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<i>Jahalat</i>: How Superstition Murdered Shagufta

Posted on December 13, 2006
Filed Under >Adil Najam, Law & Justice, Society, Women
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""Adil Najam

An Islamabad-based reader alerted me to the news about Shagufta’s tragic death at the hands of her father and brothers; but really at the hands of societal ignorance and superstition. This is a story of ‘jahalat’ in its truest, deepest, most shameful, and most repulsive form.

Why was Shugafta axed to death – and later burnt – by her family? (Her father, three brothers, and her younger sister were all differently involved.) because they all believed that she was possessed by demons!

And why would they think so? The story has layer over layer of complications and meaning about what is wrong, not just here but in too many places: supposed ‘spiritual mentors’ (pirs) instigating hatred, regressive beliefs and customs, the pressures of a postponed marriage, possibly incest, and more.



There is so much that is sad here, so much that should be analyzed, so much that needs to be put right. But, for now, let me leave that to you and just reproduce the news item from Dawn (December 10, 2006):

Shagufta, alias Surrayya, the ill-fated girl killed by her father and brothers in a Harappa village on Wednesday was normal. This was learnt during a visit to the village on Saturday.

Surrayya, 22, was axed to death by her father Jamal Arain, brothers Ashraf and Sharif after being instigated by her younger sister Razia in their house at 1-10L village on Wednesday. Jamal, a vendor, has now three sons – Ashraf, Sharif and Aslam – and a daughter, Razia. All family members, including the arrested Jamal and his two sons, seemed to be insane. They repeatedly claimed that Surrayya was possessed by demons that wanted to kill all the family members.

They said Razia had found a ring outside a seminary where she learnt the Quran. They said she took the ring as of gold and placed it on fire to test the metal. They said there was a burst and demons started coming to their house. They said demons possessed Surrayya, who was leading a normal life just a week ago and was considered to be the most responsible member of the family by the villagers.

Jamal told Dawn that the demons inside Surrayya tried to kill him and his family members. He said he had no choice but to kill her. Her brother Sharif claimed that his spiritual mentor Sain Khoi Wala addressed him through Razia and told him that there were demons inside Surrayya and advised him to kill them. "I and other family members helped the father in killing the demons and not Surrayya. We did it to save our family," he said.

When asked, the villagers said that Jamal and his family members were a little unsocial but they never observed any abnormality in them in the past. They said Surrayya was a sensible girl and she used to do household chores like any other normal girl. They, however, said Jamal and his family members were superstitious to the core and they believed in black magic as well.

A few days ago, they said, they observed some abnormal practices in Jamal’s house. Qari Zahid, who teaches the Quran to Razia, told Dawn that Sharif asked him two days before the murder of Surrayya to recite the Quran in his house along with two dozen people. He said he did so. He said Sharif told him later that his sister Razia informed him that Allah had selected him (Sharif) as (Haji) and now all people should call him as Haji Sharif. Razia had also informed Sharif that Surrayya was possessed by demons, Zahid said.

On Wednesday night, he said Jamal’s neighbours took him to his (Jamal’s) house and he heard noise inside. "We found the door of the house locked from inside. Some people climbed the wall of the house and saw Sharif and Ashraf manhandling their sister."

"We saved her and called out police. Harrappa police officials snubbed male members and warned them. Locals and policemen left at around 1:30am." On Thursday morning, Zahid said the locals saw smoke billowing from the house and Jamal sitting outside. They called out police who found the charred body of Surrayya inside the house. Qari Zahid said the conduct of Razia after the incident was strange. He said she was his student and had never acted the way she was behaving.

The reporters also saw her holding bricks into her hands. She reportedly killed two goats with the bricks on Saturday. Jamal’s wife Naseem Akhtar, alias Laddu, said Surrayya’s Nikkah had taken place six months ago. She said the family wanted to hold a joint wedding ceremony of Surrayya and Sharif, who was engaged. His in-laws reportedly broke the engagement. It was learnt that the delay in her marriage upset Surrayya and she burnt her dowry in protest. Her father and brothers got mad at her and cursed her.

Sharif said their (the family’s) spiritual mentor Sain Khoi Wala, who lives in Chichawatni, told them that Surrayya had been unlucky for them and they started hating her for this reason. Meanwhile, Jamal, Sharif and Arshad were sent to the Sahiwal Central Jail on a 14-day judicial remand.

The paintaing at the top of the post is a famous oil canvas by Sadequain.

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49 Comments on “<i>Jahalat</i>: How Superstition Murdered Shagufta”

  1. Sufi says:
    December 13th, 2006 7:30 pm

    I dont know what to say. I have seen many parhay likhay people being involved in kala-jaadu, taweez etc. One of my own friends mother died last year and they experienced several other hardships in life, which they directly blamed to Kala-Jadu done by some family members. I always believed them to be rational smart people. I don’t want to believe in any such thing, but when I heard the stories coming out of my friends mouth.. it sounded so real. Even though they suffered greatly, they chose not to hire any peer-baba etc and chose to only pray namaz / sadqay, they are doing good mashaAllah.

    The story above is so creepy. Almost like one of those exorcist movies..

  2. Sufi says:
    December 13th, 2006 8:01 pm

    Just read this..

    Aur kitni jihalat ho sakti hai :(

  3. December 13th, 2006 8:11 pm

    Here is the full version of the remarkable story that Sufi mentioned in the comment above. Do visit his Karachi Metroblog post please. Thanks for sharing this, Sufi.

    Once again, this touches on so many themes of societal attitudes, role of law, and status of women… here are the details accoridng to Daily Times:

    KARACHI: A local village dispute which began with two young men squabbling over music cassettes, culminated in the alleged gang rape of a 45-year-old mother of ten during which her ten-year-old daughter was stripped. The family held a press conference Wednesday with NGO, the Aurat Foundation, in order to appeal for justice.

    According to them, on November 1, Shehzadi of the Nagore Rajpars was allegedly gang raped by members of a neighbouring tribe, the Haji Rajpars. Her 20-year-old son, Muhammad Nawab, had borrowed some cassettes from a friend from the Haji Rajpar tribe. Both groups are residents of Tehsil Mehtab Pur, District Nausheroferoze and the Nagore Rajpars live in Yusuf Goth.

    The cassettes were damaged and his friend demanded that he either replace them, or pay up. After a fight, Nawab’s friend then told his elders that Nawab had been allegedly making a pass at one of their girls, Guddi. When the elders of the Nagore Rajpars learnt of this they dispatched a messenger to ask for forgiveness. He was told that all was well between them. However, just to be sure of the fact, the Nagore Rajpars sent a “merrâ€

  4. Baber says:
    December 13th, 2006 8:21 pm

    [quote comment="16417"]I have seen many parhay likhay people being involved in kala-jaadu, taweez etc.
    [/quote]

    I know why, because if you read the sign of these psychic/exorcist its say M.A Naggi or Professor Ajhmeri or Professor Kala Shah and B.A Baba falahna dimkhana (I did make some names up). Check Rainbow center and Hasan Square in Karachi.
    BAffling! but the most shocking thing is that mostly women believe in this and go to these BABA’s.

  5. Sufi says:
    December 13th, 2006 8:31 pm

    Gang rape victim seeks justice
    By our correspondent

    KARACHI: In pursuance of justice, a 40-year-old gang rape victim from district Naushero Feroze, arrived at Karachi after seeking help of an NGO, Aurat Foundation.

    Most of the perpetrators are arrested but she continues to receive threatening calls from the three men, who are still at large. In a press conference held by the victim and her family members on Wednesday at the press club, Shezadi Nagore disclosed that 44 days back she was sexually assaulted by a gang of five men while she was working in the fields in her village Mohammad Yousuf Nagore in Naushero Feroze.

    “I was working in the fields with my husband and daughter when 12 armed men attacked us.â€

  6. Ghalib says:
    December 13th, 2006 11:26 pm

    well this is terrible all men an women committing this shud be hanged in public no mercy all all!
    Its is for this reason Islam banishes “jadu-kala ilm”.Surah e Falak and Surah e Nasss in Holy Quran were sent for the very reason that Hazrat Muhammad PBUH was a victim of jadu too!
    Jinaat and these ilm are true!who possess them or work with them its hard to say!many people just utilise the ill will among relations(saas bahu,mian biwi nands etc) I wonder as most with these kind of money making peers have loads of women surrounding them and the have special agent women in each village!they can solve problems frm marriage uptil infertility!many women are raped an keep mute and are blackmailed as well!
    One of my brother above said that many educated people follow them its true!becoz its hakeekat i mean jadu toona but manier times its just some problems that people attribute others like putting ur blame on jadu thru relatives in defence of their failures.But the real problem is education coz outta these 70-80% may be more peers and jadugars are fake with nuffin just exploiting ur own failures.Our educated people have learnt books but the real education wasnt infused its said in am native pothohari language “tussan parhi tay gay oo per gurray nai o” means u have learnt but havent experienced/judged the world.Its a huge buziness our politicians even go to them its falsely relatedd to tasawuff that has nuffin to do with it.A person doin this stuff is out of the circleof islam.and its forbidden even to visit these people all we can do is pray to Allah an educate our women an men what islam is.
    Palmistry is as well forbidden for the very reason.
    EDUCATE the WOMEN an MEN and hang who ever so do this and is caught doing so!i guess thats the modernity that we should be talking about!

  7. Eidee Man says:
    December 13th, 2006 11:27 pm

    Such sad events are the result of the utter lack of education and self-analysis in our uneducated and ‘educated’ populace. Sadly, most people take the word of their elders over everything else and consider it to be an accurate representation of religion, morals, etc. And because of this reason, you have things like forced marriages, etc etc….there is a HUGE confusion between religion and tradition.

    For instance, I was shocked to learn that (as has been said above) quite a few ‘rational’ people go to some sort of ‘holy man’ to see whether the name they have chosen for their newborn is correct with respect to astrological stuff like ‘alignment with starts’ and other such absurdities. This is partly due to the fact that the rituals of polytheistic religions have somehow seeped in. And anyone who has seen 10 minutes of the Indian dramas that are runaway hits in Pakistan will know that these ideas are strongly reinforced by these TV shows.

  8. Samdani says:
    December 13th, 2006 11:56 pm

    [quote comment="16474"]shud be hanged in public no mercy all all!
    [/quote]
    What is this fetish with hanging people, chopping hands, beheading. Is that the only solution we have for every problem in the world!

  9. TURAB says:
    December 14th, 2006 1:19 am

    Education and awareness is the only way … not those sadistic methods listed above….

  10. Umar Shah says:
    December 14th, 2006 1:27 am

    I dont believe a word of this story. I believe that this is another case of hush hushing something else that went wrong with this poor girl. Maybe she was raped or was wronged in a way we will never know. The easiest way to cover up is to say that she was possessed and they were commanded by some pir to burn her. These people should be hung by their necks without delay. The fuedalistic/tribalistic traditional society that exists in interior Pakistan must be abolished to end these injustices. It takes one man to do this. But this man has to be the most powerful in Pakistan. Over the last 3 decades we have seen many men make changes to the way we live in Pakistan. Bhutto, Zia, Musharraf all have done their bit, good or bad is besides the point. This issue and many others need to be addressed.

  11. Ahsan says:
    December 14th, 2006 3:23 am

    It is a horrible story. How one can burn his own daughter or sister in the name of some black demon or on the advice of some pious person? Indeed there is jahAlat involved in it, but it is neither the only nor the basic cause. We know that in Pakistan many rich and educated people also commit unreasonable and horrible acts. Some of them are only perpatuated by them, like marrying a girl to the Holy Book.
    All religious communities are based on Faith or AymAn (Iman). Even if we accept that the foundation of Pakistan is not the religion, the fact is that it is an Islamic Republic and people are getting more and more religious minded. So, the great majority of Pakistanis (educated included) consider that Belief or AymAn (Iman) is the Truth. They never REASON to find the TRUTH.
    You can give all the education to Pakistanis nothing will change unless you teach them that they should apply reason to find the truth. Who will dare?

  12. Shah says:
    December 14th, 2006 4:19 am

    @Ahsan
    So what do you exactly mean, I am hoping that you are not trying to equate this behaviour with Islam,
    Are you also implying that(ایمان)Iman negates reason!?

  13. Omar R. Quraishi says:
    December 14th, 2006 7:31 am

    The News did an editorial on this on Monday, Dec. 11, 2006

    Who will help the ‘possessed’?

    The incident of a young woman being burnt to death by her father and two brothers, on a so-called faith-healer’s advice, is heart-rending and most tragic. It reflects society’s general reluctance and unwillingness to acknowledge the fact that hundreds of thousands of people suffer from mental illnesses in Pakistan and that what the victims suffer from is treatable through medical treatment and/or psychological and psychiatric counselling. Both the latter are fairly undeveloped fields in Pakistan and most practising psychologists and psychiatrists are restricted mainly to the three largest urban centres of Karachi, Lahore and Rawalpindi/Islamabad.

    In this particular case, a 30-year-old resident of a village near Sahiwal used to have fits but those around her took that to mean that she was possessed by an evil spirit. Reportedly, she was engaged to be married but had refused the second step and had also burnt her dowry — both not very good things in Pakistan’s overwhelmingly patriarchal society. The woman’s family was goaded in this misplaced thinking by a faith-healer who also advised the woman’s family that they should deal with the evil spirit by attacking him and this they could by burning him. The faith-healer said that this tactic would drive away the evil spirit but would not harm the young woman. The power of superstition and ‘jahalat’ is such that the woman’s family members did not bother questioning the faith-healer if the fire wouldn’t also mortally injure the woman, given that one does not need formal or even basic education to know what the response of human skin is to a burning fire. In any case, since the family seemed bent on ‘driving’ out this evil spirit, the next time the woman had a fit, her father and her two brothers got to work. They ‘attacked’ the spirit with an axe and then set ‘it’ on fire. Obviously, the illiterate father and brothers did not realise that they had just axed their own sister and burnt her as well. It wasn’t too long before the woman succumbed to her burns — most district-level hospitals lack quality medical healthcare, especially requisite facilities to treat second- or third-degree burns.

    The only positive thing out of this whole grisly episode is that at least the three assailants have been taken into custody by the police. Had they known that the reason why their daughter/sister used to have fits was because of a medical condition known as epilepsy and that it is treatable through medicines, the poor woman’s life could have been saved. The whole episode also tends to reflect the perception of most Pakistanis — rich or poor, illiterate or even educated — that people have mental illnesses are basically mad or ‘pagal’. This is the worst thing that can happen to someone who suffers from such an illness because it takes away a family’s support, which could have a healing effect on such a person and help him or her feel a valued and normal member of society. Unfortunately, this does not happen in most cases and our society by and large shuns such people with their families abandoning them and sending them away to a half-way house or at the mercy of an Edhi shelter. In many cases, those who do not suffer the misfortune of being sent away and are instead kept in the home are still made to feel as if they are ‘untouchables’ and never allowed to mix with guests or outsiders. Ironically, it’s not as if the saner among us are all that sane. The incidence of rage and anger is quite common and most people often tend to take non-rational approaches to resolving even minor or petty conflicts. Unless we as a society try and understand that not everyone who suffers from a mental illness is crazy, the plight of around 10 per cent (estimates by medical experts) of the population will not improve.

  14. Akif Nizam says:
    December 14th, 2006 9:40 am

    [quote comment="16550"]@Ahsan
    So what do you exactly mean, I am hoping that you are not trying to equate this behaviour with Islam,
    Are you also implying that(ایمان)Iman negates reason!?[/quote]

    I think that Iman by definition is the opposite of reason. Not to say that everything in life should be based on reason alone; one has to reasonable about using reason.

  15. MQ says:
    December 14th, 2006 10:32 am

    Acha hai dil kay paas rahay paasbaan-e-aql
    Laikan kabhi kabhi isay tanhaa bhi chorr day

  16. Baber says:
    December 14th, 2006 11:31 am

    Why can’t the govt ban Kala jadu and exorcism? Oh! it can but its not priority right now. Blaming on culture and religion is ludicrous. Awareness is something we can do, but how big is my circle. I don’t even now anybody in a village :(.
    As for people recommending capital punishments, Why do we always think about others that they can only understand with a dandha(whip) in their ass or in somebody else’s ass. Is dandha(whip) the only language our people understand?. What is a Pakistani mentality? Somebody? PLEASE!!

  17. Ahsan says:
    December 14th, 2006 11:45 am

    Dear MQ, thanks for your balanced view expressed in your above two lines. My many thanks to Akif Nizam to provide the definition of Iman (AymAn) to Shah. Since the question:

    “Are you also implying that(ایمان)Iman negates reason!?”

    to me. I owe him an answer.

    Basically, I am concerned with two words “Reason” and “Belief”. It is true that in Islam the word Belief has a special meaning which is expressed by the word “AymAn”. This word is the first step towards Islam because with this word a Muslim accepts the existance of one and only one God and also the fact that the Prophet Muhammad is God’s messenger. This acceptance is ‘REAL and TRUE withoud any question and without any doubt’ This absence of doubt indicates the absence of reason in AymAn and not the negation as you would like to imply.
    I have no objection if you believe that REASON is not absent but implicitely contained in AymAn.

    Only problem is that you will have to take it out to do any Scientific Research or independent thinking.

    Ahsan

  18. Akif Nizam says:
    December 14th, 2006 11:54 am

    [quote post="468"]My many thanks to Akif Nizam to provide the definition of Iman (AymAn) to Shah. [/quote]

    Ahsan, sorry brother for stepping on your toes. Pulled the trigger too quickly.

  19. zamanov says:
    December 14th, 2006 2:29 pm

    This should be treated as a capital crime and the perpetrators should be treated according to the law of the land. Trying to equate this with Islam or culture isn’t going to solve the problem.

    You can practice whatever version of jadoo, palmistry, pagan worship, or chilla etc. that floats your boat as long as you do it in the confines of your home and there is no physical or mental harm on another individual in society. Once there is a potential for harming another individual or evidence of assault, torture, etc. then the law & order mechanism of society MUST step in to put an end to this criminal activity.

    Imaan or culture should not be the subject of debate here. Everyone should be free to think of imaan as they deem fit for their personal life and free to define their version of faith/religion/worship. Bottom line is that NO OTHER person should be harassed or harmed by the practice of your imaan or religous custom.

    A black, (supposedly) Christian, woman microwaves her baby in the US. Does that imply that all black women in the US are sick? All Christian women are baby killers? All black people are psychotic? Or does this woman need to be psychiatrically evaluated and in the event she is deemed sane then tried for murder under the laws of the land?

  20. zamanov says:
    December 14th, 2006 2:45 pm

    On the editorial by The News I agree with the message completely. Mental illness is a significant issue in Pakistani society which is hidden under the rug because of cultural taboos and lack of understanding of their medical causes.
    Who cares what happens to people suffering from epilepsy, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder , or manic depression since they are all ‘pagal’ and there is no ‘sharia-compliant’ way to handle them. They can all rot in their homes as long as we don’t have to deal with them. It’s a shame but what can you expect from a people or their government who can still not figure out the difference between rape and adultery.

  21. Baber says:
    December 14th, 2006 4:22 pm

    [quote comment="16665"]
    You can practice whatever version of jadoo, palmistry, pagan worship, or chilla etc. that floats your boat as long as you do it in the confines of your home and there is no physical or mental harm on another individual in society. [/quote]

    I 100% agree with you but the fact is that Kala Jadu / Exorcism is a business in Pakistan. They run marketing campaigns and women are their main targets/customers. I have visited their offices/houses, they have a separate pardha wahlah room for women. It is damaging the society both mentally and physically. Just education and awareness won’t work.

  22. Akif Nizam says:
    December 14th, 2006 5:27 pm

    Baber, the Jaadoo industry you speak of is not structured to perform Kaala Jadoo and exorcism but to remove it. How can the govt ban something which people, by viture of their faith, believe to be curative in nature ? Pakistanis, for most part, believe that there is such a thing as Jaadoo and Jinn and that includes the educated and enlightened classes.

  23. Kashif says:
    December 14th, 2006 5:59 pm

    We all know where the problems lie: feudal system, corrupt police, corrupt judiciary, illiterate populace, etc, etc.

    In my opinion it is about time that we bring these issues out in the open, and by open I mean in front of the international community. Why? Because humiliation is the biggest motivator of them all, and also the biggest weapon (why do think tribes rape women each other’s women in front of their men?) Look at the case of Mukhtaran Mai. If it had been left to the devices of the Pakistan govt., the case would have died just like any other. Even the usually sensible Musharraf did the stupidest thing of all and tried to block the poor woman from travelling abroad. In the end, it was public global humiliation meted out to the president that brought this issue to the front and allowed Mukhtaran Mai to travel abroad and learn so many new things. Now, her courage has brought a good name to her and it is her greatness that she is using this publicity to promote education of girls in Pakistan rather than seeking revenge.

    This case is the biggest evidence that opening your heart to the world, showing your wounds in the global arena and discussing your troubles in the open with an open heart is not the equivalent of airing your dirty laundry. Instead, it is a cathartic action that provides insights and solutions that are not avaialable from within. But most importantly, it binds the hands of those in power from letting the perpetrators get away with their heinous crimes just because they blong to the feudal families.

    So to answer the question ‘what can we do?’, here is my suggestion: let us start a group or a website where all such incidents can be reported with full details. Let us make tis website a repository of such events available to all international news sources. I am sure that we have enough people here with the right technical knowledge and press cred to make such a thing happen. I am available for any help on the tech side as well as with writing.

  24. Shah says:
    December 14th, 2006 7:01 pm

    @ brothers Akif and Ahsan:
    What you say is partly fine, but my 2 cents are:
    Iman or belief is not the opposite of reason! Ok, if one inherits his/her belief, then maybe one can see it in this way, but as you should know, Iman CANNOT be inherited!
    In English, one says “reason to believeâ€

  25. Shah says:
    December 14th, 2006 7:04 pm

    And further of-course, there is no doubt to the fact fully that the main topic of this post is a capital crime, that should be punished according to the degree of the crime, and measures should be taken to stop this from happening further! Indeed this is (جÛ

  26. Baber says:
    December 14th, 2006 7:12 pm

    If you read one of the signs on the street and listen to the TV ads, It claims “Kalay Jadu kay mahir” meaning an expert in Kalah Jadu. People pay(rupees) to these experts to do jadu on their enemies, vice versa. And have you ever seen people performing exorcism, they beat the crap out of the possessed person. Shugafta is a victim of this cult. God knows how many Shagaft’s have to die before we realizes that Jadu should be banned. One person I know of used to go to these pir baba’s to do Jadu on his future mother-in-law. And he told me that he was doin’ this because his mother in law went to another pir baba to do jadu(spell) on him. His future mother-in-law was against the wedding I believe. Both of them educated(BA) individuals. If you think its only cities infact you should visit interior Sindh (Savern Sharif).

  27. zamanov says:
    December 15th, 2006 12:08 am

    Supposedly educated people in many western countries go to astrologers or call 1900 numbers to get psychic help and there are still exorcisms performed in the US by certain organizations. The fact of the matter is you cannot stop these beliefs in supernatural or one-eyed monsters especially not in a country with a huge number of illiterates and ill-educated as Pakistan. As I said before what the law should specify is that NO PHYSICAL (or psychological for that matter) HARM can be done to any human being in this society. And if a crime is committed in whosoever’s name (whether it be god, satan, or sanyasi baba) that the law considers this a crime AGAINST the state and no leniency be shown to the perpetrator. Loopholes like the ill-applied qisas and diyat provisions which allow filthy criminals to walk away with murder should be amended. A crime such as this despicable murder should be considered a crime against the state and there should be no legal loophole for the brothers, father or the fake exorcizer to get away with this. PERIOD.

    Untill and unless society, through the mechanism of the state, punishes these criminals without leniency there will be no end to these ghastly crimes in the Islamic or secular republic of Pakistan. When people like the Khar scion who threw acid on his wife, the numerous honor killings by influential and educated people, the gang rapes and public strippings by jirgas do not get punished by the state, there can be no hope for justice for the shaguftas or mukhtaran mais of this country. State “Justice” has to be applied fairly and equally to every member of society for us to have any hope that such a unhuman act will not be committed again.

    It is futile to ask for kaala jadoo or palmistry or taweez to be banned in Pakistan. Again, I may not agree with a certain custom of yours but you have every right to practice it and profit from it as long as there is no physical harm being done to a human being. These things are ingrained in the customs of the people and the only panacea for that is to keep punishing the people who do actual harm and actually have legislators make laws that allow justice to be fairly applied in society. Henceforth any urbanite in Peshawar, Karachi, Lahore or any villager from Kasur, Lasbela, Mardan would know that there is no escape from the jaws of Justice and he or she WILL BE punished if someone gets harmed by their actions.

  28. Ahsan says:
    December 15th, 2006 1:35 am

    [quote comment="16715"]@ brothers Akif and Ahsan:

    Personally, I am a professional researcher, and I don’t think that Iman would hinder my scientific research in anyway.[/quote]

    Dear Shah, I am glad to learn that you are a professional researcher. It is no surprise that you are not hindered by Iman in your scientific endeavour because you simply do not do the research with your Iman but with Reason (ie Logic and Scientific Method). Here Reason is indepentnd of Iman. Glad to have conversed with you.
    Ahsan

  29. Shah says:
    December 15th, 2006 6:42 am

    @ Ahsan
    Jinaab, the pleasure is all mine!

    @ Zamanov
    [quote comment="16765"]
    It is futile to ask for kaala jadoo or palmistry or taweez to be banned in Pakistan. Again, I may not agree with a certain custom of yours but you have every right to practice it and profit from it as long as there is no physical harm being done to a human being. These things are ingrained in the customs of the people [/quote]

    I would not call this a custom of OURS (what a disgrace!), its rather a plague, a short-cut of getting things done by compromising others! I have never heard of it bringing universal good to all the parties involved, otherwise it would not have been called “KALA” Jadoo (کالا جادو ) would it? All its sources should be banished!

    The state of our ignorance is such that most black magic experts claim to be Religous Scholars, and that of the same religion which clearly wants them eradicated (now figure out who the fool is!)!

    Then why is it not supressed in this so called “Islamic Republic” (indeed this title brings disgrace to Islam…), because of the so called “elite” being involved in excercising it!

  30. British Pakistani says:
    December 15th, 2006 9:25 am

    HOLY!…I pray for girls that happen to be in such ignorant families

  31. zamanov says:
    December 15th, 2006 1:35 pm

    @Shah

    I hate to break the bad news to you but practices such as jadoo tona, taweez, palmistry are practiced widely in the holy land of Pakistan no matter what you or I may feel about it! It is naive to say that all of this should be banned because in essence it will be a violation of the constitution (yes we do have one) to deny someone their right to practice their custom/practice/habit (whatever you want to call it).

    If magically (pun intended) jadoo or palmistry or any other superstitious practice was banned in Pakistan, please do advise us how you would enforce it in every household in the country? Would the police go about knocking on everyone’s door to put an X on the kala jadoo households or jail people innocently reading palms to have some fun?

    As I said before, you may not like something I practice, but constitutionally and morally you cannot deny me the practice of my ‘custom’ unless there is proof of harm to another human being!

  32. Akif Nizam says:
    December 15th, 2006 2:59 pm

    Islam believes in Jadoo, Evil Eye and Jinns. There are specific instructions by the Holy Prophet on how to get rid of the affects of Evil Eye and Jadoo. For Godssake, he himself was afflicted by it and it took for someone else to perform certain religious rites to cure him of it. Given all that, how can people say that Jadoo is not part of our customs, religion etc. It makes no difference what type of remedies are used to cure Jadoo, whether it’s a few prayers or slicing off the head of a black chicken. It’s the mindset that really matters, not the method.

  33. Tahir says:
    December 16th, 2006 2:55 am

    Being a muslim we should believe only on Allah and beilieve that never can happened without His permission.This is for our belief that no one can do any thing either he is pir Amil or any one.There is no power in kala jadu tawez and any dum.Second for honour of women if any one found to disgrace her should be prisioned,killed and any maximum action can be taken against him at every cost however he/they are week or powerful personality,No compromise and No favour to him.

  34. Tahir says:
    December 16th, 2006 3:07 am

    I am surprised that educated peoples have believe in kala jado tawez and other type of act by pious.I am surprised that if anyone found thieft in his house he never blame to jinn,Jin created with Fire how it is possible that jinn controlled over man or women and ride on him.can a man and a woman can bear jinn weight.There are many famous personality fomoused with the myth of controll over supernatuaral power had died and no one can save them .Allah knows about that a tinny drop of water can break fast how He does not know that His beloved creator in trouble who has powered to disturb his earth.Most powerful jinn and power is satan and we all know that Satan cant do any thing but whisper in your ear and you act as per his desire leave all ways of satan he scared you with his follow and you scared and do all which not ordered by Allah but the desire of Satan ,Kala Jado,dum tawez all the shape of these,there is no proff of any success of jado and remedies of jadu in whole life of Holy Prophet And His Campanion.

  35. Shah says:
    December 16th, 2006 4:10 am

    @zamanov
    I dint deny in any manner that these are not practised, but YES, they need to be suppressed, which seemingly you do not agree to.
    I also did not deny the existence of the constitution, in-fact I feel that we only accept the constitution if it suits us, otherwise reject it. This is a problem of the educated people of Pakistan.
    But I don’t know which constitution you are talking about, maybe the American. As in ours, nothing can be implemented contrary to the Quran and Sunnah (if laws are not respected/enforced, that’s another matter, but a detailed law structure is there)! This being another matter, but if even the Act of India 1935 is implemented fairly in its purity, the society would be a paradise, but this “educated eliteâ€

  36. Shah says:
    December 16th, 2006 4:12 am

    Now for those innocent people who like to “have some funâ€

  37. British Pakistani says:
    December 16th, 2006 8:21 am

    I think the ONLY solution to DECREASE such crazy acts is EDUCATION, people need to be educated

  38. zamanov says:
    December 16th, 2006 12:10 pm

    @Shah saheb,

    First let me make it clear that in no way am I condoning or approving of superstitious practices. What I am saying is that it is futile to try to police certain “stupid” or “jahalat bharee” practices unless it can be proven in a court of law that these caused harm to another human being. Since proving such harm would be impossible therefore in the interest of freedom of religion and expression you cannot deny someone their right to believe in any deity or practice.
    Like you, I abhor such practices and I am fully aware of the Holy QUran mentioning these acts and God’s warning against them. My point is simply that you cannot legislate or police what people believe in no matter how repugnant their practice to you or I. The only time the state can come in is when there is proof of harm to an individual or society at large.

    As far as your divine statement of no law can be made against the Holy QUran or Sunnah, no where have I suggested that a law be made to ALLOW the practice of jaado tona, palmistry, taweez, etc! In fact if you or someone else can come up with an enforecable solution to stop a person sitting in his home from reading a ‘mantar’ to harm his neighbor, obtaining a taweez to curse his wife, or people going to palmists/astrologers/sanyasi babas then please do enlighten me.

    Constitutionally, there is freedom to practice religion in Pakistan(Article 20). If a non-Muslim Pakistani believes in jaadoo or palmistry or fire worshipping then who am I or you to disallow him/her the right to practice that no matter what Muslims believe in? Will you have the police giving certificates to non-Muslims that its OK for them to practice it but not for a certified Muslim? I hope you see where this is leading…..

  39. December 16th, 2006 12:44 pm

    [...] a tale of fiction and one of the real world. [...]

  40. zamanov says:
    December 16th, 2006 12:55 pm

    @Shah

    Last post…
    Please also point me to the law/s your refer to in this statement:
    “What the laws target is open advertising of it, and the people who are sitting in specialized shops practising it, and that’s it! With this, the State can get to the people claiming to be the â€

  41. Ghalib says:
    December 16th, 2006 11:43 pm

    [quote comment="16489"][quote comment="16474"]shud be hanged in public no mercy all all!
    [/quote]
    What is this fetish with hanging people, chopping hands, beheading. Is that the only solution we have for every problem in the world![/quote]
    yes coz one has to make them an example!!!!
    its FETISH to juss discuss the problem its time to act!

  42. January 3rd, 2007 8:07 pm

    [...] This is a painful story. So, if you are weak of stomach, stop reading. This is not a story about religion or about custom or about culture. It is a story about jahaalat… nirri jahalat. The roots of this are exactly the same as the roots of our earlier post about how Shagufta got killed. According to the Daily Times (4 January, 2006): Armed men cut off the ears and nose of a man who married a woman from their tribe against their will, after he and his family refused to hand her over, police said on Wednesday. The attackers also chopped off the ears of the man’s brother, while severing his mother’s hand in the latest reported “honourâ€

  43. Sajaz says:
    January 18th, 2007 9:53 am

    It happened to one of my relative who did court marriage with a girl but that girl relatives went in police station and logged complaint against that person and police arrested both husband and wife and took them to police station where they locked up the husband in jail and took his wife to a private house where whole night all policemen,and officers raped her there.
    Next day they beat the husband and asked him to pay RS5 lakh to get the release of himself and his wife.
    He could not managed the money but with the influence of some people they both were released from jailed but shifted to unknown city now as the matter was on everyone’s mouth.

    Shame on you policemen

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