Adil Najam
This picture is carried today by both Dawn and Daily Times. Dawn’s title is “Still Heroes” and the caption reads: “Bronze statues of Quaid-i-Azam, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan and Allama Iqbal put on display at the Science and Technology Expo-2007 being held at National Memorial Museum in Shakarparian in Islamabad.”
A visit to the Museum is on the top of my ‘To Do’ list when I return to Islamabad end of the month. I hope they are still there.
My first thought on looking at the picture was to note how both Jinnah and Iqbal are wearing suits here (this penchant of ours – me included – to dress up these guys in the garbs of our desires has been has been quite a remarkable historical see-saw!). My second thought was to wonder what the folks at Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa might have to say – or do – about this. I hope there is significant security against vandalism here.
But even more than that, I wonder what these three men are sitting there thinking about what is happening today in the country they helped conceive. Late at night when the museum is closed and the statues come alive and walk about, what is it that they sit together and talk about?
Jabir, have you been to India? It’s just that I find your attitude a little antique. Like I said we do not have to justify the existence of Pakistan any more, like maybe people had to a half century ago, by saying that Muslims are being crushed in a Hindu majority India.
My fiance is from old city of Hyderabad and I went to India for the U.S. immigration required meeting last summer, for me the first time to India.
But before that I knew a lot of Indians and my fiance’s family is mixed Indian/Pakistani as often happens.
Let me tell you all the Indian Muslims I know would be very surprised to hear they are lower achieving or more disadvantaged than Dalits!
Indian Muslims are light years ahead of many groups of poor Hindus, mainly due to their advantage in education.
Quoting reports like this wherever they come from is just a way of stirring up hatred towards India and like I said before, of what use is that any more?
Jabir, if you want to know something about Indian Muslims I suggest you get a visa and a ticket. Reports can be written about anything and numbers can be twisted to mean anything you want.
My personal opinion these days for what it’s worth, is that Muslims in India are not oppressed in an institutionalized, systematic way (I’ll give you the Kashmir exception). I know there is some religious tension. But let’s not overstate the case, please.
I think the report you cite may indicate that Dalits are making long strides in the present day after many centuries of being at the very bottom. If they are achieving more, this is a positive message for them and an indication that the programs meant to help them are working. However, I think it says not much about Muslims.
Thanks for hearing me out.
Nazir, I am not a deoband follower,I am a barelvi but I didn’t blindly believe words by Kokab Noorani sahab who never start Friday prayers unless he collects a handsome amount in name of “Chanda”.
The book or specially the exceprt mentioned by Kokab Sahab, I googled a bit to find the exact statments,found this:
tinyurl.com/yvakpt
-The first statment that “suppose if there’s some prophet at the time of Muhammad[saw] then He[saw] will be still the last Prophet”
Kokab sahab were not aware that there was an arab at the time of Muhammad[saw] named “Muslima Ibn Kazzab” who were jealous of Muhammad[saw]’s popularity and despite of he knows that Muhammad [saw] was the last prophet, he used to tease Him[saw]. So yes the statment made by Qasim sahab is quite true that even if someone claims to be a prophet which Muslima Kazzab did at the time of Muhammad[saw] then it doesnt mean the other person is the last prophet. Go and read further about Muslima Kazzab, he was alive even after death of Muhammad[saw].
-The 2nd statment that “someone claims to be a prophet after death of MUhammad[saw] then it wil not effect the Khatm-e-Nabowat”
I can recall two “famous” name. Mirza Ghulam Qadyani and Rashad Khalifa.
atleast these two points don’t appear blasphemous and can’t be compared anyway with the baseless of prophet by mirza qadyani.
I couldn’t get the last part of 3rd point as it’s written in a difficult urdu and I am not expert in it.
Nazir he asked what is the proof freemasonary exists. When I pointed my towards wahsingtom monument, i didnt ask about its physical existence but what it represnts metaphorically. And in that lies the answer to his question. Period.
So who is avoiding the question here? Or is it getting too thick for you as well?
LOL
Gosh you guys really have some time on ur hands. I wouldnt be able to keep up, for I have walls at my home I can smash my head with for that matter.
YLH: I never claimed I had anything against Qadianis. They are a fine people. Nothing wrong with them. Nothing wrong with their beliefs either.
The state of israel is a whole different matter, so, lets not even go there. Come to my website, and we’ll talk.
Nazir, the term no personal attacks doesnt mean anything to you, does it? Or its another case of you not getting what you read?
Look Newton, you need to do some readings in the history of Christianity. Ever heard of the Ecumenical councils? Go study their work, trust me, u need to. Ever heard of a Pope Gregory? (and please dont quote the da vinci code here) Ever heard of a 100 years war? know what that was all about? to declare what was christian and what was not.
Nazir, what is qadianiat: How about you define that for me? When I wanted to find out I went to Chiniot, hence my recommendation that you visit the place sometime and see what pure form of islam is being practiced over there that we oppressive pakistanis are outcasting.
You keep attacking my personality and keep judging me from all those petty points but you’re hardly proving the point how the law against calling a religion that is not islam oppressive in its literal essence oppressive of Qadianis. As long as they don’t call their practices islam, the law doesnt go get them.
And if you are so adamant about Pakistan’s being anything than a religious state, how about some evidence from your side? What reasoning, did our beloved mr. jinnah present to claim that pakistan needs to be formed?
But like I’ve said, I dont have time for this, while you and the internet cafe guy are friends, it seems. This thread is not the place to discuss qadianis and their matters. Again, I never denied persecution/oppression of Qadianis because I don’t even know of any such cases, or cases of their non-persecutions. All I said was pakistan’s formation was opposed by religious leaders who still exist in pakistan, hate jinnah for any reasons, and would come out and perhaps do something about the statues at the monument. Celebrate the monument for a minute man, before going back to your well of delusion.
[quote]Jabir Khan Apr 11th, 2007 at 7:53 am
USMAN Lets see how you measure up for the ‘PROOF’. Have you seen Washington monument? Can you explain what it represents?[/quote]
Jabir, you are avoiding the question. No one asked you for proof of existence of Washington monument. We will ask this from whomever claims there is such a things. :)
You are only asked to provide proof of what you yourself have claimed and in this forum right here. This is a reasonable thing to ask for. You are the accuser and you need to provide proof. If not then perhaps the decent thing to do is to accept that perhaps you made a mistake in hasty accusations? This would prove that your religion demands honesty from its followers and that you do try to follow it. Rest is up to you. Visitors can make up their own minds depending on your response.
However I am a little intrigued as how you have switched topic form human rights issue to the presumed “criminalâ€