This is Wrong and Shameful … Police Must Treat People with Dignity

Posted on December 18, 2007
Filed Under >Owais Mughal, Law & Justice, Society
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Owais Mughal

A few days ago I highlighted this wrong, but today after after seeing photos of policemen mercilessly beating an unarmed lady, I am again left speechless at this shameful violence.

We at ATP have long worried about the senselessness of the violence (physical, psychological, verbal, social) that seems to keep growing in our society. All violence is bad, violence by the state is especially disturbing.

We strongly condemn this police brutality. Whoever is ordering such treatment of protesters is definitely taking people away from the ideals of Pakistan. How do you expect this poor lady (or her family or anyone seeing this) to trust the state after getting such a thrashing at the hands of the states law-enforcers? Those who are responsible to safeguard our dignity.

Police reform is the cry of the day. They absolutely need a crash course in human dignity and how to tackle protesters in a civilized way. Mercilessly beating ladies (or on anyone as a matter of fact) is inhuman and not part of our culture, or of any culture. No matter what one thinks about the protesters or what they are protesting, this violence by the police is wrong and shameful. We all must condemn it.

Police or their higherups should see how much anger is building up in people who are not afraid of confronting them with bare hands. This anger needs a channel such as allowing peaceful protest or it will spill out in wrong kind of violence as it probably happened the other day in Multan.

Whether we agree with protesters or not, peaceful protest is their right. Treat humans – all humans, everywhere – with dignity. If we do not, then our own dignity is compromised.

89 Comments on “This is Wrong and Shameful … Police Must Treat People with Dignity”

  1. Rahim Khan says:
    December 18th, 2007 11:35 pm

    Pakistan is under martial law.

  2. December 18th, 2007 11:42 pm

    It is shameful for law and enforcement authorities, i condemn them.

  3. chirand says:
    December 19th, 2007 12:13 am

    I am disappointed that events such as these do not get nearly the coverage they deserve in traditional media.

    I think the issue is bigger than police reforms – we have steadily grown intolerant and violent as a society. Police is just an extension of this, with a small difference – they have the license to carry batons and guns.

  4. Shaji says:
    December 19th, 2007 1:16 am

    Her name is Alia… she and her mother got beaten up pretty bad along with others. My mother was few steps behind when the police started throwing stones and bricks (not kidding) at them as the protesters tried going towards the Marriott.

    From what I heard… the protest was fairly peaceful till the point of turn for the Judges’ Enclave. Police had cordoned off the roads leading to the enclave and a large contingent had been with them from Aabpara.

    The protesters broke the first barricade after which the police got active and started pelting them from afar. Protesters responded in kind which was followed by tear gas shelling.

    I think almost every woman arrested was released later, but they had confiscated the cell phones (hot market property I guess).

    One thing needs to be reminded that this is NOT Islamabad Police. This is Punjab Constabulary and they are quite well known at least in Islamabad for breaking up riots with their ‘laathi charge’. In our student days we saw a lot of them after strikes and Islamabad Police always calls them up in times like these. Compared to them Islamabad Police are the nice guys and always the first in line. Its when the going gets tough that PC comes into play.

  5. sidhas says:
    December 19th, 2007 1:22 am

    Our women folks are great and inspiring where do you find such women. They are just an icon for resistence. I salute them.

    God will rewards them.

    As for Pakistani police, it is sad that they can resort to such practice.
    nangay deen, nangay millat, nangay watan,

  6. Aadil says:
    December 19th, 2007 1:35 am

    I think the so much trumpted slogans of ‘enlightened moderation’ on part of Mr. Musharraf went terribly wrong as far as its practical implementation is concerned. Rather ‘extreme violence’ has been unleashed to suppress anything challenging the status quo. Resultantly there is an overall upsurge of violence in our society. The affects of a cruel millitiary mind at the helm are trickling down and seeping into the Pakistani society which we can witness in so many of the pictures day in and day out. The perpetrators might not just be the police but everywhere in our society.

  7. RE says:
    December 19th, 2007 2:10 am

    This is all part of anti Mushraf Propaganda , Reputation of Police in Pakistan is never noble. Any politician can pay them and get them do anything.
    People who been to Thana in Pakistan has many horror stories, Ask any one who was in Thana and they will tell you their experience in thana. Many go under psychological toucher. But we have never shown those pictures or even discussed. On daily bases Pakistan Police is beating someone no matter who is the ruler.
    All of you are going over and over on the issues with which we all grew up. Talk about Aataa crises which is effecting many poor. Talk about extremists destroying image of Islam and Pakistan.
    Keep on spitting on the hero of Pakistan President Mushraf. Allah is with the man who has good intentions for the interest of Pakistan.Man who puts Pakistan first.

    Allah Bless Mushraf and Pakistan
    Down to anti Mushraf Propaganda
    Down to the people who are unknowingly or knowing destabilizing Pakistan.

  8. MB says:
    December 19th, 2007 2:33 am

    History will remember Mr. Musharraf as the desi version of Hitler & son of ZIA, for his lust for power, command & authority.

    I have junior fellow in ARMY & he recently told us how our ISI (or ARMY for that matter) rigged the 2002 elections. They were order to stamp thousands of votes in their offices.

    Its good that at least people have started to believe now what we use to hear earlier that MULLAH & MILITARY is the real obstacle in country’s progress.

  9. RE says:
    December 19th, 2007 2:45 am

    This is all part of anti Mushraf Propaganda , Reputation of Police in Pakistan is never noble. Any politician can pay them and get them do anything.
    People who been to Thana in Pakistan has many horror stories, Ask any one who was in Thana and they will tell you their experience in thana. Many go under psychological toucher. But we have never shown those pictures or even discussed. On daily bases Pakistan Police is beating someone no matter who is the ruler.
    All of you are going over and over on the issues with which we all grew up. Talk about Aataa crises which is effecting many poor. Talk about extremists destroying image of Islam and Pakistan.
    Keep on spitting on the hero of Pakistan President Mushraf. Allah is with the man who has good intentions for the interest of Pakistan.Man who puts Pakistan first.

    Allah Bless Mushraf and Pakistan
    Down to anti Mushraf Propaganda
    Down to the people who are unknowingly or knowing destabilizing Pakistan.

  10. RE says:
    December 19th, 2007 2:48 am

    “My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you: Ask what you can do for your country,”
    John Kennedy

    We are all boarded together in a single ship of Pakistan.

  11. S.A.Mallal says:
    December 19th, 2007 4:50 am

    It is absolutely shocking, shameful and disgraceful to say the least. I wish these photographs get shown in the US press for their public to see how their war on terror is being fought by Mushrraf.
    These scenes show what a desprate person trying to cling to power by hook or crook can resort to. I think the dictator Mushrraf in an effort to retain his power by such brute measures is digging his own grave.
    I salute these ladies with tear in my eyes.

  12. Nayab Khan says:
    December 19th, 2007 5:55 am

    This is terrible, I agree with chirand, we have become an intolerant society, neither the police nor civilians are behaving. We need a revolution in our attitudes.

    @MB, identify your junior fellow so i can confirm this independently.

  13. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    December 19th, 2007 7:09 am

    Exaggeration of Propaganda,

    @ Photos showing no sign of blood, dead bodies, pices of
    humanbody, The Titel is overdone, dignity and shame ??
    for whom ?? what about those butchered, killed executed,
    bombed, shelled, gased. The progys are racist even for
    their so called wounded not deads, why are’nt they killed
    gased, shelled, and treated like muslims of LAL MASJID ??

  14. Pakistan Zindabad says:
    December 19th, 2007 8:20 am

    Absolutely disturbing. What more worst can we expect?

  15. Anwar says:
    December 19th, 2007 8:21 am

    Rather unfortunate — I witnessed similar atrocities during anti-Ayub agitations and later during anti ZAB wheel-jam acts.
    Nevertheless, these acts must be condemned no matter what. The magistrate responsible needs to face the law so does his ultimate boss.

  16. Umar says:
    December 19th, 2007 8:44 am

    Disgusting and reprehensible…

    Not to hijack the thread but did anyone else read about Gulgee’s death in mysterious circumstances? Apparently his body alongside his wife and servant were discovered by Amin Gulgee, also a famous artist… I’m not a fan of Gulgee finding patrons among the Powers that Be, but he was an important artist, a very likable person and there was a definite humility and innocence in the way he talked… it is quite a loss:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7151914.stm

  17. AM says:
    December 19th, 2007 8:45 am

    Shaji says:

    “The protesters broke the first barricade after which the police got active and started pelting them from afar. Protesters responded in kind which was followed by tear gas shelling.”

    Why did the protesters break the first barricade? The other day there was a story of how lawyers ransacked the quarters of one of their colleagues who “dared” to swear an oath under the PCO. The protectors were just as much at fault for “breaking the law”, and inciting the police, as were the police for resorting to excessive “lathi charges”.

    The protesters had the option of keeping their protest peaceful, as Shaji points out it was until the first barricade was broken. If they choose not to, don’t go around whining about it. You can only expect “dignity” if you offer it first, and the protesters did not.

    PS: Are there any pictures that show the women actually being hit – because all I see here are people with their Lathis raised, not actually hitting – and who is to say the hits were not mere taps? Just curious on this point.

  18. December 19th, 2007 8:58 am

    Topsy-turvy Paksitan

    Yesterday I was reading Richard III by Shakespear and there were few lines that depicted a true picture of Pakistan. A society where noble, honest and integral people such as Aitizaz Ahsan, Ali Ahmed Kurd, Munir malik, Chief Justice Iftikhar Choudary and his fellow judges are either behind bars or put under house arrest and all sycophants, hypocrites, dishonest, corrupt and law breakers are holding the heighest offices in the land of pure. I deliberatly missed out the names of sycophants, hypocrites, dishonests, corrupts and law breakers because the list will be endless.
    Let me share those line with you to understand the travesty of justice.

    The world is gone so bad
    That wrens make pray where eagles dare not perch.
    Since every jack became a gentleman
    There’s many a gentle person made a jack.
    (1.3.69-72)

    However I for one longing for day to end this drama with Musharraf saying,

    A horse, a horse! My kingdom for a horse!
    (5.4.7-10)

    http://uk.360.yahoo.com/imranbhatt

  19. AM says:
    December 19th, 2007 8:59 am

    One other thing, it really is quite pathetic how Musharraf has to be dragged into everything, and very intellectually dishonest of som eto ignore the fact that the issue of police brutality is not one of Musharraf’s making, but has existed in Pakistani society for long – including during the “not so Golden years” of the “Great BB and NS”. Blaming Musharaf does nothing but hijack the discussion from the real issue – how to reform the police system and make it both autonomous and accountable.

    The same thing has been done with Terrorism in Pakistan – with people hiding behind “blame Musharraf” rather than accepting the fact that we have people in this country who would kill innocents and challenge the writ of the state to impose their evil and medieval ways. So instead of figuring out how to present a united front to the terrorism monster, we have to listen to canards like “democracy will solve everything” and “stop killing our Muslim brothers”. Pathetic and intellectually dishonest all of it!

  20. Umar says:
    December 19th, 2007 9:01 am

    Perhaps, but given the charged-up atmosphere and the pent-up frustration going back 60 years, I should think that you would forgive the protesters the odd broken barricade… :)

  21. Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar says:
    December 19th, 2007 9:40 am

    “PS: Are there any pictures that show the women actually being hit – because all I see here are people with their Lathis raised, not actually hitting – and who is to say the hits were not mere taps? Just curious on this point.”

    subhanallah.

    hope your family members get treated like that one day. then, I will ask you to show me a video of the lathis hitting your family member. still photos of raised lathis and people trying to save themselves will not do.

    Owais sahib, there is still no comparison between this act of brutality versus what the lawyers did. as someone said before, there is a difference between the violence by the oppressor and the violence by the oppressed. the lawyers have been copping inhumane beatings for a long time. if they gave a little back to the dictator’s dogs, I for one fully support them.

  22. Umar says:
    December 19th, 2007 9:48 am

    Amen

  23. Nayab Ahmad says:
    December 19th, 2007 10:39 am

    @AM, totally agree with you brother.
    Musharraf is being blamed for everything,we should blame this policeman who doesn’t have any respect for women and partially these protesters who broke the baricades.

    This comes down to the education and our failure as a society.

  24. RE says:
    December 19th, 2007 11:13 am

    Yes we living in overseas are very frustrated for the love of Pakistan.I agree people who live in Pakistan they see better inside situation of Pakistan, but we who live overseas see better out side situation. First time ever Pakistan was discussed positive in business community worldwide.Rating by Wall street and other business organizations been upgraded.
    Now this was seen as huge positive by overseas Pakistanis.
    Inside Pakistan if this government was civilians and people were not happy like they are not happy with Mushraf. Many of you will be praying army take over. Problem this time is its army no other place to go.
    Yes this is sad to see we have no credible leader after Mushraf leaves. This is sad and trust me our heart is with Pakistan.
    We love all the people of Pakistan and we want to see you all happy. But it also hurts to see the some elements are emotional and do not show responsibility when country is micro scoped by international community.
    Country is like a family try to resolve family problems with out making too much noise.And if next door neighbor hears anything they hear something which make sense and they say well this is same story in every home.Other wise neighbors are going to make Tamasha and fun of you and your family.
    Lets discuss the solutions not that we are focused on complains and complains nothing else.

    Some who want to show these images to America and want aid to be cut good going. Many people in Pakistan are not civilized like Americans and they understand that. They know that corruption police before you show images of Pakistan to America first reach to their level.
    One can not trust anything happening in Pakistan. Because so much ant Mushraf Propaganda and conspiracies going on.
    Amazing to see joy of many of you by looking at these pics.
    Yes these women should sit home when country is under attack.

  25. RE says:
    December 19th, 2007 11:47 am

    In no means i am saying do not criticize Mushraf. Go after Aataa Issue , Go after electricity issue in Summer, Go after owners of businesses who are controlling the prices of day to day things people buy to live a regular life. Go after the issue of clean water. There is so much. All these issues will result in better Pakistan.
    Allah bless Pakistan

  26. Muhammad Adnan Siddique says:
    December 19th, 2007 11:59 am

    This indeed is brutal!

    Pakistan needs a revolution, and this revolution can not be like the Iranian revolution or the French Revolution. It has to be a silent one, brought about by a continued struggle of empowering ourselves with the awareness of ‘what our rights are?’ and the vigour to shout ‘we are denied our rights’.

    The story above is a fact, same for those who support Musharraf or dont. I encourage all to inform those around you of such heinous happenings, thereby helping augment awareness in the society and keeping up the vigour we need.

    May Allah give better to the people of this country.

  27. Shaji says:
    December 19th, 2007 12:10 pm

    Not to take AM’s side (will discuss the ‘actually being hit’ later), but Tarar sahab, no decent person would wish that the person they don’t agree with gets to have their family treated in the same manner. We’re not like that. And as far as opinions and ATP goes, all sides are always welcome here to express theirs and listen to other’s. If it was not for this, ATP would not be this popular. All sides have to be heard, weighed, argued and the decision left to the reader.

    Back to ‘actually being hit’, AM I hope you weren’t being serious when u were making that point.

    Mush probably has nothing to do with this? The orders come from the top to prevent people from meeting the judges. Nobody and I mean nobody at the level of AC/DC or SP/SSP makes these decisions.

    And what is he really afraid of anyway?

  28. MB says:
    December 19th, 2007 12:28 pm

    @Nayab Khan
    He is still in service. Do you think its sensible to provide info on him?

    I have mentioned one out of thousand incidents that occur generally in elections in our country. Establishment rigging election after election for their desired results. Newspapers are full of it all.

    What you plan to do after verification ?, Suppose its verified.

  29. Ahmad R. Shahid says:
    December 19th, 2007 12:28 pm

    Musharraf after imposing his second martial law immediately restored Islamabad IG who was earlier suspended by the original SC and was responsible for brutally crushing dissent by the media and the lawyers. He did it just to get the restults that are depicted in the picture.

  30. Nayab Ahmad says:
    December 19th, 2007 12:31 pm

    No offense but i think you should show some respect to others point of view. Besides, I have seen anti Musharraf group more violent, louder and less patient then pro-musharraf. Next time when you watch a tele show, do notice!!
    I was in Qazi’s dhuarna during BB’s 2nd term, travelling from lahore to wah, there were thousands of protesters in every city and the GT road blocked. At the end of the day police had given up but the Anti-Musharraf group are just a few loud, lousy and aggressive by nature lads who cannot even get more then a thousand people on streets but do we label them traitors? even tho they have looted the nation, cheated and even lied on face!

    Some of Musharraf’s decisions are wrong but he is still better then all others today. Call me propogandists if you like but it won’t stop me from expressing my views unless ATP bans me.

    @AM, well said.

  31. MB says:
    December 19th, 2007 12:39 pm

    One thing i have noticed, which is quite strange too,considering the pro-MUSH are by-default enlightened that they bracket every anti-MUSH man as pro-Taliban.
    Lolz, Isnt that conservativeness too ?

    OR

    Its just an easy way to escape the difficult questions we ask from president supporters, i.e just like the Mullah’s escape by labeling every anti-Mullah as AMERICAN AGENT & Israeli Agent.

  32. December 19th, 2007 12:44 pm

    Owais,

    You are spot on entirely in this post which given recent posts and our recent disagreements in public and in private must surprise you and me!

    I saw the images and was disgusted, when women are attacked for simply protesting peacefully then where do we stop?, what our red lines or are they now blurred too?

    We must resist this martial law which lives on for our just judges are under arrest not least the Chief Justice as are the leaders and lions of the lawyers movement namely Justice Tariq Mehmood, Ali Ahmed Kurd and Aitzaz Ahsan.

    The role of civil society and the warm welcome afforded to Justice Bhagwandas and Justice Rabbani in Karachi has given us all hope see below link: http://www.otherpakistan.org/martial.html

    Feimanallah

    Wasim

  33. Nayab Ahmad says:
    December 19th, 2007 12:53 pm

    @Ahmad R. Shahid, as i remember, the protesters crossed the barriers that were set around the Election commission, tried to enter the EC building and a day before they said they will burn the EC building down.How civil is that?
    “”Laton key bhoot batun sey nahe mantey”".

    Saying so, I also want to add that, our police is very brutal. There should be laws to protect people from getting beaten badly (blood) and police should be taught civilian rights and trainned to handle such protests. Media should also play its role in educating people and promoting peaceful protesting.

  34. MB says:
    December 19th, 2007 1:04 pm

    @AM
    you have raised some good question & the answer is coming shortly in detail but seriuosly after looking at these pics one should ask, where is the WOMEN protection bill now & what about all the bombardment of enlightened moderation onto our screens? Just like ZIA hijacked religion to prolong his power , similarly this man is stampede everything in his way to stay in power.

  35. Nayab Ahmad says:
    December 19th, 2007 1:21 pm

    @Muhammad Adnan Siddique; very sinsible, recommend your comments highly.

    @MB; I believe in sources directly or things i have seen with my own eyes. Can’t trust newspapers or word of mouth. Anyways, the only reason i asked was, if he is a junior he wouldn’t know what happened 5 years ago!
    I have seen rigging by PML during Nawaz times, its nothing new, infect a servant of my friend in sindh went to karachi to welcome BB because he was paid 300Rs, that was first step of rigging election, showing public how much support you have and getting more attention. If rigging happens in this election, it will go against Musharraf so I think he will not let that happen even if PML-Q looses.

    While criticising these policemen, please also note that 6 policement were killed when a terrorist blew himself up to kill BB. How many of us have visited their graves or sent donations to their families? Is it fair to criticise when they are doing their job against violent protesters who also stone them and they still go on and die while protecting public interests ?

    Besides, PMLQ will loose, they will be sitting with the ruling party tho, which will be PPP. PMLN & Mulana will sit in opposition. Musharraf will stay as President for another year, GEO will be back on cable, some of the judges will be back after parliment’s support but the ex-CJ will remain retired. Aitazaz hasan could become speaker.
    Economic growth with continue for another year to two but the government will be weakend by the opposition, increase in militancy & loot by politicians. Pakistan will also get isolated because of the extremist elements.
    Pakistan will either end up divided with Punjab & sindh forming one state or there will be a real Martiallaw.

    Hope, Allah gives us patience to understand and work with each other.

  36. Aqil Sajjad says:
    December 19th, 2007 2:35 pm

    AM:
    The protestors were indeed brutally beaten up and some of them even have fractured bones. I personally know some of the protestors who are not affiliated with any of the political parties. Quite frankly, your comment that the police might not have beaten them badly was in very poor taste. I hope you don’t need to experience a similar police beating yourself in order to realize this.

    I am pasting below the contents of an e-mail which I got from one of the protestors (he is not affiliated with any political party):

    “I apologize for not being able to write more details or in better language. Have 2 fractured fingers and back got real bad thrashing. I am still amongst the luckier ones. We still don’t have details on the number but many got beaten up with cracked skulls, bleeding noses, and in broken bones. Many are still in jail and the whereabouts of a few are still unknown.

    Our peaceful rally was once again stormed by the police. After being beaten up thrice by these policemen students had brought sticks for their own self defense. We were first charged at when we were trying to go to the CJ’s house to show solidarity. Due to the traffic on the street and our numbers (about 1000 protesters with 200 odd with flags) we retaliated and got the police running back.

    The second time they charged at us on the orders of ASP Nasir Aftab the students were able to push the police back. Nasir Aftab himself was seen beating up women on which a few students beat him up. He was eventually sent to a hospital after a special ambulance came to take the injured policemen. Please note that when one of the female students tried to go the ambulance to get her brother taken to the hospital she was charged on by 6 policemen. We have no news of her whereabouts as of this point.

    Once the police failed to stop the students from going to the CJ’s house an armored vehicle fired 30 odd tear gas shells. One shell hit a lawyer and exploded on his leg. He fainted there and was rushed to the hospital in a cab. The police also fired rubber bullets and pelted stones as well. Because of the tear gas people dispersed and riot police in their gas masks charged at us. The students were already in terrible condition due to the tear gas and the police showed no concern for the injured lying on the ground. They became easy targets and were beaten up indiscriminately.

    Even with all this, a group of 50 students still made it to the CJ’s house. They were eventually surrounded by 600 odd policemen who treated them terribly even after they were already handing themselves over to the authorities. There were numerous arrests made and many different news papers are reporting different numbers. At the time of writing this report the female prisoners have been released and the males were charged under so many different offenses that it was difficult to keep track.

    The two bullies responsible for today’s action are:
    Nasir Aftab: 0300-8505563
    Kamran Cheema: 9261163

    The students urge you all to call these bullies and tell them about your sentiments. One student said she had no one to go to for justice. Had the CJ been there he would have taken a suo moto notice against these policemen but without him there was no one to go to for help. She said this while being unable to move after the beating she got from the police and waiting for help from somewhere.

    Please forward this to everyone and let the world know that students of Pakistan will not be affected by these minor skirmishes. They may have broken bones and aching bodies but their spirit is alive and will fight till our heroes are restored.”

  37. Ahmad R. Shahid says:
    December 19th, 2007 2:56 pm

    If my memory serves my right, this same Nasir Aftab was reported to be drunk driving in F-10 a couple of months ago.

  38. Omar says:
    December 19th, 2007 2:58 pm

    I would like to ask if we our really surprised at this behavior by the Police? And should we really blame these constables for doing what they did?

    I’ll answer my first question by stating the obvious. We are under martial law (or psuedo martial law at this point), which means that our government as a whole chose to break the law by suspending the constitution. Once that happened all bets were off. I would submit that once Paksitan’s government took that step, it is no surprise that individual organs of the state abrogated their moral and ethical obligations to the people of Pakistan.

    To answer my second question, from where I am sitting (very comfortably I may add and admittedly far away from the troubles of Pakistan), I find it hard to understand why there isn’t a single General, Beureaucrat, or Police official who chose to confront the government’s increasingly violent and illegal behavior (apart from the judges who chose not to take oath under the PCO). It is easy to blame Musharraf. But the steps he took were the steps of the government of Pakistan, which is made up of various institutions. Apart from the judiciary there wasn’t a single institution (or individuals from that institution) that tried to at least reason with the President. For instance Police officials chose to arrest people on a massive scale without giving consideration to the legality of their actions (and seemingly with great devotion and dedication). These constables are brutal in their response because the government and its minions have given either their implicit (through their own actions) or explicit approval.

    Also it is clear when it comes to the judges the government is extremely intolerant of any opposing views and wants to make sure people get the message (just check out how Musharraf bristles at the mention of the judges during interviews).

    Anyways great post and thank you for highlighting this shameful episode.

  39. Ahmad R. Shahid says:
    December 19th, 2007 3:01 pm

    Well its good that the students are coming out into the streets of Islamabad. These policemen can only beat a small number of people and its not easy beating either. It takes a lot of energy and their arms must ache for a couple of days at least. If larger number of students come out into the streets, Army might be called in to stop them. But that would be the third Martial Law and won’t be imposed by Musharraf but his new COAS.

    Remember the 1989 Tianamen Square incident. There the students put up camps for days. I wonder if Pakistani students would do something similar, say in front of the Parliament House, the Supreme Court, the Presidency or the residence, illegally occupied by Musharraf, of the COAS. I read a book on that event in China and the author said that at the time of the student riots, the high command of the Communist Party was holding a very important meeting. And it was decided then that unless China sets on a path of very high growth rates the Communist Party would be kicked out of office by force. So such events cause their own effects. I hope that these events also snowball into something more significant.

  40. Ahmad R. Shahid says:
    December 19th, 2007 3:07 pm

    @Omar

    The problem with the argument that why other institutions of the state are not responding to Musharraf’s brutalities, is that the other institutions that you have referred to actually belong to the same super class: the Executive. The Executive under the command of Musharraf is right now working without any checks and balances. The only other pillars of state that can check the excesses of the ececutive are under siege or dissolved: the Judiciary and the Legislature. Media is sometimes portrayed as the fourth pillar of state, but it can not check the excesses of the state. It can only report them, which it is trying its best to do under tyrranical Musharraf and his executive.

  41. December 19th, 2007 3:32 pm

    Aqil Bhai,

    Well said

    Feimanallah

    Wasim

  42. Aqil Sajjad says:
    December 19th, 2007 3:36 pm

    That mention of the Chinese leadership deciding that they need a very high growth rate to survive is interesting. But in this case, I think Mush probably genuinely believes that he has done wonders for the economy and the people should be happy with him. He is probably at a loss as to why people are agitating at all. Our problem is not just that we have dictatorship, but also that our leaders are low calibre material. With visionary leadership, even dictatorship could have taken us well forward.

    The next coming weeks are going to be interesting since the economy is coming under a lot of pressure. Inflation is getting worse, and the hike in the international oil price is making things worse. I think the govt is trying to delay increasing the oil price untill the elections. However, there are going to be some losers in the elections and they might join the protests. Presently, the idea must be not to annoy Mush too much because then they could suffer in the elections. This might change after the elections, and as inflation increases further, the people are going to get angrier. So Mush is certainly not out of the woods yet.

  43. Viqar Minai says:
    December 19th, 2007 5:05 pm

    It is indeed very unfortunate but trouble makers, as long as they are commoners, need to be dealt with a strong hand.

    My advice to the govt is to take preventive steps in advance to ensure that future trouble makers do not reach adulthood. Baton charging hordes should be let loose on small children and new born babies, and any potential subsersives should be mercilessly nipped in the bud.

    na rahE ga bANs na bajE gi bANsri

    Why should Musharraf be blamed for everything? There were ever only three saviors sent. The first was Moses and the second was Muhammad. Funny how all their names start with the letter M.

  44. Ahmad R. Shahid says:
    December 19th, 2007 5:39 pm

    @Aqil Sajjad

    Couldn’t agree with you more that there are some very troubling signs on the economy front. So much for “period of high growth”. That might spell the doom for Musharraf as the 1997 financial crisis in Indonesia brought down the 32 years old Suharto government.

  45. December 19th, 2007 6:05 pm

    @ Minai

    You were right in your analysis the evil should be nipped in the bud. I would like to give credit to Musharraf regime and urge people to be fair and give credit when credit is due.

    Respect to your great place, and let the devil
    Be sometime honoured for his burning throne.

    http://uk.360.yahoo.com/imranbhatt

  46. Jabbar says:
    December 19th, 2007 6:32 pm

    Mr. Rafay Kashmiri….. so you are saying you woudl have preferred to see “Photos showing … blood, dead bodies, pices of
    humanbody”

    I am sorry that is sickening…. why woud you want innocent Pakistanis (and women) to be bleeding, dead or torn to pieces before we consider anything “shameful”!!!!

  47. Lahori says:
    December 19th, 2007 6:37 pm

    AM seems to have come up with the stupendous logic that Musharraf should not be blamed because it was the police’s fault… OK, so you are saying that Musharraf is so weak and ineffectual and powerless as an absolute ruler that he cannot even control the actions of his own police (who come, ultimately, under his direct control)….. if so, then, (a) do we really want such an incompetent and inefective ruler and (b) how does anyone expect him to be successful with religious extremists (who he does not even control) when he cannot even control his own policemen!

    Thank you, AM, for pointing out the incompetence of the Musharraf government by highlighting how incapable he is of anything.

  48. Lahori says:
    December 19th, 2007 6:51 pm

    RE, this silly argument that Musharraf improved the image of Pakistan I cannot understand.
    So, let us see what is the image of Pakistan that Musharraf is showing to the world….

    Musharraf is telling the world that Pakistanis do not respect the constitution.
    Musharraf is telling the world that Pakistani government forces hit their own innocenet women.
    Musharraf is telling the world that we remove judges if we think they will decide against us.
    Musharraf is telling the world that our rulers hold on to power no matter what, even if it takes emergencies.
    Musharraf is telling the world that we hit and bleed our lawyers for wanting justice.
    Musharraf is telling the world that we do not respect democracy.
    Musharraf is telling the world that most Pakistanis are religious fanatics and only he is a good Pakistani.
    Musharraf is telling the world that we can reinvite corrupt (BB) and incompetent politicians (NS) if we need them to save our skin.

    How in God’s name does any of this help Pakistan’s image. I cannot imagine anyone — BB or NS included — who has harmed Pakistan and Pakistan’s image more than Musharraf!

  49. Lahori says:
    December 19th, 2007 7:01 pm

    Viqar Minai…. Mussolini’s name also started with M.

  50. Lahori says:
    December 19th, 2007 7:06 pm

    Just so that I get it clear, according to Mr. I.Q. Butt and Viqar Minai, the women being beaten up in thsi picture are EVIL!!!!

  51. Jamil Rahman says:
    December 19th, 2007 7:09 pm

    Police reform? Ask Cheif Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry what happens when you hold our police accountable. I believe it was 1 or 2 days before he was removed that he had senetenced senior Islamabad police officials to 15 or 30 days in prison. Coincidence, I think not.

  52. Zain says:
    December 19th, 2007 7:15 pm

    I applaud ATP’s consistency. Violence is bad and should always be condemned. I checked out the various links here and there is something that you do not find in any Pakistani politicians or leader (Musharraf, Benazir, Nawaz or other) and that is that ATP has always been consistent against all forms of violence. You make us proud. Thank you.

  53. RE says:
    December 19th, 2007 10:02 pm

    Lahori
    So lets talk about solutions all of us complaining or defending someone here. Pakistan has failed to generate new leader after Jinnah. Talk is easy on these boards. Ok fine lets hear some solutions?
    Lets unite here for the interest of Pakistan all of us here and talk about solutions.
    Here are few things I would like to see.

    No Mullah in Mosque can preach with out minimum qualification and should have the license to become in charge of Mosque. This License should be given after they have finished minimum qualification requirements and full back ground check.

    Fire the whole Police department and established new police system.

    Electricity problems should be eliminated 100% in summer.

    Clean water for all.

    Education for all the kids of Pakistan. No kids on the streets working or begging.

    Restaurants and all the places selling food should have standards enforced by law to keep places clean.

    Muslim scholars must go after jahal extremists. TV , Blogs , all kind of media must humiliate extremist who have hijacked Islam for their personal grudges.

    All Pakistani’s must unite and patriotism should be promoted on air on internet and on all kind of media.

    We must help each others overseas and in Pakistan.

    Privatize PIA and Railway and other departments losing money.

    All Pakistani look out for enemy inside Pakistan such as al-qaida or foreigners and report them to authorities.All Pakistani people are the intelligence of Pakistan.

    I will talk about more things but would like to hear solutions from you all.

    With all honesty its getting boring banging on Mushraf all the time. Lets wait till election are over Mushraf. But again I would question Mushraf on these issues such as Aataa shortage , why this happened what they will do about it so this never happens again. Whenever I visit Pakistan only one complain I get and that is high prices on everything. So I want answers on this from Mushraf. ??

    Allal Bless Pakistan

  54. Asad says:
    December 19th, 2007 10:17 pm

    Pervez “Commando” Musharaf is responsible for the cowardly police action against women.

    To all the “Lovers of Musharaf” all that we see with our eyes and hear with our ears , the blood, the screams, the tears, the dandas and the gaalis, is this all propoganda?

    Inshallah the day will come soon when these women will have the lathis and Musharaf will be hauled out by his hair much the same way that the police dragged out the lawyers.

  55. Israr says:
    December 19th, 2007 10:44 pm

    What a difference ,this is not police these are Pulsieh, we have such an image of police growing up in Pakistan that don’t even expect them to be different. I had for the first time experience of what police should be like last week,
    Early morning driving to the hospital ( 5 30 am) in the
    middle of no where ,had a flat tire, in few minutes a police car pulls up, officer ( Holts) pulls up she Asks ” can i help you ” I asked reluctanlty if you could ” give some light ” she backed up the car to my flank and did that, couldnt jack the car, I guess too cold and I havnt done it in a while, she called AAA waited with us for 1/2 hour, ( i thought she should go but she stayed , AAA could not do it and said he may have to tow the car, Officer offered and gave a ride ( 20 minutes to a friends House . I am in gratitude but she did it as her duty and said ” I am glad I came this way ”
    And yes no money ….. This is Police ( one can say our police )
    These “ghunday in wardi ” are Pulsieh .

  56. RE says:
    December 19th, 2007 11:41 pm

    Asad You Wrote:

    Pervez

  57. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    December 20th, 2007 6:34 am

    RE.

    Tum Qatl karo ho, ya karamat karo ho

    @ A paranoia is called not something else than a
    Paranoia, your anti-muslim (mullah)sentiments are
    nothing new,
    if your army’s jawans are beheaded, (suppose) ?
    do you think your jawans are putting back the body parts
    of pushtoon awam killed every day in douzens ???

  58. Nayab Ahmad says:
    December 20th, 2007 7:29 am

    Watch this once more, should answer all your questions:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGQjuHOLKWQ

  59. Aqil Sajjad says:
    December 20th, 2007 7:51 am

    Aitezaz temporarily releazed for Eid.

  60. Nayab Ahmad says:
    December 20th, 2007 8:00 am

    Here something that propogandist GEO will never show, atleast small channels like DM are getting voice of poor and middleclass:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_3gVP4OWDQ&feature=related

    Sorry its in punjabi, I thought it will be good to post this as someone said to me yesterday; ‘Punjabies are against musharraf because they cannot stand an urdu speaking president’. I found that very racist comment.

  61. Nayab Ahmad says:
    December 20th, 2007 10:29 am

    Here is something I want to share:
    Vilidmir Putin has been a very controversial politician, he was in KGB, has controled media, changed laws, blamed for rigging but Russians still support him (a few loud lousy opposition is in every country) and one should see the achievements of russia under putin. Russia is again becoming world power, their economy has grown rapidly and they have a say on every world issue.

    Despite all the controversies he has been named ‘Person of the year’ by times.

    Just want to add, his move against rebels in Chechnya was hailed but people still hate him for not saving 118 crew members who were lost on the kursk sub. Whether he wants to drive Russia into a new capitalist era, or embrace the values of its Soviet past, he is determined to put his nation back on its feet and that is all that matters

    Putin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO70NlcqlBQ

    Do we have any leader who is so determined to get Pakistan on its feet and close the chapter of militancy?

  62. MB says:
    December 20th, 2007 10:32 am

    @Nayab
    Sorry to say but its better not to check that address to nation. Mush is a cheater at face, lier to core & a person capable of manipulating words & facts for his likening.

    I am sick of his self created image of himself as savior as well as his out-of-nowhere logics in his own support. He is not more the straight forward commando. He has,thanks to chaudhries he had in his lap, acquired great expertise in diplomacy ( read cheating )

  63. RE says:
    December 20th, 2007 11:07 am

    I heard Nawaz Sharif is getting the most crowed in Punjab bye to chouhdries?

  64. Kadir says:
    December 20th, 2007 12:31 pm

    Nayab Sahib, I assume you are joking with your comment about Putin. If so, its a poor joke and if it is not a joke then its even mroe pathetic.

    Have you read the TIME story on Putin… his being the MAN OF THE YEAR is NOT an honor it is an insult. Remember, Hitler was also declared Time’s Man of the Year for the same reason. Not because he is was good but because Time considered him a danger to the world. That is exactly what TIME is saying about Putin now.

    I guess from your message that people who see despots as heros look at the world very different from normal humanity. No, I do NOT want a Putin. Nor a Hitler. Nor Musharraf. Never.

  65. Aqil Sajjad says:
    December 20th, 2007 3:39 pm

    One thing that comes out in Musharraf’s address after his imposition of the martial law (which he called an emergency) is that the police should not be held accountable because it shatters their morale.

  66. December 20th, 2007 4:24 pm

    @ Lahori

    Mr Lahori you misinterpreted my comment. It was a satire borrowed from Shakespeare where I used symbolism of ‘devil’ for Musharraf and his regime as ‘burning thorne’.

    To read have full text please visit my blog at

    http://uk.360.yahoo.com/imranbhatt

  67. zia m says:
    December 20th, 2007 5:58 pm

    Aitzaz Ahsan arrested again and transfered to unknow location. (Geo News).

  68. Omar says:
    December 20th, 2007 7:00 pm

    @Ahmad R. Shahid

    I agree to a certain extent with your argument. However being part of the executive doesn’t mean you have to carry out every illegal order of the executive. Point I was trying to make was that if our generals, bureaucrats and police officials were really beholden to the constitution and devoted to upholding the rule of law, they would have the moral courage to not allow Musharraf to exploit them for his own cynical means.

    It is very encouraging to see civil society face up to the brutalities of the state, but at the same time it also is extremely discouraging to see the that there hardly seems to be a soul within the executive who has the decency to refuse to obey the illegal rulings of our despotic President. If nothing else a few symbolic resignations from a handful of govt. officials would have convinced the rest of us that there still exist honorable men within the corridors of power in Pakistan.

  69. Ahmad R. Shahid says:
    December 20th, 2007 7:06 pm

    @Omar
    I only know about two IGs. IG Islamabad and IG Sindh. IG Sindh is a retired Major and IG Islamabad was earlier suspended for committing violence against the lawyers and the journalists and was re-instated right after Musharraf got himself secured after imposing the martial law. The IG Islamabad was the former IG Punjab. One can’t expect at least these two IGs to resign against any unjust orders of Musharraf. I don’t know about other IGs.

  70. Ahmad R. Shahid says:
    December 20th, 2007 7:09 pm

    @Nayab Ahmad

    Russia’s economy has improved because of the rising oil prices and not because of any structural changes brought by Putin. Such growth of more than 7% per annum since 2000, based on rise on commodity prices is not sustainable and would soon vanish once the oil prices stabilize. The same growth would have happened no matter who ruled Russia.

  71. No Change says:
    December 20th, 2007 7:15 pm

    This is happenning since forever. It is not new. It will not change. Everyone has been condemning it since forever, and this still not changes. So bottom line ….. it will not change.
    And to everyone who says that this will change now, you have been saying the same thing since forever.

  72. Nayab Ahmad says:
    December 21st, 2007 4:28 am

    @Kadir, havent had a chance to read it yet, but BBC gave a huge coverage to it and reflected very opposite image.
    @Ahmad, agree with you but would you agree with me that russia has more say on international issues today then it had 5 years ago ?

  73. Rafay Kashmiri says:
    December 21st, 2007 4:39 am

    End of Aitizaz

    BB has managed to mame her potential internal Rival

    @ Aitizaz is ” being ” slowly slowly liquidated by his
    own traitors of PPP including BB,
    Sherpaos,
    executioner : Mushy’s adm.

  74. Ahmad R. Shahid says:
    December 21st, 2007 10:16 am

    @Nayab

    I still believe Russia’s influence, which has increased mainly because of its growth in GDP, which is over 50% over the last seven years, would have increased the same, Putin or no Putin. Its not the Gorbachoz or Yeltsin didn’t want international influence. Its just that at that time the economy performed really bad so they couldn’t really influence the rest of the world. And the economy has improved because of oil so the influence would have increased the same.

  75. Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar says:
    December 21st, 2007 3:30 pm

    Owais Mughal sahib, how about doing a post on how Aitzaz Ahsan was treated? Last I checked Aitzaz wasn’t a terrorist. Why was he beaten up and sent back to Lahore on gunpoint? How about condemning that too on your site?

  76. faisal says:
    December 21st, 2007 8:55 pm

    Despicable behavior and to think we had evolved as a nation — into a more aware society. A draconian display of power by the General

  77. RJ says:
    December 22nd, 2007 2:34 pm

    Amazing this forum definitely has some thing against President Musharaf. Acts like this have been happening since the inception of Pakistan, so why blame Musharaf. We all know police brutality in Pakistan history; as a matter of fact it is not only limited to Pakistan; it is very common all around the world.
    Now talk about common sense; break the law in any country including your beloved USA and police will treat you accordingly because it is their job. The kind of picture we have seen in this forum can be captured in any part of the world when cops/police are at work. Does the intellectual who runs this forum forgot “Rodeny King” they should be old enough and wise enough to remember it; I asked these intellects please tell me was it the fault of senior Bush or LA cops.

  78. MQ says:
    December 22nd, 2007 11:29 pm

    RJ:

    It is interesting that you have quoted the example of Rodney King. But do you remember what happened to those policemen afterwards? They were all sacked, tried and imprisoned. The chief of the police had to resign and, if I remember correctly, the mayor of the city also had to go.

  79. RJ says:
    December 22nd, 2007 11:57 pm

    Ok so now you think that decision to suspend a constable should be taken by Musharaf? Go ahead follow some common sense; and lodge a protest against the SHO of the constitution instead of blaming Musharaf. I know Musharaf bashing is a favorite hobby of people on this forum; and even though I am not your side I still want to give you a friendly advice; please don’t over do it; you know why; doing it all the time shows that people who are criticizing him are not honest and they are doing it just to achieve a hidden agenda.

  80. Independent Citizen says:
    December 23rd, 2007 5:41 am

    I feel we are living in police state where law of land never exist. If someone try to raise voice against them, they have many tools to employ against them. The practical demonstration can be seen in our modernized capital. Else where the law of Jis Kee Lathee Us kee Phans is implemented in toto.

    All people calling for writ of Govt or law of land are just spooning the nation (more than a crowd) and we are enjoying the same.

    Mr Musharaf sub say pehlay Pakistan is also having hidden agenda which is sub say pehlay Sadarat… phir pakistan..

    What people are calling about soft image of Pakistan… let me remind u for western world we r failed country n danagerous as well. So we should not be worried and same rule is being exercised by our rulers who are putting last nail to our country existance.

  81. Shaji says:
    December 23rd, 2007 6:41 am

    @RJ: Wouldn’t u agree that the support from a higher power gives a bigger set of balls to the law enforcement agencies? Don’t they themselves get swept in their ‘control’ and ‘authority’ that they forget who they’re dealing with? Aren’t they the same people who were sworn in the serve and protect and not abuse a while ago?

    Power corrupts, and Mush/Bush give them this sense of power.

  82. RJ says:
    December 23rd, 2007 11:43 am

    @Shaji:You are talking some thing that is norm every where. Again try to understand incident like this will be happening all the time every where, so don’t blame the authorities. Second do you think any police in this world allows you to break the laws doesn’t matter how cruel it looks; answer with all due respect is “no”. If I were a women and I start shooting every where; do you think the police in western world (sorry I am bringing western world all the time because some folks in this forum are very obsessed with them and give their references all the time) would first say “Mam would you please drop the arms so we can serve you the coffee”; no God damn it; they will shoot her right in the head. If naive people in Pakistan don’t understand this simple fact, it is their fault, not the fault of authority; because nobody, I will say it again, nobody is above the law.

    I have said it before and say it again, Musharaf good or bad is just a leader and he will go away sooner or later; so instead of bashing him all the time forum like this should take the responsibility of educating people. And you know the first step to do this; is to start bashing our selves; I am ready to point finger on myself before any ruler or politician, do you “hollier than though’s” are?

  83. S.A.Mallal says:
    December 25th, 2007 3:43 pm

    @ RJ
    You say: “—nobody, I will say it again, nobody is above the law.”
    I say: What about dictator Mushrraf. He thinks that he is not only above the law he is a law giver also by some divine right.

    You say: “—-he [Mushrraf]will go away sooner or later.”
    I say: How? Like Ayub or like Zia. Anyway sooner the better!Amen.

  84. Gender Equality says:
    December 26th, 2007 11:28 am

    I think this shows gender equality in Pakistan is improving, that is same treatment for men and women.
    I remember back in 1991, during a police raid at my university, the police beat the crap out of male stundents, but left the female students alone.
    Folks, this is modernization of Pakistan… welcome to the new millinium.

  85. February 3rd, 2008 4:14 am

    When I think of Z.A.Bhutto , Dr.AbdusSalam , Imran Khan, Abdustaar edhi ,Benazir Bhutto shaheed ,Aitzaz Ahsen ,Ali ahmed kurd .Munir A malik Just.Tariq Mehmood & CJ of Pakistan Iftekhar Ch. .. I start believing .. that Someday , somehow …. We the PAKISTANIS achieve the Munzil….. its still far away & u dont know under how many Millitary rulers & their LOTTAs politician ,& Brutal Police & White dressed Ghondas … we have to Struggle but HAVE A HEART !!!
    Ehde Nou say aaj bhi ehd Ustawar hay !!
    Main abhi Mura Nahi !!!

  86. sanjeeda komal says:
    February 12th, 2008 2:38 pm

    we welcome jeo news in U.S.A. and Canada and hope that we will able to watch some good program.Once again thak s to jeo .

  87. April 2nd, 2008 11:21 am

    Hi iam Asad Ali Shah Customs Officer .I would like to draw the attention of mr president musharaf and newly elected prime minister Mr Yousaf Raza Gilani towards
    misbehaviour of Islamabad Police with passengers entering or leaving Islamabad.They not only threat passengers but also ask for bribe.This is a shameful act of Islamabad Police.I request authorties to remove barriers from roads so that people of pakistan could safely travel in their home country.Also the police man on road must be an educated person.and he must show nice behaviour to people.
    And police Deptt.must be cleaned from these black shapes.

  88. June 25th, 2009 1:32 am

    President Asif Ali Zardari’s visit to his hometown Nawabshah

    President Asif Ali Zardari’s visited his hometown Nawabshah presently called as Shaheed Benazirabad District, on June 23, 2009, Tuesday. He came here to look after his inherited agricultural lands. Other reason of his visit was to see a few of his ailing blood relatives. He stayed at Zardari House Nawabshah situated at Housing Society Nawabshah Taluka. After taking reports from the caretakers and supervisors of his agricultural lands he held meetings with the office bearers of Pakistan Peoples Party Nawabshah. He also held meetings with the Members of National Assembly and the Members of Provincial Assembly from Shaheed Benazirabad District and a few other PPP members of assembly from the surrounding districts. The journalists of Nawabshah held a meeting and discussed the important matters of the district. The President told them that all the development and other progressive works are being done on merit. He told that a scheme work also has been made internally in the PPP to differentiate the peoples’ works on urgent, immediate and merit basis. In my opinion, the party workers are satisfied with the work of present government. It should be mentioned here that this was the second visit of the President Asif Ali Zardari to his hometown after election February 2008.

    By Masood Ahmed Bazmi Malik Qadri,
    M.A Economics, B.Sc, B.Ed, LLB-I, Associate Engineer in Electrical, Postgraduate Degrees holder in Islamic Law, Islamic Jurisprudence, Hadith and Tafseer Quran.
    ?A free lance web journalist from House No.2107/59, Budhal Shah Colony, Taluka Nawabshah, Shaheed Benazeerabad District, Province of Sindh, Pakistan.

  89. Watan Aziz says:
    May 10th, 2010 11:22 pm

    Yes

    And I do get amazed when people suggest more police powers without police accountability in balance.

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