they changed this policy when US changed their mind after 9/11.

  106. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    September 4th, 2007 1:34 pm

    Condemning extremism by a secular ruler doesn’t mean endorsing bomb blasting. Musharraf’s regime is involved in killing and missing of thousands of people.

    Remove the sticker of “Jihadists”,”fanatics” from your spectacles as it would help you to see the real world rather the one which you want to see.

  107. Karim says:
    September 4th, 2007 1:44 pm

    I also condemn the supporters of fanatics here. making excuses by blaming these murders and these attacks against Pakistan on 30 years of history or on Afghanistan or on USA is useless and is just excuses. Yes, mistakes were made in teh past but I am concerned about today and these fanatics are killing my people today. There is no excuse for these murderers who had kidnapped Lal masjid, are brainwashing our young people’s minds, and are going around killing innocent Pakistanis. They are murderers and I cannot understadn how anyone can be denfending these murderers by making childish excuses.

  108. Abu Taimoor says:
    September 4th, 2007 3:12 pm

    I can understand that we have become very sentimental and off course a suicide bomb attack in the heart of Rawalpindi is really unfortunate incident. Govt. is saying that its reaction of Waziristan operation. My humble opinion is that ultimately the solution will be found through dialogue but unfortunately the khaki goofs, who are ruling us don’t believe in dialogue and they think that this matter can be resolved through gun. This is the main problem.They are using guns against their own people and the victims of these cruelities are becoming suicide bombers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Every action has a reaction

    Our rulers need to correct their actions to get desirable results but they are also helpless as they have to take dictations from Uncle Sam.They will have to change their policy of pleasing their masters. Its much easier to please your own people because Uncle Sam’s wish list is longer than Satan’s intestine (Sheta ki Aant).

  109. Aamir Ali says:
    September 4th, 2007 4:18 pm

    Dialogue with the Taliban in Waziristan resulted in them becoming stronger and not obeying a single one of the conditions. Of course some idiot pakistanis will continue advocating dialogue and blaming the government.

    I dont know if the Pakistani nation has the courage or strength to fight suicide terrorism. Most people in Pakistan dont even blame the terrorists, they blame Musharraf. Did bombings in Pakistan begin with Musharraf or have they been going on for 25 years?

  110. Masood Afridi says:
    September 4th, 2007 4:19 pm

    The people who are blowing up Pakistanis and killing innocent lives and bringing disrepute to teh name of my religion and highjacking mosques and brainwashing young women and NOT MY PEOPLE. These fanatics are murderers. I just cannot understand how anyone can see them killing innocent Pakistanis, kidnapping Pakistanis, and stil come hear and make excuses and defend them. I am appalled at how people can make excuses and support these terrorists who are our real enemies.

  111. Aamir Ali says:
    September 4th, 2007 4:59 pm

    Masood Afridi, I fully back your comments. Unfortunately you and I are a minority. Pakistanis seem content to blame the govt and fantasize that Musharraf leaving will end terrorism.

    We are a very confused and weak nation.

  112. September 4th, 2007 5:12 pm

    Terrible news, what is going on?

  113. Poulee says:
    September 4th, 2007 9:09 pm

    A great post…thanks for bringing it up for conversation.

    This is a war between Mullahs and Muslims. Unfortunaly, for now, Mullahs have killed more Muslims and they seem to be winning this war. Unless Muslims join forces in this Jihad against Mullahs, we are looking at another Afghanistan in the making. May God save us from that fate…May God save us from the Evil called Mullahs.

  114. MQ says:
    September 4th, 2007 9:41 pm

    News reports indicate that the bus that was targeted in the attack was carrying personnel of a “sensitive agency”. It seems the chickens that we have been hatching since the days of the “Merde-Momin” have literally come home to roost.

  115. Abu Taimoor says:
    September 4th, 2007 11:18 pm

    interesting comments, MQ. Well, this is bitter reality of the day.

  116. Dewana Aik says:
    September 4th, 2007 11:19 pm

    Some reports say it were ISI officials who were killed. Officials who would normally have investigated just such an incident. Incidentally their boss, ISI chief, is busy in Dubai negotiating on behalf of Musharaf.

  117. Adonis says:
    September 5th, 2007 2:35 am


    Why everyone is dead sure that it was the work of religious extremists? Their anger is against army and intelligence agencies. If the bus was of Atomic Energy Commission employees, it doesn’t make any sense for local extremists to target it. There are many external forces that are not exactly ecstatic about our nuclear program.

    It quite easy for ISPR to say that it believes these are suicide attacks even though. This masks security lapses. On the other hand those agencies that are supposed to protect people from saboteurs are busy concluding deals with PPP trying to prolong the disastrous rein of you know who.

  118. Timur says:
    September 5th, 2007 5:58 am

    What a shame in the name of religion!

  119. September 5th, 2007 7:03 am

    when you have killed thier innocent quran hufaaz children ..without any inquiry..and investigation

    Those you mentioned are not considered by _them_. They think it’s ok. Similarly religious zealots who kill others consider their act a noble act and think they removed the filth. In short, there is no difference between both parties. Both think they are right while actually both are just amuse themselves by promoting their own version of innocence and righteous path. In maths we used to study:

    Left Hand Side=Right Hand side

    so it works well for extremists and fascist of both right and left wing parties. If seculars think that there is no extremism in their cabal then they should consult some doctor to cure their mental illness.

  120. D_a_n says:
    September 5th, 2007 9:19 am

    To those here supporting the bobmer and defending them through their messages:

    Let me tell you this..

    My friend was travelling right next to that bus and had just crossed it by around 200 meters when the explosion happened…he was accompanied by his Wife and two children..I could have lost him and his two beautiful children who have spent hours chasing me across their garden…May Allah be praised for sparing them…

    It angers me to know that has I lost my friend and his beautiful family to these Mullah…
    you would be sitting…no hiding behind a computer screen somwhere rejoicing …with a gleeful smile on your face that these people had died a violent death…
    and the fact that I could do nothing about it is almost eating me up from inside…

    just what does your sick ideology teach you?? Why do you worship death and glorify Murder..and No this is NOT musharrafs fault…this has been around much much longer than him…

    May Allah never forgive you for finding merriment and mirth at the senseless loss of other innocents….
    Jackal Mullahs feeding off the carcas of Pakistan’s political instability….
    this sickness must end!

  121. Afreen says:
    September 5th, 2007 11:53 am

    Mr. Adnan Siddiqui, if you think that the peole on extreme right and extreme left are equally bad, then why do you constant and so strongly always defend those on the extreme right, even when they kill other Muslims?

  122. Afreen says:
    September 5th, 2007 12:01 pm

    (Sorry I put this comment in the wrong place first)

    The comments here by those defending the people who are killing innocent Pakistanis and innocent Muslims in the name of Islam reminds me of the scene in teh movie Khuda ke Leeye where these fanatics are killing other Afghanis and this guy killed by a fundamentalist dies while reciting the kalma. It was a very moving scene, and very sad too. But it seems that there are plenty of people ready to defend those who are killing other Kalma-Go Pakistanis!

  123. September 5th, 2007 1:49 pm

    Ms.Afreen, can you paste my statement(s) that I said that killing someone is right? if yes then do quote here otherwise don’t accuse someone just because you are unable to comprehend something. Instead of asking me, why don’t you have moral courage to condemn actions by Musharraf? if you think they are good then the people whom you call terrorist also think they re doing hence no difference between you and them.

    Today’s killing of ISI officials just reflect that what was planned by Musharraf’s army cabal is being used against them now. They made different parties to use against their enemies now they have become victim of their own products. “Mukafat-e-Amal”, this is something which is called in Urdu.

    D_a_n: may Allah bless your friend;s family Ameen but here a question arises. Here you are crying for your friend’s family because that family people were your friends. Similar hundreds of people who are missing and killed by musharraf, their family also cry and protest. Just read the papers for last 6 months, the pictures appear in which mothers and old fathers crying for their children. Imagine if it happens with you and some agency pick your son or brother for any fake reason, how would you react?

  124. Afreen says:
    September 5th, 2007 3:22 pm

    Mr. Adnan Siddique, since you asked. OK.

    I hereby condemn Gen. Musharraf and his actions. I condemn current and past policies of ISI. I condemn military dictatorship. I condemn dishonest and corrupt politicians. AND I condemn all Islamic fundamentalists. I condemn extremist mullahs who teach hate in the name of jihad. I condemn any and every person who kills innocent Pakistanis, including those who kill in the name of Islam and those who kill them in any other name. I condemn the killers who had taken Lal Masjid hostage and corrupted the minds of our young. I condemn Ghazi who held his own mother hostage and had her killed just for his personal fame. I condemn heavyhanded military action by government against lal Masjid when they shoudl have taken action against the criminal mullahs earlier by just arresting them way back when they first highjacked a children’s library. I condemn all actions by any and all foreign countries, especially including USA and Saudi Arabia, to interfere in Pakistan and to try to shape Pakistan policy through their dirty dollars and Riyals. I condemn all extremists and fundamentalists of the left who act in the name of liberalism AND I condemn all extremists and fundamentalists of the right who act in the name of Islam. I condemn all of them because they bring bad name to liberalism and bad name to Islam. I condemn all munafiqs who say something and do something else.

    How is that?

    Now, please, since I did what you wanted. Can you please join me in condemning ALL of the above. You can just copy the paragraph above and say you condemn them all too. I hope you will be able to do so, and if you choose to leave some of them out of the list we will all know what side you are on. Thank you and may Allah give you and all of us guidance.

  125. September 5th, 2007 4:02 pm

    What so ever going in the country clearly defines our capabilities which always hit on our faces after a short time benefit.

    May Allah bless us as our short sighted policy makers / janta is resulting in these results.

    One of reasons behind all these fiascos are so called management gurus (mostly FA, BA,BSC) sitting in all govt institutions who think that they are master of all jacks.

    Policies made by such individuals are 99% short sighted and self centric ones. Resultantly, after some time, they bounce back on our faces !!

    May God Bless Pakistan with Technocrates and Learned Leaders!!!!!!!!

  126. September 5th, 2007 4:19 pm

    Afreen you gave me a laugh. One can clearly smell baisness in your so called confession when you write one liner for Musharraf and lengthy post about whatever you believed/read/heard about your opponents. You know what? I could do same by coming up entirely different version about Lal Masjid case,Talibans,Waziristan or what not by saying Musharraf allowed NATO to kill Pakistanis, Musharraf kidnapped his own people,Musharraf SOLD his own people. Musharraf BANNED Pakistani Muslims to offer prayer in Shah Faisal Mosque and other mosques when he or foreigners visited Pakistani sites etc etc etc because you also believed in same media which I do but then my rant wouldn’t be considered so called “neutral” enough.

    Why did it irk you to come up with one liner that you condemn both secular/liberal extremism and religious extremism in Pakistan. Atleast I always believed in that and rejected the fanatics of both cabals. Unlike you, my statement is not an example of media propaganda and brainwashing and it’s applicable to any kind of extremism happen anywhere in the world regardless of who initiate that.

    Atleast I was being bandwidth friendly that I wasted less words than yours. Have fun! I don’t think I need to explain you further, however you are free to carry on. *grin*

    p.s: If you’re new on this site, kindly go thru archive of this forum by searching keyword “Adnan Siddiqi”, you would find out that whatever I _Repeated_ here was said several times by me in past.

  127. Afreen says:
    September 5th, 2007 4:39 pm

    Thank you Mr. Adnan Siddique for answering my question. You actually have made your position very clear on who you stand with.

    You are correct, I did give less lines to condemning Musharraf (although more than one). Interestingly you do not even have one line condemning anyone at all on the extreme right.

    So, let me give it one more try. I will use your list this time.

    Yes, I condemn Musharraf for using violence against Lal Masjid, Talibans, Waziristan. I condmn Musharraf for allowing NATO to kill Pakistanis. I condemn Musharraf for kidnapping his own people. I condemn Musharraf for selling his own people. I condemn Musharraf for Banning Pakistani Muslims from offering prayers (if he did that, I do not know if he did). I also condemn the murderers who had taken over Lal Masjid especially that Ghazi guy who had his own mother killed. I also condemn the terrorism of the Talibans. I also condemn the terrorism of the fundamentalists blowing up Pakistanis. I also condemn the extremism of the Taliban and the terrorism of Al-Qaida.

    Happy now? I have more lines condemning Musharraf and I have included every point you had wanted.

    So, now. Can you now please also condemn the extremists on the right. Since you keep saying you dislike both ‘cabals’ maybe you can for one condmn them too.Maybe even just one line. Please.

    And if you think my list of who is extremist on the right is wrong then maybe you can tell us who is the extremist and fundamentalists on the right that you do condemn?

  128. Adonis says:
    September 6th, 2007 1:54 am

    “and No this is NOT musharrafs fault

  129. Amjad says:
    September 6th, 2007 6:06 am

    The term FANATIC, EXTREMIST, etc,do not bother to those who believe in ALLAH, RASOOL, HISAB & Hayat Mim-Baad-ul-Maut.

    Once a soul departs from this world, there can be one of the following two outcomes:
    1) Eternal Success
    2) Eternal Failure

    There would be no third thing.

    Muslims who are focusing on attaining pleasures in Dunya should not forget that soon it will all END

    Muslims who are focusing on attaining pleasuers in Akhirah
    should be prepared for all round tough circumstances with firm believe in Allah, it’s only Allah’s support which can help us pass away successfully from this world.

    In Quran, Allah said, in more than one places which I can quote,

    Meaning: Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Apostle and those of faith who were with him cried: “When (will come) the help of God?” Ah! Verily, the help of God is (always) near!

    On Another Place Allah swt says:
    Did ye then think that We had created you in jest, and that ye would not be brought back to Us (for account)?
    So exalted is Allah, the Sovereign, the Truth; there is no deity except Him, Lord of the Noble Throne.

    If anyone invokes, besides Allah, Any other god, he has no authority therefor; and his reckoning will be only with his Lord! and verily the Unbelievers will fail to win through!

    So say: “O my Lord! grant Thou forgiveness and mercy for Thou art the Best of those who show mercy!”

    End Quote…..

    It’s Muslims who are born to die in the name of Allah!, no-one else.

    The world is and will remain decorated for Kuffar with their standard of livings.

    In the nut shell,
    Muslims are Muslims if they are extremists!
    Muslims are Muslims if they know how to die in the Islamic way

  130. Dewana Aik says:
    September 6th, 2007 7:09 am

    “Muslims are Muslims if they are extremists!”

    Excellent. Now let’s work to rid this world of extremists.

  131. Aamir Ali says:
    September 6th, 2007 11:23 am


    Bomb blasts have been happening in Pakistan since the 1980′s. They didnt start with Musharraf. The suicide attacks and other violence you have seen in Pakistan after 2001 is because of Alqaida/Taliban infiltrating our tribal region and lots of foolish Pakistanis joining them and becoming infected with their ideology.

    Musharraf has tried to fight this violent ideology and his leaving will not end terrorism in Pakistan.

  132. D_a_n says:
    September 6th, 2007 7:26 pm

    @ Adonis….

    No…these suicide bombings are not Musharrafs fault….
    these things have been cooking and brewing for decades…..

    It is not Musharraf who personally helps a Suicide Kaafir Mullah into his suicide belt…
    it is this Wahabi/Salafi mentality that performs that duty….which is same ideology which makes the ‘Students’ of Lal ‘Masjid’ take to the streets to ‘protest’ the (thankful) killing of Azam Tairq…a Murderous kaafir who spent much of his life advocating Gujrat style Genocide of Pakistan’s Shia population…….
    so this is where it comes from…..
    just by acting like we are NOT in a war with Kaafir Mullahs will not make this war go away and please be more ingenious …every problem being laid as Mush’s feet has a tired feel to it now…

  133. D_a_n says:
    September 6th, 2007 7:30 pm

    @ Amjad….

    typical tableeghi drivel….imagining things in the Quraan when there are none that match your twisted minds….

    just where in all that you write does it advocate for Muslims to kill and main other Muslims…

    Mashallah! Mashallah ! munafiqat know no bounds…

  134. Qadeer says:
    September 7th, 2007 12:25 am

    To all of the people who are giving excuses for the terrorists and advocating hate and violence in teh name of religion, all I have to say that may Allah give you guidance and may you one day convert to Islam. Until your religion is hate and violence there is little that one can say to you as you contiunue misquoting the Quran. Allah in sabb maulvioun ko aur apologists ko hidayat dey. Ameen

    Fi Imanallah

  135. dawa-i-dil says:
    September 7th, 2007 9:40 am

    we all condemn innocent killings….

    do all people also condemen 10,00000 innocentskillings in Iraq and Afghainstan ….but we take part in BUSH Iftaar’s party …laugh with he is a hero….specially APNA docs….invite congressmen..have a photo session that our fellow desis…will be impressed by us…

    is this not munafiqaat…..

  136. Jabbar says:
    September 7th, 2007 11:54 am

    dawa. I did not know that APPNA was blowing up Pakistanis and Muslims?

    The real munafiqs are those cowards who on the one habd call Islam a religion of peace and then go and defend the killers who are murdering others muslims and blowing up Pakistanis. There are many munafiqs like that here

  137. Dewana Aik says:
    September 8th, 2007 7:13 am

    “Jabbar..which thing brought tem to that point to blow themselves..”

    The realisation that their evil plans to enforce their dark ideology over everyone will not after all succeed. In sheer desperation and frustration they commit these crimes and in the process show the values (if you can call these values) they really stand for.

  138. sonum says:
    September 8th, 2007 6:14 pm

    i just want to say that what you are all saying is true.i have just lost some family members who were travelling on the bus that was blown up in rawalpindi,my ucle who was an old man and his son who had just been married for less then a year, and when it came to his funeral he was buried without his head or an arm.this is disgusting what is happening in the world aspecially to muslims, we need to stick together for this quamaat to end.i am so horrified in what i see and hear.please i say lets become one ummah and fight this together like muslims

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