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Vigilante Justice: Horrible, Horrifying, Horrendous (Reader discretion advised)

Posted on May 16, 2008
Filed Under >Adil Najam, Economy & Development, Law & Justice, Politics, Society
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Adil Najam

Stop the violence in Pakistan pleaseFor nearly two days now I have been debating whether to put up this post and, especially, the accompanying photograph. A shiver runs through my body to think about, let alone see, this picture.

But as we have done before (here, here, here, here, here, here) we put up this picture of mob vigilante violence – with the strongest possible advisement for caution by the faint of heart – not because we wish to glorify or fetishize violence but because we want to jolt ourselves, and you, into a realization of just what a horrible, horrifying and horrendous epidemic of violence is spreading through our land.

Recently we had heard of people in Multan reacting to the energy shortage by violently attacking WAPDA offices and officials. Now, one reads of a much more horrifying spectacle of residents in Karachi on May 14 burning alive robbers; two died at the spot and another later in the hospital (details below).

We had called 2007 “A Year of Angst and Anger.” But maybe we live in the age of angst and anger.

(We are purposely putting the picture and story ‘below the fold’ (after the ‘Next Page’ button) so that those who do not wish to read or see this for their own sensibilities can do so.)

Stop the violence in Pakistan pleaseStop the violence in Pakistan please
The real story is told by this very graphic picture below, from AFP, of an angry street mob in Karachi on May 14 burning and being jubilant over the burning of robbers who had just held robbed an apartment in the Nishtar Road area.The basic details, according to The Daily Times are:

A group of incensed residents of the Nishtar Road neighbourhood beat and burnt three robbers so badly on Wednesday that two died on the spot and another died at hospital. The three men (according to some reports there was one more) were caught trying to escape after robbing flat No. 303 of Samia Kalam Building during which its resident Akbar was injured, said DSP Malik Mazar Hussain. There were reports that the men of the area got together to grab the men who were beaten with whatever they could lay their hands on, including sticks and blades. Some type of oil was sprinkled on them and a match was lit.

The police were present but the mob did not agree to hand them over. They said that the police would release them for a bribe or they could easily get bail, so they would tackle matters on their own. They also argued that this incident would teach other criminals a lesson. The incident took place around midday and nearly five to six police mobile units and ambulances reached the scene. An ambulance volunteer claimed that the police was standing there unable to do anything and the other volunteers had to wait for 20 minutes before they could take the injured and dead to hospital. “The robbers were lying in a pile on the road and petrol was poured over them,” he said.

The report in The News gives more texture.

In a shocking incident of vigilante justice, a mob in Karachi on Wednesday burnt three bandits alive near the Timber Market, venting their anger and disgust over the rising crimes.


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The gory incident took place when four robbers barged into Akbar Soomro’s apartment on the third floor in the Somiya Mukarram Palace, situated near the Timber Market. The robbers barged into his house at around 1:30 pm and held the children hostage at gunpoint. They cut the telephone line and electricity wires and locked the house from inside and started misbehaving with the women. The bandits looted cash and jewellery. When they were about to flee, the door bell rang. When the bandits opened the door, they found Akbar, the head of the family. They shot and injured him and started fleeing.

Akbar, a seaman by profession, chased the bandits and made a hue and cry. The passers-by and residents of the area caught the three bandits and started beating them, while the fourth escaped. They immediately shifted Akbar to a hospital where he was declared out of danger. In the meantime, 800 to 1,000 people gathered at the scene and started beating the robbers with fists, blows and sticks. Some people brought kerosene and petrol and sprinkled it over the bandits and the mob torched them. Some people resorted to aerial firing and also shot and injured the bandits before they were killed.

A large contingent of police tried to rescue the bandits but the public resisted and pushed the police back. Edhi workers who tried to save the bandits who were aflame were also beaten by the public. After a tough struggle of 20 minutes, the police managed to shift one injured bandit to hospital, while two bandits who were completely burnt died on the spot. The third bandit died in the hospital after struggling for life for two hours.

The residents said they were happy over the incident and praised the persons who had torched these robbers alive. The robbers, they said, looted the area people and had been killing them for just a cell-phone or cash. They added due to this, they had instructed their children not to resist and surrender cell-phones to the robbers. They said what the people achieved was justice because had the bandits been arrested, they would have been granted bail by the courts and would have resumed looting.

Of course, one’s sympathy is with the children and the family that were robbed and held at gunpoint. Of course, one’s sympathy is with Akbar and his valiant attempt to save his family. Of course, one sympathizes with the community and their anger at the police for not being able to stop these robberies. Of course, one wants the robbers to be brought to justice. But, no, one cannot condone or accept the vigilantism and the very violent vigilantism at that. Had the community caught the robbers and then handed them to the police, maybe pressured the police to actually do something, that would have been heroic. There is nothing heroic about burning them alive, doing so on purpose, and expressing pride at doing so. That is only sad – and deeply disturbing.

Let us put this in context. Because horrible as this incident is, the context is more horrifying. And the real is the increasingly prevalent phenomenon of the justification of violence. The justification of violence and of violent means for achieving goals that one considers worthy – and which may well be worthy – is a deeply disturbing phenomenon (we have heard, and probably will again hear hints of this attitude of justification in the comments right here on ATP).

From the vigilantism of the Lal Masjid brigades, to the murder of a woman MNA, to political mayhem in Karachi last year, to political assassinations, to the menace of suicide bombers, and beyond. All of these are signs of people seeking political and social goals – goals that would ordinarily have been sought through political and social means in a stable society – through violent means. These are signs of a divided society that is losing faith in societal processes and taking things into its own hand. These are manifestations of the tearing apart of a people. A tearing apart that is fed by the apathy and an inability to provide essential justice by those who are in power.

What we see here is a sign – and it is not longer a ‘first’ sign, because there have been too many of these signs – of societal angst having reached blow-up proportions. I have believed, and continue to believe, that we are a good people (I think all people are essentially good but circumstances can make them do bad things). Burning people alive – even criminals – is not what good people do.

I understand that living in Pakistan is like living in a pressure cooker; and the pressure can get to the best of us. But if we are indeed to be vigilant – and we must – then let us also be vigilant of our own actions. Let us not let the actions of those who are compelled to do bad things force us to loose our inherent goodness and human decency.

(Also see discussion at Metroblog Karachi, at Pakistan Spectator and at TeethMaestro’s blog).

144 Comments on “Vigilante Justice: Horrible, Horrifying, Horrendous (Reader discretion advised)

  1. jalal says:
    May 16th, 2008 12:16 pm

    This is hair raising – while the act of the bandits was condemnable, the neighborhood went beyond limits by torching them. While the treatment meted out to the outlaws to a limit was justified, it also shows mistrust of people for the law enforcers who have failed to protect the lives and properties of the people. And even if such culprits are caught, the are either set free after taking bribes or the law provides so much of cushions that the courts set them free. When such is the state, people are bound to over react – which still remains condemnable.

  2. Ayaz Siddiqui says:
    May 16th, 2008 12:34 pm

    The first duty of the state is to protect the life and property of its citizens. When the govt forgets it, this is natural.

  3. Daktar says:
    May 16th, 2008 12:35 pm

    These are really horrifying pictures. I am stunned. More by the reactions of the people looking around. You are right in pointing towards the real story here, which is about taking the law in your own hands.

  4. Daktar says:
    May 16th, 2008 12:36 pm

    Seems like the answer to every problem is about killing someone, beating someone, burning someone.

    What has happened to us!!!!!!

  5. SMM says:
    May 16th, 2008 12:48 pm

    No Ayaz, with due respect there is nothing ‘natural’ about this

    This is bsrbsrianism. These people are actually showing joy as they burn a human being. There is no justice in this bc the punishment does not equal the crime.

    Adil is right. This is sign of a society that justified everything by violence and if we do not condemn the violence it will grow only worse.

  6. SMM says:
    May 16th, 2008 12:51 pm

    and by the way Pakistan is not the only place where govt has problems. Those problems have to be solved but this culture of violence has to be controlled and we cannot make excuses for it to justify the unjustifiable

  7. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    May 16th, 2008 1:29 pm

    @ Adil Najam,,

    ” from the vigilantism…..

    “Lal Masjid vigilantism”, massacre of thousands of militants
    perpetrated by , who ??

    “Woman MNA murdered , because she was “that elite ? (one)

    “Politcal meyham, Political assanissation “(one and many)

    ” Menace of suicide bombers” a negative Int. Political
    approach to the main problem ” Pakistan’s integrity ”

    We ought not to make an amalgam,

    On this blog somebody informed a Lady being raped and
    out side her house 2000 men just watched, in what ?” Protest” ?
    and today’s example, don’t you think its Lawlessness accompanied by hideous crimes, disarray and
    dismal over total ruin of the society ?
    but the luxury continues, always the other, who is victim.

    The security is as rare as ” serious media”, peacefully selling dreams of westernisation, along with the ” Human”
    appeals from “elites” to calm down the revolts,

    When the water in on the brink !
    The ” popular justice ” alas, becomes the reality, when
    all kind of Badma’shi is allowed with Bhattas, and political
    WILL, of political Professional “Thugs”.
    IN PAKISTAN, CRIMES ARE NURTURED FOR
    SOMEBODY ELSE’S ” A G E N D A ”

    INDEED, IT IS ABHORRENT

  8. Alix says:
    May 16th, 2008 1:40 pm

    Deep inside me, I know this is wrong. No human being, even a criminal, deserves to meet his end this way.

    But I cannot help feeling a bit smug & satisfied. I think of the time my angelic grandmother ran from one place to another to protect an extension to her house from being demolished (it was legal but somehow my uncle, her son had earned the irk of a local power broker who wanted to teach him “his place”), my uncle who spent years trying to evict someone out of his shop, my best friend whose house was occupied by their relatives when his father died and his mother could never get back, my uncle being verbally abused by cops and the list goes on and on.

    After spending 30 years of my life at the bottom run of the ladder in a society where connections were all that mattered and I had none, I see something like this and am startled at the sense of satisfaction that it gives me.

    I don’t know what it makes me but that is what it is.

    I

  9. Mehdi says:
    May 16th, 2008 1:44 pm

    For those that say punishment does not equal the crime… etc.. please know that since we are not criminals ourselves or see crimes first hand… we are not abhorred by them the way some one else could…a crime is a crime…. realize this… you have someone who has just put a gun on your neighbor’s daughter’s head and demanded money with the ultimate threat and all intentions of executing the threat…… could be a blood boiling site…. we applaud James Bond, Colonel Faridi and Indiana Jones in fiction whole heartedly when they solve such problems with two bullets on site …

    I think we should all go see the movie…. Death Wish and few others made on this topic…… I am not a violent person… but sometimes…. the Maslow’s needs demands Justice… It happened in developed countries like US in 70s and 80s…Humans are humans… on course of history we become advanced roman empires then go backwards to become the Daahir’s ….. and then we rise to be civil and then we invade Iraq… It’s a balance in the end… as one of my leadership training coach said in Break Through thinking “It is what it is.. nothing less nothing more !”

  10. Pakistani says:
    May 16th, 2008 1:48 pm

    I look at your front page and only 6 stories down from this you have the pictures also from Karachi of the killing that took hold of this city then. There is something clearly wrong when so many people can take so much death and killing a if it was “normal”.

    Something is terribly wrong when something like this does not even make to front page of the newspapers which are too busy worrying about coalitions and judges and ministries and who can rob the country how. Why are we not outraged by this? Why are’nt the newspapers and teh channels stopping everything else and wondering how something like this could happen?

    You look at the news channels and everytime some stupid politician sneezes they call it “BREAKING NEWS”. Why is this not breaking news.

    Maybe we have become Bay-hiss as well as Bay-hiya.

  11. Ayaz Siddiqui says:
    May 16th, 2008 2:08 pm

    @SMM…

    Why this is not natural. That area is one of the lower middle class localities of Karachi. That basically translates to a major part of the day without power, water and gas.Crime is rampant. There is no use going to the police. Unemployment is high. You open the paper everyday and find out that somebody high up gets everything by showing muscle power. So what is wrong with these people taking the law in their own hands.

    Now you can object to the construction of this sentence. To take in their own hands, there should be LAW, which is simply snoozing around at the top of the page. These people have no where to go and complain. It is simply a question of the pressure cooking bursting up..wich is NATURAL.

  12. Daktar says:
    May 16th, 2008 2:14 pm

    Now that I look at this again, I think the picture you have on your front page header (of sleeping police cop) is as telling about what is wrong here as this horrible picture of people being burnt while spectators look along like its a sports match of some sort!!!!!

  13. SMM says:
    May 16th, 2008 2:18 pm

    Yaar we can argue about words but my point only is that burning someone or enjoying the sight of someone being burnt as these people are cannot be a natural human reaction. MYbe an animal one.

    I understand the anger at the he’ll people have to live through but if everyone turns to this then where will it end?

  14. MQS says:
    May 16th, 2008 2:35 pm

    I think it

  15. Steve says:
    May 16th, 2008 2:37 pm

    I think the only way we can seriously stop this…is to ask Mr. Mushrraf to call in Marshal Law, get rid of all this evil elements that are trying to run this beautil country…and bring us back to where we were…Pakistan does not deserve Democracy, they deserve military rule…General Zia run that for about 10 years by never took us anywhere..but there was peace…no one dare come out and ruin hi rule..but then when we had Musharraf, which was kind of a military rule, but far better then Gen. Zia Ul Haq….Musharraf gave us everything we wanted, why did we as for a change…why….can anyone tell me….why did we vote for this new government..which is really not doing much. Getting curupt judges back in control seems to be the top priorty…then people of pakistan…..I’m confused really.

  16. DR. says:
    May 16th, 2008 3:39 pm

    Yes, Steve, you are right.
    You are confused!
    You should seek help.

  17. Disgusted says:
    May 16th, 2008 4:20 pm

    This problem of deep seated violence is much deeper than we think. Look at the video of two women in Karachi physically beating each other on a Karachi street.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAP4uZhq9oQ

    And no one even stops them.Instead someone makes a video!

  18. muhammad ali says:
    May 16th, 2008 5:46 pm

    I so not believe it…. I am not sure even if I can say I am surprised. One thing please remove these pictures (in respect of human life, Please do so).

    I am not sure even if I want to be called Pakistani anymore. I can not change millions of desperately lost souls called Pakistanis….but given the first chance, these pictures make me want to giveup Pakistani citizenship

    All we do is complain about West, about enemies of Islam, about whole world conspiring against us….but HOW can 1000 people stand there and perpetrate this horrific act….and then go back home, pretending to be normal…..then we think “we are the one on RIGHT path”…… shame on us……if being pakistani and being muslim can not teach us HUMANITY…..let me say both these identities are worth nothing……. there is something utterly wrong with us, we have no tolerance (and let me say MUSLIMS in general have no tolerance, they pretend to espouse Islam whichis for peace…and let me say with great shame …they instead justify voilence as reaction to oppression), we have no respect for life, we have no DIRECTION, and we value nothing…….. there is a reason that we are sinking deeper and deeper in cricis…….we are so wretched that MUHAMMAD (pbuh) was tortured in “taif”, heavens were shaken with anger, god asked him how to deal with his “tormentors”….but he asked for mercy for people oof taif……and YET we…..who think we love Muhammad so much (yea thats why we murdered his grandsons in Karbala)……….and that we are so LOYAL to him….and that we are self-elected guides of this world….that the moment someone says something that we dont want to listen…..we are ready to slit his/her throat in name of “blasphemy”…….i am not sure what to say…..cause these acts of social violence…….are but tip of iceberg….there are so many things wrong with us at so many levels…….and our biggest tragedy is we have no one to guide us…….the politcal leaders are there to sell this country for personal powers…..spiritual leaders do not have moral courage and intellectual depth to question wrong religious traditions …….(let me highlight another perplexing question……APOSTACY…….islam is religion of freewill…….we can not force anyone to enter islam….we can only win someone’s heart….but ironically when someone decides to leave circle of islam…the penalty is death…..”though quran says….its for god to decide how to deal with such individuals”…..I am sorry, I have brains….and I question things…….and just do not SHUSH my heart if it sees some conflicts in basic principles of islam and shariah….yes i question…if muhammad was about love and kindness and blessing for whole universe and if islam is freewill then how can we practice blasphemy and murder for apostacy……………..are we as MUSLIMS ……more important than God and Muhammad…..that we will tresspass limits set by him….and decide how to deal with offenders………………….)………………. therefore i say there are so many things wrong with us……cause we do not want to peep in our own collar….we do not want to see hypocrisy in our hearts….we do not want to see our real faces….we are not ready to admit our mistakes and correct ourselves….we do not want to ASK DIFFICULT questions, and most importantly we think we have pledged alliance to GOD and MUHAMMAD yet we have SOLD our souls to traditions, to islamic clergy and to god of violence, suicide bombing and terrorism……………………..and in the midst of all this madness who is PAKISTANI…..i do not know…………..(I wont be surprised if likes of Osama bin laden (who i think have no right to be called muslims …yet unfortunatley whole world identify them as representative of ISLAM ….will declare to murder me….cause by pointing our faults i have committed blasphemy)

  19. Human says:
    May 16th, 2008 6:07 pm

    Well Mr M. Ali.. u said muslims dont have tolerance.. from ur name I assume u r a muslim and from your writing I’d say u r tolerant… so u see u can’t blame muslims generally, u give a bad impression… yes there are ppl who are not tolerant.. the real thing to look for is “why are u tolerant and they are not?”; that is the real question…. but lets pause for a moment and see whats going on… in Pakistan in the last 60 years the life of an average Pakistani has grown from bad to worst… ppl have been pushed on and over the edge for so long and so many times by the dictatorships, hunger, deprivation and injustice… I believe everything has a limit, and everything reaches its limit to spawn a change… the change can be good or bad.. I think and I know that the ppl in Pakistan have reached their limit and is already creating a change, good or bad it depends from where u look at it… so who is to blame for that? muslims? i think here u r wrong.. just take a step back and rethink .. and i know u’ll see the answer…

  20. Ayaz Siddiqui says:
    May 16th, 2008 6:19 pm

    @disgusted….what’s wrong with a good ol catfight..

    When these #$%#$%#$ kill us while snatching a cell phone or a car, no blogs are written on it and no tears are shed…Why we are trying to portray our softer side for the earth’s scum.

  21. muhammad ali says:
    May 16th, 2008 6:20 pm

    MR HUMAN

    do not tell me what pakistanis are going thru…i am born and bred in pakistan…i have worked hard and tried to be honest….. i have also spent whole night misreably on roof top cause of loadsedding in unforgiving July, I have been frustrated on roads due to traffic congestions….i have been annoyed and wronged by uncoperating officials in passport office……etc etc etc…………..read my POST again….u dont seem to understand what i am saying….i dont know what u r implying by saying “whts the real reason for our plight”…but its definetly not USA or west….its we ourselves………..cause as quoted by lated ishfaq ahmed (great intellectual of pakistan)….if life is going wrong…..we need to look in oursleves….we will find we have faults…….its about LOCUS of CONTROL…….and we control our lives…….WE……dont place blame on others……bcz this way u r loosing control of yr life,,,,,,,we are this way because of our own WRONGS,,,,,

  22. Saadiya says:
    May 16th, 2008 6:20 pm

    OH MY GOD!!!!

  23. Allah Wasaya says:
    May 16th, 2008 6:23 pm

    I for one am not surprised one bit at this unfortunate incidence. We are showing our disgust as if the name of our country is Switzerland, or New Zealand or Iceland, the name of our country is PAKISTAN, where women are sentenced to be gang raped or offered as a peace offering in disputes, where young children are subjected to hard labor, where in the 21st century a constant supply of electricity is a luxury, where people die by drinking impure water and the list goes on and on. So once again, whats all the fuss about?? big deal..?

  24. Eidee Man says:
    May 16th, 2008 6:42 pm

    Adil, actually, please do not remove the pictures. I know they are extremely disturbing and this is the same argument people use to not watch images of people in natural disasters, etc being crushed to death. But the point is that this kind of stuff SHOULD disturb and disgust us until we feel compelled to do something about it.

    Also, I don’t understand the comparisons some are making between Pakistan and other countries on this issue; this has only to do with our core values as a society and not much else. Justice and respect for humanity should be not relative, but absolute concepts.

  25. Human says:
    May 16th, 2008 7:52 pm

    M. Ali.. i didnt talk about any foreign intervention as a cause of our plight like u hv mentioned in ur reply… wat i said that most of the ppl of Pakistan doesnt even have basic human rights.. then wat do u expect from them… if everyone in Pakistan was given even the basic rights then and a chance to work hard and try to be honest like u then we never would have seen this moment… u cannot expect a human being, deprived of food, not to steal… u cannot expect from a human being, who is not given proper education and opportunities to better his social life, to be as civilizes as us… everyone in the country dont get the same opportunities like u and me.. all im trying to say is that they should.. its the failure of our leadership and ruthless dictatorial rules that the people of Pakistan were suppressed and deprived from basic human needs…

  26. irritated pakistani says:
    May 16th, 2008 9:03 pm

    Very bad. Very very bad. People have lost any sense of tolerance. It is shocking. The victims may have been robbers. But the burning, taking pictures, not letting police or medical workers help the robbers and the attitude of the “murderers” is shocking. The authorities must take a very strong action against this. The rule of law must prevail.

  27. Anwar says:
    May 16th, 2008 9:26 pm

    This is simple proof of failure of state to implement an honest and accountable justice system. Furthermore, I have seen an increase in sadistic tendencies among people over past two decades. Those who took lives of these young people must be brought to justice… it is no laughing matter rather a sad reflection of ourselves…

  28. 2Cents says:
    May 16th, 2008 10:27 pm

    Burning is punishment only Allah can give. It is sad to see such a severe punishment which transgresseds into shirk.

    Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

    Narrated ‘Ikrima:

    Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ‘Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn ‘Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”

  29. Ahmed Bilal says:
    May 16th, 2008 10:38 pm

    The elections of February 18, 2008 were a referendum for change in the system. People felt relieved at the way PML-N and PPP behaved with each other. They were happy about their intentions to solve the problems at hand – like the judiciary issue which is directly related to all kinds of injustice, suicide bombings , flour crisis, and energy crisis.

    However, the past few events like the appointment Salman Taseer, postponement of by-elections, and the resignation of PML-N ministers suggest that the system has not change. Firstly our political leaders haven’t changed the way they think. Secondly, and most important of all, the army is still supporting Musharraf behind the scenes.

    Since the times of Z.A. Bhutto and before that, since Independence, our country hasn’t witnessed such a need for political, social and moral awakening.

  30. jk says:
    May 16th, 2008 11:53 pm

    Usually I have something to say for almost any topic posted on this site but this leaves me utterly speechless.

  31. jk says:
    May 16th, 2008 11:59 pm

    Ahmed Bilal > This has nothing to do with politics or the government. Our society as a whole has failed when people can set fire to each other to the sound of cheering.

    Having a corrupt government does not mean that the people turn into… I can’t even call them animals because animals don’t do this.

    This reflects the health of our society. It was sick earlier and now it has gone beyond sick into the realms of uncontrollable insanity.

  32. Ahmed Bilal says:
    May 17th, 2008 12:34 am

    @ jk:

    This has a lot to do with politics and government. The people of this country and especially the people of Karachi have lost faith in governance of the elected and non-elected officials.It was this lack of faith that forced them to do such a heinous action. These people didn’t know one trust-worthy ‘thanedar’ or a political personality whom they would talk to about this injustice. They just didn’t know. But does that justify their action? No Sir No! I am not justifying their action. I am pointing out the cause. Our people are purely good people. It is just that the times our bad.

    I know you won’t be able to digest what I have just said, hence I would have to waste my time elaborating this. Some people might say that Pol/Gov has direct relationship to this event and some would say indirect – well I really don’t care. I deem it responsible because these officials are the ones with highest authority – be they from PPP or MQM or from the beauracracy. Should they have gone to a journalist or a scholar or a judge or a lawyer for this purpose? Logically, they should have gone to a lawyer (but these days the justice itself is fighting its own case, what would have the lawyers done?), then they should have fought the case in a court. The police even doesn’t come into this situation. It is the police’s job to arrest the criminals, not to do justice. But the people do not trust the justice system, so they formed their own concept of street justice. You would argue now that these people were illiterate. They weren’t. They were literate enough to have let the police do its job. Do you even know how do corrupt politicians and gov officials can easily bribe the police people? Now why this happens and what are the motives on this, that is a long story I would suggest you to read Animal Farm, Tolstoy, Bernard Shaw…If I go with your story then you are simply saying that are people have gone blood thirsty and violent. And If you are saying that, then God help you! Your next theory might be that zombies are going to come up in Karachi some day.

    These poor people weren’t able to buy justice(because that is what done in Pakistan), let alone get justice- which is their birth right. So they just stole justice, in their own demented way. But why would you understand. Because you haven’t gone through what these people went through. If you read the article carefully, it is said that the same gang had done similar robberies in the same neighborhood before….even killed some people. Full stop.

    Bringing Islam into the discussion, would spice up the discussion and open a pandora box. But, I would just like to point that in our deen we have laws to deal with criminals too . I think they simply implemented one of the law i.e. blood for blood. However, I think what they should have done was to try those corrupt officials (be they elected or non-elected) who turned a blind-eye to the actions of these criminals in the first place and let them loose.

    PS: After writing this all BS, I realize now that you might have an incorrect sense of what a politician is. Basically he is a social representative there to solve the public problems of people be it the ever-increasing crime or development work. He isn’t just there to be elected to the assemblies and pass resolutions.

  33. QURBAN says:
    May 17th, 2008 1:20 am

    Some of the comments here seem to be getting into exactly the type of self-righteousness that leads to the type of violence we are condemning. This belief that we and only we have the truth and anyone who disagrees with us must be not only wrong but evil. The arrogance of some is amazing and this belief that only they are smart and anyone who disagrees with them must be stupid. As the essay says, we are a good people and we should not let a few bad people define who we become.

  34. Janeeta says:
    May 17th, 2008 2:11 am

    I know its shocking, completely brutal act and no sane person can do this but again do you really think that people living in our society especially in Karachi can by any standards be qualified as sane? This act just shows the years of frustration that has piled up in our people …. i too live in Karachi and at times is so much frustrated just feels like killing someone …. i always argued my parents and peers that we should have psychologists in our educational institutions and workplaces to whom people can turn to whenever there is a need ….
    I am not that experienced as compare to you guys just have started my career and havent seen that much of a world but tell me Adil Bhai a child who grows up seeing violence all around …. who has been deprived of basic things in life like water, electricity, justice etc … as a teenager who has suffered because of political unrest … as a grown up has been left unemployed and with soaring prices …. high crime rates …. lack of basic facilities …. burdened with responsibilities of family … what s/he should do? Its no big surprise why there is a high suicide rate among our teenagers and youngsters ….. On a daily basis i see accidents and people lying crying for help and no one comes … i see pictures/ videos of violence and gore that has been going around the country and i didnt react on that … i remain stuck in traffic jams for hours and remain without electricity and water for hours even for days and i do nothing … i see elderly people being misbehaved by the law enforcers … i see how a common citizen is being bullied by the high ups of the society and if i can tolerate all this then why not this brutal act????? I’m not justifying this act of vigilance all i want is to present a picture of society where we live in and i believe that any person who bears all that and still go about life just like normal cannot be considered as sane and insane person can do anything

    A recent update that police have arrested the area people for their brutal act and i wish that they get punished (read fined) for this act so no one dare to follow the example

  35. Faraz says:
    May 17th, 2008 2:15 am

    While the vigilantism is concerning, it can be justified given our injust justice system. People have lost faith in police and courts and sometimes take things into their own hands. Bad, but okay.

    What’s deeply disturbing is the cruel and violent punishment they chose for the criminals. And on top of that they aren’t humbled and troubled at the sight of burning human beings. They are cheering, or at least two of them as shown by the photos. I thought the people in the videos who behead their hostages were sick and disturbing, but I found comfort in thinking that they are a very small and isolated minority. But now it seems the average man, for whatever reason, has become desensitized and hungry for violence. We are starting to lose our humanity.

    People who are defending this act, would you still be ok if they had literally butchered them alive and fed them to the dogs? Where do you draw the line?

  36. SH Kavi says:
    May 17th, 2008 2:19 am

    I make me sick to my stomach to watch this video. It looks surreal, Its hard to believe that it was happening in front of a crowd who watched it, nobody stepped forward to stop it or registered his or her protest { as far as I know from the news}There could be many dimensions to this horrendous and inhuman act , three psychological explanations come to my mind.
    1- Citizens of Karachi have seen so much violence in the last 30 years that it has desensitized them.
    2-Mob Mentality. A person might not do something of this nature individually but in mob situation he or she might do it.
    3-Collective anger,
    I don’t think it needs any further explanation.

  37. Faraz says:
    May 17th, 2008 2:42 am

    Janeeta, a very sobering response. Thanks for putting thinks into a larger context.

  38. mohammed ali jawaid says:
    May 17th, 2008 4:18 am

    The gory incident must be condemned and there cannot be any justification for it. One must admit however, that this is the height of frustration of the people who have been deprived of justice at the hands of of country’s justice system of which police is a big part who people have no faith on.

    Country’s leadership must react to such incidents. A change for the better will only come by reforming the system. Unfortunately, none of the governments have time for such reforms, perhaps it suited them too, and this is the reason that we have reached a stage where people have resorted to such extreme violence.

  39. Junaid says:
    May 17th, 2008 5:02 am

    although i may have not done the same but i am not too shocked to see that.
    reason i had been through it, if i were them i would have simply shot them.
    one night i went to seaview with my elder cousin, her son, my wife and an infant daughter and my two sons when i returned after giving kids a ride on horses i was held on the gun point by three to four gunmen.
    although i had never been in same situation but fortunately was mentally prepared as had been familiar with the weapons and also just few days back one of my best friend was robbed similar fashion with his family in car and his robbers rode with him for 1/2 hour.
    fortunately or unfortunately we didnt had any valuables and unfortunately because i got concerned they got nothing they may react violently, although they went peacefully but it left a constant mark on my kids they dont want to go to seaview, they dont want to sit in car without my presence.
    thanks God i didnt show any signs of fear otherwise i dont know what impression of me would it had left on my kids.

    now tell me how would any one feel when he is robbed in front of your wife and sister and kids, robbers riding in your car with your family… desperate times need desperate actions.

  40. Sarmad Qazi says:
    May 17th, 2008 5:09 am

    There was a case recently in Pakistan where a passer-by ‘arrested’ a fleeing robber and handed him over to the police. The incident was publicized as a noble deed by both locals and media. However, when the police’ DSP came on the news he totally failed to give any credit to the brave man who carried out the ‘arrest’ and in fact stated that it was the police who caught the robber. The claimant was badly treated by the police as well as the they saw this as an insult to their jobs. Kinda like a snub.

    But I continue to advocate for reforms in Police, since Rs8,000/month (for a ‘sipahi’) is not going to help them run a family. An overwhelming majority of them are overworked – thanks to 15-18hours shifts.

    I also continue to seek answer to this: Does the corruption in Police reflect society’s moral standing or it’s the other way around?

  41. Khairulbashar Siddiqui says:
    May 17th, 2008 6:04 am

    I wish we living in USA, after retirement go back to Pakistan in group and help people to combat injustice and anger in our society. I can not blame people reacting this way. Back in seventies, I have rejected the ideas of my siblings to keep a gun in house even for self defense. I thought at that time that religion can solve the problem of anger, but I now believe that people has even misuse this avenue.
    Please do something. We pakistani Americans are the only hope. We have to resolve our differences here first in a real way.
    We have to agree on disagreement and learn to solve our differences by negotiation and then help our pakistani brothers. There is no black and white, it is all grey with different shades. Neither the Mob , nor the Robbers were all bad. Only the people in real authority are the worst grey shade of our Society. I have no answer , but believe that these should be discussed very often. May Allah bless us.

  42. Fazal i Malik abdul Malik says:
    May 17th, 2008 6:24 am

    I belong to NWFP and living abroad. Sometimes I think of going back to my country and start to live there, but when I watch TV or read newspaper, I stop thinking of going back to our Beloved Country. The polictical situaition, electricity, gas, aata and all other basic needs are short and the prices of these items are sky rockiting daily. The governments are telling lies and the sufferes are only the poor (AWAM). The recent burning of 3 culprits in Karachi is, in my opinion is the show of anger of the people and reaction. So, dont think of this too much, but try to reach to the bottom of this cause. Regards

  43. Adnan says:
    May 17th, 2008 7:31 am

    After watching the whole scene on TV channels, i was deeply shocked and depressed. The frustration that people showed by burning three young men alive is an outcome of the corrupt police and justice system in Pakistan. A fear that someone will offcence you while you drive or shop outside home with your family or alone has become normal for karachites. Almost 7 out of 1o people have lost their valuables on the streets of Karachi and many by twice and thrice. I have lost my money and mobile twice. These street criminals have killed so many people on having resistance from the victim. What is the solution ? The population of karachi is reaching 15 million, the inflation is getting out of its limit, people have no jobs, no security, no food, people are divided on basis of politics, language and religion. We are not one nation, we are not only pakistani, we are not sincere with our country, we have lost courage and bravery. The only free thing available in Pakistan is the common man’s life and his blood which is very cheap. Killings, murders, torchers, looting, street crimes and many other similar to these are the easiest to achieven in pakistan. Where to go ? what to do ? who will come to help us? Does any one have any answer to these questions ?

    I pray to ALLAH to forgive the sin of the three who burned alive (ameen).

  44. May 17th, 2008 7:58 am

    when i saw its video on youtube by someone with his mobile cam thursday morning, i nearly vomitted to it. its too barbaric but then again, we all know we r asking for it and asking for more of it in coming times. our chit chatting here aint doing no good we all know that, its time to protest on the streets again….

  45. May 17th, 2008 8:12 am

    @Mohammad Ali
    uve spoken like a true champ!

  46. Okha_Jatt says:
    May 17th, 2008 8:14 am

    Another similar incident has happened in Karachi and one of the robbers is dead.

    I don’t think vigilante justice is good but then the question is why it is happening? Have we lost patience or have we lost confidence in the social contract which we have with our state as citizens? I am not an intellectual and do not know the answer to this question but I do know that there is a limit for everything. Try to imagine what hardened the hearts of this crowd(mob?) who burned these robbers? Were they target of similar crimes in past? Did they have a bad experience with police and do not trust them for the law and order maintenance? I think there are multitude of factors which are contributing.

    @Adil

    “Had the community caught the robbers and then handed them to the police, maybe pressured the police to actually do something, that would have been heroic.”

    Adil, do you really believe this pressure to the police would have worked? May be you need to spend a bit more time in Pakistan and have some first hand dealings with police.

  47. A Question says:
    May 17th, 2008 10:20 am

    Can we get the youtube URL for this incident??

  48. Daktar says:
    May 17th, 2008 11:30 am

    As I had already said and others have mentioned, while we can UNDERSTAND why this happened, no one can JUSTIFY it. Yes, we need a more effective police force, but we also need a more tolerant and less hot-headed society.

  49. sidhas says:
    May 17th, 2008 12:00 pm

    The picture does not surprise me. I once witnessed myself hovering around bodies after they were dumped in the neighborhood in ginny bags. Not because it excited me because I wanted to see first hand the violence that was being prepetrated and sometimes I happenend to be in wrong place.

    After witnessing violence in Karachi in the late eighties and then in nineties, I had become convinced we are nation of sociopaths “darinda sift”. That may be over-generalization and gross exxageration but the numbers are piling against us.
    Among us, there is significant number who support violence in all shape and forms against their opponents. Then there is a significant majority that can rationalize and justify violent acts. There is only a small and ever diminishing minority that is against violence in all shapes and forms.

    This vigilantism and utter choas will only increase unless we all come to accept and adhere to certain facts just like our counterparts in Europe did back in the renaissance age that life, liberty, equality, justice and equity are for all to enjoy regardless of race, ethnicity, and religion.

    Sahibaan, hum “darinda sift” log hain. Humain (mujhe aur apko) ye baat maan laine chaheye.

    Jab tak ye ghalat fahami rahi gi ke hum bohat muhazib air tahzeeb yafta qoom hain. Yehi hota rahay ga.

    Adil sahib ne ye pictures shaya kar ke us jhoot per se parda uthanay ki nakaam koshish ki hai.

    Abhi to janab ye darindigi aur veshat barhay gi. Aaj eski lepait mein mujrim hain, kal mazloom hoinge. Aaj mein hoon, kal aap hoingey. Abhi ko baqool shair “ibtedae ishq hai….aagay aagay dekhye hota hai kiya.

  50. sidhas says:
    May 17th, 2008 12:13 pm

    Sarmad Qazi

    I agrree with your thougth that police reform should also include income allotted to police officers.

    We must treat our government employees as human beings for them to treat whom they are serving as humans.

  51. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    May 17th, 2008 1:01 pm

    @Sidhas,

    Sidha ji, wah wah, kesi sidhi gal kiti ay tusi !!
    but sorry, your reference to European renaissance
    does not tell the origin of ” that Quality ” the world,
    however existed, before and after that !!
    Europe was and is violent today, the forms of
    expression have become very subtle, don’t you think ?
    Is it useful to give you examples, blatant ones ?

  52. ShahidnUSA says:
    May 17th, 2008 1:56 pm

    “Tang Amid, Bejang Amid”

    Last night I saw a movie “Iron man” where in one scene I didnt have to read the subtitles because terrorist were speaking Urdu.
    Not pushtu or Arabic but director went for pakistani national language. Urdu being poetic language was nt a very good fit for terrorist.
    So its not just internally, its internationally as well.

    “Budnam hoey to kia naam na ho ga”

  53. Allah Wasaya says:
    May 17th, 2008 2:32 pm

    If you want to view this horrendous video you can go to LIVELEAK dot com and search for robbers burned alive.

  54. Poor Hungry Doc says:
    May 17th, 2008 9:06 pm

    Why can’t we be the change we want to see in other people? Everyone who comments here seem to be good educated people, but rather than lamenting the state of things, why can’t we think up ways to change it? One person may not be able to bring change, but a critical mass of thought and action would bring change.

    We must have a stake in our country and society. Rather than lamenting the way things are and discuss running away to other countries, we can have neighbourhoods cooperating to conserve power, have watch programs, volunteer to prevent crime and violence by educating the young and discussing our differences, bringing up the level of intellectual discussion. If one person cannot do it, then a group can. It has to start somewhere.

  55. Saeed says:
    May 18th, 2008 12:51 am

    Hi Adil,

    I heard about this yesterday and it is good you posted it on your website. Unfortunately this is the result of Pakistan’s abysmal track record in tracking and bringing criminals to justice. But I totally condemn this so-called vigilantism — it is criminal. This reflects Pakistan’s descent into the hell – our beloved country is fast slipping into one of those wild states in Africa such as Nigeria (or Rwanda) where citizens routinely take law into their own hands. This is not the Pakistan we dreamt of and aspired for when we were young. No one should be allowed to take law into their own hands and no one should be above the law. Successive governments have failed to enforce the writ of law which has resulted in Lal Mosque incident, the tribal insurgency and the lawlessness on the streets of Karachi. I am not sure when we will learn. I am appalled.
    Saeed

  56. ShahidnUSA says:
    May 18th, 2008 1:04 am

    The picture up there that I hate to look back is happened in the city where I was born. I hope this never happened there again.
    I am sorry If I got emotional but I want to tell you that they are good people, they are just having a bad time.

  57. ASHRAF says:
    May 18th, 2008 1:37 am

    You are so right.

    We do get too angry over everything. One driver makes a mistake and everyone starts honking. People abuse each other. Even fistfights on teh road.

    Yaar, itna bhi ghusa kuon?

  58. Eidee Man says:
    May 18th, 2008 2:22 am

    Dawn reports ANOTHER similar incident took place in Karachi. Let’s not blame others; it seems like we will destroy ourselves before anyone else gets a chance to do so.

  59. jamshed nazar says:
    May 18th, 2008 5:39 am

    Goverment is totally broken down in Pakistan for years now.

    Everyone should have atleast a handgun in the house and in the car.
    Anyone dacoit comes to the house, just kill him before he kills u.

    I aprreciate the frontier and fata societies that eveyone, rich or poor, is armed and is able to defend himself.

    People in karachi, lahore, islamabad coming from fmailies of petty business men or small farmers are too scared to defend themselves and wait for the poice and the system and the politicians and God himself to do the justice when they are kicked around in every day lives. On the other hand, landlords, big politicans and even big business men all understand the ground rules and have gun men, gangs and the police to get around. Look at Musharraf himself.

    I am happy to the extent that people, to whatever extent they are downtrodden, do ultimately have some self respect and have taken some actions to seek justice.

    For all cheap commentators who are weeping their heart out on these pictures and videos, I just ask them if they do not notice the millions of acts of injustice and voilence that occur against ordinary people every day? What if these dacoits had raped and killed the household? – and this happens every other day – why should u feel so much mercy at this one picture or video? this just points out that we as a society are so insensitive to injustice everyday that we do not even see, remember or acknowledge it – the “do nothing / not my problem” mind set is the one that should be abhored.

    Should these robbers have been killed by the mob? No – if they were caught in america or europe or even nowadays in india and there was a functioning and responsible society with effective governence and law enforcement – the people would have automatically handed them over to the police and woyuld have waited for the trial.

    But in Pakistan- the “land of the pure” I am happy to say that what happened is exactly what makes sense for people.

    The biggest failure in this case is the failure of hte politicians that are unable to reform and improve the life of the common man.

    Look at MQM – all these gangster kids are, in my view, part of the local operators, sector commanders etc of MQM itself. MQM as a political party has learnt from the street how to rob and live off the common man. Bhatta or forced money collected from the streets is the key source of MQM funds. When this party is controlling the police stations, the courts, the media and businesses, what is the ray of hope for the common man? The mere prescense of MQM as a functioning and “winning” political party in Karachi shows what kind of society Karachi has become.

    I am not surprised, angry or upset at these pictures. This is just a snapshot of a moment. All over the country the silent majority faces more brutal acts of injustice of and slow poisioning and these acts in slow motion are not noticed.

    Only when a gory picture emerges as a breaking news like these three bandits caught on fire, some drawing room commentators start delopring the “morality” of the common man.

    This is good news that the common man is tired of the life itself and is taking matters into his own hands. This is the only path towards reformation.

  60. Murtaza says:
    May 18th, 2008 6:19 am

    I have no sympathy for the robbers who were caught and then brutally murdered.
    The worrying thing for me with this whole fiasco is that the ‘robber community’ will now use more violence and shoot everyone who tries to apprehend them because they know if they get caught they are up for it.

    It’s the general public who lost in this case.

  61. Murtaza says:
    May 18th, 2008 6:47 am

    But then again, if I put myself in Akbar’s shoes (the man whose family was robbed), I think I wouldn’t be unhappy at the outcome.

  62. ibs says:
    May 18th, 2008 7:25 am

    Well whatever you wanna say & do to act all civilized & what not is futile. These robbers deserve it, The law enforcement authorities dont play theyre part, thats when the people come in & try to take things into their own hands.Theyre not doing anything bad, theyre killing people that deserve to be killed. Shariah law is not implemented as it should be since we are muslims, these robbers are supposed to have their hands chopped off & since the same robbers are murderers they deserve to be killed. Its not being done the right way, but you cant blame the people for their anger & frustrations.

  63. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    May 18th, 2008 8:02 am

    @ Shall we not wait for MQM’s claim
    for the burned ones, we are slowly receiving
    confirmations that these two cases, dacoits
    were MQM’s “sympathisers” ( member’s relatives)
    and received money.
    Today something similar happened in Lahore ??
    Red Alert on 90 Azizabad !!
    Thugtaf is very angry

  64. Ayaz Siddiqui says:
    May 18th, 2008 8:43 am
  65. jk says:
    May 18th, 2008 8:46 am

    ibs > No fair trial in Shariah according to you? Sharia, according to you, is vigilantism where people can set other people, accused to being robbers, on fire?

    What this was, was a CRIME no matter how you spin it.

  66. jk says:
    May 18th, 2008 8:48 am

    To all the people who are claiming that the robbers “deserved it” or that you don’t have any sympathies for the people who were murdered: You guys deserve the state that Pakistan is headed towards. Just keep the other people out of your mentally deranged views of the world.

  67. Murtaza says:
    May 18th, 2008 11:37 am

    Dear jk,

    Calling other people’s opinions ‘mentally deranged’ is the same kind of mentality which led to this incident.

    Please be civil in your conversations and show some tolerance towards people not in agreement with your views.

    Although I do think that ‘Ibs’ wants to make Pakistan another Afghanistan, which would never happen and the people of Pakistan would never create a monstrous society like the Taliban’s Afghanistan.

  68. jk says:
    May 18th, 2008 12:24 pm

    Dear Murtaza,

    Unfortunately, the Taliban were created in part by people who are Pakistani. It can happen to us and it is in the progress of happening to us. Simply stating that it can’t happen in the face of surmounting evidence will not make it go away.

    And “mentally deranged” is a completely accurate description of a person who condones insane vigilantism that was documented in this post. Look at the burning bodies and the people dancing around them. How else would you describe that scene? How would you want me to sugar coat it?

  69. Murtaza says:
    May 18th, 2008 12:57 pm

    Dear jk,

    I did not condoned that brutal act of violence at any point. Maybe it’s my inability to convey my point which led you to make that assumption. I don’t believe in extrajudicial justice. For me, they were unjustly murdered.

    My point was that although what happened was extremely regrettable and shameful but at the same time we shouldn’t project those robbers as the ‘innocent victims’ of a barbarous mob. They were partly responsible for what happened to them. That’s karma for you.

    In the end, I would like to sincerely apologize to you if my post offended you in any way, shape or form.

  70. Adnan Ahmad says:
    May 18th, 2008 1:06 pm

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/miscellaneous/story/2008/05/080518_baat_se_baat_rr.shtml

    For those who can read Urdu I paste Wusat’s article from BBC/Urdu above. Please do read it.

    I wonder if one naan wasn’t selling for 10 rupees today, if rice weren’t selling for 120 ruppes/kg, if people had electricity, if they had water and if so, it was clean for consumption, if they could afford to send their kids to school, if Pakistan was not a police state, and if people weren’t getting robbed so easily in the middle of the day, then would we see normal lower middle class Karachiites standing in a circle watching 3 young men burned alive.

  71. Daud says:
    May 18th, 2008 1:07 pm

    I have a quick question. Really don’t know.

    What has the gobt reaction been to this ? Either Musharraf or Gillani or Zardari or Nawaz…. Has anyone said anything anyone done anything?

    Or are they too busy in their games of musical chairs.

  72. Fahim says:
    May 18th, 2008 2:48 pm

    Looks like Pakistan is joining a phenom common elsewhere like Latin America, and also India (I remember recent article about how a thief was dragged on a bike by a mob-including some policemen)! In India suspected Maoists have also been lynched according to an article I came acroos by local officials. This kind of behavior undercuts rule of law;but, in corrupt countries is bound to happen sooner or later.

  73. George Bush says:
    May 18th, 2008 3:56 pm

    No judicial system in the world in perfect, but then again no judicial system that cannot deliver justice should be recognized, the pakistani judicial system is a joke, the courts have been closed, the police are easily bribed ( I have done so myself for speeding, and once just because we were at the wrong place at the wrong time). What do you expect the citizens of a democracy to do when its own chosen government cannot provide the basic civil services that they were voted in to power to do so? If the rest of the pakistani population doesn’t care, then neither should the government. Theives beware!!

  74. Eidee Man says:
    May 18th, 2008 6:00 pm

    “But then again, if I put myself in Akbar

  75. John Doe says:
    May 18th, 2008 10:26 pm

    People who do not know the violence are writing against this. The three hours under which the guy’s family remained hostage know that better. It is difficult to justify the killing by buring, but they deserved to be killed.

    This seems to be the only solution for the crimes in Karachi. I am now hopeful about my city.

  76. SJH says:
    May 18th, 2008 11:12 pm

    Commenting on this horrifying story as well as the next one on Nehr Waaley Pul Tey … we need to continuously remind ourselves that whether we like it or not, with the passage of time we become the stories that we tell of ourselves and of others. The stories and images we portray about a society tend to, with repetition, influence that society itself. As difficult as it may be, we need to keep reminding ourselves that vigilante justice in Pakistan is not the norm, that the vast majority of people are living lives of mundane pleasures – with stress no doubt – but they cope. Commentators need to be aware of their responsibility (as you obviously are) to shape the story and build positive myths.

  77. Niaz says:
    May 19th, 2008 1:31 am

    Today morning a friend of mine narrated a story that on Sunday when he was passing by that he had to stop to see the crowd being mounted. Actually a few cops were checking motorbikes, a cop forced a motorbike rider, after clearing him from all checking, to get him a cold drink as it was too hot there! The man blew up and started calling names to the cops who then sought pardon from him! Shall we laugh?

    Interesting to learn that our peoples have started gaining some sense of civil rights but still it pains to see “AN HUMAN” being burnt! Those who are in favour of it shall be assured that there are thousands reason to justify that horrible action but still crime will remain crime.

    Fristly, these robbers should have been handed over to the Police, even if they are to kill then why burning? Could they have not died through bullets or some other means? They even could have been hanged if people were to teach lesson to the other robbers. Regretfully our Islam does not permit this act, it teaches even to care when Animals are slaughtered that they should not feel been slaughtered!

  78. Pakvestor says:
    May 19th, 2008 2:17 am

    This is a small opinion expresed by an average karachiite.

    I feel that the issue is so complex that one must disect the issue into seperate “compartments” (if that can be done). The first issue is whether vigilantism can and should be tolerated in a society. One must realize that justice is an absolute necessity in any society. It is what differentiates a society from the “rule of the jungle”. Is vigilantiism wrong? ABSOLUTELY. Is what “the mob” did wrong? I DON’T THINK SO. Why? because I believe it is the police that is responsible for such actions. It has been the quiet “spectatorship” of the police that has brought the situation to such a desperate leel that an average citizen of Karachi has no other choice but to fight back. And the irony is that now the police is pulling its act together and apprehending “the mob”. Why are they not able to pull their act together to curtail these elements in the first place. You say we should apprehend the culprits and put them behind bars. They simply get out through bribery or bail. Hence, in my opnion whilst vigilantiism is BAD for society, it is not the society that must be blamed but the jusice system, all the elements of the justice system (The police, the lawyers, the judges, etc) that should be held accountable for the degeneration of the society to such a level.

    The other compartmentalization that we need to do is whether the sentence that has been passed own on the deceased was actually deserving. Would we have felt better if the deceased were simply beaten to death, or simply beaten severly, or something less unfortunate. Well, as per our own islamic laws, their hands should have ben cut off. Maybe that would have been a better solution. Well, maybe we need to see the punishment in light of the crime. Was their crime, petty theft or was it terrorism. Well for someone, who has been closely associated with an act of crime (as a victim), I can assure you that their acts of petty theft is nothing less than an act of terrorism. What should be the crime for terrorism (even if it is at a much lesser scale than what the term terrorism conjures up in our minds). So was the burning justified. Maybe not. Maybe we should have simply stoned it to death.

    As a recent wannabe economist, I enjoy analysing things from a “FREAKONOMICS” perspective. For criminal to stop crime, the negative need to outweigh the positives of the job. The positives are obvious, money. The negatives is a function of the probability of being caught and the punishment (if caught). As both the elements were practically non existent in our justice system, crime flourished. Hence recent turn of events have increased the valu of both the factors. Whether it is justified or not, it does put the message across, THIEVES BEWARE.

  79. Ayaz Siddiqui says:
    May 19th, 2008 2:28 am

    @Pakvestor

    thanks for views that make sense

  80. Janeeta says:
    May 19th, 2008 2:34 am

    Another incident of this type happened on Saturday and on my way back home unfortunately i did witness some part of it … that was gross, shocking and the most sad part people actually enjoy doing all this i simply cant forget the excitement on some faces over what was happening … Allah knows better where this country is heading …. i agree that these robbers deserve severe punishments but burning someone is simply out of question … being a muslim we have been taught that even in wars a muslim is not allowed to mutilate the bodies of biggest enemies …… I’m surprised what happened to our government i havent seen a single statement by any of the so called democratic leaders …. no suspension orders no reaction … it seems that they have been so occupied with judiciary and the power game that they dont care what a common citizen is going through …..

    i think the provincial government should now wake up and bring the necessary changes in the system so as to control the law n order situation in this part of country and give some relief to already problem stricken citizens

  81. Haris Siddiqi says:
    May 19th, 2008 4:04 am

    What a shame. The images are horrific to say the least. People who are condoning this mob mentality must realize that if this behavior becomes a norm in the society then the justice system will never be strengthened, no matter how hard you try.

    If you condone this behavior then you are rolling down a slippery slope. How long before someone falsely accuses someone in broad daylight and the mob performs it’s “duties”? How long before it is you being accused? Try to imagine yourselves in that position. I bet the image will send chills down your spine.

  82. Murtaza says:
    May 19th, 2008 5:21 am

    “I genuinely am sorry that you should have such pathetic views.”

    @ Eidee man: I wonder if you would have the same views if it was your family, your children held at gunpoint and your wife and daughter ‘misbehaved’ instead of Akbar’s.

    You’re entitled to your opinion and I respect that.

  83. Uxair Tahir says:
    May 19th, 2008 5:41 am

    Those were also robbers who were converted into good ppl by Sheikh Abdul Qadir Gillani by his truth.I mean giving robbers death like this depicts the mental condition of dat thousand ppl and no doubt dis condition is da gift of our judicial system.
    I am afraid dis would become culture and death like this fate of every robber.

  84. Saleem says:
    May 19th, 2008 6:15 am

    I find the words of those trying to justify the brutality as horrendous as the actions of those who commuted this act.

  85. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    May 19th, 2008 7:40 am

    @ The self-proclaimed elite give lessons of morality
    but can not reply, as usual, to simple questions put by
    Hoshmand commentators in such disasterous situation.

    If Islamic Shariat would have been in rigour, there
    was 85% chances that the crime would ‘nt have
    taken place and consequently, taking law in your own
    hands and punishing unIslamically.

    Embarassement for Islamophobes anti-Shariat, all your
    efforts never brought even 0.2% minus in criminality.

    Its hightime Pakistanis should decide and act. Laws
    must be changed and respected.

  86. Urooj says:
    May 19th, 2008 8:13 am

    This is what being a Pakistani means today. It’s sad but true. The same people who claim they love the Prophet Muhammad, may my parents be his ransom, and burn buildings and kill people, should remember how sensitive our Prophet really was, and how much love and compassion he had. It was ultimately this which won the hearts and minds of people.

    I’m actually ashamed to be called a Pakistani, and more ashamed to call these people my “muslim brothers”.

  87. May 19th, 2008 8:46 am

    seems enlightenment and moderation agenda of Pakistani lefts didn’t actually bring any enlightenment in the country.

  88. Tina says:
    May 19th, 2008 9:16 am

    Petty criminals being destroyed by street justice while big criminals run amok unhindered and enjoy respectability.

    Nothing new in this.

    Now if those three lying there had been born into the right families, they could pillage, point guns at people, and “misbehave” with women with impunity. Especially poorer people and poorer women.

    In a virtually lawless country, money puts you above the little law there is–you can’t blame these young fellows for trying to get some, when in this society it’s literally all that matters.

  89. Aqil Sajjad says:
    May 19th, 2008 9:17 am

    Very disturbing indeed and it needs to be stopped before we drift into complete anarchy.

    A consequence of the failure of our police and judiciary.

    And as some supreme court judges tried to improve things, the whole higher judiciary got demolished, only to keep Musharraf in power.

    proper restoration of the judiciary not in sight.

    Police reforms not in sight.

    A genuine reform package for the lower judiciary not in sight.

    Message from the Musharraf-PPP alliance to the people: no independent judiciary that tries to dispense justice.

    They have no fear of being robbed due to high security. They have the NRO to prevent their power and loot while the ordinary citizen has nothing, even where he is a victim.

    Extreme anger, helplessness and frustration.

    A food crisis. An energy crisis in peak summer. The rupee in free fall. The economy headed for a worse hit.

    More anger and frustration.

    the ingredients of anarchy.

    If we care about prevention, we must make sure there is justice. Start by restoring the pre-Nov 3 judiciary. All Pakistanis should join the movement. Next step: demand a package for reforming the lower judiciary and police and pressurize the govt for its proper implementation.

    For the economy, prepare for belt tightening. Can’t afford to live beyond our means.

  90. Saleem says:
    May 19th, 2008 10:35 am

    No Mr Adnan, this proves that the Islamization attempts of mullahs have turned everyone to believe that they can themselves bring “Allahs justice” which is what these people were trying to do.

  91. Ahmed says:
    May 20th, 2008 3:09 am

    Salams:
    Sham on all those who burnt those people. Islams teaches love, peace, respect and patience. Though we all know about our Justice system but still burning like that indicates one involve burning and beating are ANIMAL, actually worse than animal. Prophet Mohammad PBUH; a lady through Garbage on him daily, but Prophet never once showed anger to her. If you are really true Muslims than go after the system, govt and look at your self First. May Allah fergive those who brought this brotality.

  92. Ahmed says:
    May 20th, 2008 3:18 am

    Reply to Murtaza:
    I respect your feelings. Yes, I would have been exremly mad. But, these theif made of your Govt to who you happly give votes.
    If you beleive that these thief should have been burnt, than you should do some thing about your MNA, MPA and PM, President who have been looting, steeling and destroying Pakistan. Do some about that, just killing these two or three would not do anything.
    We all know what previous govt has done to our country, but you still went on and gave them votes.
    Look at the root of the problem.

  93. Sayed Zeeshan says:
    May 20th, 2008 3:51 am

    This is a classic example of “ends justifying means”.

    I am not surprised, though immensely disgusted, at this incident.

    Our society is used to justifying slaughter of innocent people on a daily basis. This is a less severe case as the victims were guilty of a crime, our society could easily stomach that.

  94. May 20th, 2008 3:55 am

    Ahmad, this is not good assumption to assume every Pakistani a Muslim. The way guy is dancing in background, he seems to be inclined more towards liberal lefts rather than some religious zealot.

  95. ASHRAF says:
    May 20th, 2008 6:02 am

    The pettiness of some of the comments is appalling.

    Why do we have to highjack and spin everything around our petty agendas by using slogans such as “religious” or “liberals” or whatever. Fact is that unless someone has devine powers and consider themselves God they have no way of knowing from a picture whether someone is religious or liberal or whatever other label you want to give them. What we do know is that they are Pakistanis, like you and me.We should seriously worry about what these people are doing to us and our country instead of taking our childish politics and trying to spin it here like Fox News anchors!

  96. Fauzia says:
    May 20th, 2008 6:12 am

    The reason why this happens is evident in many of the comments here and the way some people are turning into into a silly grudge match by shouting at each other on irrelevant things. Something as serious and depressing as this and we even find a way to score cheap political points with this. Shame on us. Shame on us. Shame on us.

  97. Muhammad Hafeez says:
    May 20th, 2008 6:28 am

    I can only pray for everyone involved. The robbers, the police who did nothing. Those who burnt them. Those who looked on. And all of us who can only throw slogans at this. May we all be granted more wisdom than we have demonstrated till now!

  98. Tahseen Alam Khan says:
    May 20th, 2008 7:10 am

    I am no more proud of being Pakistani because America is has challanged our National Integrity so many times and we are helpless. Pakistan is in real danger but people sitting at the helm of the affairs are not slightly bothered. May Allah Save Pakistan Amin.

  99. Tina says:
    May 20th, 2008 8:49 am

    you are all right, but we can be thankful that nobody on this blog has dragged in the ethnic minority issue–not yet anyway…

  100. yaseen ayaz says:
    May 20th, 2008 10:49 am

    begining with the name of ALLAH who is most merciful and kind,
    and he is the ALLAH who says “MY MERCY OVERPWER MY ANGER”

    that what ever has been done is worst and grievefull
    but the man Querry is why these kind of tragidies take placein our societ espacily now a days in Pkistan and in the World,
    and the 2nd Querry is why the innocent people resort to the evil way?
    the anwer is that the people had been, have been away from their religion, they have lackness of know abut their’s religios teaching, and the Govt must/shall adop ISLAMIC policies
    if Govt doesn’t then it would be rare like this tragic one occurance
    I would like to quote 2nd Caliph’s saying”THE ALLAH GAVE RESPECT THE MUSLIMS’ THROUGH ISLAM AND IF THEY SEEK RESPECT IN OTHER THEN ISLAM THEY WILL BE DESTROYED”

    Wassalm

  101. Hassan says:
    May 20th, 2008 11:33 am

    To get away from the narra baazi, here are a few things that need to be done:

    1. President and Prime Minister should immeditaely make prominent statements maybe even address on TV to condemn this shameful incident and announce how they will deal with it.

    2. Karachi police should visibly increase its visibility and performance and take steps to restore public confidence. Visible crackdown on crime in Karachi would be a necessary step.

    3. COmmunity members who set these people on fire as well as standers by should be punished according to law and clear statement made that people will NOT be allowed to take law into their own hand, no matter what there excuse.

  102. Hassan says:
    May 20th, 2008 1:05 pm

    Boy. You guys actually get read. Just saw that today’s The News has a selection from the comments on this topic from Pakistaniat on their op-ed page. Well done.

    http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=113532

  103. Uzair says:
    May 22nd, 2008 7:09 am

    The people who have done this belong to the masses and we are very well aware of the fact that masses in Pakistan are illiterate. They won’t learn any lesson from this discussion. Please try to convince the men on road that these incidents are undesirable. Try talking to people in your neighbourhoods and spread this message.

  104. Hassan says:
    May 22nd, 2008 11:38 am

    Can anyone please update on what has happened since the incident?

    Has anyone been arrested or punished?

    I am afraid that in a few days everyone and the media has forgotten about this and people will go without any lessons and that will only encourage more killing

  105. Omair says:
    May 22nd, 2008 10:49 pm

    Those robbers got what they deserved.

    If you set out to do something illegal, immoral, unjust and just plain wrong, then expect consequences.

    My 0.02 takas.

  106. Kazim Hussain says:
    May 23rd, 2008 1:04 pm

    This is horrible. I would laos like to know what happened afterwards. Who was punished and how. Please do a followup.

  107. Atif Agha says:
    May 23rd, 2008 4:54 pm

    bone chilling.. purely frightening, “Mere Allah”.
    It truely brings tears to my eyes for everybody.
    One can only wonder what the psychology of that crowd is, what were they really thinking. where were they wondering when they were seeing those live bodies burned in front of their kids, mothers, wives and parents. I bet nobody in that community talked about it for days. Oo mere Allah.
    Also the people in the crowd, what have they gone through, what kind of torture, pain and agony have they gone through to be come so twisted, so insensitive and so violent.
    When soldiers do it in wars, you can close your ears & eyes, when people do it on the streets.. you can not do anything.
    On the other hand you watch FBR minister dancing with musharraf on a theme and you wonder.. We all have been desensitised, some from the mere pain and agony and others intoxicated from sheer unstoppable expanding power & wealth. Mazloom or Zalim donon apnee jagah madhosh hain……

    “Allah apna rehm kar”.. Allah hum per rehm kar.. Allah hum insanon per rehm kar.. Allah hum sub per apna rehm kar.

  108. Fakhar says:
    May 24th, 2008 2:51 am

    Aggression Everywhere……

    Zulm Phir Zulm Hai

  109. Fakhar says:
    May 24th, 2008 3:01 am

    If we want Pakistan then:

    We should keep all our businesses aside, and the top most priority should be –Justice
    and — Welfare, Welfare, Welfare

    the only way to keep Pakistan ALIVE, and INTACT.

  110. shahid khan says:
    May 24th, 2008 6:26 pm

    try to understand and put yourself in place of these frustrated people,i really understand when i will think if these rubbers come to my house and put guns on my family,i am not justifying these acts,but we have to think that why these people became so cruel ?ALLAH AKBER

  111. Peace says:
    May 30th, 2008 7:25 pm

    This is sick! to the poster ‘Omair’, What do you think our prophet saw would have done. Do you think he would have burnt these people alive? I think not!! Of course the robbers did wrong but death for stealing something? They did not take anyones life so whoever killed them is a murderer!!
    Pakistan is in a sorry state. It has sold its soul to the devil.

    May Allah help us all…ameen!

  112. Aisha says:
    July 10th, 2008 6:16 pm

    It is a sad time when people put more value on personal possessions than on a human life…but this is nothing new to our violent world? This was not a life for a life…though they did shoot and injure a man who could have died. People will often times resort to such extremes as taking matters into their own hands out of frustration and aggravation when they feel that the laws and enforcement aren’t protecting them.

    Why did this get so out of hand? Once they were captured why were they not detained until the police arrived to arrest them? How many stood by while some were pouring petro on these individuals? No one thought that this was taking it a bit far? No thought to speak out loudly and condemn this public trial and execution? Or did some try to speak out? In my heart and for the sake of mankind I certainly hope so else this mass public display of unjust justice links us closer to animals than to the human race. Allah Help Us.

  113. thalia says:
    July 21st, 2008 8:51 am

    this is bad but they need it for be bad thanks!!

  114. Gouhar Nayab says:
    August 13th, 2008 3:35 am

    “Let us not let the actions of those who are compelled to do bad things force us to loose our inherent goodness and human decency.”

    God forbid Has anyone in your friends and relative got shot just for mobile worth couple of thousand rupees…

    Me and my family went through the early morning robbery not once but twice….

    I s suppose you don’t have any idea what it is like when they come…and how it is feel like when your every thing you have go in front of your eyes……….

    Why don’t you have pictures of peoples who get killed in robbery……….

    human decency?

  115. Constantine says:
    December 24th, 2008 10:18 pm

    No, this was not heroic. But vigilantism is not meant to be heroic. Do you think there will be as many crimes in that area? Probably not. It is a shame the criminals weren’t tortured more by the mob.

  116. Watan Aziz says:
    December 24th, 2008 11:39 pm

    Absence of justice, creates lawlessness, leads to discord.

    The street justice prevails amongst people and nations when they believe that by going to a higher authority is not a path justice nor satisfaction. They take law and order in their own hand, and thus cause a breakdown of the civil norms that govern societies and nations.

    When people or nations do not believe in the institutions of justice, or worst, perceive that those who are supposed to uphold justice are themselves with scruples and hold contrarian motives; their faith in them is on a sliding scale.

    Such are the conditions in Pakistan today. Such are the conditions in South Asia today. From Sri Lanka to Nepal, from Afghanistan to Burma, the whole region is in turmoil. National and international institutions do not enjoy the confidence of the people.

    All of this did not happen overnight and it will not fix in one day either. It will require a collective and comprehensive and compassionate approach.

    But speak the truth we must, and uphold righteous conduct we should, which is universal in its language and understanding and does not require translations or treaties. It is very simple;

  117. muslim says:
    December 29th, 2008 9:10 am

    ye jooo loog kisi insaan ko jaltaa howaa dekh rahey hein ye musalman hein in k saath bhi ye hona chaaye .
    mobil cheene waloon ko goli mar detey ya dandoon se maar detey magar kisi insan ko zinda jalana …………. or phir os ko mazey se dekhna ….
    zulmana harkat hai.
    or in sab k saath bhi ye hi hooo ga…………!

  118. mr.rob says:
    February 10th, 2009 4:42 am

    I last fought physically on the night of my twenty first birthday, 11 years ago, in a nightclub as a result of some unruly behaviour and a spilled beer. I finished the night with an egg on my eye, ripped clothes and taken out of the club. I decided that night that, if possible, any situation that I can, I will deal with by using my other gifts – intelligent, assertive speech, patience, empathy etc.

    Two years ago, a friend of mine had an arguement with a young man. As my friend and me left in order to remove ourselves from the situation, the other man slashed me across the face with a knife and left me with a seven inch scar from my ear to my lip. I was stitched at the hospital and then I had to heal mentally. I made up my mind quickly that I would not hate my attacker and I forgave him and thought about what sort of life he has had and will have. I was still upset but I decided that I would not seek revenge by myself. Different friends asked me if we should go and look for the man – I am sure we could have found him and dealt him some, ‘community justice’, but I brushed these offers to the side. The Police did not solve anything. It is two years on and I am able to move on with my life and I hope my attacker is in a better state of mind than he clearly was on that day.

    I don’t know what inspires people to do bad things in the first place; to rob, to attack etc. However, I know that I feel better for not reacting to violence with violence.

  119. Bronson says:
    March 19th, 2009 10:23 am

    I’ll bet that’s a much safer neighborhood now. :)

  120. Bronson says:
    March 19th, 2009 10:33 am

    In reply to Mr.Rob.. you can’t really compare your bar brawls with this response to an epidemic of violent crimes. These people aren’t inviting the crimes by trying to have a household. And sorry, but there’s always a risk of fights in a pub, where alcohol is being served. Not that you’re inviting it, but it’s a risk and also a choice that you have so much more control over. Tell me that you’d feel like turning the other cheek if you came home to a ransacked house, raped wife, dead son or any of these things that have happen to people here. And then tell me that you wouldn’t want to seek your own justice if you had no protection from the police and courts. If you can honestly say you would forgive, you are either a saint or very foolishly holding onto a flawed pacifist ideal.

  121. Muhammad Yaseen says:
    March 29th, 2009 3:52 am

    Dear brothers, if some kill any one,the punishment of killing can’t be burned alive even you can’t burn animinal of any kind in islamic values, thouse who involved in this burning alive these person inculded pakistani goverment and police should be answered by Allah S.W.A on day of jugment, punishment of burning is only power of Allah S.W.A in the hell, no one even Prophets are not allow to burn an animal how can a person can be.

  122. Justiceyes says:
    April 16th, 2009 1:50 am

    Looks like they got what they deserved. If they held my children at gunpoint I would have killed them as well. Evil people should be punished. Do wrong and you will pay.

  123. Gran Torino says:
    August 31st, 2009 4:41 am

    Ah, the sweet smell of justice!
    They got what they deserved, when the police and the courts are nothing but rubbish this is the only alternative left to the honest people….so bad…but justice is justice. Let’s not start talking about “human rights” and other BS trying to pity the scums who died, only those who have lived through the fear of being victims of scumbag criminals can understand.
    Congratulations to these brave citizens.

  124. Anonymous says:
    October 15th, 2009 8:37 am

    They got what they deserved, in my opinion. They made the choice, and had to live (or die) by the concequences of that choice.People die every day so what is a couple more added to the bill.
    If those men were caught by the authorities and held on trial and then released there would have been every possibility that they would do it again. Perhaps robbing or even murder. They got a little taste of it and once you get the taste it is very hard to wash the taste away.

  125. Jen says:
    December 21st, 2009 5:00 am

    I’m sorry to disagree but this is terrible.

    I AGREE 100% they did’t diserve to be let off the hook, but burning someone alive is NOT the answer!! Someone bad gets off easy by dieing, rotting in prison and then in hell is much better and dosn’t make ANYONE feel bad along the road later on!

  126. regginluv says:
    March 24th, 2010 10:32 pm

    people say that they got what they deserved who are they to make such a statement have they never done wrong in there life,,,, and what would they get if they did something wrong a cookie most people like to see criminals brought to justice but burning them alive is not justice it is masochistic behavior and have these people that are so quick to judge ever been in a position where they had to steal something? when i was homeless i had to steal food every now and then so i wouldnt starve would you say i deserve to be burned alive for that

  127. regginluv says:
    March 24th, 2010 10:38 pm

    im not saying what they did was all right, but i say the people who are enjoying themselves looking at these pictures and simmering in there smug satisfaction are just as bad as killers themselves u didnt pull the trigger but you sure did enjoy the results

  128. Wintermute says:
    May 20th, 2010 3:44 pm

    Those men were treated to justice by the people when justice by the government would not prevail. I feel no remorse for them, their families or their acquaintances. When a government fails to protect it’s people (we are seeing that here in the USA more and more as well), the people must protect themselves. When justice is bought and sold, the people must remove the merchants who market that justice from the equation. Justice must be delivered truly blind. The rich and the poor equally, the powerful and meek equally. What we now see in our corrupt governments throughout the world (including the USA) is that justice is not delivered equally. Justice is delivered with a partiality which sickens those who are the victims.

    If justice isn’t delivered impartially by the system implemented to deliver it then this will be seen more and more. Those men took not just food and money but also dignity, respect, trust, innocence and much more from the people in that house. Their crime warranted the death penalty. Were the government delivering justice without corruption and were it delivering justice as appropriate to the criminal act, then the penalty could have been delivered in a more humane manner. Unfortunately the government is not doing so and the penalty of death was delivered in a much less humane manner.

    Focusing on the death of the criminals in this issue is not the right thing to do. Focus instead on the failure of the government to serve the people appropriately. Resolve that issue and this ceases to be something to dwell on or see again.

  129. Victoria Ann says:
    June 9th, 2010 11:20 pm

    It’s pretty scary to say the least. Mob rule is not the way to deal with these kinds of situations. What if you confused the robbers with someone who just walked by. And you killed them. Later you find you made a mistake, do you just say…”oops sorry”. I guess sharia law will make the family have equal access to kill you in some horrible way, to make up for this mistake. Come on people wake up and quit killing each other.

  130. USMAN says:
    August 21st, 2010 4:35 pm

    I guess this is the same as what happened in Sialkot. Yet, I read the comments on this and some of them worry me even more than the pictures.

  131. Raza says:
    August 21st, 2010 5:11 pm

    Dear All
    Its not even allow in Talibaan Afghanistan as a punishment .they can burst but not torched humans like that and not allowed in anywhere in the world
    we have caputured 1 doccaits out of 3 in janury 25 2010 but we just hit him cause they have injured and fire one guard nevethless we cannot imagine to do the same beside we have the Arms and Guns with Guards
    what kind of peoples are these
    Regards
    Raza

  132. zehba says:
    August 21st, 2010 5:12 pm

    The spread of violence is definitely sad and it displays the lac of trust and belief in the judicial, political and administrative setup!!
    BUT..
    One thing that needs to be condemned more than anything else is that the govt of pakistan itself has taken the law in its hands in case of lal masjid, bugti operation and missing persons!
    The agencies, army and govt are all bound by the constitution and extra judicial actions by them encourage the people to do the same!

  133. Nihari says:
    August 21st, 2010 6:40 pm

    The News

    DPO Sialkot allowed brutal killing of two brothers: Accused
    LAHORE: Shams Ali, one of the accused involved in the barbaric killing of two-brothers in Sialkot has claimed that he carried out the murders at the behest of DPO Sialkot Waqar Chauhan.

    He quoted the DPO as saying, “Go ahead and kill both them. Police will claim the responsibility of the two-brothers’ death and declare it a result of an encounter.”

    Shams Ali, one of the men involved in the ghastly act of publicly killing the two-brothers Hafiz Mughees and Muneeb Sajjad, told Geo News that his 12-year old nephew also sustained injuries as a result of firing occurred before the episode of torture on the brothers.

    The whole scene of barbarism was carried out ‘at the behest of DPO Sialkot Waqar Chauhan’, Shams claimed.

  134. Salman501 says:
    August 21st, 2010 7:37 pm

    @Zehba
    RE: “One thing that needs to be condemned more than anything else is that the govt of pakistan itself has taken the law in its hands in case of lal masjid, bugti operation and missing persons!”

    Which planet are you on. GOP is the one that enforces law. The people envolved Lal Masjid and Bugttis are the ones that were taking the law in their hands. And without a doubt deserved what happened, specially the Mullahs from the Lal Masjid. Only thing that I regret is the deaths of my brave soldiers.

  135. Ishrat ABID says:
    August 21st, 2010 10:13 pm

    WATAN KI FIKR KAR NADAAN, MUSEEBAT AANE VAALI HAI
    TERI BARBADION KAY MASHWARAY HAIN AASMANON MEIN
    YEH KHAMOSHI KAHAAN TAK, LAZZAT-E-FARYAD PAIDA KAR
    ZAMEEN PAR TOO HO AUR TERI SADA HO AASMAANON MEIN
    NA SAMJHO GAY TO MIT JAAO GAY AI PAAKISTAN VAALO
    TUMHAARI DAASTANB TAK BHI NA HO GI DAASTANON MEIN

  136. Rehana says:
    August 22nd, 2010 5:13 am

    We all are imposters.2:8-9-42-44.
    In the garb of saints we are devils.16:61.
    We spread violence in the name of correction.2:11-12.
    We ape our fore fathers in the name of religions.2:170;2:65-66.
    God’s Deen is one ie The Book of God.7:3.
    How many of us know the difference between Deen7:3 and mazhab?2:170.
    God forbids violence and murder.
    Gods’s Jihad is fought by the Quran.25:52.
    To wipe off all ills from the world.
    Remember our deeds shall be weighed by the Imam ie Quran.17:71.
    God gives examples,silitudes.29:43.
    Salat=Quran stops us from bad things(burai aur fahashi)29:45.
    God gave us Quran the first day He spread us on earth.2:38.
    Whatever is mentioned in the Quran is in the Quran not outside.3:65.4:164.7:157.14:14-36.71:28.Prophets were already mentioned in the Quran.
    Why don’t we use logic?
    run for God.51:50.
    Islam is peace so whosoever brings it is a muslim.

  137. Ghufran says:
    August 23rd, 2010 10:32 pm

    What a horrible event. Even worse than Sialkot. And read the comments. Cannot believe that anyone would think like this.

  138. Aftab says:
    November 20th, 2010 10:11 am

    Well…. although its barbaric but..see to whom its done.. those son of bitc** deserved something even harsh..let it be a lesson to those like them who barge into peoples homes..beating looting and killing innocent people living there..its far different from a theft.. a robbery is brutal.. they deserved it.. Die you sobs..

  139. Max says:
    December 7th, 2010 5:33 am

    Aftab, if you think cruelty is past upon individuals differently depending on “SEE TO WHOM ITS DONE” Then your no different than those barbaric “mobs”.

    Try to think if this is done to you? What would you do? If you’ve just robbed someone, injured them, stole some jewelries. And your in their shoes! Think!…. Do you want/DESERVE to be burned alive? I think you’ll change the way you think by then. Because your not them. So keep your idiotic comments to yourself.

  140. saif says:
    January 18th, 2011 1:31 pm

    Max You Idiot…

    I know the family, they try to rape women also, but one of them said we have no time! and now If someone touch your wife, sister or mother and tore there clothes then? will u go to police? it is horrible & wrong to burnt them but simultaneously it is also ok bcoz next time may be they rape also and destroy the whole life of a girl, could be ur cousin or relative..

  141. Khyrid says:
    April 2nd, 2011 5:25 pm

    Max is not an idiot, you are said. I doubt they tried to rape anybody. It’s far more likely that was made up to justify this execution to the world that is now looking at it. Even still a person doesn’t deserve to be burned alive for committing rape. Not to say rape isn’t a serious crime that deserves serious punishment, but the punishment should match the crime. As severe as the damage to a girls life may be from being raped it’s nothing compared to being burned alive.

  142. Sarah Farrukh says:
    April 22nd, 2011 10:30 am

    God bless Pakistan :(

  143. Ana says:
    September 4th, 2011 4:55 am

    In same states of US they do it by injection.

  144. A, Khan says:
    October 12th, 2011 8:03 am

    If the given version of events is true, then I have no sympathy for deceased culprits. In a country, where the legal system provides no recourse to justice, then I am afraid this is the only deterrent for similar events.

    So I wonder if Mr. Adil Najam would saying the same had he been in the place of Mr. Akbar and had his family threatened at gunpoint and been shot as well. Its one thing to write about it but quite another to experience it.

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