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Dr. Abdus Salam: Beyond Physics

Posted on November 22, 2010
Filed Under >Adil Najam, People, Religion, Science and Technology
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Adil Najam

Today marks Dr. Abdus Salam’s death anniversary. (See new biography of Dr. Salam here).

It should be a moment of deep reflection for all of us. He would have been as great a man as he was even if he did not won the Nobel Award in physics. But we would have conveniently forgotten him. That he did win the Nobel Award is a source of cosmetic and hollow pride for many Pakistanis. Cosmetic and hollow because it is also a source of visible unease. Even when we acknowledge that he was a great scientist (after all, the Nobel Committee thought so), we are uncomfortable acknowledging that he was a great man whose significance goes beyond his science.



As a brutally honest editorial in today’s Daily Times points out, “we are scared of honoring Dr. Salam.” We must not be.

The Daily Times editorial says all that needs to be said; it is worth reading, worth thinking about, and worth quoting in full:

The tragedy of our treatment of Dr Abdus Salam

Dr Abdus Salam (1926-1996) died ten years ago. He was the first Pakistani to get a Nobel Prize in 1979. But he might be the last if we continue to allow our state to evolve in a way that frightens the rest of the world. Our collective psyche runs more to accepted ‘wisdom’ than to scientific inquiry; and even if we were to display an uncharacteristic outcropping of individual genius the world may be so frightened of it that it might not give us our deserts.

We are scared of honouring Dr Salam because of our constitution which we have amended to declare his community as ‘non-Muslim’. When Dr Salam died in 1996 he had to be buried in Pakistan because he refused to give up his Pakistani nationality and acquire another that respected him more. But the Pakistani state was afraid of touching his dead body. He was therefore buried in Rabwa, the home town of his Ahmedi community whose name is also unacceptable to us and has been changed to Chenab Nagar by a state proclamation. But that was not the end of the story. After he was buried, the pious, law-abiding and constitution-loving people of Jhang, which is nearby, went over to Chenab Nagar to see if all had been done according to the constitutional provisions regarding the Ahmedi community to which he belonged.


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And what did the constitution say? It said that the Ahmedis are not Muslims, that they may not call themselves Muslims, nor say the kalima or use any of the symbols of Islam. The original amendments to the constitution were passed by Z A Bhutto, a ‘liberal socialist-democrat’, and subsequent tightening of the law was done by the great patriot General Zia-ul Haq. Thus both the civilians and the khakis had connived in the great betrayal of Dr Salam.

After the great scientist was buried in Chenab Nagar, his tombstone said “Abdus Salam the First Muslim Nobel Laureate”. Needless to say, the police arrived with a magistrate and rubbed off the ‘Muslim’ part of the katba. Now the tombstone says: Abdus Salam the First Nobel Laureate. The magistrate remained unfazed by what he had done but Dr Salam’s grave is actually the tombstone of a Muslim culture that Pakistan had inherited from the founder of the nation, Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah. But ironies fly thick in Pakistan. In Jhang, for example, where Dr Salam grew up as a precocious child, the schools that he endowed with scholarships and grants now teach communal hatred rather than the love that he had in mind when he gave them his money.

Meanwhile, the Ahmedi community is under daily pressure and anyone with a twisted mind is free to persecute them.

Abdus Salam was born in Jhang in 1926. At the age of 14, he got the highest marks ever recorded for the Matriculation Examination in Punjab. The whole town turned out to welcome him. He won a scholarship to Government College, Lahore, and took his MA in 1946. In the same year he was awarded a scholarship to St. John’s College, Cambridge, where he took a BA (honours) with a double First in mathematics and physics in 1949. In 1950 he received the Smith’s Prize from Cambridge University for the most outstanding pre-doctoral contribution to physics. He also obtained a PhD in theoretical physics at Cambridge; his thesis, published in 1951, contained fundamental work in quantum electrodynamics which had already gained him an international reputation.

In 1954 Dr Salam left his native country for a lectureship at Cambridge University. Before the Pakistani politicians apostatised him, he was a member of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, a member of the Scientific Commission of Pakistan and Chief Scientific Adviser to the President from 1961 to 1974. Pakistan’s space research agency Suparco was created by him and it is only symbolic that a group of Shia workers of Suparco were put to death in Karachi in 2004 by sectarian terrorists. Like Dr Salam, a lot of gifted Shia doctors have had to leave Pakistan because of the state’s twisted policies.

Dr Abdus Salam got his Nobel Prize for Physics in 1979. It was a most embarrassing moment for General Zia who had “supplemented” the Second Amendment to the constitution with further comic disabilities against the Ahmedis. He had to welcome the great scientist and had to be seen with him on TV. Since the clerical part of his government was already bristling, he took care to clip those sections of Dr Salam’s speech where he had said the kalima or otherwise used an Islamic expression. It was Dr Salam’s good luck that one of the believers did not go to court under Zia’s own laws to get the country’s only Nobel laureate sent to prison for six months of rigorous imprisonment. Dr Salam then went to India where he was received with great fanfare. He had gone there to simply meet his primary school mathematics teacher who was still alive. When the two met, Dr Salam took off his Nobel medal and put it around the neck of his teacher.

Let us admit in a whisper that Pakistan did issue a stamp commemorating Dr Salam years ago lest the government come under pressure to remove it from circulation. It is also true that his alma mater, Government College Lahore, now a university, has named certain ancillary departments and academic sessions after him following a long period of obscurantist domination. But Pakistan needs to feel guilty about what it has done to the greatest scientist it ever produced in comparison to the lionisation of Dr AQ Khan who has brought ignominy and the label of “rogue state” to Pakistan by selling the country’s nuclear technology for personal gain. Can we redeem ourselves by doing something in Dr Salam’s memory on this 10th anniversary of his passing that would please his soul and cleanse ours?

Repost: This post was originally published at ATP on November 22, 2006, on Dr. Salam’s 10th death anniversary.

479 Comments on “Dr. Abdus Salam: Beyond Physics”

  1. Ali Aslam says:
    November 22nd, 2006 8:36 pm

    I never knew all that happened to Dr. Salam. It really is a shame, that we, Pakistan, didn’t give him enough credit when it was needed. We should applaud people like him. Regardless of his religious beliefs he was a Pakistani, enough said. I can’t imagine that people would go so far as to erase the “Muslim” written on his grave, and to cut out the parts of his speech in which he used the kalima. Who are we to judge who is muslim or not. I remember a story that I was told when I was young. There were two men: one was a drunkard, never prayed, never fasted, and didn’t even know the kalima. Then there was another man who said his prayers five times a day, fasted, and always said the kalima. One day Allah came to them both and asked them, “If this ship (imagine something like the Titanic) were put on this twig (imagine something like a toothpick) will it break.” The man who prayed five times a day, fasted and said the kalima responded, “It is impossible, the ship is just to heavy, the branch will obviously break” The drunkard, who never prayed, never fasted, and never said the kalima responded, “If Allah wills, this branch will not break.” Immediatly Allah opened the gates to paradise and the drunkard, who never prayed, never fasted, and never said the kalima entered paradise. The other did not go to paradise, instead he served his punishment in the hell-fire. Basically, the moral of the story is believing in Allah is the most important thing of all.

  2. TURAB says:
    November 22nd, 2006 9:03 pm

    Just wanted to Salute the great scientist and hopefully I wanted to pray that there is more tolerance and justice for all minorities in Pakistan.

    Thats the prime reason why religion should be between a person and God, and not enforced nor judged by the people nor the Mullahs.

  3. Eidee Man says:
    November 22nd, 2006 9:40 pm

    Adil, this is a great article. Our government and political parties should be ashamed..but, as they say in Sindhi, only those who have respect to begin with can be humiliated.

    As if this wasn’t enough, Salam was also betrayed by the Muslim world at large. I don’t remember the details but wasn’t the center at Trieste supposed to be built within a Muslim country with IOC money?

  4. Mariam says:
    November 22nd, 2006 9:47 pm

    He founded The Abdus Salam International Center for Theoretical Studies to foster advancement of Physics among developing countries citizens. I know quite few Pakistanis who benefited from it.

    I only hope that some day we could able to revoke that amendment as it shouldn’t be states business to mingle with people’s beliefs.

  5. Mariam says:
    November 22nd, 2006 9:57 pm

    Eidee Man,

    I too heard something like that. If I were him I would have bar all Muslims from the Institute just to teach a lesson to few ignorant souls. But then he was a great man and all great men were persecuted by shameless authorities.

    I’m sending this e-card to all my family and friends.

  6. Mariam says:
    November 22nd, 2006 10:05 pm

    Eidee Man,

    I too heard something like that. If I were him I would have bar all Muslims from the Institute just to teach a lesson to few ignorant souls. But then he was a great man and all great men were persecuted by shameless authorities.

    P.S. Sorry for spamming the comment section but edit option isn’t working for me.

  7. MQ says:
    November 22nd, 2006 11:08 pm

    Adil,I am glad you posted this article. I loved that picture Salam’s old-world school report book.

    Eidee Man, I am not sure if the story about the OIC is true because sometime in the 80s the UNESCO chief’s position fell vacant. Salam wanted that position for he felt he could work effectively for the promotion of education and science at the international level. Several Muslim and Arab governments were willing to support him for that position along with many Western countries but he had to be first nominated by his own government. However, Pakistan, then in the stranglehold of that Islamic fanatic, “merde Haq”, nominated his former foreign minister, Sahibzada Yakoob Khan, in place of Salam. Sahibzada lost the election easily even losing the votes of many Muslim countries.

    By not giving due recognition to Salam Pakistan lost. Salam did not.

    Regarding the mullahs who erased the word Muslim from his tombstone, I will repeat my earlier suggestion. Put all of them on Karachi Dream Cruise with a big hole in the bottom of the ship and set its course towards the high seas.

  8. Yahya says:
    November 22nd, 2006 11:33 pm

    I suppose if he had accepted another nationality, everyone would have been better off. No one had to feel embarrassed here and he could have been buried somewhere else with whatever for his tombstone.

  9. younis says:
    November 22nd, 2006 11:48 pm

    long live zia ul haq , down with all infidels, no matter who theyare what their contribution to atomic bomb(god forbid is the bomb “qadiani” now that salam started the atomic program in pakistan), Spurco and research in pakistani universities,
    qadeer khan(al though earned some bucks,thats beside the point) did some good work for research & development in universities, give some credit to war on terror and zia’s war on pakistan for state of science in pakistan

  10. November 22nd, 2006 11:54 pm

    [quote post="431"]Regarding the mullahs who erased the word Muslim from his tombstone[/quote]

    No doubt I respect him as a good scientist but he was not a muslim and it was really shame things happened with him in his home country but fact of the matter is that Qadyanis are not muslims . Don’t bring your polluted school of thought here and misguide to others. Qadyanis were declared non-muslims for certain reasons. If qadyanis were so eager to label themselves as *muslims* then they didn’t need to invent a seprate religion then whine to justify as a muslim religion. Labelling as “Ahmadis” doesn’t change facts. Better make a read of books written by mirza ghulam then troll here.

    Back to topic, I just wonder that whether abdul salam was/is the only pakistani scientist who did something which was accepted for nobel prize? Doesn’t pakistani produce other scientists? wht about late chemistry scientist Saleemuz Zaman? what about others?

  11. Roshan Malik says:
    November 23rd, 2006 12:12 am

    In one of the sections of newly built Lok Virsa museum (Islamabad), there is a cluster of pictures of famous Pakistanis who contributed for the country and humanity. Unfortunately Dr. Salam’s picture is not there.

    I think the real concept of Pakistaniat is not what our leadership from both wings had been propagating for.
    History shows that our leadership had tried to undermine Dr. Salam but he was Gulliver among the Lilliputians.

    Pakistaniat is love for fellow beings regardless of their creed and nationality.

  12. November 23rd, 2006 12:31 am

    [quote post="431"]Pakistaniat is love for fellow beings regardless of their creed and nationality.[/quote]

    Roshan sahib, if accepting qadyanis make me a right wing conservative religious zealot then I am proud to be a right’s ally. People sincerely need to make difference between lefts,rights and those who curse to both cabals. I belong to third one that’s why I dislike both MMAish Islamic propaganda and Liberals/secular version of Islam.

    [quote post="431"]Pakistaniat is love for fellow beings regardless of their creed and nationality.[/quote]

    I agree with you 100% and majority of contributors of this forum who are victims of liberalism should follow it and give respect to other school of thoughts rather injecting their bacterias all the time here and there

  13. Samdani says:
    November 23rd, 2006 12:47 am

    Whether he was or was not a Muslim is between him and his God. It is not something that I have the right or the ability to pass a verdict on. To do so, I would have to be arrogant enough to assume that I can do something that only God can-know what is in the heart of men.

    Wouldn’t it be much better if all of us (who claim to be Muslims) put as much effort in being better Muslims ourselves as we do in passing judgements on the Muslimness of others.

  14. Samdani says:
    November 23rd, 2006 12:48 am

    By the way, the pictures are wonderful. The portrait at the top is superb. I assume teh three b/w pictures are him. I know the one on extreme right is from the Nobel ceremony, any information on the other two?

  15. November 23rd, 2006 12:57 am

    Samdani sahib, let me a bit clear that I am talking about ideology given by Qadyanism and condemning it not some individual. Offcourse its only salam and his God knows what he used to believe inside but if you think that condeming/exposing an ideology is also not allowed then I must disagree with you. Crticizing a belief is different than criticizing a believer.

  16. TURAB says:
    November 23rd, 2006 1:05 am

    I will not taint this precious post with ill minded religious discussion.

    Secondly, answering Adnan’s question, No, there are no other Pakistani scientists of worhty discoveries nor work from them to earn a nobel peace prize. Lets face it even Dr. Qadir stole blue prints from the dutch!

    I would have more respect for so called non Muslim who was patriotic and genuine in the work of electroweak theory.

    One can judge his character fro the fact that at the reception of Nobel Peace prize he wore his Pagri and Sherwani. Moreover, quoted an ayat from Quran.

  17. Samdani says:
    November 23rd, 2006 1:15 am

    On science and scientists, as has been said, Salam was a great scientist and would have been great even if he had not won the Nobel Prize. Dr. Salimuzzaman Siddique was certainly also a great scientist, even though he did not win the Nobel, but could very well have. Attaur Rahman is NOT and Qadeer Khan is NOT. At best their skills are ‘adminsitrative’ and there are no great theories, concepts or breakthroughs in knowledge that they have made.

  18. November 23rd, 2006 1:19 am

    [quote post="431"]ill minded religious discussion.[/quote]

    That’s demonstration of hypocrisy by you.

    [quote post="431"]Dr. Qadir stole blue prints from the dutch[/quote]

    You’re ignorant enough. WHo talked about Qadir Khan? and speaking of Qadir khan and strealing of tech, who doesn’t stole it? India stole it, Korea stole it, what’s wrong if Pakistan stole it? The irony is that current Pakistani ARmy is being fed by same stolen technology, deal with it!

    [quote post="431"]I would have more respect for so called non Muslim who was patriotic and genuine in the work of electroweak theory.[/quote]

    Who is disrespecting him?

  19. November 23rd, 2006 1:51 am

    Salam’s history in academia is a beacon of light to most, if not all, Pakistani scientists around the world. I am yet to find a serious scientist who would not (a) have utmost respect for his academic work and his love for Pakistan, and (b) would disagree that he was squarely denied respect by his own people.

    I never met Salam, the only Nobel Laureate of Pakistan. But the stories of disrespect I have heard, including some in the post above, make me sad and alienated from whoever those Pakistanis were who judged him and his religion. I traveled to Mexico with the only Nobel laureate they have and saw the love they shower on him. He was not just respected for being a good scientist, but for providing hope and becoming an ideal for young kids in school to aspire to. What about our kids? Do we tell them enough about Salam (or even Al-Khwarizmi) so they get the inspiration to do scientific research? Salam is no less than Einstein and it is sad that most kids in Pakistani schools would recognize Einstein but not their very own Salam.

  20. Shahbaz says:
    November 23rd, 2006 3:01 am

    I think we need to adopt a more balanced approach here. I have little doubt that the beliefs of Qadianies are false enough and preposterous enough to declare them non-Muslims. But on the other hand, I do believe that General Zia-ul-Haq in particular and our society in general went too far in its opposition to the Qadianies. Remember that 1973 constitution simply declares them non-Muslims; it does not restrict their religious practices. It was done under a 1984 Presidential ordinance issued by Zia. (These restrictions have deemed any religious practices in public by Qadianies illegal, as mentioned in this discussion earlier). My personal opinion is that declaring Qadianies non-Muslim, in the constitution is enough; the restrictions on their religious practices are against the Quranic teachings that preach “no compulsion in religion in Islamâ€

  21. Ahsan says:
    November 23rd, 2006 3:15 am

    I am glad that you have taken the initiative of reviving the memory of Dr. Abdus Salam. Dr. Salam is the greatest Scientific mind that the Indus Valley (peesent Pakistan) has ever produced. Such a brilliant son of the soil was indeed badly treated by his country. No matter, he was a Muslim or not, he was very religious person. He never hid his religion and never hesitated to talk of Islam in International Scientific Conferences. I remember, in the Summer of 1987, in Istambul (Turkey), during an Internation Physics Conference he started his Inaugral Speech with an Ayet from the Holy Book.

    Basically, it does not matter if he was either Muslim or not. He had his Faith, but he himself was beyond any Faith because he was a good “Human Being” or a “Perfect Man” which we also translate as “mard-e-kaamil”.

    I insist that for Dr. Salam the word “man” be written “mard” in Urdu and not merde as in “merde Haq” for Zia-ul-Haq. In Frnch merde means shit!

    Ahsan

  22. November 23rd, 2006 4:06 am

    Infact a very nice post, thanks Adil. But discussion of all muslim and non muslim stuff has made me to wonder that though I am sunni muslim, lets say far from shia, qadiyani, ismaili and many more….does it make me good muslim or good citizen??? I think we should leave the stuff called muslim and kafir and try to respect the humanity. We have enough sectarien fights and many innocent people die every year in these conflicts. Atleast the educated class of our country should think differently, then we can hope that one day everybody will live in peace.

  23. November 23rd, 2006 4:29 am

    @Shahbaz: Mashallah all of you are educated and have access to libraries and Internet, you guys could always read the sources rather making political statments right here. One can always read “Roohany Khazaen” and other books. It’s not a difficult task. Anyone who claimed to a prophet and start a new belief can’t be declared as Muslim. Long time back some qadyani was arguing with me and I had made a small note about false prophecies given by mirza ghulam to refute him as a messiah.

    I have no issue one follows islam or something else, as long as he/she is not being harmful for a society, he/she should be respected but claiming crap that Mullah declared a community ‘non-muslim’ is actually a sign of mental infertility. Qadyanis were declared non-muslims not only by Pakistan but other countries as well, that’s also true that many are returnig back to Islam and quitting that fragile belief. If I follow a religion then I should have enough courage to promote my religion in its true color rather disguise it as “Islam” or chiristianity etc.

    @sadia: I don’t consider shia as kafir, in my knowledge, they didn’t declare some new prophet in the name of Islam.

    @shahbaz: noone is ignoring their contribution but it’s not fair that if they’re contributing for a state then someone is free to do propaganda about certain community.

    And for those who advocate to give rights to non-muslims in pakistan should read this article. One can always confirm about it. If this is true then it’s really shame for me as a member of a muslim state.

  24. Farzana says:
    November 23rd, 2006 3:07 pm

    I am moved by reading this post and especially his speech to the Nobel group. What graceful words, what great pride in his Pakistani roots, and most of all not even a hint of sarcasm or bitterness. It is amazining how even third rate people in Pakistan proudly highlight only the American colleges they went to but here is someone at the top of the knowledge world taking pride in his Pakistani roots. And look how we treated him.

  25. saima nasir says:
    November 23rd, 2006 6:08 am

    This is a link to the talk given by Pervez Hoodbhoy, professor of physics in Islamabad, at the Salam Memorial Meeting in Trieste, Italy. He made this speech in 1997 and it seems, it is still as relevant today as it was then.

    Dr. Hoodbhoy wrote his impressions of the great man in an article called “ENCOUNTERS WITH SALAM”, which can be read on this link;

    Abdus Salam: Past and Present
    by Pervez Hoodbhoy (published in THE NEWS, 29 January, 1996)

    can be read on this link;

    It is a pity, that we/our nation cannot rise above our religious and political differences to honour a hero like, Dr. Salam.
    In Dr. Hoodbhoy’s words,”Nothing hurt him more than the stony barrenness of the intellect in Islamic countries today. He was deeply mortified, he recalled, when a Nobel Prize winner in physics said to him: “Salam, do you really think we have an obligation to succour, aid, and keep alive those nations who have never created or added an iota to man’s stock of knowledge?”

    Is there anything left to say, after reading the above thought?…I think not…atleast for me.

  26. Ismat says:
    November 23rd, 2006 8:16 pm

    I think it is great that you have put this up and we are discussing this great man. I am so glad that there is actaully an outpouring of respect for this man from everyone. And this is important that we all view him as the man he was and for his achievements. But let us also think of what we can do. If the government cannot take teh initiative to give him teh respect he deserves can we can Paksitanis do somthing. Why not push our univeristies and colleges to do something in his honour?

  27. Shafeeq says:
    November 24th, 2006 1:06 am

    Let us please not make the same grave mistake that Bhutto and Zia made, by assuming that we are capable of determining who is or is not a Muslim. That is a decision best made by God. Not by any parliament, not by any mullah and certainly not by any of us. Whether the laws of the country and anyone thinks Dr. Salam was a Muslim or not is irrelevant. What I know is that by his words and by his actions he was much more a Muslim than most who claim to speak for the entire religion. Beyond that its between God and him alone.

  28. Shahid Husain says:
    November 23rd, 2006 7:59 am

    The mystic scientist

    Zainab Mahmood

    The story of the peasant from Jhang who became one of the finest scientists the world has known

    In 1925, a peasant from Jhang had a prophetic dream: in response to his prayers, an infant was put in his lap; he inquired after his name and was told it was Abdus Salam. On Friday, January 29, 1926, a son was born to him and he duly named him Abdus Salam. A few years later, in another dream he saw Salam rapidly climbing a tall tree. When he cautioned him, Salam replied, “Father don’t worry I know what I’m doing,” and continued to climb until he was lost from sight. These visions were perhaps an indication of the extraordinary life that the child was destined to lead.

    Salam’s powers of comprehension astonished his parents. As a toddler when his mother narrated bedtime stories, he retained every word and whenever she repeated a story he interrupted by saying “I already know it”. At six he was admitted straight into class four. At just 12 he sat for his matriculation exam and stood first in Punjab University, breaking all previous records.

    Salam pursued a bachelor’s degree at Government College, Lahore, where he became editor of Ravi the college magazine, and president of the student’s union and debating society. In his fourth year during a lecture on Srinivas Ramanujan’s mathematical equations, Salam worked out simpler and shorter solutions, which had defied many professors. He went on to set new records in BA and MA in Punjab University, some of which still stand. Salam applied for an undergraduate programme in the mathematics Tripos at Cambridge. His father was unable to finance his studies abroad. Fortunately Sir Chotoo Ram (the revenue minister of the Punjab), himself the son of a peasant, arranged that funds collected for the war effort be used to provide scholarships for bright sons of peasants.

    At Cambridge, Salam realised that his view of the world was fairly limited; referring to Rumi’s poem, he called himself “the frog from the well”. There he read voraciously about Islamic mysticism and philosophy, political and religious history, social sciences and the achievements of Muslim scholars, Sufis and scientists. This knowledge not only helped him achieve success in his chosen field, but also made him a well-rounded human being with a strong sense of history and spirituality. After completing his mathematics tripos degree early (with a double first, earning him the prestigious title of “wrangler”), he completed a three year physics degree in one year. Due to the exceptional standard of his theoretical papers, the examiners did not even ask for his practical results, and simply awarded him a first class degree. One of his professors, Sir Fred Hail, said about him: “I found it less of a strain to tackle hard problems with Salam than to be asked easier things by other chaps. With them you had to roll two stones up the hill, one was the problem, the second making them understand, with Salam there was one stone, and he would be doing a fair amount of the pushing.”

    Salam completed his PhD in theoretical physics at Cambridge in 1952. Despite being offered a fellowship he returned to Pakistan to teach at Government College. Professor Kemmer, his research supervisor from Cambridge, eventually persuaded him to return to lecture at Cambridge: “I know very well that his strong sense of duty to his country is making it hard for him to decide to accept the post offered. If he does I feel in a few years he will become one of those from whom advanced students from all over the world would learn and he would be capable of establishing his own school of theoretical physics.” This proved prophetic.

    In 1957 Salam became Imperial College London’s youngest professor ever. Here Salam, who had started out as a simple peasant, not even seeing an electric light bulb until he was sixteen, interacted with some of the greatest minds of his generation such as Bertrand Russell, Einstein, Openheimer, and Wolfgang Pauli. During one discussion Russell stated how he was vehemently opposed to God’s existence; Salam responded by saying: “without belief in God man is prone to many basic defects and history shows that those who do believe in God are able to sacrifice more and do better for the mankind in comparison to non-believers.” In his first meeting with Einstein, they discussed religion, and Dr Salam explained the Islamic concept of tauheed . They ultimately developed a close friendship.

    Dr Salam’s spirituality and interest in Sufism distinguished him from most other great scientists. He began his first ever lecture at Imperial College by reciting a Quranic verse. His student Professor Duff recalls that his lectures were mesmerising: “there was always an element of eastern mysticism in his ideas that left you wondering how to fathom his genius.” Dr Salam would explain his scientific endeavours were inspired by the concepts of Ptolemy, Bruno and Galileo who dared to question and discover the mechanisms of the universe. He pointed out that a scientist has many facets, such as that of a Sufi, an artist and explorer, and he relies on such traditions to advance his scientific knowledge.

    As advisor to General Ayub Khan, Dr Salam was instrumental in the formation of Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC). Dr Ishfaq (President, PAEC 1998) recalls, “Dr Salam was responsible for sending about 500 physicists, mathematicians and scientists from Pakistan, for PhDs to the best institutions in UK and USA”. He worked tirelessly towards establishing a scientific platform in Pakistan. He spoke on problems afflicting Pakistan and suggested practical guidelines on how to tackle poverty and illiteracy in the third world at the All Pakistan Science Conference in Dhaka (1961). He urged citizens and the government to pay more attention to the scientific sector. He said poverty could be eradicated in one generation in Pakistan if the entire country made a firm commitment and he quoted from the Quran for inspiration: “God does not change the condition of a nation until it does not make an effort to change itself.”

    He was a force behind the establishment of PINSTECH a centre for nuclear research, near Islamabad and SUPARCO in Karachi. He worked hard to find a solution for water-logging and salinity, which was a big problem for Pakistan’s agriculture. He wrote several papers on this subject, which were presented in the US House of Representatives. On his request, the American president John F Kennedy sent a team of experts to Pakistani who were able to save millions of acres of land.

    Dr Salam worked day and night towards the establishment of an institute for physics. Yet, as is now well-known, Pakistan was uninterested: the then finance minister, Mohammed Shoaib, advised Ayub Khan that “Dr Salam wants to build a 5-star hotel for scientists”. Defeated, Abdus Salam approached several European countries instead. Finally the centre, the International Centre for Theoretical Physics (ICTP) was established in Italy in 1964. He served as director there for 30 years, and so a bridge of science was created between the developed and third world countries. As the science writer Robert Walgate said about Dr Salam, “he is one man without time, strung across two worlds and two problems; it is a loss to the world that he cannot have two lives.”

    In 1979, Dr Salam won the Nobel Prize in Physics for his research on the grand unification theory. This theory was inspired by his spiritual belief that all forces emanate from a single source. The hours he spent conducting scientific research at his home, would be against the backdrop of recorded naats and talawat recitation of the Quran. At the award-ceremony he arrived wearing his national dress – sherwani, khussa and pagri – and began his acceptance speech with a recitation from the Quran: “No incongruity will you see in the creation of God. Then look again, do you see any flaw? Look again and again and your sight will return confused and fatigued having seen no incongruity.”

    After winning the Nobel Prize, Salam visited his homeland. On one occasion he was en route with Dr Usmani and requested they drive to Government College. Dr Usmani told him that as it was during the vacation no one would be around. Dr Salam replied, “The person I want to meet will certainly be there.” As the car approached a group of workers in the college, Dr Salam got out, shook hands and embraced one of them. Surprised, Dr Usmani asked him about the identity of this man, to which Dr Salam replied, “This gentleman is Saida, a mess servant at New Hostel, who used to lock my hostel room from outside during the exams, and gave me food and supplies through the window.”

    Dr Salam never forgot all those people who had, in some way, aided him throughout his life. When he was lecturer at Cambridge, he regularly sent money to his retired and impoverished teachers in Jhang. He held all his teachers in the highest of esteem and when he made an official visit to India, he insisted that all his Hindu and Sikh teachers who had migrated to India should be invited to all functions arranged in his honour. Dr Salam won 274 awards, degrees and prizes during his life, most of which carried substantial cash rewards. He used all his prize money to create a scholarship fund for deserving students as well as to aid impoverished people. While visiting India he was treated as a hero. Indira Gandhi was so in awe of him that she refused to sit at the same level as Dr Salam, instead sitting beside him on the floor. When students in India asked what changes the Nobel had brought his life, he replied: “the biggest change is that now I can meet all those people that I wanted to and with their help and God’s kindness I am able to help many aspiring scientists from the third world. The Nobel prize does not mean anything more to me.”

    Once a journalist asked him how he felt that because of his extraordinary achievements, his small village Jhang, previously famous for the Heer folktale, was now known as the home of one of the greatest scientific minds of this century. Salam answered with extreme humility and wit, saying, “there are over 325 Nobel laureates in the world, but there is only one Heer.”

    In 1988 he was invited to speak at the Faiz Memorial Lecture in Lahore. The contents of his speech elucidate the extent of his humility and diffidence. He confessed that he felt he was far a far lesser man than the gifted poet Faiz, who had lived in a world of love and beauty which enriched all around him, while he (Salam) was an inhabitant of the dry and colourless world of atoms. He remarked that one-eighth of the Quran summons all believers to think, to question and to harness the forces of nature for the benefit of mankind. He felt Faiz was an extraordinary man who took on this challenge, as should all believers. He showed how spiritual poetry and science were routes to the same destination and how the quest to unfold God’s mysteries, fuelled both the scientist and the poet. Sadly, he said, another similarity which drew him and Faiz together was that they were considered persona non grata by their own country.

    In the latter part of his life, which he mostly spent in England, when he was asked why he was hesitant to come to Pakistan, he gave an honest response by saying that it was Pakistan that was hesitant to receive him. Dr Salam was offered citizenship from several countries, including Jordan and Kuwait, which even offered to nominate him as director-general of UNESCO. Jawaharlal Nehru wrote to him and said “come on your terms and we will accept”. Even when the British government informed him that the Queen wished to grant him a knighthood he politely declined as the title of KBE can only be granted to British nationals. Dr Salam remained a citizen of Pakistan and selflessly fought many battles for his country.

    Munir Ahmed Khan, formerly chairman of the PAEC, aptly eulogised Dr Salam in November 1997, saying: “we Pakistanis may chose to ignore Dr Salam but the world at large will always remember him.” In 1979, Jamiluddin Aali, a renowned journalist, wrote a newspaper article once titled “Two failed heroes of the east are celebrated universally”, referring to Mother Teresa and Dr Salam. Mother Teresa is now on the fast track to sainthood. While memories of Dr Abdus Salam are honoured by many around the world, in his own country they are even today buried under prejudice and disregard, erased from textbooks and mainstream publications. The loss is surely ours.

  29. Khalid R Hasan says:
    November 23rd, 2006 8:44 am

    Abdus Salam was a giant among the world’s scientists of his time and acknowledged everywhere as such. At Imperial College around 1970-72, I once saw him dining in the students cafeteria, and to my surprise even the English students of engineering instantly recognised him and spoke of him with respect.

    An earlier memory is reading a series of articles he wrote in the Sunday “Dawn” in the early 1960′s on the state of particle physics at the time. So far as I’m concerned he was an early role model and his religion didn’t matter at all.

  30. king_faisal says:
    November 23rd, 2006 9:25 am

    issue is not whether qadianis are muslims but instead whether the government should be in the business of deciding which sect is muslim and which sect is not. i would argue that we would have been better off had the government not stuck its nose in this messy affair because for following reason:

    the second amendment i.e. the amendment which declared qadianis as non-muslims set an extremely dangerous precedence. the amendment was essentially acceptance by the government that going forward it would play a role in enforcing laws made with the intent of upholding religious norms as defined by narrow segment of the clergy. up until this point i.e. before the second amendment, government had resisted all attempts by the mullahs to shove their values down the throat of the awam. mullahs had caused a huge riot in lahore over the ahmedi issue in early 50′s but the government stood firm against them. similarly mullahs puffed and brayed when govt introduced women’s right legislation in the sixties but the government told mullahs to buzz off. banning of sharab was another demand of the mullah that was resisted. and as the result of 1971 elections indicated govt was justified in taking a tough line against the mullahs because the awam was not buying what mullahs were selling.

    yet despite mullah’s lack of support within the awam, bhutto chose to play ball with them thereby setting on a path for his own destruction. the second amendment caused mullahs to smell blood – gave energy and impetus to the whole tubqa. mullahs realised that if they upped the ante, govts going forward would bow down before them. it was the mullahs who drove the anti-bhutto agitation after the 76 elections. to placate the mullahs bhutto went on an islamisation drive result of which was banning of sharab and declaration of jumma as day of sabbath.

    khai’r whats done is done. i dont think much purpose will be served in opening up ahmedi debate because issue only impacts a very tiny segment of the population and mullahs would have another reason for making our lives more difficult. ahmedi issue also points out the danger to our society if we have govt without checks and balances. give mullahs an inch and they will take a mile. no better example of this than iran.

  31. MQ says:
    November 23rd, 2006 9:33 am

    Shahid Husain,

    A great story! Thanks for posting it. Many of us didn’t know all these things about this great son of Pakistan. Now we do.

  32. G.A. says:
    November 23rd, 2006 10:17 am

    Not to start another war but I am wondering why Pakistanis are/were so proud of A.Q. Khan. He is considered a hero because he helped Pakistan develop a nuclear weapons program, which isn’t something to be proud of. The only purpose of nuclear weapons is to eradicate large amounts of humanity. I won’t bother mentioning other effects of nuclear weapons on environment etc. I guess nationalism is more important to many Pakistanis than humanism. Aside from that, he stole the technology to do it and then brought even more shame to Pakistan by selling nuclear technology to others for personal gain. Brilliant!! We should have more heros like him.

  33. Yahya says:
    November 23rd, 2006 10:40 am

    I think he was given the knighthood in 1989 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_British_Empire) but due to not accepting British citizen it is honorary and he can not use the word “Sir”, which is one more word apart from word “Muslim” that can not go on his grave.

  34. Yahya says:
    November 23rd, 2006 11:14 am

    [quote comment="11705"]mullahs had caused a huge riot in lahore over the ahmedi issue in early 50′s but the government stood firm against them. [/quote]

    But this was not without its consequences. The riot caused the first marshal law in Pakistan which gave the first taste of power to the army even if it was done with the good intention of maintaining peace. So thank you Mullahs for brining the “jin” of military out in the first place.

  35. bhindigosht says:
    November 23rd, 2006 11:28 am

    Shabaz,
    [quote post="431"]I have little doubt that the beliefs of Qadianies are false enough and preposterous enough to declare them non-Muslims.[/quote]

    Don’t you think this is part of the problem i.e. citizens taking it upon themselves to declare others Muslim or non-Muslim? Don’t you think anyone who calls himself/herself Muslim should be considered one for all intents and purposes? Surely we can leave the intricacies to be worked out between Man and God.

    As far as Dr. Salam is concerned, I am hopeful that in the pursuit of “enlightened moderation” , the Govt may yet embrace and celebrate him.

  36. Adnan Ahmad says:
    November 23rd, 2006 11:50 am

    humein bhi yaad kurr lena chaman mein jab bahar aayaey

    Thank you Shahid Husain for posting this piece. My eyes were wet while reading it. Very Cathartic. Years ago when I was in grad school and used to flaunt my knowledge of economics I came across Shahzad Ahmad’s translation of Dr. Salam’s essays on various topics. Reading thru just the first couple of pages of his one essay made me realize how little I knew and how limited my perspective was. Bilal correctly points out that Salam was no less than Einstein.

    May be ATP should mark this day in the calendar. It should be a day for collective recollection.

  37. Hamza says:
    November 23rd, 2006 12:45 pm

    Here’s another blog posting that tells us a bit more about Dr. Salam.

  38. MQ says:
    November 23rd, 2006 1:02 pm

    Isn’t it a great irony that Pakistan’s two true great heroes are not really owned by Pakistan? Salam, born and schooled in Jhang and Faiz in Sialkot. How much more native one could get? The former went on to receive the Nobel prize and world recognition and the latter won the Lenin Award (the Socialist world’s equivalent of the Nobel prize) and a place in millions of hearts the world over (barring the mullah’s, of course. Their hearts are made of something esle). Both of these great men never uttered an angry word, let alone hateful speech, against their country or their tormentors. Salam gave all his prize money to his school in Jhang, and Faiz, when in despair and in exile, simply would express his unhappiness, never anger, in lines like:

    Aur kitnoN ka lahoo chaahi-aye aye arz-i- watan?
    Kitni aahoN say kalaija tera thanda ho ga?

  39. Ahsan says:
    November 23rd, 2006 1:04 pm

    I am glad that you have taken the initiative of reviving the memory of Dr. Abdus Salam. Dr. Salam is the greatest Scientific mind that the Indus Valley (present Pakistan) has ever produced. Such a brilliant son of the soil was indeed badly treated by his country. No matter, he was a Muslim or not, he was very religious person. He never hid his religion and never hesitated to talk of Islam in International Scientific Conferences. I remember, in the Summer of 1987, in Istambul (Turkey), during an International Physics Conference he started his Inaugral Speech with an Ayet from the Holy Book.

    Basically, it does not matter if he was either Muslim or not. He had his Faith, but he himself was beyond any Faith because he was a good “Human Beingâ€

  40. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    November 23rd, 2006 1:17 pm

    Saadia khan you missed the point. I saw this post first time very early in the morning,i read it and navigated away due to lack of Intrest on certain topic but I knew that some of loony leftist would standup and would blame to other community and MQ guy didn’t take much time to prove me right. I was like WTF.. could God create such an ignorant and extreemist invidual
    for certain community that can’t make a read for certain issue?

    Ignorance is not an excuse, everyone has an access to Internet and libraries and everyone could have access to books for any topic/religion in the world including the book “Roohani khazain” by Mirza. If a person after having so much luxuries is still not able to comprehend something and comes out to blame others then he should curse to his own mental infertility rather condemning others for his own weakness, therefore statments like “In my opnion i have doubt for certain thing” or “so called muslims” don’t hold water.

    I repeat, I am least intrested what some xyz follows as long as he doesnt bug me. But whenever somene attack me[or my belief or anything associated with me], I would definately try to stop him. Secularist freedom doesn’t preach to poison someone else’s religion. Whatver happened with Salam was shameful and I equally agree. The reason why the constitution introduced some clause to declare them official non-muslims would have certain attributes[prolly the genuine reason was declarig a 'false prophet' in the name of Islam and this is something which was not done by any other Islamic sect] but yes i do feel it was a bit unfair with qadyanis only becasue there are other sects as well who preach their own words in the name of Islam. Either declare all to non-muslims or to none. I’m also against social boycott of qadyanis, atleast my family never boycotted any qadyani in life that’s why we have few qadyanis around in real life so there is no issue with me atleast to cope with qadyanis or Shias who are called kafirs by people of certain community.

    There was no need to give reference of “no compulsion in religion in Islam”. I don’t care what’s your belief. My reply was certaintly to yet another absurd claim by MQ and I have right to speak when same Quran which you guys refers talks about “Amar Bil maroof”. If I had intention to reply against qadyanis or salam then I could be the first one to reply against
    salam’s belief. still if someone considers me anti qadyani or anything then I don’t care.
    MQ made this post another mullah bashing post instead of giving me lectures and being baised.

    Speaking of giving rights to minority, bibi now even majority don’t have freedom of prayers. if this article by Jawed chaudhary is really true then all people who declare themselves muslims should mourn on this issue. At one side we make an issue about local temples while on other hand we close our eyes about our own matters. Hypocrisy rules!

  41. khalid says:
    November 23rd, 2006 2:11 pm

    Thank you for putting an interesting article and thank you shahid hussain for writing in detail about Mr Abdul Salam.

  42. zamanov says:
    November 23rd, 2006 2:22 pm

    ATP Thank you for posting this piece and in a small way remembering a great scientist and patriot son of the soil. Since this post was about his contribution to science and how he was treated by the state, I think it’s pointless to argue about his beliefs. He did not win a Nobel prize for converting people to his beliefs (nor was that his intent) and he wanted Pakistan to benefit from his personage as a scientist!

    The people who get their knickers all twisted up about his beliefs are of the same ilk who try to discredit Jinnah for his liberalism and always come up with something or the other to prove how these great personalities were non-Muslims or lesser believers. However misguided that may be it can be tolerated in the interest of free speech. But what a society cannot and should not deny is the genius of these great people who actually contributed something to this world and tried to improve the lives of Pakistanis in the face of great odds and obstacles.
    No one is asking for Dr Abdus Salam to be declared the patron saint of orthodox Islam. His contribution and stature is in the world of science; his work ethic, his love for his country and his desire to improve the life of his countrymen should humble every single person who ever calls himself Pakistani. Let the state and humanity of Pakistan recognize him for that and let’s ensure that our children learn and never forget their true heroes.

  43. November 23rd, 2006 2:37 pm

    Bilal Zuberi just posted a related post on his blog which included the text of Dr. Salam’s speech at the Nobel Banquest. I thought it was worth sharing here. I thought it was telling that despite everything he makes it a point to accept the award on behalf of Pakistan, and not just himself; and his pride in Urdu:

    Abdus Salam’s speech at the Nobel Banquet, December 10, 1979

    Your Majesties, Excellencies, Ladies and Gentlemen,

    On behalf of my colleagues, Professor Glashow and Weinberg, I thank the Nobel Foundation and the Royal Academy of Sciences for the great honour and the courtesies extended to us, including the courtesy to me of being addressed in my language Urdu.

    Pakistan is deeply indebted to you for this.

    The creation of Physics is the shared heritage of all mankind. East and West, North and South have equally participated in it. In the Holy Book of Islam, Allah says

    “Thou seest not, in the creation of the All-merciful any imperfection, Return thy gaze, seest thou any fissure. Then Return thy gaze, again and again. Thy gaze, Comes back to thee dazzled, aweary.â€

  44. MQ says:
    November 23rd, 2006 3:05 pm

    Adil, I think today’s post on Salam was the best so far on ATP. I like to think I am an educated person in terms of number of years I have spent at college and different universities, but I knew so little about Salam other than the fact that he was a brilliant scientist and had won a Nobel Prize.

    I have learned so much today about this brilliant individual — about his other dimensions in life — from your post and from some very good, sensible and informative comments that I feel like kicking myself for not reading about Salam earlier.

    (I don’t mind the occasional and proverbial dog in the manger as long as the discussion stays on course and we keep learning from each other. I am a great believer of free speech. Wait a minute, I said speech, not abusive drivel.)

  45. fm says:
    November 23rd, 2006 3:39 pm

    Whenever I listen Dr. Salam’s name i m always proud that he is from my city, JHANG.
    Hats off to Dr. Salam
    May his sould Rest in Peace

  46. MQ says:
    November 23rd, 2006 4:19 pm

    I might be getting slightly off topic but, please, allow me to share one observation about the “mullah mindset”.

    Now that Pakistan is there to the benefit of everyone, the mullahs usually refer to Mr. Jinnah as Quadi-Azam Alai Rehmat, pay him ritualistic tributes and also occasionally quote his speeches to prove their point.

    But reading the old papers about Pakistan movement I came across the following “nugget” by a great mullah of the time. He paid his complements to the Quaid in the following words:

    Ik kafira kay waastay Islam ko chorra
    Yeh Quaid-i-Azam hai, keh hai Kafir-i-Azam

    [For an infidel woman he left Islam. Is he a great leader or a great infidel?]

    So, there you are.

    I am sorry for digression.

  47. Imran Ahsan Mirza says:
    November 23rd, 2006 4:44 pm

    Professor Salam was one the greatest Physicist of the last century. He was among the top people who got a breakthrough in understanding the nature of forces. His discovery of unification of weak nuclear force and electromagnetic force strengthened the theoretical ideas proposed by Einstein. His scholarly work comprises of about 250 PhDs.

  48. Mariam says:
    November 23rd, 2006 10:08 pm

    Why everyone claims that Ahmadi (Qadyani is a derogatory term) believe in some other kind of Islam. Here at these websites The Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement and Al Islam, I haven’t come across any “objectionableâ€

  49. sepoy says:
    November 23rd, 2006 11:23 pm

    As a young student in Lahore, I wrote – at the behest of my teacher Prof. Nasir – a fan letter to Dr. Abdus Salam – confessing my interest in Quantum Mechanics. A few weeks later, a package arrived from his Zurich office filled with books and a letter encouraging me to pursue my dreams.

    We carry his memory in our hearts.

  50. Muhammad Hafeez says:
    November 25th, 2006 3:13 am

    Shoaib. Yes, we (at least I) have considered why it is so. That is how I came to the conclusion that it was wrong. The state has no busines deciding these things, certainly not this state and certainly not these religious parties.

  51. saima nasir says:
    November 24th, 2006 12:02 am

    I am re-producing an article here, by Tehmina Masud which was published in
    The News Post, on December 5, 1996.

    SALAM REMEMBERED

    “Abdus Salam is dead. A titan has fallen. As part of His grand design, the Creator sometimes produces a giant like Abdus Salam in a nation which has otherwise produced and patronised pygmies.

    Salam’s high intellect and vision to transform Pakistan into a nation at the forefront of science and technology had little relevance to a country which has always been eager to plunge backwards. In the late thirties and early forties, some of the greatest scientists in Europe faced Nazi persecution and were forced to emigrate to the US where they revolutionised American science.

    In the early stages of his career, finding the Pakistani soil hostile, Salam left Pakistan to enrich European science. For about three decades he worked in the UK and Italy. All these years he was adored by Italians whose language he did not speak or understand, revered by Britishers whose culture he hardly liked and despised by his own countrymen whose affection he always sought.

    In a country where there were hardly any scientists or technologists who had the intellect, imagination or will to think or act in a big way, Salam had little say in the affairs of science and technology in Pakistan. He made passionate appeal to his countrymen when at Faiz Memorial Lecture at Lahore he said:

    “If you consider me a non-Muslim….that is your problem. Treat me as a non-Muslim mason if you like, but do let me lay a few bricks for the mosque you want to build.”

    Nobody really cared for him or his words. About the loss of great people, Shakespeare said “the Heavens themselves blaze forth the death of princes.” The skies may by in mourning over Salam’s death but there is hardly any gloom or grief seen in the land in which he was born and now lies buried. Those who mattered most were too busy in the mundane duties of the State to find time to receive his body at the Lahore Airport or place any floral wreaths on his grave.

    Our nation stands diminished by its treatment of Salam. Who knows how many centuries we may have to wait before we produce another Salam. Societies and civilisations which do not respect their scholars and thinkers are destined to vanish. ”

    Its about time that the children in pakistani schools be introduced to this great man. Who was just not a genius, but an exceptional, generous and a caring human being.

    It is personlities like him, which can inspire the young pakistanis, that passion and sincereity is always rewarded. He is among those ‘real heroes’ of Pakistan , who can actually touch the hearts and souls.

    The govt. of Pakistan, is in the process of making changes in the curriculum and in the text books. I guess, adding a few chapters on Dr. Abdul Salam and his work, at all levels of studies, will be a fruitful execrise. If nothing else,it will reinstate the younger lots’ faith in the tradition of inquiry, thinking and looking for answers, which is crushed rather early, by most teachers if not all, in our schools, in the name of discipline.

  52. Shoaib Shafique says:
    November 24th, 2006 12:29 am

    Never the less he was a great scientist, not to be controversial about that, we must recommend him on the state level as a personality that has acquired a “Nobel prize” for Pakistan, but it is not required/necessary that to may ever has acquired an extra ordinary work for Pakistan, we call him/her as a Muslim, is it necessary? Definitely not!

  53. Ambreen says:
    November 24th, 2006 1:32 pm

    Ahsan is exactly right. This is Dr. Salam’s achievement not of any religion or country. It is, however, the very bad reflection on our country and all of us how we treated him and so many others.

  54. TURAB says:
    November 24th, 2006 1:39 am

    “If you consider me a non-Muslim….that is your problem. Treat me as a non-Muslim mason if you like, but do let me lay a few bricks for the mosque you want to build.â€

  55. Ahsan says:
    November 24th, 2006 2:12 am

    Let us be clear about the Nobel Prize of Dr. Abdus Salam. He was awarded this prize for his personal scientific achievements in a particular field of Physics. His “Nobel Prize” was neither for Pakistan nor for Islam. Pakistan and Islam may be proud of him but they can not enhance his echievements. On the other hand Pakistan and Islam can ignore him if they wish but they can not diminish the value of his Nobel Prize. All the credit goes to Dr. Abdus Salam for his achievement.

    Ahsan

  56. Faheem Sultan says:
    November 24th, 2006 5:24 pm

    It is nice to see widespread respect for Dr. Salam and maybe govt should realize this too and honor his memory as it should be. The issue of religion is a different one and we need to seperate it from this. It is about state and religion and whether the constitution is the place to make decisions on religion. Bhutto played dirty politics with this issue.

    Also, let us remember that Dr. Salam is not the only great Paksitani who was ignored. Many others were also, many for very different reasons other than religion.

  57. November 24th, 2006 1:45 pm

    [quote post="431"]Qadyani is a derogatory term)[/quote]

    why is it a derogatory?. Qadyanis are those who live/used in ‘Qadyan/Qadian’. A small town near Gordaspur, India where he was born.

    Mirza ghulam used this term in his name as ‘Mirza Ghulam Qadyani’, something which is like ‘Hafeez Jalandhri’ or ‘Sahir Ludhyanvi’. I don’t understand why this term is considered offensive when their supreme head never felt ashamed of it?.

    [quote post="431"]The Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement and Al Islam, I haven’t come across any “objectionableâ€

  58. Faarabi says:
    November 24th, 2006 2:51 pm

    Adnan Siddiqi,
    Now that you have criticized him I think my respect for Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has increased . Now I will read Mirza Sahab’s books with affection and for a reason to learn.

  59. November 24th, 2006 2:59 pm

    [quote post="431"]Now that you have criticized him[/quote]

    criticized Where? I am just clarifying something rather critizing. You took it in wrong manner, why, I don’t know at all.

    [quote post="431"]Now I will read Mirza Sahab’s books with affection and for a reason to learn.[/quote]

    Haven’t you read them yet?:) anyway I’m happy that I become a source of motivation for someone:>

  60. faizan sultan shah says:
    November 24th, 2006 3:22 pm

    This is not new thing . we believe prophet peace be upon him was greatest man in human history . he was best of the best prophet . lo la khalaqat al aflaq . he will be shafie on judgement day . peace be upon him peace be upon him.
    you know some of very hard facts .
    he was believed in his home town . jews in medina never believe and cristian in wold did not belive him . is that made any diference no not all .
    regardless quadiany are kafir or not . tell mullah in muslim world did samething kufar e meeca did . you know plan kufar e meeca came up to kill our beloved prophet
    day was september 7 . kufar e meeca did samething what pakistan national assemble did .
    anydody know this fact only 2 king in indian history banned azhan they were ranjeet singh and zia ul haq .
    you are talking abou about qadiani book get a life read what chirstian say about quran did that make any diference no not atll
    talking about kafir all those mullah behind declaring qadiani kafir they do not perform salam behid other mullas . is that sad ? if any quadani want to change his was what knid of muslim the have to become ?
    i should not bring all these religon stuff . it was very good discossion about salam . i have to show some ignorant narrow mind muslom some facts

  61. November 24th, 2006 3:53 pm

    I am sorry my friend , I was keep getting impressed by reading your thought provoking post unless i read these goldren words by you:

    [quote post="431"]about qadiani book get a life read what chirstian say about quran [/quote]

    If I’m being a narrow-minded then you didn’t sound different than me and I didn’t read rest of your post. Maybe I have read bible and torah more than you or anyone else or maybe I have got more chances than anyone else to make a read of ‘Gita’ but this is not an arena for one to demonstrate his/her skills. Yes I would say that I am thankfully not dependant on any *mullah*’s thought to chose some path, neither I ever gotinto things who was my imam in certain prayer. Those who know me quite well are certainly aware of that fact so I’m least bothered what someone thinks about me.

  62. Mariam says:
    November 24th, 2006 9:47 pm

    Adnan,

    [quote post="431"]why is it a derogatory?.[/quote]

    It’s not the meaning but the way how some people use it on the people from Qadyan. It’s like the same how brown people are offended when White Europeans called them Paki. Though before visiting Europe I never think it as a derogatory term but you had to be in brown person shoes to need to understand it.

    [quote post="431"]Again dependant on media *grin*. [/quote]

    Your comment might be true for some obscure site. But these are official sites, Thanks to the free flow of knowledge via Internet I am able to distinguish between truth and fabrications of evil minds.

    P.S. I know what most people were forced to read.

  63. Fawad says:
    November 24th, 2006 10:08 pm

    Adil, as always thanks for this great post. It is only in the last few years that I became acquainted with Salam’s incredible personal story and some basics of his great scientific achievements. The overwhelming feelings I had were one of sadness at the treatment meted out to him but also a profound respect for the decency and humanity of this virtuous man. It is testimony after testimony of ordinary people who were touched by him at a personal level that leaves one in awe. I believe that Dr. Abdus Salam was one of the greatest of Pakistanis and that in a just country his death anniversary would be as big a commemorative event as any and his legacy would be celebrated by every Pakistani.

    I am heartened by the community that ATP is creating in which the values of a progressive and just Pakistan are finding such admirable voice (even as it is completely open to those who don’t necessarily share that vision). This is a triumph for Pakistaniat. Adil, sorry for being carried away but amongst so much that is and has been wrong with Pakistan its the little things that give us hope that one day the country will live up to its founder’s hopes and dreams for it. As Dina Wadia wrote in the visitor’s book at Quaid’s mausoleum “May his dream for Pakistan come true”.

  64. November 25th, 2006 12:16 am

    [quote post="431"]It’s not the meaning but the way how some people use it on the people from Qadyan[/quote]

    That’s your interpetition mariam. As I said that when a supreme leader of a religion never felt ashamed then why do followers get touchy? According to your theory, I should stop calling myself a muslim because muslims are also referred as ‘Moslem’ by west which sounds as mawzlem which changes the entire meaning.

    [quote post="431"]Your comment might be true for some obscure site. But these are official sites[/quote]

    Mariam my old time friend, Unlike you, I don’t visit websites to practise Islam while I have my own copy of orignal text books;Quran and Hadiths. I even don’t trust any sunni site blindly because I know owners of the site uusually potray *good things* rather presenting because I know some sunni sect would never highlite dark sides infront of public therefore I never believe in media and its lies and I read the orignal books rather beliving in interpitition.

    [quote post="431"]Thanks to the free flow of knowledge via Internet I am able to distinguish between truth and fabrications of evil minds[/quote]

    Not my problem mariam, I wouldn’t say anything since it would be like battling with an unarmed person. However whatever mode of learning you adapt, I respect it.

  65. November 25th, 2006 12:34 am

    The irony is that every Tom,dick and Harry has started scolding/preaching/lecturing me because I said something about Qadyanism[not about salam,two different things] get spoofed somewhere when many of people here criticise on Mullah or on Islam, then nobody came up with golden lines that ‘we should follow Islam’ or ‘its between us and Allah’. What should it be called, you know it better. What I see that mentally we’re still under british raj who first started offending Islamic people; Imams,Molvis,Muftis etc and our educated class who has earned degree from USA,UK and other countries feel very proud to demonstrate this mental slavery. What can I say, I can just laugh at them. Same british people didn’t allow us to make fun of pontiffs,rabis etc. It’s true I haven’t visit much countries but I can claim something after particpiating in infinite different online forums that I never experienced that common hindu making fun of Pundits and Swamis or a jew makes fun of Rabis or christian make fun of Preists. I didn;t see any christian cursing to pope after his lunatic remarks about our Prophet[SAW]. Unlike Islam their religion didnt preach much to respect a religion and its associates and those guys still respect the Pontiff. I think this is why George Bernard Shaw said something like, Islam is the best religion and Muslims are the worst followers and I recently came across the best advise given by God in Quran:


    … ye hear the signs of God held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For God will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith – all in Hell:-(4:140)

    Cheers.

  66. Mariam says:
    November 25th, 2006 1:47 am

    Adnan,

    I need your help. Here is Rooh-e-Khazana. Now tell me where does he says that he is a prophet (that’s the problem due to which they were deemed to given lower status).

    [quote post="431"]As I said that when a supreme leader of a religion never felt ashamed then why do followers get touchy?[/quote]

    Because this Slur was never used against members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community (Ahmadis) by the Sunni/Shia to show hate and disgust in his life time. Its up to you but if someone say that they wouldn’t like to be reffered as certain term then I would refrain from it. If I keep using it then it means I disrespect them and their feelings.

  67. Shoaib Shafique says:
    November 25th, 2006 2:51 am

    Well the thing is that the ammendment they have made under the guidance of British, by following Mirza. Ghulam Ahmed, led them to astray the path of Islam, well it is very easy to criticize the molvies, for what they have done to make a law in the reign of Zia and Bhutto, but have you considered why this is so?

    Shoaib

  68. shoaib shafique says:
    November 25th, 2006 7:43 am

    Prior to you Muhammad, it must have been understand that law gives the liberty to the state to do so, and they did rightly by availing the facility, we must have to appreciate Abdus Salam as a Pakistani, as has got “Nobel Prize” for us, not by stating a muslim, as what may ever brings pride to pakistan , we simply can not state that he is muslim, is is necessary? i think it is not!

  69. Asma says:
    November 25th, 2006 7:54 am

    Unfortunately MOST of the people here are concerned with the religious fallacies they’ve in their minds … rather then the brilliance he showed throughout his life … sadly our youth is not MUCH aware of gems like him and many others we had … some in hiding … some we know … I remember in my 9th class physics book for the first time under MUSLIM SCIENTISTS a brief intro of Dr abdus salam was introduced and most of the girls were not even aware of him … A PITY INDEED… It’s a very nice post … may Allah bless Dr salam’s soul in eternal peace and bless him with jannah and may Allah bless us with minds like him … Ameen

    I liked this picturesque flashback in past too …!

    Alhamdolillah Dr salam and all other Ahmadiis are MUSLIMS … NO human being is liable at all to proclaim them as non muslims … whatsoever… !

    Anyways …!

  70. Haider says:
    November 25th, 2006 8:01 am

    A wonderful article that is really astonishing and I believe many of us did not know that all this happened to Dr. Abdus Salam.But one point is really quite contradicting.

    “But Pakistan needs to feel guilty about what it has done to the greatest scientist it ever produced in comparison to the lionisation of Dr AQ Khan who has brought ignominy and the label of ‘rogue state’ to Pakistan by selling the country’s nuclear technology for personal gain.”

    What a fallicious and wrong comparison you have done. This is not a comparison. In fact, it is a similarity. Both did enough for Pakistani and both are humiliated by our Govt.
    AQ did not brought label of ‘rogue state’ to Pakistan. Instead he took all the blame on him just to save the country as well as Govt. of that time. Don’t you know that a centrifuge is not of the size of a needle that a single person can hide and transfer. It really needs a C-130 to move it.
    I am not justifying AQ but bringing the fact to you.

    So do blame the Govt. as well as people for humiliating AS but don’t blame AQ for what he has not done.Instead try to know again a scientist is being humiliated!

  71. Haider says:
    November 25th, 2006 8:09 am

    For you MARIAM if you still don’t find any thing objectionable in Qadyanies.

    http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/

    I know they will surely say it is a false Propaganda against them. But just ask any of the Qadayani How Did There First GREAT SUPREME Leader died

  72. Yahya says:
    November 25th, 2006 9:31 am

    So did we end up celebrating Abdus Salam or condemning everything he believed in? I am not sure which one.

    One wonders if it is even worth bringing up this topic. Perhaps we should leave it for another 50 years and see how it fares then?

  73. Yahya says:
    November 25th, 2006 9:43 am

    Haider, I am sure many will find something objectionable in what you believe whatever is it you believe (in fact if you tell me what you believe I may be able to come up with some objections myself) but it still does not give them right to come over and twist your arm into accepting to believe what you do not actually believe. Unfortunately many here seem to imply that they do have a right to do this to Abdus Salam, even after he is dead and it has become a moot point and just a matter of respect to allow him to declare whatever he believed himself to be.

    It also shows that some people have not been able to accept that he did not belong to their “clan” regardless of his services for everyone including their clan. Primitive if you ask me.

  74. Yahya says:
    November 25th, 2006 12:20 pm

    [quote comment="12093"]For you MARIAM if you still don’t find any thing objectionable in Qadyanies.

    http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/

    I know they will surely say it is a false Propaganda against them. But just ask any of the Qadayani How Did There First GREAT SUPREME Leader died[/quote]

    Haider let me ask you this; How Did *your* First GREAT SUPREME Leader die? This is a rhetorical question. Point being are you defined by what other say about you or by what you believe yourself to be? Feel free to think about it as I don’t think you did before you made the above comment.

  75. Shafeeq says:
    November 25th, 2006 6:50 pm

    This conversation is now making me uncomfortable for the same reason I had said in earlier comment. It is wrong for US to try to decide whether this community is or is not a Muslim for the same reasons that it is wrong for the government or parliament to decide that. None of us is capable of making judgements that are Allah’s to make and that only Allah can make. As someone else said, maybe it is better if we all try to become better muslims rather than trying to make sure that others are ‘good enough’ Muslims.

  76. November 25th, 2006 2:17 pm

    Watever happened with Salam is not new with a Pakistani and it has no relation with a religion. AQ Khan was not a qadyani still he was offended. Adnan Sami khan left pakistan not because he was a qadyani but his own people left him all alone and he was respected in India. Our great geniuss actoress Roho Bano is in Fountainhead mental hospital not because of religion but due to ignorance by the people who cashed and left him all alone. It’s not a religious issue, its all due to our cunning nature of us that we never paid
    tribute to our heroes. Yesterday it happened with dr.salam,today it happend with AQ Khan,tomorrow it could happen with one of your kids who might shine aas a bright star in field of science or any other field. It’s better you secure future of your kids rather waste your life what a mullah did or how MMA twisted their statments about hudood or any XYZ law. These things won’t make your child a better citizen, your own attributes would reflect from him. So better fix yourself rather continue blame game.

  77. November 25th, 2006 3:51 pm

    Being an Indian and a minority in my country, I think I might provide another perspective.

    I feel Pakistan as a country should definitely give respect to Dr Salam. However, if ordinary Muslims are biased against Qadianis then it is not their fault.

    In fact, if a Parsi/Hindu/Christian or any other sect would have won the prize, it would not have been such an issue.
    However, Qadianis are a heretic sect that strikes at core Islamic beliefs.

    Mariam Sahiba and Adnan have put their points well. The fact is that Qadiani beliefs affect Muslims much more than a Christian or a Sikh belief. And Qadianis are often seen as aggressive proselytizers who try to convert Muslims. Thus the fear. Whatever websites say, Qadiani and Lahori beliefs are quite well documented and known to us.

    However, it is not government’s role to deny any individual his respect in society just because of his faith. It is the sign of a society’s weakness when they don’t give due respect to Dr Salam. The thought lurking in mind is perhaps that ‘we the 140 million Muslims who are on right path could not produce one intelligent man deserving a Nobel but the belief that follower of a heretic sect, got such intellect and ultimately the award, scares the society.

    Muslims don’t have that problem with Christians or Sikhs or Jews or Buddhists as their beliefs don’t clash with the concept of Prophet Muhammad as last Prophet. But Qadianis do believe that there were prophets after and apostles will come even in future.

    And this makes us all uncomfortable. Ba Khuda diwana bashad, ba Mohammad Hoshiyar (one can turn loony and take liberties with god but be careful when you are talking about the Prophet). Still, as a society Pakistanis must give Qadianis all rights and Muslims must tyy to be as liberal and understanding towards them as possible.

    Think, if you were born in a Qadiani family, what would you have done? A hypothetical situation but I am sure you would shudder to think. Extremely tough laws exist in Pakistan and there is no need to make such an atmosphere in the country where it becomes difficult for a law-abiding person to live.

  78. November 25th, 2006 10:31 pm

    Khalid Hasan just published a masterful column on Dr. Salam in Daily Times. It is full of insightful details about Abdus Salam the person and also about the times he lived through. It is VERY much worth a read.

    There are many (too many) who write columns, there are very few who are columnists in the true spirit of the term. Khalid Sahib is one of them; in fact, he is amongst the best of them. This essay on Dr. Salam shows why.

  79. November 26th, 2006 12:59 am

    Raho Bano is actually our great actoress Roohi Bani who is in Fountain Mental Hospital in Lahore and leading a miserable ending days.

  80. KTN says:
    November 26th, 2006 1:06 am

    May Pakistan see many more Dr. Salams in the future……….

    Doubt it though

    On a side note, Adnan Siddiqi Sahib…did you just Really compare Dr. Abdus Salam to the likes of Adnan Sami?

  81. November 26th, 2006 1:33 am

    KTN:

    you missed the point. Actually everyone here was whining talking that something bad happened with Mr.Salam and were blaming to a community.

    Sorry, I didn’t get agreed with the idea because in Pakistan ‘a celebrity’ whether It’s about Salam,AQ Khan or an actor or singer? Why are you degrading Adnan Sami? just because He’s a ‘Gawwya’[Singer]. Sami is genius in his feild like Salam was genius of his field. Adnan Sami holds the ‘world fastest keyboard/piaono player’ in Guiniess Book of Record. I have listened his composition invidual and with Zakir Hussain and they are truly amazing and reminded me composition of Ravi Shankar. Salam got a nobel prize doesn’t mean others in Pakistan were mere parasites. Think out of the box rather following a traditional path.

    [quote post="431"]The thought lurking in mind is perhaps that ‘we the 140 million Muslims who are on right path could not produce one intelligent man deserving a Nobel but the belief that follower of a heretic sect, got such intellect and ultimately the award, scares the society.[/quote]

    *nods*, another name comes in mind; ‘Najeeb Mehfooz’ then IAEA’s Mohammad ALbardai-Everyone knows Bardai’s toe licking policies against Muslim countries. Why hans blix was not given a nobel prize? just because he was not agreed to buy a theory which Whitehouse wanted him to say to outer world.

    I am not sure but I think most of Salam’s work was not done in Pakistan. Offcourse we don’t have such facility. I wonder tht why other pakistanis like Dr. Saleemuz zaman were sent/provided similar facilities? what made salam so different than other. I don;t believe he was the only genius in Pakistan. He was also provided facilities to do Research which was not possible in Pakistan.

  82. MQ says:
    November 26th, 2006 9:39 am

    Adil Najam,

    It’s a great article by Khalid Hasan written in his inimitable style.

    After reading this post and the many comments on it I have reached a conclusion that the injustice in our society being perpetrated in the name of religion by the rulers, abetted by the “muftis” and “mullahs”, can only be removed if we consider what that master poet, Faiz (himself a victim of injustice) had to say in his poem “Sar-e-wadi-e-Seena”:

    Ab rasm-e-sitam hikmat-e-khasaan-e-zameeN hai
    Taaeed-e-sitam maslihat-e-mufti-e-deeN hai
    Ab sadiyoN kay iqrar-e-ataa’t ko badalnay
    Laazim hai keh inkar ka farmaaN koi utray

    I will attempt a rough tranlation:

    [While the tradition of injustice and cruelty is the ploy used by people in power, the "muftis" and "mullahs" find it expedient to abet and approve the injustice. Therefore, to change the centuries old Covenant of obedience it is imperative that we have a new Law from above that encourages disobedience.]

    I am not sure if I have been able to capture the essence of the poem. It will be nice if someone could render a more appropriate translation. It is a very thought provoking poem.

  83. KTN says:
    November 26th, 2006 2:46 pm

    you missed the point. Actually everyone here was whining talking that something bad happened with Mr.Salam and were blaming to a community.

    They were “whining” about it because that is indeed what happened. A ‘bad” thing (to say the least) happened to Dr. Salam precisely because of ignorance on part of an Entire community: Pakistan (for the most part) – not just the leaders. Why didn’t anyone protest against what happened when Dr. Salam’s body arrived in Pakistan to be buried? Our great leaders refused to honour his death with a ceremony. But nobody protested. That’s preposterous. In fact, many younger Pakistanis have no clue as to who the man is – perhaps not of their own fault. But it’s tragic. We don’t exactly have a long list of Nobel Prize Winners that remembering the ONLY one would be such a difficult task.

    Salam got a nobel prize doesn’t mean others in Pakistan were mere parasites. Think out of the box rather following a traditional path.

    I don’t recall having called anyone a “parasite.” Please don’t put words into my mouth. I detest that. I for one am very fond of music and art. But people are focusing on Salam here because it was a post Dedicated to him. Anyhow, in solely my own opinion, I do believe that Dr. Abdus Salam is in a different league than Sami, he’s not a mere “celebrity.” Not because he won the Nobel Prize. But because he was able to help millions of other aspiring scientists in the Third World to follow a dream that was otherwise close to imossible to follow had they remained in their own countries – I’m referring to the Salam Center in Italy. Another thing that significantly differs Salam from someone like Sami is that DESPITE the ludicrous treatment he was subjected to by his own nation, he chose to never abandon it. Proof: He declined passports offered by many other nations and his final wish was to have his body buried in his native land. He wanted the Abdus Salam center to be built in Pakistan but again, our brilliant leaders decliend the offer. And Italy gained from our loss. Actually I don’t even know why I’m having this conversation at all. Salam’s unique position in Pakistan, as well as the Muslim world, doesn’t need any justification.

    [quote post="431"]The thought lurking in mind is perhaps that ‘we the 140 million Muslims who are on right path could not produce one intelligent man deserving a Nobel but the belief that follower of a heretic sect, got such intellect and ultimately the award, scares the society.[/quote]

    Right path? Yes, that’s definitely thinking “outside the box.”

    I am not sure but I think most of Salam’s work was not done in Pakistan. Offcourse we don’t have such facility. I wonder tht why other pakistanis like Dr. Saleemuz zaman were sent/provided similar facilities? what made salam so different than other. I don;t believe he was the only genius in Pakistan. He was also provided facilities to do Research which was not possible in Pakistan.[/quote]

    He was unable to conduct his work in Pakistan because it simpy would not have been possible, keeping in mind all the restrictions that would have been imposed on him. As I mentioned earlier, he wanted the Salam Center to be built in his native land. But the government declined. I guess it’s better off this way. Pakistan simply doesn’t deserve it. And no he was not the Only genius. Nobody’s arguing that. You seem to be saying that Salam was in fact provided with Special Treatment by Pakistan. That was hardly the case. And you know it.

    Anyhow, sorry for the long post. But it had to be said.

    To borrow a phrase from Shakespheare,
    “The Heavens themselves blaze forth the death of princes.”

    May Salam’s soul rest in peace.

  84. KTN says:
    November 26th, 2006 3:16 pm

    Oh I just looked back and realized the quote I used has already been posted by Saima Nasir. Boy do I feel stupid. But great minds think alike I suppose ;)

  85. Yahya says:
    November 26th, 2006 6:15 pm
  86. MQ says:
    November 26th, 2006 7:23 pm

    Cowasjee on Salam in today’s Dawn here: http://dawn.com/weekly/cowas/cowas.htm

  87. November 27th, 2006 12:30 am

    KTN, whether Salam or Adnan Sami or some XYZ talented invidual Pakistani,no difference at all.
    What happened with salam happend with other Pakistanis too by using other excuses. Just because Salam sahib got a nobel prize in his field, it doesn;t allow you to offend the skills of other Pakistanis who performed great in their respective fields.

    [quote post="431"]Right path? Yes, that’s definitely thinking “outside the box.â€

  88. shoaib shafique says:
    November 27th, 2006 1:01 am

    [quote comment="12093"]For you MARIAM if you still don’t find any thing objectionable in Qadyanies.

    http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/

    I know they will surely say it is a false Propaganda against them. But just ask any of the Qadayani How Did There First GREAT SUPREME Leader died[/quote]

    I want to ask the same question from Asma.

  89. Yahya says:
    November 27th, 2006 1:42 am

    [quote comment="12405"][quote comment="12093"]For you MARIAM if you still don’t find any thing objectionable in Qadyanies.

    http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/

    I know they will surely say it is a false Propaganda against them. But just ask any of the Qadayani How Did There First GREAT SUPREME Leader died[/quote]

    I want to ask the same question from Asma.[/quote]

    shoaib shafique, I am not clear what your questions is? Are you saying that you have objection to someone else’s beliefs? Is this something new? Or are you objection to someone’s First GREAT SUPREME Leader? This is not new either. Many non-Muslims say all sort of things regarding holy prophet such as marrying an underage girl or that he promoted terrorism? Should we take it seriously, or allow others to harass us on every street corner of this world or to diminish our rights irrespective of how strongly they believe what they believe?

    Let’s be blunt. A vast majority of world population around 5 billion, considers holy prophet to be an impostor prophet and Islam a false religion and many believe Islam to be a religion that spreads terrorism. So what? They believe what they believe and we believe what we believe as long as everyone stays in their boundaries.

    If however you wish to throw dirt on others then please remember that others have the same right to throw dirt on you. When it happens please don’t cry blasphemy as you yourself have started it.

    I would appreciate if you could clarify the question?

  90. KTN says:
    November 27th, 2006 2:13 am

    Ok Adnan Sahib, you Completely ignored what I said in that entire paragraph. Either that or you’re simply not able to comprehend the English language. I’m not going to continue arguing with you. Not because I have run out of arguments..I’ve got plenty..But because I don’t want to Hijack this thread and turn it into something it was not intended to be. The discussion was about Dr. Abdus Salam, a great man, subjected to horrible treatment by his Native Land. We must reflect. And Honour him, at least after his death. May Allah Bless his Muslim soul :)

  91. KTN says:
    November 27th, 2006 2:23 am

    Just one more thing, in reference to this statement:

    “Ignorance is not an excuse my friend! As I said earlier that every one can read the concerned material rather demonstrating mentall illness and infertility to blame mullahs or anyone else,”

    you’re implying that people who differ in their views from yours are “mentally ill?” And the “blaming mullahs” (whatever that means) part just might stem from their religious sermons preaching the hatred and killing of Ahmaddiyas worldwide.

    I seriously hope that many other Pakistanis don’t have a common viewpoint as well. Otherwise, we’re doomed as a nation. Heck, the sooner the better I say.

  92. Adnan Siddiqi says:
    November 27th, 2006 2:40 am

    [quote post="431"] holy prophet such as marrying an underage girl or that he promoted terrorism[/quote]

    So tell me, do you agree with them or not?

    Comparing mirza sahib with Prophet itself is sign of stupidity but since it’s coming from your side so I’m not surprised.

    [quote post="431"]5 billion, considers holy prophet to be an impostor prophet and Islam a false religion and many believe Islam to be a religion.
    [/quote]

    Because those who talk crap about Islam belong to background of Judaism,Christianity,Hinduism,Aethism,Budhusm,agonistism,zoroastroanism etc etc and never claimed they belong to religion Islam or part of it.

    [quote post="431"]When it happens please don’t cry blasphemy as you yourself have started it[/quote]

    Somebody must redefine Blasphemy please?

    [quote post="431"]They believe what they believe and we believe what we believe as long as everyone stays in their boundaries.[/quote]

    Exactly! That’s why everyone who’s blaming to muslims for someone else sect SHOULD stay in boundaries rather pointing finger on us for someone else sins. We’re not pinching bags that every Tom,dick and harry comes and play with our belief. As far as What christians etc think about Islam , I’m sure noone of muslim gets scared rather feel insecure.

    [quote post="431"]Otherwise, we’re doomed as a nation. Heck, the sooner the better I say.[/quote]

    you live in dreams. We are already doomed,as a muslim that we offend our own religion and feel proud of it and as a nation offcourse that we feel ashamed that we live in a muslim state.

  93. November 27th, 2006 2:49 am

    Dr. Salam was like any other great man, a product of a society with limitations, and he worked within those theologically limited minds to create new theories and new solutions to a complex domain like physics.

    I find two things very interesting about him a) He said he was inspired by the Quran to come up with that prize winning theory, pointing to his own orthodoxy and blind faith in the Holy book and b) The fact that despite being a victim of Pakistan’s McCarthyist era, he still was so devoted to his country and people, as denoted by his outward traditional demeanor.

    After all is said and done, Dr. Salam was Pakistan’s Nobel. And no one can take that away.

    May God rest his soul in peace.

    Aisha Sarwari

  94. MQ says:
    November 27th, 2006 7:55 am

    I don’t want to comment on this post anymore because it has degenerated into a no-holds-barred religious fight. But I would like to say this much that anyone who mentions Salam and Sami Khan in the same breath can’t have an IQ more than the room temperature. (I don’t mean any offense to Sami Khan. He is a great singer. I like his voice and and also I knew him personally.)

  95. Farrukh says:
    November 27th, 2006 1:24 pm

    Dear MQ, I find the religosity that seems to be injected into every discussion very disturbing like many others. This is why I tune out of these discussions (don’t wory Adil, I never tune out of the site) and try not to feed the venom by indulging in it.

    However, let us also be fair. The suggestion that all Islamic scientists were persecuted is as unfair as the one that Salam’s treatment had nothing to do with his religious beliefs. I do not think that the way to respond to an extreme argument is with any equally (or more) extreme argument. What is it that they say, ‘an eye for an eye will only leave us with a blond village.’ Which, I fear, is what might happen here.

  96. Jake I. says:
    November 27th, 2006 12:51 pm

    I have had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Salam a few times and learning much from his work and spending some time in Trieste. I always knew that there was something about religion that made him controversial for his compatriots. I never understood what it was. I have never met any person who was as proud of his country as Dr. Salam was of Pakistani. I knew him to be a very religious person and a great ambassador for Muslims. He had as much on religion in his office as he had on physics. I know after 9-11 when there were discussions here in the US about Muslim contributions to the world I would always refer to Salam and point out that it was not just a great physicist whose research was ground-breaking but also that he saw the Quran as an inspiration for his research. Anyhow, I always thought he was controversial in his country because he was too religious. From this discussion here it seems I was wrong. What I do know is that the two times I did ask him about this he refused to answer and joked it away. But he did not say a single word against anyone at all.

  97. Anwar says:
    November 27th, 2006 9:50 am

    Salam is gone. His contributions to the country and science will remain – and his name will live for ever. He will be a role model for the knowledge seekers and belittled by narrow minded. People who taught me included Jews, Christians and Hindus, and Muslims during early education. I am thankfull to all for I am what they imparted to me – knowledge, wisdom, and character.
    Some of the posts on this site were a sad reflection of what we have unfortunately become.

  98. Mariam says:
    November 27th, 2006 9:53 am

    Adnan Siddiqi,

    [quote post="431"]Mashallah all of you are educated and have access to libraries and Internet, you guys could always read the sources rather making political statments right here. One can always read “Roohany Khazaenâ€

  99. November 27th, 2006 10:03 am

    If we go back into Pakistaniat.com discussions that turned into an all-out religious battle, I find it striking that the same few people go back and forth with the same old arguments. Folks: its getting really boring, and really annoying.

    I too hope this discussion will veer away from simply religion talk and get back to talking about Dr.Salam, his Pakistaniat, and his role in the future of Pakistan.

    As a personal quest, I hope someone on this blog will enlighten us with what Salam’s scientific work was all about. We all have heard of Einstein’s E=MC2 but do we know what Salam did? Here is what ICTP has to say about his work:

    Professor Salam is famous for that electroweak theory which is the mathematical and conceptual synthesis of the electromagnetic and weak interactions – the latest stage reached until now on the path towards the unification of the fundamental forces of nature. With this motivation, Professor Salam received the Nobel Prize for physics together with the Americans Steven Weinberg and Sheldon Glashow in 1979. The validity of the theory was ascertained in the following years through experiments carried out at the superprotosynchrotron facility at CERN in Geneva which led to the discovery of the W and Z particles. Salam’s electroweak theory is still the core of the ‘standard model’ of high energy physics.

    The electroweak theory is described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroweak_interaction
    and the broader field of Unified field theory is described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_field_theory

  100. Mariam says:
    November 27th, 2006 10:12 am

    Adnan Siddiqi,

    I hope you’re not dodging my question. Sice you read the book that’s why I asked you where is the objectionable material.

    To All,

    I don’t read anti faith sites.

  101. Adnan Ahmad says:
    November 27th, 2006 10:15 am
  102. November 27th, 2006 12:31 pm

    Mariam,

    I am not dodging you and I have an answer ready on my hard disk but things were gone enough off the track and was not willing to make it further off the topic therefore I asked adil bhai to take my submitted “Reply” to ‘you’ offline. You can contact me off the site. Imagine if someone exposes your “QuranOnly/hadith rejector” upon someone else’s request, how would you feel? therefore no further answer on this topic. Contact me off the site and you would be answered.

  103. MQ says:
    November 27th, 2006 12:51 pm

    Salam is not alone in the Muslim Hall of Fame or rather Hall of Shame. There were many before him who were treated equally badly or even worse.

    Take the example of Al-Kindi (801-873). Abu Yousaf Yaqub Ibne Ishaq al-Kindi was known as the “Philosopher of the Arabsâ€

  104. Adnan Ahmad says:
    November 27th, 2006 1:58 pm

    For the discussion above and a few others taking place on this blog in the context of pakistaniat I think the famous quote from Dickens below is very pertinent. (I know this has been discuused here before albiet in part). Part of me is just happy to see that so many have a clear and, in my opinion, right direction pakistan should be headed toward. A direction that will give ahle safa mardood-e-haram giants the respect they deserved in their real lives.

    It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,
    it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness,
    it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity,
    it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair,
    we had everything before us, we had nothing before us,
    we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way-
    in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on it being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

  105. November 27th, 2006 3:15 pm

    [quote post="431"]I find the religosity that seems to be injected into every discussion very disturbing like many others[/quote]

    Religiosity was already injected in main post in which daily Times article was published and I think you didn’t read the article itself.

    [quote post="431"]The suggestion that all Islamic scientists were persecuted is a[/quote]

    The suggestion is that in Pakistan, every main celebrity/figure is humilated/offended or kicked out by the govt of that time. The dailyTime editor showed his haterd or baisness by condemning Qadir as a source to make Pakistan a ‘Rogue state’ and a ‘Thief’. Fine Qadir’s science knowledge wouldn’t be equal to Salam’s knowledge but after all he was a Pakistani too, wasn’t He? He was forced to come infront of Pakistan and asked to say “Sorry” for the sins which he might not have comitted? or even comitted then Army officials and govt of that time would have been involved? One like it or not, whatever the bomb Pakistan posses today is actually due to Qadeer’s effort and Bhutto’s determinition. Throwing him out by giving excuse that he was a theif is not different than throwing Salam due to a religious issue. In Pakistan, officials of that time use the most hot issue to remove a personality. During Salam, 73 constitution and Zia was in, therefore he used religion to throw his Unwanted man. In Musharraf’s era of dictatorship, Musharraf used the atomic excuse to use against his unwanted man to throw him out since at that time Iran,Libya nuclear case was very hot. I am surprised by seeing the stupidity and ignorance being spread by majority of educated people here by making it a religious issue and declaring it the ONE and ONLY offensive case in pakistan?

    would any of you tell me how many bloody politicians,ex army officials and feudals came out on TV and said ‘I am sorry for sins’? did Gen Niazi came on TV to admit his crime? or you guys trying to preach and brainwash others by hiding facts? I don’t care even everyone here abuse or curse me to impose lies in the name of ‘facts’. I rather ignore it by considering it a child’s tactic to seek attention.

    Why any of you don’t have guts that it was all due to dictatorship of Military people? WHy any of you find a similarity in two cases, one happend in Zia era and other in Musharraf? Atleast I can’t ignore it by saying just a ‘coincidence’.

    What I feel that many of you would be sons and daughters of military people who might be partners in crime in past and now trying to hide their sins by targetting either to Mullah or to Doctor qadeer or to some XYZ. you might fool to some outsider or someone like you by bringing such points but not to many who might not be following your path. If you think that to curse to fictitious people and to me COULD bring a positive change in your own thought that I’m all yours but you guys should have enough guts to be honest with yourself. I know that people with such mentality always hide their own weakness by blaming to others.

  106. November 27th, 2006 7:57 pm

    ok,a bit weird but…I read in cowasjee article last night that:

    He was a member of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, a member of the Scientific Commission of Pakistan and was Chief Scientific Adviser to the president of Pakistan from 1961 (President General Ayub Khan) to 1974 (the era of Prime Minister Democrat Socialist Humanist Zulfikar Ali Bhutto).

    Now can anyone tell me or I need to findout myself who actually had introduced Dr.Qadir to Pakistan govt? which govt was in at that time? Yahya’s or Bhutto? Mr.Salam was part of Atomic comission at that time and in the mean time AQ Khan got in. Both were almost similarly humilated and killed, that is, mental torture by the govts. I might be sounding crazy but there is something fishy. Infact other characters who were involved in Atomic development in Pakistan didn’t have a happy ending. I don’t know..God knows better. *shrug*.

  107. Yahya says:
    November 27th, 2006 8:38 pm
  108. Pakistani says:
    November 27th, 2006 9:23 pm

    [quote comment="12559"]I might be sounding crazy [/quote]

    I agree. Yes you are.

  109. November 28th, 2006 12:04 am

    Pakistani, I could figure out your level of intelligence in the above 5 words reply. Thankyou!

  110. Prophecy says:
    November 28th, 2006 1:19 am

    He was the guru of the cult to whom I used to and am still looking at for answers – this cult is known as Physicists and question is ‘How & When’ and i am waiting for Grand Unification Theory to answer it all for me :-) I was poisoned at very early age by my family to look at science for answers hence i knew Dr Salam very early in my life – junior school. My elder brother bought me a short book on Dr. Salam when i was in class 4 and when i was in 12th grade , i read an article written by Dr. Salam in 125th issue of Ravi (Govt. College Lahore) that my sister gave me – that article changed my perception of Dr. Salam. Before reading that article Dr Salam was physicist working on grand unification theory…but after reading that article i came to know a man who can only be described as ‘crazy about education’ and was seriously worried about poor situation in Pakistan and Islamic world. Hardworking and passinoate about educating pakistanies – that is what i was able to get out of that article and latter i read an article on Dr. S on his death that in his home almost all of the wall space was eaten up by shelves housing books – even in bath rooms. This vision is reinforced by the preface to Dr Hood Bhai’s book ‘Islam and Science’ that he wrote in 1990 – both the book and this preface makes a wonderful reading.

    Over years i have came across several other articles and references to his work besides physics, his efforts to bring scientific revolution back to Islamic world and how it failed – Islamic Center of Science (or Islamic science society) or ICTP or higher salary for scientist in Pakistan all failed because as a society we have no respect for science (or education).

    What happened to ICTP – Dr. S wanted it in Pakistan , got approval from UNICEF and what happened after that is a mystery. Multiple stories – as per one of them Pakistani Finance Minster refused to finance it saying “Salam wants a vacation Ranch for his fellow scientists”. But last month i was reading auto biography of Ahmed Bashir (Dil Bhatkay Ga) – who was working with Qudrat Ullah Shahab (chief secretary govt of Pakistan at that time) and asked him about it.. Shahab’s response was, if we had approved this center we would have to accept Israeli students – sounded stupid to Ahmed so he went on investigation (he was working in Islamabad secretariat at that time) and found out that Uncle Sam (US consulate in Islamabad) had asked govt of Pakistan that this center should never get established in Pakistan…

    It might be harsh but it is very obvious from most comments on this article that the commentators have not spend even few hours researching life and work of Dr. Salam – this simply tells me a bitter truth once again – “how important ‘Science/Education’ is for us” – Reema or Noor Jahan would be known to more people than who know Dr Salman or Dr Usmani or Dr Rafi Chudary. Science is not our priority so scientists don’t get any attention or respect – sadly Muslims are the nation for whom the very first revelation is “Read…Iqra” yet we, just like Christian Church did and are doing everything to eliminate scientific thinking from our society. On top of all that Dr Salam is a Ahemdi in Pakistan – come on, he is lucky that they have not removed his name as that sounds Muslim as well…

  111. YLH says:
    November 28th, 2006 2:28 pm

    In 1944, at Srinagar some people tried to press Quaid-e-Azam M.A. Jinnah to make a statement about Ahmadis. Jinnah was absolutely furious. “Who am I to declare those who declare themselves Muslims, non-Muslims?” He went on to describe the whole anti-Ahmaddiya sentiment as nothing less than a conspiracy against Islam itself.

    Dr. Abdul Salam was the foot soldier of Jinnah’s Pakistan. He was indeed “Quaidiani” … the follower of Quaid-e-Azam. Ahmadis gave their heart and soul to Pakistan and they’ve been treated like dirt by those bigots who had nothing but malice and hatred for Pakistan.

    The people who agitated in 1974 were the same people who had called Jinnah Kafir-e-Azam in 1940s and called Pakistan Kafir-e-Azam. These bigots are the enemies of Pakistan, Muslims and Islam.

    The GOVT. of Pakistan must take positive steps to undo the bigoted 2nd Amendment to the constitution which is the slap on the face of every decent Pakistani who believes in Jinnah and Pakistan.

  112. az says:
    November 28th, 2006 3:13 pm

    [quote comment="11603"][quote post="431"]Regarding the mullahs who erased the word Muslim from his tombstone[/quote]

    No doubt I respect him as a good scientist but he was not a muslim and it was really shame things happened with him in his home country but fact of the matter is that Qadyanis are not muslims . Don’t bring your polluted school of thought here and misguide to others. Qadyanis were declared non-muslims for certain reasons. If qadyanis were so eager to label themselves as *muslims* then they didn’t need to invent a seprate religion then whine to justify as a muslim religion. Labelling as “Ahmadis” doesn’t change facts. Better make a read of books written by mirza ghulam then troll here.

    Back to topic, I just wonder that whether abdul salam was/is the only pakistani scientist who did something which was accepted for nobel prize? Doesn’t pakistani produce other scientists? wht about late chemistry scientist Saleemuz Zaman? what about others?[/quote]

    specially this
    [quote]If qadyanis were so eager to label themselves as *muslims* then they didn’t need to invent a seprate religion then whine to justify as a muslim religion.?[/quote]

    that’s exactly what I wanted to say… :)

  113. KTN says:
    November 28th, 2006 9:25 pm

    Imagine if responses to threads actually involved a discussion of the topic at hand.

    Revolutionary concept, I know.

  114. Shoaib Shafique says:
    November 29th, 2006 4:26 am

    [quote comment="12410"][quote comment="12405"][quote comment="12093"]For you MARIAM if you still don’t find any thing objectionable in Qadyanies.

    http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/

    I know they will surely say it is a false Propaganda against them. But just ask any of the Qadayani How Did There First GREAT SUPREME Leader died[/quote]

    I want to ask the same question from Asma.[/quote]

    shoaib shafique, I am not clear what your questions is? Are you saying that you have objection to someone else’s beliefs? Is this something new? Or are you objection to someone’s First GREAT SUPREME Leader? This is not new either. Many non-Muslims say all sort of things regarding holy prophet such as marrying an underage girl or that he promoted terrorism? Should we take it seriously, or allow others to harass us on every street corner of this world or to diminish our rights irrespective of how strongly they believe what they believe?

    Let’s be blunt. A vast majority of world population around 5 billion, considers holy prophet to be an impostor prophet and Islam a false religion and many believe Islam to be a religion that spreads terrorism. So what? They believe what they believe and we believe what we believe as long as everyone stays in their boundaries.

    If however you wish to throw dirt on others then please remember that others have the same right to throw dirt on you. When it happens please don’t cry blasphemy as you yourself have started it.

    I would appreciate if you could clarify the question?[/quote]

    The question is to have you read for the articles that are been uploaded on that side, i hope my question is much clear now

  115. Afaq says:
    December 2nd, 2006 5:52 am

    This is a great essay and a sad discussion. Shows that we have become incapable of sober conversation.

  116. November 29th, 2006 4:57 am

    Jinnah might be a god or a prophet for seculars but not for muslims.

    [quote post="431"]who believes in Jinnah and Pakistan.[/quote]

    Jinnah says:

    The Prophet of Islam (PBUH) was a great teacher. He was a great lawgiver. He was a great statesman and he was a great sovereign who ruled. The life of the Prophet (PBUH) was simple according to those times. He was successful in everything that he put his hand to from as a businessman to as a ruler. The Prophet (PBUH) was the greatest man that the world had ever seen. Thirteen hundred years ago he laid the foundations of democracy(Prophet’s birthday at the Karachi Bar Association on 25th January 1948)


    It is my belief that our salvation lies in following the golden rules of conduct set for us by our great lawgiver, the Prophet of Islam. Let us lay the foundations of our democracy on the basis of true Islamic ideals and principles

    (Civil, Naval, Military and Air Force Officers at Khaliqdina Hall Karachi on 11th October 1947 )

    Sadly, Jinnah was misunderstood,cursed and damned by both fanatic secular lefts and right wing psuedo religious conservatives who even labelled Jinnah according to their own *religion* and tried to inject their poisonous and sick theories by associating with Jinnah.

    Both cults cursed jinnah either by calling him a ‘kafir-e-azam’ or a ‘secular preacher’ while in reality Jinnah was far far superior and well learned about the religion and democracy than the preachers of both cults.

    I can just pray and hope that Pakistan and Pakistanis getrid of both fanatic cults asap so that Pakistanis who are being opressed by both extreeme cults take breathe in fresh air where they can lead life according to their own will rather by following a path proposed by secularists and religious zeolots by declaring as “The Right Path”.

  117. Ghani says:
    December 3rd, 2006 5:01 pm

    I am not an expert so I may be worng, but I thought that Dr. Salam was a theoretical physicist which means that had the politics been different andhad we been more supportive he could have done his research IN Pakistan. His research was not lab related. Is that correct?

  118. November 29th, 2006 5:04 am

    Since this topic has become a discussion about Islam Science and faith, it reminds one of the shair of Iqbal.


    KAFIR KI YEH PEHCHAN KAY AAFAQUE MAY GUM HAY
    MOMIN KI YE PEHCHAN KAY GUM USMAY HAY AFAAQ

  119. Haider says:
    November 29th, 2006 5:08 am

    [quote comment="11717"][quote comment="11705"]mullahs had caused a huge riot in lahore over the ahmedi issue in early 50′s but the government stood firm against them. [/quote]

    But this was not without its consequences. The riot caused the first marshal law in Pakistan which gave the first taste of power to the army even if it was done with the good intention of maintaining peace. So thank you Mullahs for brining the “jin” of military out in the first place.[/quote]

    Dear it seems like U R quite ignorant of history. We had to tolerat Ayub Khan in 1965 and that was when Army got the taste of Governance. Am I not right…

  120. Aqeel Asad says:
    December 7th, 2006 1:20 am

    With respectfulness to everyone. Seems like all have said what they wanted to. But maybe some still want to pick up fights. Why not do that elsewhere and leave doctor sahib out of it.

  121. Haider says:
    November 29th, 2006 5:31 am

    [quote comment="12495"]Mariam,

    I am not dodging you and I have an answer ready on my hard disk but things were gone enough off the track and was not willing to make it further off the topic therefore I asked adil bhai to take my submitted “Reply” to ‘you’ offline. You can contact me off the site. Imagine if someone exposes your “QuranOnly/hadith rejector” upon someone else’s request, how would you feel? therefore no further answer on this topic. Contact me off the site and you would be answered.[/quote]
    Would U plz expose it for us or at least for me Personally out of site…

  122. Haider says:
    November 29th, 2006 5:49 am

    The last thing that I have regarding the original discussion.
    Our people disgraced and humiliated AS,now let us pay a tribute to the Great Pakistani Scientist and the Only Pakistani winning a Nobel Prize.He is gone now and we are repenting on what we did to him and our forefathers did not do any thing when AS was being disgraced.

    Perhaps in the future our descendants might be repenting that our forefathers did not do any thing when AQ was being disgraced and humiliated!!!
    Think on it!

    Remember and tribute the one who is not with us now. BUT DON’T FORGET THE ONE WHO IS STILL ALIVE!

  123. abc says:
    November 29th, 2006 7:35 am

    Nice discussion

  124. KTN says:
    November 29th, 2006 2:07 pm

    [quote comment="12568"][quote comment="12559"]I might be sounding crazy [/quote]

    I agree. Yes you are.[/quote]
    [quote comment="12599"]Pakistani, I could figure out your level of intelligence in the above 5 words reply. Thankyou![/quote]

    One’s level of intelligence is not confined to the number of words he/she uses. Contrary, writing endless paragraphs that repeat the same Subjective Perception (key words here) over and over does not enhance an IQ, nor does it make the commenter sound even remotely learned.

    Since we’re clearly not heading back to the initial direction of the thread, I thought I’d take my shot at this too.

  125. AKHTAR SOOMRO says:
    November 29th, 2006 2:16 pm

    GREAT PEOPLE ALWAYS REMAIN GREAT…. NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION COLOR CAST….

  126. KTN says:
    November 29th, 2006 2:22 pm

    [quote comment="12475"] People who taught me included Jews, Christians and Hindus, and Muslims during early education. I am thankfull to all for I am what they imparted to me – knowledge, wisdom, and character.
    [/quote]

    Couldn’t have said it better myself. Imagine all the mounting tensions erupting on a global scale that we could otherwise eliminate if each one of us adopted this ideology alone.

  127. Yahya says:
    November 29th, 2006 9:18 pm
  128. Yahya says:
    November 29th, 2006 9:21 pm

    The Theoretical Physics Group at Quaid-e-Azam University (by Dr Faheem); (http://sse.lums.edu.pk/documents/opednewsletter2005Jun.pdf)

  129. YLH says:
    December 1st, 2006 2:30 am

    The way some people go into a knee jerk reaction when nothing of “secularism” (a term they don’t understand) was mentioned per se is amazing. What I mentioned in my previous post was simply that Ahmadis and “Quaidianis” were in the frontlines of the Pakistan Movement… while those who tormented them in Pakistan were actually Pakistan haters.

    Jinnah believed in the tolerance and pluralism which was the cornerstone of Islamic civilisation for 14 centuries. His ideal was of modern democratic state, where a person’s faith was a matter of conscience and where there would be complete religious freedom and tolerance. Whether this ideal is secular or Islamic is besides the point. The point here is that the treatment meted out to Ahmadis in Pakistan is contrary to all human (Islamic and indeed secular) principles of equality, fraternity and justice that were to be the cornerstones of Pakistan and were the cornerstones of true Islam (not the mullah version this fellow above seems to be peddaling above.

    Anyone who professes to be a Muslim is a Muslim. End of story.

  130. YLH says:
    December 1st, 2006 2:36 am

    PS: Not all secularists are leftists or liberals either… nor are all leftists and liberals secularists.

    But then that would require a brain to decipher.

  131. December 1st, 2006 5:30 am

    What jinnah believed is clearly written in books and left wing extreemists laballed him as a ‘secularist state supporter’. Noone else need to give his own interpetition as there is nothing written between lines. A shair is coming in my mind after enjoying your reaction.


    dekh to, dil ke jaan se uthta hai
    ye dhuan sa kahan se uthta hai

    [quote post="431"]Anyone who professes to be a Muslim is a Muslim. End of story[/quote]

    Again,

    Suchai Chupti nahi Banwat k Asooloun sey
    Khushboo Atee nahi Khaghaz k phooloun sey

    But since God didn’t give ability to everyone to comprehend every thing, as it was said:

    [quote post="431"]But then that would require a brain to decipher.[/quote]

    :D

  132. Prophecy says:
    December 1st, 2006 1:56 pm

    [quote comment="13129"]What jinnah believed is clearly written in books and left wing extreemists laballed him as a ‘secularist state supporter’.
    :D[/quote]

    First, as you believe books to be true I will expect you to stick to this position in all your arguments.

    A look at the first cabinet that he picked can help one in this argument – his vision was very clear and we can see that in action as well.

    “[what I believe] Jinnah believed is clearly [for me] written in books [ i have or I like or I declare to be true or I hand picked to support my vision]”

    One major quality of Manto’s work is that he simply tells the story and lets his reader interpret it – looks like he believed that every one is as intelligent as himself and equally capable

  133. Ismail says:
    December 2nd, 2006 11:12 am

    I want to thank the owners of this site to have at least raised their voice and given credit to this great man. That is the place to start. In some ways I do not even mind the disucssion. Let us disucss these things and come to our own conclusions. Discussion is better than silence.

  134. Mariam says:
    December 1st, 2006 7:56 pm

    Adnan,

    [quote post="431"]I am not dodging you and I have an answer ready on my hard disk but things were gone enough off the track and was not willing to make it further off the topic therefore I asked adil bhai to take my submitted “Replyâ€

  135. December 2nd, 2006 2:02 am

    [quote post="431"]as you believe books to be true I will expect you to stick to this position in all your arguments.[/quote]

    By books I don’t mean I agree with what Akbar S AHmad said or what Ali raza or Rizwan Ahmad saw. His speeches are written in history books in plain words and there is no need of interpitition of someone else to understand his mindset.

    [quote post="431"]You can publish your theories at your webspace since you called Dr. Abdus Salam Non Muslim you better support your allegations with proof[/quote]

    I already have a url, contact me off the site so I gave you URL. Even if you had capability to comprehend the TITLE of the link you mentioned before then you shouldn’t have come to me.

    [quote post="431"]Hmm where does this come from if you are talking to some sane minds then maybe you’re able to refrain from calling Ahmedis Non Muslims.[/quote]

    I have infinite time more cooler and sane mind than you who give excuses for everything. As I said earlier that i am least intrested to know what some other belives and I am even least bothered if some jew declares himself a Muslim. Everything is available to figureout. If someone keeps declaring myself a ‘civil engineer’ while he doesn’t even know about it then everyone would consider him insane rather a normal person but it all depends that whether a person has ability to figure out between wrong and right.

    Similary the lame reason that anyone who professes Islam knowledge is a ‘Muslim’ is baseless. A Jewish Rabbi might have more knowlege about Koran,hadith and other thing but He can’t be declared a Muslim anyway. Only a *retard* would call him a muslim..

    [quote post="431"]how all of them were against the creation of Pakistan and still those Besharam migrated her[/quote]

    I often hear this argument by liberal extreemist and it forces me to think that whether leftists wanted to get a seprate state so that they can preach their pathetic liberalism and secularism by polluting Islam? As I said, there is no different between extreemists of both cabals. Both wanted to use this state for their own filthy activities. In Zia era right wing extreemists polluted the things and religon and now left wing extreemists are active to pollute things and relgion in Musharraf era. In past those right extreemists call themselves ‘moderate’ like lefts wing extreemists call themselves moderate. Funny bit I must say.

    [quote post="431"]Good thing their Islamic knowledge is exposed in this Hudood controversy may people able to see[/quote]

    Yes people unlike left extreemists are able to read Quran and Sunnah and offcourse have access to the source of law itself to understand how much *protection* it provides. Whoever who came up to favor new law and reject failed to give any solid argument. Umera tried to convince but bad luck for her that her own given sources was used to refute her.

    [quote post="431"]of course Sunni (which I am) sect.[/quote]

    I remember on other site[KMB] you said tht you don’t believe in “hadiths” and call them fabricated which is against “Sunni” belief who believes in both Quran and Sunnah- “Sunni” is derived from Sunnah and I thnk you were not aware of this. ;) but as I said, one declares himself a sunni or shia, he or she can fool to humans but not to Allah.That’s it!

    [quote post="431"]Please delete my last comment.[/quote]


    Yarou mujhe Maaf rakho, Mey Nashay Mey houn

    ;)

  136. December 2nd, 2006 2:11 am

    [quote post="431"]Ahmedis (not Qadiayani that’s whole different belief) [/quote]

    Don’t ever say this to any qadyani, boht sunaye ga tumhey. Save me[us] for your baseless claims please! Read ,Read and just read the source books!

  137. December 2nd, 2006 3:11 am

    And hence I would say that true democracy can never be created in Pakistan unless we heave clear distinction and sepration between state and religion.

    The great Quaid, himself, stressed upon this in his inaugral address to the people of Pakistan and declared that the state has no reason to interfere in people’s religious practices. If only the man would have lived few years and delivered a working constitution.

    One after another, we used Islam and religion for political reasons and made a mockery out of our constitution. Sadly, it is near impossible to undo what has been done. You can see this from a simple amendment in shape of Women’s Rights Bills and the controversy it created.

  138. TURAB says:
    December 2nd, 2006 4:59 am

    I support seperation of Mosque and state all the way. People don’t have the faith to keep the two together

  139. December 2nd, 2006 7:29 am

    [quote post="431"]And hence I would say that true democracy can never be created in Pakistan unless we heave clear distinction and sepration between state and religion[/quote]

    Abrar, Since I have got chance to read you on your site and enjoy it most of the time. I would request you to put some weight on your argument that laws made by men don’t have any drop of a ‘religion’. US is promoted as a country where church and state are seprate so is Singapore. Everyone knows what kinda mentality exist in US govt. The ‘secular’ Singapore couldn’t even getrid the influence of ancient hindu raj and their city names has hindu influence. Heck, even *secular* states couldn’t getrid of the weekend holidays Saturday and Sunday which are holy days in Jewish and Christian religion. It’s pretty easy to just say that there is need of seprate of state and reliigon but have no idea about it and it’s practical implementation. Everyone knows what kinda *democracy* is in USoA. The most funniest bit I just experienced is equating the status of a Mosque and a Church.

  140. Yahya says:
    December 2nd, 2006 7:28 pm
  141. Sam says:
    December 3rd, 2006 12:09 am

    Let’s get the nomenclature right first. It is AHMADI, NOT QADIANI. QADIANI is a a pejorative term for Ahmadis.

    With or without Pakistan’s recognition of Dr. Salam, he remains a great role model to South Asian youth to engage in scientific research and progress. And he has been given the recognition that he deserves throughout the world and mention in textbooks right after mention of Einstein’s Unified field theory. Dr. Salam’s research has contributed to the realization of Einstein’s dream of unifying all forces. Dr. Salam’s devout religious and spiritual beliefs and his desire to mesh them with scientific thought also provide inspiration to many who have been force-fed the (highly Western) notion that science and religion are two separate entities and that they cannot co-exist. How refreshing it was to see a scientist who strongly and sincerely disagreed. He was a ground-breaking scientist, and a devout Ahmadi-Muslim.

  142. KTN says:
    December 4th, 2006 12:45 am

    [quote comment="12832"]I am not an expert so I may be worng, but I thought that Dr. Salam was a theoretical physicist which means that had the politics been different andhad we been more supportive he could have done his research IN Pakistan. His research was not lab related. Is that correct?[/quote]

    I believe that is correct. Sucks to be us eh.

  143. Mard-i-Haq says:
    December 30th, 2006 5:19 pm

    Kareem Jindani and Ibrahim. Aap douno ko kis nay khuda-i-zuljalal bana diya hai, jey aap faisla kar rahey hain kay koun musalmaan hai aur koun nahi? Trying to become God is called shirq. I am sure Allah can decide better than both of you who is and who is not a real Muslim. Maybe we should all concentrate on trying to become better people ourselves instead of acting like we are God and passing out these fatwas!!!

  144. Akif Nizam says:
    December 4th, 2006 3:03 pm

    Dr. Salam’s treatment by Pakistan is a matter of national shame. I don’t think that one muslim should be able to deny another from calling himself muslim, let alone a state which perpetuates such a crime.

  145. Mariam says:
    December 4th, 2006 11:56 pm

    Adnan,

    If you do not have a valid reply to my inquiry then please do not change the subject. In what authority you are keep judging others faith? In my dictionary it accounts for harassment.

    P.S. If you have some issues with my comments at other sites then do address it there. I’m not alone in saying Happy Diwali to our Hindu friends.

  146. Mariam says:
    December 5th, 2006 12:01 am

    BTW are you calling these people Hadith rejector too :D.

  147. December 5th, 2006 12:29 am

    Mariam, trolling is not a valid excuse for rejecting things. I clearly said that site owner DOESNOT want me to give any such REFERENCES[whether a web link or the content itself]on this Thread. If you were really intrested to get the things, you knew the way to reach me but since trolling is your old habbit which you do on other sites as well so I am not surprised. I am least bothered of your babbling as your rants can’t change the facts. such rants by you are not credible and worthy enough to be discussed.

    [quote post="431"]BTW are you calling these people Hadith rejector too[/quote]

    as I said, trolling doesn’t sound good who claim to “I know everything and can comprehend everything”. You know well I was referring you as a member of hadith rejector or “QuranOnly” cult who re definately not Sunnis. I don’t understand why you guys try to hide your own beliefs on someone else, like labelling ahmadis for qadyanism and sunnis for “HadithRejectors”. Why do people follow a belief which they make them embarssed too and then they hide it by labelling it something else.:S

  148. KTN says:
    December 5th, 2006 1:40 am

    I don’t understand why you guys try to hide your own beliefs on someone else, like labelling ahmadis for qadyanism and sunnis for “HadithRejectors”. Why do people follow a belief which they make them embarssed too and then they hide it by labelling it something else.:S[/quote]

    Give it a rest already dude. You’re posts are wasting space and you’ve failed to prove any of your “points.” End of Discussion. Back to the great Pakistani-Muslim Nobel Laureate Dr. Salam.

  149. Mariam says:
    December 5th, 2006 2:11 am

    OK, KTN I let it go.

    BTW, every now and then I meet someone here in the US who is benefited by Dr. Abdus Salam’s Institute. I myself am a Physics graduate and my Alma matar always gave him respect which he deserves. That’s all matter isn’t it.

  150. Manz says:
    December 5th, 2006 4:49 am

    It seems crazy to turn this discussion in a MUNAZARA of the fanatics. Dr. Salam was great by virtue of his genious and we have to admit it and pay our overdue homage to the man. We have nothing to do his faith. If i curse Dr. Salam because he was a Ahmadi in this forum but who knows about mine which is inherent in the depths of unconscious. A line comes to my mind,

    Pehla Pathar woh maray, jis nay koi Gunnah na kia hoo.

    We all should see ourselves in this mirror that how perfect is our faith rather to throw mud over others.

  151. December 5th, 2006 6:20 am

    KTN, you don’t need to standup and give your judgement as a “referee” that i got failed or passed so save your verdict for someone else,neither I am concerned about it my failure or sucess.Yes things gone enough beyond the topic and I personally not willing to “fulfill” mariam’s wish on “this” space but seems it was like rocket science for her.

  152. KTN says:
    December 5th, 2006 2:30 pm

    [quote comment="14126"]OK, KTN I let it go.

    BTW, every now and then I meet someone here in the US who is benefited by Dr. Abdus Salam’s Institute. I myself am a Physics graduate and my Alma matar always gave him respect which he deserves. That’s all matter isn’t it.[/quote]

    No dear, I was not referring to you. But I think i did strike a raw nerve with the one who I WAS pointing fingers at. I soo enjoy doing that :o)

    And Adnan Sahib, just as you have been doing since the minute you began posting, I will also say whatever ramble comes to my mind. So there……I’m a kindergartenish mood :)

    and another YAYYY to Dr. Salam just to acknolwedge the point of the threa one more time.

  153. TURAB says:
    December 6th, 2006 9:34 pm

    I am sure Dr. Abdus Salaam is more of a momin (better than Muslim) than most of us here..

  154. Yahya says:
    December 7th, 2006 1:48 am

    I am surprised this picture is not included in article; http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Salam_Nobel.jpeg (Salam receiving noble prize).

  155. Mast Qalandar says:
    December 7th, 2006 7:59 am

    I agree with Aqeel Asad.

    The discussion on Salam, some parts of it, reminds me of traveling on National Highway in Pakistan. There are all sorts of rough and sometime outright mad drivers driving those crazy buses and trucks. Some would tailgate you at high speeds and keep flashing their headlights to get you out of the way or get you into a road rage; others would continuously honk at you; some, in order to overtake, would try to push you off the road on to the shoulders. And when they do manage to overtake, they would fly past you honking, grinning and mouthing words that cannot be heard. In this total bedlam occasionally, very occasionally, you come across a bus traveling merrily at a steady speed, keeping to its lane, not honking, not getting into any road rage. On the back of the bus is written “Qismat hamaray saath hai, jalnay walay jala karaiNâ€

  156. Formerly Yahya says:
    December 9th, 2006 3:00 pm

    Zahida HIna (from Daily Express Dec 3/06); (http://www.infovis.biz/Zahida_Hina_on_Abdus_Salam.gif)

  157. Wadood Chaudhary says:
    December 17th, 2006 9:10 pm

    Another aspect of Dr. Salam’s personality was his command over language and love for poetry and literature. Anyone who has read his books and articles especially on the history of science in Islamic countries would testify to his command over language.
    Also, he was a big fan of Iqbal. In 1967 he gave a series of lectures on Iqbal on Radio Pakistan.

  158. December 19th, 2006 12:41 am

    Back in 1996 I remember discussing a song” son of the soil” when FDM http://www.fun-da-mental.co.uk
    were busy filming in northern areas of pakistan and Dr Salam Body was flown into pakistan for a”unofficial” burial, there was a complete media blackout on news of funeral, few students from quaid azam university islamabad rebelled and took university buses to jang “rabwa’ where ahmidi religion is based ,only to be beaten by police and then embarrased by ahmidi clerics who did not let them say prayers because they were “non Ahmidi” muslims.

  159. ABDUL JABBAR KHAN says:
    December 20th, 2006 7:08 pm

    DR. SALAM is and was the greatest soul produced by Greater Pakistan. We must accept him and his deeds as ours. He was a man of light, courage, and above all a Pakistani. We must also create an Educational Institution is his name.

    Long Live Pakistan.

    ABDUL J KHAN

  160. bilal says:
    December 29th, 2006 7:40 am

    Not only in Salams life but also after his death Pakistan is ignoring the great Hero, i am in Rabwah and yesterday i found oppurtunity to visit the grave of Salam and i felt great sorrow seeing that the grave stone of Salam is altered and the Word “MUSLIM scientist” is been hidden with the help of paint… Shame Shame Musharraf, the Mullan is still controlling the State and the government is still Hijacked by Mullan.. SHAME SHAME

  161. MU says:
    December 29th, 2006 8:12 am

    Bilal any chance you can post pic of his grave stone here for record?

    Thanks

  162. Karim Jindani says:
    December 30th, 2006 4:31 pm

    To all the Mullahs and Fundos out there….

    Dr Abdus Salam was not a Muslim… that’s what you wanted to hear.. Happy..

    He was far far greater human being and more bigger than your narrow minded definition of Muslim.

  163. Ibrahim says:
    December 30th, 2006 4:42 pm

    [quote post="431"]To all the Mullahs and Fundos out there[/quote]
    Way to go! Nice way to address people who don’t agree with your view. And, you call yourself “civilized” and literate.
    [quote post="431"] Abdus Salam was not a Muslim… that’s what you wanted to hear.. Happy..[/quote]
    Thanks, I thought you’ll never come around!!

  164. Malik says:
    January 1st, 2007 9:39 pm

    Salam was in fact truest of Muslims. His reverence for truth, his humility, and his love of learning (allqualities of ideal an Muslims) should be an inspiration to all Pakistanis. These were qualites admired by the Prophet and repeatedly mentioned in the Quran. Rising from humble origins, he was able to re-shape physics. Every modern physics text book mentions him and his contributions. You cannot take a basic course in physics across the world without knowing about him. So why the hatred towards him? This is the result of perversion of religion in Pakistan. No one has a right to decide who is a Muslim and who is not. Also no one has a right to move an entire society back to pre-Islamic state of jaliyah. Can anyone answer where the next Salam will come from in Pakistan?

  165. Ibrahim says:
    January 1st, 2007 11:00 pm

    Salamalikum,
    [quote post="431"]No one has a right to decide who is a Muslim and who is not[/quote]
    Agreed. But, what’s a fact and cannot be denied is that Qadiyani does not equal Muslim. If you’re unsure about this, then please read up on it. Now, Dr. Salam was Qadiyani and so people are just stating the fact that he wasn’t a Muslim.

    Plus, why is it such a problem if he wasn’t a Muslim? That’s what most people on this blog preach: Being Pakistani is first and other things second. Then, why can’t you guys, using your own standard, be ok with the fact about Dr. Salam. But, no! The truth is that most people are not really concerned about Pakistaniyat; rather, most want to redefine Islam while creating “Pakistaniyat”. Otherwise, you should’ve said ‘heck with what he was as long as he was a Pakistani’. No, rather, there was an opportunity to modify/object to conservative/traditional Islamic way and denounce “old-school” Islamic thinking, and that’s what most have done.

  166. January 2nd, 2007 1:57 am

    hehe, this thread is still acitve :D

    [quote post="431"]He was far far greater human being and more bigger than your narrow minded definition of Muslim.[/quote]

    you just exibitted your own narrow mindness by declaring every one as a “Mullah”. Thankyou!

    [quote post="431"]koun musalmaan hai aur koun nahi? Trying to become God is called shirq.[/quote]

    Mian aur tumhe ye kis ne haq dia k tum Ibrahim or kisi aur ko MUSHRIK therao? watch your own words before you come out to preach others.

  167. turab says:
    January 2nd, 2007 2:54 am

    ^^^^ sad to see some people just really happy to make a mockery out of the tribute for the great scientist and person.

  168. Usman says:
    January 3rd, 2007 8:35 pm

    The fate of this thread resembles outcome of many good things in Pakistan that began with the best of intentions and sincere efforts, including Pakistan’s own creation. Religious fanatics come around and destroy it for everyone. Certainly a case for keeping religious fanatics away from the affairs of the state if not altogether away from the state.

  169. Malik says:
    January 4th, 2007 8:59 am

    Ibrahim and Adnan:

    Your pre-islamic thinking is not helping your cause. Whether corrupt regimes, which you seem to admire, decide who is a muslim and who is not is irrelevant. You are both bigots who have been brainwashed by the current lousy educational system in Pakistan!! You should get out and read more.

    Salam was an observant Ahamadi whose Muslim faith had a great deal to with his science and how he viewed the universe. This is an important point since he always tried to seek a consilience between what God had created,the Universe, and the constants in physics and that everything is made up of sub-atomic particles.

  170. Ibrahim says:
    January 4th, 2007 6:06 pm

    Salamalikum,
    [quote post="431"]You are both bigots [/quote]
    Malik: If I wasn’t afraid of turning this discussion into personal attacks, I would have told you want I really thought about your comment because I’m dying to bestow upon you some of my own titles. If you can only call names, please don’t comment because you add no value to the discussion. Maybe you need to read Adnan’s or my comments more to find out who is well read and who’s not. Don’t make this an issue of us against Adnan or Ibrahim.
    [quote post="431"]You should get out and read more.[/quote]
    If anything, you are brianwashed and please don’t place your inferiority complex on us. Ok?
    [quote post="431"]Ahamadi whose Muslim faith[/quote]
    Major contradiction! Ahamadis are called such because they aren’t Muslims. And, thank you for your short course on particle physics.

  171. Mohammed says:
    January 4th, 2007 11:07 pm

    Ahamadis are called such because they aren’t Muslims.

    So, by this logic Sunnis are called such because they aren’t Muslims, and Shias are called such because they aren’t Muslims, and Wahabis are called such because they aren’t Muslims, and Deobandis are called such because they aren’t Muslims, and Naqshbandis are called such because they aren’t Muslims…

    I guess now that you have declared everyone else non-Muslim you must be the last Muslim standing. Congratulations!

    It is amazing that ours may be the only religion in the world where its current followers are not only suspicious of people of other faiths, but also of those of their own faith. We shun not only those who do not consider themselves Muslims, but also those who do.

  172. Malik says:
    January 4th, 2007 11:10 pm

    Ibrahim: Pray tell us what right do you have to say whether anyone is a Muslim or not.  In the end people like you lose because you spend all your days putting people on lists (‘he is a muslim, he is not a muslim, etc etc”).

  173. Ibrahim says:
    January 4th, 2007 11:26 pm

    Salamalikum,
    [quote post="431"]So, by this logic Sunnis are called such because they aren’t Muslims, and Shias are called such because they aren’t Muslims, and Wahabis are called such because they aren’t Muslims, and Deobandis are called such because they aren’t Muslims, and Naqshbandis are called such because they aren’t Muslims…
    I guess now that you have declared everyone else non-Muslim you must be the last Muslim standing. Congratulations!
    It is amazing that ours may be the only religion in the world where its current followers are not only suspicious of people of other faiths, but also of those of their own faith. We shun not only those who do not consider themselves Muslims, but also those who do. [/quote]
    What a bogus argument? Why make a comment for just the sake of a comment? All the names you’ve mentioned are sects and Ahmadi is NOT a sect. Read books, refutation on Qadiyaniat, and the constitution of Pak. if that’s what you love. If you still don’t understand, let me know and I’ll get a kid to tell you what are the two basic criteria that makes a Muslim, and how Qadiyaniat breaks one of the two.

  174. Abdullah says:
    January 6th, 2007 7:15 pm

    so glad to see that there are so many people here who have taken it upon themselves to keep the iimaan of  the rest of us mahfooz. They are truly doing God’s work. Becoming judge and jury on who else is or is not a good Muslim. Thank you all you Super-Muslims. You will save our souls. Now, if only you could spend half as much time practicing your own religion as you do on being religious police for everyone else, maybe you would save your own soul’s too!

  175. Sohail Khan says:
    January 7th, 2007 11:15 am

    I love this website. But not where this thread has gone.

    I want to make a different point. I think we need to honor our intellectuals. Name roads, buildings, schools, etc. for them. Create scholarships in their name. Make them role models that young people look up to.

    Apart from Dr. Salam, two other Pakistanis were in serious running for Nobel awards at different points – Dr. Saleem uzzaman Siddique and Dr. Mahbub ul Haq. Lets honor them too. The point is that we have to have intellectual role models too. Iqbal, Faiz, and who else?

  176. MU says:
    January 20th, 2007 3:11 pm

    GCU RECEIVES ORIGINAL NOBEL PRIZE CERTIFICATE OF DR. SALAM

    (http://www.gcu.edu.pk/Library/NewsEvents.htm#GCU RECEIVES ORIGINAL NOBEL PRIZE CERTIFICATE OF DR. SALAM)

  177. MU says:
    January 23rd, 2007 7:39 pm

    New School of Science in Pakistan Will include an Abdus Salam Chair…

    http://news.ictp.it/index.php?p=215

  178. MU says:
    January 24th, 2007 7:07 am

    Somewhat relevant.

    Government College Kay Dewanay Log

    http://www.jang-group.com/jang/jan2007-daily/24-01-2007/col8.htm

  179. Farhan (germany) says:
    January 28th, 2007 7:08 am

    after reading many comments i get tears in my eyes …

    so many countries offer their citizenship to him, he was respected by the whole world & so on, but it`s a shame for pakistan, that even today there are many people wo charakterised people first by their religion, and
    AFTER that by there work…

    isnt it in the hand of allah the almighty, to punish people who are going to the wrong direction??? which authority does the pakistani government has, do declare a movement as non muslim? and also the “islamic-league”? these are political instituions, which gave them these rights? i mean, saudi arabia allows also the USA to use their bases for attacks in iraq… isnt it just policey?!

    why dont we respet pakistanis, who are non-muslims? was this the idea of pakistan, laid by qaid e azam? just want to remember you that the first foreign minister of pakistan was also a “non-muslim” as many of u called these ahamdis. in the fist way, they are HUMAN being, after that PAKISTANI …. and faith is a personal thing between man/women and allah…. please dont mix religion with politics

  180. TURAB says:
    February 4th, 2007 1:13 am

    Umeed pe dunya qaim hai. Salam Day observed through out Pakistan’s post secondary insts.
    read it here http://www.dawn.com/2007/02/04/local14.htm

  181. YLH says:
    February 6th, 2007 10:38 am

    Ahmadis Civil Rights Petition:

    http://www.petitiononline.com/Greywolf/petition.html

    Brand new… so sign away.

  182. MU says:
    February 6th, 2007 4:29 pm

    Several photos of Salam with prominent scientists; (here) including one with J. Robert Oppenheimer the creator of atom bomb. I wonder what they talked about.

  183. Shaukat says:
    February 8th, 2007 7:17 am

    I am glad you are writing about Prof. Salam. It is a pity so many others do not honor him as they should.

  184. svend says:
    February 6th, 2007 10:02 pm

    Kudos on a brave and important post.

    “Oh you who believe, stand up firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even if it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be against rich or poor; for God can best protect both. Do not follow any passion, lest you not be just. And if you distort or decline to do justice, verily God is well-acquainted with all that you doâ€

  185. MU says:
    February 6th, 2007 11:48 pm

    Something interesting has emerged according to BBC; http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/02/070206_fazal_heart_rs.shtml

    Maulana Fazlul Rehman’s recent angioplasty was carried out by Dr Mubashar Ahmad who arrived specially from US to perform the operation. Ironically Dr Mubashar Ahmad is an Ahmadi. Someone, violation of whose rights have been actively perpetrated by Maulana and his party. In addition Maulana has many a times opposed giving any Kay (“Qaleedeeâ€

  186. MU says:
    February 7th, 2007 9:03 pm

    Many here especially those in US will know about the ongoing case against Louise Scooter Libby a white house aide who is alleged to have disclosed the identity of the CIA agent Valerie Plame allegedly as Valerie Plame’s husband, a diplomat, criticised President Bush’s foreign policy. This brings Valerie Plame out perhaps as a victim who had to pay for her husband’s integrity. But this is not all. It appears that Valerie Plame et al in her CIA unit were focused on spying on scientists from third world countries. One of the places they did that was during conferences at Abdus Salam International Centre for Theoretical Physics. Here is the link to some info; (http://www.cmaq.net/en/node/24989)

    Everyone going to ICTP, be careful what you say. :)

  187. MU says:
    February 7th, 2007 9:06 pm

    PS: Stay away from that blonde. She is not interested in you for your good looks. :)

  188. YLH says:
    February 8th, 2007 2:05 am

    Ahmadis Civil Rights Petition:

    http://www.petitiononline.com/Greywolf/petition.html

    Brand new… so sign away.

  189. YLH says:
    February 8th, 2007 8:35 am

    Honor him by restoring dignity to his embattled community!

  190. MU says:
    February 8th, 2007 4:01 pm

    [quote comment="33121"]
    To ask this is not to support their deviant beliefs. [/quote]

    Why do those who are trying to honour Salam have to piss on his beliefs at the same time? Seems to be a general trend.

    How does this sound.. “Adil runs a great site…this does not mean supporting his deviant beliefs.â€

  191. YLH says:
    February 9th, 2007 2:43 am

    Which is why you should sign this:

    Ahmadis Civil Rights Petition:

    http://www.petitiononline.com/Greywolf/petition.html

  192. Kam says:
    February 11th, 2007 2:30 am

    As i heard ( do not have 100% verification means), its not the religion, but there were other reasons that pak government did not respect the dr well. The major reason was providing important pak atomic informations to western bosses and those who were aware of that act never extended respect to the doctor.

  193. Ashfaq H. says:
    February 11th, 2007 12:50 pm

    Kam, so you can’t confirm it but are happy spread the lies and rumor here just to smear someone’s name. There are words for dispicable rumor mongering and spreading lies, but none of them are polite…

  194. Sirat-e-Mustaqeem says:
    February 15th, 2007 3:26 pm

    Thankyu TRUEFACTS for highlighting the TRUE FACTS:

    [quote] In Pakistan minorities are not facing any real problem[/quote]

    You are exactly right. Just because we sometimes burn their churches, or sometimes kill them under blasphemy laws, or don’t treat them as equal citizens, of course that does not mean they are facing any REAL problems. Just like the Quaid i Azam is not a REAL freedom fighter. You are exactly right. Why doesn’t anyone else understand? They should be honored that REAL muslims are treating them this way, its an honor for them!

  195. MU says:
    February 11th, 2007 8:02 pm

    [quote comment="33667"]As i heard ( do not have 100% verification means), its not the religion, but there were other reasons that pak government did not respect the dr well. The major reason was providing important pak atomic informations to western bosses and those who were aware of that act never extended respect to the doctor.[/quote]

    Kam, one hopes that you are smarter than this. From what we have heard of Pakistan nuclear bomb, it was not made at least until 1988 if not later. Salam was nowhere near by then. Even the bomb was made from information stolen (in seventies) from west. What other secrets/information did Pakistan posses before then? In fact all programmes such as KANUPP, SUPARCO etc were carried out with western help. Do not forget that Pakistan had been a big ally of west in Ayub Khan era to the extent of provided them military bases and in the same period west helped with setting up such institutions as above.

    In any case would you care to substantiate your claim even to a degree less than 100%? This is a serious charge and needs more basis than just “I have heard..â€

  196. YLH says:
    February 12th, 2007 12:16 am

    Kam,

    If you have even an ounce of self respect, you will produce a document proving that the Pakistan government ever suspected Abdus Salam of any such thing. You are floating a lie, because this is what you do. Do you know that in Islam in malicious rumor mongering is as big a sin as shirk itself?
    People this Kam fellow is probably the newest one in the long list of people … the sort that declare that Jinnah was not a freedom fighter and is now inventing “western bosses” …

    Anyway sign petition:

    http://www.petitiononline.com/Greywolf/petition.html

  197. February 12th, 2007 9:52 am

    [...] Last week (February 6) marked the 114th Birthday of one of Pakistan’s greatest unsung heroes. Once again, there was no mention of commemoration of his remarkable like. No sense of gratitude from a nation for which he did so much. He has been wiped out of our memory because he was an Ahmadi, despite his glorious contributions to Pakistan and its cause (see related post on Dr. Abdul Salam). [...]

  198. naz says:
    February 14th, 2007 9:22 pm

    Does anyone know english translation for a skin disease in urdu called korr? There used to some stigma attached to it. Some people thought it was a curse and it can be contigeous.

  199. MU says:
    February 14th, 2007 9:46 pm

    Naz, does korr has anything to do with Dr Salam? He is not *that* kind of doctor. :)

    I think is is called leprosy in English but please double check….I am not even a doctor of any kind. :)

  200. Love2all says:
    February 15th, 2007 3:07 am

    I fail to understand that why YLH is insisting again & again (at least 4 times) to sign the petations. Ahmadies have & enjoying the all rights just like other minorities in Pakistan have. Even they can elect their member in parliment.

    Many of them are our neighbours, we r good friends & have good relations but it doesn’t mean that we consider them as Muslim.

    It is also interesting that two Ahmadies are discussing side by side & at the same time we forget & leave “Sardar Abdul Rab Nishter’

  201. YLH says:
    February 15th, 2007 3:51 am

    Lovetoall,

    Ahmadis are not enjoying the same rights as Hindus or Christians or other Pakistani minorities let alone the rights that majority group enjoys…

    For example, they are not allowed to build their mosques as they wish (they are not allowed to have domes for example) and recently 6 year olds were named in FIRs because they subscribe to an Ahmadi children’s magazine.

    Furthermore… despite the joint electorate… where Muslims Hindus Christians etc appear on the same list, there is a supplementary list for Ahmadis.

  202. Love2all says:
    February 15th, 2007 5:15 am

    Why it’s necessary to build tombs just like Muslim culture. In our locality Ahmadies have place to worship & they are facing no problem.

    On the ideological base I am against the joint electoral list also, because it is against the basic concept of Pakistan movement & two nation ideology

    If some one is not agree with ur any post,then it doesn’t mean that u r bad person or intolerable. What u thinks & say its ur right, what others are saying & thinking is their right.We should use decent language & show positive attitude. We should be careful about selection of words, which reflects our personality.

  203. MU says:
    February 15th, 2007 10:58 am

    [quote comment="34270"]On the ideological base I am against the joint electoral list also, because it is against the basic concept of Pakistan movement & two nation ideology.
    [/quote]

    Then why not give everyone who you consider part of the “otherâ€

  204. truefacts says:
    February 15th, 2007 2:48 pm

    MU ! Two Nation Theory is time tested golden concept. In Pakistan minorities are not facing any real problem as in India Muslims are still facing the real life example is massacre in Gujrat.

    A deviation from seperate electoral system is the deviation from Pakistan Ideology.

  205. February 20th, 2007 2:39 am

    Would any one please give me the definition of term “Muslim”, so that I can verify my “Islam” ?????

  206. Abdullah says:
    February 20th, 2007 6:56 am

    Muslim means ‘Obedient’.

  207. February 22nd, 2007 3:27 am

    As the discussion should be directed only to honour Dr. Abdus Salam & to understand what wrong the nation has done in all this context, but it deviate little from the topic, but its natural atleast regarding the nation like ours.

    [quote post="431"]Would any one please give me the definition of term “Muslimâ€

  208. Mohsin Mahmood says:
    February 22nd, 2007 5:22 pm

    Adil

    I was thinking, can we not take posts like this and use the pertinent info from comments as well to create online ‘ATP Booklets’ on these personalities? May be we can take it further to places, things etc.?

    Regards

  209. Mubarak says:
    February 23rd, 2007 2:45 am

    PHYSICS IS PHYSICS IT IS NOT AHMADI, MUSLIM, CHRISTIAN, JEW ETC. SO IF THE PEOPLE OF KNOWLEDGE ARE DOING GOOD FOR HUMANITY WHY THE DISCUSSION OF FAITH. IF WE DO NOT WANT TO RECOGNIZE SALAM’S GENIUS THEN WE SHOULD ALSO CEASE TO USE INVENTIONS LIKE: BULB, TV, TELEPHONE, AIRPLANE, TRAIN, SHIPS ETC. ETC. AS THESE WERE NOT INVENTED BY MUSLIMS. WE SHOULD SERIOUSLY WORRY ABOUT OUR FAITHS FOR USING ALL THESE INVENTIONS OF NON-MUSLIMS.

    I FEEL PITY FOR THE MUSLIM WORLD.

  210. YLH says:
    February 23rd, 2007 6:12 am

    Mubarik sahab,

    You are a good man because you speak the language of logic. May your tribe increase.

  211. Mubarak says:
    February 23rd, 2007 6:41 am

    YLH,

    Thanks. You are the only rational intellect around here. You also have a great temperament. May Allah grant “them” the brains to understand logic.

    This also reminds me of Dr. I.H.Usmani (co-chaired PAEC with Salam) who has tremendous services for the development of Atomic Energy in Pakistan but again, is an unsung hero.

  212. February 26th, 2007 12:02 pm

    I am in total agreement with you on this one – keep up the good work;)

  213. YLH says:
    February 27th, 2007 1:00 am

    Love2all,

    You wrote that joint electorate is against the ideological base of the Pakistan movement… this is an absolutely absurd claim with no basis in history.

    It is well known that the “ideological base” of the Pakistan Movement is for the minority to choose what kind of constitutional arrangement it would want to be part of.

    It is well known that in principle (which even shows up in 14 points), Jinnah was always in favour of eventual evolution to Joint electorate. However, the demand for separate electorate came from the Muslims themselves.

    Hence the principle is not to impose “separate electorate” but to let the minority choose. And the minorities in Pakistan have said very clearly that they prefer joint electorate. Hence to deny them joint electorate would be the negation of the ideological basis of the Pakistan Movement.

  214. Abdullah says:
    February 27th, 2007 5:18 am

    YLH,

    Its all ur own self made interpretation of Pakistan Movement & its ideology. Muslims of India had seperate identity with majority Indians, in all maens.

    They struggled for the state where they can practice their religion under the supreme governing law of Quran & Sunna.

    [quote post="431"]However, the demand for separate electorate came from the Muslims themselves [/quote]

    Quaid-e-Azam demanded the seperate electoral for Muslims because he believed on two nation theory. He said Pakistan have been formed at that time when first Muslims puts his step in India.

  215. YLH says:
    February 27th, 2007 6:46 am

    Dear Abdullah,

    The only self made interpretation of the Pakistan Movement is by people who themselves had opposed it. I am merely setting the record straight as an honest person and the follower of the Quaid-e-Azam. What you’ve written is merely a regurgitation of Indian propaganda…

    That Quaid-e-Azam Jinnah preferred joint electorates as a principle is very clear. Not only did he oppose separate electorates vociferously when they were first introduced but later on when he put forward separate electorates, he still made sure that the eventual return to joint electorates were allowed.

    Here are some quotes from Jinnah himself…

    Jinnah appeared in a committee on separate electorates and was EXAMINED BY MAJOR ORMSBY-GORE.

    Q. 3806.â€

  216. YLH says:
    February 27th, 2007 6:49 am

    PS: It goes without saying that it wasn’t Quaid-e-Azam who had asked for separate electorates but Aga Khan and Syed Ameer Ali in 1906 … Jinnah- then a part of the Congress Party- had actually attacked the idea …

    So it is time to update your history and forget what Zia-inspired Pakistan studies forced you to memorise.

  217. Omer Maqsood says:
    February 27th, 2007 9:13 am

    I have just come across this article and the related posts. I dont have much doubts that Dr. Salam was a good scientist and I am happy that he won the Nobel prize as a Paksitani.

    Adnan Siddiqi I have read your posts and let me say that I am satisfied that there are still some original enlightened moderate people in this new virtual society of enlightened moderation. I have saved your reply during one of your discussion with some Qadiyyani, I suppose, and I am sure that I will have the chance to use it as a reference sometime or the other. Thanks!

  218. Mazhar Islam says:
    March 4th, 2007 12:28 pm

    This was a great man who has done great service to humanity and to knowledge. Let us please not sully his memory with this petiness.

  219. Maqsooq Umer says:
    February 27th, 2007 10:31 am

    PS: Abdus Salam does not require your patronisation. He is great *despite* and not *due* to people like you.

  220. AZAM says:
    February 27th, 2007 10:40 am

    Dr. Salam did not ask for anyone’s validation of his beliefs when he was alive an he does not need that validation from anyone now that he is dead.

    Not only are most of us no where near as good scientists as him, we are not even half the human being he was. No matter what you think of him and his beliefs, a just God will certainly reward him for that humanity.

  221. Abdullah says:
    February 28th, 2007 1:31 am

    YLH,

    I am not interested in waisting other times in reading such a long posts. Small size objective oriented communication is an “Art”. I know, u can’t change ur “Mindset” because u will must adhere with ur baseless arguments

    But for those who wants to explore the truth, kindly visit following links

    1) http://www.storyofpakistan.com/contribute.asp?artid=C031

    2)http://eprints.hec.gov.pk/699/

    3)http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Articles/politics/mawdudi2.html

    4) http://ecumene.org/IIS/csss61.htm

    5) http://www.hvk.org/articles/1000/50.html

    I think its enough to read, but I know u will argue, u can’t beat ur habit.

  222. mazhar butt says:
    February 28th, 2007 5:40 am

    It is regretful to note that a person of Salam’s
    stature would be so narrow minded and biased in matters of religion. Most unusually like most other scientists Salam had a faith is incredible !
    This is the reason that despite his being a laureate he doesn’t enjoy the respect and honor of his folks who blame him for letting them down in matters of their religion and faith. Then, apart from being a privately chosen Pakistani laureate what other notable service has he done for this country??

  223. YLH says:
    March 1st, 2007 12:38 am

    Abdullah,

    Ofcourse you are not interested in “waisting” (wasting) your time reading what Jinnah himself said (I merely quoted his own words) because that would shatter into a million pieces the myths concocted in the name of history.

    So instead of accepting the facts you are now posting links to opinions and calling those opinions the truth.

  224. Abdullah says:
    March 1st, 2007 5:23 am

    Mazhar Butt !

    Try to understand the debate,

    1) No one is denying his contribution in Science
    2) It is honor for Pakistan that he received the Noble prize
    3) As a Pakistani he should be respected & we have pride on him

    But,

    We are not ready to consider him a Muslim. We are not ready to claim that he served Islam. We respect him as a Pakistani but not as a Muslim.

    YLH,

    Buddy ! If I am doing the same, what u r doing then what wrong in this?

  225. YLH says:
    March 1st, 2007 7:19 am

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with you expressing your point of view… but you are not doing what I am doing. I am quoting Jinnah’s own words, which put to rest the lies that Jamaat-e-Islami has been trying to propagate despite its shady anti-Pakistan past.

    There is always a difference between primary source and a secondary- nay tertiary – source … but I don’t expect you to understand this.

  226. Disciple says:
    March 1st, 2007 10:00 am

    [quote comment="35967"]
    We are not ready to claim that he served Islam. [/quote]

    I don’t usually respond to idioticalness…but here I am making an exception…

    What is this “we” business? Are you a leader of some sort representing a group of people… or are you royalty? Not that it matters if you are ready to claim something or not. I don’t recall anyone begging.

    But just out of interest….how is serving Muslims (which Salam did) not serving Islam, or did not serve Islam? What do you expect him to have done to serve Islam, to lead everyone in namaz?

    If anything, if a “kafir” serves Muslims then its even more commendable and not something to be upset about.

  227. Abdullah says:
    March 1st, 2007 11:37 pm

    Dear Disciple,

    U r starting from end, I will appreciate if u start from the end.

    We are also saying the same thing, don’t bring Islam, in Salam’s contribution in Physics

  228. Abdullah says:
    March 1st, 2007 11:42 pm

    Sorry, for typo error, U should start to read the comments from begining -Thanks

  229. Disciple says:
    March 2nd, 2007 1:09 am

    [quote comment="36060"]Dear Disciple,

    U r starting from end, I will appreciate if u start from the end.

    We are also saying the same thing, don’t bring Islam, in Salam’s contribution in Physics[/quote]

    Abdullah, what has my question got to do with what you discussed before as my question merly questions your very last post and not anything from before. I asked you how did Salam not serve Islam or what would have convinced you that Salam served Islam? What is so difficult about this to answer? Are you saying he did not server Islam? Why?

  230. mazhar butt says:
    March 2nd, 2007 2:05 pm

    Its all ur own self made interpretation of Pakistan Movement & its ideology. Muslims of India had seperate identity with majority Indians, in all maens.

    the two nation theory went down the drain with the formation of Bangla Desh !

    Initially, Muslims were definitely not for a Pakistan and only wanted due representation in India. Later events helped the Quaid and his coterie to shift positions and to opt for a separate home land for Muslims. Quaid was a great statesman, a great lawyer and knew very well how to make best of situations and he did succeed in that. As for his speeches, these do not essentially a pece of scripture to be literally believed and followed and neither the Quaid was a prophet to claim immunity from flaws ,,,,,,,he might have said something circumstantially but substantively he was for a separate home land for muslims ,,,,,,,,where all could live in harmony BUT within the ambit of Islamic edicts. Unfortunately, we have lost that dream of his and may be it will never come true !

  231. Mubarak says:
    March 3rd, 2007 1:23 am

    quote comment=”35967″]

    If anything, if a “kafir” serves Muslims then its even more commendable and not something to be upset about.[/quote]

    Can anybody tell me had anyone ever been declared “Kafir” by Prophet Muhammad (Sallala ho alaihi wassalam) in his lifetime or by Sahaba-e-karam.?

    We feel very convenient to call anybody “kafir”. When we call somebody “kafir” , actually at that time we sort of advertise that we have a certificate form God that we are true “muslims”.

    Non-Muslims are serving humanity all over the world in every aspect of life specially engineering, medicines etc. so when we talk about achievements of Einstein why does not anybody discuss about him being a jew or Newton being a christian and so on. Why?. Our textbooks are full of praise for the western scientists. Were they not Kafirs???.

    O True Muslims, Go ahead and stop using the Western technology and even a fraction of their work should not be praised as they are non Muslims.

    Pakistanis, For God Sakes it is enough for anyone to be a Pakistani to be praised for his achievements and not him being muslim or non-muslim for that is an individual’s own faith and trueness of which is only verifiable by God Himself, not any mortal being.

    Pity the nation who cannot praise its heroes. Pity the nation which has wasted generations of generations of talent just in the name of religion/faith.

  232. Arifa says:
    March 3rd, 2007 3:48 pm

    The real point of the debate has long been lost.

    Do we have the right to decide who is and who si not a Muslim. Or is that something that only Allah can decide.

    I think only Allah can.

  233. Mubarak says:
    March 5th, 2007 1:39 am

    [quote comment="35800"]This was a great man who has done great service to humanity and to knowledge. Let us please not sully his memory with this petiness.[/quote]

    He really indeed was a great man but the attitude of our nation towards him is very depressing.

  234. UMAIR says:
    March 8th, 2007 8:47 am

    What was a beautiful post originally has now turned into a pathetic conversation. Trying to prove who is and who is not a muslim on a blog is as silly and trying to  prove it in parliament. Let Allah decide who is and who is not a Muslim and try to be decent Muslims yourself whatever your beliefs.

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