Another Attack on Islamabad: 60+ Killed

Posted on September 20, 2008
Filed Under >A for [Pine]Apple, >Adil Najam, Law & Justice, Society
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Asma Mirza and Adil Najam

(New videos and pictures added).

At aftaar time, Marriott Hotel in Islamabad was attacked by an explosive truck. Reportedly it has totally destroyed the hotel. This was the second bomb blast at the hotel in less than a year, adds to the feeling that Islamabad is now a major target of these dastardly killers (here, here, here). The pictures (from BBC) tell part of the story. But only a part.

One should note that this was the biggest of but just one of three suicide bomb blasts in Pakistan. The other two were in the tribal areas of Pakistan where Pakistan military was targeted.

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These are yet more in the long string of attacks on Pakistan. A list so long that one has even lost a sense of how long it is!

Here is an incomplete list of only the ‘major’ suicide attacks on Pakistan this year (from The News):

More than 1,200 people have been killed in attacks, most of them suicide bombings blasts, in the past year. Here is a list of major attacks since the start of 2008:

January 10: Sixteen police and four civilians killed in a suicide bomb attack on police outside the high court in the city of Lahore.
January 14: Bomb kills 10 people at a crowded street market in Karachi.
February 9: Suicide bomber kills 25 people at opposition election rally in the northwestern town of Charsadda.
February 16: Suicide car bomber strikes a rally by party of slain former premier Benazir Bhutto in the northwestern tribal town of Parachinar, killing 37.
February 22: Roadside bomb hits wedding party in northern Swat, killing at least 14 people.
February 25: Suicide bomber kills army surgeon general Lieutenant General Mushtaq Baig and seven other people in Rawalpindi.
February 29: A suicide bomber kills 44 people in Mingora, the main town in the troubled Swat valley, during the funeral of three policemen killed by a roadside bomb earlier in the day.
March 2: Suicide bomber kills 43 at a meeting of anti-militant tribal elders in the northwestern district of Darra Adam Khel.
March 4: Two suicide bombers attack Pakistan Naval War College in Lahore, killing five people and wounding 19.
March 10: Suicide attackers detonate two huge truck bombs in Lahore, killing 26 people and partly demolishing the Federal Investigation Agency building in the city.
March 15: Bomb blast at Italian restaurant in Islamabad kills a Turkish woman and wounds 10 others, including four agents from the US Federal Bureau of Investigation.
May 19: Suicide bomber kills 13 at an army bakery in the northwestern town of Mardan.
July 2: Suicide car bomb outside the Danish embassy in Islamabad kills eight people.
July 6: Suicide bomber kills 15 people in an attack on police in Islamabad during a rally to mark the anniversary of an army raid on the radical Red Mosque.
August 12: Roadside bomb rips through Pakistan air force bus in Peshawar, killing 13.
August 19: Suicide bomber kills 23 people at a hospital in northwestern town of Dera Ismail Khan.
August 21: Twin suicide attacks kill at least 57 people outside Pakistan’s main arms factory in Wah, near Islamabad.
August 28: A bomb attack targeting policemen kill 10 people in the northwest garrison town of Bannu near the Afghan border.
September 3: Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani escapes an apparent assassination attempt when two shots hit his motorcade, just three days before the country’s presidential election.
September 6: Suicide bomber kills 33 people at a security checkpoint near Peshawar, the capital of North West Frontier Province.
September 11: Suspected militants hurl grenades and fire into a mosque in Peshawar killing at least 20 worshippers.
September 20: A suspected suicide attack outside the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad killing at least 40 people, with more feared trapped inside the building.

According to police sources, the attacking truck was carrying 1000 KG (1 Ton) of explosives. Causing massive damage and causalities. Supposedly F-5 is one of the most secure area of Islamabad. 40+ killed in this havoc and many injured.The security was even tighter today than usual because the new President, Asif Ali Zardari, was making his first address to the parliament. Some wonder how related this was to what he had to say there:

The ones killed include the drivers who were waiting outside in parking lot and the large number of security guards. Also note, just next to Marriott there is a bus stop as well and a queue of taxis wait there. Emergency declared in all hospitals.Gas pipelines was exploded in the process causing more damage. Building nearby such as Balochistan House, Gulshan e Jinnah (living apartments for federal govt. employees) badly affected as well.

According to the news analysts as seen reporting on TV, it can be one of the biggest explosion seen in Pakistan’s history. Analyst Najam Sethi aptly said, “This is 9/11 of Pakistan“.

220 Comments on “Another Attack on Islamabad: 60+ Killed”

  1. jk says:
    September 20th, 2008 12:25 pm

    I heard about this this morning and my heart sunk.

    This is unbelievable.

    State of emergency should be declared and all vehicles should be checked. Curfews and everything.

    Pakistan is at war.

  2. Rehman says:
    September 20th, 2008 12:26 pm

    As if situation was not very grave already;

    Pak tops list of countries in number of suicide bombing deaths

    Lahore, Sept 15 : Pakistan tops the list of countries as far as the number of deaths in suicide bombings during the first eight months of the year is concerned, figures compiled by an elite intelligence agency have said.

    http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-22482.html

  3. September 20th, 2008 12:32 pm

    A very sad moment. Explosives load must be very very huge.
    But questions are:
    1.How such explosive vehicles were rambling through Pakistan’s most high security zone? Wecan’t stop suicide bombings but does that mean we can’t even trace these truckloads of death?
    2.Mr.Sadruddin Hashwani,the owner of The Hashoo group which owns Pearl Continental and marriot Hotels in Pakistan, and an upcoming chain of three star hotels, Hotel One. just expressed his views in words that I am not concerned about the collapse of my hotel etc but I am deeply saddened by the losss of my hotel staff.

    Would anyone at the helm of affairs is so concerned about the people they are ruling?

  4. BUNTY says:
    September 20th, 2008 12:44 pm

    The blast wave rocked my entire house just 5kms away shaking windows and feeling like an earthquake! Easily 800 – 1000kgs in a small truck! The guards at the Hotel fired at the van when it rammed into the barrier leading to the lobby! the truck came to a halt and caught fire. 15 seconds later it exploded with massive intensity reminding me of the suicide blast outside the Egyptian Embassy in the Diplomatic Enclave in Islamabad in 1995! The poor souls, mostly private guards, drivers and valet attendants who stood near the entrance were incinerated! Total tally of death by the morning could rise to 150 people dead and around 200 injured! Marriott Hotel, once an icon of Islamabad, stands totally gutted due to the blast and the fire that followed. Please pray for the poor souls who always become the victim of such mindless acts of violence an terror!

  5. adeel says:
    September 20th, 2008 1:06 pm

    This is unprecedented. It’s the last straw. Pakistan must go all over after the culprits now.

  6. ASAD says:
    September 20th, 2008 1:13 pm

    One has no words of grief to express for this. Everyone seems to be out to kill Pakistanis. We are dying needlessly in this American war of terror and then the Americans also attack us themseleves. Is Pakistani life really that worthless!

  7. Hina says:
    September 20th, 2008 1:24 pm

    Yet another suicide attack…. Grief and Sadness has left me a long time ago..Shame, utter and total Sharam fills my heart at what my homeland has become..what my contrymen and women are subjected to

  8. ASAD says:
    September 20th, 2008 1:28 pm

    The list of attacks you have added is really disturbing. More than a thousand dead already. And I think there are many more not n your list. But if 1000 dead is not war then what is war!!!!!!!

  9. Ali says:
    September 20th, 2008 1:54 pm

    There comes a point where the violence is too much. These people have no shame. It is time for Civil War.

  10. Rasheed says:
    September 20th, 2008 2:01 pm

    A massive overhaul of Pakistan’s policy in terms of the extent of involvement in America’s war is needed, otherwise Pakistan will NOT survive as a nation on the world map, or, at the very least, will be relegated to mere nominal existence like Afghanistan. Voices critical of opinions held by, or strategies advocated by, Pakistan’s or America’s elites are suppressed and not heeded. Perhaps this event will open a few eyes of Pakistan’s so-called educated elites. Revolutionary steps need to be taken, and in the words of America’s own military leader, “we can’t kill our way to victory”. If America can’t, how can Pakistan? We’ll have to deal with the “enemy”, and even before that, figure out WHO our real enemies are, and WHO is really behind the Marriot attack. It’s not enough to say “Taliban”, even if they declare responsibility; I would suspect others far away – the same whom I suspect of involvement in 9/11; assassination of Lebanon’s Hariri; Pakistan’s B. Bhutto, etc. Just think who gains through all of this. Why would Muslims kill so many other Muslims during Ramadhan? Ask youself WHY??? Could someone tell how many Americans or Israelis died in this attack compared with how many Pakistanis died? And this is not Pakistan’s war. Don’t provoke America’s enemies who are determined because of whatever America did to them. That’s not our business, frankly. Live and let live. If you keep launching ill-advised, half-hearted and incomplete operations in FATA and keep killing people whom America calls terrorists, don’t be surprised if these attacks happen. They will continue and Pakistan would have to live with its new reality if she can’t afford change.

  11. BUNTY says:
    September 20th, 2008 2:02 pm

    I say high time to literally ”MOW” these country-less foreigners in Waziristan (the Mehsud’s, Maulvi’s, Mangal’s etc) corrupting our society with such acts of terror! Pakistan Army should step forward and do its job to ELIMINATE these criminals once and for all from our land! THIS IS INDEED THE LAST STRAW FOR PAKISTAN! LETS DRAW OUR BATTLE LINE RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW!

  12. auk says:
    September 20th, 2008 2:42 pm

    From CNN

    Pakistani Interior Minister Rehman Malik said authorities received a threat two days ago. “We had taken all security measures,” he said. “There was heavy security in the city.”

    This raises 2 questions. One, how long can we afford to trust our affairs into the hands of these retards? Two, how much longer can we afford to fight this American war, and let our house burn to ground? Bush has another few months in office, Pakistan as we know it may not survive until then. Here is a 3rd one. Is it possible for Pakistan to say “NO” to America, reverse Musharraf’s policies, and think of our National interests first?

  13. Ghulam Ali says:
    September 20th, 2008 2:44 pm

    I am glad you put the video of the Zardari speech. I do think that this was a message to Zardari and the new setup.

    What a royal mess Musharraf has left for us!!!!

  14. Umar says:
    September 20th, 2008 2:55 pm

    It is appalling to note that even after such carnage, there are those who insist, directly or indirectly, that the Taliban would simply pack up their bags and behave if we would simply stop the operations in the tribal area… nothing is further from the truth… this is a Frankenstein’s monster that has got out of hand, and no amount of negotiations or other non-military tactics would put the genie back in the bottle… as someone here said, it is time to MOW them into the dust, before they do the same to us…

  15. mohsin says:
    September 20th, 2008 3:01 pm

    its a tragic mommont ,its time to think seriously regarding security and foregin policy,, i request to president tht bring all together ,make a committe n invite all defence experts,ulemaas,leaders,journalists,economists,scientists,philosophers of pakistan under one roof and discuss the situation of pakistan and do some actions regarding security and re evaluate foregin policy ,, i condem such attacks and i request all tht plz support this govt. couse if it fails or something happens tht govt is dissolved thn it will be much difficult to recombine n protect pakista,,,ALLAH BLESS PAKISTAN AND PROCTECT

  16. Abbas says:
    September 20th, 2008 3:07 pm

    This report from BBC’s Owen Bennett Jones is worth reading to understand what is happening here:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7623097.stm

    —————————
    Turning to the Taleban in Pakistan

    US raids on Taleban and al-Qaeda targets in Pakistani territory have caused outrage in Pakistan. And that has added to the loathing that some people there have long felt for the way that the US conducts itself on the world stage, as Owen Bennett-Jones discovers.

    Many Pakistanis resent what they see as heavy-handed US tactics “I would rather live in the dark ages under the Taleban than be subservient to any foreign power.” The unexpected comment comes from an urbane, sophisticated and, I had always thought, Westernised Pashtun lawyer.

    He wears none of the badges of Islamic piety – a beard, for example – and he normally sports a navy blazer not the local shalwar kameez. He is a former minister with the Pakistan People’s Party, the most liberal in Pakistan.

    Rejecting the West

    The word liberal in the Pakistani context means modern, educated, secular rather than theocratic and, up until now at least, pro-Western.

    “You can’t mean it,” I protested. “Do you know what the Taleban were like in Afghanistan when they ran it, with compulsory prayers five times a day, do you want that?”

    “Look,” he said. “I can deal with Taleban, they are my own people. They come from here. I know them. “I will be able to get around them. But the Americans never. No way.”

    That is how badly the battle for hearts and minds is going in Pakistan. It could scarcely be worse.

    Taken aback by that conversation, I chatted about it with another senior Pakistani politician, a senator, again a well known liberal.

    “I agree with him,” he said. “Is there is no end to it? The Americans are now bombing Pakistani people. What are they doing here 12,000 miles away from home?”

    And he told me about his children, four boys.

    “I sent them to the UK for their education,” he said, “I spent all my money on it. They had five, six years in England at boarding schools, it was a crucial time of their lives, they were young.

    “They could have stayed and settled down there but they all choose not to. They didn’t want to. All four are living here in Pakistan and praying five times a day.

    Anti-Americanism in Pakistan has reached quite fantastic levels “I don’t pray five times a day,” he said. “They do. Why? Because you in the West have forced them away, forced them towards Islam. You have forced them out.”

    Again, I was taken aback. Apart from the familiar complaints about foreign policy, what had those boys seen in their English boarding school that they did not like?

    Drunkenness, I guess. Consumerism, maybe. Disrespect for the elderly always shocks Pakistanis, so perhaps that.

    I guess that seen through some young Pakistani eyes there are things we do that they do not want.

    Still, anti-Americanism in Pakistan has reached quite fantastic levels.

    There are now suicide bombs every few days and no-one doubts that the Taleban recruit, train and equip the bombers.

    After one recent suicide attack, the brother of one of the victims was quoted in the press.

    Did he blame the Taleban? He did not. “America is responsible for my brother’s death,” he said. “If the Americans went back home everything would be calm here.”

    There is, I think, universal agreement amongst Pakistanis that, if the US continues to rely so heavily on military firepower in Afghanistan, and increasingly in Pakistan too, then the Taleban will win.

    Preaching moderation

    And, in fact, elsewhere in the world, there are signs that the US is using much more subtle and maybe more effective tactics.

    The Taleban are winning friends at the expense of the US in Pakistan

    In a US base on the outskirts of Baghdad, for example, where captured insurgents are held, US taxpayers are paying the salaries of some heavily vetted Iraqi clerics who preach moderation.

    I met one of them recently. When he relaxes he mooches around in an England football shirt, when he is working he wears the long flowing, gold-edged robes denoting his clerical status.

    He told me about a session he had with a group of 20 recently detained Iraqi Takfiris.

    Takfiris are really the last word in intolerance. They believe that anyone who does not share their very rigid interpretation of Islam is an infidel and should be killed.

    The cleric described walking into the room where the Takfiris where waiting for him and offering the traditional greeting: “Salaam Aleikum”.

    The leader of the group responded by hurling his slippers into the cleric’s face.

    ‘With these guys you cannot let something like that go,” the cleric told me, “or you lose all authority.”

    ‘Battle of wits’

    The cleric looked the Takfiri leader in the eye and asked: “What did I just say to you?”

    “You said Salaam Aleikum,” the man replied.

    “And what does that signify?” asked the cleric.

    The Takfiri leader looked confused. “The word Salaam is one of the 99 names of Allah,” the cleric went on.

    “You have just thrown your slippers at Allah.” He then turned to the other 19 Takfiris. “This man is an infidel,” he said, “are you going to kill him?” He turned and left the room.

    That night, the guards woke the cleric at 3am and rushed him down to the detention centre.

    The Takfiri leader was huddled in the corner of the room shivering, his arms around his knees. “I didn’t mean to offend you. Please get me away from here. I think they are going to kill me,” he begged.

    “So, in just 12 hours,” the cleric concluded, “I dealt with the leader of some of the most hard-line people ever captured in Iraq.”

    “It’s a battle of wits,” I said. The cleric laughed. “Let’s see who wins.”

  17. MUSLIM says:
    September 20th, 2008 3:38 pm

    you have to realize why this is happening.

    The country is at war. The Americans attack our people and our leaders are all enemies of Islam. This is a battle for Muslims and sometimes people die in battles. The people who live in Islanabad or go to Marriot are not ordinary Muslims they go for alcohol and outside Masters.

    Inshallah the righteous will win and when we have Shariah law in Pakistan it will all be worth it

  18. Umar says:
    September 20th, 2008 3:39 pm

    I read the Owen Bennett-Jones article this morning too… it nicely sums up how so many Pakistanis let their anti-American sentiments cloud their judgment of the Taliban… Charlie’s Aunt could claim she is anti-American and go on a rampage and our people would not say a word against her… herein lies the crux of our problems today… one can only hope that after such carnage, our people would see the light of day and call a spade a spade and back the action against the Taliban… discussing tactics is one thing, as is opposing US violation of airspace, but it is really disappointing to see that so many of our compatriots oppose the essence of the action itself… in fact, the Pakistani liberal/left should take a leaf out of the right wing’s collaboration with the Americans in the 80′s… Hameed Gul, the hero of every right wing nut in Pakistan, defends his and other Generals’ actions in the 80′s by saying that if interests coincide, there is no harm in collaborating with anyone… it is time the right wing is given a taste of its own medicine… the former PPP minister in Owen Bennett-Jones’ article, and others of his ilk, who are liberal/secular/leftist but anti-American, should swallow a little pride and support the efforts to finish the Taliban, because in the long run it is worth it…

  19. auk says:
    September 20th, 2008 4:00 pm

    Umar, After 7 years of fighting this, do you know who the enemy is? Do you know which seminary the next bomber will come from? Do you know the source of more than a 1000kg of high explosives that was used here? I don’t think it came from Pakistan Army. Can you imagine zeolots going around the major cities in trucks loaded with high explosives and no one having a clue; until they strike.

    It is overly simplistic to assume that we can bomb these people out of existence. Sometimes, “discretion is the better part of valor”. It is also not a sign of weakness, or lack of our resolve. In this case, as you suggested, it is the tactics that need to change. We have to stop towing America’s line and stop this mad rush to death. The solution will only come from within, but there is no magic cure, and it will not happen overnight.

  20. Ibrahim says:
    September 20th, 2008 4:10 pm

    Allah will deal with those who committed this action. If the Taliban did it, then it goes to show what type of pressure they have been under from constant attacks on their homes from all four sides that they have become very irrational. May Allah relieve the difficulties of all Muslims.

    Looking at the Zardari speech and his pledge (for which he needs support) for fighting the “enemies”, a very interesting history prespective should be mentioned.

    There were bombings in Dublin, Ireland in 1970′s precisely when the Irish parliment was contemplating severe/unjust laws to combat terror. But, such laws were difficult to pass for the government until the news of the bombings spread, the IRA was blamed and lo and behold, the laws were passed! Later, it was found that this was a conpiracy by the British intelligence on the behalf of the Loyalists.

    Today’s bombing surely will give Zardari more support than before.

  21. Shayan says:
    September 20th, 2008 4:12 pm

    Come on people! After so many of our own have died, how can you still claim that this is America’s war. This is our war. After all the soldiers and civilians who have lost their lives, this is personal. It is not America that is orchestrating these bomb blasts, it is the Taliban. Channel your anger at them.

    And remember that if we had refused to root out these terrorists in 2001 and allowed them to carry out attacks on other countries from our soil, the UN would have been just as justified, as it was with Afghanistan, to sanction the use of military force against Pakistan.

    These terrorists are the result of years of ISI machinations in Afghanistan and Kashmir. These are not America’s mistakes coming to haunt us but our own chickens coming home to roost.

  22. ASAD says:
    September 20th, 2008 4:22 pm

    Ibrahim, please stop apologizing for the Taliban: “If the Taliban did it, then it goes to show what type of pressure they have been under from constant attacks on their homes from all four sides that they have become very irrational.”

    For Allah’s sake, give us a break, yaar!

    So, your Taliban have to go out and spill the blood of other Muslims because they have become ‘irrational’… what sort of a sick cult are these Talibans that each day they must kill a few Muslims to keep their “eeman taaza”!

  23. Bushra Ali says:
    September 20th, 2008 4:29 pm

    Ibrahim, your comment mocks at the innocent people, mostly Muslims, who were murdered brutally today. If you do not have the ability to sympathize with them, at least do not mock their death.

  24. Daud says:
    September 20th, 2008 4:35 pm

    This guy “Muslim” and Ibrahim and the comments they left show why we keep having these murders everyday. It is attitudes like these that sustain and support these enemies of Pakistan.

  25. Umar says:
    September 20th, 2008 4:36 pm

    auk…

    I would beg to differ… we haven’t been “fighting” for seven years… for seven years, we have been dillydallying and twiddling our thumbs, insisting that the Pakistani Taliban are different from the Afghan Taliban and Al-Qaeda, and signing so-called peace deals and truces with them… for all his faults, it was Rehman Malik who came out and said that they were one and the same… before anyone attacks me for being a fan of his, please remember my “for all his faults” comment… also, for much of those seven years, we had the MMA in Peshawar and the military regime in Islamabad, both of whom had a vested interest in letting the Pakistani Taliban get away with it… for all their faults, I see the ANP-PPP combine in the province and the center as the only combine that can work if we are to tackle this menace… again, for all their faults, I would say the ANP-PPP can at least be trusted for having their hearts in the right place… in a way, the surge in suicide attacks can be attributed for the fact that for once, the government and even the new army chief are serious…

    I agree that this menace has spread so much that it is very difficult to say where the next bomber is going to come from, but again, I would differ on it being impossible… there may be hundreds of maddrassas in Pakistan, but hundreds still constitute a finite number… the militant bosses who have been on the ISI payroll for so long are also known entities, as are the so-called jihad camps the ISI has run for so long… there is plenty that can be done about them to address the “not knowing where the next bomber is from” problem… notice please that I said “address” and not “eliminate”…

    Since you imply alternate strategies, please share them here… while I agree that change needs to come from within and it will not happen overnight, I’m afraid I can’t support an end to the operations against the Taliban simply because there is a cliche that says discretion is the better part of valor… seven years of discretion, and three decades of support for these killers is why they are now rampaging through our country… simply because our interests at this time coincide with the Americans does not mean we are towing their line… this perception needs to be corrected…

  26. Neena says:
    September 20th, 2008 4:49 pm

    My heart goes out to all the s and their families who are affected by this .

    Ibrahim: LOL! don

  27. Ibrahim says:
    September 20th, 2008 4:59 pm

    People, where did I justify the action?! And, where did I mock those who died? Didn’t I ask Allah to relieve the difficulties of all Muslims? I mean, at least, make some sense. If what I mentioned seems like a justification to you people, then I don’t have a cure for your mentality.

    I’ve provided a reason of why Taliban would end up doing such an action as well. This isn’t a justification. Justification would’ve been priasing or ignoring this action while giving a reason for it. I’m trying to show both sides. Isn’t it the motto of the new and improved “pakistaniat” to be balanced and try to analyze all sides? Look at both sides and understand the issue.

    A better argument would’ve been to try to dismantle the notion of conspiracy I mentioned. You people are of little intelligence, by the way.

  28. Daud says:
    September 20th, 2008 5:06 pm

    Ibrahim, yes we are all stupid and you and these Taliban are the ones who have intelligent as well as the truth in your command!

    May whoever has committed thsi suicide bombing burn in hell! How about your saying amen to that!

  29. meengla says:
    September 20th, 2008 5:16 pm

    @Umar says: September 20th, 2008 4:36 pm

    Well said! Thank you.

  30. D_a_n says:
    September 20th, 2008 5:16 pm

    @ Muslim…

    so as you say all this is ‘worth it’ to establish Sharia Law in Pakistan…you Pathetic sick little man…the people who dies were mostly poor people…security guards and drivers…I hope their families curse you and your for eternity for your glee in their darkest hour….

    I wonder why the Prophet (PBUH) never resorted to such things to establish Allah’s Laws on Earth…but then you people never put much stock in what the Prophet (PBUH) did…

    @Ibrahim…

    so the attacks on the Taliban have made them desperate…so this makes them feast on the blood of more Muslims…

    please spare us this pathetic drivel…and lets admit once and for all that you are an evil TAKFEERI who calls for the slaughter of me and many more innocents on a daily basis on this forum….just admit that and all else can be discussed in that context…

    you sit and clap for the people who have made war on my home..my land my kin and my country….

    I seethe with rage as I write this…..I come here and find self hating salafi Takfeeri’s like you…people who thought that staying enslaved to the Hindu was a good idea in 1947 blind followers of that Hindu kay haathon bika hua Mullah Maudoodi….

    and you call US people of little intelligence…..your intellectual bankruptcy is turning my stomach….

    my only regret is that I am no longer amongst those brave men of honour who are hunting your kinds in the hills of swat and bajaur…that is indeed my singular regret at this stage…..so unfortunately I am forced to carry out my holy struggle this way…

  31. auk says:
    September 20th, 2008 5:32 pm

    Umar, I am not an expert at explosives, but before I suggest anything, let me say that this bombing is different in scale than anything we have seen so far. If that is the case, the enemy has graduated and has taken this war to the next level. It is for the experts to decide, but I wonder how some Taliban are capable of handling such an act, and picking such sensitive targets at will.

    I can think of 3 things for now. America has to stop attacking targets inside Pakistan. If American Intelligence has credible evidence, they better share it with Pakistan, and only Pakistani troops should be allowed to target these elements inside its territory. Two, there are saner elements inside FATA, and our strategy should be covert more than overt. Isolate the enemy inside these regions by cooperating with the local population, and pick them up one by one. There are a lot of local Maliks who have been killed for siding with the government. There are about half a million people who have been rendered homeless in Bajaur alone as a result of the recent operations there. These folks are no different than you and me, trying to live peaceful lives. Lets use them to identify the enemy. Three, we have to purge the madrassahs, and this will be a long arduous process. Every single Madrassah from which a bomber comes from has to pay the price, by putting their leaders in isolated cells for life, no questions asked. I am amazed as to why we haven’t seen a single conviction in this regard while all of this has been going on. Even if a madrassah teaches hatred, put these so called Maulvis behind bars, irrespective of whose government it is in Pakhtunkhwa or whichever part of the country they are in. If this fills up the jails, then so be it. We can build more jails. Peace yes, but peace on our terms, and not their.

  32. Umar says:
    September 20th, 2008 6:10 pm

    auk…

    Since they’ve already killed off the pro-government Maliks, I don’t see how any “covert” attempts at isolating them will work… also, they cannot unfortunately be picked off one at a time because of their cowardly habit of hiding amongst innocent civilians…

    I agree with your suggestion of using the local population against them somehow… despite the gloom, I feel that in recent times there has been some heartening news, in that there were several reports of locals turning against the Taliban and in a few instances driving them out… however, the Taliban’s cowardice in hiding among civilians when attacked complicates this approach…

    I agree with most of the rest of what you say, in particular about the purging of the maddrassas… too bad we are so beholden to the evil Saudis for oil that no government will undertake such a task…

    As for the ton of explosives, there is an institution which fostered these killers for years… something suggests they are still not completely on board, despite the posturing of the new chief… there is an article in the Daily Times by Rafia Zakaria that suggests that another coup could be around the corner, and such attacks may fit in very nicely for that to happen… it is a complicated world we live in for sure…

    http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20089\20\story_20-9-2008_pg3_5

  33. Rahul says:
    September 20th, 2008 6:11 pm

    The attack on the Marriot hotel is one of the bloodiest terror acts. I am an Indian, far away from Islamabad, but I still feel the pain. I hope

  34. Ibrahim says:
    September 20th, 2008 6:31 pm

    Ameen! Because killing of innocent is haram in the shariah! However, Allah reserve the right of forgiving the Muslims if they committed the act and Muslims don’t burn in hell forever. As I said you don’t understand my position nor that of people like me because you guys are blinded by the Mullah bashing culture.

    May Allah destroy the secularists! Can you say ameen to that? I hope so!

    D_a_n, you are too stupid to be talked with. And, please for once try to write a response to me where you actually try to refute what I write and without mentioning “hazart-e-Ali” or “hazart-e-Imam Hussien”, my shia friend!

  35. Umar says:
    September 20th, 2008 6:35 pm

    Rahul…

    Amen to all you said! Thanks for stopping by!

  36. Ruchit says:
    September 20th, 2008 6:53 pm

    The marriott blast is one of the biggest attact we have ever heard or seen in past yrs.

    It is very surprising to hear in the news that despite TOP LEVEL SECIRITY, a truck driver managed to reached at the boundary of hotel. Sorry to say, but if this is the security, then you can say in other words that security level is 0% which has ended with a blast killing several innocent people.

    Ask a question yourself, if this is the security which u were trusting, who is going to trust the security NOW. There will be a question asked everytime that since this security level is not enough…what next ?? What steps to be taken??

    I was more surprised to see in news tonight, one official advised the news correspondant that they do not have a single “SCANNER” to scan the vehicle. This is ofcourse a lacking aspect which needs to be rectified immediately.

    May god give strength to those whose loved ones are no more and help the families of injured people to come up with this disaster.

    Are we alive to see these kind of news every day,week or month? We donot have any personal relation with those people who are dead, but we all have a heart to feel the pains, we all have the mind to unite and we all have determination to fight.

  37. ShahidnUSA says:
    September 20th, 2008 7:34 pm

    No security can stop this.
    This cancer is inside your body.
    How are you going to remove this? Major surgery? But then you
    will be killing your own people.
    This cancer was let to proliferate and you were sleeping and procrastinating and praying as it will go away by itself.

    Hope this cancer is benign and can be treated.

  38. jk says:
    September 20th, 2008 7:41 pm

    Ibrahim wrote: “May Allah destroy the secularists! Can you say ameen to that? I hope so!”

    No, I can’t say ameen to that. I can say Ameen to, “let there be peace on earth for all”.

    A secularist is someone who believes that religion should be excluded from government and education. That is no reason to be destroyed. A person who should be destroyed is one who commits acts like the one that happened at the hotel bombing.

    Ibrahim, why do you support so much violence? Destroy this and destroy that. This will give you heart troubles because of all this tension.

  39. jk says:
    September 20th, 2008 8:00 pm

    ShahidnUSA > The situation seems hopelessly grim. Pakistan needs a strong Defibrillator but who is there to apply it?

    I feel very disheartened especially because the common man in Pakistan does not have the tools to make things right.

    In my opinion, people are lacking the basics that are needed for a democratic society to exist. The tools that they need are free thinking, ability to reason, and freedom from hatred. A basic wisdom is missing.Groups can be emotionally charged at the whim of a charismatic person and steered towards fighting each other on the basis of thoughts and beliefs. While this exists in the building blocks of our society, then the nation can not stand.

    Outside threats and threats from within have torn out the very essence of what it means to be a nation.

    We can say that we can make schools for all people. Schools that will educate children and teach them tolerance and ability to reason and to make wise decisions. Doing just that will cause great backlash from many people who oppose schooling but even if we are able to do it, it seems as if it is too late. The challenges are already knocking on our door. No, actually the challenges have broken down the door and staring us down. We may already be too late.

  40. Razi says:
    September 20th, 2008 8:53 pm

    A sad sad day in the history of this country. Yet more precious lives lost for some phantom reason.

    We have yet to see a unified condemnation of suicide bombings by the Ulema and religious leaders. In fact it is sad that some of them have even showed sympathy towards it. They MUST raise there voices together against this so called shortcut to Jannah. Islam does not teach hurting anyone let alone your own brethren. Similarly the government must open multiple fronts (not just military) to tackle this scourge of our times. The Media too must play its role in educating the masses that cutting ones own wrist is not the solution.

    Our prayers for those who lost their lives and May Allah give strength to their families. Ameen.

  41. same says:
    September 20th, 2008 8:55 pm

    To all the mullahs: your islam starts with suppressing and hiding the women and ends with suppressing and hiding the women – this is what shariat means to you – okay I missed one thing – you also add the beard as a pillar of shariat.
    To all the seculars: praying 5 times a day, keeping fast, and giving zakat does not make anyone a mullah or extremist!
    We have forgotten the basic things. forget about bringing a huge revolution or anything – just get to the basics. Stop dreaming big, start small – this will ensure a solid foundation.

  42. D_a_n says:
    September 20th, 2008 9:31 pm

    @ Ibrahim…

    Gee Sir…you advocate the murder of innocents and I am the stupid one…!

    Also, I am a very much a Sunni…and Hazrat-e-Ali (RA) and Hazrat-e-Hussain (RA) belong to me as well…

    and It was hard to notice the contempt in your voice when you referred to me as ‘my shia friend’ …your bigotry against fellow Muslims is verey much on display….what you have done is not show that you are against my views…but you showed that you do not find me credible because I am a shia…again….Im not ane even if I was…that should not have been an issue…

    I have had issues with others on this forum before and yet no one has sunk to this pathetic gali-mohalla type remark before

    so congratulations Ibrahim…you just set a new low here…
    cherish the moment sir!

  43. sidhas says:
    September 20th, 2008 9:41 pm

    Razi,

    I agree with you. The most defeaning is the silence of Ullema and religious group. Some of the openly condone terror practice and most of them probably are confused as to whom to support. This is level of their intellect and character. There only few who condemn terror.

    Another group whose role should be explored is the role of Muslims and Pakistanis in America. Their role is no better then religious class.

  44. rhmayo says:
    September 20th, 2008 10:09 pm

    While no one wishes this on any country why is the learned protectors of Islam not stepping out to condemn this. How can this be part of acceptable code of conduct for the propagation of Islamic values? It is time that someone tries to stop the hijacking of religious thought and values to become fellow travellers to this barbarism

  45. Umar Shah says:
    September 20th, 2008 10:15 pm

    A response from the Pakistani Govt, equivalent to what the US did after 9/11 is needed. These terrorists destroying our country need to be blasted out of their holes in FATA and Swat and wherever else they are breeding by govt., military and whoever is in charge. Until we stop the apeasment policy towards these people they will not stop. Talking to them or bringing them to the negotiating table is meaningless. The only language they understand is of the danda. Regardless of who started what we are here now, this is a real problem and if Pakistan is to survive, people who poison other’s minds into doing something like this have to be eliminated without mercy. And shame on Zardari for bringing up Benazir’s name even on this outrageous occasion in his address to the nation. PPP needs to run the country and not just their party or petty interests if they want to differentiate themselves from the previous rulers. So many innocent people have died, nobody wants to hear about Benazir or how she died. If this germ is not killed, many more mothers like Benazir will perish and so will our future generations. May the souls of those who died today in Islamabad rest in peace and their blood be avenged.

  46. Salman Pindi Wala says:
    September 20th, 2008 10:23 pm

    The tactics and technology being used by these terrorists is clearly evident that some very powerful organization is behind them. The whole nation knows the financial, technical and mental capacities of our brothers in tribal areas; they simply can not do what we have seen in this blast and blasts in the recent past.

    The so called “Taliban” movement is being projected by international media labeling them as “Islamic hardliners”, “Islamic terrorists” etc. but we know the actual situation. If you have visited any of the madrasas, most of the students there don’t even have the courage to speak and yet they are tagged as militants. A few of these “Talibans” when arrested by authorities revealed that they have never been to any madrasas and they are being paid wages by some “unknown” persons; Also, none of their leaders are actually Maulvi or Mullah. Of course, the frontline terrorists are, unfortunately, nationals; but who is providing technological and material support? who is very cleverly brainwashing innocent young boys to be used as human bombs? where is the supply line of massive detonators and explosives? The answers to these questions are very obvious; if someone see with open eyes

  47. coldrain says:
    September 20th, 2008 11:22 pm

    One of the scary things that you realize from this incident is, whos protecting us ? The elite and influentials of the country can hardly save their own lives. Does the government machinery have the capability to provide security, even in such an organized city as Islamabad ? Probably not.

    However, it is also extremely important not to be disheartened by this incident. We must not lose hope in Pakistan. A lot of comments may be made by outsiders about how we deserve this blah blah….those are uneducated people whose views are clouded by their inner prejudices.

    Pakistanis must start thinking of solutions, and must begin acting to stabilize the country. God willing, there will be a way out of this.

  48. meengla says:
    September 20th, 2008 11:47 pm

    To me the ‘way out’ is a two-pronged strategy:
    1) In a grand meeting of all political, civil, military leadership, a public declaration that, because United States jeopardised Pakistan’s own war on Sept. 3, 2008, Pakistan is no longer going to cooperate with the States in its War Against Terrorism.
    2) The second prong is equally, if not more important: Keep India at bay by pointing a few ‘strategic weopons’ and divert almost all standing/reserve forces to crush to pulp the mullah-led violence in Pakistan.
    I advocate #1 because, in my opinion, Musharraf failed miserably in ‘selling’ this war as Pakistan’s own war. But with a public decleration and implementation (e.g. No more ‘renderings’ to Gitmo) it could be a better sell in Pakistan. As @JK says below, the chicken are coming home to roost and 9/11 only hastened their march (or flight) back home.
    I am hoping that, if America is sincere to crush Al-Qaida/Taliban, then no sanctions would be imposed because of #1. But if there are sanctions then better ‘eat grass’–which Pakistanis -CAN- do if united then to bleed to death.

  49. Qudratullah says:
    September 21st, 2008 12:01 am

    People who are talking about security breach are talking nonsense. I have been there many times. The security is as tight as possibly could be.

    But when some murdering fanatic is bent on blowing himself up just to see other Pakistanis and other Muslims die then no amount of security will help at all!

  50. Daud says:
    September 21st, 2008 12:04 am

    Ibrahim, NO I will not condemn seculars. Why should I? They are not killing anyone. They are not murdering Muslims and Pakistanis. If someone believes that religion is a personal affair and should not interfere with working of the state then that is their business and frankly I think they are right.

    I WILL condemn ANYONE who kills anyone. If it is a Muslim, Secular, Atheist, Hindu, Christian or Jew it does not matter. Those who kill are to be condemned and no amount of excuses from you or anyone will change that. Interesting how you cannot get yourself to clearly condemn these murderers without making excuses for them!

  51. Zia says:
    September 21st, 2008 12:06 am

    Allah bless those who died and those who were injured because of the expansion agenda of those who kill in the name of ‘ war on terror’, in the name of democracy, in the name of energy & trade and create holocaust in the name of holocaust.

    As Henry Kissinger said “It is often dangerous to be an enemy of the United States, but to be a friend is fatal.

  52. Affan says:
    September 21st, 2008 12:25 am

    Allah raham kare

    What kind of religion do these guys follow only Gods knows.

  53. Bashir says:
    September 21st, 2008 12:41 am

    I agree on strategy… here is my plan for what Pakistan should do to clean up this mess:

    STEP 1. Tell Americans they can leave. No more alliance. We don’t want you aid. No support on sending materials to Afghanistan. Thanks but No Thanks. (This is necessary because any Pakistan govt which is too close to USA will not have support of Pakistani people).

    STEP 2. As soon as you do Step 1, start a massive campaign against all militants in Pakistan. Full force. Drain them out. As in war. This becomes Pakistans war, for Pakistan. You cannot do this without Step 1. But if you do this then you will make clear to international community that you are not a pariah state.

    STEP 3. Start cleaning society of over-Islamization. Religion is personal that is what it should be. All madrassahs turn to schools and schools teach reading, writing and math and just that. Religion is personal and no more.

    Maybe, just maybe, we will start putting genie back into the bottle.

  54. DMPK says:
    September 21st, 2008 12:54 am

    In Sean O’ Casey’s play Juno and Paycock — about how violence in Ireland affects the family of Juno — there is a prayer, which I think we also need in Pakistan.
    When the son of Juno the mother is killed, she prays: “Sacred Heart O’ Jesus, take away our hearts o’ stone, and give us hearts o’ flesh. Take away this murdherin’ hate, an’ give us Thine own eternal love!”

  55. Sirius says:
    September 21st, 2008 1:00 am

    There may be something else going on rather than the news we are fed day and night. When you think about the fact that what kind of a muslim, liberal or fundemental, would do something like this in Ramzan and iftar time….the mind starts to wonder. Think outside the box!
    Who benefitted ? Not Pakistanis…..not the Taliban (theyve just invited more bashing especially just when the army was just about to take a tiny stand in their favour)
    Hmmm….Pakistan was starting to get annoyingly stubborn towards the US and ‘not doing enough’

    Now whats going to happen? Guess we are going to bow and let America carry on attacks and cross over since they’ll just say ‘ Look, we told you so, we were proven right so let us continue the attacks’

    Read the following article and wonder…..what was in those boxes that made the 4th and 5th floor blaze so dazzlingly for so long…..

    Was it an attack on US Marines?

    ISLAMABAD: Was there a top secret and mysterious operation of the US Marines going on inside the Marriott when it was attacked on Saturday evening? No one will confirm it but circumstantial evidence is in abundance.

    Witnessed by many, including a PPP MNA and his friends, a US embassy truckload of steel boxes was unloaded and shifted inside the Marriott Hotel on the same night when Admiral Mike Mullen met Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and others in Islamabad.

    Both the main gates (the entrance and the exit) of the hotel were closed while no one except the US Marines were either allowed to go near the truck or get the steel boxes unloaded or shift them inside the hotel. These steel boxes were not passed through the scanners installed at the entrance of the hotel lobby and were reportedly shifted to the fourth and fifth floors of the Marriott.

    Besides several others, PPP MNA Mumtaz Alam Gilani and his two friends, Sajjad Chaudhry, a PPP leader, and one Bashir Nadeem, witnessed this mysterious activity to which no one other than the PPP MNA objected and protested.

    A source present there told The News that after entertaining them with refreshments at the Nadia restaurant at midnight when Mumtaz Alam, along with his friends, was to leave the hotel, he found a white US embassy truck standing right in front of the hotel’s main entrance.

    Both the In-gate and the Out-gate of the hotel were closed while almost a dozen well-built US Marines in their usual fatigues were unloading the steel boxes from the truck. No one, including the hotel security men, was either allowed to go near the truck or touch the steel boxes, which were being shifted inside the hotel but without passing through the scanners.

    Upon inquiry, one of the three PPP friends who was waiting for the main gates of the hotel to open to get his car in, was informed that the suspicious boxes were shifted to the fourth and fifth floors of the hotel. Mumtaz Alam was furious both at the US Marines and the hotel security not only for the delay caused to them but also for the security lapse he was witnessing.

    On his protest, there was absolutely no response from the Marines and the security men he approached were found helpless. Mumtaz Alam told the hotel security official that they were going to endanger the hotel and its security. He was also heard telling his friends that he would never visit the hotel again. He also threatened to raise the issue in parliament.

    One does not know whether the PPP MNA revisited the hotel after that mysterious midnight but his brother Imtiaz Alam, who is a senior journalist, was in the same hotel when the truck exploded at the main gate of the hotel. Imtiaz Alam had a lucky escape and found his way out of the hotel with great difficulty in pitch darkness.

    One of the lifts he was using fell to the ground floor just after he forced the door open on the 4th floor and got out of it.

  56. ZAFAR says:
    September 21st, 2008 1:06 am

    Oh God! Another Taliban apologist emerges! Mr or Ms Sirius, are YOU serious!!!!

    Let me answer your question directly. The type of Muslim who would do this is one who hates Pakistan, one who hates Islam and one who hates Muslim… that is, someone called a TALIBAN. That’s who.

    As to your childish theory about why the blaze… when you throw a TON of explosive (1000kg) at a building that is exactly what happens. It blazes.

    Please stop apologizing for these killers. These murderers are the enemies of Pakistan and the enemies of Muslims.

  57. Hameed says:
    September 21st, 2008 1:08 am

    I second Bashir’s strategy. I really think this is the only thing that will work. We really should propagate this plan.

  58. PakAm Muslim says:
    September 21st, 2008 1:24 am

    @ Bashir:
    Good suggestions plus one more suggestion:

    Amend the Pakistan’s 1973 Constitution and abrogate the 2nd ammendment that declares Reciters of Kalima-Shahada as Kaffir (non-Muslim). If this is not possible for Pakistan “just” (insaf-passand) Muslim politicians then at least hold the trial in an open supreme court, where defense is also allowed to question prosecution, and media can cover it openly. And prosecution and judiciary is not the same party as was in Pakistan national Assembly in 1974.

    This way, respect of Kalima-Shahada will develop in hearts of Muslims of Pakistan and Inshallah Allah SWT will also show mercy on Pakistani Muslims/nation.

  59. Sirius says:
    September 21st, 2008 1:30 am

    Ok Mr Zafar,

    Firstly stop being excessively rude. Theres no need for that. Just because id like to look outside the box for other possibilities which may or may not be possible in our messed up world of dirty politics and deals, that does not mean im defending any position. Did i write any favourable comments about the Taliban? How do you know if I hate them more or less than you?
    Im only looking at who’s benefitting and who isnt?
    Pakistanis? No
    Taliban? there have been rumours of them being supported by the CIA…who knows?
    USA…..MOST DEFINITELY!

    Try to focus your eyes and see the real devil who is sending us his little minions to cause mischief

  60. Ibrahim says:
    September 21st, 2008 1:37 am

    What?! Bashir, you just said the religion is a personal choice and then went ahead with describing a plan where the state will dictate how a madrassah should be run. What about the “personal” choice of Mullah to run a madrassah and the personal choice of those who attend it. You, as usual like your secularist friends, have no principle. Anything that allows Mullah bashing is perfect for you. And, a madrassah is a school.

    Ok, Daud, your response wasn’t surprising. Secularists do kill people…all the secularist here were happy to see killings in Lal masjid. Now, can you condemn the secularists or are you going to make my belief even more firm that you guys have no principles.

    D_a_n, in that case, read some history so that you can give other references, and stop imagining things…gali mohallah?! Who cursed you?

  61. Sirius says:
    September 21st, 2008 1:48 am

    @ Zafar

    “The type of Muslim who would do this is one who hates Pakistan, one who hates Islam and one who hates Muslim

  62. ZAFAR says:
    September 21st, 2008 1:48 am

    Since you ask.

    The ONLY people who benefit from these killings ARE the Taliban.
    Pakistan does not benefit because Pakistanis are killed and Pakistan’s international image is spoiled.
    USA does not benefit since Americans are killed and American image in Pakistan is spoiled as you can see in these comments.
    Taliban are openly preaching hatred and doing suicide bombings so they obviously don’t care about their own or others dying and their image actually improves (since they are feared now because of their ability to kill).

    More deeply, the Taliban actually benefit because their whole purpose has been to destroy Pakistan (rememebr these are same people who did not want Pakistan to be formed in the first place). They want Pakistan to become a cult place like they did to Afghanistan. For them all the Pakistanis are kafirs anyhow (like you they also do not think that the rest of us are ‘real’ muslims) so killing us is actually a source of pride for them. Plus if they can create thsi havoc and mayhem, just like they did in Afghanistan, then they create a vacuum and chaos in the country so that the country disintigrates and then they and their minions come as say “well everything else has failed, now why don’t you give us a chance!”

    So, yes, the ONLY ones who benefit are the Taliban.

  63. ZAFAR says:
    September 21st, 2008 1:55 am

    Actually, I would agree mostly with Sirius’s list. Except that he missed one more set of people in the list who have been hating Pakistan and killing Muslims for 60 years in Pakistan… the fundamentalist mullahs who opposed Pakistan’s idea in 1947, who then instigated the killing of Bengalis (e.g., Jamaat-i-Islami) who were Pakistanis and Muslims in 1971, and who then instigated the killing of and declaration of Muslims as non-muslims. Interesting that more Muslims in Pakistan have been killed by those trying to enforce Islam than those who have nothing to do with religion!

  64. Salah says:
    September 21st, 2008 2:06 am

    Hopefully stories like this can help bring to light the sad state of affairs in Pakistan. Samar Minallah latest documentary “Homeless at Home” is a 17 minute examination of the plight of displaced people from Bajuar.

    http://beta.vajood.com/?p=432

  65. Sirius says:
    September 21st, 2008 2:07 am

    @Zafar

    “For them all the Pakistanis are kafirs anyhow (like you they also do not think that the rest of us are

  66. Faraz says:
    September 21st, 2008 2:27 am

    Sirius, it takes a bit of a stretch to believe that the U.S. has operatives on Pakistani soil running a covert operation, whose objectives are to kidnap Pakistani boys/men, brainwash them to the extent that they can’t think for themselves, find 1000 kgs of explosives and load it into a truck, and program the brainwashed victim (actually victims in this case) to drive to a hotel and detonate the truck. I find that very hard to believe, specially when there’s no evidence that points in that direction. It sounds too much like a good ol’ consipiracy theory. We have seen plenty of evidence of Taliban type suicide bombers, and that’s exactly what this seems to be.

    If we can’t agree who the enemy is, what the enemy’s motives are, and where the enemy is how can we even begin to fight this enemy?

  67. Sirius says:
    September 21st, 2008 2:52 am

    This may seem a stretch overnight if it was overnight.
    In the 80′s , the US fought a covert war from Pakistan in Afghanistan against the Soviets. As this is now factual history accepted by all sides, you cant accuse me of making this up.
    At that time, Osama had volunteered to fight in the mujahideen and he was trained by the CIA, as were many other people. Also, a well accepted fact now.
    The CIA heavily funded Pakistan to support and train these freedom fighters which led to the creation of madressas.
    And by all means, dont think this was our brainstorm. This was all planned out by US thinktanks as the way of growing this generation of freedom fighters for their covert war.
    Excellent move…they won the war ….watch Charlie Wilson’s War.
    Now with all that infrastructure in place, and left over kids in Afghanistan who have now become men and only know war, how hard is it to give them a new goal to fight towards?
    Also, important to mention in this evil spreading from Afghanistan to Pakistan is the point that a lot of the tribals are rigid in their traditions and purdah and all that stuff anyway. But before this, they were peaceful. What has changed now for us to have this home grown problem?
    The difference is on the one hand they see lawlessness, corrupt politicians and according to them modernism and vulgarity. The other extreme is this Taliban brand.
    With no middle ground they’ve chosen the Taliban. Didnt you see this right here in Islamabad during Lal masjid?
    Slightly conservative muslims even sided with the militants because it was better than chosing Mush who they hated more.
    By no means am I siding with the Taliban menace here, but I know what im definitely against. The far more dangerous US and they want Pakistan more than the Taliban do.
    Taliban are being ‘ allowed’ to blow this country to bits and America will come and take the spoils.

  68. adeel says:
    September 21st, 2008 2:56 am

    @Faraz

    Yes, this could just be a conspiracy theory. and US involvement does seem far fetched. But it might be possible for CIA to secretly fund and have a puppet mullah operating out of a cave acting as their front-face. The actual executors of these attacks (or the mullah for that matter) may not know who the real people may be.

    But I agree this does seem like a conspiracy theory. Anyhow, even if the CIA is funding them, the mullah and the executors ought of have a shred to brain left to do something thinking of their own.

  69. farzad says:
    September 21st, 2008 3:20 am

    This is the beginning of the end of Pakistan. This is a lesson from God for a people who don

  70. Faraz says:
    September 21st, 2008 3:32 am

    Sirius, I’ll just make two points and then you can believe what you want.

    1) This is not the 80′s. Afghanistan is not under attack from the Soviets. And the US is not an ally of the ‘people’ (and the TV dramas are no longer classy). Quite the opposite. Also this type of operation cannot have the backing of the ISI or the Pak govt, unlike the operation the Americans conducted in the 80s. I am just saying that from a logistical point of view this is absurd.

    2) We have to look at evidence. We have to watch for patterns, especially recent patterns. Who’s been doing these type of attacks, not just in Isb but all over the globe?

    Now, I don’t care if these Taliban types have connections back to the 80s. We have to look at what is sustaining this movement today and find a way to stop it.

    And I really can’t imagine what “spoils” would interest US to invade Pakistan (if that’s what you mean). US can hardly sustain the two current wars. They have spent billions (or is it trillions now?) in Iraq and Afghanistan and look what that did to their economy. And first of all, it just sounds ridiculous that the US would be taking over Pakistan, a nuclear armed nation of 150 million. And secondly, for what? I don’t think they want to inherit this mess.

    Ok that was more than two points. Now I must get back to studying about database management systems.

  71. PatExpat says:
    September 21st, 2008 3:53 am

    Well since everybody is throwing around a conspiracy theory, here is mine:

    The bomb blast was actually carried out with complicity of Zardari and US. Otherwise, with security tight in the capital, and intelligence agencies on high alert with their claims of Taliban planning attacks all over the country, this attack comes across as a total intelligence failure.

    Taliban have nothing to gain from this attack. If they wanted to attack and that too with a tonne of explosive, there are various other targets where they could have achieved caused much more damage and driven their point home with much more blood shed. And it will make Taliban, FATA lose sympathy of people of Pakistan which they have so far retained.

    This theory seems more plausible in light of what Cowasjee has quoted in today’s Dawn,

  72. With Apologies says:
    September 21st, 2008 3:55 am

    @ZAFAR,

    This goes on a different direction but since you brought up the issue.

    You are right about Jamaat-e-Islami fighting the Bengali brothers of Mukti Bahini. But their fighting came in at the end. Moreover, they were the local Jamaatis more interested in keeping it part of Pakistan and not letting it secede.

    But who brought the Bengalis to ask for freedom. Punjabis and Mohajirs. The Punjabis in the Army and Punjabis and Mohajirs in Civil Service always considered Bengalis to be second degree citizens. Getting fat on the exports of golden fibre. It was actually Ayub Khan’s one unit and 1965 war where we even didn’t have any army presence to defend East Pakistan that resulted in its secession.

    If there has been any nation that has resulted in breaking this country, its the punjabis and mohajirs. Institution wise, first is Army and second the bureacracy. Politicians are a distant third…

  73. Rashad Ahmed says:
    September 21st, 2008 3:56 am

    The most amazing thing I found in all comments here that at one side these tin soldiers condemn others by labeling as apologists while they themselves are being apologetic to pamper their friends in West.

    Guys like Bashir,D_a_n and few other drawing room experts gave me a good laugh on Sunday.

  74. Hassan says:
    September 21st, 2008 3:56 am

    Actually, this is Musharraf’s war that he has left behind him as a constant reminder through death of all his mistakes.

  75. Aamir Ali says:
    September 21st, 2008 4:01 am

    Hassan:

    Musharraf is gone now and no longer an excuse for you. Time to face up to harsh realities: Terrorists have a paradise in FATA and from there launch attacks in Pakistan and abroad.

    Sirius:

    A pity that you cannot come out of conspiracy theories no matter what happens. It is the Taliban and their associates who are responsible for this atrocities and all others in Pakistan in last few years. To also be brutally frank, there is nothing Pakistanis can do against the US anyway so stop engaging in these nonsense conspiracy theories.

  76. omega-3 says:
    September 21st, 2008 4:36 am

    @ Sirius

    common perception but not correct–bin laden was not trained by the cia

  77. Capri says:
    September 21st, 2008 5:32 am

    Ibrahim:

  78. September 21st, 2008 6:20 am

    Firstly, my sympathies to anyone who has lost relatives or friends, to any of the bomb attacks across the subcontinent in the last few years, there is no accounting for madness of the people who carry out these terrible and wicked acts.

    It still amazes me that anyone in Pakistan can still think that Pakistan is not under attack – you can’t appease terrorists by ‘leaving them in the tribal areas’, because they see this as weakness, and it just encourages more outrages. Look to history, the English Kings paid

  79. Tina says:
    September 21st, 2008 6:44 am

    Feeling a bit bitter and cynical this morning,

    So now that the VIP and “white foreigner” crowd (with whom the news stations seem most notably concerned–I see Adil is at least trying to buck the trend) has been hit with some of the violence that the rest of Pakistan experiences daily (which Adil also points out), do you think they will commit themselves to trying to make Pakistan a liveable place again, now that even armed guards and concrete barriers cannot keep them safe? Or…..

    Like Pakistan’s so-called leaders, will they all just move to Dubai?

    Zardari has a dream for Pakistan, yes…that dream is to buy more UAE properties with money stolen from Pakistan’s coffers.

    It’s that kind of thing that is making the radicals angry and generating their support. I truly believe the fundamentalists are just a replacement for the Communist revolutionaries of an earlier era. Thing is, I’d rather have the commies, they’re about 10x as intelligent, and they believe in equality for women.

    Pakistan cannot defeat militarily the problem that showed itself in the bombing of the Marriot, which is at root a set of social problems of which Mr. Zardari himself is the biggest example (a feudal, corrupt, funnels money abroad, etc. etc.). Why is no one willing to have a discussion about this?

  80. Edsa says:
    September 21st, 2008 7:21 am

    I fully agree with Tina – “Zardari has a dream for Pakistan, yes

  81. BUNTY says:
    September 21st, 2008 7:51 am

    SECURITY CAMERA VIDEO from Marriott cameras released by Ministry of Interior.

    The bomber drove a construction dumper truck into the barrier. Himself got killed by a spark and fire in the cabin. The massive explosion was due to either sympathetic detonation or a dying man pressed on the detonator before dying!!

    KUDOS to the security staff at the Marriott and the effective barrier system that prevented larger scale destruction and most certainly higher number of deaths!

  82. Ibrahim says:
    September 21st, 2008 8:07 am

    PatExpat, well said. Read my first comment on this blog. I can smell the stench of conspiracy from here.

  83. Zecchetti says:
    September 21st, 2008 8:14 am

    I don’t see why we should immediately jump to conclusions and blame the Taliban for this attack. This comes at a time when the U.S is itching for an excuse to invade Pakistan, and a new puppet president has been sworn in.

    Besides, what would the Taliban have to gain from this attack? To be fair, they’re already putting up a pretty good fight in Afghanistan and I don’t see how they would be desperate enough to do this . . .

    I’d say keep an open mind as to who dunnit. If this becomes a pretext to a Pakistan government sponsored U.S invasion of Pakistan, then I will definately have big doubts as to who really did this.

  84. ShahidnUSA says:
    September 21st, 2008 8:20 am

    If you think Zardari is not making pakistan a money making base, you are living in a fools paradise but the good news is he hopefully will share that with common pakistanis and would not put it all in his pocket.
    To come back to the topic, Taliban ke moo ko khoon lag gia he, these nut heads would not forgive their own mothers.
    I will never forget the video clip in which they shot a scared,helpless
    burqa bondaged lady right on her face.

  85. antiliberal says:
    September 21st, 2008 8:23 am

    I must reluctantly agree with those that are shocked by all the hue and cry when poor people in Islamabad are killed by a suicide bomb blast while no one-( except perhaps Hamid Meer) seems to notice what happens when the same poor people of Dama Dola are bombed into oblivion by the high tech bombs of the Americans and Pakistan Army.

    Your two-faced hypocritical double standards are more than obvious. Shame on the secular liberal elite of Pakistan!

  86. Umar says:
    September 21st, 2008 8:36 am

    antiliberal…

    There is a world of a difference between what is going on in FATA and in the rest of Pakistan… the civilian deaths in FATA are in large part attributable to the Taliban intentionally seeking sanctuary among civilians… there is no way the Pakistani government, however inept, would bomb civilians alone… while the civilian casualties in FATA are tragic, at least the intent there is to kill the Taliban… journalists who have visited the camps for the internally displaced civilian populations from FATA attest to the fact that they are sick and tired of the Taliban, whose presence in their areas is causing them such trouble… there have also been several instances of village elders kicking out the Taliban…

    On the other hand, the Taliban attack targets in the rest of Pakistan for the sole purpose of killing innocent civilians…

    To equate the Taliban’s deliberate targeting of civilians with civilian deaths caused by the government’s targeting of the Taliban is to ignore the facts…

    The same goes for the US attacks… while we all condemn the violation of territory, it must be said that their primary target was Taliban leaders… again, violation of territory and civilian deaths are condemnable, but at least the idea behind the government (and US) attacks is not to kill civilians… the same cannot be said about what the Taliban are up to in the rest of Pakistan…

  87. antiliberal says:
    September 21st, 2008 8:49 am

    @Umar

    You’re kidding me right? You can’t be that naive and get away with it, you know? The neo-con approach of blaming the enemy for causing civilian deaths by using them as human shields is laughable to say the least. No one in their right mind is going to buy that kind of bull.

    [1] The double standards shown by the secular liberal (commonly elite) are clear. They don

  88. meengla says:
    September 21st, 2008 9:04 am

    @Bashir,
    Good ideas. Can that be basis for a new strategy? I see that some others have agreed to that. Could a new topic be started to discuss the new strategy? Who could be contacted in Pakistan so that the new strategy gets some ‘official’ ears?

  89. Tina says:
    September 21st, 2008 9:10 am

    Well, Shahid in USA,

    If you think Zardari will “hopefully” share with the people of Pakistan and so on, then that is a fool’s paradise…..

    I can’t believe he actually gave an “I have a dream” speech….MLK must be spinning like a centrifuge in his grave.

    But for those who think America is better….Bush is busy right now working up panic and scare tactics in order to ram through radical legislation before anyone gets a chance to read it….fleecing the public of a full trillion dollars and handing it to his family members (Neil Bush) and cronies–beat THAT, Zardari!

    Texans do everything on a larger scale, even robbing the treasury.

  90. Jalal HB says:
    September 21st, 2008 9:42 am

    No matter who is responsible (though we do need to find out) or what the conspiracy is, the fact is that many people died, may some burnt alive. That is tragic.

    But who would take responsibility of faulty fire brigades (the water could not achieve full throw as one of the main vehicle had not its batteries fully charged). There are dozens of fire brigade vehicles in/around Islamabad, but none were seen even after hours of the incident. Only a lone vehicle could be seen with low water pressure, who kept trying to throw after on window after the other.

    And the the million dollar question – on the day, there were very high security due tp president’s address just a kilometre away – then how a vehicle came so close without any detection??

    With this explosions, we were treated with same news:
    1) Red Alert / High Alert imposed all over the country
    2) Report to be filed to the president within 12 hours
    3) All major roads/avenues have stepped up security
    and bla bla

    Can we do something new? or we just want to beat drums and do nothing??

  91. jk says:
    September 21st, 2008 9:51 am

    Hopefully, television stations will broadcast a fitting tribute for the lives lost in this attack. They must broadcast on national television, their names and brief life history and then vow to get the ones responsible.

    Not only would this be respectful for the people who lost their lives but it would also unite Pakistanis in these dangerous times.

    Right now, what we need is unity and common sense of purpose.

    Society is so broken up by religion, social classes, and ethnicity that it is very dangerous.

  92. Kasim Mahmood says:
    September 21st, 2008 9:53 am

    Why are bomb sniffing dogs not employed all over Pakistan and especially at high risk buildings like these ? They should certainly be part of the security apparatus in Pakistan and might be able to help detect explosives.

  93. D_a_n says:
    September 21st, 2008 10:14 am

    @ Ibrahim…

    maybe I should read more history…maybe not..

    but you should definitely look inward and ask yourself just what it is that you find so disagreeable about Hazrat e Ali (RA)…as I often find that the more trying the times..the more inspiration his life provides….maybe there is something deeper at your irritation when I mention him….

    which is funny…as the Prophet PBUH apparently thought highly off him….but then again…what do i know..

    thanks for exposing just where you come from..

    @ Rasha Ahmed…

    so glad that murdered and dismembered Pakistani’s have provided you a good laugh (your words not mine)….

    and as far as tin soldiers go…I was indeed a soldier and served proudly…only now I feel like a cheap New york ‘working girl’ for puting my life on the line to defend the likes of you…..

    and now please continue with your jollies….

  94. zafar says:
    September 21st, 2008 10:46 am

    fellows,

    the equation is very simple.the fundamentalists are evil,and are trying to save their cave era traditions and thinking.why dont we make up our mind that evil is evil and in order to have a society we need to put an end to such hardliners once and for all.

  95. Umar says:
    September 21st, 2008 11:41 am

    antiliberal…

    So if suggesting that the Taliban use civilians as human shields is “neocon bull that no one will buy”, as you say, are we correct to assume that you are accusing the Pakistani government of bombing civilians at will? Lets see if people here buy this fundamentalist bull… like I said, our governments may be inept, corrupt and everything else under the sun, but they wouldn’t intentionally target civilians alone…

    As for civilians being killed when the mullahs are targeted… and for the mullah’s innocent wife and kids dying, again, a parallel cannot be drawn between that and the innocents that get butchered to death by the Taliban… the reason is simple… if the mullah cares so much for the wife and kids he probably beats up black and blue anyhow, he has a choice: stop hiding behind them… if he is so desperate for a fight, let him fight in the open… I’ve met so many mullah lovers who told me that angels will descend from the heavens and toss back bombs aimed at the mullahs… I fail to see how with this kind of help the mullah resorts to guerrilla warfare…

    I am amused that you refer to these mullahs as “so-called” terrorists… maybe to you they are heroes?

    As for selling our souls, a mullah lover accusing us of that is definitely living in a glass house and should refrain from hurling stones at us…

    By the way, what is your definition of “elite”? Also don’t forget that the senior maulvis like Fazl-ur-Rehman and co. and mullah lovers like Imran Khan, Nawaz Sharif and Hameed Gul are a part and parcel of the elite in Pakistan…

  96. awahid says:
    September 21st, 2008 11:42 am

    we are not afraid and we live like nothing really matters to us.
    Almost every country faces these types of terrorist attacks. Pakistan is a country who fights war against the terrorism.

  97. s@s says:
    September 21st, 2008 11:48 am

    No doubt that we are at war!

    Read today’s dawn, front page about the operation in Bajaur. The military people are baffled at the complex fighting tactics of the militants. The news paper quoted military people as the militants have a much advanced communication system than what Pakistan Army posseses (baffling!).

    A couple of weeks ago there were reports that Pakistan has gathered evidences and showed it to White House that Baitullah Mehsood and people from BLA have infact been reigning their strength from RAW and CIA.

    I don’t have a doubt that this bomb blast might be just another one by CIA ( call it Taliban or Baitullah Mehsood or what ever ). After all they need to legitimize their attacks on Pakistani soil. The embarrasing thing is that the above said reports have been suppressed by the media (local and international).

    Another thing which makes me hate the Govt. is what Mr PM Gillani did today. He was aloud in the press conferences saying that neither Pakistani nor Indians were involved in the attacks. Now how can he say that? What proves does he have? Why do they come all along so quickly to defend India and US? Such a disgrace ?

  98. Patriot Pakistani says:
    September 21st, 2008 1:24 pm

    Instead of beating around the bush and dancing around the fire, we need to focus on the main issues and work on their resolutions.

    1- Literacy 2- Economy 3- Promote Secularism*

    It’s all about incentives like Steven Levitt mentions in “Freakonomics”.

    *As Tony Blair mentioned that a recent poll showed, “~97% of the people in Pakistan saying that religion plays a very important role in their lives”, this is scary, we need to cool this down a bit. For Europeans, this number was in 30s, although a bit higher for the Americans but still not that high.

  99. mustafa kamaal says:
    September 21st, 2008 1:35 pm

    @Patriot Pakistani:

    “*As Tony Blair mentioned that a recent poll showed,

  100. someone says:
    September 21st, 2008 1:39 pm

    Well said, mustafa. Only if people return to true teachings, you will see peace prevail. These bombings are only because of the stupid govenment’s policies of targetting our own people and allying with Americans. Follow rightful policies is the only answer. So stop demonizing population of pakistan and 97% following of religion please and talk about the real problem.

  101. someone says:
    September 21st, 2008 1:41 pm

    Patriot Pakistani says 3- Promote Secularism*

    What blasphemy and what hypocrisy!

  102. Edsa says:
    September 21st, 2008 2:06 pm

    The prime requisite for peace and stability in Pakistan is:

    CUT OF ALL MILITARY TIES WITH THE US

    China may be a better bet.

  103. Patriot Pakistani says:
    September 21st, 2008 2:15 pm

    I respect your right to disagree. I didn’t use the word Islam, neither did I demonize anyone.

    I’m just saying religion is and should be a private affair. Opinions shouldn’t be forced especially with horrible acts of violence.

  104. Zecchetti says:
    September 21st, 2008 2:52 pm

    People, see the groundbreaking new 5-star documentary Fabled Enemies right here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2144933190875239407

    This attack smells like a false flag operation! Expect surprise permission to be granted to the U.S to invade Pakistan soon. All very convenient.

  105. Shirin says:
    September 21st, 2008 2:59 pm

    so mustafa, the western values that pakistanis have adopted are the ones that are telling them to blow up a hotel during the so called holy month of ramadan to show how morally superior they are to the west? please, let’s call a spade a spade–muslims are the perpetrators of violence here, led and mentored by religious leaders who claim to be upholding Islamic values.

  106. someone says:
    September 21st, 2008 3:02 pm

    “I

  107. someone says:
    September 21st, 2008 3:05 pm

    Miss Shirin, let’s call spades as you say. Have you seen the evidence? How the hell do you know that “Muslims are the perpetrators here” with such confidence? Have you talked to them? Have they made any claims? How do you know it’s not Americans or RAW operating to invade Pakistan? This is what mustafa means when he says all you liberals are brainwashed to be western slaves who can’t think for themselves and accept whatever BBC/CNN tell you as gospel.

  108. shirin says:
    September 21st, 2008 3:11 pm

    Hi someone,
    You’re right–it must be the atheists of Pakistan who did this. I just hope that in the next 48 hours when an Islamic militant organization claims responsibility of this attack, you will still be on this blog to admit, that the evidence has finally arrived. Why don’t you pause for a second and reasonably look at the likely source of this incident.

  109. adeel says:
    September 21st, 2008 3:31 pm

    Dude someone,

    don’t get too deep into the conspiracy theories. It sure as hell was a TTP or an Al Qaida plot. Even if the funding/planning came from elsewhere (CIA or RAW), the executors were most certainly conducting jihad and cleansing the ‘corrupt’.

    No need to throw whose affair religion is into this debate. Whatever anyone says, that is not the point. Keep religion separate from this. These cave dwellers have no religion. They are short sighted animals with non-stereoscopic sight.

  110. someone says:
    September 21st, 2008 3:32 pm

    ” an Islamic militant organization claims responsibility of this attack”

    Shirin, try to think. this won’t prove anything. Anyone can call and make any claims. All the westernized idiots will be the death of Pakistan, as is becoming evident.

  111. Patriot Pakistani says:
    September 21st, 2008 3:42 pm

    The situation is so bewildering here… I’m also named Mustafa but the religion I was taught, is of compassion and understanding,…. I was taught that violence is un-religious and God’s most disliked.

    This other version/projection of religion is so unknown and unfamiliar to me.

  112. September 21st, 2008 3:51 pm

    How heavy loaded truck with total explosives can enter and reach the target through/in high security alert area????????????????????????????????????

  113. September 21st, 2008 4:01 pm

    On news tv 1 clearly said in discussion that who is behind the scene.from where weapons comming ,from where finance means doller commimng. BHOLE PAKISTANIO THIS IS A DIFFERENT MATTER ,don’t confuse religion with this international conspiracy.,nothing doing with religion..hamne pakistan liya tha bagair kisi violance kay.

  114. Mohammad Irfan Khan says:
    September 21st, 2008 4:14 pm

    These murderous attacks by the Taliban will ultimately go against them just as the US attacks are ultimately going against them. Pakistanis really do not want to die for these ideologies, neither for the Taliban nor for the US.

  115. M. Asif says:
    September 21st, 2008 4:27 pm

    We are in middle of a very significant war. In most cases the battles lines are clearly drawn. Islamists and the West have clearly defined the battle lines even though the West does not call it a holy war against Islam. Islamists discern Western intention by interpreting Western actions rather than its rhetoric. The Western-influenced educated class in Pakistan cannot emotionally come to terms with this interpretation. In their minds there is small but dedicated group of people who are willing to put their (the elites and semi-elites) prosperity in jeopardy and impose a system of belief that is too harsh (spiritually and emotionally). In their world-view their happiness and prosperity lies with Western-derived prosperity in form of loans, grant and aid, ability to travel and immigrate to the West. This channel of wellness can be blocked if Islamists impose their system of governance, leading to economic hardship for all and international isolation. The only silver lining in this changed equation will be some sense of honor and redemption. Western-inspired minority and even the majority perceive the Islamists do not have know-how or disclipline to run a country especially when it comes to economics. Pakistan is not Iran, we dont the oil that will set us free to determine our own destiny. So the choice is between choosing your own destiny and economic prosperity. Islamists are willing to suffer economically for their principles, the western minority is not. And in the middle are the clueless populace that votes in thugs, thieves, unqualified morons thinking these people might provide some relief.
    Again, the lines are drawn. At some point all of you who are sitting on the sidelines will have to make a choice. The trains are coming on each side and you will have to get on one of them, unless you are lucky enough to escape to part of the world they will welcome you are give you a job where you can forget about Pakistan forever.

  116. Faraz says:
    September 21st, 2008 4:58 pm

    If this blog at all represents the rest of the Pakistani society then one thing is for sure. We are divided and confused. There are those who think that Shariat and Caliph-style govt is not only practical but is the cure to all the problems, and there those who think attempts to impose such a govt is what got us into this mess in the first place. We can’t even agree who the enemy is. I have very little hope of anything changing in the next few years.

    One other point I want to make. Imposing “secularism” is not only unpractical, it will actually have the opposite effect.

  117. Tina says:
    September 21st, 2008 5:06 pm

    Oh goody, the Caliphate!

    Yes, that’s what we need–a worldwide Caliphate.

    Who will govern the Caliphate? There are so many choices! Let’s look at a few….

    top choices I guess would be religious based governments/movements of today–so the entire world could be run by:

    The Saudis (imagine, a worldwide Saudi Arabia)

    The Taliban (look how they improved Afghanistan)

    The maulvis (look at all they’ve done for Pakistan)

    The ayatollahs (we can get over their being Shi’ite)

    Or we could turn the Caliphate over to politicians who use the name of Islam to flog their agendas. Even better! We could:

    resurrect Zia

    elect somebody like Zardari

    or somebody like Muammar Qaddafi

    or any other dictator–take your pick.

    Admit it please–the Caliphate is a pleasant dream, an ideal state we cannot achieve in this messy world. In the real world, religion in politics is always hijacked and misused by ambitious hypocrites. The only system that has consistently worked for people is a transparent, representative government which recognizes a distinction between religious institutions and the state–i.e. secularism. Everything else leads to horrors. Study your history please.

    Even when the Caliphate did exist, we saw how corrupt human nature turned to power struggles within a generation and tore the new religion of Islam apart. Since perfection is not achieveable on this earth, let’s be realists–and realists go with what works, they are not ideologues. Ideologues have always gotten the world into trouble. They are simplistic thinkers, more like Hitler or Stalin than, say Lincoln or FDR.

  118. someone says:
    September 21st, 2008 5:07 pm

    Faraz, I think it’s only the elite minority (really tiny and miniscule) who are “confused” mainly because they are afraid of losing their privileged and dbauched lifestyles under a just and equitable nizam. Unfortunately, they’re powerful and so are distorting the country’s policies and outlook. The rest of the country (that 97% that PP is so scared of) is fully united in their answers to questions you have raised. Just a matter of time, for the elite …

  119. DL says:
    September 21st, 2008 5:50 pm

    Amusing to see the various arguments on secularism vs. shariat. The situation in Pakistan is grave, and people’s opinions naturally tend to polarize in such circumstances. On a recent visit to Pakistan, I was shocked to hear the imam openly praying that all non-muslims be ‘zaleel-o-khwar ruswa’. I sincerely hope that things improve, and people’s sense of reality gets less polarized.

    These days, I so wish the people of Pakistan realize that secularism is the way to go forward. Live and let others live. Being secular doesn’t mean that you start praying to false gods, it means respecting the rights of all citizens and not letting anyone’s religion become the law. Laws can be influenced by religion, but no one religion should be allowed to rule supreme at the expense of the rights of others. All people are equal citizens of Pakistan, and everyone’s beliefs should be respected.
    I hope I live to see the day when we have a non-muslim president or prime minister ruling over a happy muslim majority of Pakistan.

  120. Hassan Ali says:
    September 21st, 2008 5:54 pm

    Dear ‘someone’ (interesting how so many of the custodians of morality have madeup names!)

    I assume you ate fasting this Ramzan but even if you were not you agree that lying is bad. Based ok that assumption my question for you is could you please give us the source of the 97percent number you mention as being united in their search for a Caliphate?

    Of course, if you had just made up that number to insult someone that would be a lie… And what is the punishment for lying in you caliphate? Or maybe in your cult lying is OK just as murder is!

  121. Harris Siddiqui says:
    September 21st, 2008 6:16 pm

    It is amazing how a sad news can become a source of unlimited argument when put up for discussion on a Pakistani forum. Here we are projecting our historic inferiority complex by fantasizing about the Caliphate and Shari ah and the so called “just” system and I bet the people with these points of view can not give a workable system of Shari ah in today’s world.

    I have just one point to contribute for the future policy.

    * Lets give our children wisdom shots with the polio vaccine as a part of the preventive course after birth. It seems to me that stupidity is our biggest problem and must be cured if we want to move forward as a nation.

  122. trying to learn says:
    September 21st, 2008 6:34 pm

    i just have a couple of questions that i’m trying to understand and that i hope posters here could shed some light on:

    1. if it’s the extremists behind this, doesn’t it undercut what they’re trying to accomplish?

    2. if it’s foreign powers (particularly amreeka), why are they even bothered with pakistan? there are no compelling economic, political, or geostrategic reasons. seems like there are many better candidates out there to invade.

    any help is much appreciated

  123. Faraz says:
    September 21st, 2008 7:01 pm

    Trying to Learn, here’s an attempt to answer your questions from a person who doesn’t know much. I suspect you already know this but whatever.

    1. If it’s extremists then their goal is to terrorize the public and to force the govt into favoring them and leave them alone. They are illogical by definition. Don’t try to find much logic in their acts.

    2. If it’s a conspiracy from the US then the theories are endless. May be they are also trying to scare the govt into acting against the “terrorists”, or may be this is just a part of the grand plan of the West to destabilize the Muslim world and ultimately eradicate Islam.

  124. Khurram Farooqui says:
    September 21st, 2008 8:16 pm

    I am a practicing muslim. I believe that religion has a place in the lives of Pakistanis, and is an inseparable part of our culture and our heritage. To me, those who say that religion has no place in our lives are wrong, just like those who think that “secular” means anti-religion.

    Unfortunately, the only thing we are good at is blaming anyone but ourselves, and hoping for some outside saviour who would solve all our problems in one bold stroke. First, it was Musharraf. Then when we tired of him, it was “democracy”. Now, apparently it is “khilafat”.

    I don’t think khilafat is practical, but I do wish that there was a spiritual equivalent of the Pope or the Ayatollah whom we could all look to as the authority on religious matters, and who could condemn the actions of these madmen who kill for some cause that I do not understand and cannot see as having anything to do with Islam.

    The only logic I see to their actions is that they somehow justify the killing of any muslim who even passively tolerates the presence of Westerners in Muslim land. Thus, killing a security guard outside a hotel frequented by Westerners is a justifiable act. This logic is a very slippery slope, and will inevitably lead to brother killing brother. I fear that the worst is yet to come.

  125. farzad says:
    September 21st, 2008 8:25 pm

    If we are so patriotic why can

  126. Rambler says:
    September 21st, 2008 8:36 pm

    Khurram,

    Your prayers have been answered as there is a Khalifa who condemns these things…

    http://www.alislam.org

  127. D_a_n says:
    September 21st, 2008 9:17 pm

    @ Hassan Ali..

    you are spot on with your question to ‘someone’ … apparently in that cult…you can say or do anything you feel like…

    @ someone…

    so my life is debauched? just how do you know that?…plus I am not living in Pakistan..and im scared that i’ll loose my ‘debauched’ lifestyle OUTSIDE of pakistan which is why i oppose the fellow pakistani’s being butchered??????????????????????

    As I re-iterated earlier…must be fun to belong to a cult that makes lying through your teeth as an aricle of faith…

    I guess im debauched….so I oppose my fellow momin being massacred as they break their fast…..as they say their eid prayers and bow their heads
    I guess im debauched …so my heart aches when I think of the poor guards and drivers who bore the brunt of this explosion…
    I guess I must be debauched for thinking how many children will not know their father…a father who probably kissed them goodbye every morning untill 2 days ago….

    It’s amazing just how well you seem to know me and so many others so pray….fast….and pay zakat and bow heads in prayer 5 times a day…..being the debauched man that I am….

    thanks for letting me know who I really am………

  128. Mustafa Kamaal says:
    September 21st, 2008 9:34 pm

    @DL

    “I hope I live to see the day when we have a non-muslim president or prime minister ruling over a happy muslim majority of Pakistan.”

    I am “impressed” by your secular credentials! Surely, this is what generations of muslims fought for and sacrificed for under the leadership of Qaid?

    Why don’t you take the next samjhauta express to Delhi? You will find many supporters there. In fact this is what they must have been waiting for all these years!

  129. Faraz says:
    September 21st, 2008 9:48 pm

    Mustafa, I think you misunderstood the point.

    Please try to understand the concept of religious tolerance and realize how crucial it is in today’s world.

    India, despite being a Hindu dominant country had a Muslim president not too long ago. And secondly India with it’s secular principles is much better off today than Pakistan. So that was just a very bad example on your part.

  130. Mustafa says:
    September 21st, 2008 9:50 pm

    Pieces from Jinnah’s presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan.

    “In the new state of Pakistan, everyone will be equal before the law, and people will cease to be Muslims and cease to be Hindus, in the eyes of the law”.

    “Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State”.

    Jinnah
    11 Aug. 1947

  131. Relunctant Suckularist says:
    September 21st, 2008 10:04 pm

    I think we should accept Taliban’s existance. They have defeated US and USSR in Afghanistan. Give credit where it’s due.

    Now should we welcome them in Pakistan? why can’t? the evils associate with them are found in secular rulers as well. I believe when Amerika will invade Pakistan in next two months then only our tribal people along with Army jawans would be battling with Americans. The _brave_ liberals who are jumping here and there would prefer to hide behind their wives by covering their faces in Dopattas

  132. AZAM says:
    September 21st, 2008 11:05 pm

    If this was not as tragic as it is, all these idiotic conspiracy theories being floated here would have been funny.

  133. Junaid says:
    September 21st, 2008 11:22 pm

    May Allah give sabr to all who have died in this tragedy.

    May Allah give hidayat to those who were involved in making this happen or who are trying to defend thsi here in the name of religion.

  134. A Fine Balance says:
    September 22nd, 2008 12:53 am

    @ No Nonsense

    American public is different from CIA. CIA is an agency who’s sole purpose is to cater for US interests worldwide, so they do care about events in Pakistan and elsewhere.

    Looking at the big picture:
    What could be CIA’s interest on destablizing Pakistan? None. As per my understanding, an unstable Pakistan is too dangerous for America. CIA would want that order is established in Pak under Western-aligned leaders. CIA also wants specific targets to be attacked within Pak that they percieve are a threat to America.

    What is Taliban’s interest? a. Revenge against Pak Army’s operations against them, b. Attacking American interests wherever possible, c. Fighting for Shariat establishment in Pak.

    My views on discussions going on here:
    1. People are suspicious of RAW and CIA. That is natural given the history of these agencies and their operations. Some are blaming Taliban as they have taken responsibility of quite a few blasts in the recent past. Both sides could be correct or wrong. However time is running out and the actual problem has to be found soon in order to frame a solution for it. Pakistan’s ISI is responsible for finding the responsible parties here as a national duty. What are those guys doing?

    2. Now the more serious issue. People have no consensus on what religious stance shall be best for Pak, which is fine by the way. Few support shariat, others secularism. As per my understanding, Jinnah wanted secularism in Pakistan. In my opinion, it was he and only he who really understood what could be the best path forward for the state of Pakistan. However what Jinnah wanted is not more important than what the people of Pakistan want. If Shariat is what is in the hearts of the majority, then that should be it. However nothing can be forced on general public, anything that will happen should only happen by a national consensus.

    Finally my understanding of the situation is this (the haze of Pak-US skirmishes aside): Pakistan is at war with the religions extremists in the Pak-Afghan border. This war is sometimes carried out by Pak Army and sometimes by US Drones. However the enemy of Pak/US engages in something more than conventional warfare and strikes civilian centers within Pakistan at will. Even if tomorrow US leaves and Pak Army solely carries out this war the blasts shall continue (God forbid) as per the situation. That’s all there is to it, it is not more compicated than that, conspiracy theories aside.

    To find the best way forward (negotiation/all out war) from here is left for the leaders of Pakistan.

  135. Asad Khan says:
    September 22nd, 2008 1:11 am

    I am constantly amazed and how many people are in denial and are making excuses for these murderers. Unless we first wake up to the reality of the attack that we are under from these killers, things will only become worse.

  136. PAKISTANI says:
    September 22nd, 2008 1:28 am

    I must say that not only is this event so very depressing, the comments on thsi post are the most depressing that I have seen on any post on this blog ever.

    I hope that it is that a few peopel are just repeat posting with this nonsense and stacking things, I cannot believe that Pakistanis as a whole actually believe in these nonsense conspiracy theories and junk ideas about Caliphate etc.

    I am convinced that we are a better people than these events or these comments make us out to be.

  137. Pakistani First says:
    September 22nd, 2008 2:10 am

    I must say I am very surprised at the level of hatred and venom that some people here have for Pakistan and ordinary Pakistanis. Seems like they hate us ordinary Muslims for not being their type of muslims or for being muslim enough. I specially find offensive those who are openly talking about destroying Pakistan in the name of a criminal Caliphate or some such thing.

    I am a Pakistani first and Pakistani last and those who attack Pakistan for whatever reason, whether it is some war on terror or soem war for a khilafat, those who attack Pakistan are my enemies.

  138. Manzoor says:
    September 22nd, 2008 2:30 am

    I wish I could wish that I could say that this horrible event has brought us all together and we are all Pakistanis today. Unfortaunetly it is clear from these comments that this is not so. The Taliban and their batil ideas of cult religion has really divided us as a people. That is why they are succeeding in destroying Pakistan from within.

  139. Duo go says:
    September 22nd, 2008 2:34 am

    My heart goes out to everyone who died in this and every other bombing.

    No matter who has done this or for what reason, may they and all their supporters rot in hell. This is inhuman.

  140. Abdullah says:
    September 22nd, 2008 3:31 am

    The fundamentalists and apologists here might speak the loudest and leave the most messages but for those of us who live in real Pakisatn we know that these people and their taliban friends do not speak for us. Most Pakistanis are moderate and decent people, it is tehse brainwashed people coming from UK or Saudia or other places who are spreading this extremism. I wish all these people these foreign mullahs as well as their foreign Americans will just leave us Pakistanis alone!

  141. Sidra says:
    September 22nd, 2008 4:38 am

    mauj bharay ya aandhi aye
    mauj bharay ya aandhi aye
    dia jalaye rakhna hai
    dia jalaye rakhna hai
    gar ki khatir sau dukh jheelain
    gar to akhir apna hai
    gar to akhir apna hai

    dats wat comes from my heart!

  142. adeel says:
    September 22nd, 2008 5:45 am

    In this midst of all the conspiracy theories, let us take a moment to acknowledge the brave act of the Marriott gatekeepers who lost their lives keeping the truck from detonating closer to the building, which would have caused a much larger death toll.

  143. September 22nd, 2008 7:45 am

    My Dear Fellow Pakistanis!

    We must remain united and let’s not suspect each other. All of us including any Talib, maulvi or secular, Shia or Sunn, Sindhi Bauchi, Pathan or Punjabi have to live together and fight it out.

    We as a nation are victim of terror and terrorits who are doing it from outside Pakistan, may be using few of us by brianwashing.

    Long Live Pakistan!

  144. Secular Man says:
    September 22nd, 2008 7:52 am

    @ Khurram Farooqui – “The only logic I see to their actions is that they somehow justify the killing of any Muslim who even passively tolerates the presence of Westerners in Muslim land. Thus, killing a security guard outside a hotel frequented by Westerners is a justifiable act.”

    Oddly they are also the first to complain against any slight or limitation imposed against Muslims living in Western lands … surely if they want Muslim lands cleared of Westerners, then they would also be happy for Muslims to leave Western countries, or does it only cut one way?

    Until

  145. mustafa kamaal says:
    September 22nd, 2008 9:08 am

    @Faraz

    “India, despite being a Hindu dominant country had a Muslim president not too long ago. And secondly India with it

  146. naseer says:
    September 22nd, 2008 9:13 am

    Once again poor people of Pakistan are tested again. Civilians lost their lives by those who claimed to be muslims.
    Those who still back those muderers should go back and study Islam again . This is totally against the teachings of Islam no matter how you interpet it.

    It was painfull to see a gaurd trying to use fire extinguisher to put out the fire on the truck just before the big explosion.
    For a moment think of his thought in milliseconds before the explosion, where he is right now.
    Salute to those brave men who lost their lives, surely they are writing history with their blood.
    Long livr Pakistan.

  147. Rehman says:
    September 22nd, 2008 10:51 am

    @mustafa kamaal:

    “Please also add Kashmir, Gujarat and Ayodhya to the above list.

    Thank God Pakistan has not reached there yet!”

    mustafa kamaal, I don

  148. bilal says:
    September 22nd, 2008 11:07 am

    how can i even dare to write, what am gonna write, about that? how can we believe that it is feasible to carry a 1000 kg explosives in the most secured area of Islamabad where security is red alert? yes, it happened and the bomber did that valiantly. Now the questions that knocks everybody’s mind is that how mr. zardari will consider the possible solutions – which should have been carried out proactively, to these very usual happenings? does the current leadership has lost its rationality? and on our part do we really deprive the pakistan army to stop their millitary operations in bajaur and wazirstan?

    It’s a now and never situation for us, the operation must be completed with full fledged efficiency to wipe out taliban and al-qaida from our land.

  149. Momin says:
    September 22nd, 2008 11:14 am

    “Please also add Kashmir, Gujarat and Ayodhya to the above list.

    Thank God Pakistan has not reached there yet!”

    For heaven’s sake, if you want to compare with India, compare with their good points. It is your kind of chauvinism that has led Pakistan to disaster.

  150. Usman Akram says:
    September 22nd, 2008 11:33 am

    We cannot do dialogue with people who kill Women, children, unarmed and poor people in the name of God. They know no God. Retaliation or whatever, they have no right to burn girls school and create their own state. It is because of them that Americans have excuses to attack in Pakistan. It is because of them that the whole nation is suffering. These people want war, we SHALL give them a war, a mother of all operations to clean the whole area once and for all. No one should be allowed to carry any weapons in Pakistan.

    There was once Lawlessness in karachi altho MQM’s Farooq wing was part of political party but it was an operation rather then dialogue that saved Karachi.

    People like Imran Khan and others who say we should leave tribals alone shall answer this; Would there be no talibanisation and no burning of schools if fedral government leaves them alone? Would those people be able to get education like in sindh and punjab? Would there be no forced marriages? If operation is not an option then we should simple exclude them from bouders of Pakistan.

    Every nation has fought this war. Unfortunatly it is our time now and soon the better.

  151. Nihari says:
    September 22nd, 2008 11:36 am

    If we look at Islamic history we can find some parallels with what is happening in Pakistan right now. The Taliban/Takfiri movemnet is quite similiar to 2 other movements. The first was kharajis who also thought they were real muslim and the rest are kafirs. They are responsible for the shahadat of Hazarat Ali. The second very important parallel is that of the Assasians. They were given a so called tour of Jannat to make them the suicide bombers of those times. Both resulted in mayhem. One was curshed by the Islamic world and the other by the Mongols. The question is have we stopped the factories manufacturing these assasians. They are no muslims. To them we life, property and honour means nothing. We have to do a bit of soul searching to decide how far we are ready to go and how much price we are ready to pay. The answeres are not easy.

  152. Shahid Pakistani says:
    September 22nd, 2008 12:23 pm

    I am disgusted at people who are giving useless comments here.

    At Rambler please take your ahmediyya thing out of this.
    This is insane. Talebans dont know islam at any cost. They are killing muslims and on the top it at iftaar time and in ramadhan. BC koun sa islam hai yeh!

    Extremely sad for pakistan.

  153. Edsa says:
    September 22nd, 2008 2:14 pm

    Three cheers for Tina (21 Sep) on the Caliphate

    She was hilarious. Yes, we do need some lighter moments in these trying times

  154. ShahidnUSA says:
    September 22nd, 2008 3:33 pm

    Someone tell these Talibans (So called students) things that were ok two thousand years ago are not practical in todays times.
    Wars and battles fought in those days were the sad events and “teach” your children that they were nothing to be proud of.

    War is an animalistic behaviour like two angry dogs calm down only after mauling eachother.

    Wish the develop countries were the role models for the developing countries and use their technology and resources to teach peace rather than involve in arms race and gifting world “the atomic bombs”.

  155. Studentoffate says:
    September 22nd, 2008 4:04 pm

    @ ShahidnUSA says:September 22nd, 2008 3:33 pm
    “Someone tell these Talibans (So called students) things that were ok two thousand years ago are not practical in todays times.”

    The current Islamic Year is 1429 AH not 2,008 which means your observation is about the time before Islam started !

  156. Aamir Ali says:
    September 22nd, 2008 5:56 pm

    Let me join a few other posters in praising the valiant guards who stopped the truck and tried to douse the fire. In doing so they lowered the death toll. They and the victims inside the hotel are the only Shaheed in this event.

  157. Kabir Das says:
    September 22nd, 2008 5:56 pm

    @ ShahidnUSA
    “Someone tell these Talibans (So called students) things that were ok two thousand years ago are not practical in todays times.”

    OK, I will tell them that. However what should I tell them if they tell me that Islam is for all time to come ??? Should I deny that?? Please answer my question!

  158. Kabir Das says:
    September 22nd, 2008 6:08 pm

    @ Aamir Ali
    I can understand your calling the guards as shaheed. They died in line of their duty. However, what criteria are you applying to call the victims inside as shaheed.
    It is not that I object to calling the victims as shaheed, I just want to know the criteria for calling them so.

  159. Momin says:
    September 22nd, 2008 8:08 pm

    “OK, I will tell them that. However what should I tell them if they tell me that Islam is for all time to come ??? Should I deny that?? Please answer my question!”

    No doubt Islam is for all times to come. But whose version? Your’s, mine or Talebans’? Frankly, I don’t know. Nor does anyone else. That’s why founding fathers of this nation wanted religion to be a personal affair. Whatever version of Islam or kufr anyone wants to follow, can do it in their homes.

  160. ShahidnUSA says:
    September 22nd, 2008 8:16 pm

    Dear Kabir Das,
    I did nt mean any disrespect to Islam. Its the wrong intepretation that I have problem with.
    The other day someone was telling me that the best part he likes in Islam is fasting. Its tough discipline prepares you for the tough life.
    Hate spewing mullahs are the other(may god give them the wisdom)
    that are cursing ALL the jews at jumma prayers
    using the words like “nist o nabood”
    Islam is more than fashioning beards and packing women in suffocating burqas.

  161. D_a_n says:
    September 23rd, 2008 1:45 am

    @ Tina…

    excellent point regarding the fantasy that is the caliphate….just how a change of governing style is going to pull out of the hole that we are in is not clear….

    plus thanks for pointing out the riches of choices before us for the slot of caliph….

  162. Asad says:
    September 23rd, 2008 2:20 am

    I wish all these bombers who are caught are ripped part by part publically.
    And I would also like to point out one blast you missed in your list, which I can never forget, as it happened near my home.
    On the night of August 13, a suicided bomber hit a police post at Moon Market, Iqbal Town, Lahore.

  163. Zecchetti says:
    September 23rd, 2008 7:00 am

    A new plot in this mysterious attack. The President and Prime Minister and co were due to have dinner at the Marriot hotel but the decision was changed last minute!

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/pakistan-leaders-had-been-due-at-bombed-hotel-938167.html

    Something very fishy about this. I doubt the Taleban did this as they usually take the fight direct to the enemy (i.e. combatants, not civilians).

  164. someone says:
    September 23rd, 2008 1:14 pm

    Zechetti, yes, even the group that supposedly claimed responsibility is some made-up previously unheard of name – if it was Taliban, they’d be honest about their involvement. Coupled with other occurences, once you investigate deeply enough, it’s quite obvious who the perpetrators really are. The other answer that all the westernized idiots here are blindly mouthing just doesn’t add up. Wake up Pakistanio and see who our enemy really is!

  165. Kabir Das says:
    September 23rd, 2008 1:25 pm

    Momin:
    Islam is indeed a religion for all time to come by virtue of the fact that it has the mechanisms of Ijtima and Ijtihad to interpret it according to the changing times and needs. These two mechanisms make it flexible. The problem is that we are not inclined or prepared to resort to Ijtima or Ijtihad. This has brought in a great deal of rigidity in it which makes it look out of phase with the present day world and its needs.
    You will be surprised to know that Ijtihad or Ijtima has not be used since past many centuries.

  166. Kabir Das says:
    September 23rd, 2008 1:35 pm

    ShahidnUSA:
    No, you were not disrespect to Islam at all. For correct answer, however, please see my response to Momin.
    Agree with your comments about Mullas. However, what pisses me more than the Mullas are some of the educated ones who don’t use their own brains and reasoning power and in religous matters follow these uneducated Mullas blindly.
    I am fighting my own little jihad not against Mullas but this so called educated class who follow these Mullas blindly and also appoint these Mullas to teach Islam to their young impressionable children. I would not like to go into the details of my jihad which I have been fighting for past 10 years or so for lack of space-time.

  167. MQS says:
    September 23rd, 2008 2:15 pm

    So unfortunate and Despicable ….

    UPDATE 1-Pakistani spies hear al Qaeda celebrating blast

    http://in.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idINISL29851420080923

  168. Zecchetti says:
    September 23rd, 2008 3:42 pm

    BREAKING NEWS:

    A top secret U.S marines operation held at the Marriot has been uncovered involving “steel boxes”, reported by the Saudi Gazette.

    Take a look: http://www.infowars.com/?p=4732

    This is in addition to the fact that key politicians including Zardari and Gilani were due to dine at the Marriot but were diverted last minute BEFORE the blast. Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/pakistan-leaders-had-been-due-at-bombed-hotel-938167.html

    Wouldn’t blame the Taleban

  169. jamil says:
    September 23rd, 2008 9:25 pm

    I think these terrorists might have gone too far with this one and ordinary Pakistanis will rise against tehir message of hate.

  170. Mohammad Ali says:
    September 23rd, 2008 9:48 pm

    wah wah Mr. Someone… so you think the Taliban are the only “honest” people. Honestly?

    I guess you also believe that killing Muslims is the “honest” think to do, since that is all the Taliban do!

  171. Ibrahim says:
    September 23rd, 2008 11:37 pm

    Jamil…keep dreaming. The ‘ordinary’ people smell a rat, unlike the secularists who are blinded. Please talk to ordinary people before making a statement about them. This is a clear conspiracy. I’ve already explained the motivation.

    The funny thing is when Taliban accept responsibility, everybody accepts their statement. But, when they deny something, people still blame them. Again, no principles for you people!

    For the count: Taliban have not accepted the responsiblity of BB’s murder nor they have taken responsiblity for this. So, people should stop crying that they are doing this to ‘my country’ and that to ‘my country’. They are doing nothing to this country compared to what this country’s army is doing to the Muslims of NWFP. This is not to say that what Taliban have done sometimes is from shariah or justified. Just look at Rehman Malik and his views of people of NWFP. May Allah deal with Rehman Malik.

  172. D_a_n says:
    September 24th, 2008 2:21 am

    Very Important development as reported in Dawn Tue 23.9.08:

    ‘KHAR, Pakistan: Two major tribes on Tuesday vowed to take up arms against the Taliban and restore government writ in the Bajaur tribal region.

    Known elders and Ulema of the Therkhani and Utmankhel, two major tribes of Bajaur, held a grand jirga at Civil Colony in Khar which decided to launch a campaign against anti-state elements and militants and extend support to troops in the ongoing operation.

    Elders of the Salarzai tribe who had already started a movement against the militants and Taliban also participated in the jirga.

  173. Zecchetti says:
    September 24th, 2008 8:18 am

    This by no means is an in depth study nor is it an official analysis but simply a few of my observations;

    a) Search google images for pictures of the hotel immediatley after the ‘truck bombing’ or go to http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/3042007/Islamabad-Marriott-hotel-bomb-attack-captured-on-CCTV-says-Pakistan.html
    or see the attachment.

    b)in the foreground you will see some white arched structure on the ground floor which, I assume, is the entrance lobby based on photographs from Marriot Hotel website. This area has sustained some superficial damage, no structural or extensive physical destruction.

    c) You will notice that more of the damage has occured to the main part of the building which is to the rear of the site (it’s on fire and damaged from the inside!).

    d) Open google earth and navigate to the Marriott Hotel site in Islamabad. Type in Evacuee Trust Complex Building, Islamabad, Pakistan. The Marriott is to the left of this site.

    e) from photographs and descriptions in articles you can roughly locate the postion of the ’20ft deep and 50ft wide crater’

    f) using the measuring tool in Google Earth plot the distance between the ‘crater’ and the white arched entrance lobby. You will find the distance to be between 15-18 meters. Now measure the distance between the ‘crater’ and the main part of the building which is on fire – almost 40 meters away!!

    g) Suspicious I hear you say, Well I’m no Sherlock but I’m having difficulty piecing together a few facts which have arisen;

    1 – What type of explosion leaves a crater ’20ft deep and 50ft wide’ yet doesn’t destroy the entrance lobby only a few meters away?
    2 – Does the explosion jump through space where the crater is in one area but the effects are felt elsewhere? (Maybe the LHC proton bashing had something to do with this!)

    http://www.infowars.com/?p=4780 <– Have a look how/why US marines were unloading steel boxes to the 4th, 5th floor.

  174. KIBRIYA says:
    September 24th, 2008 8:57 am

    Zecchetti, you are right. You are no Sherlock Holmes. Not even close. Just a propagandist trying to divert attention from the real cancer in our society.

  175. Faraz says:
    September 24th, 2008 9:24 am

    Zecchetti,
    The gas pipeline burst causing the upper floor to catch fire. I don’t know the details but I read in one of the articles that that’s what had happened and that’s why the top floor was on fire. Look it up.

    But you keep trying. Eventually you’ll find something else to convince yourself. People believe what they want to believe, myself included.

  176. IRFAN MARWAT says:
    September 24th, 2008 10:15 am

    for Ibrahim. Zecchetti etc please respect the dead at least and spare us your half baked conspiracy theories and propaganda

  177. Javed Akhter says:
    September 24th, 2008 11:47 am

    Those are are calling for this so-called caliphate are, of course, calling for a breakup of Pakistan. The first step in their caliphate movement is o all Muslim countries. Talk to them for a minute and see the venom they have for anyone who loves their “country”. That is why they opposed Pakistan originally and now they are just destroying it internally.

  178. Aamir Ali says:
    September 24th, 2008 12:35 pm

    Those who wish to form a caliphate do so by starting it in Antartica, Pakistan already exists.

  179. Mustafa Kamaal says:
    September 24th, 2008 12:45 pm

    @D_a_n:

    “Very Important development as reported in Dawn Tue 23.9.08:

  180. libertarian says:
    September 24th, 2008 1:46 pm

    Zecchetti: Excellent comic relief. This bad news was uniform till you showed up. Keep it coming. Conspiracy theories are most entertaining.

  181. Usman says:
    September 24th, 2008 8:54 pm

    Aamir Ali, I believe it’s spelled “Antarctica.”

  182. D_a_n says:
    September 25th, 2008 12:55 am

    Another update (as if we needed any) of the ongoing Kavish-e-Nifaz-e-’Shariat’…

    http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20089\25\story_25-9-2008_pg1_10

  183. Faraz says:
    September 25th, 2008 2:27 am

    Schoolgirl dies in Quetta suicide attack – http://tinyurl.com/478jq9

    3 brothers executed in Wana by Taliban – http://tinyurl.com/3gyrvr

    Two soldiers killed in Swat – http://tinyurl.com/3nbznr
    SOURCE: Dawn

    All this in just one day. Anybody still believing in consipiracy theories: what do you think about these? All these are conspiracies too? Guys, India and US aren’t exactly our friends either, but right now these taliban/alqaeda people are the real problem. Please stop with the conspiracy theories already.

  184. Siddique says:
    September 25th, 2008 5:52 am

    As someone rightly said here, those who dream of khilafat or caliphate are really praying for destruction of Pakistan. They always dislike people thinking of ‘country’ and love for country because love of country is threat to their cults.

    For me, PAKISTAN FIRST AND PAKISTAN ALWAYS.

  185. Javed says:
    September 25th, 2008 9:58 am

    Becharey Islamabad ko nazar lag gayee inn terrorists ki

  186. Blofeld says:
    September 25th, 2008 10:09 am

    An article in ‘The Nation’ today.

    http://tinyurl.com/52no2h

    “.. So, if they want to put their resources at stake and ‘go get their man’ why should we have our soldiers slaughtered? ..”

    “…So let those who led us in dig us out…”

    God help us all.

  187. Waheed says:
    September 25th, 2008 11:03 am

    Someone suggested on a different post that we should build a monument to all the people who have died in suicide bombings. I think that is a brilliant idea. We should do this so that we are reminded of the uselessness of these murders.

  188. Rehman says:
    September 25th, 2008 2:15 pm

    Talibans now in Multan; http://jang.com.pk/jang/sep2008-daily/25-09-2008/up28.gif

    Nawaz League by not condemning Taliban is playing with nation’s security.

  189. D_a_n says:
    September 25th, 2008 7:24 pm

    yet more important developments…more local tribes seem to be joining the fight the cursed Taliban…

    http://thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=17507

    Is this developing into a pattern? I would like to think so but im not sure and what is finally driving this? have the local tribesmen been emboldened by the Army action in Bajaur and the determination with which it has been carried out? Maybe?
    or has the government finally begun to talk to the tribes and started to make efforts to get them on board against Taliban? I really do hope that is the case as just as in Iraq….unless the local tribes join this fight and help the army….victory will be elusive or maybe even impossible….

    @ Mustafa Kamal…

    will you please just STOP with this gibberish of the ummah and start to look at your own house for once?? WHY has the mullah always shown such utter disdain for their own home?

    Also, this is not brother fighting brother….for the one’s we fight are Takfiri animals …and once they set out on this heretical path of Takfir and termed me and my family as kaafir and wajib ul Qatl….they stopped being our brothers and stopped being Muslim…
    This is a fight the takfiri animal has imposed on us….and before we can stand upto any external enemies….we MUST deal with the termites eating us from within…

    and so what if they are our own people…if you see your own brother pick up a gun against your children…your parents and your wife…what would you do? you would do everything in your power to stop him…even killing him if thats what it takes….

    Yeh Takfiri Mullay apnay maan baap kay nahin hotay…aur tum un ko bhai bana rahay ho??? deliberately delusional…

  190. mustafa kamaal says:
    September 26th, 2008 10:53 am

    @D_a_n:

    Your comments are solid proof of the success of western propaganda. How tragic that today Muslims are not ready to trust other Muslims, but they have no hesitation in swallowing everything that Islamophobic west dishes out to them. Mark my words. There cannot be any solution to Pakistan’s woes by marginalizing Islam. It is the so called “secularists” who have brought Pakistan to disaster by going against Islamic values. However, Pakistan will return to glory after tiding over current crisis, will return to its Islamic roots and be most prosperous and strongest country in Asia far surpassing India and China.

  191. libertarian says:
    September 26th, 2008 12:40 pm

    mustafa kamaal: However, Pakistan will return to glory after tiding over current crisis, will return to its Islamic roots and be most prosperous and strongest country in Asia far surpassing India and China.

    More comic relief. I understand there are many openings in circuses you might be interested in.

  192. D_a_n says:
    September 26th, 2008 2:05 pm

    @ Mustafa Kamal…

    just what in the world are you talking about? PINPOINT the exact sentence in which I have said that Islam needs to be marginalised? I am a practicing Muslim so by your definition I am trying to marginalise my OWN way of life?what rubbish…

  193. ShahidnUSA says:
    September 26th, 2008 9:53 pm

    When they (children) shake their heads violently back and forth,
    while reading something they dont even understand, you turn them into something, hard to change later in life.
    Get these poor kids out of madarassas (not the only problem) and teach them something that can make them productive part of the society.
    I am pretty sure god only wants you to work hard and be nice to eachother.
    If you have ruined this generation, please dont ruin the next.
    You silly male dominated society!

  194. AZRA says:
    September 27th, 2008 4:51 am

    The terrorists caught in Germany seemed also to be on their way to Pakistan. Why do all religious fanatics and murderers gravitate to Pakistan!

  195. AZRA says:
    September 27th, 2008 5:34 am

    LOOK what these criminal Taliban are doing to ordinary Pakistanis. From Daily Times:

    “Taliban publicly executed a man after finding him

  196. D_a_n says:
    September 27th, 2008 6:52 am

    a picture to inspire hope..however slight that maybe …

    http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20089\27\story_27-9-2008_pg1_13

    If this is handled right….it could be the death knell for the Takfiri Mullahs inshallah…

    Pakistan zindabad….

  197. Zecchetti says:
    September 27th, 2008 10:20 am

    @ Azra,

    If a man is guilty of killing another, then the death penalty is justified depending on the law system in place. In some states in America it is the same – a life for a life.

    So what’s the problem? People here just need to chill out. Wake up Pakistan! The real enemy of the Muslims is America!!

  198. AZRA says:
    September 27th, 2008 10:36 am

    Zecchetti, someone is murdered brutally by a bunch of vigilante Taliban thugs, and all you can say is “CHILL OUT”.

    Sharam karo bhai, kyon Islam ko zaleel kartey ho!

  199. Zecchetti says:
    September 27th, 2008 11:42 am

    @ Azra

    You said yourself that the culprit was tried in a court and found guilty of murder, theft and robbery. So he was dealt the saza-e-maut, so what’s the issue?

    The Taliban is a popular movement in Swat, so if they want to rule by Islamic Law to keep crime down and establish security and safety then we should not have an issue with that. After all, where did these “vigilante thugs” come from? They are the people of Swat themselves!

    teek hai?

  200. D_a_n says:
    September 27th, 2008 12:59 pm

    @ Zecchetti….

    Are you from Swat? I dont think for a minute you are…..because if you were…you wouldnt produce such nonsense here the people of Swat are supporting the Taliban…

    Additionally please try and actually speak to people who belong to Swat-Mingora and adjoining areas instead of just just dreaming up these lies…they hate them for destroying their economy…their peace and bringing them nothing but ruin and damnation….for Heavens Sake enough with the lies that the Mullah spews lest my ears start to bleed!

    Also…who authorised these Mullahs to set up their courts…by your logic the system that sentenced Mukhtaran mai to a sentence of Gang rape…im sure those folks argued that it was the will of the people via the Jirga….utter garbage…

  201. Zecchetti says:
    September 27th, 2008 6:19 pm

    @D_a_n

    Have a look at this video my friend: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7GMUoxwHOIY

    Support for Taleban has grown because of the corrupt government and polic forces. It’s advantageous being here in London as I can get news and facts that the Pakistan media doesn’t show you. Think about it. How comes the Taleban are becoming so strong…. it’s because the popularity and support for them among locals is growing!!

    It’s the people that gave them the authority and popular support to set up their court and justice systems.

    Please don’t be resiliant against the truth.

  202. Daaniyal Masum says:
    September 29th, 2008 2:08 am

    @ Zecchetti..

    your in London…thats exactly the problem….
    additionally you dont have any friends from Swat proper…

    whatever support the Mullah had to begin with has now completely evaporated due to them exposing their true face and inflicting immense Brutality on the local population and their bizzare and insane campaign against local girl shools as approx 130 ( not sure of the exact no.) have been burned down…

    you mean to tell me that the good people of Swat who for decades have catered to the rest of the country for recreation and livelihood were WAITING for these animals to deprive their daughters of an education, stop their kids from Polio drops and destroy their livelihoods by killing the tourist industry for years to come?

    Stop with this nonesense! TALK to someone from Swat for a change!

  203. D_a_n says:
    September 29th, 2008 3:08 am

    More evidence of the sterling work being carried out in the Madrassa’s that have Mushroomed in our Midst…..

    it appears that they have an assembly line that produces fine young men who have no qualms about butchering 100′s on the Prophet’s (PBUH) birthday..

    http://thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=138560

    Now can we please STOP with the nonsense that there is nothing wrong with the hate that is taught at these awful Madrassas?

  204. D_a_n says:
    October 1st, 2008 6:55 am

    Alhamdolillah….

    a Gift for the Muslims of Pakistan on Eid…….the Lynch pin of the Takfiri Mullah’s is dead and is already tasting the eternal agony of Hellfire….

    The only pity is that he did not die from a Pakistan Army Jawan’s bullet….but we’ll take this anyway it comes :)

    May Allah SWT protect us all….

    http://thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=17622

  205. Zecchetti says:
    October 1st, 2008 12:18 pm

    @ D_a_n

    How do you know he’s in Hellfire? Did an angel come and tell you?

    It is haram to claim to know the unseen.

  206. D_a_n says:
    October 2nd, 2008 1:39 am

    @ Zecchetti…

    I know so…..and I didnt need an angel to come and tell me….
    the man was a non Muslim Takfiri…..Hence Hellfire is where is eternally ‘camped’ now :) for my creator Allah SWT is just….

    PS: how am I supposed to take your religious edicts seriously? How can you possibly know what is haram and what is not when you cannot hide your disappointment at the death of the the biggest enemy of Pakistan and its populace….

    it is well advised to establish some semblance of credibility BEFORE you try and tell me such….

    PSS: sorry for ruining your eid with this news :)….

  207. yaseen ch says:
    October 2nd, 2008 2:25 am

    when will Pakistanis wake for their cause not for u.s cause.

  208. Zecchetti says:
    October 2nd, 2008 5:04 am

    @ D_a_n,

    How do you know he is a non-Muslim? I am not telling you what is haram and halal, I am reminding you of what is already established – that is, you cannot predict the destiny of any person. If he is a non-Muslim then fine, but since he is Muslim, how can you say he’s in hellfire? Can you prove that? Of course not – hence my kind reminder to you.

    By the way my Eid is not ruined whether he dies now or lives to 100 – no difference to me. But it seems he may well be alive anyhow: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7646244.stm

    @yaseen ch,

    Pakistanis will wake up when they see that the war on terror was started by the U.S in order to seize control of the lands and resources of the Muslims and brainwash the Muslims and make them their slaves. And so we have fabled enemies like Osama bin Laden to fear and the U.S to turn to for “protection”

    Wake up O Ummah!

  209. D_a_n says:
    October 2nd, 2008 7:37 pm

    @ Zecchetti…

    Oh ye of little knowledge…must I continue to school thee :)

    He was not Muslim…Based on what my prophet PBUH has told, ie, ‘He, from whose hand and tongue other Momins are not safe is not a Momin’ …. Hence since other Pakistani Momins were not safe from him….QED!

    Praise be to the clarity of what my Prophet PBUH has declared! :)

    Additionally, i must call comment on the following that you have written:

    1. you wrote … ‘ I am not telling you what is haram and halal’
    but YET you ended your previous post with the words.. ‘It is haram to claim to know the unseen’ so yes…you were telling me :)

    2. You wrote…. ‘By the way my Eid is not ruined whether he dies now or lives to 100 – no difference to me’ …
    Yes…im glad for your clarification…and this can only be the case if you just dont care wether Pakistan sinks or swims ….nor care for how many Pakistani’s are maimed and killed by the Mullah…how Good it must be to have unburndened oneself as such….Hence, if you do not care, what is the point of commenting…rather callous….

    3. you wrote …’Wake up O Ummah’ …
    Just WHEN are you and yoru kind going to realise that there is no such thing practically speaking…as the Ummah…
    do you see the Ummah running to help Pakistan in its darkest hour…..running towards Pakistan to draw her towrads it’s chaati…? I dont see any…
    were on our own for the most part and will have to lick the Takfiri animal on our own….

    4. As for the fact that he might not be dead…its a claim by the Taliban ..which is far far far from the Gospel truth…it is a well known fact that these folks will sell their mothers if it suits them…(case in point being their taking help from a plethora of anti-Pakistan sources to fund their Satanical struggle) ….so why should they admit this?

  210. Ibrahim says:
    October 3rd, 2008 10:56 pm

    Dan, please stop talking. I would say that you embarrass yourself, but we are way past that point.

    If you are going to use this hadith as you quote it, then please tell him how does a person who is not a Momin becomes a non-Muslim?! Are all Muslims mominoon? Momin is the highest category of taqwa amongst the Muslims. So, those who are not Momin aren’t necessarily non-Muslims.

    Secularism and secularists, on the other hand, is kufr and are kuffar because it calls for putting aside the laws of Allah that He sent down and ruling a country with man-made laws.

  211. Zecchetti- says:
    October 4th, 2008 7:41 am

    @D_a_n

    There are a few problems with you’ve said

  212. D_a_n says:
    October 4th, 2008 8:25 am

    @ Ibrahim…

    what you spoke makes about as much sense as a warm jacket in July…. :)

    However, for discolsure’s sake…if, according to you, by Quoting my Prophet PBUH I embaress myself then please rest assure that I will continue to do so…as is my want!

    for the beautiful thing about what my Prophet PBUH said….is that it is as much mine as it is yours or the 3rd persons…

    unfortunately I thought that you’d be pleased when I quoted him….but then..I shouldnt be surprised…the Mullah often goes into convulsions when his world view collides with what my Prophet taught….

    PS: it turns out your Hero Mehsud might be alive….very sad that…but I assume that Allah SWT only wants to give him further rope to hang himself…..meanwhile….you may continue to Worship him 10 times a day..

    PSS: I quote the Prophet PBUH….and I am the heretic!Beautiful! :)

  213. Rehman says:
    October 4th, 2008 1:45 pm

    Is it our war or not?

    Our problems did not begin in 9/11 or with the invasion of Afghanistan by the US. They began much earlier with the efforts of a religiously driven lobby to undo the original concept of Pakistan which has been under attack since Independence in 1947. The argument that it is not our war is in effect another effort to fix our identity within the radical camp.

    However, the establishment of a religious state in the region was neither in the mind of the Quaid-e- Azam nor Allama Iqbal, its architects. The pressure of the Islamists manifested itself immediately after the death of the Quaid when Prime Minister Liaquat Ali moved the Objectives Resolution in the Constituent Assembly on March 25, 1949. This resolution was in contradiction to the Quaid’s idea of a modern, democratic and a secular state. The resolution would not have been moved if the Quaid had been alive.

    http://tinyurl.com/4bjrk8

  214. Akram Hussain says:
    October 4th, 2008 11:40 pm

    For “D_a_n” and “ZECCHETTl”, whoever they may be.

    Do both of you realize just how silly and childish you sound, repeating the same nonsense again and again, being so petty in your comments that even those who might agree with your position starts despising your style.

    Please give this up or take your personal bickering to a personal conversation and spare all the rest of us your childish inanities.

    Moderators, please take note of these people abusing other’s time and intelligence.

  215. UMAIR says:
    October 5th, 2008 1:24 am

    I agree with Akram Hussain, this little personal tiff between these two is getting annoying. Just because you keep repeating exactly the same point again and again and again and again in ever increasingly abusive language does not mean that you are either convincing each other or anyone else of your point. You both just come out looking silly (actually teh word I am thinking of is stronger but would probably be moderated out so I will not use it!)

  216. D_a_n says:
    October 5th, 2008 1:44 am

    @ Akram Hussain & UMAIR…

    Well….to comment on what you wrote….

    what you need to understand that for nonsense to become accepted truth…it must be repeated until it becomes what is true…so in order to stop that from happening, it must be refuted ad nauseum…

    now you might find it ‘annoying’ and a ‘waste of time and intelligence’ to find me doing what I feel is right by trying to make my point over and over again….sadly the state that we are reduced to now, it must be done and done repeatedly..for what a certain section of people amongst us is counting on is that we will get tired of refuting them…or get bored of doing so…for make no mistake the ‘other side’ realises what the stakes are this time…

    my apologies for ‘annoying’ you with my defense for my country and the concept of it limping onto another 60 odd yeard of existance…..

  217. Owais Mughal says:
    October 5th, 2008 10:31 am

    ek sher:

    aaj ke din saaf ho jata hai dil aghyaar ka
    aao mil lo Eid ye moqa nahiN takraar ka

  218. Kamal says:
    October 5th, 2008 11:08 am

    I agree. Bohat ho gaya bhai, abb bass karo.

  219. Younis says:
    October 5th, 2008 3:08 pm

    The government’s ONLY priority today shoudl be stamping out this terrorism. If they can do this then all else will start healing itself. Without this, no other achievement will count.

  220. Amjad Ali says:
    October 6th, 2008 9:03 pm

    These murderers are destroying Pakistan. They must be stopped.

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