Moin Khan: Former Wicket-Keeper, Current Wife-Beater

Posted on January 18, 2007
Filed Under >Adil Najam, Law & Justice, People, Society, Sports, Women
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Adil Najam

Back in July, ATP had posted a picture of former world squash champion Jansher Khan being hauled away in a police van on charges of trespass and violent attack on a woman. Now, Moin Khan, former cricket captain and wicketkeeper, has joined Jansher in the Hall of Disgrace for beating his wife.

Shame on you, both of you. You may once have been stars. You are stars no more. And, Moin, even if you have been freed on bail, that does not absolve you in our eyes for maltreating your wife. No Sir. This is not a private matter between man and wife. This is a matter of national disgrace. But my anger at this incident is making me run ahead of the story.

So, first the news as reported in the Daily Times (17 January, 2006):

KARACHI: Former Pakistan captain Moin Khan was arrested by the Darakhshan police late Monday night after his wife Tasleem alias Shama Seher made a phone call to Madadgar 15, complaining that he had beaten her.

According to Town Police Officer (TPO) ASP Azad Khan, the police received a phone call from Seher after midnight. A police team visiting the house found Seher standing outside and Moin Khan screaming at her from within. After a struggle, Moin Khan was taken in preventive detention under Section 151 of the CrPC, the TPO said. The couple was taken to the Darakhshan police station from where Moin was taken to JPMC for a medical examination. Seher was also taken to JPMC for a medical examination later on.

“If injuries are reported by the doctors examining her or a blood test confirms that he was intoxicated, the law will take its course,” said the TPO. Darakhshan SHO Inspector Zia Rizvi told Daily Times that this was a domestic matter, “but we brought it on to the court record”. Moin was produced in a local court and was granted bail. Seher told Daily Times that Moin had been disturbed for three days. “This isn’t something new, its been like this for a while,” she added. “He accused me of being involved with his friends. I asked why he was beating me and he told me that he hated the look of my face. He said, “Tum apnay gireban me jhanko, apni shakal dekho, apna character dekho” … There’s no special reason. Things were normal but I don’t know what had happened as recently he started to get harsh after drinking. I think that Moin still thinks of himself as a young star, Seher, a showbiz person herself, said. “Cricketers have the same life … (Another Karachi cricketers) wife recently separated and got custody of the children. Complaints remain as (many) cricketers treat their wives like this. Woh apnay beewiyon ke sath is tarha ka rawaiya rakhtay hain … Is tarha kay rawaiye mein kon sath reh sakta he? The problem with (some) cricketers is that they are getting better options outside the house. Unhain ghar ki murghi daal barabar lagti he.”

Both Moin Khan and the police seem to say that this is a ‘personal’ or ‘domestic’ matter. No, it really is not. It is a social matter. A national matter.

This case catches our attention because the man is a former cricket star and the wife a former TV personality. But the story here is repeated every day and goes unnoticed and unreported. His intoxication obviously made matters worse, but the malady here is deeper than alcoholism. It is the way women are treated. The Jansher case was one example, but there have been many others that we have raised here on ATP. Wife-beating is a serious social sin and the sinners here are not only those who do so, it is also those who condone it in the name of tradition or because it is a ‘personal matter’, and it is also those of see it happening and choose to remain quiet.

131 Comments on “Moin Khan: Former Wicket-Keeper, Current Wife-Beater”

  1. Arsalan Ali says:
    January 18th, 2007 1:22 am

    I just felt horrible after hearing this news.This guy used to be my favourite, i thought he was amongst the coolest cricketers in the world.Strange how a guy whose comical inputs from behind the wickets kept you laughing throughout a match, could be so prone to violence.Maybe cricket doesnt deserve all that worship afterall…

  2. Manzoor says:
    January 18th, 2007 1:49 am
  3. January 18th, 2007 1:49 am

    Moin Khan or any khan of cricket is an international celebrity not a god. What moin khan did is not different than things done by any other Pakistani husband[whether he's in Pakistan or not] . Just because Moin is a cricketer, we are expecting him to be a perfect soul and this is something which lack in us not in any star.

    [quote post="529"]You are stars no more[/quote].

    Why Not? For me he’s still a star and I will never forgot his contribution in 92 worldup,specially his unforgettable semi-final inning. I liked him because he was a good crickter and fighter. I don’t care how he leads his personal life. Shane Warne was involved in a sex scandal but he’s still an Australian cricket star and people love him. Many of us still love Imran khan despite of his old playboy image. I think we should draw a fine line between profesional skills and personal life. Moin should be punished by police and law, not by US because none of us can claim to be a saint here.

    [quote post="529"]This is a matter of national disgrace[/quote]

    ehehe, as If all other Pakistanis have done something good for this country? *grin*. People still remember what things happened in 71 war.

  4. mansoor says:
    January 18th, 2007 1:55 am

    adnan: the glories of the past do not allow you to be a demon in the present!

    The fact that he’s looked upto, makes it okay for a lot of people to mimic the way he is in real life too. Which is excatly why for him (or any other national figure) it is imperative they leave a good example for others to follow.

  5. Sufi says:
    January 18th, 2007 2:16 am

    Whats up with all the Khans being violent with the ladies :/

  6. January 18th, 2007 2:48 am

    Mansoor where in my post am I defending his wife beating act? What I am saying that highliting only moin khan just because he’s a star doesn’t help us to hide our own sins. This is my whole point. We shouldn’t expect much from others. Nobody is perfect, he’s well-known for his cricket not for his personal life.

    [quote post="529"]The fact that he’s looked upto, makes it okay for a lot of people to mimic the way he is in real life too[/quote]

    I hope you are not comparing Moin khan with that character “Ram Janay” of Indian movie?;)

    As I said tht we shouldn’t blame others for our own ignorance to deal different things in life. I wouldn’t sound sane if I beat my wife by giving justification that moin also did that with his wife.

    Sufi, Cynthia Khan is not violent with ladies :>

  7. Kashif says:
    January 18th, 2007 2:56 am

    Well actually there are more serious things in life than highlighting a man-beating-wife scenario. While I totally agree that a man shouldn’t beat or abuse his wife unless she has gone against the rules of shariah (and that too after warnings), I do not think people can learn anything from publishing a domestic quarrel. Please do not make ATP a tabloid.

    Also, why not look at other side of the story. What is Moin’s statement on this?

  8. drpak says:
    January 18th, 2007 4:24 am

    @Adnan: You write “I don’t care how he leads his personal life. Shane Warne was involved in a sex scandal but he’s still an Australian cricket star and people love him. Many of us still love Imran khan despite of his old playboy image.”

    You shouldn’t equate wife-beating with sex scandals/affairs – as if the two things were one and the same. Imran Khan and Shane Warne were never accused of violence against women.

    But in any case, Adil there are always two sides to the story. Let’s not be quick to pass judgment. Moin Khan only stands accused, not convicted.

  9. maverick says:
    January 18th, 2007 4:24 am

    Shame on you for judging him before even the medical reports are out. For all you know he might not have been drunk. For all you know he might not have actually physically harmed her. For all you know his accusations against his wife might be true; in which case even the Quran gives him the right to beat up his wife as a last resort (according to most interpretations).

    Even if the final verdict comes out against him, you have jumped the gun my friend.

  10. kashif siddiqui says:
    January 18th, 2007 4:38 am

    I completely agree with Adnan, Moin is not God, he is a human being just like me & u. He is still my hero.

    But, the fact is that, we r just viewing, the one side of coin. If a hero is a public property, then it should be check that allegation of drinking has proven or not through legal medical examination. The question also raised why he beaten his wife, what she did or argue after which Moin become aggressive. After all he is KHAN :)

  11. January 18th, 2007 5:23 am

    Drpak, i was not equating. I mentioned those guys because they also did something unpleasent in past but they are still liked by many people around the world due to their skills.

    [quote post="529"]violence against women.[/quote]

    First of all there is no documentary evidence against Moin so I might not believe in one-sided story neithe I consider moin’s wife a saint at this moment. Even if it’s true[which is sad] then this was not done first time in Pakistan. There are various ways Pakistani women[wives] are offended by others[including women(saas)] and wife-beating is not the single method to offend a woman.

  12. JayJay says:
    January 18th, 2007 5:30 am

    Religion is the last resort of a scoundrel. How can a man justify wife-beating? Only cowards commit violence against women.

  13. d1amondheart says:
    January 18th, 2007 5:47 am

    whatever said, it’s pathetic to beat a women. If she did something which you really can’t tolerate, just ask her to get out and get lost. But beating someone who is weaker then you is just not manly.

  14. drpak says:
    January 18th, 2007 7:20 am

    @maverick and adnan: You two seem to be doing at good job at explaining why women are treated so shabbily in our culture. One of you thinks wife-beating is on par with having an affair and the other thinks that Islam sanctions it. Bravo to both you.

  15. G.A. says:
    January 18th, 2007 7:41 am

    I guess everything is ok if religion permits it, even it means beating our wives if they go astray. What a ridiculous idea! Women are not animals, not that animals should be beaten either.

    Violence is only used by insecure cowards who cannot convince or persuade others and must resort to aggression. We should consider using our own judgment and critical thinking instead of being slaves to blind faith.

  16. MU says:
    January 18th, 2007 8:45 am

    If this isn’t trial by Media….. The guy still deserves some dignity as a human. His due punishment (if proven guilty in a competent court) will probably come soon but it should be through following correct legal procedures. Adil has certainly declared him guilty as charged as per post heading. Sensationalism yes, correct no.

  17. MU says:
    January 18th, 2007 8:55 am

    PS: I wonder if Moin can sue ATP for declaring him wife beater without legal trial. :) Who knows, whatever Moin gets from Adil makes Moin’s wife happy enough to take him back. :)

  18. Aqeel Syed says:
    January 18th, 2007 10:10 am

    I’ve heared this line from my elders.
    ‘Aurton ko marny waly bay-ghairat hoty hain’. It’s true and I believe it in.
    Well his wife’s response is very good :D Calling police. Beaware all Khan’s and husbands.

  19. Daktar says:
    January 18th, 2007 10:31 am

    KASHIF:
    [quote comment="28808"]Well actually there are more serious things in life than highlighting a man-beating-wife scenario. [/quote]
    Can you please tell me WHAT would be worse? This is MUCH more important than talking about silly politicians. This is the reality. THIS WRONG UNDER ANY CONDITIONS.

    MAVERICK:
    [quote comment="28825"]For all you know his accusations against his wife might be true.[/quote]
    So what if they are. THAT DOES NOT GIVE HIM OR ANYONE THE RIGHT TO BEAT HIS WIFE. And it does not matter who says so. Where is all that nonsense about justice and witnesses now? This is an example of how these people ‘interpretting’ religion have messed up religion and give it a bad name.

    This is wrong. Plain and simple. Under any and all conditions!

  20. MQ says:
    January 18th, 2007 10:36 am

    I have a question from the people of Sharia on this thread. What does Sharia say about punishing a husband if he misbehaves or goes astray? Does it allow the wife to beat her husband?

  21. Anwar says:
    January 18th, 2007 10:54 am

    He was arrested for assaulting his wife and what matters the most is that law was implemented.

  22. Akif Nizam says:
    January 18th, 2007 10:58 am

    The funny thing is that as soon as I started reading the news, for some reason I immediately thought that Adnan Siddiqui would chime in and find some way of defending Moin’s actions. Lo and behold, my instincts were right. What a shock to have a person who thinks that NGO are a Western conspiracy, that we don’t need laws protecting women and that purdah is the natural condition of (wo)man, to finally opine that we should not look at wife-beating with contempt because we are all sinners.

  23. ahsan says:
    January 18th, 2007 11:10 am

    [quote comment="28922"]I have a question from the people of Sharia on this thread. What does Sharia say about punishing a husband if he misbehaves or goes astray? Does it allow the wife to beat her husband?[/quote]

    Dear MQ,

    Are you provoking or simply making a joke? Have you ever seen a cow beating her owner? But rest assured Allaah will punish the misbehaving husband if He finds him guilty on the Day of Judgement. Do you feel better now?

    The problem is that my response to you does not caryy the religious authority since I am not an Islamic Scholar. Have Fun.

    Ahsan

  24. MU says:
    January 18th, 2007 11:25 am

    [quote comment="28938"] But rest assured Allaah will punish the misbehaving husband if He finds him guilty on the Day of Judgement.
    [/quote]

    Why don’t we leave everything else for Day of Judgement too? Why make the distinction?

  25. MQ says:
    January 18th, 2007 11:35 am

    Ahsan,

    I was not provoking or joking. Nor was I was talking of the life hereafter. My question was about the life here and now. If, as some people seem to suggest, the Sharia allows the husband to beat an erring wife, does it give similar right to the wife, that is, to beat an erring husband? After all, Islam gives equal rights to women. Doesn’t it?

  26. The Pakistanian says:
    January 18th, 2007 11:35 am

    A few days ago I stumbbled upon some videos on youtube regarding wife beating in Islam. Just search on “wife beating” and you will come across videos of some interesting debates on Arab channels (with english subtitles) about when and exactly how to beat your wife.

  27. Akif Nizam says:
    January 18th, 2007 11:36 am

    Ahsan, very funny !

    To all the Moin defenders, here’s his official statement upon posting bail,

    “I just want everyone to allow us the privacy to deal with the situation. My actions were emotional and should not have happened,” he said.

  28. Daktar says:
    January 18th, 2007 12:07 pm

    Thanks for clarifying this. For those who think this is jumping the gun and trial by media. Moin is actually acccepting he is a wife-beater. He is just saying its his private business. But the real thing is that so many people seem to agree that it is. That there are som conditions in which it is OK to beat your wife. THAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM.

  29. king_faisal says:
    January 18th, 2007 1:04 pm

    there are two issues here.

    first is the overall treatment of women who in traditional societies like pak are seen as weak. in such societies, the weak always get abused be it husband abusing his wife or rich begum abusing poor naukarani or wadera abusing haris or lafangas abusing and harrasing women in public places like bazars or public transport. the only way to deal with this problem is through danda. individual behaviour cannot be changed without deterrence. the good thing that will come out from moin khan incidence is that victims of domestic abuse should become a bit more aware that they have recourse – that they can pick up the phone and call for help when the situation gets to much to bear. i am also pleased to see that karachi police was able to respond promptly to the complaints of moin khan’s wife. one day inshallah every citizen of pakistan will have the same recourse regardless of his or her status in society.

    the other interesting aspect about the incidence is that moin khan is being declared guilty without a fair trial. here cue is being taken from gora press which is in the business of insinuating muslims are savages. in reporting on such incidences muslim man is always presumed to be guilty and insinuations are then made about behaviour of group based upon the actions of few individuals. abetting goras in this game are the local human right groups and ngo’s. people who run these groups know that their agenda has few takers in pak and therefore the must rely on goras for subsistence. i wont be surprised to see this story being given a lot of play in gora newspapers.

  30. January 18th, 2007 1:18 pm

    Why does it not surprise me that there are people on this forum who actually think it is ok for a man to beat a woman…

    “While I totally agree that a man shouldn’t beat or abuse his wife unless she has gone against the rules of shariah (and that too after warnings).”

    What a sad state of affairs. Sad but not shocking, since most Pakistani women suffer some sort of domestic abuse. Any kind of abuse is wrong and i dont buy into this crap about men having the right to beat women because its sanctioned by Islam.

    Its very convinient for men to use this argument. “Well Islam says we can beat our wives if they dont listen…” I mean come on, its 2007, you cannot beat your wife, you cannot beat anyone if you so choose. Take the matter to a family court, speak to the woman, do not lift your hand to strike her, you have no right.

    I have no respect for men like Moin Khan, they are weak characters who think it manly to raise their hands on their wives. It may be a private matter but the minute his wife picked up the phone and called 15, and the minute the case was brought to a judge, it became a matter of public discourse.

  31. Daktar says:
    January 18th, 2007 1:50 pm

    Do people even read the story before commenting!

    [quote comment="28968"] cue is being taken from gora press which is in the business of insinuating muslims are savages.[/quote]

    What GORA PRESS are you talking about? Jang? Nawai Waqt, Dawn, News? The outside press has not even reported on it … yet. I hope they do. What is wrong is wrong. Beating your wife is savagery, Muslim or not.

    [quote comment="28968"]in reporting on such incidences muslim man is always presumed to be guilty and insinuations are then made about behaviour of group based upon the actions of few individuals. [/quote]

    The man (Moin Khan) has HIMSELF accepted that he beat her up. He IS guilty. The only Muslims who look bad (rightly) by insinuation are those who keep quiet or, as some are, defend him for beating his wife. This bit about the gora press is just our own insecurities.

    [quote comment="28968"]i am also pleased to see that karachi police was able to respond promptly to the complaints of moin khan’s wife.[/quote]

    No, they have not. They took him only into protective custody for the much smaller crime of drinking. And then they set him free. The real test will be if exemplary punishment is given for the crime of violence against women and an example is set so that all others who do so are put on notice and abused wives all over know that they have recourse.

    Wife-beating happens in many societies including in gora ones. What is wrong is getting defensive about it as if our ghairat is threatened. That only makes the wife-beaters stronger.

  32. January 18th, 2007 2:04 pm

    [quote post="529"]One of you thinks wife-beating is on par with having an affair[/quote]

    Dr, do you have any proof that I am defending Moin Khan or its just are feeling bored or lonely and willing to change the thread to something else?let me know and I will deal you accordingly.

  33. Eidee Man says:
    January 18th, 2007 2:05 pm

    “Wife-beating is a serious social sin”

    It’s also a religious sin. I find it so pathetic that Pakistanis constantly have useless, b.s. discussions with each other about religion without even consulting the Quran. Maybe some of you should read it for yourself instead of believing the word on the street. Now, it’s not really that big of a wonder how the Hudood stayed in place for such a long time.

    [quote comment="28970"]
    “I mean come on, its 2007, you cannot beat your wife, you cannot beat anyone if you so choose. ”
    [/quote]

    Sharmeen, that’s an extremely weak argument; wife-beating was wrong since the beginning of mankind and will remain so till the end…please consult your religion.

  34. Eidee Man says:
    January 18th, 2007 2:08 pm

    BTW, people who like Wasim Akram (I do) need not be worried about him doing something like this….if you’ve seen his wife, you’ll know what I mean.

  35. January 18th, 2007 2:13 pm

    Dear Akif whenever I read your comments I am reminded a quote and I try my best to follow it.

    Never argue with a fool, he will lower you to his level and then beat you with experience.

  36. Akif Nizam says:
    January 18th, 2007 2:21 pm

    [quote post="529"]moin khan is being declared guilty without a fair trial[/quote]

    Ooooh, we must not judge Moin Khan who admitted to hitting her wife until a judge says so. We must not judge him even though the police reportedly saw him hit his wife. But feel free to judge his wife’s character and women in general.

  37. January 18th, 2007 2:22 pm

    [quote post="529"]Its very convinient for men to use this argument. “Well Islam says we can beat our wives if they dont listen[/quote]

    Igonrance shouldn’t be an excuse for anyone here or anywhere. Nobody asked you or anyone to believe in words of “Kashif” or “Adnan Siddiqi” or ANYOEN ELSE while orignal sources[Quran and hadiths] exist in this world. What Kashif said has given an excuse to liberals and anti-religion freaks to start another campaign against “Violent Islam” because he used the word “beat”. Instead of chanting here, people COULD spend a bit of time reading Quran about Women rights. Keep one thing in mind that majority of western women are more liberal and enlighted than our psuedo desi enlightened ladies and majority of western women accepting Islam today after reading the religion throughly otherwise women like journalist Riddley could reject Islam at first place after studying rather accepting it.

  38. Daktar says:
    January 18th, 2007 2:27 pm

    It is sad to see this again turning about Islam. This is not about religion, this is about male dominant societies and it happens in many societies all over. Secular Pakistanis indulge in these pracctices as much as anyone else. Moin Khan, after all, is not religious. So, making this a ‘blame Islam’ game is wrong. As wrong as the ‘defend Moin’ game.

  39. Akif Nizam says:
    January 18th, 2007 2:29 pm

    [quote post="529"]Dear Akif whenever I read your comments I am reminded a quote and I try my best to follow it.

    Never argue with a fool, he will lower you to his level and then beat you with experience. [/quote]

    Oh, I always wondered why you avoided me like a plague; it makes sense to me now.

    I like that quote too but haven’t used it since I was like eight.

  40. drpak says:
    January 18th, 2007 2:30 pm

    [quote comment="28932"]The funny thing is that as soon as I started reading the news, for some reason I immediately thought that Adnan Siddiqui would chime in and find some way of defending Moin’s actions. Lo and behold, my instincts were right. What a shock to have a person who thinks that NGO are a Western conspiracy, that we don’t need laws protecting women and that purdah is the natural condition of (wo)man, to finally opine that we should not look at wife-beating with contempt because we are all sinners.[/quote]

    LOLzzz… my thoughts exactly…

  41. Maleeha says:
    January 18th, 2007 2:52 pm

    I’m in complete agreement with Daktar. This is not about Islam. Its about patriarchal attitudes that exist among the “religious” and secularist folks alike, attitudes that allow men to think they are entitled to treat wives/women as they please. Such “men” should not even be given the title of being called a man, as true men do not engage in such vile behavior. They are nothing but chicken-sh**, regardless of how many trophies they have amassed.

  42. January 18th, 2007 2:57 pm

    Its very convinient for men to use this argument. “Well Islam says we can beat our wives if they dont listen…â€

  43. falcon says:
    January 18th, 2007 3:09 pm

    Unlike the post about Jansher, this item provides almost no history of Moin Khan’s cricket career. While the post contains plenty of angry rants, it provides no information of value about the overall status of women in Pakistan. There is no mention of how courts usually handle such matters, no mention of previous cases (other than a comment about keeping this a domestic matter).

    Is there no domestic abuse in the West? Is the domestic abuse level in the West not shockingly high? How did Moin Khan come to represent all Pakistani men, why don’t we condemn all former famous people any where in the world?

    Can we not at least attempt to glean something positive: Khan’s wife called the police rather than suffering silently. The police took him to the local thana, rather than taking a bribe, even lodged a case. The media brought it to every one’s attention. Khan, himself, was shamed into showing remorse.

    Every once in a while I see an angry post here … the internet equivalent of picking up a pitch fork. Please don’t turn this into another chowk.com: raging battles between religious and secular fundos.

  44. Akif Nizam says:
    January 18th, 2007 3:09 pm

    [quote post="529"]This is not about religion[/quote]

    …you are correct to some extent. Men don’t beat up their wives because religion ordains them to or even allows them to. Wife beating is a worldwide phenomenon, irrespective of religion or geography.

    Islam is brought into the fold because so many Pakistanis (and muslims in general) cannot think outside of the box of religion. For the most obvious issues, Islam must be consulted. The discussion was about a husband beating his wife and people started giving the Shariats position on the matter and that opened up the Pandora’s box.

  45. Bundagi says:
    January 18th, 2007 3:29 pm

    I think the title should have been “From Wicket keeper to Wicked Keeper”…Nothing justifies beating a woman or a man…Why is it that if a man does something it is justified by saying that the poor guy must have had a lot of pressure…the wife goes through twice the pressure but she does not resort to beating the wife…the solution to problems is not beating each other…sit down like an adult talk it out andif it does not work then separate…if you don’t want other people to butt their nose in then comport yourselves like adults not like barbarians…there should be a dignity in every relationship and every break up…what if his wife had suspected him of having extra marital relationships? would she have beaten him up…moreover, i think we should really keep the religion out of this because we always have the tendency of misinterpreting our religion for men…

  46. Samdani says:
    January 18th, 2007 4:07 pm

    Interesting discussion. On the issue, I totally agree. Wife-bashing cannot be defended on any pretext at all. We must all condemn it everywhere.

    Just did a little experiment. Interesting results.

    - Word ‘Islam’ is not mentioned in the post even once. It is mentioned in the comments till now 10 times.
    - Word ‘religion’ or ‘religious’ is not mentioned in the post even once. It is mentioned in the comments till now 22 times.

    I wonder why?

  47. Rehan says:
    January 18th, 2007 4:19 pm

    There is no excuse for Moin’s behavior. Violent assault on another human, be it one’s own wife, child, or parent, is inhuman, illegal, and yes, un-Islamic. If these allegations against Mr. Khan are true, he must be made into an example.

  48. Eidee Man says:
    January 18th, 2007 4:40 pm

    [quote comment="29010"]
    Islam is brought into the fold because so many Pakistanis (and muslims in general) cannot think outside of the box of religion.[/quote]

    Actually, if they did think inside that “box,” they would no better to support such abuses, etc. It is precisely because they have no clue about their own religion that they engage in and voice support for such activities. And then we have our pseudo-educated elite coming and saying that this is 2007 and that we should not be confined to the “box” of religion.

    The sad truth is that in Pakistan, what we call religion is really mostly culture that has been with us for a long, long time. I mean, some people actually have their own versions of the caste system (obviously derived from Hinduism, etc) and claim to have religious proof to back it up…when they can say things that are that absurd, there is really nothing that you cannot expect from them.

  49. MU says:
    January 18th, 2007 4:44 pm

    [quote comment="29030"]Interesting discussion. On the issue, I totally agree. Wife-bashing cannot be defended on any pretext at all. We must all condemn it everywhere.

    Just did a little experiment. Interesting results.

    - Word ‘Islam’ is not mentioned in the post even once. It is mentioned in the comments till now 10 times.
    - Word ‘religion’ or ‘religious’ is not mentioned in the post even once. It is mentioned in the comments till now 22 times.

    I wonder why?[/quote]

    Easy to twist religion to support one’s own view.

  50. Moiz says:
    January 18th, 2007 4:58 pm

    I think domestic violence is a social issue and has nothing to do with religion.
    It is evident in 10% of US population.
    The point we are missing here is possible culprit that most often leads to this behaviour by men and that is alcohol consumption.
    alcohol knows no religion and acts irrespective of religious allegiance of the drinker. And in more than many cases leads to domestic violence.
    There should be a drive to discourage its consumption and we should quit fighting over something that is in the court now and thus beyond our personal court.

  51. G.A. says:
    January 18th, 2007 6:00 pm

    [quote comment="29030"]Interesting discussion. On the issue, I totally agree. Wife-bashing cannot be defended on any pretext at all. We must all condemn it everywhere.

    Just did a little experiment. Interesting results.

    - Word ‘Islam’ is not mentioned in the post even once. It is mentioned in the comments till now 10 times.
    - Word ‘religion’ or ‘religious’ is not mentioned in the post even once. It is mentioned in the comments till now 22 times.

    I wonder why?[/quote]

    How could we avoid religion in a discussion concerning the ‘Islamic Republic’ of Pakistan?

  52. jinni says:
    January 18th, 2007 6:02 pm

    How can a man beating a wife become a national disgrace? It is purely a matter for the law to take care off.

  53. Akif Nizam says:
    January 18th, 2007 6:06 pm

    My last post on this topic,

    To me, this story is about Moin Khan alone and whether this episode changes how I view him in the future. Here is a guy who regularly drinks, regularly beats his wife and regularly accuses her of cheating on him. In the context of the Pakistani society, that’s makes for a fairly aweful man. So my answer is that it’s going to definitely affect my opinion of him. I’m not going to crucify him and send him to the gallows because I believe in people’s ability to redeem themselves.

  54. January 18th, 2007 10:48 pm

    By way of update, here is the editorial in The News today:

    The arrest of a former captain of the national cricket team in Karachi this week on charges of physically beating his wife has brought into focus the serious and vastly underreported issue of domestic violence in Pakistani society. At the outset, however, one would like to commend the cricketer’s wife for having the courage to call the police and also the latter for making the arrest and not brushing the matter under the carpet as a domestic or private matter as usually happens. In most cases of domestic violence, the victim often endures the physical and mental pain of the abuse for years on end and does not often report it to anyone. The deeply patriarchal nature of Pakistani society is such women are strongly discouraged from speaking up when they have been subjected to abuse of any kind — when they are made to feel as if the fault lies with them and not with the perpetrator of the violence. Hence, often it happens that a victim of domestic violence thinks it simply not worth it because of perhaps the impact it may have on the children or because she may not be financially independent. Also, families of married women and large sections of society as a whole often tend to frown on those women who try to show some independence.

    One good thing arising out of this incident is that it at least shows that some women can and do stand up against their abusers, even if they happen to be their husbands. It also reminds us that domestic violence is not something that only women from low-income and/or underprivileged backgrounds have to deal with and that it happens in situations where the husband and wife are both educated and the family is relatively well off. Domestic violence cases tend to go mostly unreported and are not restricted to husbands but can also involve fathers and brothers or even other male relatives. Also, while the police did arrest the offender in this particular case, the routine is to dismiss the victim’s plaint as a family or internal matter and to tell her to seek reconciliation. This needs to change if we are to root out this evil from our society. Also, families in general need to be more supportive of victims of physical abuse instead of asking them to forget about the abuse, as they normally tend to do.

    The government which has done something positive at least on the issue of discrimination against women by piloting the Women’s Protection Bill through parliament has spoken of further measures to safeguard women’s rights. It has been said, from the prime minister to the president of the ruling PML-Q, that new legislation is on its way and that it will outlaw swara, vani, karo kari and other kinds of misogynist customs and traditions. It is hoped that any such new legislation will also contain provisions that bring domestic violence within the ambit of the law. Civilised nations do not tolerate wife-beating because they realise that being a spouse does not give one unbridled authority to do anything with one’s partner. It would be good if our laws moved in this direction as well.

  55. Ahmed says:
    January 18th, 2007 11:13 pm

    Look on the positive side; the police acted on a case of domestic violence and it was reported in the press. That is progress.

  56. hakim says:
    January 18th, 2007 11:35 pm

    WOW! I am not feeling disbelief (I am aware such incidents happen in Pakistan all the time), but a sense of shock. This man was one of my favourite Pakistani players and every conversation about him from now on will have a mention of this. He has fallen from grace today.

  57. January 19th, 2007 12:02 am

    Ok since trolls are live again in this thread so it’s better to enjoy as a silent spectator rather participating.

    Akif,it is because your learning process was stopped after eight, this is why you didn’t learn many things in life. Were you homeschooled after eight or what?

    [quote post="529"]LOLzzz… my thoughts exactly[/quote]

    Drpak,my friend how are feeling today? I thought you would be producing some documentary proof that i was backing moin khan but i didn’t know that you were in mood of trolling. I’m sorry that i considered you a reasonable person.

    P.S: To religion haters aka Secularists, pls stop polluting this thread by vomiting out haterd against a religion and associate it with any crap happens in our society.

  58. TURAB says:
    January 19th, 2007 1:41 am

    No one can blame the religion, only lack of education, awareness and cultural traditions (taboos) are to be blamed… very dissappointed…

    What is up with the alcohol consumption by people when they know its nothing but trouble!?

  59. Ibrahim says:
    January 19th, 2007 1:54 am

    Salamalikum,

    I read through most of the comments and not until Moiz did someone really mention alcohol consumption. Yes, wife beating happens without alcohol and it happens with it. But, doesn’t it make sense to restrict as many paths to tribulations/fataain as possible. This is what you get in a society where people drink. So, before wife beating, alcohol consumption should be the first issue. And, as most people here ask for, if religion plays little role in a society and not dictate anything to anyone, then you’ll see more and more cases of drunks doing even more damage. I’m writing all this with the assumption that the story reported is true. It’s possible that he wasn’t drunk, didn’t beat his wife, etc, etc. Also, I’m surprised why the post didn’t make an issue of his drinking as well!

    Some people still want to admire Moin Khan for his cricket days even after this incident. To me, a drunk and a wife-abuser is a filthy person.

    [quote post="529"]Any kind of abuse is wrong and i dont buy into this crap about men having the right to beat women because its sanctioned by Islam[/quote]
    Yes, men don’t have the “right” to beat their wives but they are allowed to do so. There is a difference, at least to me, between a “right” and allowing something. What “crap” are you talking about? People here are saying Islam doesn’t allow wife beating at all and it has always been wrong, etc. Well while nobody in my family beat anyone and I don’t do so or plan to do so with my wife, the fact of the matter is that beating is allowed as THE LAST RESORT and here is the verse:

    “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).” {Surah an-Nisaa, Ayah 34, Yusuf Ali translation}

    Now, I’m sure people will put their own unwarranted and “jahili” interpretations to say that this verse doesn’t allow anything!! What people should understand is that beating should be the last resort and should be very light beating and in a manner that doesn’t leave a single bruise and not on the face or head and this is proven in Islam. In fact, Rasoolullah (saw) disallowed beating anyone on face/head, even a child. Rasoolullah (saw) said to a person who slapped a boy on the face: “Do you not know that the face is inviolate?” (Reported in Saheeh Muslim). So, people who slap their young ones on the face shouldn’t do it. Rasoolullah (saw) said in a authentic/saheeh hadeeth narrated in Saheeh Muslim that:
    “Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have rights over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed [i.e., not let them into the house] whom you do not like. But if they do that, you can chastise them but not SEVERELY (my emphasis added). Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner”

    So, yes when most people today beat their wives and use Islam, they are wrong because they are not properly following Shariah. For example, I don’t think Moin Khan must have followed the guidelines outlined in Surah an-Nisaa. You think he feared Allah and then went out and got drunk and beat his wife? Of course, not! On the flip side, people who say no way, wife beating is not allowed, then they are very wrong as well.

  60. January 19th, 2007 2:03 am

    [quote post="529"]Some people still want to admire Moin Khan for his cricket days even after this incident[/quote]

    What’s wrong in that? and what’s the relation of his dynamic professional career with his personal life? Relating professional skills with personal life is as lame as associating moin’s invidual act with a religion.

  61. Ibrahim says:
    January 19th, 2007 2:57 am

    Salamalikum,

    [quote post="529"]What’s wrong in that? and what’s the relation of his dynamic professional career with his personal life?[/quote]
    True, his professional career is not related to his personal life. But, the point here is admiring someone. Yes, he was a good bastman-wicket keeper, and I’ll still say that, but I don’t admire him. It could be how you and I define admiration. To me, admiring someone is liking that person, and I don’t like him after this incident, no matter how great a player he was and how he helped Pakistan win in ’92.
    [quote post="529"]Relating professional skills with personal life is as lame as associating moin’s invidual act with a religion[/quote]
    I don’t think it’s lame to associate Moin’s act with his religion, since he’s a Muslim and the religion we’re talking about is Islam, and his actions took place in a Muslim society. Since his story has been made public, I think it is absolutely correct to discuss how wrong his actions are and convey to people how they aren’t becoming of a Muslim—that’s BEATING his wife while DRUNK.

  62. Prophecy says:
    January 19th, 2007 3:32 am

    MQ – I know Qalandars dont take in Mureeds but please accept me as one.

    its really sad that humans insult/hurt/kill other humans on name of god or religion – i find it really funny that you know something is wrong but you still defend it because somehow you are convinced god wanted this…beat your wife…Koran allows that…and shame on defenders…all they can say is that its wrong interpretation…oh come on, it is clear and straight, can’t you say it is wrong…but what else we can expect when husband/wife relationship is treated as owner/cow, i am still not sure if some one actually wrote those lines…

    and Adil i hope you understand the difference between ‘Mulzim’ and ‘Mujrim’, its really bad jurnalism

  63. Omar R. Quraishi says:
    January 19th, 2007 4:24 am

    Adnan — sorry but the ONLY troll here is you — and you know that –

  64. Omar R. Quraishi says:
    January 19th, 2007 4:27 am

    sharmeen — its actually a public matter because moin khan is very much a public figure

    adil — good to see you take note of our editorial on this issue

  65. January 19th, 2007 4:30 am

    bro Ibrahim , I was also appreciating his cricket skills only nothing else:-)

    Dear Omar, thankyou. I know that your thinking capability doesn’t allow you to go beyond this sentence ;)

  66. shobz says:
    January 19th, 2007 5:01 am

    It’s really sad when people resort to such means. Wife beating is not something a man should be doing. I guess only a weak man would resort to something like that. Shame on you Moin.

  67. G.A. says:
    January 19th, 2007 5:15 am

    “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).â€

  68. JayJay says:
    January 19th, 2007 8:06 am
  69. Ibrahim says:
    January 19th, 2007 8:28 am

    Salamalikum,

    [quote post="529"]So if I decide to marry Joanie Laurer aka Chyna from WWF in which case Allah has definitely given her more strength than me and she can surely support me too because she is a lot richer than me, Does that give her the right to ultimately beat me as a “last resortâ€

  70. Daktar says:
    January 19th, 2007 9:49 am

    [quote comment="29273"]Wife-Beating Mullah

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiYT1ywtXxA/quote

    Absolutely horrified to see this. Although this clip is NOT from Pakistan (it is from Afghanistan) we must all work to make sure this type of action never becomes Pakistan.

  71. Maleeha says:
    January 19th, 2007 11:17 am

    Ibrahim, as a married Muslim woman, I am speechless at your comments. You say you respect the women in your life, and I have no reason to believe otherwise since I do not know you. Yet, you believe in an Islam that believes women are inherently weaker, stupider, not fit for leadership. This contradiction dumbfounds me, though I suspect its very very common among Musim men.

    Did you know that the word “daraba” in that verse is also interpreted to mean “separate” rather than “beat”? Allah’s word is perfect, but man’s interpretation is not.

  72. Akif Nizam says:
    January 19th, 2007 12:23 pm

    [quote post="529"]Akif,it is because your learning process was stopped after eight, this is why you didn’t learn many things in life. Were you homeschooled after eight or what?[/quote]

    Adnan, you hurt my feelings ! You are mean !

    Anyway, on second thought, perhaps Moin was following the very path prescribed in the verses that have bee quoted by others. He suspected his wife of cheating, he obviously admonished her verbally before, they were not getting along so it’s possible they were not sharing beds; well then, what’s really left for a God-fearing man to do who has exhausted all other means of bringing his wife back to obedience…..but to beat her back to her senses. That was the natural next step using the process of elimination.

    Also, for people who think that the system worked in this situation, my opinion is this had everything to do with the fact that the couple lived in “Defence Housing Authority.”
    If Moin lived in another area, albiet as well off as DHA, the police would not respond that swiftly.

  73. Baber says:
    January 19th, 2007 1:01 pm

    Rightaous Ibhrahim I am shocked at your comparisions, there are so many women who you left out, may be just your ignorance. Margaret Thatcher(leader), Indra K. Nooyi(ceo), Condi(politician)just to name a few there are many painters,poets, socialist and ofcourse writers.

    Behind and before every successfull man there is a women, and if the women is week then there is no sucessfull man i guess.

    Women are not week and when you are defending GODS logic then why not ask you since we don’t know that we are ever gonna meet GOD (suppose i am atheist) then?

    Why no rabbi,pope…we are not comparing islam with other religions or US. The point is why your think women weeker then men? Why is the mantle of leadership given to men? And ofcourse Benazir(Pinky) was not less competent then Nawaz(sher).

    Woman represents different qualities of a being-
    she is beautiful,is vulnerable,is emotional,is sensitive, is bold, is selfless, is tender and loving,is wild, is witty and is everything.

    Men???

    Oh boy! I sound like a libber. ;)

  74. Eidee Man says:
    January 19th, 2007 1:09 pm

    “Yet, you believe in an Islam that believes women are inherently weaker, stupider, not fit for leadership. This contradiction dumbfounds me, though I suspect its very very common among Musim men.”

    Men who happen to be Muslim rather than Muslim men is a better way of putting it. Collective guilt is a bad thing…please dont include us all in that group.

  75. G.A. says:
    January 19th, 2007 2:00 pm

    Ibrahim, I don’t know if I should laugh or cry at your comments. I guess first I should stop being so “audaciousâ€

  76. drpak says:
    January 19th, 2007 2:11 pm

    [quote comment="29180"][quote post="529"]Some people still want to admire Moin Khan for his cricket days even after this incident[/quote]

    What’s wrong in that? and what’s the relation of his dynamic professional career with his personal life? Relating professional skills with personal life is as lame as associating moin’s invidual act with a religion.[/quote]

    Is it his personal life? What if he had murdered his wife? Would that still be counted as something happening in his personal life? Is it the degree of the harm that he inflicts on his wife that defines whether it is personal or not? Assault on another human being is a crime, it’s not just a ‘personal’ issue – it become a matter for the courts and thence a public affair.

  77. Nazneen Jalal says:
    January 19th, 2007 2:44 pm

    Wife beating is just one of many ways in which men everywhere in world abuse and sexually exploit women.

  78. Prophecy says:
    January 19th, 2007 3:10 pm

    G.A, i think what brother Ibrahim was trying to say is that since islam is so good (best of religions, hadayat for all man kind , for all ages) and from devine source hence there is no way you can question any part of it – you have to take whole package and live with it. No one is forcing you – oh i am sorry actually muslims cannot leave islam in pursuit of happiness…they gonna kill you…anyways, here is another greatness of islam – nonmuslim male pakistanies are not priviliged to beat their wives but muslim males are … they can always go to Shariyat Court and prove their act of wife-beating as an Sharii Faail.

    here is an idea for Isshatay islam – in all those socities where males do not have devine right to beat their wives, we can bring them in halqay-i-islam to enjoy this benefit – beat your wife without fear of any consequencies and you may also qualify for some added Sowab for eliminting Fahashi from the society and taking care of your sheeps oh sorry cows in this case.

  79. Maleeha says:
    January 19th, 2007 3:17 pm

    Eidee Man,

    My apologies. Yes, men who happen to be Muslim rather than Muslim men is a better way to put it. I am surrounded by Muslim men who do not share Ibrahim’s views, alhumdullilah, so I know all Muslim men dont all hold these beliefs. Language is a slippery thing, and I must be more careful next time.

  80. Ibrahim says:
    January 19th, 2007 4:05 pm

    Salamalikum,

    Let’s try this again. I ran into some errors.

    [quote post="529"]Yet, you believe in an Islam that believes women are inherently weaker, stupider, not fit for leadership.[/quote]
    It’s not my opinion. This is Islam and if you want I can provide you with authentic ahadeeth as well. And, I’m not ashamed of this deen. I didn’t say women are “stupider” compared to men. It’s best if you not put words in my mouth.
    [quote post="529"]Did you know that the word “darabaâ€

  81. Ibrahim says:
    January 19th, 2007 4:52 pm

    Salamalikum,

    Let’s try this again. I ran into some errors.

    [quote post="529"]Yet, you believe in an Islam that believes women are inherently weaker, stupider, not fit for leadership.[/quote]
    It’s not my opinion. This is Islam and if you want I can provide you with authentic ahadeeth as well. And, I’m not ashamed of this deen. I didn’t say women are “stupider” compared to men. It’s best if you not put words in my mouth.
    [quote post="529"]Did you know that the word “darabaâ€

  82. Baber says:
    January 19th, 2007 5:51 pm

    I think i get Ibhrahims point all he is saying is that Allah is saying All women are weak. Weak mentality, physically and spiritually? Man and women are created differently and GOD has made her weaker then men so hence if she cheats you can whip her. right?

  83. Ibrahim says:
    January 19th, 2007 6:18 pm

    Salamalikum,
    [quote post="529"]I think i get Ibhrahims point all he is saying is that Allah is saying All women are weak. Weak mentality, physically and spiritually? Man and women are created differently and GOD has made her weaker then men so hence if she cheats you can whip her. [/quote]
    How sad that people keep implying something I didn’t mention. Didn’t I say at the outset there are exceptions? Where did I mention their spirituality? Again, grow up and don’t put words in my mouth. “if she cheats you can whip her”: If wife or husband cheats/commit zina, the hadd punishment is stated in Quran.
    [quote post="529"]right?[/quote]
    No, wrong. Very wrong!! May be if you could put your bias and sarcasm aside for a minute, then you might be able to discuss more intelligently.

  84. Maleeha says:
    January 19th, 2007 6:29 pm

    Ibrahim, what you’ve stated in your comments are your “views,” influenced by whatever you’ve read or heard from others in your life. Therefore, by ignoring them or disagreeing with them, I do not become a lesser Muslim. And yes, I vehemently disagree with you and quite frankly am glad I do not know someone with such views personally.

    Please do not think that you know what Islam is, what it says, especially about a controversial topic such as this verse which has generated scholarship upon scholarship from people more learned than you. It is quite presumptuous of you to claim your view is the only correct view of Islam.

    Anyway, I wish you peace and choose not to further argue. Salam.

  85. Baber says:
    January 19th, 2007 6:42 pm

    [quote comment="29478"]
    How sad that people keep implying something I didn’t mention. Didn’t I say at the outset there are exceptions? Where did I mention their spirituality? Again, grow up and don’t put words in my mouth. “if she cheats you can whip her”: If wife or husband cheats/commit zina, the hadd punishment is stated in Quran.
    [quote post="529"]right?[/quote]
    No, wrong. Very wrong!! May be if you could put your bias and sarcasm aside for a minute, then you might be able to discuss more intelligently.[/quote]
    Well then under what circumstances is she weak and when can we (Men) beat her. I know you mean we man have the permission to do that. I am not biased or sarcastic, I’m just trying to get what you mean. when you say she is week , please enlighten me. I will appreciate it.

  86. Ibrahim says:
    January 19th, 2007 7:13 pm

    Salamalikum,
    [quote post="529"]Please do not think that you know what Islam is, what it says, especially about a controversial topic such as this verse which has generated scholarship upon scholarship from people more learned than you. It is quite presumptuous of you to claim your view is the only correct view of Islam.[/quote]
    Of course, Allah have mercy on me, I don’t believe I am superior than others or others ar lesser Muslims. It is sad that you think as such. Anyway, I might not know all the rules in Islam but everyone knows the basic principle and that’s complete submission to Quran and Sunnah. And, the reason I’m saying it’s not my view is that in my first comment I quoted the verse and a couple of ahadeeth, and that doesn’t make it “my view”. The evidence is clear. You’re saying scholarship upon scholarship has been produced on this issue. Then, give me a differing traditional view. Today’s modernist interpretation of Quran is not scholarship. Again, it’s not my view–pick up any traditional scholarly work, a tafseer of Quran or otherwise and you’ll see this.
    [quote post="529"]Well then under what circumstances is she weak and when can we (Men) beat her. I know you mean we man have the permission to do that. I am not biased or sarcastic, I’m just trying to get what you mean. when you say she is week , please enlighten me. I will appreciate it. [/quote]
    Aren’t women generally weaker than men physically? East or West, what’s more common: that people think men are more emotional or women? It’s women. I mean I’m sure in Hollywood movies as well men are the big, strong, shinning heroes saving their women in distress. So, how did that concept develop? Only because it is generally seen that women are physically and emotionally weak and nazuk. Now, you get it when I say weak, what I mean? Read the verse and pick up some tafseer to understand the permission.

    I can’t say more on this. I said all I could. If I’m wrong, then Allah have mercy on me and forgive me and give hidayat to me, and same for others. But, don’t forget the underlying point though: as a Muslim we should completely follow Quran and Sunnah without picking and choosing, which obviously includes believing in what is written in Quran. But, what most of us do? We take what we like and make excuses for things we don’t such as using illogical logic, unwarranted interpretations, using the concept of “it’s your view”, etc. Allah knows best.

  87. Baber says:
    January 19th, 2007 7:29 pm

    Thank you Ibrahim, you sound like a good man.

    Women being weak and portrayed weak are two different things. I can argue that women are not weak. I am opposed to the view of presenting women as weak, because thats like encouraging men to prey on them. Just tell me one thing that man can do and women can’t.

    Well catwomen kicks ass.

  88. Prophecy says:
    January 19th, 2007 7:49 pm

    :-) :-) :-)

    i thought daily show is most funny show but i am glad to find this blog site

  89. Ibrahim says:
    January 19th, 2007 8:10 pm

    Salamalikum,

    Baber, the point wasn’t if women should be presented as weak or not. The point was why is this done? Why didn’t it happen that men are usually portrayed as weak? Because people saw and learned from their experiences and that’s what they presented. And, it goes back to my basic point that Allah made a distinction between man and women, both physically and emotionally. On the flip side, why aren’t men presented as beauty and women are usually equated with beauty? The reason is that in this case Allah provided women with more beauty than men in general.[quote post="529"]Just tell me one thing that man can do and women can’t.[/quote]
    It’s not about what they can do or not do; it’s about how well one can do things. I mean, as just one more example, take any army in the world and you will see that, I would guess, over 90% or even close to 100% frontline soldiers are all men–even in the West. Why? It’s simple, generally men will be able to do a better job. That’s why I had said earlier that there are billions of such example. You can’t deny what Allah has put in human fitraat/nature. It’s what it’s![quote post="529"]you sound like a good man.[/quote]
    I appreciate your gesture but please don’t bestow any such words on me here because it’s neither the place nor I am waiting for someone’s approval here.

  90. Moiz says:
    January 19th, 2007 8:13 pm

    Since this thread is heating up i would like to say again…ALCOHOL people ALCOHOL!!!!
    LOL!
    No seriously you guys need to chill. stop sharpening your teeth on innocent people.(Moin may not be the one but others participating in this thread are innocent :)).
    Also why blame Allah for your ignorance. Allah dedicated a full surah of His book to women. An-nisa–>women, Women–>An nisa….anyone!!! (actually two include sura mariam as well)
    And before you start getting all jumpy i would make a sincere suggestion that attempt to read the whole surah in full context in the Quran.
    i quote just one verse,

    O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.

    And isnt this all personal choice to sterotype others the way one feels. who is anyone to tell anyone else to think differently when it comes to stereotyping. I can choose to like Moin for his cricket and at the same time dislike him for his personal indecency. Why would anyone want to enforce his/her own view on me?
    On the same pattern what if he is punished by law and serves his term and comes out of the jail would you still hate him for somethig for which he has been punished. or suddenly in some way start liking him again.
    What is the purpose of punishment if not to absolve the perperator of his ‘sin’ and then make him good to go the rest of his life. Until the day he commits another act worth criticising.
    When do we say justice has been served? when is it the end of misery for a criminal? Is it all good when he has been punished or is it all good when ‘we’ forgive him in our mind? or is it that ‘we’ never let go even tough we believe that justice has been done?

  91. Baber says:
    January 20th, 2007 12:33 am

    [quote comment="29524"]
    Baber, the point wasn’t if women should be presented as weak or not. The point was why is this done? Why didn’t it happen that men are usually portrayed as weak? Because people saw and learned from their experiences and that’s what they presented. And, it goes back to my basic point that Allah made a distinction between man and women, both physically and emotionally. On the flip side, why aren’t men presented as beauty and women are usually equated with beauty? The reason is that in this case Allah provided women with more beauty than men in general.[/quote]

    When you say “people saw and learned from their experiences and that’s what they presented” These people are men. Man has always tried to be superior in society. And beauty is how you look at it, Quran says Prophet Yusuf was a very beautiful man. To men generally women are beautiful and to women men are beautiful. I still don’t get it how women is weaker then men physically and mentality?
    [quote comment="29524"]
    It’s not about what they can do or not do; it’s about how well one can do things. I mean, as just one more example, take any army in the world and you will see that, I would guess, over 90% or even close to 100% frontline soldiers are all men–even in the West. Why? It’s simple, generally men will be able to do a better job. That’s why I had said earlier that there are billions of such example. You can’t deny what Allah has put in human fitraat/nature. It’s what it’s![/quote]
    Let me tell you why there are no women or few women in army because women are told to be at home and look after the kids. Its because women are brought up differently then men. Its not men are better at doing things, its how much effort one puts into it. I don’t think women are better cooks then men although they always in kitchen. Girls in pakistan excel in exams, I can say generally female score higher then men in Board exams and they are more intelligent then men in Pakistan. Muslim countries like Indonesia and Bangladesh had women prime ministers/presidents. Indonesia is the most densely populated Muslim country. There are women in air force in west, fighter pilots. In ancient east (china, Japan) women were as good fighters as men. I’m not a feminist but sorry I don’t buy it.

    [quote comment="29524"]I appreciate your gesture but please don’t bestow any such words on me here because it’s neither the place nor I am waiting for someone’s approval here.[/quote]
    I said you sound like a good man based on your comments because you were not as bitter as other members.

  92. January 20th, 2007 5:08 am

    [quote post="529"]Is it his personal life? What if he had murdered his wife?
    [/quote]

    Now seriously you are talking nonsense. Did HE murder his wife?

    Are you saying that me or anyone else have right to poke in your domestic matters? Will you allow others to pass remarks about your family matters? Yes please don’t give any lame statment that “I am the best” because deals with issues whether they are lighter or severe.

    [quote post="529"] it’s not just a ‘personal’ issue – it become a matter for the courts and thence a public affair[/quote]

    Then let the law agencies and court deal this issue? who are you that you are desprate to poke your nose in this matter? are you saying that you can deal this matter better than laws agencies and courts.

    [quote post="529"] thence a public affair[/quote]

    Who said that every matter discusses in court becomes a public properly? If you divorce your wife and case is filed in court,does that mean that every Pakistani has right to pass his remarks and dictate to court? Talk some sense kid. If you have nothing to say then it doesn’t mean you start polluting the thread by talking lame things.

  93. Akif Nizam says:
    January 20th, 2007 7:47 am

    All one needs to do is to search for “wife beating” on You Tube and they will find numerous rulings by ulemas from a myriad of countries about the issue. It’s quite disturbing really.

  94. Akif Nizam says:
    January 20th, 2007 7:50 am

    [quote post="529"]All one needs to do is to search for “wife beatingâ€

  95. Omar R. Quraishi says:
    January 20th, 2007 8:36 am

    Adnan, its a public issue and was reported by newpspapers because of two main things. 1. Moin Khan is public figure And 2. It’s rare for the police to make arrests on charges of domestic violence.

    And you think others have no brains — sheesh

  96. maryam says:
    January 20th, 2007 9:42 am

    [quote comment="28808"]Well actually there are more serious things in life than highlighting a man-beating-wife scenario. While I totally agree that a man shouldn’t beat or abuse his wife unless she has gone against the rules of shariah (and that too after warnings), I do not think people can learn anything from publishing a domestic quarrel. Please do not make ATP a tabloid.

    Also, why not look at other side of the story. What is Moin’s statement on this?[/quote]

    err… it doesnt actually matter what his statement is. he beat his wife after a drinking episode. which is worse, poisoning your own soul or poisoning some one else’s?

    both acts are heinous under islam…so how is this not a big deal? do u not think that family is the unit that creates community? what kind of a family unit is Mr Khan developing?

  97. Baber says:
    January 20th, 2007 10:51 am

    Moin is not just a good cricketer, but his hard work and making it into the team and giving his best for the team has made him a role model. People watch him specially teenagers, he must know that and anything he does is exposed to media because he enjoys a celebrity status.
    He should have watched for his actions.

  98. Ghalib says:
    January 20th, 2007 9:02 pm

    total useless topic to talk on!its simple beating your wife or any woman is wrong period!him being a celebrity and his attitude that is shared my billions all across the world not just Pakistan!even the most cicilised countries like USA Uk have celebs actin weird! reason its a good story to talk aboutan to show!OJ Simpson Micheal jackson Nelly,Naomi Campbell hittin her maid,Clinton/Monica fiasco!But they arent subject to the clause of christianity that dun allow a woman to even get a divorce! Its a fashion now adays to talk abt islam and sharia just like ” MU ” talkin can a wife hit a husband!
    Pakistan is a namely islamic country where people practise the religion admixed with culture and tradition and have killed the true nature of religion! U can neva be called an anti-islamic as this term isnt coined yet but talk abt jews ull be anti-semetic an even Mel Gibson have to issue an apology!
    Just dun act retards this so called terrorism and media hype of islam labelling the religion ,women matters etc! where was the world in cold war eras?where were women rights then!its all to divide an rule policy!
    MOIN KHAN is a just a player an the sensational remarks by Adil made me ponder! what have they to do with mainstream pakistanis?talking about an issue using his name just creates ddivision an no consolation yet its a great journalism weapon how to exploit on an issue using any one as a scapegoat!Moin was wrong no one can defend him!but so are many!its his personal life i agree with it and media just need a news like mukhtaran an shazia as well but has any one learnt y he did it?? the same question implies y muslims are labelled terrorist? y u get angry? get the question first then try to locate or manufacture the answer!if u gonna do the opposite like its happening everywhere it will become a good news no doubt but not the true tale!
    Lifes very simple laws of nature are yet the same!wether its 2007 or it was 1007 of 107 humans err! punish them dun make em something that ppl can side!just like americans got divided over OJ Simpsons black lineage an the famous qoute that if ur black and have killed some one goto LA fer a trial u cant loose!

    the news is bad!but not to the extent that it shud have been a discussion topic!

  99. January 20th, 2007 9:38 pm

    [quote post="529"]And you think others have no brains â€

  100. January 20th, 2007 9:42 pm

    Ibrahim follow the saying which I mentioned in one of my above post to Akif. You don’t have to reply everyone here, wait till these kids get tired and sleep in the cradles otherwise your constant attention will keep them awake whole night and they won’t stop making noise. The article you mentioned in your last post is given below.

    http://www.paktribune.com/pforums/posts.php?t=2855&start=1

    As I said, our psuedo desi liberal and enlightened ladies and gentlemen are far far away from real enlightened and educated class of west who do make efforts to study new things.

    The condition of our _educated_ liberals who go abroad is not different than an innocent villager who gets impressed after seeing “batian”[lights] of big cities and feels proud to tell his pals back in town without making any efforts to know the ground realities of a big city. The only difference is that the villager wears a dhoti while these “western khurda” people wear Jeans/shorts and t-shirts :D

  101. MQ says:
    January 21st, 2007 2:43 am

    A simple case of assault (assault and battery in the US legal terminology), has been turned by the ATP in-house mullahs into a battle between ‘Haq’ and ‘Baatil’ or Islam and ‘kufr’.

    Reading the long sermons and the taunts by these mullahs all I can say is repeat what Allama Iqbal said about them:

    Teri namaaz maiN baaqi jalaal hai na jamaal
    Teri azaaN maiN naheeN hai meri sahar ka payaam

    In your religiosity and prayers there is neither dignity nor beauty
    In your call for prayer I do not see the signs of dawn

  102. Daktar says:
    January 21st, 2007 3:06 am

    [quote comment="29872"]I repeat that professional skills of some invidual has NO relation with his nature,characterstics etc. Why is it so hard to understand this?[/quote]

    I do not think anyone has suggested that he is any less of a cricketer because of this. But I personally do think he is less of a person for doing this. To me at least who one is as a person is far more important than who one is as a professional.

  103. PatExpat says:
    January 21st, 2007 5:31 am

    Nobody considered Bill Clinton as less of a President because he had sex with Monica Lewinsky. Most of the people have even forgotten it except for the Daily Show guys.

    Lets keep professional and personal conduct seperate in Moin’s case as we do in other cases. He was a good cricketer and thats a fact.

    The issue has nothing to do with Islam. He was drunk and beat his wife which was wrong. He has been punished for his crime and we should leave him alone. Since we are talking Shariat which we do a lot nowadays with every pseudo-mulla tom, pseudo-intellectual dick and pseudo-secular harry jumping in, how about some lashes for drinking?

  104. Ibrahim says:
    January 21st, 2007 5:35 am

    Salamalikum,
    [quote post="529"]A simple case of assault (assault and battery in the US legal terminology), has been turned by the ATP in-house mullahs into a battle between ‘Haq’ and ‘Baatil’ or Islam and ‘kufr’.[/quote]
    Thank you first for updating us on US legal terms when the matter concerns Pakistan. Secondly, who talked about kufr? Again, don’t put words in people’s mouths, ok? If someone reads your comment without reading above comments, he/she might think that people are calling each other kafir or talking about kufr and imaan on this post. And, how come a Muslim drinking alcohol, and then beating up his wife not a matter of haq or baatil?

    [quote post="529"]Teri namaaz maiN baaqi jalaal hai na jamaal
    Teri azaaN maiN naheeN hai meri sahar ka payaam
    In your religiosity and prayers there is neither dignity nor beauty
    In your call for prayer I do not see the signs of dawn[/quote]
    So, a person who thinks this is not a case that involves Islam (when it clearly does) want to judge a Muslim’s deed as pious enough or not!! I’m not saying I’ve have jalaal or jamaal in my namaaz. But, could it not be, MQ, that it’s you who might not see jalaal or jamaal in someone’s deeds even though that preson might have it?

  105. January 21st, 2007 6:21 am

    [quote post="529"]if someone reads your comment without reading above comments[/quote]

    No, those who have been visiting this blog for long time or people who go thru entire thread rather jumping in the middle would not waste a minute to understand the of this guy.

    As I requested you to ignore these kids and let them play in cradles. His mighty ignorance didn’t make him to go thru entire thread otherwise he would have read himself that people who tried to make this thread religious were his own brothers like Akif,Jayjay and few others. Since MQ is a born lover of Iqbal. MQ’s religious knowledge was explained by Iqbal pretty well.


    Khud badalte naheen Quran ko badal dete hain
    huwey kis darja faqeehane haram be taufiq

    So deal such particular cabal accordingly.

  106. MQ says:
    January 21st, 2007 8:57 am

    Siddiqi Sahib,

    If you read the couplet quoted by you carefully it is addressed to faqeehaan-e-haram, which in plain language are called mullahs.

  107. January 21st, 2007 11:08 am

    mq mian, if you also read the shairs you often refer for your own sake then you would also find them irrelevent. When you can play with Iqbal then why not me? and what’s wrong in that “Khud badalte naheen Quran ko badal dete hain”. Was/is not done by the cult who rejects hadiths,namaz etc by misinterpretating[changing]quranic means for personal intrests?;)

    [quote post="529"]mullahs[/quote]

    stereotyping, old technique but unfortunately you guys even borrowed this from west. Anyway from the definition of yours,mullahs are those who just force to inject their own intrests by using religion. If yes then you and people of your cult are not lesser mullahs because they also keep imposing their views on others. As I already say that lefts are not less pathetic than rights and the best solution to getrid both left liberals extreemist and rights religious zealots to lock all of them in a big cage, they will keep fighting and in the end would get a ticket of next world. Simple solution without using any external weapons. ;). This is the only way to get Pakistan[land of Pure].

  108. Akif Nizam says:
    January 21st, 2007 11:11 am

    [quote post="529"]The condition of our _educated_ liberals who go abroad is not different than an innocent villager who gets impressed after seeing “batianâ€

  109. Baber says:
    January 21st, 2007 12:15 pm

    Some people argue to learn while others argue to win. People are entitled to their opinion but just throwing punchlines makes discussion wretched. Be it liberal ,extremist or not very religious, everybody has a view and is welcomed to raise it.Its simple, either you agree or you don’t, you can reply if you want or just like switching channels, you can click and move on.

    This is for the all knowings(Presumptuous) or at least they think they are all knowing.

    Nal bulbul keh sunon aur hama tan gosh rahaon?
    Hamnawa main bhi koi gul hoon, keh khamosh rahoon?
    (Iqbal)

    Meray Allah tujhe naik hedayat deh
    Aql deh, sharam deh, tori see sharafat deh
    (Qamar Yousuf Zai)

  110. Omar R. Quraishi says:
    January 21st, 2007 1:07 pm

    btw adil after adnan siddiqi’s last post I really have to ask you that how do you tolerate this troll in the name of free speech — which btw (since youre a prof based in the US and hence would know) does have some limits and is not unbridled

    adnan beta as usual you make no sense in your posts and oh by the way, when you speak of rightwing zealots its ironic that you dont know that you fall into that category as well

    ORQ

  111. Omar R. Quraishi says:
    January 21st, 2007 1:08 pm

    adnan you moron who is saying that moin is a bad cricketer because of this — we are saying that it merits coverage in a newspaper because he is a public figure — even a moron would get that actually

  112. Ibrahim says:
    January 21st, 2007 4:49 pm

    Salamalikum,

    [quote post="529"]btw adil after adnan siddiqi’s last post I really have to ask you that how do you tolerate this troll in the name of free speech â€

  113. Prophecy says:
    January 21st, 2007 6:56 pm

    hahaha, come on guys – one can easily observer that you two are admiring each other and now protecting…isn’t this childish, cann’t you guys takecare of yourself without brotherly support? Ibrahim – why you have trouble with Omar’s post and not with Adnan’s post when he was calling poepl kids and paindoo (and that shows how respectful this person is to people who are actually paindoo)? Are you returning the favorable comments of Adnan on this and other posts?

  114. January 22nd, 2007 4:26 am

    [quote post="529"]Adnan’s post when he was calling poepl kids and paindoo [/quote]

    *grin*
    prophecy, where did I use the term “Paindu”?are you feeling OK? can you exactly point out tht particular LINE? what’s wrong saying kids? where do you get hibernated when MQ make posts here. Chill man and growup!

    [quote post="529"]when you speak of rightwing zealots its ironic that you dont know that you fall into that category as well[/quote]

    LOL. After Mufti MQ of ATP,Mufti Omar is giving a fatwa about me. Thanks ;)

    Do remember that this is not your newspaper. Have fun and there is no need to cry here.

    [quote post="529"]two are admiring each other and now protecting[/quote]

    What’s wrong when you yourseld doing the same by protecting Omar? hawa lagao apna dimagh ko bhai!

  115. January 22nd, 2007 4:33 am

    [quote post="529"] a 10 year old had written them[/quote]

    No idea but he’s associated with an English newspaper and his attitude shows that most of the time he would be used to taking pills after reciving letters by people who disagree with him :-)

  116. MQ says:
    January 22nd, 2007 5:41 am

    Since the word “troll” has been mentioned on this thread several times, I did a quick Google search on it and found the following explanation and remedy, and I quote:

    [quote]In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.

    Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore him or her, because responding encourages a true troll to continue disruptive posts â€

  117. January 22nd, 2007 10:11 am

    Can we, once again, please, ask people to stick to the topic and refrain from what is now really childish bickering. We have tried to stay away from active moderation in the hope that people will learn to curb their ghussa and these petty personal comments. The last many comments have now had nothing to do with the topic and while the silliness may be amusing to some it adds nothing to the conversation and distracts more serious readers. [And, please, don't tell us that someone else 'started' it... that is something 7 year olds say, and it really does not work even then]. We apologize for the harshness of this message. If you detect frustaration here, it is because we are frustrated by this constant drain on our energies and everyone else’s time. If you have something to say on the topic itself, please do so. If not, please refrain from abusing others for the sake of it. Believe us, it does not make anyone look good.

  118. Arifa says:
    January 25th, 2007 11:43 am

    I am glad you are highlighting this issue. It is sad that the discussion went towards religion. This is a universal problem and has to do with patriarchy. Intoxication does make things worse. But a lot of this also happens within alcohol. Every society, including ours, shoudl speak out against wife beating. The only good thing that such incidents and talking about them does is that it gives more strength to other victims who woudl otherwise have been quiet. Now they know they have someone to go to or complain to.

  119. ahmed says:
    January 22nd, 2007 1:14 pm

    Dear ATP Administrator:
    While wholeheartedly agreeing with you, here is a shair, in a lighter vein, which may possibly help ease tension:

    Chiranain lag moonh daitay daitay galian sahib
    Jabaan bigri toh bigri thi khabar leejiyay d’han bigra

  120. syed says:
    February 21st, 2007 9:05 pm

    moin khan is a national hero,and it will remain so,i think its silly to make this into a huge matter,anyone can have a bad day,this is a domestic issue ,moin didnt molest his wife,why do u guys just keep making up issues,where none exist,moin khan was instrumental in pakistans 92 victory,and again he took pakistan into the finals of the 1999 world cup,we are becoming a nation of morons,we just dump our heroes for nothing,shame on all of you

  121. laila says:
    March 2nd, 2007 10:53 pm

    i totallly agree with some people on this thread!… Maybe Moin khan’s wife doesn’t know how to handle a situation!..Maybe she got in huge argument over something with him… she might have given him threats of ruining his image in the public!..maybe…who knows… but the main thing is that his wife shouldn’t have drag the family matter into public. I mean thats just an immature way of solving problems. It is like spitting on each other. It is obvious that she must have done something that Khan made the move!..I mean lets not blame all it on Moin Khan..his wife holds a character too!

  122. TURAB says:
    March 8th, 2007 3:43 pm

    the guy was drunk!!!
    laila and others i m very dissaoppointed…..
    moin’s wife did the right thing… now that i see him on geo i wann call him up and give him an earful

  123. Ayesha Khan says:
    March 16th, 2007 1:34 pm

    What ‘one side of the story’ do you keep talking about. The guy told his story to the police. He was drunk and he beat his wife. Does not matter at all what was “transpiring” between husband and wife. No matter what it was it is WRONG to beat one’s wife. That makes him a wife-beater and a discpicible person. EVERYONE knows what really happened. He beat his wife. What else is there to know.

  124. caroline says:
    March 16th, 2007 10:40 am

    Only one side of the story is heard here. I would like to hear Moins side of the story before passing any judgement. So many things transpire between husband and wife, who knows what really happened?

  125. Caroline says:
    March 20th, 2007 5:52 pm

    I don’t ” keep talking” about, I just mentioned. Besides, I know cases where the wife kept pestering and kept pushing the husband towards the edge and when she finally succeded in breaking him down, put on a face of a helpless victim.
    Life is not as simple as you would like to believe.

  126. Samdani says:
    March 20th, 2007 6:08 pm

    So, you are saying that if the wife keeps “pestering” her husband then it is OK to start beating here up?

  127. Jabir Khan says:
    March 20th, 2007 7:00 pm

    In Europe, a women is beaten to death by her husband every single day.

    Islam’s fault isn’t it?

  128. caroline says:
    March 21st, 2007 6:38 am

    Samdani, no, that is not what I m saying.

  129. Humayun, Birmingham AL says:
    April 21st, 2007 8:34 am

    [quote comment="28808"]Well actually there are more serious things in life than highlighting a man-beating-wife scenario. While I totally agree that a man shouldn’t beat or abuse his wife unless she has gone against the rules of shariah (and that too after warnings), I do not think people can learn anything from publishing a domestic quarrel. Please do not make ATP a tabloid.

    Also, why not look at other side of the story. What is Moin’s statement on this?[/quote]

    You should not beat anyone just because they don’t agree with you. Sharia law is Flawed and there are portions of it that are unislamic. If you beat your wife than you are not Muslim. You are not even a man.

    YOu cannot beat anyone and the Sharia law is flawed. Especially what is based on hadith. Beating should never be the answer to anything. You are not a Muslim if you think that.

  130. Ahmed says:
    January 27th, 2009 1:25 am

    See we haven’t heard the story from both sides, so we can’t jump to conclusion. What happened to those results? They said that they took Moin Khan to the JPMC to check whether he was intoxicated or not. Not even in a single news, they have the results of those tests. May be he was not drunk?

  131. Rizwan says:
    June 28th, 2009 11:52 am

    I dont agree with the writer…how can you keep on saying that this is a national matter. Your just making a big deal out of it.Dont get me wrong i,m not saying beating wife or a woman is something normal.But this wasnt the first ever case in the world. Moin khan certainly deserves a punishment for that. but this matter must not be given unneccessary hype. Calling it a national matter is also wrong.Moin khan dint beat his wife in the field or during his professional tour during which he represents a country..

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