Pakistan at War: Video of Girl Flogged by Taliban in Swat. Chief Justice Takes Suo Moto Notice

Posted on April 3, 2009
Filed Under >Adil Najam, Law & Justice, Society
253 Comments
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Adil Najam

This is a VERY DISTURBING video. Please view at your own discretion.

It is important, however, that we speak about and shout out about this video.

It shows a 17-year old girl being flogged by a Taliban leader of some sort in a perverted form of justice. Reportedly the incident happened in Kalakalay, Swat around 3 months ago (before the supposed peace deal with the government). The girl is being ‘punished’ for going somewhere without a male relative. Supposedly, the male companion was also flogged.

This video is also be discussed vigorously at Pakistaniat’s new Facebook page. Some of that disussion does not carry over here, although we hope it ultimately will.

In more recent developments, supposedly Sufi Mohammad in Swat has condemned the act and said this was not Baitullah’s Taliban. More importantly, the recent reinstated Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry has taken su moto notice of this incident. According to The News

Chief Justice of Pakistan (CJP) Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry Friday took a suo motu notice of the media footage in which a 17 year old girl is being whipped out in the broad daylight in Swat. Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhdy ordered the matter to be presented before a larger bench on April 6. He also summoned Secretary Interior, IG and Chief Secretary on April 6. He ordered formation of 8-member larger bench to be headed by himself.

This is a story that all Pakistanis and all Muslims must speak about and speak against. There are those who will try to make this a story about what Pakistan or Islam is. Such bigoted approaches are to be resisted. This is not a story about what Pakistan is. This is clearly not about what Islam is. This is a story about what the enemies of Islam and enemies of Pakistan are doing. This is a story about what Pakistan must not allowed to become. The bad news is obvious in the video itself. The bad news is about the criminality being conducted in the name of religion. The good news is that the media, the judiciary and ordinary Pakistanis ARE speaking up and speaking out. We must do more so. For if we do not speak out against this criminality, who will?

253 Comments on “Pakistan at War: Video of Girl Flogged by Taliban in Swat. Chief Justice Takes Suo Moto Notice”

  1. PAKISTANI says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:27 am

    Please lets all wake up. What if this was you, your daughter? Or any human. How can people tolerate this inhumanity. Please, let us all act and not let these barbarians take over our country and our lives.

  2. mohasbah-e- nafs says:
    April 3rd, 2009 11:28 am

    Where are the long marchers? Where are the mard-e-momin? Anybody out there to save and protect the women and the girls from the na-mards?

  3. MQ says:
    April 3rd, 2009 11:41 am

    Just as we begin to think we have seen the worst possible in our society, we are confronted with new images, more inhuman, more repulsive and more sickening than before. My heart goes out to this young woman, held down by three men, face down, and a fourth flogging her. While the hapless woman cries and wriggles in pain, dozens of men (Pushtoons!) watch the

  4. Aamer says:
    April 3rd, 2009 11:50 am

    BBC reports that the alleged man came to work as an electrician and was accused by girl’s family. Both were later forced to get married.

    Whatever the case may be. UNACCEPTABLE

  5. mohasbah-e- nafs says:
    April 3rd, 2009 11:51 am

    It is time for the Pakistani women and girls to get trained to defend themselves against the ‘musalmaan’ na-mards. If your fathers and brothers are jahil wimps to protect you from the eunichs, then you take up arms against these scum bags.

    Do not rely on the CJ or any one else to come to your defense. They are all busy in self preservation and don’t give a damn about you.

  6. Shabana says:
    April 3rd, 2009 11:57 am

    This is truly disgusting. How can we organize to ensure our protest is heard.
    Munawar Hasan is clearly an idiot.

    These people are women-haters. The people involved in this should be exiled. To an appropriate place.

  7. April 3rd, 2009 12:11 pm

    FAKE video …!!

  8. MQ says:
    April 3rd, 2009 12:13 pm

    I think, Asma Jahangir has echoed it best: These lashes were not inflicted on the back of this young woman alone, but on the back of all women and men of Pakistan.

  9. Qausain says:
    April 3rd, 2009 12:17 pm

    new link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qy6vIua3Gc

    koi is ki translation bhi kar day kay kia kah rahay hain ye log :/

  10. Javaid Aziz says:
    April 3rd, 2009 12:19 pm

    It is deplorable. Why have people forgotten the women buried alive in Baluchistan? The deed “doers” were well connected and one sits in the Cabinet!
    Both incidents need justice.

  11. mohasbah-e- nafs says:
    April 3rd, 2009 12:21 pm

    The lashes were inflicted on Pakistan by the hypocrites who opposed its creation. The demonic JI and there off shoots are Allah’s curse on this nation, which allowed the cancer to spread.

  12. Neena says:
    April 3rd, 2009 12:27 pm

    Ironic, I’m not surprised a bit- they kill our woman leader, kill civilians, kill police, kill army jawans, use arms to harass kids, burn girls schools and our powerless government and shameless Army make deals with them.

    I never seen these Mullhas to die of shame when kids are sexually abused in madrassas, when kids beg and work to take care of their families but their manhood is challenged
    when adult girl or women try to make a living to feed her kids.

    I’m quite happy Chief Justice taking note and now I’m waiting when he give punishment to those who burned girls schools and declare Shariat Law deal illegal on grounds federal laws supersedes all local laws.

    Mohasbah-e- nafs and Shabana

    Remember how most longmarchers leaders supported Zia’s Islam this monter is created by JI-ite, they don’t even have guts to take the blame. There are so many haters

  13. Obaid says:
    April 3rd, 2009 12:29 pm
  14. April 3rd, 2009 12:31 pm

    NEW TEXT HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE POST.

  15. Amina says:
    April 3rd, 2009 12:42 pm

    Well if this incident does not make our rulers sit up straight, I don’t know what will! Where will it be next, Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi? If these are the guys we are making ‘peace’ with, who are we supposed to be fighting ?

  16. ASMA says:
    April 3rd, 2009 12:44 pm

    Thank you Dr. Najam for posting this video. It is disgusting but this is what we are all fighting against. This is not only the attack on one girl, it is an attack on all women, all of Pakistan and in fact an attack on Islam.

    These are disgusting criminals who should be treated like disgusting criminals.

    I am glad the CJ is taking action. The media is also full of this story and with people like you and Pakistaniat also joining their civil society voices at least we are all speaking up on this. That is what is needed. No one can remain silent on this.

  17. Iqbal says:
    April 3rd, 2009 12:53 pm

    It is shameful, yes, but deplorably not shocking if you have been paying attention. I mean what else do we expect after ceding control of swat and legitimizing taliban’s pseudo-judicial system?

    The funny touch to the story is provided by “cheef justice sahib” who is summoning the usual bureaucratic critters to gain cheap publicity and but neither the “ameer” a.k.a Fazlullah nor his sufi FIL, where the actual responsibility lies. Summoning them would have been made a lot of sense if the intent was deliverance of justice but I guess accountability was not mentioned in the current “peace agreement”, and besides it would have made the cheef sahib unpopular among mulanas…..not a very wise thing to do.

    If we have any common sense at any level in the Pak govt, this image of bearded mullahs flogging a teenage girl must be utilized to awaken/invoke the public against the dangers of talibans. This should be shown every hour on the tv and in every newspaper until it is associated in every viewer’s mind with talibans’s justice system. But I think I am assuming too much competence from the govt.

  18. faraz says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:15 pm

    If we dont do anything these bully mullah will terrorize all our sisters and daughters.

    After Police acedemy attack and this we should wake up. I am already seeing “wind of change” in Paki media.

    We should dump Taliban defenders like Imran Khan, Qazi, Hamid Mir and Hamid gul. Lahoris should write letter to Nawaz to adopt a harder stance on Taliban rather a soft stance.

    It is time to wakeup otherwise all our sisters, daughters, wifes will share this fate.

  19. SAFDAR ALI says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:18 pm

    SOME QUESTIONS FROM SAMAR MINULLAH, AND OUR MEDIA WHO EXPOSED THIS VIDEO

    Q1
    DR AFFIA SIDDIQUE KIDNAPPED BY OUR INTELLIGENCE AGNECIES, HANDED OVER TO AMERCIA, ACCORDING TO MUZZAM BAIG

  20. TariqKhan says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:18 pm

    today i am ashamed to call myself a pakistani for the first time ever not even in 65 0r after the fall of dacca have i felt like this i am so despondent that i cannot even expect any help from the recently restored CJ or the brave men of the pak forces or the democratically elected president of pakistan or our friends outside pakistan

  21. Murtuza S says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:29 pm

    Taliban has been around for so long, long time back only they brought the law and order to Afghanistan. In fact they were opposed to opium harvest when other secular parties and army was supporting it. It is only with their effort was there peace for some time before USA removed them forcefully.

    Taliban was around for so long, why such videos only appear now? Why attacks on policemen, cricketers etc happen only now? Years ago there were no such videos circulated. Why is this, all of a sudden such videos?

    This is the work of foreign intelligence agency making such videos and spreading it to the people. One can make out the acting in the video and also the whip itself is not seen properly, why is this? The foreign intelligence has duped us by creating incident after incident like cricketer attack. Years ago Taliban never bothered with cricketers, why suddenly change? We should wake up and DEFEND PAKISTAN from the real enemies.

    Also even if this flogging was real who are all to comment without knowing the crime committed? What is worse for the society, severe immoral indecent behavior like they have in USA in the young, or one incident of 2 minute flogging?

    Let us think before we blame Taliban.

  22. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:35 pm

    Another lame attempt by anti Shariah guys to screw up deal in SWAT

  23. Taha says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:36 pm

    Mr.Murtuza S. Are you fool. These Brave men are accepting what that dud to this helpless women and you are blaming foreign countries. How you will feel if that girl was your relative. Islam has never faced these kind of barbarism this only the act of these uneducated rascals are doing. You are the kind of people I feel shame for as being Pakistani. They are not even a human rather then a Muslim.

  24. April 3rd, 2009 1:41 pm

    Here is a verse straight from the Quran:

    (from http://www.jannah.org/qurantrans/quran24.html)
    024.002 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

    The lashes being meted out, no compassion in the hearts and faces of people, and the momineen standing around watching: looks like a scene straight from the Quran!

    Now, the woman wasn’t accused of rape, so these verses don’t exactly apply to her, but we know how easy it is to twist and turn such verses and use them for your own version of justice. EVEN IF she had committed adultery, how many of you would be OKAY with such a punishment? I know for the life of me that I wouldn’t. I am repulsed to my very core with this barbarism.

    I know most muslims are decent people, but please realize that Islam (like Christianity and Judaism, and perhaps other religions too) isn’t a decent religion. It contains great and humanistic teachings sprinkled with such utter barbarism. Lets not cherry pick verses from our religion and stop pretending that such barbarism is totally unwarranted according to Islamic teachings.

  25. faraz says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:43 pm

    Adnan Siddiqui! This is real problem. When our Mullah tell us “green fields” of Sharia; the silver bullet which can solve their all problems of existenze in all infinite lifes “THIS IS ACTUAL THEY ARE BUYING”.

    Either reform this religion or don’t talk about applying barbaric Sharia anywhere!

  26. sakina says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:49 pm

    These cursed wimps can only vent their frustrations out on 17 year old help less girls. Similar flogging should be meted out to the taliban and sharia law supporter and their women folk. Sharia law after all supports an eye for an eye …

  27. Taha says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:49 pm

    By the way what kind of shariah is this. humiliating a 17 years old girl in front of 100 men did it was teaching of Islam. They are truly translating the meaning of Islam(peace). Shame on any person or Muslim who is defending this shameless act by these barbarians.

  28. Neena says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:50 pm

    Adnan you siad Another lame attempt by anti Shariah guys to screw up deal in SWAT

    Surely and Gen Zia was also an agent of west who championed such punishments.

  29. jalal HB says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:54 pm

    The video being shown on internet about flogging of a 17 years old girl by the hands of Taliban in Swat for moving out of her house without a male companion “Mehram” should be the most disgusting news of the century. No where in the Quran is listed a flogging punishment for a woman who moves out of her house without a Mehram.

    The act clearly shows that those implementing the punishment are either ignorance of the teachings of the most noblest of the religons but have also no regard for the weak and unprotected. The gory incident makes me believe the very religion of these so-called Muslims – I am very sure that these Taliban are playing a big game backed by those outside powers who want to create scare and unrest in the country and finding an excuse to march into Pakistan to save our A-assets from falling into the hands of such fenatics – duly supported and funded by them.

    While condemning the most inhuman act, I also blame the residents of Swat, who saw the flogging and did nothing to save the poor girl from the hands of bandits and mercenaries hired by enemies of Pakistan. Those who have sinned whould be punished, but the onlookers should also live a life of shame for having witnessed a barbaric incident and did not inch forward to save the poor and the weak from the wolves and barbarians.

  30. Sufi Muhammad of TNSM says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:57 pm

    debate on past happenings is disallowed in Islam…… a Muslim should not discuss past happenings because he may not remember [know] all the [details] and, therefore, he may

  31. Neena says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:58 pm

    Religion has different meaning to everyone even in Bible there is flogging since that was the OK then. There should be justice system according to present time and acceptable to all sections of society.

    What have our JI has to say abour it all?

    The leader of Pakistan’s main Islamist party, the Jamaat-e-Islami, played down the incident.

    ‘It’s a small thing. We should talk about drone attacks, not minor things,’ said Munawar Hassan, referring to attacks on suspected militants by pilotless US aircraft that have angered many Pakistanis. Source

  32. Taha says:
    April 3rd, 2009 1:59 pm

    I will gladly kill as many as possible these so called man or Muslims.

  33. Calculating_Misfit says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:06 pm

    @Murtaza S
    “Taliban was around for so long, why such videos only appear now?”

    This is nothing new. Numerous such atrocities have occured in the past.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l99sN6QeULA&feature=related

    http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm

    http://www.rawa.us/movies/zarmeena.mpg

    “Why attacks on policemen, cricketers etc happen only now?”

    Because previously Pakistan used to support the Taliban.

    “This is the work of foreign intelligence agency making such videos and spreading it to the people.”

    Yawn, more conspiracy theories.

    “Also even if this flogging was real who are all to comment without knowing the crime committed”

    Her “crime” according to the Swat Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan, said the 17-year-old was seen out of her house with a man who was not her husband, something that he described as un-Islamic.

  34. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:08 pm

    Faraz: I wonder what;s your knowledge about Shariah that you are getting hyper enough to express your point of view? I am sure the knowledge of Shariah would not be more than a Pakistani have knowledge about his own surrounding. The video was published to hyper emotionally fool Pakistanis who just seek excuses to get hyper for anything; be it about KESC crisis or ranting against Islam or Shariah.

    the video did what was it supposed to do that is to create an environment against current peace deal in SWAT and it got proved when I saw the statements by secularist goon party MQM who is whining about “women rights”. MQM and human rights sounds very weird at first place.

    Anyway,the people who were involved in this video had to work up more before exhibiting such stunts infront of public to prove their point because if it was really to make a point aginast Shariah then:

    1)the victim(the girl) should have not been able to stand up right after the flogging but the “girl” stood up as if nothing happened(does this mean she was not beaten like hell?)

    2)In Islam, only mahram could touch a woman while these men supposed to be Na-Mahram. a good attempt but they missed the “basic” of Islam hence it could not impress me at all

    3)How on earth BBC could get updates by Talibans? BBC could Interview Baitullah Mahsood but cant tell NATO guys to attack on him. BBC could grab the video of the whole stunt.

    “Dil ko Bahlana ko Ghalib ye khyal acha hay”. It would have given some “food for though” to anti-Shariah guys and excuse to babble against Shariah for few more days in drawing rooms and online and then they will get busy in their own fantasy world.

  35. mian khan says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:11 pm

    @ jalal HB:
    “No where in the Quran is listed a flogging punishment for a woman who moves out of her house without a Mehram. ”

    I would say, Where in Quran is listed reciters of Kalima Tayyab be declared Kaffir????

    jalal HB, why are you bringing Quran now???

    When Pakistanis like you agreed and decided to make your OWN definition and principle of declaring a Muslim reciter of Kalima Tayyab as Kaffir in 1974 , through 2nd constitutional ammendment, then why are you CRYING when Pakistanis are making their own principles of Islam???
    At least these Taliban/Mullah Pakistanis have beards and offer prayers and do not commit adultry/ fornication etc
    Where as those Muslims who declared Kalima reciters Kaffir drank alcohol, and committed adultry. I am talking about Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and his PPP and other members of Pakistan national assembly in 1974.!!!!!!!!!!!!

  36. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:14 pm

    While every one is pumped up after this video. I would like to bring attention of all those souls that they were hiding in bins when Musharraf’s Talibans were in action to offend Women and torture them on roads. I knew they could not raise a voice against it because it was done by a liberal and pro Secular leader.

    http://tinyurl.com/mush-taliban

  37. Taha says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:17 pm

    What about the Mr. Muslim khan acceptance of this brave act will you deny it. Open your eyes. Think of your own women will you accept this illiterate act happening to them.
    I don’t know when you will able to accept that these are our beloved illustrate Muslims who are doing these acts. So many peoples have died due to Suicide attacks. What you will say that they were done by America.
    Do not think that every one is fool. Keep with you this illiterate definition of shariah with you and practice it with your own family. We do not need this kind of shariah.
    They are not even a human. It is time that we must stand against these barbarians and kill as many as we can

  38. mian khan says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:17 pm

    Thekedars of Islam.

    @ Taha:
    “These thekedars of Islams should be hanged. This is the real face of Jamat-e-Islami.”

    Taha, are these thekedars of Islam WORSE than thekedars of islam like Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Maulanas Mufti mahmood, Abdul sittar Niazi, professor ghafoor ahmad,… and other members of Pakistan national assembly who declared reciters of kalima kaffir in 1974???

  39. Taha says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:26 pm

    Mr. mian khan. I know what kind of Muslim Taliban are. They earn their money by selling drugs. They don’t even read their names easily and gladly talk about Islam. Islam and Allah do not these kind of reciters. These mad peoples don’t now any thing except killing. They are uncivilized and illiterate barbarians who must be treated as criminals.

  40. faraz says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:27 pm

    Mr Adnan:

    We should not hijack this discussion about excess conducted by Taliban to make it debate between Sharia or Liberlism. Do you feel sorry for this girl or not? What if Taliban beat your sister for not wearing a shuttle Burqa? Will you support it or not.

    You Jamati talk about Iqbal a lot. Have you ever read “Reconstruction of religious thought in Islam”http://www.allamaiqbal.com/works/prose/english/reconstruction/”

    Dont bring MQM here. You are just trying to change to topic. There are goons in MQM but they are still light years better then Taliban. They don’ micro manage your private life.

  41. ANON says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:27 pm

    @mian khan

    Just take it easy. You don’t need validation of whether or not you are a muslim from any self proclaimed thekedar of Islam. That is only and only Allah’s jurisdiction. It does not matter what any person or entity says or thinks. You are only answerable to Allah. Peace!

  42. Abu Ali says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:27 pm

    The disgustingly distinguished Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman condoned this flogging completely, on ARY News, ‘provided it was ordered by a Nizam-e-Adl court’ !! Don’t be surprised when he is joined and supported by many comments here. For his shameful equivocation between rape and consentual sex, and, evidence and witnesses, see http://www.geo.tv/zsarch/jawabdeyhtranscript_english.asp

  43. ANON says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:33 pm

    The girl was wrongly flogged under Sufi Mohamad’s nizam-e- Adl. She was flogged about some ‘misdeed’ she did in the past. The floggers and the nazim-e-Adl committed a sin by talking about a past action and taking action on it …

    Can they be flogged ? Oh no. The flogging is already done. Lets not talk about it ..

    Great nizam-e-Adl .. lol

  44. Qaiser Yaqub says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:33 pm

    I cannot understand how anyone can defend these Taliban. These are criminals and as people have said enemies of Pakistan. This video only reminds us of who the real enemy of Pakistan are. Your earlier poll was exactly right.

    I am proud of you for putting this up (I know the type of revenge these crazy guys take) and for the Chief Justice to have taken action. The real hope in Pakistan is in voices like yours and actions like the CJ. MUST NOT LET THIS GO UNCHECKED. PLEASE.

  45. Pure Indian says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:35 pm

    Very sorry to to see this video.

    CUT OFF SAUDI ARABIAN CULTURE FROM OUR SOUTH ASIAN HERITAGE.

    Recently, A 75 year old widow was ordered to be WHIPPED 40 TIMES in Saudi A.

    This is NOT SAUDI ARABIA.

    This is SOUTH ASIA.

    We are the land of SUFIS.

    Lets preserve our culture.

  46. Cannot see comments says:
    April 3rd, 2009 2:45 pm

    Moderator please fix comments viewing for this story. I cannot view previous pages of comments, only the most current. Is this just my browser? Can others view prior posted comments (pages 1-5)?

  47. anon says:
    April 3rd, 2009 3:03 pm

    Mr. Adil Najm,

    While this and all such incidences are deplorable and must be condemned strongly, there must be an equally loud outcry against the innocent being killed indiscriminately by the drone attacks.

    There must be voices raised for Pakistan to stand on its own feet no matter what it takes. It must reject any foreign aid, root out all foreign elements as well as SA and local terrorists. Pakistanis already realize that US is no friend. Any aid only takes Pakistan further into slavery and corruption. It must weed out the corrupt rich and the traitor mullahs and politicians from within.

    There is no dearth of creative human capital in Pakistan. Pakistanis will rise up to the challenge and make the country a self sustaining peaceful promised land.

  48. Mohsin Irshad says:
    April 3rd, 2009 3:33 pm

    Bomb the hell out of this place. These people do not deserve to live

  49. Aamir Ali says:
    April 3rd, 2009 3:36 pm

    @Adnan Siddiqi

    What kind of peace and Shariat is there in Swat if a helpless girl is accused and whipped in public ?

    Its the peace/Shariat of jahils and their supporters and I want such jahil Shariat to be crushed by tanks.

    I advocate tanks because people like you don’t even accept something right in front of your eyes and simply live in denial, like cowards.

  50. zia m says:
    April 3rd, 2009 3:45 pm

    This is happening in the land of Jinnah !

    We must work for separation of Mosque and State before it is too late.

  51. krash says:
    April 3rd, 2009 4:01 pm

    My question is that IF all the legal requirements of shariat were followed and the victim was declared guilty, would you still find the punishment ‘disturbing’?

  52. Taha says:
    April 3rd, 2009 4:49 pm

    Mr. karash. This is not that kind of Islam we believe and Muslims were believe since the beginning of Islam not until this wahabi fitna came. Our Religion teaches us to forgive and Akhlaq but not barbarism. Islam gave rights to a women. We don’t need translation of Islam form these illiterate barbarians militants. I wish that these rascals never accepted Islam. They did nothing to Islam accepted to make joke of it. Islam spread through the message of love and by Sofia karams. No sensible person or Muslim belief that this is right except the one who has no sight to see the truth.
    These peoples are illiterate bunch of fools who know nothing other then killing and destroying. You better think who you are defending.
    Islam will never spread through sword and you cant force any one to follow your definitions of Islam.

  53. krash says:
    April 3rd, 2009 4:59 pm

    Well, Mr Taha, these illiterate barbarians did not pull this out of thin air. Lashing is prescribed in the Quran.
    Hene my question, IF all the requirements of shariat were followed would the lashing be still considered disturbing.

  54. RafiqTarar says:
    April 3rd, 2009 5:01 pm

    For all those condoning thses acts: Please go and live in the Tribal Areas or Afghanistan – we don’t need this Sharia in Pakistan…

  55. anon says:
    April 3rd, 2009 5:12 pm

    @krash

    No, provided there is a guarantee that all the requirements od sharia are met. Just like capital punishment is not disturbing for a serial killer or a perpetrator of a heinous crime provided all the requirements of the law of the land are met.

  56. Taimur says:
    April 3rd, 2009 5:13 pm

    This is sickening. Equally sickening are those whoa re trying to defend this.

    THIS IS NOT ISLAM. TALIBAN ARE ENEMIES OF ISLAM. WE MST FIGHT THEM.

  57. Ali Dada says:
    April 3rd, 2009 5:14 pm

    @Pure Indian,
    Relax, stay in your territory, you don’t need to nor deserve to comment on Saudi Arabia’s relationship with Pakistan.

    Regarding this situation,
    Truly tragic. My only hope is that Pathans wake up and start condeming these acts and stop being so backwards. Problems like this are not happening in Sindh, Punjab and not even in cities like Peshawar and Quetta. Rural Pathan culture needs to be changed.

  58. safdar ali says:
    April 3rd, 2009 5:32 pm
  59. Neena says:
    April 3rd, 2009 5:57 pm

    Krash you siad, Hene my question, IF all the requirements of shariat were followed would the lashing be still considered disturbing.

    Yes it is, it was the way of punishment then even Bible and Torah prescribed it. But then I’m for secular style of government and justice system as Religion has different meaning for everyone.

    Adnan, Two wrongs doesn’t make one right. BTW, if someone breaks law they can welcome to challenge it in secular court otherwise in Taliban court there is no such thing. You could be right about conspiracy theory as Mullah Radio doesn’t leave any traces behind he burn things and kill humans. Last but not least I’m not too worried about JI and its kind as they always boycott fair and free elections so whatever they say its ineffective. They should wait another Gen Zia like savior to save their souls.

  60. SAD N ANGRY says:
    April 3rd, 2009 6:15 pm

    Just went to yor Facebook page for this blog. Very interesting that many people there (actually a few people with repeat messages) are trying to defend Taliban. How can that be. I guess there are more Jahils on Facebook.

  61. Eidee Man says:
    April 3rd, 2009 7:26 pm

    There is nothing to discuss; you discuss issues which are complex and have multiple viewpoints, perspectives, etc. This is dead WRONG; it really doesn’t get more cut and dried than this. Us debating this problem will accomplish nothing; the only entity who can do something here is the government, and they need to hit back, and hit HARD.

  62. Adil Najam says:
    April 3rd, 2009 7:30 pm

    Dear friends, let me urge those of you in Lahore and Karachi to join the peace rallies being organized their Saturday to raise our voices against terrorism and violence of all kind.

    Our friend and contributor Raza Rumi writes at Pak Tea House that:

    Today it is Chaand Bibi – the unfortunate victim in Swat and tomorrow it could be civilisation itself or whatever remains of it in the rest of the country.

    The citizens of Lahore and the numerous groups will get together tomorrow to protest on the Mall Road. Concerned citizens in Karachi are also protesting at the Karachi Press Club.

    This is a chance for you to stand up and be counted against the forces of extremism and aggression who are hellbent on destroying our beloved city Lahore and the country. If we will not raise our voices then we are condemned to be victims of history.

    Let us march on the Mall Road in Lahore tomorrow, to counter darkness with peaceful protest – OUR STATE MUST FIGHT THE TERRORISTS

    Date: Saturday, April 4, 2009
    Time: 4:00pm – 5:00pm
    Location: The High Court Lahore/Press Club, Karachi
    City/Town: Lahore/Karachi, Pakistan

    I urge those who can to please join this noble cause and let our voices be heard against all violence, everywhere, by anyone.

  63. April 3rd, 2009 7:49 pm

    I usually try not to comment on my own post (since I have already made my case in the post), but since I have done so at our Facebook page (where the content as well as discussion is somewhat different), I thought I should raise the same point here.

    One cannot rule out the possibility that this video is a propaganda stunt – maybe its not from Swat, or maybe its from much earlier, maybe from when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan. That is why we used careful language in the original post.

    My question to those making this point is: “Given that this may be the case, what if it is not? Just in case it turns out that this happened, either in Swat now or somewhere else at any other point, would you condemn what is happening as wrong IF it were real?”

    If not, then there is something terribly, terribly wrong with all of us.

  64. faraz says:
    April 3rd, 2009 7:59 pm

    Eidee says
    “the only entity who can do something here is the government, and they need to hit back, and hit HARD.”

    What will happen then? These animals will become victims again. Remember Lal masjid episode. Our pundits on Urdu media will again show that we are killing our own people and leaders like “Imran Khan” and Qazi will come out again loudly for defending those people.

    I think best strategy to let Taliban to rule Swat for few more months. Record all their wrong doing by hidden cameras and show it in media. We first need to win hears and minds of pakistani majority which think that Taliban or Saudia Arabia kind of justice system has some merits and we are fighting some one else war. Once everyone is sick of Taliban and their patehtic supporter like Imran or Hamid Mir; then Army will go out in full force and will exterminate these ppl out of exitenz.

  65. Mian Khan says:
    April 3rd, 2009 8:38 pm

    Answerable to Allah or Mullah????

    @Anon:
    “It does not matter what any person or entity says or thinks. You are only answerable to Allah. Peace!”

    If Anon you believe in what you have written, then why you and people like you are not asking to at least publish the trial of Kalama-Tayyabah reciter in Pakistan national Assembly in 1974???
    I don’t think Pakistanis have enough courage to demand from
    Pakistan Government to conduct RE-TRIAL of reciters of Kalima Tayyabah in an open court of law, for example in Pakistan Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry’s court!!!!!

  66. readinglord says:
    April 3rd, 2009 9:03 pm

    Any thing is possible in the Pakiland wherein the very Constitution of the country can be converted into a ‘Fatwa’, thereby allowing any body to declare any citizen of Pakistan a ‘kafir’ liable to be lynched.

    My great-grand-mother would use to tell me the horrible stories of atrocities committed during Sikha-shahi in Punjab which I could hardly believe. What I am seeing today under Talbani Sikhashahi is certainly more horrible than that. All this in my view is the result of irrationality inherent in every religion or idealogy, etc., taken to the extreme.

    Btw, Punjab was liberated from Sikhashahi by the British and I hope it is the West again which is coming to our aid today that will save us from the onslaught of the Talibani Islamic Sikhashahi as our government has apparently failed to check it.

    What a pity they are celebrating in Nodero when daughters of the land are crying for help!

  67. whatever says:
    April 3rd, 2009 9:19 pm

    unfortunately this is what 80% of us pakistanis support.

  68. Maskeenel says:
    April 3rd, 2009 9:23 pm

    what Pakistan really needed. Maybe it is time that it should be applied to the Taliban leaders as well. Whenever caught, they should be flogged and then thrown in jail, specially in those jails where anti taliban
    are jailed.

  69. Riaz Haq says:
    April 3rd, 2009 9:24 pm

    Pakistan’s ruling elite, including a long list of politicians from left and right during its 60 year history, have been too willing to make deals with the extremists who believe in a very harsh and punitive version of Islam. They see no room for reason or Ijtihad to adapt to the realities of the world today. Zardari is not alone in enabling this abomination. ANP, the progressive party that won the mandate over the religious right, is equally culpable, if not more so. It was ANP that made the deal with Sufi, Zardari endorsed it.

  70. Javed Khan says:
    April 3rd, 2009 9:30 pm

    ‘If you can see eye of an ant then you can expect mercy from a mullah’. These words were written by a Muslim scholar about, four centuries ago. I wonder what happened to the man she was alleged to be with. It possible that she was a victim of child abuse.

  71. Neena says:
    April 3rd, 2009 9:43 pm

    This video maybe fake but burning girls schools, limiting women movement, making men grow beard, controlling one’s right to entertainment by destroying music shops and cinema, killing minorities, and damaging Sufi Islam landmarks aren’t. If fake video make my people take notice then let them be.

    Faraz, Qazi and Imran Khan are just noise makers, they know their limits they can’t even contest free elections. If there is enough hangama Nawaz Sharif will soon left them and Zia Islam too and then they will be nothing. Good thing MQM is secular and they have redeem themselves. Urdu media is always Jamati biased let them be.

  72. Ali Dada says:
    April 3rd, 2009 10:19 pm

    Sister Neena,

    MQM is not secular. Inface, they are better than that – they don’t allow a religious label to be put on their party. They allow the society to function as is. Whoever wants to pray 5 times a day and observe sunnahs and get religious education in Karachi, they are free to do so. Whoever wants to pursue the career of rock star, they are free to do so.

    Even some of MQM members are very religious while some are not that religious. Religion should never be an issue in politics- I believe this is your point.

  73. RafiqTarar says:
    April 3rd, 2009 10:25 pm

    This video is real… TTP spokesman has already accepted responsibility for it… and why shouldn’t it be? We have seen far worse from these people including public shootings in soccer grounds… What shocked me more was people on Pakistani media actually condoning this… If this is where Pakistani society has reached after 60 years then maybe we deserve to be taken over by these barbarians.

  74. Beej Kumar says:
    April 3rd, 2009 10:54 pm

    I am very disturbed by the current crisis in Pakistan, of which this outrage is the latest example. I hope and pray that our Pakistani friends can over come it.

  75. muhammad shanil says:
    April 3rd, 2009 10:58 pm

    What a disgusting show of religious extremism! the thing every1 forgets is that she is only a 17 year old girl,a minor.What is even more depressing that tv anchors like mushtaq minhas last night defended this act by labelling it as a conspiracy by the jews and the indians.these people’s repeated defence of these barbaric activities is what keeps the public support of the taliban up.instead of condemning the mentality of the fanatics,he deflected the atrocity by mentioning drones and the jewish agents and said this issue was not worth mentioning and there was no need to discuss it!these fans of the taliban’s brutality are what keeps letting these atrocities go unpunished as they deflect any criticism by launching into their own propaganda.The taliban’s spokesperson already accepted responsibility and said that the right thing was done.the media defenders of the taliban must be brought to account for making the atrocities of the taliban acceptable in the minds of the public.

  76. Maqbool says:
    April 3rd, 2009 11:04 pm

    I am first of all skeptical about the word “sharia”. I know it means the way of Islam, but is there any authentic book of “sharia” which has the codes of law clearly written in it and universally acceptable to all the Muslim sects? Or is Sharia a moving target and just as vague as the word “patriotism” is. Really I have never come across any book which is clearly written in a legal format, called “shariah”. So if it is vague, how can you implement it. For example what is the penalty in “shariah” for speeding 10 miles above the posted speed limit?

  77. zakoota says:
    April 3rd, 2009 11:26 pm

    Im sure this must be staged by the enemies of Pakistan to create a more negative image of the country, as these kind of videos/messages spread very quickly now a days. The real terrorist intelligence agency of india RAW along with some others are working and training some fractions of Pashtoons including Bait ullah Masood and are involved in most terrorist activities throughout Pakistan.
    I think as a responsible citizen of Pakistan one should not follow the bandwagon without judging the circumstances by which Pakistan is passing through these days. Posting these videos help propagate the message of the enemies. This video, who so ever did it, is very disturbing and ,therefore,should not be posted unless and until the authenticity of this video is guaranteed. I remember a similar kind of video was aired repeatedly by all international media before the invasion of Afghanistan.

  78. Eidee Man says:
    April 3rd, 2009 11:26 pm

    I am distressed, but not surprised, by some of the pathetic comments mentioned here by people who are expressing their doubts about the authenticity of the video, and suggesting conspiracies by the U.S.

    A normal person with a quantum of moral fibre would not even treat a rat the way this woman seems to have been beaten. Given that we cannot even afford animal rights to our own people, the complaints about others treating us unjustly are utterly ridiculous.

  79. nashus says:
    April 3rd, 2009 11:31 pm

    Listening to our talk shows I gather this is yet another saazish. Is there any thing happening in our country which is not saazish. For how long can we can remain in a state of denial.

  80. Anwer says:
    April 4th, 2009 12:48 am

    > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-614604,prtpage-1.cms
    >
    > Price of Honour: Caste Panchayats as Instruments of Terror
    > …
    > In many cases, the sentence of punishment is given and
    > executed by caste panchayats. These are all-male groups of
    > self-proclaimed guardians of caste interests and

  81. ATP Administrator says:
    April 4th, 2009 12:58 am

    A second, new, video has been added to the post above. This video shows comments from a Tehrik i Taleban spokesman.

  82. Neena says:
    April 4th, 2009 1:17 am

    The half wit guy in the second videao gloating the Sharia Nizam and once he even mentioned sangsar (stoning) for such crimes. What more proof we need to condemn these perpretators? Can anyone dare to give them punishment for killing innocents and burning public buildings? Our government and Army and of all powers including US should stop the pact with devil. I’m speechless how and when these people gained so much powers and what else they need to do to us to get punishment?

  83. Gulzar says:
    April 4th, 2009 1:28 am

    Thank you for adding the second video.

    The second video is even more scary than the first one.

    The idiot spokesman of the Taliban is accepting that the video is real, he is justifying what happened, and then he is promising that now we will see even more. In fact, he says that the poor child should have been stoned.

    I tell you who should be stoned is this guy.

    Scary, scary, scary.

  84. Syed Fareed Ali says:
    April 4th, 2009 1:44 am

    This is a barbaric act that needs to be condemned by everybody especially the religious leaders. Nowhere in Islam is such a punishment permitted and that also to a woman. It is about time we took a stand against this and stand up to stop these acts from happening again

  85. Deeda-i-Beena says:
    April 4th, 2009 1:45 am

    Mohammad Bin Qasim responded to the cries of a woman and the rest is history.
    There is no Qasim among the 170 million OR 1.5 Billion, let alone the hunreds who witnessed the “Tamasha”

  86. bonobashi says:
    April 4th, 2009 1:51 am

    The second video was depressing not because of the unconscious ferocity of the Taliban spokesman but because of the helplessness of the two young commentators to break through his rock-bound logic. If they wanted to question him, surely the preparation should have been better. Surely they could have consulted those learned in law. Instead, they let him step all over them, and insist doggedly that whatever was done was rightly done. A shame.

    We need to prepare ourselves against our respective opponents better.

  87. don says:
    April 4th, 2009 1:54 am

    Funny thing is these idiots call themselves muslims and

    doing such stupid things with innocent kids.

  88. MOHAMMAD QASIM says:
    April 4th, 2009 2:16 am

    Thanks for adding the second video.

    What do all the taliban defenders say now that teh taliban itself has accepted that this video is real and that they would do this and even more (stoning)?

  89. SAIMA says:
    April 4th, 2009 2:19 am

    I think the interviewers do a very good job and keep asking the right questions.

    it is this criminal Taliban spokesperson who refuses to answer.

    Specially the girl asking the questions is asking the right questions.

  90. Taha says:
    April 4th, 2009 2:27 am

    @krash . I am a Muslim and I Believe it with all my heart. Yes this right that Lashing is prescribed in the Quran but He also describe what will be conditions when it can implemented. There is no where in the Quran that tells a teenage girl can be humiliate in front of all these so called men.
    I don’t want to talk about Taliban and their way of implementing it because I think they are just misguided illiterate bunch animals who doesn’t know and anything accept killing. I do not even consider him a human. Thy are murderers of many innocent Muslims and should be treated as criminals.
    Here is what you wanted to listen. We refuse to accept this kind of translation of sharyah and It’s time to stand up and fight against these rascals and kill them as many as we can.
    Apply this kind of shariah on your own women or else blow your self and kill some innocent Muslims and go to paradise(they hope it).

    Pakistan is the place of peaceful Sofya karam not a place of extremist wahabis. Islam didn’t spread and will never spread with the sword.

    I read somewhere in a English scholar book that Islam is the true religion but their believers are the worst.

  91. Mohammed says:
    April 4th, 2009 2:28 am

    Has anyone noticed that all our political bigwigs are quiet…. Zardari: no comment. Nawaz Sharif: No comment. Gen. Kiani: No comment. Are all of them scared of the Taliban?

  92. Mahvish says:
    April 4th, 2009 2:32 am

    Can someone please explain what it means that the chief justice will take suo moto action? what does that mean.

  93. HUMAIR says:
    April 4th, 2009 2:52 am

    I think Nida Hafeez, the woman asking the questions in the second video does a superb job. Keeping her cool but not letting go of teh question. The result is that the Taliban spokesman comes out looking like the fool he is.

  94. Farrukh says:
    April 4th, 2009 2:54 am

    Is there any word at all from the so called religious leaders in Pakistan. What do JUI and JI and Junaid jamshed and others say. Will they at least condemn this>??????????

  95. Cyber_cohen says:
    April 4th, 2009 2:59 am

    Taha says:

    “I read somewhere in a English scholar book that Islam is the true religion but their believers are the worst.”

    …and that makes it true? See, this is exactly what I am talking about – don’t you people have any sense of patriotism?

    Do you, Taha, not know about the attrocities that were committed by Christians when they overran both American continents? Do you not know what they did in Australia? Do you not know what happened in Spain, hence the term “Spanish inquisition”? Do you not know what is happening today in Iraq and in Afghanistan?

    Pakistan is the place you make it. You can either accept Islam (based upon its teachings using the Quran and the Hadeeths) and retain that as the foundation to build your successes upon or you can ignore it and march towards your failure.

    Gully gully meh shor he, Pakistan bara hua he rishwat-cor aur chor se.

  96. zakintosh says:
    April 4th, 2009 3:40 am

    Apart from the fact that Zina was not ‘established’ in this case (there are so many variants of this story on the net, including the one about the father in law that we hear on this video) that I am certainly confused about what the ‘alleged’ crime really was.

    The Maulana refers repeatedly to stoning as the correct punishment, differentiating – as has become the custom -between Adultery and Fornication. However, we KNOW that that is not based on a Quranic injunction.

    The differentation is based on a distortion of Biblical references and attributed to a Hadees that you can see at http://tinyurl.com/ch6fal (an extract is quoted below).

    Allaah decrees a severe punishment in this world for those who commit zina, namely the hadd punishment. Allaah says, describing the punishment for the unmarried person who commits zina:

  97. zakintosh says:
    April 4th, 2009 3:42 am

    @farrukh The Ameer of JI will state his support for the Taliban this Sunday on GEO’s Javaabdeyh at 8PM

  98. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 4th, 2009 4:50 am


    Adnan, Two wrongs doesn

  99. Muhammed Umer Farooq says:
    April 4th, 2009 6:50 am

    It is because of this aspect of Islam that I left it many years ago.

  100. April 4th, 2009 7:04 am
  101. bonobashi says:
    April 4th, 2009 7:13 am

    @Mahvish

    I don’t know the powers of the Supreme Court of Pakistan. In any court normally, if that court takes suo moto notice of any event, it means that the court has decided to notice it even though none of the usual channels to approach that court have been used.

    Usually, the Supreme Court would be handling matters of constitutional importance. All matters relating to law and processes of law would be handled at a High Court or Court of Assizes level, if no constitutional issues are involved. That means that a Supreme Court is normally approached by a person aggrieved by the findings of a lower court, a person who believes that there is a matter of constitutional interpretation or a matter of high legal refinement and definition involved. Typically, people who lose a case in a lower court seek permission to appeal against that decision, and if allowed, then the people concerned take the case up at the next higher level. So the courts reporting to the Supreme Court would be the main sources of business in the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would not entertain other matters.

    A policeman off the street cannot walk into this court, for example, and ask that some ordinary, day-to-day villainy be punished. The Court would thrown him out in seconds and get back to work on its knotty questions.

    The exception to this is the suo moto powers of the court. It retains the power to take up a case by itself, without reference by others.

    This is what the Supreme Court seems to have done. It seems to be saying, “Look, we can’t wait till somebody comes to us to say that this girl has been harmed, we have to act on our own. Find out what’s happening, and make a report, and let’s see what the facts are. But no waiting for others to approach us.”

    This is a very unusual and a very strong step.

    I am waiting with bated breath to see what it will do next.

  102. ahsan says:
    April 4th, 2009 7:26 am

    I bet Adil Najam could have condemed it in stronger words. He playing it safe is so absolutely clear. Its not a surprise that many ‘pious’ individulas commenting here are confused about the (Islamic) legitimacy of the whole episode. The action of these mullahs and talibans was absolutely inhuman and their version of so called Islamic Shariah is nothing but animalistic and barbaric. The only silver lining I see here is that hopefully the people of NWFP more specifically of Swat , are not going to ever invite some mullah to impose some twisted version of so called Islamic Shariah on them.

  103. shahzad shameem says:
    April 4th, 2009 8:58 am

    ALLAMA IQBAL, exposing, charater of so called Mulim SCHOLARS.

    *. ILfaaz-o-maani main tafawat nahin lekin
    Mullah ki azan aur hai, Mujahid ki azan aur
    Parwaaz hai dono ki issi aik fiza main
    Girgis ka jahan aur hai, Shaheen ka jahan aur

    (Meanings: ILfaaz-o-Maani = Words and meanings; Tafawat = Difference; Mullah = Referring to so called Muslim scholars; Mujahid = True Muslim with strong Faith and belief; Parwaaz = Flight; Girgis = Kite; Shaheen = Hawk)

    *. Saudagri nahin, ye ibadat Khuda ki hai
    O baykhabar! jaza ki tammanna bhi chor dey
    Wa’iz saboot layey jo ma’y kay jawaz main
    Iqbal ko ye zid hai kay peena bhi chor dey

    (Meanings: Saudagri = Trade or some agreement of give n’ take; Ibadat = Worship; Baykhabar = Ignored; Jaza = Reward; Tammanna = Desires; Wa’iz = One who delivers speech in Mosque; saboot = Proof; Ma’y = Referring to sins and forbidden things; Zid = To insist upon something)

    *. Sher mardon say hua baisha-e-tehqeeq tahi
    Reh gayey sufi-o-mullah kay ghulam aey saaqi
    Ishq ki taigh-e-jigar daar chura li kis nay?
    ILM kay haath main khali hau nayaam aey saaqi

    (Meanings: Sher Mardon = Brave Muslims with strong faith; baisha-e-tehqeeq= Referring to Muslim nation; Tahi = Empty; ghulam = slave; saaqi = friend; Ishq = Strong Faith; taigh-e-jigar daar = Strength; chura = To steal; ILM = Knowledge; Khali = Empty; Nayaam = Sword holder)

    *. Go uss ki khudai main mohajin ka bhi hai haath
    Duniya tou samajhti hai Farangi ko Khudawand
    Ehkaam TEREY Haq hain, magar apney muffassir
    Taweel say Quran ko bana saktey hain paband
    Derwesh-e-Khuda mast na sharqi hai na gharbi
    Ghar uss ka na Dilli, na Safahan, na Samarqand
    Chup reh na saka Hazrat-e-Yazdan main bhi Iqbal
    Kerta koi iss banda-e-gustaakh ka mun band

    (Dr. Iqbal is assuming here as if he is taken to Almighty God and is talking to HIM)

    (Meanings: Go= Although; Uss = Referring to British here; Mohajin = Referring to Hindu Brahmins; haath = involvement; Farangi = British; Khudawand = Master; Ehkaam = Commandments; TEREY = Referring to Allah; Haq = Justified/valid/true; Muffassir = One who explains or educate others; Taweel = False logic for self benefit; Paband = Referring to interpret wrong meanings in self interest; Darwesh-e-Khuda = True Saint; Sharqi = Eastern; Gharbi = Western; Ghar = permanent residence; chup = Silent; Hazrat-e-Yazdan = Before Allah; banda-e-gustaakh = Rebellious natured man)

    *. Yahi sheikh-e-Haram hai, jo chura ker baich khata hai
    Galim-e-Bu Zar-o-dalq-e-Awais-o-chader-e-Zehra
    Hazoor-e-Haq main Israfeel nay meri shikayat ki
    Ye banda waqt say pehley qayamat ker na dey berpa

    (Meanings: Sheikh-e-Haram = Referring to so called Muslim scholars who have established their clergy in religion, hence ignoring the Commandment of Quran that no clergy is allowed in religion; Chura ker baich khana = To defame Islam and to misrepresent teachings of Muhammad (PBUH); Galim-e-Bu Zar/Dalq-e-Awais/Chader-e-Zehra = Practices and teachings of companions/daughter of Muhammad (PBUH); Hazoor-e-Haq = Before Allah; Israfeel = An angel; Shikayat = Complaint; berpa = emergence)

    *. Ishq say paida nawa hai zindagi main zer-o-bam
    Ishq say mitti ki tasweeron main soz-e-dam badam
    Aey Musalman! apney dil say pooch, mullah say na pooch
    Ho gaya Allah kay bandon say kyon khali Haram

    (Meanings: Ishq = Faith; nawa = voice; zer-o-bam = Thick n’ thin; Mitti ki tasweeron = Human beings; soz-e-dam badam = Life)

    *. Ye misra likh diya kis shokh nay mehrab-e-Masjid per?
    Ye nadan gir gayey sajdey main jab waqt-e-qayam aya
    Diya Iqbal nay Hindi musalmanon ko soz apna
    Ye ik mard-e-tan asan tha, tan asanon kay kaam aya

    (Meanings: Misra = verse; shokh = jolly; mehrab-e-Masjid = wall of Mosque; nadan = ignored; sajdey = prostrate; qayam = standing straight in prayers; Soz = thoughts; mard-e-tan asan = man of words, not of action)

    *. Dil hai Musalman tera na mera
    Tu bhi namazi, main bhi namazi
    Main janta hun anjaam uss ka
    Jis maarkey main Mullah ho ghazi

    (Meanings: Anjaam = Conclusion; Maarkey = Adventure; Ghazi = Warrior)

    *. Andaz-e-bayan agarchey mera shokh nahin hai
    Shayad kay terey dil main uter jayye meri baat
    Wo mazhab-e-mardan-e-khud agah-o-Khuda mast
    Ye mazhab-e-mullah-o-jamadat-o-nabatat

    (Meanings: Andaz-e-bayan = Speech; Agarchey = though; shokh = Jolly (referring to being impressive here); wo mazhab-e-mardan-e-khud agah-o-Khuda mast = Referring to strong Faith and practices of companions of Prophet (PBUH) and praising them for their honesty and strength; ye mazhab-e-mulla-o-jamadat-o-nabatat = Referring to present day’s Islam and calling it a creation of so called fake religious scholars, who defamed Islamic teachings in self interests)

    *. Ajab nahin kay Khuda tak teri rasai ho
    Teri nigah say hai poshida aadmi ka muqaam
    Teri namaz main baqi na jalal hai, na jamal
    Teri azan main nahin meri seher ka paigham

    (Dr. Iqbal is addressing so called fake scholars here)

    (Meanings: Ajab = Amazing; Rasai = Approach; Nigah = Sight; poshida = Hidden; Aadmi = Human being; Muqaam = Grade; Namaz = Prayer (referring to deeds and moral values too); Jalal = Grace; Jamal = prestige; Azan = Call for prayers (Referring to patience, wisdom and foresight too); Seher = Referring to true teachings of Quran which were practically demonstrated by Muhammad (PBUH))

    *. Zinda qu’at thi jahan main yehi Tauheed kabhi
    Aaj kya hai? faqat ik masla-e-ilm-e-kalaam
    Qaum kya cheez hai, qaumon ki immamat kya hai
    Iss ko kya samjhain ye becharey dou rakat kay Imaam

    (Meanings: Zinda qu’at = Influential strength; Jahan = World; Tauheed = Referring to Islam; Faqat = Merely; Masla-e-ILM-e-Kalam = A matter of recitation only; Qaum = Nation; Qaumon ki Immamat = Leading nation; Becharey = Poor; Do rakat kay Imam = Referring to so called scholars of Islam)

    *. Wahdat ki hifazat nahin bay quat-e-bazu
    Aati nahin kuch kaam yahan aql-e-Khudadad
    Aey mard-e-Khuda! tujh ko wo qu’at nahin haasil
    Ja baith kisi ghaar main Allah ko ker yaad
    Mullah ko jo hai Hind main sajdey ki ijazat
    Nadan ye samjhta hai kay Islam hai azaad

    (Meanings: Wahdat = Tauheed/Islam; Hifazat = Protection; Bay quat-e-bazu = Without strong faith; Aql-e-Khudadad = mere wisdom; Mard-e-Khuda = Referring to fake scholars of Islam here; haasil = possession; Ghaar = Cave)

    *. Sufi ki tareeqat main faqat masti-e-ahwaal
    Mullah ki shariat main faqat masti-e-guftaar
    Wo mard-e-mujahid nazar aata nahin mujh ko
    Ho jis kay rag-o-pey main faqat masti-e-kirdaar

    (Meanings: Sufi = fake religious scholar; Tareeqat = speech; faqat = Only; masti-e-ahwaal = paper claims with no practical model; Mullah = fake scholar; Shariat = law; masti-e-guftaar = attractive theories without any demonstration; Mard-e-Mujahid = Man of strong Faith; nazar aata nahin = Doesn’t exist; rag-o-pey = all deeds; masti-e-kirdaar = Practical example of truth and Quran)

    *. Peeran-e-kaleesa hon ya sheikhan-e-Haram hon
    Na jiddat-e-kirdar, na jiddat-e-guftaar
    Duniya ko hai uss mehdi-e-berhaq ki zaroorat
    Ho jiski nigah zalzala-e-aalam-e-ufkaar
    (Meanings: Peeran-e-Kaleesa = Priests in Church; Sheikhan-e-Haram = Muslim scholars in Mosque; Jiddat-e-Kirdaar = Strong character; Jiddat-e-guftaar = Impressive speech; Mehdi-e-berhaq = Mehdi Mo’ud denotatively, connotatively referring to a savior of people; nigah zalzala-e-alam-e-ufkaar = Strong character and honest)

    *. Bayan main nukta-e-Tauheed aa tou sakta hai
    Terey damagh main bu’t khana ho, tou kya kahiyey
    Muqam-e-faqr kitna buland hai shahi say
    Teri nigah ghulamana ho, tou kya kahiyey
    (Meanings: Bayan = Speech of scholars on matters of religion; Nukta-e-Tauheed = Discussion on Islam; Bu’t khana = Temple of idols/referring to non Islamic traditions; Muqam-e-Faqr = Grade of hospitality; buland = high; shahi = Grade of royal crown; Nigah = Vision or thoughts; Ghulamana = Slavish)

    *. Baqi na rahi wo teri aina zameeri
    Aey kushta-e-sultani-o-mullai-o-peeri

    (Meanings: Aina Zameeri = Faith; Kushta-e-sultani-o-mulla-i-o-peeri = Those ignored and aloof Muslims who blindly follow so called fake scholars and treat them like sacred souls)

    *. Koi ye poochey kay wa’iz ka kya bigarta hai?
    Jo bayamal per bhi karam Wo Beynyaz karey
    Gharoor-e-zehd nay sikhla diya hai wa’iz ko
    Kay bandgan-e-Khuda pay zaban daraaz karey
    Hawa ho aisi kay Hindustan say aey Iqbal!
    Urra kay mujh ko ghubaar-e-rah-e-Hijaaz karey

    (Meanings: Poochey = To inquire; Wai’z = One who delivers speech in Mosque; Bigarta = Loss; Bayamal = Non practicing and low graded Muslim; Karam = Blessings/mercies; WO Baynyaz = Referring to Allah; Gharoor-e-Zehd = Being proud of one’s high religious status; Bandgan-e-Khuda = slaves of Allah; Zaban Daraz karey = To criticise; Hawa = Direction; Ghubaar-e-rah-e-Hijaaz = Dust of Makkah and Madina)

    *. Tu bhi hai shewa-e-arbab-e-raya main kaamil
    Dil main London ki hawas, lab pey terey zikr-e-Hijaaz
    Jhoot bhi maslehet aamez tera hota hai
    Tera andaz-e-tammaluq bhi sarapa ejaaz

    (Addressing to fake scholars here)

    (Meanings: Shewa-e-arbab-e-raya = Hypocrite; Kamil = specialist; Dil main terey London ki hawas = Desires of visiting London; Lab pey terey zikr-e-Hijaaz = Praising Makkah and Medina all the time, thus being hypocritical; Jhoot= Lies; Maslehet aamez = better than truth; Andaz-e-Tammaluq = To flatter or being slavishly low in praising others for self benefit; Sarapa Ejaaz = Simply great (Dr. Iqbal is making fun of the so called scholars by saying that since they pretend to be sacred figures, even their sins are better than good deeds of an ordinary person)

    *. Nasha pila kay girana tou sab ko aata hai
    Maza tou tab hai kay girton ko thaam ley saaqi
    Kati hai raat tou hangama gustri main teri
    Seher kareeb hai, Allah ka naam ley saaqi

    (Meanings: Nasha = Drugs/addiction; pila kay girana = To betray others; Maza = Something different or unique; girton ko thaam ley = To help the oppressed and troubled; Kati hai raat tou hangama gustri main teri = Addressing to fake scholars saying that their night passed in spreading revolt and sectarian riots; Seher kareeb hai, Allah ka naam ley saaqi = addressing to fake scholars and advising them that it is better late than never, and they should now submit to original teachings of Quran)

    *. Mujh ko tou sikha di hai Afrang nay zandiqi
    Iss dour kay Mullah hain kyon nang-e-Musalmani?
    ho naqsh ager baatil, takraar say kya haasil?
    Kya tujh ko khush aati hai Adam ki ye arzaani?

    (Meanings: Sikha di = To give training; Afrang = British; zandiqi = Corruption; Iss dour kay Mullah = Muslim scholars of the present era; Nang-e-Musalmani = Lacking knowledge of Islam and Muslim character; Naqsh = proved; Batil = False; Takraar = Argument; Haasil = conclusion; Khush aati hai = To be happy; Adam = Human being; Arzaani = Clashes) (Dr. Iqbal is comparing himself with a sinner low graded Muslim and saying that reason of such people’s downfall is ignorance of Islam and influence of British.

    Dr. Iqbal is pondering in second verse that why Muslim scholars of this era are also lacking Islamic vision.

    He further says that if something is already proved to be wrong by everyone, what is the reason of arguing upon such thing then? Is it an attempt to spread revolt which might excite some?)

    Do anybody need further explaination? Allama IQBAL words are still very much valid.

  104. Feisal Khan says:
    April 4th, 2009 9:02 am

    This video, which is actually a relatively innocuous event compared to the true horrors the Taliban have perpetrated, is the true face of Islam. One can argue all the gibberish one wants about how this is not true Islam, or the real message is peace, or whatever. This video is actually the kind and benign facet of the truth that is Islam today.

    I am not bashing Islam, simply making an observation. In the same way, the mass slaughter of non-Christians and the horrific massacres and tortures of heretics by the Catholic Church was the truth about Western Christianity during the Middle Ages. Christianity, as a religion, outgrew this phase eventually. Islam seems to be revelling in its.

  105. ahsan says:
    April 4th, 2009 9:10 am

    I agree to the observations made by Faisel Khan. The implementation of shariah that took place 1400 + years ago is no more relevant or acceptable.

  106. Sajjad Memon says:
    April 4th, 2009 9:21 am

    how could he say “Thirty five”….they never pronnounce anything in english…think about it.

  107. April 4th, 2009 9:41 am

    The incident is disgusting and nauseating; it has nothing to do Islamic teachings and Taliban have also no authority to exercise over the life and property of citizens, which sadly they are doing in the length and breadth of Frontier and tribal areas either due to the failure or criminal silence of the government.
    The list of horrors they are doing to the public is long; however, one good that came out of it was that for the first time rest of the nation came to know about the gravity of situation and sensed the plight of those living in Frontier. For the past three years these things are happening and rest of our nation acted as silent spectators and let me say that if the rest of the country had stood by our side in the beginning, Taliban have not been able to made deep inroads and conquests.
    One more aspect of this whole episode is that though Islam had prescribed severe punishment for adultery, but the criteria which Islam had set to prove the act also should be taken to in consideration. Shariah asks for four eye-witnesses (sane, pious, good character and free from seven deadly sins) to establish actual commission of the act. For the witnesses it is necessary that they have seen the couple while they were in intercourse, and if they see a couple lying together, then the commission of the offense does not establish. The Taliban interpretation of the Sharia is skewed and it has nothing to do with the teachings of Islam.

  108. April 4th, 2009 9:45 am
  109. babar says:
    April 4th, 2009 10:00 am

    How come no body talks about the authenticity of the video? Any Tom,Dick and Harry can create these kind of videos. It seems like these videos are launched for a purpose.

  110. Pure Indian says:
    April 4th, 2009 10:08 am

    Friends Kindly read this BLOG POST.

    http://www.pakspectator.com/dont-critcize-islamic-punishments/

    a quote:

    “”Taliban in Kabul showed the world, a most peaceful society “”

  111. Eidee Man says:
    April 4th, 2009 10:12 am

    “he second video was depressing not because of the unconscious ferocity of the Taliban spokesman but because of the helplessness of the two young commentators to break through his rock-bound logic. If they wanted to question him, surely the preparation should have been better. Surely they could have consulted those learned in law. ”

    “Learned” in what law? Wahabi law? I bet our “scholars” would have condoned it, or at most qualified it with something more pathetic like, “only her male relative should beat her.”

  112. bonobashi says:
    April 4th, 2009 10:17 am

    @Eidee Man

    You have a point. I was hoping for a crushing refutation which would have left the horror speechless for an answer. Romantic illusion.

  113. Muhammed Umer Farooq says:
    April 4th, 2009 10:43 am

    @babar

    The authenticity of this video is not important because there are muslims who justify and support the act depicted therein irrespective of the video’s authenticity.

    It is not about this particular video; it is about the mindset of some (most?) muslims.

  114. jk says:
    April 4th, 2009 10:49 am

    Disgusting.

    Why do people continue to defend the taliban? They have conquered parts of Pakistan. We are about to lose another province.

    Everyone is gungho to join the army to fight India. Join the army to fight these animals who have already conquered part of our country!

  115. Jusathot says:
    April 4th, 2009 11:05 am

    As Adil Najam clarified in his comment that

  116. Haider Ali says:
    April 4th, 2009 11:27 am

    For “jusathot”

    The disinformation being done is by you and the fitna is the Taliban and comments like yours. Adil Najam’s comment was BEFORE the second video he posted where the Taliban leader is actually accepting the video, so possibility of authenticity that might have been true before is no longer.

    So, can you condemn this now, please!!!!

  117. Irfana says:
    April 4th, 2009 11:30 am

    Since every commenter (on both sides) seems to be Maulanas themselves and experts in All things Islam, can someone please explain to me what teh right ISLAMIC PUNISHMENT is for the criminals thrashing this 17-yr old child?

  118. AKBAR says:
    April 4th, 2009 11:42 am

    @Babar

    The authenticity is now established.

    The Taliban themselves have accepted this happened and as you see in second video, the Taliban are saying they will do even more and worse than this to children and little girls.

  119. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 4th, 2009 12:20 pm

    Sometimes I am amazed by the ignorance of wanna be intellectuals. At one side they hide in bins when such horrible acts are done by the secularists like Altaf Goon hussain and the Musharraf but they try to put their words in others mouth to condemn or reject something which they don’t like themselves.

    You guys are amazing and really a genuine entertainment.

  120. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 4th, 2009 12:23 pm

    @irfana: Since you know yourself that everyone here is a drawing room expert and no proper knowledge of Islam than why are you even asking a question at first place? does it make sense? It’s just like someone ask software development related question from a Home Economics student. Ask the Alims which you consider authentic and aligned with Quran and Hadiths, Rest are nothing but tin soldiers.

  121. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 4th, 2009 1:02 pm


    Dont bring MQM here. You are just trying to change to topic. There are goons in MQM but they are still light years better then Taliban. They don

  122. Jusathot says:
    April 4th, 2009 1:15 pm

    @ Haider Ali

    I condemn ALL extremists

  123. faraz says:
    April 4th, 2009 1:32 pm

    Irfana:

    According to Quran lashing 17 years old girl mercilessly is a just punishment.

    But there are also amny things in Quran which are just. Like having slaves or buying womens and having them in your “haram”. Same is true about Bible but West is now civilized and ig their church found something totally against “humanity” they stop condoning it.

    On other hand; we still admire a “tribal society” of 7th century as “golden era” of humanity and want to emulate it.

    In Saudia they behead ppl in front of jubilating crowd. Rich ppl buy womens for their pleasure and and they can even beat 70 year old women by lashed if she is not accompying a male.

    Unless we do a grand reformation in Islam; it is middle ages religion with middle ages value system.

  124. walking_by says:
    April 4th, 2009 1:44 pm

    @Faraz: Very true. Decoupling of religion and state is one of the fundamental requirements for a healthy society. The West made significant progress in this direction after the Dark Ages. The rest of the world still lags behind and Islamic countries all the more so. As long as the debate revolves around “is this the *correct* interpretation of Islam” (or any religion for that matter) there is no way justice will prevail.

  125. Nadeem Chaudhry says:
    April 4th, 2009 1:45 pm

    Taliban=”A Problem From Hell”! I heard the Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan and every word he said had the stench of evil. I cannot imagine any of it to be true, as Allah has repeatedly given the woman a respectful place in the world. The woman who is a mother, a daughter and the center piece of every household….could Allah have been so disproportionately unfair to have prescribed the treatment the Taliban spokesman keeps referring to? A full chapter on “Women” shows how Allah wanted women to be treated in this world. Anything that digresses from that message is corrupting Allah’s word. This raises another question in my mind and that is where is the “Allah of The Oppressed”?

  126. D_a_n says:
    April 4th, 2009 2:17 pm

    @ Adnan Siddiqui…

    Dear man…I would like to take this opportunity to invite you to embrace Islam….right now….right this very minute….please ….please man…do us all a favour….

    embrace Islam….!

  127. An Optimist says:
    April 4th, 2009 2:20 pm

    Shocking.. How can a society develop if it treats women like this. If it is justifid in the name of a religion then these people need their heads cleaned.
    It is time for the Islamc countries & society to come out of such barbaric, hardcore and blind religious beliefs.
    Bottom line: people should learn to respect others beliefs as well and reflect on whether these are the things their religious founders intended!!
    No point in threatening people about going to some hell hen we are dead because we have not followed someone’s view or writings.. there can’t be a worst place to live than under the rule of such people.
    After reading all the comments here I am surprised that such things do hapen in Saudi and rest of the world is getting on with it.

  128. Aamir says:
    April 4th, 2009 3:18 pm

    Listening to this Taliban spokesman is frightening. So, these are the people we should be trusting our future in.

    We should haul this guy to court.

  129. Musalman says:
    April 4th, 2009 4:02 pm

    I think it is time to seriously discuss separating religion from the. This whole Shariah thing has been highjacked by these idiots and makes no sense at all. I want decent honest government and certainly not these killers as teh thekedars of shariah.

  130. Farrukh says:
    April 4th, 2009 4:07 pm

    I hope that civil society will keep pushing on this issue as they did with the rallier in Lahore and Karachi and also that blogs like this will not let the pressure off. That way, maybe, the chief justice will also be forced to make a big issue of this and bring this to teh court system.

  131. AZIZ says:
    April 4th, 2009 4:13 pm

    I think the courts should start proceeding against the Taliban, starting with this spokesman guy, for spreading fitna. I don’t like violence but I will not mind seeing him being flogged the same way for spreading hatred and fitna in society.

  132. Roxio says:
    April 4th, 2009 5:15 pm

    To see Asma Jahangir condemning this act and abusing those doing it was expected.Where was this champion of women’s rights when Afia Siddiqui was picked up and taken away to a US detention center.She kept a mysterious silence on that.

    Neither has she ever spoken against hundreds of people gone missing from Pakistan.
    Her only achievement so far has been to free hundreds of prostitutes held up in jails across the country.
    She lobbied hard to get them released and to be back in business again.

    Her activities should be watched closely and her backers need to be exposed.

  133. Tina says:
    April 4th, 2009 5:27 pm

    hmm..according to the Wall Street Journal this girl was lashed for having “relations” with her father-in-law (at 17!). It is highly unlikely that this was consensual–we know that in India and Pakistan young women are often raped by their fathers and brothers in law. In other words, she

  134. imran says:
    April 4th, 2009 5:46 pm

    Totally agree with comments made by walking_by….” Decoupling of religion and state is one of the fundamental requirements for a healthy society. “….we need to get rid of interfernce of religion in state…..this is barbaric….no one has any right to interfere in someones personal affairs and then punish them in public…..it is strange that we see a woman beaten for nothing…but have never heard these talibans beating up a rapist, or a murderer….they all desrve to die…may they burn in hell for ever…amen

  135. meengla says:
    April 4th, 2009 5:49 pm

    1) Whether this video is fake or not, whether it is new or old are questions of lesser significance then the question of whether such things can be possible in NWFP and large parts of Afghanistan. The answer to the latter question, judging by Taliban’s track record in the 90′s, is a resounding ‘yes’.
    2) Many of the bloggers of Pakistani origin who knew Pakistan of pre-Zia era can testify the sea-change in Pakistani mindset from a Sufi-oriented South Asian Islamic society to a jihad-crazed society in just over a decade between 1977 and 1989. Pakistan had seen a prologed military rule before under Ayub Khan but Pakistanis were basically the same in their mindset in 1969 as they were in 1958 as far as religion is concered. General Zia ul Haq destroyed Pakistan from within. No wonder his own son lost his seat in his home constituency in the Feb. 2008 elections.
    3) Pakistan cannot win the war against the Talibans (or whatever militants) unless the war becomes known as Pakistan’s own war. Musharraf failed miserably in selling the war to Pakistanis. Zardari had no chance of convincing the nation that it is Pakistan’s own war. May be Mian Nawaz Sharif then? He is ideologically much closer to the religious Right.

  136. imran says:
    April 4th, 2009 6:39 pm

    sorry!
    Meengla, i meant i couldnot agree woth you more, well said….(i guess all these videos have made my mind go crazy, if it will be upto me, i will drown all these shariat-and jehad crazed moulvees in arabian sea)

  137. meengla says:
    April 4th, 2009 8:03 pm

    @Imran,
    I understood your first post fine, especially after I read your earlier posts about this flogging incident. So no problem. And thanks for clarifying anyway.

    Now that I am making another post here, I might as well add-in some more stuff:
    1) In the 90s the Talibans rounded up Pakistani soccer team players during a game and shaved the players heads because the players were wearing T-shirts (or was it short-pants?). Quite some hospitality shown to their prime supporters.
    2) In one of the videos above the Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan continues to dodge questions about the nature of the punishment given to Chand bibi’s father-in-law. On top of that, Muslim Khan boasts that the girl is going relatively unharmed because a ‘real Qazi Court’ would have ‘stoned her to death’. He asserts it twice at least. It is unmistakable. Hello apologists in this blogspace!
    3) Pakistan is a contrary with perhaps the widest range of social freedoms within its geographical boundaries: From the liberal culture of Karachi where women are very much part of the society to the extremes of FATA and now Swat. I guess one could say: To each his/her own. But when these Jahils come to Karachi or Lahore and ‘do Lal Masjid’ then we have a problem. Americans fought a very bloody, cruel, ‘total’ war in mid-19th century to settle some ‘basic’ questions. I don’t see how Pakistanis can escape a similar struggle regardless of the presence of foreign forces around Pakistan.

  138. imran says:
    April 4th, 2009 8:53 pm

    @meengla

    yes, it is so hard to imagine what this country has become. back in 60 or 70s we were about art, culture, peace, good food, festivities
    and now these mullahas have hijacked this country with help of corrupt leader and corrupt military and intelligence agencies.

    i saw the Muslim “shahib’s” interview too. He was saying…u people shld be grateful cause we were not that harsh…..and that such nationwide censure is not going to discourage them…”saza to deene ho gee”…oh really…but what these criminal psycho and sociopaths dont know is that it is pakistan, not afghanistan….the loud and obvious public outrage should open their eyes. we are a country where we had elected a female prime minister…..pakistanis on average are moderate and open minded…. this person should be put in jail….
    also i think chief justice owes this to nation…we had supported his cause…now he has to take most strict action aganist this barbariansim, which has ashamed pakistanis globally and treat all people reponsible in this shameless act aganist a young child .. to set a precedence once and for all

  139. Neena says:
    April 4th, 2009 9:12 pm

    Nice points Meengla and thanks for acknowledging Liberal Pakistanis. You know even after Gen Zia brainwashing most Pakistanis support secular parties and that

  140. amina khan from the north pakistan says:
    April 4th, 2009 10:19 pm

    i wish that i can just kill all these so called mulas. today i am losing my mind………….for how long our women will to go through this? we all are saying that it is not Islamic, but it is happening most of the time in Muslim countries. today i just have no word…………………..i want to share a poem with you guys.
    Silence
    Too many women in too many countries
    speak the same language of silence.
    My grandmother was always silent, always aggrieved
    only her husband had the cosmic right (or so it was said)
    to speak and be heard.
    They say it is different now.
    (After all, I am always vocal and my grandmother
    thinks I talk too much)
    But sometimes I wonder.
    When a woman shares her thoughts, as some women do,
    graciously, it is allowed.
    When a woman fights for power, as all women would like
    to, quietly or loudly, it is questioned.
    And yet, there must be freedom

  141. Osman says:
    April 4th, 2009 10:58 pm

    The only hope I have here is with teh Chief Justice and his suo moto. I hope he makes an examle of thes guys, sepcially this Muslim Khan guy. Certainly a case for treason can be made against him for even suggesting that justice should be done by vigilantes.

  142. Imran says:
    April 4th, 2009 11:10 pm

    we need to learn to accept women as human beings first and foremost….why when we refer to role or respect of women we have to refer them as maa, baitee or bewee….no she is a human being first and foremost….

  143. UMAIR says:
    April 4th, 2009 11:24 pm

    I really think that the lawyers should start taking the Taliban to court. For fitna but also for anything else that they can. That is how they got Al Capone and that is what we should do with these criminals.

  144. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 5th, 2009 12:29 am

    Another Drone attack and usually anti-Shariah guys would close their eyes like Pigeons and would not dare to comment on it:

    tinyurl.com/c92p4t

    The day these wannabe intellectuals start raising voice against these incidents rather than singing praises of Uncle Sam then things will really start getting changed in positive direction but,,, how can they? they can’t lose the chance to live heaven on earth..they can’t raise voice against those who feel them one way or other.

    And it’s interesting to read that everyone here has become a spokesman of FOX and CNN and all know what’s going on

  145. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 5th, 2009 12:31 am

    “feel them one way or other” should be read as “feed them one way or other”

  146. Muslim bin Muslim says:
    April 5th, 2009 12:31 am

    I REALLY THINK WE TALK TOO MUCH ABOUT ISLAM. If half the people here talked half as much about Islam as they do and practiced even a fraction of it, we woudl all be better off.

  147. Danish says:
    April 5th, 2009 1:22 am

    Someone used the phrase KAFIR TALIBAN somewhere. I think we should just make a rule to always use that. Not only for the Taleban but also for all their supporters and apologists here and even more on the Pakistaniat’s facebook space.

  148. muhammad shanil says:
    April 5th, 2009 2:11 am

    i agree with danish’s comment wholeheartedly.i m disgusted and saddened by the shameful defense of atrocities of the religious fundamentalists by mushtaq minhas on bolta pakistan.The whole media is full of apologists and supporters of the taliban.they deflect any attempt to criticise the atrocities by bringing up drones and afghanistan.they are very influential in building up support in the public at large as objective media outlets like dawn and daily times have very limited reach as compared to the millions of illeterates who r glued to their tv screens and get their opinions shaped by these rightwings tv anchors.ATP should do an article of the effect of these tv anchors on building up support for the fanatics by presenting them as true muslims.

  149. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 5th, 2009 2:36 am

    Awesome Danish.!!

    Talibans and right wing zealots call everyone Kaafir who does not believe in their ideology hence they are condemn by others but now here I see that so called intellectuals chanting”Kaafir” for those who don’t agree with their ideology. My darling friend Mufti D_a_n just labeled me a Kaafir because I don’t agree with his belief(which he considers Islam). Amazing

    You proved my point that anti-Taliban people are not lesser fascists and hypocrite than right wing zealots. The only difference is that you guys wear jeans and designer suits and right wing zealots don’t. They eat Naswar while you enjoy Red Label. This is the reason I never take you guys credible enough to discuss something serious. How one fascist group can condemn others? it’s like one dacoit condemns other.

    Adil, IFaqeer and Raza Rumi, as I always say you guys that you guys should work hard to clean up the filth exist in your own community(The anti-Talibans). Making such posts might create traffic for a while(couldn’t be it done by publishing porn too if traffic is the only objective?) but can’t bring improvement among your own people. Bring reforms in your own groups, disown the fascists and extremist elements in your society and I will the first one to support you. Try it once, just try! it will not make you feel low at all… If can’t then don’t assume others to give you respect and consider credible. This site could play a vital role to initiate an operation cleanup in liberal groups and could make things better but.. seems it’s tough ask, doesn’t it?

  150. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 5th, 2009 2:51 am


    Shia women would be banned from working or receiving an education without their husbands

  151. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 5th, 2009 3:28 am

    Any protest for this poor chap? Or he would be ignored because he is a “Man” and usually we are so “soft” with our ladies that we even do not mention that that there was no video published of the guy who was also flogged along with the girl. *grin*

    http://tinyurl.com/pakistanius

    It would be interesting to see that whether Adil Najam and Co finds it “disturbing” and register their protest against it on the blog and on other places.

  152. April 5th, 2009 3:56 am

    I don’t know how muslim world existed before 1977 , I don’t know how muslim countries other than Pakistan, Afghanistan, KSA and few others , exist now. Since I was born in 70′s , got my school, college education in 80′s and 90′s , here is how my brain had been hard-wired to believe in the following:
    1. All the girls who shake hands with “na-mahrem” are “be-haya” and “be-sharam”… I live in Europe , my wife usually will shake hands with “na-mahrems” , although I won’t have any objections to her but somewhere in my mind I’ll have this “be-haya” and “be-sharam” thingee , I remember when I was 15-16 year old , most of my elders one generation above will talk about how General Zia’s wife might have shook hands with American President…. and they would condemn him of being hypocrite because he preached Islam, but his wife “will shake hands with ‘na-mahrem’ ” which is against Islam.
    2. I am programmed to believe that all girls/women who wear half-sleeves shirts with jeans and do not take “do-patta” are shameless creatures… when I was in university in Pakistan it was in fact considered “OK” to tease (sorry for bad translation the urdu word we used was “chaiRna”) them, since there was a question mark on such girl’s character.
    3. Even though spending a whole decade in West and working with “Kuffar” , every time I shake hand with a lady , I am hesitant somewhere in my mind or heart.
    4. During my teens I was always told and taught by my elders “Islam is the way of life” , Saudi is still considered by my parents and my elders (one generation above me) as the heaven on earth. But when I went to Saudi to work there few years back I ran from there with my family when someone told me “if Matuawwa found that my wife is going alone with a na-mahrem, they would hand out lashes to my wife. I was also told that if a women is raped by a rapist usually both rapists and women will be meted out punishment as it would be very hard for the women to prove that she was not willing partner in the rap. Remember punishment could be anything from lashes to “stone to death”….
    5. Few years back in 90′s , BB (Benazir) once talked about “barbaric” punishments , there was big hue and cry about them. I also felt disgusted that how BB can describe “Islamic” punishments as “barbaric” , the religion that is “complete way of life”…
    6. I know why I am finding it hard like many others to say that handing out lashes to a young girl is “barbaric” however just like I have an internal hesitance when shaking hands with a lady but I still do, I would condemn this act as barbaric and inhuman and consider it unislamic and against the teachings of Islam, but I do believe in “Second Aya” of “Sura Noor” , I do believe in Quran and Islam as Complete way of life … but I would say this act was un-islamic.

    Let me quote the most liberal of “Islamic scholars” who is considered by many other of his compatriots as “kafir”, however you would understand my dilemma when even the most “liberal” scholar of Islam find it hard to “condemn” this act.
    It is the ninth letter to “Tahira”
    http://www.tolueislam.com/Urdu/tkn/tkn.htm

    about “Parda kay mutalliq” , I shall try to translate it in English.
    At page 116 in “Tahira kay naam khatoot” , Mr. Ghulam Ahmed Pervez states that:

    As a side note , in the verse of Sura Noor describe above, needs some explanation which will be beneficial. Few days back a non-muslim member of the assembly objected that you want to implement a Quranic system in which punishment for fornication is 100 lashes. On this our apologist muslim members were so embarrassed that if it were in their control they would have thrown out (maazallah ) the verse about this “BARBARIC” punishment from Quran. And then have told the critics triumphantly that they were things of past , in the new edition of Quran there is no such verse of the dark ages. But this was not possible for these poor souls , therefore they came up with the excuse that Quran has put the condition of 4 witness who saw the crime with their own eyes and since nobody even does a lawful sexual act in front of any body let alone an unlawful act. So therefore the crime of fornication can never be proved against anyone therefore there won’t any “barbaric” punishment for them. With this logic our muslim members were very happy that they have saved Quran from a big objection.

    Please excuse my bad translation.

    Our the last couple of day I have several blogs , watched a lot of tv talk shows , listened to the scholars and I feel sorry for Adil Najam who said

    There are those who will try to make this a story about what Pakistan or Islam is. Such bigoted approaches are to be resisted. This is not a story about what Pakistan is. This is clearly not about what Islam is. This is a story about what the enemies of Islam and enemies of Pakistan are doing.

    Because for some enemies of Islam are the “Taliban” who meted out punishment to the poor girl and for others enemies of Islam are the one who “released” this video and using this video to prove Islam as “Barbaric” religion :)….
    Would Adil Najam help me which enemies of Islam he is talking about?

  153. WORLD CITIZEN says:
    April 5th, 2009 6:25 am

    THE VIOLENCE WILL CONTINUE SADLY IN THE NAME OF ISLAM, WHICH IS SUPPOSEDLY A PEACEFUL RELIGION.

    IT IS BECAUSE OF THE DOGMATIC ATTITUDE THAT ONLY MY INTERPRETATION IS CORRECT AND YOURS – WRONG; FURTHER MORE I HAVE THE HOLY RIGHT TO DESTROY YOU FOR THE SAME.

    WHY PEOPLE CAN NOT BE EDUCATED SO THAT THEY ARE EMPOWERED TO INTERPRET AND ALLOWED TO LIVE THEIR LIVES ACCORDINGLY?

  154. faisal says:
    April 5th, 2009 7:20 am

    Disgusting act, but people of Swat wanted this, they fought brutal war against kafir Pakistani army where they slit soldiers throats and all that to WIN sharia imposition.

    I don’t think people of Swat are unhappy so why the rest of Pakistan should feel bad about this? They wanted this and they got it. Time to rejoice and be proud for them.

  155. Babar says:
    April 5th, 2009 8:38 am

    @Akbar

    Well taliban accepted this as well. So he was a Pakistani Vietnamese :D
    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/front-page/baitullah-says-his-men-responsible-for-attack

    This all is just too weird.

  156. imran says:
    April 5th, 2009 12:09 pm

    @adnan siddiquie

    HELLO !!!!!!!!
    no matter how hard you will try, mr adnan, we have no sympathies with your taliban and talibanee thought…OK?
    call us hypoctite or whatver….we dont want your way of life and your oppressive shria…if by saying this we are “kafir” you still need to pack your shria ki patari and go leave for some where more conducive for your cave-age ideoligies….hmmm maybe afghanistan…i am sure you would love to raise your family in afghanistan, where any man walking on the road will have right to beat up your women, in the name of shria….wll serve you v well ….

    also i ALSO object about calling talibans KAFIR, cause its insult to kafirs…. in all fairness…they should not be equated with kafirs…they are blood hounds, hungry for human flesh, who are ifesting human lives….rapist, they sexually abuse children in mudrassahs, and mass murderes whose suicide bombs kill indiscrminanlty….dont insult kafirs, but calling these talibans ( qoomay dajal, yajooj majooj) kafirs

  157. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    April 5th, 2009 1:27 pm

    @Imran: start living in Utopia then :-)

    We should not believe in following news because people living in US and other part of Pakistan know much about SWAT then residents.

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=73791

  158. imran says:
    April 5th, 2009 1:46 pm

    yes yes
    what their leader confessed on natinal tv should not be trusted…we saw and heard the interview..Mr.
    but u want us to believe it never happened..at least yu people are seeing the public pressure of pakistanis…and yr talibanee friends are realizing its not afghanizatn where they can beat up women on roads……

    you are pathetic…i will say no more to you….i dont have time for Jahils like u

  159. Pakistani says:
    April 5th, 2009 1:58 pm

    Thank you Adnan for pointing out that the spokesman of the Taliban was LYING on national TV.

    I guess with all teh sins of these Talibans, lying is the least of them.

    I appreciate your pointing this out to all of us.

  160. Khazina says:
    April 5th, 2009 2:54 pm

    …….So what’s up with BBC reporting Syed Javed DCO Swat saying he personally spoke with the couple and both deny the incident. Who in the hell was the girl/boy in the video? And what about Muslim Khan Taliban spokesperson defending the lashing? Is the civilian government operative (Syed Javed DCO) sleeping on the driving seat? What an idiot? Or are we all over-reacting???

  161. imran says:
    April 5th, 2009 3:22 pm

    listen….of course govt offcials are gng to say it was all lie…cause it exposes their incompetence and criminal negligence in handing over swat to these blood hounds…so are you surprised that they are saying it is a lie…even if the couple comes on tv and say it never happened. it makes no difference you know why
    because that criminal psychopath muslim khan said on tv that “saza to dainee ho gee”…and he said that ager sahee qazi faislaa kerta to sungsaar ker daitay..///yanee we should be grateful that it is just lashing and not stoning…SETIOUSLY…..the issue is this talibanee mentality…where my women can be beaten up and lashed on street for just stepping out of house, or speaking to na mehrum, or making personal choices…..it is NOT ACCEPTABLE AND IS CRIMINAL

  162. Azim Ahmed says:
    April 5th, 2009 3:42 pm

    This is a fake video. The purpose is to jeopardize the peace deal.

    Let’s not over-react without confirming authenticity of the video. It’s very easy to produce such videos.

    Azim

  163. Anon says:
    April 5th, 2009 3:57 pm

    @ Mian Khan “If Anon you believe in what you have written, then why you and people like you are not asking to at least publish the trial of Kalama-Tayyabah reciter in Pakistan national Assembly in 1974???
    I don

  164. Hilal says:
    April 5th, 2009 4:21 pm

    I am from swat and my plea is what ever we believe and what ever we think…least, at the beginning of every comment… CONDEMN this barbaric act in strong words!!!

    I CONDEMN every act discriminating female from male. I CONDEMN THE CRIMINAL TALIBANS and I condemn the people who were deciding, executing, helping and watching the this barbaric act by being present there in person!!!!

    This is very interesting to see when matters come to religion we become SHOTAR MORGH and hide our heads in the ground thinking the event is over!

    There are big discussions about the authenticity of the clip, about the place. Super spoke person of the gang of Taliban Muslim khan first accepted the event, then denied that this never happened in swat and now presenting some kids involved in another criminal act at Dakorak in Charbagh.

    Other people are undermining the event by terming it conspiracy against the agreement between Mullah Sufi Muhammad and NWFP government.

    There are others who just fall into the traps of Mullahs discussing the Islamic (man made Sharia based completely on the ideas and conjectures of bunch of people) legal aspect of it.

    This is very simple, some people are holding by force a weak helpless child and beating her brutally. There is no complication, the whole event is barbaric, brutal, wild and inhuman!!!

    I am from swat and the language used in the clip is 100% from swat (for the information of Muslim khan and who ever doubting the place where it took place). Not only the language who ever has little bit of knowledge of swat and it’s culture, they will know the dresses, shoes (the trade mark of swat Taliban) and many other elements seen in the clip are from swat.

    for those who term it as conspiracy, are ugly mark on the Pakistani society. They have taken the agreement for granted and have completely turned blind eyes to the crimes of Taliban. Instead terming the video conspiracy they should start investigating and exposing the real face of the criminals of the society.

    Now finally to the Mullah brainwashed, can anyone show me in the Quran that a woman is not allowed to go out of the house either alone or with NA MUHARRAM??? Or Can any one show me the 34 flogging for any crime in Quran? Can any one show me in the Quran that bunch of stupid ignorant can decide a case or execute a punishment. when it comes to self interest Mullahs of Pakistan can make mountain out of molehill (RAI KA PAHAR BANANA) but they simply fail to explain the balance between welfare state based on Quranic system and the punishments what so ever mentioned in Quran. If there is mention of flogging in Surah e Noor for fornication, what are responsibilities of a society, state or people in charge??? Is the Islamic system starting from punishments or from welfare, decent living, basic human rights, freedom and respect??? Is it so difficult to get into the thick brain of Mullahs????

  165. zakoota says:
    April 5th, 2009 4:35 pm

    100% fake video —–> done to propagate Islam more negatively!

    Pakistan Taliban —-> deny that this was shot in Swat or Tribal Areas of Pakistan. Chances of this shot in Afghanistan can’t be ruled out (Specially when indian terrorist agency RAW is working there in close association with some fractions of Pashtoons)

    Released—–> to jeopardize the peace deal

    In case of truth (which is highly unlikely) —–> highly condemnable!

    BUT —–> what about Dr Afia Siddiqi? what about 2000 women slaughtered in Lal Masjid? What about over 500,000 innocent women and children killed in Iraq and Afghanistan over years after invasion (Source: Lancet Magazine) What about thousands of innocent Palestinian women and children target killed in recent wars?

    Stop —–> criticizing and posting of these videos until and unless the authenticity of these are guaranteed by reliable sources!

    Hadith-e-Mubaraka —–> “aik shakhs kay liyay jhoota hona kafi hai jo suni sunai baat ko beghair tasdeeq kiyay agay bata dey” (Extract not exact translation)

  166. Centrist says:
    April 5th, 2009 5:39 pm

    Isn’t this what the Swati People wanted? May be hold a referendum of some kind.

  167. Harris Siddiqui says:
    April 5th, 2009 5:45 pm

    The moving ticker on the T.V report is the funniest of all. “Awaam Hairat Zada”. Why are the people surprised? Even a 4 year old monkey could have predicted this after Swat was handed to the ilk of Fazlullah and Sufi Muhammad.

    What price are people willing to pay for peace?

  168. imran says:
    April 5th, 2009 6:02 pm

    @ hilal

    i wrote twice the answrs to these people who were saying its a fake video.but it never went through..
    anyway as you said this is just an attempt to underplay the gravity of whole situation and this is either dne by those who are corrupt part of corrpt govt. or have soft corner for criminal talibanee mentality

    well said my friend, e word u said is well said….god bless u

  169. DAUD says:
    April 5th, 2009 6:33 pm

    True or false, the one good thing this video has done is to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that MULLAHS LIE.

    Fist Maulvi Muslim Khan – the official spokesman for Taliban – comes on TV and says the video is real and they will do this and even more again. Then teh same Mualvi Muslim Khan gives a statement that it is not a real video. So, either he was lying the first time or the second time. But he was certainly lying.

    These Taliban kill, they mistreat girls, they lie. And they think they are going to make the rest of us Muslims.

    The people who are most pathetic, of course, are the ones who are actually defending these lying murderers.

  170. Farrukh says:
    April 5th, 2009 7:03 pm

    Mr. Adnan Siddiqi is right. We shoudl be condemning both the Taliban atrocities and the killings by these religious extremists and sicide bombers as well as the drones, etc. by USA. I condemn both.

    But why is it, Mr. Adnan Siddiqi, that we have always seen you defending teh suicide bombers and Taliban and condemning only the drones. Can you please condemn all violence by the Taliban too. Just once say that these Taliban are murderers and criminals. Its not that difficult. If you want, you can also add whatever you want about USA.

    If you can’t do that, woudl that not make YOU the hypocrite?

  171. meengla says:
    April 5th, 2009 7:44 pm

    It looks like poor @Adnan Siddiqui and a few others along his line of reasoning are bearing the brunt of the attacks in this blogspace. To me, even or especially being a ‘liberal’, does not bring any joy. I want to hear ‘the other’ side.

    We want people to speak out their hearts and their minds. Candidly. I don’t think there should be any witchhunting by calling others as ‘Kafirs’ or ‘Animals’ etc. This blogspace is, to my knowledge, the best place for Pakistanis where arguments from both sides are presented in forceful ways. And so the blogspace should serve a purpose where people can change their pre-conceived ideas.

  172. readinglord says:
    April 5th, 2009 7:58 pm

    @Hilal

    You said:

    “Is the Islamic system starting from punishments or from welfare, decent living, basic human rights, freedom and respect???”

    You have raised a very pertinent question. Islam was in fact every thing, from a reaction to a Talibani type jahalat of Mushrakiin-e-Makkah in its Makky dour to the revival of that very ‘Jahalat’ today in the Pakiland; the State, the extremists claim was established in the name of Islam.

    The video of the girl flogged by Taliban in swat is showing the true face of the Talibani Jahalat and barbarism. As it is, it is immaterial whether the video is real or fake. It, in fact, represents the epitome of the Talibani Islamic Sikha-Shahi in video form.

    There was another news report of a similar type in a jail in the Pakiland; a man accused with ‘Touheen-e-Rasdalat’ was lynched in a jail by prisoners, but our media did not dare to take due notice of it.

    What can we do now but appeal to the world to save us from this barbaric sharia of the Taliban in the name of Islam as our government seems to have become totally irrelevant in this respect.

  173. Humaira says:
    April 5th, 2009 8:41 pm

    I agree with Meengla and Adnan Siddiqi that labeling the Taliban and “Kafir” and using bad words for them only brings us down to their own level and then there is no difference between them and us. They are criminals because the act they commit is criminal. But who is Kafir or not is only for Allah to decide so let us leave it to Allah. We have already sinned in teh past by making that determination as if it was ours. So, please let us not do what we are condemning the Taliban of doing.

  174. imran says:
    April 5th, 2009 8:46 pm

    agreed humaira
    i have said earlier as well
    let us not humilitae kafreeb by calling talibanees kafir

    kafir (hindus, christian jews, atheists) are way way better human beings….look at charity work done by red crescent, look at mother terese…and many many more examples…of so called kafirs….

    only word suitable for taliabeenes is criminals psyco/socio paths, spineless cold blooded blood hounds

  175. Humaira says:
    April 5th, 2009 8:49 pm

    Imran, you are missing my point. Our anger and disgust is justified. But even n that if we demean and use such words that we get angry when they use them for us, then what is the difference between them and us. What makes them dangerous is the hatred and contempt that they have for anyone who disagrees with them. Such hatred that they kill for it. If our hatred reaches the same heights then we become the same but for different cause. Lets not let that happen.

  176. April 5th, 2009 11:33 pm

    @Farrukh: I think I am the only one here on board who rejects the fascism of both right and left wing. Those who have been chanting against Talibans are those who hapily endorse the fascism of left wing secularists and liberals and it’s not a hidden secret.

    Adil and CO will never make new post after each DRONE attack because it would be giving them tough time in US where they reside and where they are fed by those who fund them but Adil and other liberal lefts will make post if something is done by those who they despise or paid to despise them.

    The Pakistani Society needs to getrid of both left and right wing fundos. Thankfully both dont exist in majority and are never took seriously by majority of Pakistanis.

  177. April 5th, 2009 11:36 pm

    In short there is no difference between floggers and bloggers who have been chanting in cyberspace

  178. Karachite says:
    April 6th, 2009 12:11 am

    Perhaps you people should read Pakistani newspapers.

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=170821

    The flogging was by people in SWAT a few months before the end of the fighting/war. They were running around instituting their own backyard ‘Shariah’ law. The government formed that peace agreement so that WE (as in they, the government) could enforce Shariah law to prevent people from distorting it and doing things like this.

    The key thing here is that this peace agreement was against the United States’ wishes. This video was held by media companies for months until it was released just now, to foster division between the government and the peace treaty.

    If that peace treaty breaks, you will see much, much worse than this. Even the BBC and Western news organizations have reported that this sort of vigilante-backyard-Shariah has gone down with the new agreement and government-run Shariah courts.

    The other thing I have issue with is the President and Prime Minister and other government officials condemning this as barbaric yet their own officials and law enforcement illegally arrest, detain, and abuse people all the time. They rape and sic dogs on the women in normal jail cells. That’s okay? Why don’t they start by working on that? Zardari himself used to kidnap girls, and God knows what he did with them, did everyone forget? The country elected this sort of man as its President but then has a problem with rural backwardsness?

    On top of that the Taliban themselves have said that this violates how a flogging punishment according to Shariah should be carried out. Of course that doesn’t mean much, it could just be damage control.

    However, according to the newspapers, the Taliban flogged 25 men and 2 women in the past 2 years. This is verified. To say that this sort of thing happens all the time would also be to fall into the sort of Western propaganda that seeks to start a war in our backyard.

    If you read Western social news sites like Digg, Reddit you will find a surprising amount of knowledge and even SYMPATHY for the Taliban. Why? The USA is being forced to confront the fact that their government is more conniving and deceitful and corrupted than they had imagined. I saw one user comment from Digg something like “I would rather get that kind of a ‘flogging’ than be thrown into jail for years on false charges. There are videos of cops physically abusing women being upvoted on this site every week. At least the Taliban kept her clothes on.”

    And lest people forget, we need any kind of peace at all in the tribal regions so we can develop the area and root out fundamentalism at its source… poverty and lack of education.

    And lest you people ALSO forget, all of the values that you have had beaten into you by the British and the Americans over the past century or two… those same two countries pushed the Taliban into Pakistan and caused this mess. While they stayed in Afghanistan, we had no problems. Most of Afghan culture is compatible with Taliban culture. But now half of Afghanistan has been displaced into our country.

    The only way to save the country is to get up and do something. People who sit and issue official-sounding condemnations of the Taliban, government, USA, etc etc are laughable. So who is left? You. And now you can’t escape Pakistan for the West either, they are going to come crashing down harder than anything.

    You are worrying about attacking the Swati Taliban who themselves want to keep the peace agreement in effect and want the Pakistani government to enforce Shariah. But you don’t worry about the Waziri Taliban of Baitullah Mehsud who are at war with Pakistan and are threatening multiple attacks per week. Nor do you realize the way to prevent the latter is through the former.

  179. Karachite says:
    April 6th, 2009 12:23 am

    For those of the MQM persuasion:

    “Lashing out at Ulema who had issued statements in support of flogging, Altaf said as per the Quranic verses, the girl could only be punished if four pious eyewitnesses, who prayed five times a day, were produced. He added if these people failed to produce such witnesses, then the people who had flogged the girl should be whipped publicly 80 times.”

    He has a good point. But Hanafi law also says a judge is allowed a discretionary punishment of up to 40 lashes. Which is what the ‘Taliban’ do. Go around sentencing people committing any sort of ‘offense’ at all to 39 lashes.

    There’s more to the law than even that, but that is why the government is now running Shariah there. If we stop, there will be war again.

    He’s also plainly lying about this having taken place after March. This happened back in January.

  180. Farrukh says:
    April 6th, 2009 12:43 am

    Karachite, your argument is stale as well as wrong. Another Taliban supporter ashamed even to give his name.

    Does not matter when the video was taken. If this is what their shariat is then we do not want it. We just dont want you Taliban types. Period.

    Stop finding excuses in everything in outsiders. There is plenty of outrage for the Americans and drone attacks on this forum and elsewhere but you Taliban types cannot forever distract us from your murders of Muslims and Pakistanis by this misinformation.

  181. D_a_n says:
    April 6th, 2009 12:47 am

    @ Aziz Ahmed…Zakoota….

    That (non) Muslim Khan is RIGHT THERE ON VIDEO SAYING THAT YES….HIS MEN …DID…..IT! so can you please stop this LYING….argue your point of view no matter how sick it might be but for heavens sake dont LIE over and over and over again….that this video is fake….

    the person you were defending has accepted it….

  182. imran says:
    April 6th, 2009 1:18 am

    yes for the millionth time….@ karachite
    we dont want this type of (or any type of) shariat…we dont want no talibanees….dont tell us…that our security is only possible if we side with talibanese…if that is the case i would prefer to die….rather than side with these criminals…as tipu sulatan said “shair ki aik din ki zindagee…geedar ki so sala zindagi say behtur hai”….so we dont want any benefits which come through talibanee blood hounds….NO NO NO …we dont want talibans…THEY NEED TO GET OUT OF OUR COUNTRY…you are more than welcome to pack your bags and leave with them…
    STOP LYING, STOP DEFENDING CRIMINALS BUTCHERS, ABUSERS OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN…AND STOP LYING THAT WEST HAS NO JUSTICE SYSTEM …STOP LYING

  183. Taha says:
    April 6th, 2009 2:14 am

    If I will be in the government I will shoot all these so called Molwes and take control of all the madras. Do you what you can do or blow your self and kill some Muslim and go to paradise but we will not accept this kind of transnational of Islam.

  184. Jusathot says:
    April 6th, 2009 5:56 am

    Karachite, what we have here is

  185. D_a_n says:
    April 6th, 2009 8:25 am

    @ justathot…

    your analogies are mind boggling….
    you call folks like me anti-sharia…this is based on the assumption that what you see before you is actually sharia…which only shows that you have no idea what a Utopian Islamic Society looks like…

    …..and the beards ‘so-called extremists’ implying that they arent really extremists…. …nicely tried I must say..almost slips under the radar…

    and THEN…you call folks like me Khwarji’s…which really is ridiculous….and again shows that you HAVE NO idea what the khwarji’s were and what they wanted and why Hazrat – e- Ali (RA) made war on them and put to death thousands of them to avoid their cancerous fitna spreading further….

    now…consider if you will the behaviour of me and others on this forum and compare with the behaviour of the beards and their sympathizers…..the beards kill because they consider people like me heretics…never mind the prayers I say and the Kalima that I recite and the beard that I myself sport….and after you have read what the khwarji’s actually were and how they viewed even Hazrat – e Ali (RA)….THEN come back and give this idiotic comparison…THEN tell me who is more of a khwarji…

    Ive had it with half wits like you who have never bothered to educate themselves on the details of our faith and our history and who was whom and who did what….

    Pick up a Book man…and maybe you will have more than ‘justathot’ …..and will learn to develop numerous thoughts and a collection of informed thoughts will set you on the path towards a measure of rationality! Pick up a book…..i’d advise you to start with something like Thomas the Engine type book and work your way up!
    just ‘a’ thought indeed!

  186. Karachie says:
    April 6th, 2009 8:33 am

    LOL.

    Farrukh: “Karachite, your argument is stale as well as wrong.”

    What is my argument?

    Let me dumb down my post into one paragraph:

    I was just saying that this video was Taliban’s Shariah done before the peace treaty. The population themselves want Shariah, if you don’t believe me, go and see for yourself. I also explained how it was possible for the Taliban to do this within the context of Sunni law at all (where they took a correct principle, and where they went deviant with it).

    In fact, the Taliban themselves acknowledge how they went about things was completely wrong.

    Which leads us to the next point.

    You all hate flogging. In that case, I don’t need to argue with you, because you hate the Qur’an. Even Altaf Hussein doesn’t hate flogging, he is himself quoting the Qur’an and talking about HOW it was applied, rather than it applying at all.

    If you really hate Shariah to that extent, then you also hate most Pakistanis, Islam, and the Pakistani constitution.

    It is plainly obvious that the government must enforce Shariah for now to keep the peace, and while doing so, rebuild the infrastructure and re-educate the people to tackle REAL fundamentalism and extremism (those who attack Pakistan).

    I hope you are able to leave Pakistan for lands that are more to your liking. If not the West, then India certainly would suffice. They all speak Urdu, Punjabi, etc there and have the similar culture.

    You guys really have nothing in common with the average Pakistani. It’s amazing how being sheltered, isolated, and elitist can do that to the “upper” echelon of Pakistani society.

    And if you are one of those who just hate the punishments of Shariah but see no problem with the marriage/divorce/inheritance law and all that, then you can continue to straddle the fence for only so long. Realize that no politician from any party, MQM included, will bash any Shari’ Hudd punishment. The Hudood ordinances will likely never apply to Sindh or Punjab, the population just does not want it. NWFP is an entire other matter. Pukhtoon culture is synonymous with Shariah and Islamic culture (combined with an alien element of tribalism which is the problem). It is not like Punjabi culture which is essentially Majhail Sikh culture or Sindhi culture or Mohajir culture (which is Hindustani culture).

    As for the Salafis and Ahl-e-Hadith who want to start insulting Imam Abu Hanifa and say that following Sunni law is deviant: Save it. More than 95% of the world’s Muslims are Sunni and at least 30% of those are Hanafis. Hanafi madhab was also enforced in actual nation states and empires. The Mughals, the Ottomans, etc. Even the British enforced Hanafi Shariah while they were here. Did you forget all about that? The English translation of the Hidaya was done by a British guy hundreds of years ago. Not to mention that you (Salafis/Ahl-e-Hadith) are the real terrorists, and Osama Bin Laden is your Shaykh. Literalism (interpreting the Qur’anic and Hadith texts literally outside of the context of legal and scholarly interpretation) is the path to losing your intelligence and becoming extremist. The Hanafi madhab is the most liberal of the four schools of law in Sunni Islam. Even the Shi’a, Salafis, etc in the MMA all want Hanafi Shariah in Pakistan because they know it is the only kind that can actually be used in a legal system due to precedence. Might want to consult with your religious superiors next time before you lash out like that.

  187. Karachite says:
    April 6th, 2009 8:53 am

    ahsan: You might also like to know that all of what you describe is Saudi Shariah which is Salafi Shariah which is based around rejecting Imam Abu Hanifa and the legal rulings of the Hanafi madhab which do away with all such things. How ironic. You bash these things then also bash the scholar who defeated them.

    I also wonder how many of you would rather spend time in a Pakistani jail over taking a flogging of the kind you see in the video (not even leaving marks if it is done in accordance with the Hanafi fiqh). Where you’ll be attacked, beaten, tortured, raped, and held without charge indefinitely. THAT is YOUR alternative. That is the law that YOU prefer. No thanks.

    Benazir Bhutto never insulted Shariah or the Hudood Ordinances like that either. In fact, she helped create the Afghani Taliban. Nawaz Sharif is himself pro-Shariah for those areas which overwhelmingly want it (such as some in the NWFP). Even Altaf Hussein isn’t bashing Shariah yet. You guys who are anti-Shariah have little in common with the country’s politics… with any of it.

    As for my opinion, I am not defending the actual act at all, I am only discussing the nation’s response to it. I think instituting a tazeer (discretionary) punishment of 30 lashes over having an electrician visit your house is insane, and having it done by strange men in front of a crowd in public is even more insane and horrific, but I am not surprised that it happened considering SWAT was in the middle of a war-zone then and the government was roving bands of Taliban and the judges were militia commanders, not actual Ulema. According to reports from independent (and anti-Islamic Western media), these kinds of things are dying down wherever the government’s Shariah courts have jurisdiction.

    I agree with those who say we don’t want the Taliban to institute Shariah (to say it is “Taliban’s Shariah” is a misnomer because they just use normal Sunni law, the error is in the application). I would rather have the government do it if the people in these areas want it (which they do). It is Pakistan, and Pakistan’s government should be responsible for all law and order, including Shariah, which according to the constitution, is the law of the land.

    It is the only way to take the loyalties of the people away from the Taliban and back to the normal government. Of course stopping attacks on villages by random US air force drones will also help but that is a different problem.

    I am very worried for Pakistan, not over Swat (by the way, the dialect/accent in the video of Pashto is the kind spoken in Swat, these are locals, not even Waziris, and for those who don’t understand Pashto, she isn’t screaming about the pain she is repeatedly apologizing for “it” and saying she swears by her family she will not do “it” again). She promptly got up and walked off, escorted by her brother.

    Some of the Westerners commenting on the video even remarked that they received worser lashings from their parents.

  188. imran says:
    April 6th, 2009 9:57 am

    people you know what is ironic is that in quran in sora noor (probably) that father-in-law is mehrum….

    lanaat ho moulwiyoon ki jahalat per…

  189. Aamir Ali says:
    April 6th, 2009 10:14 am

    @Karachiite

    Since you have decided to speak on behalf of all Pakistanis, including Pashtuns, regarding Shariat and the Taliban, let me respond to you on behalf of Pakhtuns, since I grew up in NWFP.

    Shariat to the Pakhtuns is merely an emotional slogan, and is exploited as such by maulvis and the Taliban. Nobody knows what it actually means, and if Shariat means interference in people’s personal lives, flogging and cutting off hands, then Pakhtuns are not interested in it.

    It is also the right of Pakistanis to oppose Shariat if they see it as harmful, and to reject actions in the name of Shariat, such as flogging. You are not the landlord of Pakistan, or the thekedar of Islam to ask such Pakistanis to move to another country.

    Never forget that Jammatis like you opposed the creation of Pakistan on religious grounds, then happily moved to Pakistan and now want Pakistanis to leave the country on religious grounds.

  190. imran says:
    April 6th, 2009 10:38 am

    well said ammir ali
    yai maulvee, talaibanee, shariat or islam kai thaikadaar….have always and will always be enemies of pakistan…..

    @ karacchite, why shld we leave for india, u and yr jamaat-maulvian shld…cz you people were with indian congress and opposed jinnah and termed him kaafir and called formation of pakistan unislamic

    and lemme REMIND YOU THAT AFGHANISTAN WAS THE ONLY MUSLIM COUNTRY THAT DID NOT ACKNOWLEDGE PAKISATN AS AN INDEPENDENT STATE WHEN IT CAME INTO BEING IN 1947…..

    so if we are not muslims, people u side with in the name of jhotee shariat…r not pakistani….and thus have nor right to live in this country and decide the fate of its people

  191. Centrist says:
    April 6th, 2009 10:44 am

    How far behind are we from the rest of the world! While the West tackles issues on global warming, the ways and means to put the economy on the right track, discussing stem cell research, and discussing religion in a civil manner….what has happened to the “Ijtihadi’s” in Islam? Am I wrong in pleading for education, education, and education for our down-trodden masses? That’s the ONLY solution for a viable state if we have to move forward as a country or we will perish and cease to exist. We have had many life-lines but we are coming to a point that even with divine intervention things are unlikely to change.

  192. April 6th, 2009 11:48 am

    @Karachiite: Bravo my friend but you should not expect something fruitful as Imam Shafai said:

  193. April 6th, 2009 12:10 pm

    Here are my two cents on this unfortunate incident:

    http://bkhan.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/on-fake-video-and-conspiracy-against-islam/

  194. imran says:
    April 6th, 2009 12:22 pm

    @ bhaddir ali
    i read your article. good job…

  195. Hilal says:
    April 6th, 2009 12:42 pm

    What can be the biggest irony of the world that a brother is FORCED to hold (one even wouldn’t hold an animal like this!!!) HIS SISTER to be flogged!!!!

    Where is morality??? what Islam is infect? has Islam come to create air-head, senseless, immoral and lacking common sense people or to develop self-conscious, compassionate, responsible and moral people? Can anyone from any religion of the world give such example of brother holding his sister to be flogged???

    Has anyone noticed the guy flogging SLAPS the brother to hold tight the sister that she wouldn’t move!!!

    This again tells hundred things about the event, the sick mentality of the criminal Talibans and the out come of following blindly the man made SHARIAH.

    If we just for a minute look into this whole event from pure Quranic perspective it becomes clear how sick, ignorant and brutal these criminals are.

  196. Aamir Ali says:
    April 6th, 2009 1:13 pm

    @Adnan Siddiqi

    I doubt Imam Shafai would approve of a bunch of thugs accusing, then beating a helpless young girl in the name of Shariat.

  197. Jusathot says:
    April 6th, 2009 1:45 pm

    @D_A_N

  198. Karachite says:
    April 6th, 2009 3:43 pm

    Aamir: Thank you for your civil response.

    > “Shariat to the Pakhtuns is merely an emotional slogan, and is exploited as such by maulvis and the Taliban. Nobody knows what it actually means, and if Shariat means interference in people

  199. April 6th, 2009 3:49 pm

    @Amir: Wallaho Alam..He is not around so can’t ask him.. most probably He was rather going to find out the truth behind it rather babbling about it and becoming a part of propaganda machine by taking funds from Western

    By the way, The Imam was abused and accused by people of his time just like today Molvis and Alims are accused by so called “Parha Likha Tabqa”. The Imam is still respected by thousands and those who abuse Him and others like Hanifa and Imam Malik are not even remembered anymore.

  200. Karachite says:
    April 6th, 2009 3:58 pm

    I’m responding to this part separately:

    > “Never forget that Jammatis like you opposed the creation of Pakistan on religious grounds, then happily moved to Pakistan and now want Pakistanis to leave the country on religious grounds.”

    This is a very good point. Yes, the JUH of India opposed the creation of Pakistan. They felt they could have dominated a united India (like the Mughals of old). Considering the JUH preceded the Congress Party on almost every original call for independence, I think they earned the right to express their opinions. It was the molvis who were slaughtered by the thousands during the 1857 mutiny. You can even read the opinions of the Brits in the memoirs of their military officers regarding the event, where they all figured the “molvis” would be held as patriots and heroes for generations to come for defending their homeland. The JUH, the entire Deobandi movement, arose out of that. They called for independence before even the Hindus.

    By the way, when I say “Deobandi movement” here, I’m referring to the movement of Islamic education, the Darul Uloom-style Islamic seminary network with its origin in Deoband, not the later definition of Deobandi as a system of belief (to contrast to Barelwi, etc).

    Shah Waliullah Dehlavi laid down the principles of self-governance in his works. That “labour is the real source of wealth and only those who put in the physical and mental labour for the sake of betterment of the society, deserve to possess wealth. People, he believed, are equal and the position of the ruler of a State is no more than that of a common citizen in matter of justice and freedom. Things like right to freedom, security and property, are essential for all, irrespective of religion, race, or colour.”

    And this was all before either the American or French revolutions. His son issued the first major fatwa against British rule in 1803.

    And when the 20th century rolled around, the JUH not only cooperated with the Hindus, they were practically embodying the definition of the term “secular”. They declared non-violent protest as a jihad. The same Ulema whom even the Taliban to this day revere. They tried to set up independent Indian governments in absentia which included Sikhs and Hindus in positions of power. These weren’t theocracies either, they were based on the basic Western model of having a President, Prime Minister, etc but abandoned most of the rest of the British code in favor of homegrown traditional laws (Muslims to be ruled by Islamic law, Hindus by their own, etc). These were in fact, modelled on the constitution of Medina set up by our beloved Prophet (saw).

    Considering they led the charge for Indian independence, why blame them for initially balking at the idea of splitting up India? India was the Muslims’ prize to them. The Indian government to this day, the worst enemy of Pakistan, still gives the original JUH and Deobandis respect for this, including Darul Uloom Deoband. The same ideology which fights them in Kashmir and which they blame for terrorism and extremism now.

    It’s mostly a non-issue. There weren’t any hard feelings. There are enough Ulema to go around. Jinnah had Maulana Shabbir Usmani raise Pakistan’s flag and read his own janazah, remember? Allama Iqbal’s spiritual mentor was Allama Anwar Shah Kashmiri, remember? You’re certainly aware of this being that “Jamaatis” always bring it up.

    Logically speaking, the “Jamaatis” had the right idea. Splitting up the subcontinent was a disaster of epic humanitarian proportions. Millions have died. But Allah knows better and knows what we do not.

    I repeat my original assertion. The only way to stop the use of Shariah as a vehicle for abuse and oppression is for the Pakistani government to take responsibility for its implementation. In fact, according to the constitution of Pakistan, it IS Pakistan’s responsibility.

    According to all reports, it IS working, slowly. Wherever the government is in charge of Shariah, this kind of thing hasn’t happened.

    Nothing else has so far worked, might as well let it play out. The alternative is war, and that is much worse than flogging.

  201. Umar says:
    April 6th, 2009 9:23 pm

    @Karachite:

    How come Allah did not guide these “pious” ulema of deoband and instead guided Jinnah? Something tells me these molvis are not in Allah

  202. Umer says:
    April 6th, 2009 9:33 pm

    @Karachite:

    Hamid Mir claims Molvi Kafayatullah and Hussein Ahmad Madni asked Quid-e-Azam for Rs 50,000 (a large sum in those day when salaries where Rs 25/30 and less). When Quid-e-Azam refused these two deobandi guys went to Indian Congress because Congress was able to give them the money.

    http://jang.com.pk/jang/mar2009-daily/26-03-2009/col6.htm

    Not very principled or dignified.

  203. Aamir Ali says:
    April 6th, 2009 11:59 pm

    @Adnan Siddiqi

    I haven’t taken any funds from West, and neither has the Pakistani media, which circulated the video that shows the Taliban injustice against a young Swati girl. You can make some more the quotations of Imam Shafai in your quest to hide that injustice, the educated will continue to reject it and demand justice.

    @Karachiite
    Whatever self-praise the Jamaatis and mullahs may put on themselves, their record in the creation of Pakistan, and in the uplift of the Muslim community of India is abysmal. The ulema opposed Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, they opposed Allama Iqbal, they opposed Quaid-e-Azam, they opposed All-India Muslim League. The ulema have been wrong on all major decisions including their fantasy that Muslims could dominate a united India, which could be refuted by simple demographics.

    The Constitution, laws and procedures of Pakistan are not emotional slogans, they are documented realities which you can examine for yourself. They deal with ever-expanding subjects concerning state, individual and society. The same goes for English laws which have a long history and long application and require long study. The non-application of Pakistani law/constitution is another matter entirely.

    On the other hand what is Shariat ? A vague concept which in Pakistan gets reduced to interference in personal lives, an obsession with females, and an eagerness to flog, stone and cut off hands. That is why Pakistani Shariat qualifies as an emotional slogan, it is nowhere a substitute legal system.

    Finally regarding re-definition of Islam/Pakistan. The Constitution of Pakistan gives its citizens the right to disagree and dissent , without being branded a kaffir and subject to punishment. That is the spirit of Quaid-e-Azam , whom you Jamaatis still call a kaffir. To give up this natural right of dissent will be to surrender to the mullahs, who are basically as ignorant today as they were 100 years ago.

  204. ATP Administrator says:
    April 7th, 2009 12:38 am

    UPDATE on the Chief Justice’s Suo Moto notice hearings. From THE NEWS:

    ISLAMABAD: The Supreme Court on Monday turned down the government

  205. faiza zaeem says:
    April 7th, 2009 1:29 am

    why any so-called civil society activist has never protested against making women a mere show-piece in stage shows, theatres, fashion shoots, catwalks and entertainment media? Isn’t that a “bahurmati” of womenfolk.

  206. Taha says:
    April 7th, 2009 1:41 am

    This is for every one who think that Sharayt (Taliban sharyat) is the only solution to the problems of Pakistan. First understand it that a vast majority of population of Pakistan is not the same firqa as Taliban are which is Wahabi’s. Who are extremist. So what Taliban plans for all these maslaks kill them all. Pakistan is the land of sofia karams. It was made for this Islam not wahabis Islam majority of whom oppose creation of Pakistan. I don’t know why are we trying to prove these Taliban bandits wrong every one know they are criminals who gathered to earn some profit in the name of Shariyat. Second If you talk about shairat. Do you know when there were real sahriyat in Muslim world, even if a Khalif do some thing wrong an ordinary person can talk about it and tell him to correct it. Do your wahabi’s sharyat or Taliban have such guts to listen. I bet if you say something against the Taliban leader in swat they will hang you. Why do you think that we will support this kind of definition of sharyat.
    I don’t under stand if we talk about the swat incident why you people remember Doctor Afia. It was done by a American who are kafir but what is the difference between him and you if you are doing the same thing in the name of shariat. Shame on every Mulla and every person who are defending Taliban in this barbarian act.
    What about the thousand of innocent Muslims that were killed by these bandits. will you and any Taliban supporter give any explanation to that. There can’t be any explanation or reason for their murders.

  207. D_a_n says:
    April 7th, 2009 5:11 am

    @ Zakoota…

    Refer to the 2nd Video embedded in this post….

    the spokesman is not only admitting this happened…but is going into the details of the case….!!

    can you please stop lying? ive started to develop a rash just by reading such garbage!

  208. The Commie says:
    April 7th, 2009 5:17 am

    @zakoota

    Why u wanna hide ur head in the sand???

    Taliban did much more shameful things in Afghanistan.

    Its amazing how a section of people still in DENIAL MODE.

  209. Taha says:
    April 7th, 2009 6:25 am

    People say Pakistan made in the name of Islam but if Quid Azam know that they have to face this kind of Islam they will not even struggle for independence. We don’t want Sahryat of any Maslak on Pakistan specially dubandi who have no patience against other maslkas and even worst from Taliban. There should be law of Pakistan for every Maslak. See today’s express newspaper that 90% terrorist are form same Maslak

  210. imran says:
    April 7th, 2009 12:35 pm

    it is amzing how these pro-talibanees keep harping the same chord that the video is fake….

    and at least ten of us have refuted this claim by asking what even if video was fake….it is IRRELEVANT…because for the MILLIONTH time your DARLING “ISLAM KHAN” the master criminal mind, accepted that what ever was happening in the “FAKE video” is right and we should have actually stoned the girl…..so you think that GEO interview was also fake

    wake up and realize…that majority of pakistani does not want talibanee paradigm…..we refuse to be dragged back to stone ages…..so now ZIP your lying mouths once and for all

    and also a fellow AAMIR ALI just asked you v intersting questions on the previous page, do you deny all those recorded facts too, abut shameful history of mullahs?

    and it just SHOWS LOW IQ OF PPL LIKE YOU….U KEEP DRAGGING THIS IRRELEVANT FACT THAT VIDEO IS FAKE – BACK INTO ARGUMENT IN YOUR ATTEMPTS TO COVERS THE BLOOD STAINED GROUND CREATED BY TALIBANEES WITH A SMALL DRIED WILTED LEAF…PATHETIC….WE ARE NOT STUPID

  211. huma says:
    April 7th, 2009 2:11 pm

    This video is a clear depiction of where Pakistan is today after almost 52 years of independence. Before prophet Mohammad came to Arabia, Arabs used to burry their baby girls alive in the sand. Before the British came to India, Indians used to burn their girls alive with the dead husbands.
    NOW………soon in near future we shall be saying “Before Obama came to Pakistan young women were forcibly held down and butt-whipped by men”. It should be a reminder of the slavery in the USA and how black slave women were treated here in the USA. Hey Michelle and Barak!!!!!!!!! Please do something meomorable for Pakistani women ..I beg u… How can i help???

  212. Taimr says:
    April 7th, 2009 4:45 pm

    Yes, the propaganda of the Taliban supporters is amazing. My email is being filled by filth from Mullahs trying to argue that the video is real. They are just shameless in spreading lies and not seeing teh truth in front of their nose.

    Of course anyone supporting teh Taliban is already supporting criminals and murderers, so spreading lies is such a small thing for them.

  213. RUSTAM says:
    April 7th, 2009 4:59 pm

    I am amazed at how these mullahs and Taliban supporters lie.

    They keep saying this is not real when the Taliban spokesman has himself said that it is.

    Do they Taliban-supporters have no shame, no fear of God at all. Kuch tou sharam karo.

  214. BILAL says:
    April 7th, 2009 5:15 pm

    Bismillah ur Rahman ur Raheem

    I think these Taliban are agents to give bad name to Islam. I cannot imagine any real Muslim coudl do or support this.

    I am ashamed of them and used to think that they wanted real islam but it is clear that they are just Barbarians. But I was wrong.

    Wassalam.

  215. RAFIQUE says:
    April 7th, 2009 8:31 pm

    The Taliban supporters here seem to be saying two opposite things : (a) that the video is fake and could not have happened [which is odd since Taliban spokesman has accepted it] and (b) that the punishment is right. How come?

  216. zakoota says:
    April 7th, 2009 11:18 pm

    Im NOT at all a supporter of Taliban by any chance, not even by far. I hate all illiterate and ignorant and also those who try to exploit the religion by any ways or actions. I have mentioned in my previous posts that if this is true, its highly condemnable. What is sad here is to see that most people are thinking in one track only and do not think from the perspective which Pakistan is facing these days and these kind of videos help the enemy’s cause in making the country more unpopular and secluded.

  217. Farrukh says:
    April 7th, 2009 11:26 pm

    Dear Zakoota

    What is making Pakistan unpopular is not the video but WHAT is actually happening in Pakistan.

    The solution i not hiding that reality but speaking out against what is happening and making clear that real Paksitani are NOT with these Taliban and Jihadis who want to take us back to the caves with these barbaric practices.

    Glad to see you joining your voice with those of sane Pakistanis who reject the barbarism and jahalat.

  218. Akif Nizam says:
    April 8th, 2009 12:43 am

    The video reminds me of the
    blessed occasion of Baqr Eid when a helpless animal is held down by yet larger animals and beheaded while children stand around and clap for joy. With that kind of life long training in desensitization, I’m surprised that so many of us find this video shocking !

  219. DURRANI says:
    April 8th, 2009 9:31 am

    This conversation totally does not make sense.

    First, idiots are talking as if they know that she actually committed adultery … THE ONLY WAY YOU WOUDL KNOW IF IF YOU WERE THE ONE COMMITTING IT YOURSELF. Were you? [anyone can get a fake confession after this much beating!)

    Second, they are discussing if this is teh right punishment. People, have some sense. It does not matter what was done a thousand years ago. Whether it was in Shariah or not, IS THIS THE RIGHT WAY TO DEAL WITH THINGS. WOULD YOU WANT YOUR BABY SISTER TO BE FLOGGED IF SHE WENT TO THE MARKET WITH AN ELDER RELATIVE? What is humanly wrong is wrong. THIS IS WRONG.

  220. bay naam says:
    April 8th, 2009 12:13 pm

    Let the one who has not sinned start the flogging.

  221. inayat says:
    April 8th, 2009 10:13 pm

    What a silly discussion. THIS IS BARBARIC, even if it was practicesd a thousand years ago it shoudl not be practiced today. Can we not get that into our head!!!!

  222. April 9th, 2009 5:54 am

    @inayat
    Although it is as simple as you have described it i.e. “It is BARBARIC” , but there are many hurdles in accepting this truth. So there are three sections
    1. The first group is of the people , who although in heart of their hearts may believe that it is “BARBARIC” , however it is not possible for them to accept that truth. The religious zeal demands that even if it is “BARBARIC” , if it is recommended by the religion we MUST accept it. This is very simple indeed for these people. I am not saying that such people are stone hearted, or brainless. As a matter of fact over the past few decades there have been many great scholars who have been propagating this theory to the general public on the basis of logical reasons. If you listen to contemporary scholars like Dr. Israr, Dr. Tahirul Qadri , Dr. Zakir Naik, etc.. you will find that the meaning of word “ISLAM” they would prefer is “submission to Almighty God” , over “Peace”. I was doing some comparison that how the “Submission to Allah” was slowly changed from “Peace”. So when you “submit your will to God” that means you loose the right to object any commandment from the God. I am not saying that this is only unique in religion Islam , all religions are more or less based on this principle. The question however is that whether a “seemingly Barbaric” act if prescribed the religion is acceptable or not. In the opinion of such people such acts is not only ACCEPTABLE but actually commendable as it is prescribed by the religion.
    2. The second group of people is the one who sincerely thinks that such an act is “BARBARIC” because it was wrong way to execute such act. So the punishment/act in itself can not be considered as barbaric (because this is how Quran and Islam prescribed the punishment for adulterers) , it is the way “Taliban” have served the punishment (i.e. without following the due course of law) and the way it was executed (in front of public on a chowk, without any regards to sanctity of woman).
    3. The third group is of the “enlightened moderated” group of people who think that even if such punishment was served thousand years back , it CAN NOT be practiced today. This is important to note however that such people are not “Kafirs” or “against Islam” however they think that there is a requirement for re-constructing the religious principles according to the modern day requirements.

    I must say however that first group is in the majority looking at the comments on pakistaniat.com

  223. Mustafa says:
    April 9th, 2009 6:23 am

    BARBARIC, GET rid of these guys from our country.

  224. zia m says:
    April 9th, 2009 12:11 pm

    @pejamistri
    There is a fourth group of people who believe all religions are based on superstition and ignorance.Slavery and misogny is accepted in Judaism,Christianity and Islam.
    I have looked into these major monotheistic religions and don’t see where slavery was banned in any of them.
    Jews claim they were enslaved by Egyptians for hundreds of years but God of Moses never told them Thou Shalt Not Enslave fellow Humans instead He told them to keep Sabath.
    Now what is more important not working on saturdays or freedom of mankind?
    I am sure one day reason and logic will prevail.

  225. accepting responsibility says:
    April 9th, 2009 2:12 pm

    The moderators do not allow any comments which includes a slightest mention of who is responsible for why Pakistan is where it is today. It requires courage and integrity to accept mistakes. Only then a corrective course of action can be charted. Otherwise all this blogging is nothing but a drawing room conversation that no one can beat us at.

    How did the mullah who opposed the creation of Pakistan get so strong that now they assert ownership of Pakistan?

    Well they came for Ahmadis, then for Shias, then for Christians and all that ‘we’ did was watch and root for them. Now they have come for the women and soon they will come for ‘us’. The mullah plague was planted by ZAB, watered by Zia, MQM/ML etc and nurtured by ‘us’.

    Pakistan is enjoying the fruit of the tree that ‘we’ nurtured. How many among us have the courage to take responsibility for the unraveling of this country? We were bigots then and we are bigots now.

  226. Haroon says:
    April 9th, 2009 2:23 pm

    I think the only thing to do is to use fore to root out these enemies of Pakistan. At this point that is only option.

  227. accepting responsibility says:
    April 9th, 2009 2:33 pm

    The madrussahs are spewing out more enemies of Pakistan than you can root out with force.

  228. Waheed says:
    April 9th, 2009 2:41 pm

    We will never be able to root out these demons until teh ordinary Pakistani is still supporting them and in the illusions that it is “external” hands of USA, or India or Israel that is causing this. First, we have to accept that this is our problem and we as public have to root out the Taliban. It does not matter who teh govt is.

  229. Mustafa says:
    April 9th, 2009 3:35 pm

    Can someone please update on what the status of the Supreme Course suo moto is?

  230. April 10th, 2009 1:34 pm

    Since people have sought a response to our moderation policy, we suggest that they read the moderation policy here. We repeat these points again and again in various posts, but seemingly to little effect on some.

    We are particularly mindful of comments that are purposefully inflamatory, personal attacks, on tangential and non-related subjects, repetative, and (increasingly) of spamming by people writing under multiple names to “force” particular ideas onto a conversation. We never moderate comments based on whether we agree or disagree with the content but we are very desirous of creating a discussion that is respectful and intellectually stimulating.

  231. meengla says:
    April 11th, 2009 9:04 am

    Dawn’s Irfan Hussain gets to the heart of the problem: A tolerance of these ‘militants’ by large number of ‘mainstream’ Pakistanis.

    http://tinyurl.com/dxfmv8

    So far, with the exception of the PPP and the MQM, most political parties have avoided taking a clear position. While they may occasionally condemn individual atrocities, they fall short of openly identifying the enemy. One senior journalist in Islamabad told me that when reporters seek an interview with Nawaz Sharif, they must first agree not to ask any direct questions about the Taliban. If this is true, it shows that the PML-N leader does not want to either condemn or support the jihadis openly. Being a canny politician, he does not wish to alienate his core support among reactionary elements. Nor does he want to upset Washington. But wars are not won through such tactical hedging.

  232. imran says:
    April 11th, 2009 10:29 am

    meengla
    this just shows what people have repeatedly said here that we lack sincere strong leadership. infact there is reciprcal relationship between corrupt leaders and destructive leaders.

    and if we look at ATP poll done few days back….around 700 people participated and the top most problem of pakistan was polled as extremism followed by corrupt politcians…so here we go….this nation knows who are its enemies….then how will we redeem ourselves….i think it would be foolish to think that current leadership can save us…we need to look at some other institutions…may be educating youth, judiciary…i dont know….

  233. imran says:
    April 11th, 2009 10:30 am

    correction:
    ” infact there is reciprcal relationship between corrupt leaders and destructive EXTREMIST ELMENTS”

  234. Tirimzi says:
    April 12th, 2009 11:35 am

    WAKE UP PEOLE

    Have we already forgotten this ?

    Put pressure on CJ. To follow up on this …. Shout for the flogging of Muslim Khan and these other mullahs

    Otherwise YOU will be next

    Pls do not let this slip from our memory as these Ralinsn supporters want you

    Please….

  235. Abu Ali says:
    April 12th, 2009 1:51 pm
  236. imran says:
    April 12th, 2009 2:26 pm

    @abuali
    yr article is same old story….i dont understand how cam u equate dr afiya with flogging
    wht ppl like u who are promoting conspiracy theor need to understand is the diffe between the two…dr afiya was a case which involves usa and is political issue…

    this flogging is done in the name of religion by pakistanis on our on earth….

    so this is the reason there is so much hue and cry abt it…..well for so many different and obvious reasons we cant stop usa ….but this does not mean we start letting people take law in their own hands in our own country in the name of religion…

    but i am sure u still dont see the difference….cause u dont beleive in first cleaning up the dirt in ones own house….

    i am not impressed by the article u posted…and if u followed the thread of discussion here on this page…which is around 30 pages long u will understand why lot of people like me dont want to buy yr argument….usa is not our enemy…corrupt ppl in our society are

  237. Sami says:
    April 13th, 2009 3:47 am

    this is a a fake video…sound was dubbed…language that they are using is not used in swat…its all political drama..

    how can a girl walk so easily after so many spanks

  238. Aslam says:
    April 13th, 2009 10:36 am

    I fear that this story is already forgotten. How cruel we all are. The news channels have forgotten it and the Taliban supporters have used propaganda to totally twist the facts through lies. How sad.

  239. Aamir Ali says:
    April 13th, 2009 1:34 pm

    @Sami
    The language and clothing was Swati in this video and the Taliban spokesman took responsibility.

    The girl could walk after the spanking because it was a spanking, not a bone-breaking.

  240. imran says:
    April 13th, 2009 3:37 pm

    @ sami
    are you an expert on victim’s behavior, or a psychologist or smthing….u are pathetic thats all i can say
    i hope u get beaten in front of crowd and i wld like to see if after that humiliation, how quickly u wold want to leave the crowd and run away and hide somewhere to lick yr wound

    pathetic are people like u

  241. USMAN says:
    April 15th, 2009 1:14 am

    So, these are the guys who will now rule Swat and this is the ADL they will be handing out.

    Fasten your seat belts!

  242. Arsalan says:
    April 15th, 2009 2:09 pm

    This video should be seen by every Pakistani at least once a day to remind ourselves the cruelty and the inhumanity of the enemy we are fighting.

  243. IRFAN says:
    April 24th, 2009 12:49 pm

    This is what the Taliban are and what they do. Anyone who supports them or defends them should imagine themselves or their loved one in the position of this woman first.

  244. mazHur says:
    May 7th, 2009 10:09 am

    @Adil Najam
    please take some time out to compare the” disturbing video” posted by you with this shameless video from the so-called civilized world!

    Please view at your own discretion.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=682_1241204150

  245. bonobashi says:
    May 7th, 2009 11:31 pm

    @mazHur

    Dear Sir, I am sorry but your point was not clear.

    Do two wrongs make a right?

  246. maira says:
    August 9th, 2009 12:11 pm

    taliban r killers
    they have no heart
    they r not muslims
    and this is because we did not no the meaning independent country
    and we have no unity

  247. March 29th, 2010 2:33 pm

    The infamous Swat flogging video which supported the war in Waziristan was finally found fake. A local NGO gave bribe of Rs.500,000 to the video shooter.

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=231461

    This is utter shame and height of fascis m of Pakistani left.

    Now someone cage that dirty culprit Samar MinAllah who started all propaganda to start a war in South Waziristan.

    I expect all desi leftists would either hide in bin or would come up with some idiotic answer to defend the fascis m of Pakistani left.

    I have just doubt that Adil and Co would have any moral courage to publish this news.

  248. Aamir Ali says:
    March 29th, 2010 10:46 pm

    @Adnan Siddiqi

    The article does not contain any names of NGO’s or other specific information. It only has claims by unnamed sources, hence it does not pass journalistic muster.

    Don’t forget that the Taliban accepted responsibility for flogging the girl, and committed many other crimes in Swat, Waziristan and Buner.

    Taliban-lovers like you remain in denial and your Taliban are still on the run from brave Pakistani Army and tribal Lashkars.

  249. Adnan says:
    March 30th, 2010 1:54 am

    @Aamir Ali: The problem with radical leftists that they always come up with some lame excuse to comfort their own extremism. I remember same Jang group published about flogging video then every tom dick and harry was chanting out like radicals here and there and now same news source quoted Pakistani army officials about reality than these leftists started denying it.

    “Don’t forget that the Taliban accepted responsibility for flogging the gir”

    Like you me also listened that on a media. Are you claiming yo met that talibanic leader yourself?

    My friend its you and other leftists who are in state of phobia and yet unable to admit reality around them.

    The Video was first advertised by SamarMinAllah, the lady leftist radical who runs an NGO. Everyone in Pakistan knows how these West funded NGOs propagate their propaganda in the name of Charity. The role of these fundo NGOs is not hidden. Yes it would be for those who prefer to burry their heads in sand.

    Now your masters, US and England are in negotiation with Talibans in Afghans? What would you do now? you liberals once again used as a toy and left all alone? Your infinite babbling is not being heard by your masters either.

    If you have guts and moral courage then dare to condemn US ,India and UK who are eager to deal with “peaceful Talibans”

    I feel pitty for you, friend.

  250. Aamir Ali says:
    March 30th, 2010 3:28 am

    @Adnan

    The problem with mullahs like you is that you get emotional quickly and begin rants that are devoid of truth and logic.

    The newspaper article you mentioned has NO NAMES and NO IDENTITIES. You also have the inconvenient fact that the Taliban leader Muslim Khan, accepted responsibility for flogging the poor girl, among their many many other crimes.

    So your beloved Taliban are still criminals who deserve to be eliminated, and that is what Armed Forces and Lashkar are doing. You can continue stroking your beard and fuming, it doesn’t change any facts.

  251. Adnan says:
    March 31st, 2010 10:30 pm

    This site claims to promote “Pakistaniat” while in reality it’s a propaganda machine of pro lefts radica ls.

    The forum discussed about fake flogging video. If this site is really about discussing Pakistanr rather than being a West’s mouthpiece then it should update the article about recent discovery about the video and should be discussing the role of fundo NGOs who can do anything for sake of money.

    Several news resources featured the news of fake flogging video and its usage to sabotage peace process. Though Adil always make failed attempts to promote himself a neutral and patriotic Pakistani but every time he ended up as a Western puppet who is fed to promote what US asks about. Adil can getrid of this by presenting both side of the story to the outer world. Being a lefts’ mouthpiece is not going to serve this site at all

  252. Abdullah says:
    June 3rd, 2010 4:44 pm

    Fake

  253. December 17th, 2010 11:55 am

    hello… pak and power army whole of the world….

    i am zeeshan iqbal ….. captian of future … INSHALLAH

    …CONGRADULATION FOR SWAT WAR…WIN IN OUR MY SWEET PAK ARMY …. INSHALLAH NEXT ANY WAR COME WE WILL WIN ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    …………….GOD BLESS MY ALL ARMY…………………..

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