Adil Najam
This picture is carried today by both Dawn and Daily Times. Dawn’s title is “Still Heroes” and the caption reads: “Bronze statues of Quaid-i-Azam, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan and Allama Iqbal put on display at the Science and Technology Expo-2007 being held at National Memorial Museum in Shakarparian in Islamabad.”
A visit to the Museum is on the top of my ‘To Do’ list when I return to Islamabad end of the month. I hope they are still there.
My first thought on looking at the picture was to note how both Jinnah and Iqbal are wearing suits here (this penchant of ours - me included - to dress up these guys in the garbs of our desires has been has been quite a remarkable historical see-saw!). My second thought was to wonder what the folks at Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa might have to say - or do - about this. I hope there is significant security against vandalism here.
But even more than that, I wonder what these three men are sitting there thinking about what is happening today in the country they helped conceive. Late at night when the museum is closed and the statues come alive and walk about, what is it that they sit together and talk about?
Jabir. No, I don’t and don’t care for why the Washington Monument is the way it is. Please stick to the topic. We are talking about Pakistan
Ajeeb dhakkan Insaan ho. Was that not you who asked:
Freemasons, yeah sure… where is the proof (and, please, PROOF… not some propaganda drivel claiming it is so because ..
and when he gives proof then you react like a girl that “I don’t care”.
Jabir, apply Imam Shafa’ai’s golden quote and ignore him. =)
bassssssss.
what would Mulla Nasr-uddin say ? besides chuppppp!
perhaps (khuda) Hafiz Hussain Ahmed can en-lighten our moods !!
Jabir. No, I don’t and don’t care for why the Washington Monument is the way it is. Please stick to the topic. We are talking about Pakistan.
And, pleeeeeese don’t offer sophmoric ‘Twilight Zone’ drivel about next asking why there is a pyramid on the US currency notes… the type of people who dream up these conspiracy theories are the same retards who see Muslims behind everything that goes wrong with the world… the mullahs of the west are no better than the mullahs of the east.. that is not evidence that is rumors and fear-mongering…. just because someone says it in a silly TV show does not make it evidence….
Now for real evidence… maybe official documents, copies for letters, photographs, taped conversations…. since you were so quick to demean and condemn someone, I assuem as a good Muslim you have REAL evidence … otherwise, what is the punishment for false accusations…. stoning, no?
USMAN Lets see how you measure up for the ‘PROOF’. Have you seen Washington monument? Can you explain what it represents?
jabir Khan, is everything you like a conspiracy of the West…. they must really dislike you that they are always and only thinking about you and your destruction! Freemasons, yeah sure… where is the proof (and, please, PROOF… not some propaganda drivel claiming it is so because they say so!)…. the amount of slander and baseless rumor mongering here is just phenomenal
[quote]By the way, if you call pakistani majlis e shura of bhutto era zani and sharabi and deviant, I’ll be interested to know what you think of the men who drafted the Islamic Sharia during the Ummayad Dynasty.[/quote]
What has this got to do with what we are discussing here? What we are discussing is rights of people and not who is right theologically. You are a lawyer, you should understand the difference.
[quote]Chiniot, my naive friend, is the main stronghold of Qadianis in Pakistan and perhaps the world. Hence my recommendation. [/quote]
Is that so? And how is it naive to ask how is it related to our discussion? More and more I am convinced you are repeating what you have heard from Mullahs instead of talking with reason like a lawyer. Do you really expect people to go to far off places every time they discuss something with you on the Internet?
[quote]About this law’s being a definition of muslim and non muslim: There’s something we call precedence in law. Rulings and laws such as this become a reference guide in deriving the definition or building through negation a description of something. This law clearly defines the Qadiani religion as different from islam, consequentially Qadianis different from muslims.[/quote]
Despite being a lawyer, you must clarify something and please double check with your teacher..this law *does not* seek to define who is a Muslim. There isn’t a definition in this law that you can take and use in general. This law does not even seek to comprehensively define who a non-Muslim is. This law only targets a particular group, against the human right norms, and forces them to stop professing their peaceful beliefs under the pain of punishment thus violating their human rights seriously. Beliefs are personal matters and no assemblies or majorities are allowed to interfere in peaceful beliefs of people. How is it an alien concept for you studying at Loyola and living in US beggars belief. Ever heard of bill of rights? What about concept of civil liberties? Are you willing to be dictated by majority if they claim that your concept of God is a plagiarism of their concept of god and that you should be stopped from believing in the same god as there is a danger of confusing with the concept of god as they believe?
I feel its either of two things here;
1. You know that you are on weak ground and hence deliberately using vague, hastily generalised and incorrect statements, or
2. You are a bad lawyer. :)
@Nazir: Read Roohany Khazaen and increase your knowledge before blaming others.
Now don’t ask another question “What is Roohany Khazaen?”.
[quote] Qadianis can practice qadianiat all they want,[/quote]
What is Qadiniat? I asked you before but you have avoided the question. Is it what they (Qadianis) decide or is it what you decide for them and impose on them using the above law? In effect ‘qadianiat’ is something that you define for them and force them to follow. The absurdity of this is so obvious but can you give another example in recent history when a state makes up a “religion� and forces a section of the society to follow it and that section of the society very happily accept that? Religions are diving entities and people follow them because they believe (right or wrong) that it is what God expects them to do. No one to my knowledge does it due to any government forcing it upon them. You seem to be supporting Akber e Azam’s Deen–Illahi approach whereby government makes a set of beliefs and people are supposed to follow them. Anyone who does not see a problem in this has a problem…
[quote] just dont call it islam. It’s not islam.
[/quote]
Why not? If this is what their belief is then that is what their belief is. It’s their belief not yours. Again going back to US, how many times majority is allowed to dictate minority what they can call themselves or not and under the pain of punishment?
[quote]So did we declare, the group that you called zani and sharabi, were the most noted ulema of their time, and your parents perhaps (if you’re my age) voted for the Bhutto government which passed these laws.[/quote]
Again what has politics got to do with who is right religiously speaking? Religions are divine entities that people believe to be true (regardless of how many other people agree with that) and are not the domain of earthy assemblies. Politics is a completely different animal. Are you so naive to not understand the difference?
Do you believe your religion because an earthly assembly imposed on you or because you consider it to be divide and true? I sincerely hope it is the later and that is exactly the right what everyone else has.