Adil Najam
Here is a rather gruesome ad from the Punjab Anti-Narcotics Force, warning prospective pilgrims going for Hajj to Saudi Arabia of the dangers of drug trafficking.
The painted bill board ad makes the point, rather graphically and quite clearly that anyone caught bringing drugs into Saudi Arabia will face death. One wonders, however, if that point is being made a little more graphically than necessary.
The wording on the billboard (seemingly quite large and on an outdoor public location) says:
Don’t unknowingly invite death.
By taking someone’s else luggage or unnecessary foreign or local medications do not put your own life at risk.
Taking narcotics or addictive elements to Saudi Arabia will result in a certain death penalty.
Anti-Narcotics Force (Punjab).
How, I wonder, does a parent explain to a child who sees this billboard why the Arab-looking man is beheading the Pakistani-looking man with such gusto.
One wonders who it is that really gives Muslims a ‘bad name’? The message for the prospective drug smuggler to Saudi Arabia is quite clear. But, what is the message for the rest of us? And the rest of the world?
Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, Iceland, Austria, Japan, South Korea, UAE, Qatar, Switzerland, Canada all these countries have a very low crime rate, be it rape, drugs, murder, embezzlement etc. They do not practice any of the gruesome punishments that Saudis do, so your justification fails here.
I lived in UAE for 18 years, we did not use to lock our houses or our cars. Never got robbed. Most of the people died in accidents, mostly run over by rich Arab youngsters who drove the fastest cars in the world.
45 men and 2 women were beheaded in 2002 and a further 52 men and 1 woman in 2003 in Saudi Arabia. If it was so effective method of reducing crimes why din’t the crime rate decrease?
Now crime in society happens because of social problems, people fighting for resources. Saudia is a freakin rich country, that is why the locals don’t commit crime, and immigrants living and working in Saudi don’t need to commit crimes like theft because there is no greed and no reason why do it and get kicked out with the hands cut off of course.
You will rarely hear about crimes being committed by Immigrants living in US.
Pakistan and Bangladesh are third world countries. No employment, discrimination, economic problems lead to crime in these countries most of the time. SAUDIS don’t understand this.
Going back to execution, Sword was the only weapon for execution then, if there were another it would have been used. And then there were no jails and prisons.
I also lived in Karachi for 6 years, never got robbed or had any body broke into my house. If things were very scary like presented by drpk everybody would have immigrated. Again I don’t want to portray a flowery picture of Karachi. Shit happens, it will also happen in SAUDIA.
@Mr Shah you said
“I find women in Saudi Arabia having much better lives than in the west �
The Question is Are they more happy then the women in west? Treating women has goats to follow you and your will is not being fair with them. Okay Islam provides rights to women, but that right is only practiced in Malaysia, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, OMAN and UAE not in Saudi.
There are not so many heroinches in UAE, Kuwait and Bahrain like in Karachi. Because look at the population, I believe its more then 1.5 Corers now. And what’s the employment rate?
And people who are saying that we should talk only about the bulletin board, Its just a stupid board, what more can we say about it. I have seen many of them in Pakistan.
I will tell you what the Pakistani mentality is; we always think that “Lathon kay booth bathoon say nahi manta�. IT needs to change.
I don’t want Saudi to strip down shariat laws but atleast do research and find what is motivating these people to do these crimes try to catch the big Fishes. Even try a better ways for punishments and entertainment.
MQ,
I think that you do not comprehend the reason why the laws are there for. As an example on what you said earlier:
“For example, we used to travel on camels. Now we use Cadillacs and planes�
Well, we do travel now, the question does not matter how, but the human need to do something, like travel, matters.
“We used to fight with swords and arrows. Now we use more sophisticated weapons.�
Again, we did fight, and will keep on fighting, and the laws deal with problems which are a result of fighting, not how people fight!
“We used the lunar calendar as our planner. Now we cannot.�
Oh really! We cannot! The idea of a calendar is to keep one parameter constant, and then plan your life according to this agreed-upon constant. Now, if you keep the moon constant, the seasons change, otherwise the moon changes! Why cannot I plan a meeting with a lunar calendar!? By the way, don’t think that the Georgian calendar is the one and only solar one, the ancient Persian calendar is also depends on the sun (or the seasons for that matter).
Now how many beheadings are there in Saudi-Arabia? More than the annual killings/murders in Karachi? or better, in Chicago?
Beheading is only a method of implementation, but the main underlying law is that the killer must be brought to speedy justice, with the flexibility that the family of the victim can also let him go! Now if he is laid to death, that is a right of the victims family, and if he is set-free with the consent of the victims family, this would have very positive (psychological) implications for the family and as well as for the killer! See how flexible it is! Can you bring something as flexible as that from the books you talk of?
And the people in charge of the law in Saudi-Arabia see a drug trafficker as a murderer of the society, and this is the reason why they treat a trafficker as a murderer! Don’t they have every right to do so?
Sajid,
You say my viewpoint on gruesome punishments [quote] “is not in line with ISLAMIC laws which have beheading, stoning, lashing etc. included in it. So you are trying to negate the law of ALLAH just to prove yourself modern and moderate.� [/quote]
First, a bit of clarification. I am not trying to prove myself anything to anybody because I don’t know anybody on this discussion. Nor do I expect to meet any of them. Secondly, “modern� and “moderate� are two different things. But that is a separate discussion for another day.
Regarding your statement of what is Islamic and what is not. We can go on discussing this till the cows come home but will not reach any conclusion. Such is the nature of all discussions that rely solely on interpretation of scriptures and not on reason.
There are a lot of things that we did 1500 years ago, but we don’t do them any more. Simply because they are practicable any more. For example, we used to travel on camels. Now we use Cadillacs and planes. We used to fight with swords and arrows. Now we use more sophisticated weapons. We used the lunar calendar as our planner. Now we cannot. (Try planting your wheat or cotton crop according to the lunar calendar and see where you end up. Or try scheduling an important business meeting according to the lunar calendar!)
MK,
Yes, I said that gruesome punishments do not necessarily minimize crime. There are other things that do. Where did I get this idea? I can assure you I didn’t invent it. There are tons of books and research papers on the subject of crime and punishment. Go to any good library or a large bookstore. You will find plenty to read on this subject.
And, by the way, Saudi Arabia itself is a good research laboratory on the subject. Were gruesome punishments a deterrent, they should have become redundant by now in that country. Why are there non-stop beheadings? Don’t forget Saudi Arabia, with a small population (little over 20 million people), high per capita income (over $10,000) and being a police state, is a very manageable country.
Shah sahib, you reminded me a quranic verse:
Satan said, “My Lord, because You misled me, I will make things on the earth seem good to them and I will mislead them all, every one of them, except Your servants among them who are sincere.” (Surat al-Hijr: 39-40)
Dear Shah sahib. Where was this ‘erotic car wash’ that you went to get your chaskas… Have never heard of this in Karachi. Was this Lahore? Islamabad?
About the rights of women that was just mentioned before by our sister. How we adore these rights that the West offers I must say!
Islam is un-paralleled in guaranteeing the rights to women, but I will leave it out of the equation here because it seems that we do not want any part of it in our lives, otherwise we would have implemented it with our own actions. Allah would find the people who want it Himself!
But none the less, I find women in Saudi Arabia having much better lives than in the west, as they are hugely respected, and are not exposed to the hardships of the society. Their finances and up-keep is guaranteed, and all they have to do is represent the other half of their families. If I would be offered such a security in my life, I really would have loved being a woman. And please don’t come up with the argument about the cowards who abuse their women, as such people are distributed uniformly all over in the world!
Now that the western culture is being bombarded upon us, our women enjoy both the freedoms of the west, with the guaranteed respect of the east!
To all these women adoring the west, I would love to fully westernize our society (completing the transition) for a couple of days, and observe them REALLY being equal to the men in the offices, and see them not getting those guaranteed seats in those small and rare busses, and also see them not being helped (extra out of the way favors) by their office colleagues, and REALLY work like men also in the end also nursing children which only they exclusively can!
Why is the population growth rate in Europe almost 0%! Because one can satisfy his needs just by sleeping with a woman without any commitment. Because if one commits himself (by marrying her), one must say farewell to 50% of his ownership, and guess what! With the divorce rate being at about 70% (e.g. central Europe)! So why not just be (essentially sleep) with her without marriage, till one finds another one to satisfy his needs!! Women-rights HUH!
The other day, I heard of a newly-opened “erotic car-washâ€Â?, and guess what, I also went there to observe (free-country, women have rights and can do what they want! Perfectly legal!). There, there were four sparsely dressed women washing cars with all their ….. with “dog-likeâ€Â? men sitting in the cars admiring them. I have never experienced such perfectly legal abuse of women ever before. Its like some product (beef) in some super-market!
I haven’t spent much time just a month or so durint two trips for Umrah. What I actually saw that most of guys who were punished by cutting their hands off were outsiders like Pakistanis, Bangladeshis,Sudaneese and Indians. Atleast I didn’t find any local with one hand. So it’s lame to blame govt while outsiders don’t learn lessons from such punishments even clear instructions are given on passport in both English and urdu.
Akif, have you guys recently got Internet in “Cholistan”?
Sajid, Khan saab ko ghussa na dilao. *grin*