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Of Sialkot and Civility: The Violence We Condone Breeds The Violence We Condemn

Posted on August 23, 2010
Filed Under >Adil Najam, Law & Justice, Society
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Adil Najam

Stop the violence in Pakistan pleaseFor nearly a week now Pakistan has watched, in stunned horror,  yet another episode of vigilante justice. This one unfolding on our television screens in all its gory detail. The savage murder of two young brothers – Mughees and Muneeb – in Sialkot as people, including police, look on has rightly incensed our sensibilities.

The news itself is clearly horrific, horrible, and horrifying. But the newness in the news is that this time people, including the media and official authorities, are moved enough to unleash an outcry. That is new. And that is news.

What happened in Sialkot was ghastly in its detail, inhuman in its execution, and numbing in the reaction of those who stood by to just view (and film) it. But even if the magnitude was off all scale, the action itself – that is, vigilante justice – was not new: More than what happened in Sialkot, what is new is the larger national reaction to what happened at Sialkot.

The media has begun asking some important questions (even though parts of the media still seems mostly interested in the voyeuristic elements of violence in action). Government officials, starting with the Sialkot Administrator but later also the police chief and the provincial and national authorities, including the Supreme Court, have moved not just to condemn but to take action. More action and better implementation is required, but public outcry has clearly worked in this case to move the authorities into action.

All of this is exactly how functioning polities should deal with incidents of extremism and vigilantelism. But mostly importantly, all of this is news precisely because this is not how things like this have often been dealt with in the past. The opportunity in this truly horrible event is to turn this into a moment of true introspection about ourselves and the attitudes about violence of the many in society, rather than another voyeuristic titillation about the brutality of the few.

Supreme court or not, the jury is still out on whether we will be able to do so or not.

By now everyone knows the details and many have seen the gut-wrenching video of the savagery unfolding in front of their eyes. The video ghastly indeed; not just because of what is being done to the two young brothers but also what is not being done by all the people watching it. Like tamashbeen they watch the orgy of violence in front of them seemingly not moved; indeed sometimes they seem to be cheering on; flashes, cameras, mobile phones keep flashing on the screen as if these were spectators at a sporting event; and these are ordinary people: including the police, traders going about their regular business, ordinary citizens, and even children. The video sends a cold shiver up ones spine. As it should.

We will  not put ourselves or you through the goriness of this spectacle again. But let us, instead, remember anotehr very similar brutality when we – and by ‘we’, I do not mean the government or authorities, I mean ‘we’: as in me and you – were not similarly incensed, even though we should have been. Indeed, when too many of ‘us’ seemed to be cheering on those taking the law into their own hands:

  • Please revisit the May 2008 post at ATP titled “Vigilante Justice: Horrible, Horrifying, Horrendous.”
  • The post is from Karachi: two guys commit a robbery, people from the neighborhood runs after them, catches them, and then sets them on fire (alert: the post has some horrible pictures of the robbers on fire; reader discretion advised).
  • More importantly than the post, please read the comments. See how many readers even of this blog actually think what happened there was ‘OK’ and maybe even a good thing.

The point here is an unpopular one to make. But is an important one. You cannot create a society where you encourage and accept some forms of violence, and then act all surprised and outraged when that same violence gets out of hand. The Violence we condone will breed the violence we condemn.

Let me be clear. I have no sympathy for over-dramatic analyses which suggest that the murderers of Sialkot represent the entirety of Pakistan’s 175 million people. They do not. They are the exception and they are the extreme. Exceptions and extremes exist in every society.

But the people who are watching on as the murders happen cannot be exceptions and extremes. They are, indeed, the faces of everyday Pakistan. And that, I think, is what is sending the cold shiver down our spine. The validation of violence that we see in their faces, is a validation of violence we have seen too many times ourselves. No society must ever be judged by the extreme and the fanatic amongst it. But every society should be held responsible for how it deals with and reacts to those extreme and fanatic acts. It is entirely right, therefore, to be asking some very tough questions of ourselves and our own relationship to the violence around us.

It is indeed solace that there is outrage and widespread outrage. Maybe because it was on video the reaction was wall-to-wall and swift. Maybe, and one hopes this is true, people have also begun to speak up more against obvious injustices – as we saw, for example, in the recent Prem Chand case. But it is also true, and maybe even more true, that the voyeuristic element still dominates the discourse. Most true of all is the fact that those who were at the scene seemed not much outraged at all. The outrage of the rest of us, rightly placed as it may be, comes way too late to be of much use to Mughees and Muneeb.

On this blog we have had to write too often about how society is slipping into an increasing acceptance, even justification, of violence. Syed Abbas Raza recently wrote about the shrinking civility in society and we actually declared 2007 as a year of ‘angst and anger.’ Indeed, we struggle with the tantrums of anger in our comment pages every day. Too many people seem too angry, at too many things, too much of the time. Angry enough to attack each other’s integrity. It is not enough to say that we disagree with someone, it seems necessary to inflict pain on those we disagree with – if not physical violence, then the emotional violence of words purposefully constructed to hurt. That, of course, is a small matter. But at the base of this small matter is a big big problem. The problem of anger in society. And anger when mixed with a validation of violence and a disregard, disrespect and distrust of all institutions of state, becomes a really deadly cocktail.

Maybe as we angrily express outrage over what happened in Sialkot – as we rightly should – we should also take a moment to think about how we – and, again, by ‘we’, I do not mean the government or authorities, I mean ‘we’: as in me and you – have become such a violence prone society: violence in the name of religious difference, violence in the name of politics, violence in the name of ideology, and violence even in the name of justice!

100 Comments on “Of Sialkot and Civility: The Violence We Condone Breeds The Violence We Condemn”

  1. Zubair says:
    August 23rd, 2010 1:08 am

    Good post. You are right in making the question about US.

    All the condemnation from people is just crocodile tears. We make heroes out of people who throw shoes… what if they had thrown a bomb? Same is the case with this Sialkot incident, we made heroes out of the laathi-waali Lal Masjid women when they took the law into their own hands and kidnapped people, so now that someone in Sialkot takes the law in their own hand, what is the difference?

    We are just hypocrites. There is so much violence that we ourselves encourage that this is the logical conclusion of that.

  2. August 23rd, 2010 1:10 am

    This nation has become a beast. The damage in now beyond repair. I remember how people appreciated the burning of robbers and when I said that this is not a good practice, we’ll have to pay for that, they went as far as abusing me. Now see what happened. Call anyone a robber and beat them to death. I am feeling sick!

    I wonder what kind of people resides in Daska, in the video, I saw a barely 12 year kid beating the corpse of one of the brother with club.

    If the Government failed to take a serious and strict action against those involved, we’ll have to witness these brutal murder as a routine.

    I am feeling ashamed to be a Pakistani today.

  3. Baig says:
    August 23rd, 2010 1:10 am

    What happened in Sialkot was inhuman and with the police watching. You should focus on why the police did not do anything rather than focus on people standing by. What could they do?

  4. Faizan says:
    August 23rd, 2010 1:12 am

    It is the fault of the government. Zardari should be hanged.

  5. Kamran says:
    August 23rd, 2010 1:20 am

    Those who did this, including those who looked one and made videos and were taking pictures should all be lynched themselves and hung from trees. Even that would be too little for them.

  6. Saadia says:
    August 23rd, 2010 1:26 am

    @Zubair.
    Good point about the Lal Masjid.
    What those women were doing their with the kidnappings and spreading fears and going around with Laathis was also taking law into their own hands. And yet people think they were heroes. I guess anyone who thinks the Lal Masjid women were heroes would also be singing praises of the these brutal killers, since they both did the same thing – took the law into their own hands for ‘speedy justice.’

  7. August 23rd, 2010 1:29 am

    @Baig and @Faizain
    Stop blaming police and government, we have proved that us Awaam are far more worst than them.

    “What could they do?”

    1- They could have stopped the people who were beating the young innocent boys with hands,

    2- Or may be they could have stopped them by telling them that what they’re doing is wrong,

    3- Or perhaps they could have abstained themselves from enjoying and making vidz with their mobile and handy cams

    4- Or least they could have done is watching silently rather than advising those butchers on how and where to beat. I can clearly hear in video a guy saying “moun per maro” (hit him in the face).

    What people at Sialkot did have put whole humanity into a shame.

  8. Mus says:
    August 23rd, 2010 1:38 am

    I waited 3 days for Adil to put up this post on this ghastly incident.
    Firstly I totally agree with Zubair that general public is hands in hands in promoting this type of barbaric, violent culture.They clapped when people set on fire two dacoits in Karachi recently.Punjab police seems to have recently grown fond of doing this to seek admiration from the higher ups.

    BUT,how did we arrive into this?This is all happening when the common man has lost all hopes in securing justice.Dacoits being arrested and later set free after police were bribed is nothing new in Pakistan.

    I was in Pakistan recently and our car got stolen.The SHO told us,we will get our car after 3 days,which we did but not until everything inside was taken out.Police is shamelessly involved in car-lifting,burglaries and dacoities.

    That police is involved in heinous crimes is also not new in Pakistan.But to actually order and supervise ghastly,horrible torture on the streets is a new,dangerous phenomena as it has unfolded in Sialkot last week.
    The latest on the story is that the whole Sialkot police force is doing its best to save its skin and is going out of the way to mess up and confuse the whole investigation by spilling different versions of the incident.
    Atleast 3 different versions of the incident have so far been floated.
    Just a night before, the elder brother,Hafiz Mughees had conducted the taraweeh in the neighbourhood masjid as he was a hafiz himself.

  9. Zubair says:
    August 23rd, 2010 1:38 am

    @Kamran
    DO you even read what you are writing!!!!!

    So, the way you want to deal with brutality is by being even more brutal!!!!

    I guess you are no better than those murderers who did this!

  10. Mohammad Asim Bhatti says:
    August 23rd, 2010 1:43 am

    Very good post, Sir.
    How many times have I read a post here condemning some sort of violence – against Ahmedis or against Christians or against women or again wifes by husbands and so on. And each time some idiots come and start defending it in name of culture or religion or whatever.
    And then we make heroes out of Lal Masjid types and others have said.
    This was the result of all this type of attitudes.

  11. Shamyl says:
    August 23rd, 2010 2:33 am

    While some people are blaming politicians and others police. Let me say that this blame game proves nothing. We as human beings, Pakistanis and Muslims have reached our lowest point. We all are guilty and we all must be ashamed of ourselves. When you do not care about humanity, moral values and sanctity of the holy month of Ramadan then you deserve to be disgusted, disrespect and isolated. We blame west for their moral standards and what not but we are not ready to take measure of our own actions and values. No wonder we are fast becoming the most hated and disgusted nation on this planet, and deservingly so.

  12. AHsn says:
    August 23rd, 2010 3:51 am

    Aitezaz Ahsan in his book “Indus Valley Saga and the making of Pakistan” writes the characteristic of Indus Valley People as [they are always sympathetic to victim but they respect and admire the powerful.]

    Are they not still the same?

  13. Fahad says:
    August 23rd, 2010 5:12 am

    Good point by commenter on Lal Masjid.

    They were doing the exact same think as these killers and ended up by having even more people killed.

  14. August 23rd, 2010 5:30 am

    Some comments from the ATP Facebook Page:

    - “We have become desensitized to violence – that’s why.”
    - “Good writeup. You are write, the anger is in all of us. Everyone is ready to marro and maaro and galli galoch, even for the smallest thing. We have all created this society and we are to blame also.”
    - “By the way, I agree with the comment on your main ATP page about Lal Masjid and the burqa wallis, they were no different from the killers of Sialkot. They took law into their own hands and started kidnapping and holding people as vigilantes and taking law in their own hand. The killers in Sialkot did the same but even more brutal, but both are the same. We made heroes of the Lal masjid people and that is the mentality that led to this in Sialkot.”
    - “Actually the ‘Lynch Mob’ phenomena is global. US had its share of lynch mobs by KKK to kill negro’s. More recently in India an Australian preacher and his two young sons were burnt alive by extremists Hindus! So barring the brutality of the actual act itself, by no means it represents what Pakistan is or who Pakistanis are. Having said that, let LAW of the land take its course to punish the culprits.”
    - “Every moment, its getting a shame for me, belonging to the genetic stock of so called Humans. I wish I were blind before watching all that, deaf before hearing about it, died before knowing all that. The way we are ‘evolving’, soon would make us cannibals. It injured me spiritually, still I am alive. How senseless am I. How cruel am I. Please kill me in the same way to bring ease to the torments it brought. There is no other way to heal my spiritual wounds. ”
    - “there are plenty of examples of lynch mobs in Pakistan. If the victims were Christians, Shi’as, or Ahmadis, I bet a lot of Pakistani Muslims would have either been indifferent or at worst, jubilant.”
    - “as there are thousands similar examples around the world in almost every culture and religion! But that does not make the remainder of nationalities under which such crimes committed either brutal or savage!!”
    - “what appalls me is the apathy of the onlookers, has courage become so weak?”
    - “they killed 180 ahmediyas in lahore. nobody protested since it was indirectly approved by the pakistan statute”
    - “this post may clear the “it is not us” syndrome we Pakis are suffering from!! if stiill someone fails to under stand Adil Najam!!”
    - “but the question is had any of us been there, would we have done something to stop those guys and i think the answer is no because all of us know that we could have been beaten to death too had we intervened. Police take money from one party, kill people from other party and show it as police muqabla. why? this is because justice is nonexistent in our society. until and unless we have an eye for an eye, this thing is not going to stop. look at the target killings in Karachi…aik kai badlay main 50-60 log mar diyee jatai hain and no one cares…..look at the missing people from Balochistan and other parts of the country…..kitnai saal hogai is issue ko and no one cares….look at the drone attacks killing civilians and no one cares………..i mean where is justice…human life has no value in our society…..jungle ka qanoon hai and survival of the fittest is what matters”
    - “Realize that life isn’t always fair
    Accept what you must and change
    What you can.
    Think before you act.A moment of
    Carelessness or anger can cause
    Years of anguish and regret .”
    - “How to live among senseless people. Hard to believe. Killing people in mosques brutelly murdering in streets. How can we call ourselves muslims. We have no respect for life. Pakistanis need to do something. How can people allow this. We participate in big rallies that is for change in politics etc. Why can’t a long march go for innocent killing in pakistan whether it is karachi, peshawar or silakot. Change your attitude immediately or your nation will be a history (GOd forbid).”
    - “maybe you were sleeping when the Ahmadi mosque was attacked. For those who were not blinded by their own hate or in denial, there was a huge outcry all over, including on this forum and some powerful posts here. The ones who spread needless propaganda one side or other are equally bad. So, please stop this nonsense of “nobody protested.” You may not have (and shame on you for that), but I did and so did many others.”

  15. Iftikhar says:
    August 23rd, 2010 5:39 am

    I just read the older post you mention about people burning robbers in Karacchi. It is as horrifying as this and actually even more because of teh comments there from readers. But why we did not react to this the same way except ATP?

  16. KK says:
    August 23rd, 2010 5:48 am

    First a refreshingly balanced take on a powder keg of a subject.

    Kudos to Adil for keeping his head about him in the face of such barbarity.

    My reaction was extreme. I condemned the entire 175 million for this act including myself. I still don’t feel like letting ourselves off the hook. However, I agree with Adil, that there has been such an outcry and swift action is news itself and its cause for hope.

    I have remained a bystander for far too long. Hopefully no more. I am starting with donating money and computers to HRCP who have been doing a stand up job in this space and canvassing my friends to do the same.

    I never really thought of giving money to them before. It was absent from my priority list. Today it is on the top of my priority list. I know. How could I have been so indifferent or ignorant !

    For me the math is simple. The chances of this happening to my kids may be remote but the chances of something similar happening to someone period are not. It is nearly certain that before the year is out something like this would happen again and again and again. I am not prepared to flip to the next channel or the next page. I will stay on this page for as long as is necessary.

    My friends and I are reaching out to HRCP to start contributing to their capacity to fight injustices like these.

    Mughees and Munib are martyrs. They have shocked us out of our indifference. We must honor their sacrifice by not only taking stock of the brutalities that we have known about and been silent on but also mobilizing our time and resources behind organizations that work to make sure that such injustices are properly punished through due process.

    Mughees and Munib are of sons of noble parents. That has been on display by the patience and fortitude that the parents have displayed in dealing with this most terrible of personal calamities. They are an example to the rest of us by their dignity, fortitude and civility. They have maintained their humanity, but that has not weakened their resolve to bring the perpetrators to justice and to raise a voice against rampant injustice itself.

    They are our role models. Their example of committed and patient perseverance is worthy of emulation. I have no doubt they will prevail.

    To honor them we should stand with them in their quest for justice and close ranks against injustice, intolerance, violence and lawlessness with Zarab e Kari o Zarab e Kaleem.

    Khudi main doub kay Zarab e Kaleem paida kar.

  17. siyasi aadmi says:
    August 23rd, 2010 7:24 am

    Adil,

    I think another aspect of this is the negative impact of media and citizen journalism which most channels have been promoting.

    Why the person who was recording, never stopped recording but should have stopped the person who was beating.

    Besides that I can understand the reaction of the people because the way our society has regenerated in such a way that people avoid being involved because it turned out that they received the wrath from both sides and got killed in many instances.

    where people are quick to start recording the scene so that they can send it to The private channels who are in this mess of ratings.

    We should also do a post on this bane channel ratings and as to how it is compromising the principles what to show and report and what not.

  18. Afzal Ansari says:
    August 23rd, 2010 8:05 am

    Were was this anger when 80 Ahmedi brothers were killed? Where was this anger when Christians were killed? I know many of you supported their killing or just kept quiet. Now when one of your own is killed, suddenly everyone is angry. Shame on Pakistan!

  19. Obaid1 says:
    August 23rd, 2010 8:59 am

    Just wondering if the beating of these Jamaat Islami related boys was any different from Islami Jamiat-e-Talba beating to almost death of the professor recently in PU, and beating to death of a student in Peshawar University over music by IJT recently. May be some JI person can elaborate.

  20. readinglord says:
    August 23rd, 2010 9:40 am

    That joker of a minister of interior, referring to the charge that the two brothers were trying to loot a house, says that even if the brothers were guilty, the public had no right to take the law into their own hands. “They cannot act as …the investigator, prosecutor, judge and executioner.”

    What non-sense!

    Should we allow robbers a free hand to take over any thing; threatening to fuck our daughters, kill our sons in front of our eyes and condemn us to spend rest of our life paying to the lawyers and waiting outside the court rooms of the corrupt judges.

    Kudos to Butter-wals for making a positive addition in the ‘liable to lynching list’ by including robbery-accused, besides, Ahmadies and blasphemy-accused therein.

  21. Shahid says:
    August 23rd, 2010 10:59 am

    It was very sad….

  22. Ali says:
    August 23rd, 2010 11:00 am

    it was very sad incident in the the month of Ramadan….

  23. Shahid says:
    August 23rd, 2010 11:02 am

    I don’t understand how come peoples can do that, we our touching the edeges of the end of time…. May ALLAH Bless us…

  24. meher says:
    August 23rd, 2010 11:05 am

    “Lynch them, burn them, hang them etc etc”.. its brilliant how the society that has allowed/caused lawlessness to exist and have strengthened it by minor/small/large acts of breaking the law (by not following traffic rules or bribing officials to get ahead in life or generally not respecting to the rule of law) are ready to stand on the pulpit and ask for heads to role because the television footage of this particular incident has rattled them a bit and has made them uncomfortable… one can ask for the culprits to be apprehended and punished according to the law but one may not ask for public hangings, lynching etc etc and the reason why one cant ask for this is because then there is no difference between us and the angry insane individuals who barbaricly killed the two boys.. we kill them in this way and we justify someone else on the other side of the divide to kill us the same way!!

    Talk of justice, restoration of civil liberties and rights which have been awarded to each citizen of this country under the constitution…learn to stand up for rights of others and your own.. learn to speak for the underdog, learn to speak gently but firmly and to stand by a value system that strengthens “life” rather than tearing it down, learn to build, learn to grow, learn to stengthen institutions so that they work for the ordinary citizens of this nation and not just for the few , learn to support those who stand up for the weak and learn the difference between madness and sanity .

  25. sabahat says:
    August 23rd, 2010 11:28 am

    this brutal incident is an outcome of our pure hypocrite behavior in society.
    ok the police is definitely corrupt and senseless. but what about the people who just kept on filming or watching the damn bloody heroic act as if it’s a circus…. HAM ZINDA QAUM HEIN???? sure?

    secondly, not s single person comes on street when when innocent ahmadi and Christian pakistnis were massacred in lahore n gojra, toll crossed 80 in lhr, but ZINDA QAUM stayed home watching tv.
    and now when with the media’s alliance every politician is visiting sialkot, our HR activists are trying to wake up.
    thanks our elite civil society. and THANKS to media of course.

  26. Imran says:
    August 23rd, 2010 11:39 am

    Maybe there is justice in this world after all. You kill Ahmedis all the time. And this Adil Najam has never once spoken a word against that. Now he comes to shed crocodile tears on this. Serves all you guys right. Curse be on all of Pakistan. You were created by the efforts of us Ahmedis and you will be destroyed because of our curse.

  27. Vinnie says:
    August 23rd, 2010 11:42 am

    It is Horrifying. How can people be so cruel ! This loss can never be compensated and I pray from heart that all the witnesses of this incident, who enjoyed it, be punished severely by God. I was just shaken to see the incident footage.

  28. what says:
    August 23rd, 2010 11:45 am

    And then we ask… why did the floods come!

  29. August 23rd, 2010 2:17 pm

    How we became such a violence prone society? Oh it is easy. You answer it yourself. You say violence condone breeds violence condemn. Ordinary citizen of Pakistan has been taking the violence from police, jageerdaars, industrialists, dubai-returns, military, etc. All that violence dealt on innocent people over so many decades; I am surprised that Pakistan has not seen a revolution or at least a revolt from the public. Now I think it is time. Pent up anger will and should come out of all this anger will lead to some very bad mental and social problems.

  30. August 23rd, 2010 3:03 pm

    And they didn`t even know why they were being killed…Can somebody imagine that? This is the cruelest thing I have ever seen in my life..:(

    Thanx for this excellent article (as usual)..I already shared it on Facebook because everyone in Pakistan must read it..

    You said everything I would like to say…I just would like to add a thing, that sometimes people sounds so hypocrite for me:

    WHY nobody complains and show so much compassion when a couple or a woman is sentenced to be stoned to death in a crowd only because their crime is that they had an “affair”? It`s just an example ok?!

    Why nobody shows so much mercy on the womans victims of acid burnt?

    What if instead two muslim brothers, they were Christians, Hindus, Jews etc?

    I know everyone is heart touched by this barbaric tragedy, but It`s time to rethink all our values and our hypocrisy ..It`s now or never, otherwise Pakistan will be condemned forever to dark…

    I hope these kids didn`t die in vain and after few days everything will be forgotten…I hope atleast something is gonna change in this country and in its people mind after this horrible tragedy …Nothing will bring them back and nothing is going to minimize their families suffering n pain, but from now they must be the flag of a cause, the cause of JUSTICE, consciousness, citizenship and Freedom!

    WAKE UP PAKISTAN!

  31. Obaid1 says:
    August 23rd, 2010 3:56 pm

    Could this event be a divine message to Jamaat Islami? ‘As you sow so shall you reap’? After all it’s the Jamaatis who started and are experts in this sort of lynching. Chickens coming home to roost?

  32. Yahya says:
    August 23rd, 2010 4:33 pm

    I can only assume that people commenting here have not actually read the post they are commenting on. As Adil said, they are themselves indulging in the same behavior of violence through words and spreading anger and hate that they are supposedly condemning.

  33. Mus says:
    August 23rd, 2010 6:17 pm

    What a shame someone has actually tried to blame Jamaat-e-Islami for this barbaric act.How can you steep so low?

    What about women burnt to death with acid,fire?What party did they belong to?
    A linguistic party based in Karachi has committed numerous such acts,in the days when there was a single TV channel,hence no one knows.

  34. farawaypaki says:
    August 23rd, 2010 6:47 pm

    It is a very sad incident.
    It happened on 15th and now it is in media after 3 days, so if there was no video nobody would have known.
    What would have gone over the hearts of there parents.
    The title of article is wrong, it should say the “barbaric pakistanis at there best”
    We all know what will happen to arrested people they will somehow released on certain fractured evidences and nobody will care after few days when politicians find a new incident for photo ops.
    I wonder where are those champions of Islam mullah who only thinks that islam is labeling kafir and killing people.

  35. teena says:
    August 23rd, 2010 6:51 pm

    very well said Mishal

    I have read comments where ppl are saying, it was so wrong cause the brothers were not guilty, were hafiz-quran, and were fasting.
    My question is
    so what if they were guilty?
    so what if they were not fasting?
    so what if they were of any other religion?

    this incident is not wrong because they met our standards of good muslim kids. this incident is wrong because they were two human beings

    Mishal you are right, I have seen sane people in religious fervor condoning stoning, and proudly espousing and enacting values that justifies mistreating women cause they “deserve” it, killing qadyanees, justifying killing for blasphemy, and the list goes on

    if you watch this american program “what would you do” on you tube, you will see how there are always people in USA who will stand up for right and stop the oppression on the streets.

    i am sure in our version of what would you do, we will have heartless crowds cheering the oppressors. The problem is the voice of sensibility is no where to be heard. we are a nation breeding our values in a complex and gruesome mixture of fundamentalist islam + vadeera system + mushreqi “ghariat aka baigharat

    in short our values are a vibrant mix of cruel, bad, and ugly

    insaaniyat ka dur dur tuk naam o nishaan naheen. ager kuch hai tu bus jhotee iqdaar, jhotee rawayaat, and now thanks to saudi arabia and egypt the draconic version of islam

    some ppl died in bomb blasts, some in drone attacks, some in floods, and some in vigilnatee violence. The rest is either a crazy mob or silent cheerers.

    In west at least there is compassion for their own people. We have no compassion for even our own selves. But yet we have to blame the rest of the world for our issues.

    It is high time that we smell the stink of spetic tank that we are living in and start rethinking our values.

    if we want justice and fairness we will have to offer it everyone irrespective of race, color, social status, and religion.

  36. Adnan says:
    August 23rd, 2010 9:03 pm

    @Mus:Ignorants like Obaid1 are the proofs of what Adil has been condemning. It also proves that we all are “Talibans” one way or other and never miss a chance to exhibit our radical and extreme parts. I would not get surprise if elements like Obaid1 blame Jamat-e-Islami and Mullahs for their own existence too.

    No wonder incidents like this and others happening around are the examples of why Pakistan has been suffering today due to massive floods. As Allah says Himself:


    But they turned away [refusing], so We sent upon them the flood of the dam, and We replaced their two [fields of] gardens with gardens of bitter fruit, tamarisks and something of sparse lote trees. [By] that We repaid them because they disbelieved. And do We [thus] repay except the ungrateful?(34:16-17)

    some wannabe intellectuals says that it’s all “Science”, offcourse Science is about studying of what God decided for the universe but saying that God does not intervene just proves lack of knowledge of science itself.

  37. readinglord says:
    August 23rd, 2010 9:23 pm

    All said on the barbarism displayed on the screen by the electronic media, but what about the ‘darindagi’ shown by the robbers when they break in a house and overpower its inmates. What they do in a house is such darindagi that if the victims get hold of the robbers or even one accused of it they would prefer to do whatever is in their power instead of going to the so called law-enforcing and justice-providing governmental agencies.

    As for our media, it is highly perverted. First it gave the news of the attempt of robbery and of a young man killed by robbers. It also gave the news about two robbers caught by the people. They afterwards forgot all this when they got a more news-worthy story of the lynching of the two young men and started media trial of the people-trial. They forgot their duty to suuply answer to the questions raised by this whole affair from committal of robbery to the lynching.

    Questions arise: In this case the brothers were accused of robbery and the people were full of hatred for them. They belonged to a well-known respectable family of a nearby village, but no body came forward to save them or, surprisingly, show any sympathy on the ground to them during the entire lynching operation which went on for hours together .

    Why?

  38. Obaid1 says:
    August 23rd, 2010 10:28 pm

    @Adnan (Siddiqui?): Truth hurts doesnt it?

  39. Aslam Mian says:
    August 23rd, 2010 10:31 pm

    Very good writeup. But seems to be wasted on most of your readers. They seem to be already doing exactly what you were writing about, using their words as tools of hatred for others. Specially sad to see my fellow Ahmedis also doing that. We who have been subject of hate by others should not be doing that which we do not wish to be done to us. Please, people, specially my Ahmedi brothers, read the post and understand it. Hate kills. We should know better than to spread it now.

  40. Pakistani says:
    August 23rd, 2010 10:59 pm

    Shame on you “readinglord”
    You are the new “troll in chief” at ATP. You only spread hate and anger. I am sure you would have gladly joined the mob to do the killing if you could. It is people like you whose “brutality of the few” this post is about.

  41. Nihari says:
    August 23rd, 2010 11:32 pm

    A bit of backdrop of all this.

    Sialkot police under the able leadership of Gujranwala RPO Zulfiqar cheema has been known for encounters. In fact cheema was even praised by our CJ Justice Chaudhry. He was the one who kill nattu goraya, who was under police custody and moved his body in a procession. he then uploaded his confession on youtube telling names like Justice Bilal of Islamabad high court who was one of the oponent of Justice Ifekhar Choundry. For this and his other commendable deeds he received more praise from CJ. So he did more encounters. His subourdincates became the judge jury and exurtioner….so whatever mishap happened with those poor boys, the police acted like it acted before. So why such a fuss by the CJ now…..Isnt he one of the responsible too..The sumoto champion didnt thought of the earlier encounters first. So now when an innocent dies, this is another way to get more headlines for him. I feel ashamed for all the jorunalist who were singing praise for Cheema…..Ansar Abbasi and his gang of usual idiots…jo karo gay woh bharo gay

  42. Nihari says:
    August 23rd, 2010 11:34 pm

    one more funny point. when this news became public…cheema acted inncocent and blame all this on the events in Karachi and forgot all the encountered he did. ONe more fact…His brother is a retired justice of the high court

  43. Mus says:
    August 23rd, 2010 11:55 pm

    Everyone please keep an eye on this PML(N)guy Khawaja Asif and watch his statements and his movements.I’ll tell you why:

    DPO Waqar Chauhan is said to be a distant relative of Khwaja Asif and he helped him get this job in Sialkot.
    During the last elections Chauhan helped and was intrumental in securing an election win for Khawaja Asif.Now when Chauhan is in trouble,he is looking at Asif to save his skin.
    It is said that Khawaja Asif is in direct contact with DPO Chauhan on his mobile phone and giving him instructions how best to fabricate a valid case against the two mazloom and masoom brothers.

    When Khawaja Asif paid a token visit to the brothers’ home,he refused to openly sympathise with the family and when the aggrieved,told him that DPO Chauhan was the mastermind behind the savagery,Khawaja Asif told them “I cannot endorse your viewpoint,as I have supporters on both sides”By ‘supporters’ he was referring to the other family where the dacoity took place and with whom the brothers’ had no link whatsoever.
    If,DPO Chauhan gets away with it all,we can be rest assured it would be Khwaja Asif’s efforts.

  44. Ravi says:
    August 24th, 2010 12:17 am

    Contribution of Satanic Taliban like cults to the human civilization:

    1. Lynched and castrated former Afghan president Najibullah and his brother. Hung their mutilated dead body from an electric post.

    2. Dug up the buried body of a Pir and mutilated it.

    3. 5 months pregnant women given 200 lashes, tortured her for 3 days and then killed her( happened last week)

    4. Hanged an 8 year boy from a tree.

    You don’t need more examples to prove that these insects are indeed satanic.

  45. Mus says:
    August 24th, 2010 12:25 am

    Views on News
    Dr.Shahid Masood visits the bereaved family and interviews the family members.Must watch:

    http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?41867-Views-On-News-22nd-August-2010-Sialkot-Incident-In-Murdered-Brother-s-Home

  46. Mus says:
    August 24th, 2010 12:35 am

    Ravi:
    We can discuss the Taliban some other time(although they have been over-discussed).This thread is meant to condemn the barbaric savagery perpetrated on two innocent brothers,so lets keep it restricted to this only.

  47. jesus says:
    August 24th, 2010 2:41 am

    There was a study in 70s where some kids were made warden
    and some prisoners without any push the warden kids started
    torturing the prisoners in a week.

    Pakistan is modern day Sparta. Militarize your entire society
    for 60 years. Glorify jihad. Glorify your superiority to Bharat.
    Rape it. Regain lost glory. live in False history. Civil society made into another military asset.

    So Now you wonder why what is happening to your country.
    Now educated want democracy and secularization. Just
    empty talk. Ringing your hand and curing your God.

  48. KK says:
    August 24th, 2010 3:40 am

    The program Reporter on Dawn News disclosed the following fact on their program yesterday which Mr. Nisar is highlighting below. It has been doing the rounds on media on more than one occassion :

    Nisar Khattak on August 21st, 2010 :
    More awesome than the culprits was the bureaucratic reply of DPO Sialkot while appearing before CJP. ‘You cannot suspend me as I am CSP officer’. Of course, CJP could not do so as per law, therefore, he called in Secretary Establishment to do it.

    The laws need updating as well.

  49. KK says:
    August 24th, 2010 4:46 am

    @Jesus : Great bit of information. Did you find any studies that may highlight how to reverse such a trend.

    @Mus : Right on bro. However, savagery is sprawled on a much bigger canvas. This is the time to explore all its nuances. Need to channel this energy. The boys sacrificed themselves so that we can wake up and take stock of savagery in all its forms.

    @Ravi : “An 8 year old hung from a tree”. That is disturbing. You are right, it is beyond sad. And the end of the thread that can sort these knots are these two brothers. We start with Sialkot and go all the way back to Hakim Saeed. Silence is a luxury we can no longer afford.

    @Mus : This could be the end of line Khawaja Asif and for that matter Shahbaz Sharif. He can land up in prison for obstructing justice with his fellow perpetrators if he is indeed involved behind the scenes to help the DPO escape the consequences.

    @Nihari : Quite the investigator you are. This is great info. Again the canvas of savagery is wider than we originally thought. I did not know this. There is this mafia that has us in a strangle hold. This is the time for Tehreek Insaf and HRCP to make their presence felt.

    @Mishal : You are so right !

  50. An Ahmadi Muslim says:
    August 24th, 2010 6:56 am

    “In the backdrop of the public lynching and then hanging of brothers Hafiz Mueez Butt and Muneeb Butt in Sialkot on August 15, a journalist writing in an English language daily asked the following questions about the murderers: (i) Are they human? (ii) Are they Muslim? and (iii) Are they really Pakistani? (The writer thought they were none of these.

    These questions are evidence of the lowest depth of misery, hollowness, and dishonesty to which some Pakistani journalists have taken their profession. Of course, these murderers are human, Muslim, and Pakistani. The hollowness of the word “really” reminds me of Kurtz’s outburst of “The horror, the horror!” in Conrad’s Heart of Darkness. Why is there so much hype about this lynching in both the media and the judiciary? Is it something that came out of outer space and so we cannot accept it? Do we human-Muslim-Pakistanis not lynch and destroy unarmed people while the entire nation and national institutions react from blatantly cheering on to finding crooked justifications for our sins and crimes because “Muslims cannot do it!”)

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20108\24\story_24-8-2010_pg3_5

  51. Farrukh says:
    August 24th, 2010 8:09 am

    Very thoughtful writeup. But what use. Look at the comments here, they are no different from the burqa kidnappers of Lal Masjid or the mob in Sialkot or the Taliban. Bickering and namecalling. I bet if you put all these commenters in the same room they will start fist fighting too. And none of them seems to have read, let alone understood, what you wrote.

  52. Humaira says:
    August 24th, 2010 8:10 am

    HOW TRUE: “Too many people seem too angry, at too many things, too much of the time.”

  53. KK says:
    August 24th, 2010 8:56 am

    @Imran : You are right we are all hypocrites to varying degrees. I never spoke up like this against almost any atrocity, including the burning of robbers in karachi. This kind of uproar is unprecedented. I feel your indignation. But please don’t curse this country. This is all we have. The relation of humanity is the strongest of all. And the language of love the most powerful.

    No decent person should be willing to accept the blood of two innocents to quench their thirst for retribution. That would place us in the mob that murdered humanity in cold blood.

    We can all learn something from the parents of Mughees and Muneeb. They have not called for blood nor demanded retribution. They have stated their wish as : no mothers’ son should get this treatment ever again. They did not lose their humanity in the fact of grief. Although it is extremely extremely difficult not to do so. That is why the Parents are true heroes and role models for us.

  54. August 24th, 2010 9:00 am

    Well, in my humble opinion I think theres only one solution for Pakistan = EDUCATION!

  55. Amjad says:
    August 24th, 2010 9:57 am

    @Aslam Mian:

    Hate kills. We should know better than to spread it now.

    Of course hate kills but condemning act of spreading hate and hateful groups is not spreading hate. Not condemning such groups and keep crying about such incidents is like leaving the tap open and crying about the wet floor.

    That is why condemning hateful groups who spewed hate and indulged in lynching and mob rule for the last sixty years such as Jamaat Islami is the essential need of the day. This would be the beginning on the road to eradicating hate. If we had done this earlier and taken the issue of hate spewing and mob rule by the horn, these two boys would not have lost their lives. Hateful groups must be condemned, taken as participants to such incidents and named and shamed. Hopefully this will encourage them to mend ways for the benefit of our future generations. If the earlier generations had taken the same stance and discouraged hate groups our present situation would have been much better.

  56. Adnan says:
    August 24th, 2010 11:10 am

    @Obaid1: why do you curse Talibans when they hang someone in Afghanistan while you yourself belong to same brethren? Your step bro,Some talib might say same thing to you,”Truth hurts,doesn’t it”?

  57. Obaid1 says:
    August 24th, 2010 11:42 am

    @Obaid1: why do you curse Talibans when they hang someone in Afghanistan while you yourself belong to same brethren? Your step bro,Some talib might say same thing to you,”Truth hurts,doesn’t it”?

    @Adnan: What are you talking about? I curse both Taliban and Jamaat Islami for their brutality and for contributing massively to what our society is now to which the two boys became victims. Jamaat Islami and other talibanisation promoters must take responsibility for this mob rule mentality and its effects thereof.

  58. Aslam Mian says:
    August 24th, 2010 11:54 am

    Amjad.

    I am talking about the hatred that is being spread in the comments as we attack each others views.

    Its easy to ‘condemn’ this act… it is much more difficult, as Adil Najam wrote, to control our own language and act decently and without the violence of words.

    Just read the comments here and how people are going on attacking each other, how are we different from the mob in Sialkot.

  59. montanan says:
    August 24th, 2010 12:03 pm

    an american comments…..zohaib is correct..education is key….. the idea that robbers are now marytrs is silly….that their lives and deaths may inform, educate and change behaviours,yes

  60. Imran says:
    August 24th, 2010 12:16 pm

    Are you fast becoming a Soulless Nation?

  61. Adam Insaan says:
    August 24th, 2010 1:06 pm

    As humans we have a responsibility.
    If I stand still, without doing anything and exempla gratiae
    2 persons are beating someone …..if I don`t do anything
    ….I have some responsibility for what happened.

    At least I can say ….something
    …..or …….. do …….. something .

    As humans we have responsibility at individual level.
    We are social beings.
    And nobody should be “Primus inter Pares”.

  62. Adnan says:
    August 24th, 2010 1:41 pm


    I curse both Taliban and Jamaat Islami for their brutality and for contributing massively to what our society is now.

    So are you admitting that your own brutality,radicalism and inhumane attitude which you exhibited in your comments,is the result of Post Afghan War elements ?Why did not you recover yourself then? Shouldn’t you and your partners,JI and Talibans(which you are accusing atm) be admitted in some rehabilitation center?

  63. KK says:
    August 24th, 2010 1:47 pm

    The picture that is emerging from the inquiry is that these two boys, from a very respectable local family, were victims of mistaken or false identification by a youth at the mob scene. They were on their way to play cricket after eating sehri. They saw this mob on the way and slowed down to see what is going on. The last error they ever made. Tragedy upon tragedy.

  64. Watan Aziz says:
    August 24th, 2010 7:11 pm

    I guess, this is the difference between the Faiz – Faraz crowd and myself (the one who adheres to the Great Allama’s style and message of hope).

    The Faiz – Faraz crown is depressing. Honestly, there seems to be too much influence of Faiz – Faraz at ATP.

    They go helpless and hapless within minutes. And they offer no solutions, except, the “hum dakhay gay”; the classic answer of eternity. Totally useless unless you want to cry. (I know this, because I have done it.) They not only find the glass half empty, they also manage to see green grass on the other side of the lawn by looking though the empty portion of the glass!

    Cry.

    Crying.

    Hands thrown up.

    Hand wringing.

    Enough, I say.

    I, find problems with Pakistani system of governance but not the people of Pakistan. Sure, there are criminals running around. But that is part of the every deal, every where. There always were criminals, there always will be criminals. There will be criminals at the top, criminals in the middle and criminals at the bottom. Part of the game.

    A good system of governance knows how to deal with it. Pakistan has a bad system of governance.

    There is no crime committed in Pakistan that has not been committed elsewhere and vice versa. But that is neither an excuse nor an explanation of the crime. We are focused on Pakistan with a microscope and we are not only going after warts and all, but moles and mole hills too. We all agree that we need a clean up the mess. A fresh start. A new beginning.

    Pakistanis need to change the system; not the people.

    I am convinced that Pakistani people are good, decent, hard working and honest. They are stuck in a bad time warp, that loops back again and again on a bad story; bad page. But that does not change the natural nature of the people.

    And my oft repeated truth, “No nation has a monopoly on goodness and no nation has an exclusive on badness.”

    The “fitra” of Pakistani peoples is good.

    The question is so what is the game changer?

    And the only ones who can fix it, are the educated of Pakistan. And how do they do it? Well, they start by stop blaming every myth they have been sold. And every myth they have bought into.

    No, it is not the uneducated who are the problem.
    No, it is not the poverty that is the problem.
    No, it is not the population planning that is the problem.
    No, it is not the lack of resources that is the problem.
    No, it is not the feudal system that is the problem.
    No, it is not the ignorant mullah who is the problem.
    No, it is not the religion that is the problem.

    Yes, each is an issue but none is the sinker.

    And the biggest myth of all, now in active circulation, “the voilence is condoned”.

    Whoever came up with that idea?

    When was violence ever condoned in Pakistan?

    Yeah, those who committed the violence do condone it and will condone it often. But not the majority. And they certainly are not the majority.

    And silence in a closed, air-tight and locked down society like Pakistan is not an act of condoning it Period

    People who speak can disappear, get beaten up, parents put through ringers. You think West Pakistanis were condoning the “butcher of Dhaka”? Or Pakistanis condone the violence on Ahmedhis, Christians, Hindus? Or violence in Karachi? Or violence in Baluchinstan? Or the violence of vanni? Or the violence on women? Remember when Sultan Musharraf declared something to the effect that if you want to get famous, get raped? Did that work? Hell, he only got to stay (over stay, I say) because the Mr. Mandate tried to commit violence on him. Did the whole Pakistan not rally to Sultan Musharraf’s side? And, amazingly, when he himself forgot the lessons, did the people not rally to the Chief’s side? And I mean, the Chief Justice of Pakistan.

    Pakistanis, like any other peoples in the world will never support violence. Never did, never will.

    It is not Pakistaniat!

    And when I say “the majority has never supported it”, I do not a majority of 50.01%, rather 99.99%.

    Yessiree bob. The majority is muzzled into silence. Bullied into it. Did you ever hear (and watch his body language) any of ursurpers talk? “I will take care of him!” (And that is not a threat, it is a promise; ask Akbar Bhugti, oops, you will have to wait for this one.) Did you ever get an FIR registered? A case heard before a judge on a timely disposition track?

    Ask any party “owner” in Pakistan and he will without coxing indulge in wailings on how he was mistreated and was denied justice. (Now, is that not ironic that the same party “owners” who will self-flagellate for justice denied are actively working to deny justice to others by not expanding the judiciary? Why you ask? Well, a simple reason my dear Watson, they know they will lose more through judiciary than their “changa-manga” incarcerations!)

    The problem my dear friends is simple, lack of equity and justice.

    This is because the educated want to hog the resources. Do not want to share the wealth. Want the resources diverted to the urban areas, the three jinns on the top of the food chain. Three goats and if not three goats, then three goat heads.

    What we need is the educated to see the light of the day and start to ask, what can I give up so that my brother can have it just as well?

    Justice. Equity.

    We need to expand the judiciary so that people do not resort to taking law into their hands. Like in Sailkot. They should know, that whatever is their grievance, it will be heard, it will be addressed. Fairness will prevail.

    And sir, it not vigilante justice. It was vigilante law-breaking-violence. There is no concept of justice in a crime. I was going to let this go, but then I saw it repeated in the post and elsewhere. Please do remove the word justice from your vocab when you use the word “vigilante”.

    But the people who are watching on as the murders happen cannot be exceptions and extremes. They are, indeed, the faces of everyday Pakistan. Sir, I disagree and reject this.

    Now, there are out of controlled events. A sale at a store, out of stock shops, sudden evacuation from an area with limited options. This is why shoppers will crash a door, even maul persons down in trying to get that “one” bargain item. Remember, mothers kicked each other over Barbie dolls? Barbie dolls! It is a problem and the law enforcement authorities work hard to control it.

    Now there is a mob action, egged on by a few and ordinary good folks get all riled up in hysteria. This happens all the time. People might march up to a location and start chanting slogans of hate and vitriol. And there is no solution to this. This is lawlessness. Lawful authorities move in and restore order.

    But then there are law-breaking events. These are willfully led by or sanctioned by authorities who either approve it directly by leading it or indirectly by their silent presence. Perhaps the most gross examples of these in recent memory is Rawanda and Gujrat, in India.

    What happened in Sialkot is an event of third type. (And it should never happen again, anywhere.)

    And they all have one thread in common. People think that by following ordinary course of action, they will not get relief. And when combined with authority presence (religious or civil) it is a shame. Shameful conduct.

    This needs to be addressed. This needs to be changed. This needs to talked about.

    The Sailkot people, wrongly got caught up in the wrong picture. And with police presence, the mob mentality took over. Reason left the scene. Nothing or nobody justifies their lack of humanity. And that is how mob is defined. It does not have humanity. Sailkot mob was violent. It committed violence against humanity.

    What needs to be fixed (and fixed soon) is the Police. The Administration. The Judiciary. The system. It is a system wide failure. The system needs fix’in. The people will be conform automatically.

    When there is perceived justice, justice will prevail. Good in people will emerge.

    And to that effect, that the laws be good and goodly adjudicated. Now that is Godly! “Adl” should have meaning. “Huq” should have weight. “Sabar” should bear fruit.

    Pakistanis are perfectly capable of delivering it. They been there; done that!

    The spirit of 1947!

    The august spirit of 1947!

    The august spirit of selflessness of 1947!

    The august spirit of selflessness and shared sacrifice of 1947!

    The message of Jinnah and the Great Allama.

    I have the audacity of hope, with fierce urgency of now.

  65. NIhari says:
    August 24th, 2010 9:36 pm

    A column in praise of extra judicial killing and encounter specialist

    http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/aug2010-daily/25-08-2010/col4.htm

  66. Mus says:
    August 24th, 2010 10:08 pm

    DPO Chauhan Granted Bail:

    The Lahore High Court on Monday granted bail to Sialkot DPO (district police officer) Waqar Ali Chauhan who is accused of having done nothing to stop the lynching of two teenage brothers Hafiz Mueez Butt and Muneeb Butt by a mob.

    Chohan was said to have been present at the scene on Sunday August 15 where Butt brothers were beaten to death and then their bodies hanged upside down in front of the 1122 rescue office.

    Interestingly, for some unknown reasons, Chohan’s name has not been included in the FIR that was lodged on the lynching incident.

    Chohan has denied he was present at the time the two brothers were lynched, and has alleged that the video footage of the incident was fabricated. He was talking to Dawn outside the courtroom on Monday.

  67. readinglord says:
    August 24th, 2010 11:35 pm

    I saw the footage of the event on YouTube, which showed Nawaz and Shehbaz Sharifain, sitting on either side of the mother of the victims of the lynching. What were they talking was not audible but one gesture, the mother slapping on the hand of Shehbaz and clasping it, looked intriguing to me, not in keeping with the mood of the time.

    Can any body throw light on it?

  68. Mus says:
    August 25th, 2010 12:23 am

    readinglord:
    It was not the mother clasping Shahbaz Sharif’s hand but its the other way round.
    In the clip,Shahbaz Sharif while expressing his sympathy and solidarity with the family,just touched the right hand of the bereaved mother for a moment and then let go.

    Later we can see,the mother keeping her hand away from the right arm rest of the chair for the rest of the footage.She is a dignified woman and she knows how to keep her dignity.She has already gone through a horrible tragedy.
    Do not try to spread your filthy thoughts in this forum.The clip you say and the one I saw can’t be different.

  69. readinglord says:
    August 25th, 2010 2:19 am

    @Muse
    A dirty mind like yous would certainly welcome dirtiness and even justify it.

    I had acually wanted to point to the political fall out of the tragic event whereby two different constituencies got involved in this case, one of MLN (Khaja Asif’s) and the other of PPP (Ms Firdous’s), both apparently siding with their respective voters.

    Or perhaps we saw different clips. I was referring to the one shown, uncensered perhaps, on YouTube with Hindi
    titles, indicating its Indian origin.

    Have peace.

  70. NIhari says:
    August 25th, 2010 10:49 am

    @Watan Aziz

    yaara…khuda ka shukar ada karein kay Allama 1939 mein nikal liya….warna shikwa ka doosra edition chap jata ya Faiz ki Shab gazeeda sahar woh likh detay…..:)

  71. August 25th, 2010 1:24 pm

    A lot of people cursing the people of Pakistan, specially the people standing there but doing nothing. some of them are losing hope in the system (specially expatriates. Funny they’re commenting on this from so far away)
    If you were actually there, you would have done something to stop it? I wish I could see.
    Please think maturely and be realistic. Because cursing those people makes you sound like someone who has spent his/her life inside the house and have no idea of the jungle outside.
    Very frankly, if I were there, I would have done nothing to stop this. You know why? Because if I did, I would have been beaten up too by those 4-5 stick wielding criminals and after they were done, the police standing there would have done the rest to finish me off. My family would have had no means of freeing me from the police. Neither would they have been able to afford the expensive hospital bill (If I was left alive that is). What if my family was dependant on my salray? Do you think people standing over there were from well off backgrounds who could have done something?
    No one standing there can risk it specially in the presence of men in uniform. Check the videos closely. There are some people shouting to stop, with their hands raised in the air. Did that make a difference? They were threatened with a stick too. This doesn’t mean all people standing there doing nothing were equal criminals.

  72. Mus says:
    August 25th, 2010 2:16 pm

    @Syed Saquib,
    It doesn’t matter whether one is here or there.This barbaric act of savagery must be condemned by one and all.After all Islam teaches us to do whatever you can to stop sin,even if it is to speak a few words.
    It is surprising,hordes of youth in Pakistan are planning to go to Sialkot and in their words”avenge”the brutal killing.
    I read posts on youtube,some guys living outside Pakistan,have promised to travel to Sialkot after Ramadhan.
    Whether it will make a difference or not,is not an issue but importantly people have been stunned and they are waking up.
    No one can bring back Mughees and Muneeb but those animals who perpetrated this gruesome act must be punished severely.
    Why not thank the TV networks for bringing this out for everyone to know,otherwise you and I would not be discussing it here.

  73. Obaid1 says:
    August 25th, 2010 2:33 pm

    After all Islam teaches us to do whatever you can to stop sin

    That’s exactly what the mob did. They did everything they could to stop whatever sin they thought the boys had done by discharging an exemplary punishment on the principals of Islamic punishments for other would be sinners. Seems to me, in principle the mob did the Islamic thing.

  74. Farrukh says:
    August 25th, 2010 2:40 pm

    Adil Najam, saw the version of this as the op-ed in The News.

    I thought the stuff you added there about the discussion on TV talk shows and the violence of words used there was spot on. Very pertinent. You should also add that here.

  75. bhitai says:
    August 25th, 2010 5:27 pm

    In Pakistan, the biradri system is strong, and inter-clan rivalries can be really nasty. This incident can be *almost* completely explained if you consider this a tussle between two clans (according to some, jatts vs butts). The jatts exacted a brutal revenge on the two brothers who they blamed for the killing of their clansman (one named Bilal).

    I am not from Punjab, but I think I have a pretty good idea, based on 2 decades of reading urdu papers, that these internecine rivalries are the norm, rather than exceptions, in our pseudo-urbanized society. What’s exceptional about this incident though, is that it was captured on video. Otherwise, rest assured, it’s not *that* different from the lynching incidents carried out in the past, mostly in the name of religion.. (not that I condone any of them, but I just don’t see what’s so unusual here).

  76. bhitai says:
    August 25th, 2010 5:32 pm

    “After all Islam teaches us to do whatever you can to stop sin”

    Obaid1
    This is a pretty misleading statement. Islam asks us to act as good Samaritans, but also *requires* us to obey the law of the land. These two suggestions are not mutually exclusive: the mob that *thought* these were bandits could have stopped them by a) disarming them, and b) handing them over to the *state* i.e. police.
    From my reading of islam’s political philosophy, I don’t see even a *hint* of anarchy. Instead, the emphasis always seems to be on a strong state. I wonder where you got the opposite idea???

  77. Abdul says:
    August 25th, 2010 7:13 pm

    Excellent article.

    I am in the UK and my parents are from Pakistan. I regret to say Pakistan is generally a sick, barbarous nation. Everybody looked on as this horrific crime was committed against these innocent boys.

    I stay away from Pakistanis at every opportunity possible as a large segment – not all, but some people – are the most dysfunctional, uneducated and corrupt people I have ever come across.

  78. Proud paki - London says:
    August 25th, 2010 11:13 pm

    @Abdul
    I’m so sorry you were born off Pakistani parents. That must be really embarrassing. Do you walk at a distance from them when out in public?
    Well, at least you’re in the UK. A big Pakistani presence here too, so must be a bit difficult. I have an idea. Join the British National party and send all the Paki looking monkeys (including your parents) back home. I’m sure they’re going to welcome you with open arms. You might need some Michael Jackson transformation to join them though.

  79. readinglord says:
    August 26th, 2010 4:49 am

    @Bhitai

    Which Islam are you talking about? Just see this Hadees:

    “Sunnan Abu-Dawud
    Book 38, Number 4348:
    Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
    A blind man had a slave-mother (A slave-woman bearing children but not treated as a wife?) who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.
    He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
    He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
    Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.”

    Does it not allow a blind ‘Sahabi’ to be a judge, a jury and executioner , all-in-one?

  80. readinglord says:
    August 26th, 2010 5:04 am

    I wonder why the parents or other relatives or well-wishers of the family, who belonged to a nearby village, could not know about the beating of the boys which went on for hours together?

  81. KK says:
    August 26th, 2010 5:57 am

    This story contradicts with the Quranic portrayal of the Prohpet ( PBUH ).

    “And We have sent you (O Muhammad) not but as a mercy for the ‘Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists).”
    (The Holy Qur’an, Surah al-Anbiyaa. – (The Prophets) 21:107)

    The author of the Quran is God Almighty.

    The author of this book is a fallible human being. Humans are not able to pass a day without erring or fibbing.

    Who would you believe the Quran or the Mullah ?!!

    More views at the link below

    http://www.chowk.com/articles/islam-prophet-and-blasphemy-talawat-bokhari.htm

  82. Me says:
    August 26th, 2010 7:41 am

    I will be at the Karachi Press Club (Friday 3pm-5pm) to show that what happened to Muneeb and Mughees was inhuman, brutal and heartbreaking. I will be there to support their grieving parents and loved ones, and to show that we are not a dead nation. I will be there to show that I condemn this brutality. This is the least I can do.

    “To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men” Abraham Lincoln

  83. Asim says:
    August 26th, 2010 10:08 am

    Well, why did these people took the law into their own hands and savagely beat these presumably innocent kids to death? Simple answer is common people of Pakistan do not have any kind of faith in Pakistan’s Police and Judicial system and rightfully so! Just thinking from the minds of the person whose brother was first robbed and gunned down by the real robbers.

    So sad, i couldnt get the picture of these poor kids out of my head even after a week. What’s worst is these kind of innocent lives are lost daily in our country, its just we dont see the faces or hear the facts how nice families they belong to or how good those kids were.

    We are a country of 90% Absolute Jahils, Parrhay likhay jahils, religious jahils who believe “leave it on Allah, He will fix it all”, corrupt citizens and authorities and top it all off majority of our people dont pay taxes and expect goverment to fix our problems for free. Goverment on the other hand doesnt do its job to create jobs that pay well so that they could collect taxes. How wonder how much commision each political party gets from the donations meant for recent flood victims!

  84. Mus says:
    August 26th, 2010 11:40 am

    As of writing this the commission report headed by Justice(R)Kazim Malik has been presented to CJ but it is not confirmed.CJ will study the report and then decide the case.

    Meanwhile PPP minister Firdous Awan is going out of her way to protect her Buttar village folks from the wrath of the CJ by giving out confusing statements.
    Indeed,Allah knows best.

  85. KK says:
    August 26th, 2010 7:54 pm

    ” Me ” More power to you my friend. Had I been in Karachi I would have joined you.

  86. Alveena says:
    August 26th, 2010 9:11 pm

    Well there is a long history of these brutal acts. A similar incident happend to a father and a son in 1974 because of being Ahmedi. It happend in Balakot, a small town near Mansehra district. Zaman Khan and his son were stoned to death in Balakot Main Bazaar and then after killing them people urinated in their mouth and dragged their dead bodies in the streets and nobody was there to pick their dead bodies. After three day another son of Zaman Khan who was in hiding to save his life came in burqa in midnight and took the bodies and buried them somewhere at his own.

  87. Ben says:
    August 27th, 2010 9:27 am

    Don’t you think a public revolt is in the air.

  88. s. Tariq says:
    August 27th, 2010 12:23 pm

    We can still change. First by not constantly showing the same shameful clips 24/7 so that viewers are not only desensitized and apathetic towards such incidents.

    Second by creating condemnation and public opinion that actually shames those who were active or silent spectators.

    Third by demanding justice and ensuring that it is fairly and promptly given. Then constantly emphasizing punishments rather than the violence.

    It is essential that exemplerary action is taken to prevent other such barbaric incidents from taking place. If these are not immediately dealt with by the Political leaders, Judiciary and Government they may themselves find themselves the next victims very soon.

    Time is running out, too often have such incidents been ignored.

  89. Pardeesi Babu says:
    August 27th, 2010 3:17 pm

    A lesson for the killers and also for all Pakistanis

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnZULhK1YS8

  90. babu says:
    August 27th, 2010 4:35 pm
  91. KK says:
    August 28th, 2010 5:33 am

    Pardesi Babu : Thanks for posting this. The humanity of a Dog. Truly remarkable.

  92. KK says:
    August 28th, 2010 5:36 am

    Post by a friend in response to the question what can we do :

    the human rights commission of pakistan is an organisation that has been doing stellar work under the most difficult circumstances for over two decades… individuals involved are some of the most credible ppl in pak, with unquestioned integrity and courage.

    they provide a range of services, including legal aid, to those who have nowhere to go and no one to defend them…

    the tragic murder of the two young boys in sialkot highlights the brutality and self righteousness that has become our society… that has become us… we pounce on the weak and the vulnerable… we are all feudal in the way we live our lives and the way we think… we are all bullies and by that definition, also cowards.

    fortunately for us, there are a few people such as those involved with the hrcp who have dedicated their lives to putting their money where their mouths are… these brave men and women have been fighting on behalf of us selfish folk for years, trying to warn us of the dangers lurking and offering succour to those under attack, with little regard to their own personal safety.

    this latest incident in sialkot has once again shown us that these courageous ppl are playing a vital role in defending our society and they need our support. i hope we can play our part in any humble way that we can…. if only in the memory of those two young, innocents who lost their lives at the hands of a merciless polity that we have all helped create…
    best,

    f.

    http://www.hrcp-web.org/default.asp

    Since Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP) began functioning in 1987, it has helped raise awareness among citizens about human rights and project the issues and events affecting the rights of the people.

    The HRCP is an independent, non-governmental organization registered under the law with main office in Lahore. It is non-political and non-profit-making.

    Besides monitoring human rights violations in Pakistan and seeking redress through public campaigns, lobbying and interventions in courts, HRCP organizes seminars, workshops and fact-finding missions. Every year, the HRCP facilitates hundreds of journalists, students and academics from both within Pakistan and outside through its elaborate reference library.

    To carry out its activities, the HRCP prefers to work with the support of civil society and non-government sources of funding.

    Your contribution to the cause of human rights will go a long way to help the Commission. Every donation matters and every giver makes a positive difference. Please make a donation today! There are several ways to lend your support:

    Donations from Pakistan

    1. Check in Pak Rupees. HRCP receives every paisa when you send a check in Pakistani Rupee, made out to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, to our office at:

    Aiwan-i-Jamhoor, 107-Tipu Block, New Garden Town, Lahore 54600, Pakistan

    Donations from outside Pakistan

    1. Check in U.S. Dollars. HRCP has to pay very little amount as a bank fee when you send a check in Pakistani Rupee, made out to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, to our office at:

    Aiwan-i-Jamhoor, 107-Tipu Block, New Garden Town, Lahore 54600, Pakistan

    2. Use PayPal. Make a donation from your bank account or using a credit card with PayPal. You will need to establish a free PayPal account. Click on the yellow “donate” button below which will take you directly to the HRCP PayPal donation page. When you make your donation, please indicate that it is from you. PayPal then notifies HRCP that a donation has been made. PayPal keeps 3% of the donation as their fee.

    3. Wire Transfer. Please contact HRCP’s Secretary General Mr I. A. Rehman at
    iar@hrcep-web.org for the bank details.

    Other Ways to Contribute to HRCP

    1. Laptop computers. We are looking for laptop computers for our volunteers/correspondents all over Pakistan.

    2. Digital cameras, digital recorders, cell phones. For use by our volunteers/ correspondents in districts and small towns across the country.

    3. Projector. We seek a projector that our coordinators can use in sessions/workshops with the correspondents and trainees

    4. Volunteer Work When you come across a rights violation, you send in a letter, email to HRCP correspondent in the area or HRCP regional office or directly to the head office in Lahore.

  93. Majid says:
    August 28th, 2010 11:23 am

    Hanged boys had killed and robbed the same day
    Saturday, August 28, 2010
    By Ansar Abbasi

    ISLAMABAD: A leading civilian intelligence agency of the country has concluded that the two Sialkot brothers, brutally killed by the mob recently, were allegedly road robbers, who killed a 22-year old young man and injured a few others on the fateful day that led to their killing by the infuriated locals after the brothers were caught red-handed.

    http://thenews.com.pk/28-08-2010/National/1738.htm

  94. readinglord says:
    August 28th, 2010 1:47 pm

    Obaid1 says:
    August 25th, 2010 2:33 pm

    “After all Islam teaches us to do whatever you can to stop sin”

    But it does not mean that you become a judge and start punishing people even for holding a faith different from you. What was done during prophet’s life, who is supported by ‘wehi’ (Guidance by God) does not apply, except that laid down in Qura-e-hakeem or in hadees corroborating that.

  95. Baasim says:
    August 28th, 2010 10:05 pm

    I am so glad that people have spoken up on this. Because they did those responsible will be punished.

  96. Adnan says:
    August 29th, 2010 5:18 am

    It’s been in news that Jiyalas of Pakistan Beghairat Party(PBP) are involved in the killing of these kids

  97. Amjad says:
    August 29th, 2010 5:29 am

    Actually, I was quite struck in the original video by how many moulvi types were in the lynch mob.

  98. Cyma says:
    August 31st, 2010 7:00 pm

    Very sensibly written piece. Thank you for writing. We need sanity right now, not more emotionalism.

  99. Kevin Mark says:
    December 24th, 2010 4:23 am

    The tragic murder of the two young boys in sialkot highlights the brutality and self righteousness that has become our society… that has become us… we pounce on the weak and the vulnerable… wood chipswe are all feudal in the way we live our lives and the way we think… we are all bullies and by that definition, also cowards.

  100. readinglord says:
    January 4th, 2011 5:20 am

    There was a recent case of robbery in a house in Rawalpindi in which three policemen were allegedly involved. Th residents of the house caught the robbers, one of whom was found having a duty cart of Police in his pocket. They handed over the robbers to the Police, but to their utter surprise the police let the accused get away. The victims then reported the case to the media, on the report by which the Chief Minister took notice of the case. And lo, all the three accused were found to be policemen, against whom the case of bribery has been duly lodged. They are all along with the S.I. who had let them get away are reportedly under remand now.

    Does this not justify the vigilante action taken by the villagers of Sialkot against the robbers, as if they had been policemen they would have got away easily.

    Btw, can any body let us know the latest position of the Sialkot case?

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