Adil Najam
To view such a video and assume that all of Pakistan is against the Taliban would be as delusional as the proposition that all of Pakistan is for them is deceptive.
The point of this video is not that all Pakistanis are opposed to Talibanization. It is that not all Pakistanis are for them.
The distinction between the two is subtle, but vital. The video puts to a lie the notion that anti-Taliban sentiment are to be found only in the so-called “liberal” and “elite” classes. Indeed, the empirical fact is that the people who the Taliban and other religious extremist forces have been killing in Pakistan are (a) nearly all Pakistanis, (b) nearly all Muslims, and (c) none of them are either very “liberal” or very “elite.”
It should not be a surprise, then, that at least some, probably many, and possibly most, “non-liberal,” “non-elite,” Pakistani Muslims would be against the Taliban and the war they are waging on Pakistan, Pakistanis and on Pakistani Muslims. The tragedy is that too many Pakistanis remain agnostic on the Talibanization threat and even more who are afraid of or reluctant to raise their voices against them.
There is clearly a need to counter the propaganda of those who would have us believe that the Taliban are opposed only by a few “liberal elites.” But equally important – even more important – is the need to acknowledge and somehow deal with the deep fissures and divisions within Pakistani society. Indeed, if there is any one unambiguous truth about Pakistan today it is that we are a deeply divided society. Deeply divided on many of the most existential questions about the country’s past, present and future: Including on questions of what the Taliban represent and how they should be dealt with. It is this division that the Taliban are exploiting. Until these societal fissures are somehow addressed neither military action, nor political strategy, nor international intervention will make any difference whatsoever.
@ Ibrahim…
a couple of things here…
1. You have branded an entire group of People…the Barelvi’s as people involved in Shirk…nothing new on your part there….the real scandal here is that you are actively trying to ‘Outsource’ Allah (SWT)’s work unto yourself…ie, knowing what is the state of people’s faith and their Godliness…who is truly a Momin and Who is not..
…the arrogance is astounding….are you doing this because you think that the Almighty hasnt actually done a good job of it so far and you need to take over?
2. According to you:
‘Shariah offered by Taliban (which is not too off from the actual Shariah’ (with a few minor problems you added)…
responding to such mental farts is now completely beyond me…
all I can say is that may you and your kin live under this ‘so called sharia’ ….. I dont see anything but punishment for this…punishment for that….punishment for this and that….nothing beyond that…………………………………
oh and neither do I see anything ‘Sharia-like’ in digging up corpses and hanging them on public squares…..and maybe im slow…but I cannot see anything ‘sharia-like’ in killing a school teacher for the length of his shalwar….and I dont see anything ‘Sharia-like’ in beheading …what are effectively..Prisoners of war…and hanging their bodies upside down and placing their heads where there genitals should be…
I also dont see anything in sharia that forces me to deprive my child of Polio drops so that if he dies of Polio he dies as shaheed (a fun little description from 2007 from the Swat Taliban for why Polio vaccine isnt allowed by them)….
by all means…if you think Polio is good for your child…please go ahead…….INFACT….how come you and your family did not move to afghanistan and Swat later on if this is indeed your idea of a Utopian society?
so just to re-iterate…
I cannot answer everytime you have a mental fart and decide to let the rest of us bask in it’s stench and then ask how we liked it…..
yes…your post was long winded……and I want the 4 minutes of my life that I spent reading it….back …!!!!so I can do something more useful like watching grass grow…
I dont need to ask PMA or anyone’s uncle…or get their endorsement for what is my opinion about your post…..
PS: any issues with my prayers and beard? If so, please feel free to Sod off…
Where are all those cyber soldiers who were hyper enough in favor of Operation are hibernating and not leaving Pakistan and coming back to home to help more than a million people who left volatile areas? Where are all those extreme liberals who always make claims that they belong to Swat,malaKhand areas. Why are they not leaving their current countries and coming back to help their brothers and sisters? Who will help them? Why pro-operation supporters are not making any effort at all to feed those who did not leave their areas in the presence of “Evil” Talibans and they were forced to leave their places only after operation. Is it not ironic? so who is sounding more evil here? The Talibans or Pakistan Army? UN declared “World Biggest Flee” when 15Lakh+ people left their places. Why these people did nto leave their homes in the time of Talibans?
I think We are repeating same mistake which we did at the time of Lal Masjid, At that time it was media who was provoking for operation and when the operation was finished, same media was crying over killing of thousands of innocent students who were killed by fascist dictator Musharraf. The current Flee could blow up Zardari govt any time soon because things are very worst. Those displaced people are not being fed at all. Our so called liberals don;t have time to come out of pubs and take care of those who they call their “relatives”. Several hundred innocent people have been killed in the recent operation. Now you guys should not whine if their relatives are brain washed by our enemies like India,Afghanistan and Russia and use them against us because revenge can make a person to do anything. Lal masjid massacre gifted us suicide bombers. Now these “Panah Guzeen” who are getting settled in Karachi and Interior Sind and Punjab could be more lethal because one can’t figure out who is innocent among them and who is the real culprit. I do not understand how do they claim they killed xxx militants while even USA who have high fi technology could not create difference and killed several hundred innocents in drone attacks?
No wonder , the agenda of liberals that is promoting anti-Islamic things is in more danger after this operation because more people will be going to get back to Islam and study what actually it is and many others will get ready to take revenge of their relatives who are being killed by fascist army guys. In short, Islam is not getting suppressed anyway. I remember how many like me who hardly used to pray 2 times in a day and often skipped Jumma prayers were forced to study Quran with translation after so called 9/11 attacks and Iraq war. The problem for liberals and USA is not Talibans but Islam. If today some other xyz group stands up to implement Islam then all fundo liberals and their NGOs and USA would be after them. They are scared of Islam and I enjoy such fear among them. No matter how many people are killed, the fact will not change, we will have more “reverted Muslims” who would be made curious enough to study more Islam and why West oppose it.
I again second what PMA said that there are not even 1% people who favor liberals’ secular agenda or extreme view of Islam. The majority of Pakistan wants Islam in their lives. That’s unfortunate that extreme groups of left and right could not make it happen but one day it will happen and it’s in Islamic texts.
The fact remains that majority of Muslims in Pakistan belong to Bralevi sect of Islam.
According to Mr Ibrahim they are Mushriks or basically Kafir.
The duty of true Muslims should be to convert all Mushriks to true Islam first and then talk about implementation of true Sharia.If they are not competent enough to do so at least establish true Sharia in a country where they are in majority for example Saudi Arabia or Egypt.Thus setting an example for lesser Muslims to follow.
Until then please don’t encourage killing of innocent people in the name of True Religion.
So, Dan, as I said before, say what you want to say openly. Are you against Shariah or Shariah offered by Taliban (which is not too off from the actual Shariah…it’s shariah coupled with their ignorance of fiqh in some matters and some aspects of their culture). Let’s see if you can answer this question. And, since you seem to claim to know what Shariah is, explain to me if flogging a person in front of people is ok if that person is found to be involved in fornication. Also, explain if the one who implements “true Shariah” should do away with man-made laws contrary to Islamic laws and do away with judicial system based on Western style and replace it with Islamic judicial system (with Darul Qadha and all); also, should it stop dealings in interests in financial sector; and, put a punishment under ta’zeer for people (men or women) who expose their satr or have non-sexual but intimate relationship outside wedlock?
Many other questions spring to mind that a man of your knowledge and religiosity (as you have claimed several times before by mentioning your regular praying habits and length of your beard) should be asked about, but let’s see your answers to these questions first. Your emotional slogans hold no weight. “Mufti” Muneeb is a leader of the Bralwis and as such would know the Bralwi beliefs inside and out, which contain outright shirk (calling to other than Allah; Ya Muhammad Madad; Ya Abdul Qadir Jilani Madad; Ya Ali Madad); so he needs to first accept Islam before his views should be taken seriously on Shariah. And, this takfeer on Bralwi beleifs is from day one regardless of what Muneeb says or doesn’t say.
The circumstances today are differentiating the believers and the hypocrites. While others are trying to support implementation of Shariah while disagreeing with some of the actions of Pakistani Taliban, the Bralwis (Sunni Tahreek) are marching against it and in the process collecting praise from Altaf Hussien, of all people.
And, please tell me how my previous comment is long winded, rehashed argument for the benefit of all the readers. I mean I think PMA, who shares your ideology, would agree with me about the society in general. So, clearly, we’re missing something. Please reply to show how I’m wrong. This offer is open to others too, by the way.
PMA, it’s all about prespective. Adnan is absolutely right about what he says about liberals, and you’re right as well. I could say that Adnan sees the society as less liberal just like you see the wider society as less conservative.
These articles are worth reading and discusses the issue which I often discuss here and there about liberal extremism:
1) tinyurl.com/propaganda-mir(Hamir Mir)
2)tinyurl.com/col-abbasi (Ansar Abbasi)
3)tinyurl.com/col-sarwar