Where is the Pakistan Military Headed?

Posted on October 11, 2009
Filed Under >Adil Najam, Law & Justice, Politics
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Adil Najam

The military is never really out of the news in Pakistan. Nor is it ever far from the center of Pakistan politics. But recent event have brought the question of where the Pakistan military is headed into even sharper relief than usual.

There is much speculation – maybe too much speculation – on where the Pakistan military is headed in the coming days and weeks.

There are some who argue that following the attack on the GHQ the military will act even more swiftly on extremists in Pakistan – whether in the Waziristan region or in Southern Punjab. Others feel that the furore created by the Kerry-Lugar Bill has so poisoned the civil-military relationship in Pakistan that even the immediate future of Pakistan’s political displacements may (again) be in doubt. Yet others would argue that while the tensions are all real, the military is in that phase that comes after each prolonged period of military rule when it prefers to remain in the political background while it consolidates its public image.

My own current sense is that there may be some truth in all three scenarios. Possibly in a combination of the three. Of course, there could be other directions in the mix too. What do you think? Where is the Pakistan military headed in the next many days? And what does that mean about where Pakistan is headed?

71 Comments on “Where is the Pakistan Military Headed?”

  1. Haroon says:
    October 11th, 2009 9:59 pm

    I do not think that the military will interfere in politics. Even though it is pissed off with KLB it will eventually accept it.

    But an operation in Wazirstan is now long due and this is the time to root out the militants, but in a way that does not turn the local population against the military.

  2. Moeen says:
    October 11th, 2009 11:07 pm

    I guess Military remains the most powerful politican party in Pak. Its so funny that the Corps Commanders discussed a foreign policy matter in their meeting? Why didn’t the high officials in Police, Rangers, Customs, Railways etc discuss this bill in their meetings? On top of that, The Chief said he didn’t like the bill. Who the hell is he to say this in the presence of a National Assambly? Only this thing was enough to make me mad. They are Govt Servants who are supposed to do their respective job:)(I have no political affiliations)

  3. Arsalan says:
    October 11th, 2009 11:31 pm

    Come on moeen. the bill is designed to effect the military and to subjugate them. why should they not discuss it. military should not be under the directive of the politicians. they are defenders of Pakistan and hence they let their voice heard when our politicians knowingly let a foreign country dictate policy to us. and let me remind you that our politicians are also govt servants and hence should “SERVE” and not “RULE”

  4. Syed says:
    October 11th, 2009 11:43 pm

    Bhai jab aap jesi paree likhi awam Zardari jeso ko president elect kerti hai…..wahan aisahee hota hai….Tell me what is your national assembly???? bunch of chors…with no zameer.
    TALK ABOUT PRESENCE OF NATIONAL ASSEMBLY…

  5. saa says:
    October 11th, 2009 11:49 pm

    Allah! karay phir army aa jay aur kabhi na jay because Yeh Ullu ki Patthee Qaum is he laiq hai…
    “God only help those who help themselves” apni help kerna to dur ki baat, this nation jumps from a 12 story building and than curse their qismat when they get hurt….

  6. Moeen says:
    October 11th, 2009 11:56 pm

    Good. National assemblies have always been chor; prior to all the marshal laws. Let the marshal law be the law of the land. People graduating from Pakistan Military Academy should have the fate of all Pakistanies in their hands; after all they get all the training in PMA how to run a country:)

  7. SHR says:
    October 12th, 2009 12:09 am

    @ Moeen ….. completely agree with what you said.

    @ Syed ….. syed saab with all due respect , all of us completely agree on the fact that our politicians are not angels; they are all corrupt and we have selected them, however, what choice did Pakistani people have? people like you and me hate politics/politicians after years of programed destruction of its/their image and off course army had the great role to play in it (in addition to the self destructive role politicians played in it). The fact remains that political government as much corrupt it can be is still answerable to the public in contrast to army dictators who are not answerable to any body. Army should be restricted to their barracks and to perform their jobs under commands from civilian government and not other way around, they have already destroyed our country enough. The sooner we realize this fact, the better.
    It is essential for the future of our country that educated masses start to take interest in politics, because we need honest and really hard working people (with no familial and feudal connection) to serve this country.
    It is time that GHQ gets the hell out of politics. I strongly believe that if we let the political process continue and if good people start to join politics, after some years bad people will be shunted out and we would see some prosperity in our country. (off course i have no political association).

  8. Moeen says:
    October 12th, 2009 12:24 am

    SHR: I completely agree with your comments. People don’t realize that those who are against the role of Army in politics are not the fans of politicians; they all agree that politicians are all corrpt. But bringing the army in politics is worse and its so sad that after so many years, we have learnt nothing. Politician is a politician, even in a country like USA, politicians put everything on stake due to the politics; no surprises here. But please, its high time that we tell the army what their role is.

  9. Ali Athar says:
    October 12th, 2009 12:54 am

    In my opinion, after Musharraf’s rule (and misrule during his last 2 years) the army top brass came to this conclusion that taking a direct role in the political affairs of the country has severely damaged its reputation. In fact, they were willing to cede the governmental affairs to the civilian leadership, provided of course they show responsibility and results.

    However, the current government (in view of the army top brass) has continuously failed on these accounts and ventured into army domains (i.e., ISI, nuclear arena, and somewhat foreign policy). This of course was unacceptable to them and now the army leadership is contemplating going back to the 1990′s when it had a more indirect role in the country’s affairs, much like how Gen Waheed Kakar dealt with the civilians.

    As far as, Waziristan and militancy in general is concerned, the military thinks that it is the menace to be dealt with, which has outlived its utility (be it Kashmir or Afghanistan). However, the greater threat for them is India and the 70% of its military stationed near the Pakistani border.

    As far as Kerry-Lugar bill is concerned, in my opinion it was more of a mis-communication between various departments of the state (and may be, if the reports are right, due to some unnecessarily ambitious tones taken by the authors), rather than a deliberate attempt to cow the military, but this will be rectified by taking in the opinions of all the stakeholders.

    IMHO, the civilians should have control over military affairs, but this can only be done with through performance (in at least the sectors they have full control, i.e., economy, education, health, etc). And then with a passage of time, the military would voluntarily and gradually cede policy areas to civilians, because it is in the interest of both the parties. That is the way to go about it.

  10. Ibrahim Saeed says:
    October 12th, 2009 12:58 am

    @ Moeen: Moeen with all due respect, when you authorize the army to be responsible for the national security of this country, than it becomes obligatory upon them to discuss foreign policy issues. You argument is not only shows your ignorance and lack of knowledge, but i question how is the customs, railways responsible for national security. And yet again, the police and rangers are subservient to the interior ministry. But, when the PM of Pakistan openly declares, the Chief of Army Staff will have fully authority to conduct operations and define national security policy, than you surrender you power. The PM could have had appointed the Defence minister, but he chose to appoint the Chief. So when you put a person in charge on National Security, he discusses such stuff in the greater interest of the country. So no sir, he does not dare himself, to say such stuff, he is given the authority by the political government to flex his muscles. Under the rules of business, the President should convey anything he has to say to the PM, the PM to the Defence Minister, Defence Minister to the Chairman Joint Staff Committee and it the CJSC who is the only person authorize to deal directly with the Chief of Army Staff. But, since the political leadership, deems it fit to deal with him directly, you surrender authority. So think again!

    @ all : I have been noticing this alot, on alot of blogs, that alot of arguments are based on hatred towards the army, rather than on merits. I respect the opinion of all of you people, but please, dont judge the army on basis of the actions of one man, but rather on merits. The Army is a friend to this country, so do not consider it your enemy. I strongly urge you all to re consider. We all have someone in the army. These individuals in the army are a part of our society. They are all as committed as any of your relatives or friends in the army. So i hope we collectively re consider our opinion.

  11. walking_by says:
    October 12th, 2009 1:30 am

    Those who suggest that Military rule is better than corrupt politicians forget two things. First, politicians can be voted out. This is possible even in a shaky, far from perfect democratic system. Soldiers cannot.

    Second, a General who elects himself to a (permanent-until-killed-or-dethroned) position of power is just as corrupt as a typical politician.

    I believe each citizen can do more than merely talking about how corrupt politicians are. Start by voting without fail. You can vote for the best among your choices. If you are totally unsatisfied with the choice of candidates, contest the elections yourself or encourage those who can. Read widely. Follow policy debates. Write to the press, to your political representative and your friends and family. None of these measures will ensure turn around immediately. In fact they will lead to disappointment more often than not. But they have to be taken and followed starting today so that at least the next generation can hope for a better polity.

  12. Nabeel says:
    October 12th, 2009 1:42 am

    @Moeen – it would be naive to understate the control of the army in the political system of the country and to think that suddenly army should pack up and leave…not going to happen soon.. However, the reason that the army is speaking up this time is because they are being directly affected by the bill.. for good or for bad reason, if there shall be an audit/probe into where money is being spent.. everyone shall start squealing..

    @Syed – For Heaven’s sake would people stop crying about why Zardari is the president. 95% of the critics who lambast Zardari have not even voted in the elections. I feel people who have not been part of the political process have a right to harangue leaders on what is right or what is wrong. You can indeed question him being a tax payer of where your money is being spent. But I think given that we are still in a parliamentary form of government (however flawed that might be) we need to believe in the political process and try to make it better than to give credence to the president.

    I feel that sometimes after the involvement of army for more than 60 years into the country we expect it to leave all so suddenly.. that is not going to happen.. There are numerous examples of countries that have had their bouts of civil-military regimes and they have always slipped back again into a dictatorial rule.. Let us all believe in politics and let governments run through 5 years and it is only due to constant running of the system will there be some sort of accountability in the system..and hence I agree with SHR here..

    Will the army take over right now.. I am not very positive on that since the army has to repair the image of the army that has been dragged into the daily affairs of the state by Musharraf and discredited.. however if the politicians continue to wrangle over small stuff.. people might actually give the army another chance..

    We must all remember.. that in the country the army never occupies through force.. people generally tend to welcome their takeovers.. We as citizens and as a nation need to decide whether our army is the way for us to go ahead…

  13. Moeen says:
    October 12th, 2009 2:06 am

    Nabeel: I understand Pak Army can’t just pack & leave. But it also sends a signal, things haven’t changed in Pak yet:) Marshal Law can come if the Army ain’t ready to change her mind and mind her own business:)

  14. Aamir Ali says:
    October 12th, 2009 3:26 am

    Army is directly affected by foreign, internal and defense policies and is also a direct participant in them, hence the Army has a right to express its opinion and lobby for its view. Those who view army as “govt servants” don’t seem to under civil-military relationship. The US military is currently fiercely lobbying Obama to send more troops to Afghanistan, while Obama has some other ideas.

  15. Rizwan says:
    October 12th, 2009 3:57 am

    This is Pakistan’s army not of the India which does not have the right to meddle in sovereignty matters of the country. One up to what extent should put up with the servility of our politicians in front of foreign lords. Of course, when they will touch nadir of disrespect, then army mode shall have to be activated automatically. This is what happened in Kerry-Luger bill case.

  16. Zahra Asif Sukhera says:
    October 12th, 2009 4:24 am

    I can’t say where the military leadership is heading, but I sadly have to admit that the lower and middle ranks are heavily paying the price of the on-going operations. While the high-ups are busy discussing the K.L. Bill or the Waziristan issue on long tables, their subordinates are left to battle on the mountains of Swat, to protect the forts of the Army installations, to guard the streets and highways of Quetta and Peshawar and to ultimately embrace death by the hand of the terrorists. Before we begin to fathom the mystery of the upcoming scenario, lets all take a moment to salute and pay homage to these brave martyrs who valiantly defend their motherland and die for it. Long live the soldier!

  17. desi says:
    October 12th, 2009 4:26 am

    Dont worry there wont be a any Martial Law anytime soon. First business at hand is to take care of the turds and their supporters, handlers and sympathizers that attacked the GHQ – an act of war

  18. Nadeem Ahsan says:
    October 12th, 2009 7:31 am

    This could lead to another train wreck. It all depends on how Zardari and co treat Gen Kayani and the Corpse Commanders. If the Govt tries to enforce their authority as bestowed on them by the Parliament, they will be kicked out sooner rather than later. It all depends on whether Zardari and PM Gilani can toe the army line in the coming weeks and months.

    It is better for Zardari to sack Gen Kayani very quietly and replace him with a more pliant Chief. But the big question then becomes if that ‘pliant’ chief will remain so once in office. Would he or would he not become another Musharraf?

    More than asking Where the Pakistan military is headed, the pertinent question to ask is Where Pakistan is headed?

  19. Deeda-i-Beena says:
    October 12th, 2009 7:38 am

    The previous Generals of the Pak Army were of the “Knee-Jerk” variety. Some times even “pre-emptive” OR in their protectionist mode, “Preventive.”

    Unlike the rest in the country, they seem to have learnt their lessons including the present General.

    NOW they FABIUS.
    As in the Fabian Society.

  20. Roxio says:
    October 12th, 2009 7:49 am

    The army has been dented several times by repeated attacks by terrorists who would sometimes be riding on motorbikes,a public bus or even by a pedestrian.Obviously many questions will be raised about the level of security in and around army installations.Rawalpindi itself where the army is headquartered has seen about a dozen attacks,atleast 5 have been carried out within few hundred yards of the powerful 10 Corps HQ.
    Each time the attack is carried out,it dents the confidence of the people in the army to protect itself and a new false pride to the terrorists that they can attack at will and even the army is not safe,let alone an ordinary citizen.

    There is no second thought on going into the terrorists den and taking them to task.The military as well as the PAF should unleashe its full firepower on the terrorists in waziristan and elsewhere and decimate their infrastructure completely.Several thousands will be killed,many innocents but thats a price to be paid.
    Militants in south Punjab is a different story.There is no need for the army to go in there.Instead something like a special police swat team can do the job.Spies should be mingled among the general public in south Punjab and intelligence passed to the crack commando force who then move in and kill them all.

  21. ratee says:
    October 12th, 2009 8:14 am

    This time do not blame the army as the civilian Government seems like a servile to the USA and so incompetent that public support against might take a turn for the worst if it does not take some respectful steps.

    Like standing up and challenging some aspects of arrogance from USA when that is necessary when the sovereignty of Pakistan is being sold at a very cheap price.

    Pakistan is sacrificed 2000 soldiers and 2.200 civilians far more than what USA had lost in 9/11 attacks and the war in Afghanistan, but still USA and their media says Pakistan has not done enough. Has anyone in the Government stood up to state this fact to the western media and what Pakistan has suffered by supporting this war on terror?

  22. Viqar Minai says:
    October 12th, 2009 9:30 am

    The latest civilian-military tiff over the Lerry-Lugar Bill once again underscores the fact that the Pak Army is the dominant power center in Pakistan. Thus, it is a no-brainer that whenever there is a civilian dispensation in Pakistan, the country resembles an organization which has two CEOs. And whenver push comes to shove, it turns out one CEO has much more say in so far as the security, foreign, and thus – by extension- the economic policies are concerned. This situation is clearly exacrbated by the fact that our politicians are always undercutting each other for their own petty ends, while the military is a much more cohesive organization, clear-headed about its objective, and intent upon securing its own interest and dominance by any means. It must be understood that, to the military, this conduct seems neither selfish nor unjustified, as it really believes that, ultimately, it is the sole arbiter of the national interest of Pakistan. Indeed, to someone like Gen. Musharraf for instance, the military IS Pakistan.

    Unless the people of Pakistan realize that too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth, and muster the courage to change this state of affairs once and for all, this circus is likely to continue.

    More important than the K-L Bill, which is no doubt intrusive, Pakistanis need urgently to figure out how their nation is goig to be governed. Until they do, the military will remain firmly perched at the top.

  23. Eidee Man says:
    October 12th, 2009 10:08 am

    Sadly, the situation is so dire that we would be happy with any arrangement that ensures the basic safety of people who are being butchered every single day.

  24. Anwar says:
    October 12th, 2009 10:10 am

    I think Zardari lost this round.. he overplayed his hand for self preservation and after strong posturing by the army against the K-L bill, he is on retreat. Hussain Hakani, PK ambassador in Washington, who also played a key role in including clauses to control army is on the way out and some other changes are coming.

    Army will not take over however will stay in the background. It knows well that the money spigot is elsewhere and it is not possible for country that runs on grants and aid from overseas to be fiercely independent…

    Army may take swift action however spares for helicopters are in short supply, AF is short of precision munition, attrition rate is high and the mess is getting bigger.

    Attention needs to be focused also on Punjabi Talibans in addition to NWFP.

    Pakistan needs breathing room to chart her own destiny. Pakistan also needs statesmen. All in short supply. This month may be crucial.

  25. October 12th, 2009 11:56 am

    Comments from the ATP Facebook Page:

    - “I guess Military remains the most powerful politican party in Pak. Its so funny that the Corps Commanders discussed a foreign policy matter in their meeting? Why didn’t the high officials in Police, Rangers, Customs, Railways etc discuss this bill in their meetings? On top of that, The Chief said he didn’t like the bill. Who the hell is he to say this in the presence of a National Assambly? Only this thing was enough to make me mad. They are Govt Servants who are supposed to do their respective job:)(I have no political affiliations)”
    - “the day our President, PM, politicians and Parliament becomes that capable, Army would not have to do the politics”
    - “This approach also supports illegal actions of all the generals in the history of Pak.”
    - “there are channels which the army could’ve used to express their opinion. Going on media like this… not good. Then again, one can’t just sit and watch when stakes are that high.”
    - “u guys wont understand,this is all about politics,both the govt n army r doing all this to get money also but without restrictions,y r we wasting time on them???”
    - “Noone is arguing here that the politicians are angels; they are all corrupt.But we should let the system work. At this point in the history of Pak, Army should be told in very clear words what their role is. If you do not disapprove this, you are telling the army, come and topple AGAIN:) ‘Stakes’ were always high for all the marshal laws.”
    - “USA doesn’t give zakat. She looks for her own interests. So getting money without any restrictions won’t happen.”
    - “constitution is the system if you dont follow constitution than there is only MUSSHRAF SYSTEM,ZARDARI SYSTEM.——.Wich system should be allowed to work because nobody follows the constitution,thus there is actually no system.”
    - “well, constitution thing is good, but time has proven that this Democracy is not the system suitable for Muslims. Remember in Constitution, it is mentioned that Islam would be the religion of state, but Islam doesn’t support this version of Democracy. We desperately need to change our system, otherwise we’ll be always like slaves”
    - “If a version does not work for us, lets modify it and make it work. Let us not blame the version or the system, but only ourselves for not doing enough to make it work.
    Under the present circumstances, event Khilafat would collapse, so please let us all work on the basics to be provided to a nation before it can accept any form of governance as legitimate. the only quick revolution available to pakistanis at the moment is talibanistan and that not what the majority wants, so a slow revolutionary cleanup is needed, not a quickfix. It starts with stopping our servitude to all : The USA, Saudi Arabia and China and focussing on what is in Pakistan’s interest.”
    - “all of us completely agree on the fact that our politicians are not angels; they are all corrupt and we have selected them, however, what choice did Pakistani people have? people like us hate politics/politicians after years of programed destruction of its/their image and off course army had the great role to play in it (in addition to the self destructive role politicians played in it). The fact remains that political government as much corrupt it can be is still answerable to the public in contrast to army dictators who are not answerable to any body. Army should be restricted to their barracks and to perform their jobs under commands from civilian government and not other way around, they have already destroyed our country enough. The sooner we realize this fact, the better.
    It is essential for the future of our country that educated masses start to take interest in politics, because we need honest and really hard working people (with no familial and feudal connection) to serve this country.
    It is time that GHQ gets the hell out of politics. I strongly believe that if we let the political process continue and if good people start to join politics, after some years bad people will be shunted out and we would see some prosperity in our country. (off course i have no political association).”
    - “in THEORY I agree with you but in PRACTICAL ON-THE-GROUND REALITY in Pakistan, I do not. All we need is a political LEADER who leads the nation and the Army will automatically restrict itself to its defined role. That LEADER it seems will take some time to come. Until that time we have to live with this tweak in our political system”
    - “they dont giv zakat they want us to take money n shut up,their weapons were caught in swat,this money is to show that they were innocent n their weapons were used but they dont have any idea how?”
    - “You seem to believe in ‘conspiracy theories’ which don’t have any evidence, whatsoever:)”
    - “with all due respect, when you authorize the army to be responsible for the national security of this country, than it becomes obligatory upon them to discuss foreign policy issues. You argument is not only shows your ignorance and lack of knowledge, but i question how is the customs, railways responsible for national security. And yet again, the police and rangers are subservient to the interior ministry. But, when the PM of Pakistan openly declares, the Chief of Army Staff will have fully authority to conduct operations and define national security policy, than you surrender you power. The PM could have had appointed the Defence minister, but he chose to appoint the Chief. So when you put a person in charge on National Security, he discusses such stuff in the greater interest of the country. So no sir, he does not dare himself, to say such stuff, he is given the authority by the political government to flex his muscles. Under the rules of business, the President should convey anything he has to say to the PM, the PM to the Defence Minister, Defence Minister to the Chairman Joint Staff Committee and it the CJSC who is the only person authorize to deal directly with the Chief of Army Staff. But, since the political leadership, deems it fit to deal with him directly, you surrender authority. So think again!

    @ all : I have been noticing this alot, on alot of blogs, that alot of arguments are based on hatred towards the army, rather than on merits. I respect the opinion of all of you people, but please, dont judge the army on basis of the actions of one man, but rather on merits. The Army is a friend to this country, so do not consider it your enemy. I strongly urge you all to re consider. We all have someone in the army. These individuals in the army are a part of our society. They are all as committed as any of your relatives or friends in the army. So i hope we collectively re consider our opinion.”
    - “Its not a question if Army is friend or not. Everyone needs to do his/her own job. Chief of the Army Staff is a Govt servant; he isn’t supposed to have any role in any policy, whatsoever. Zaradari has a Defence Ministry, a Foriegn Ministery and please note, Army doesn’t have to do anything with the National Security. They are just supposed to follow the orders of the Head of the State. Rescue people in floods, protect in case of an invasion; within or outside etc. Guess what, if the PM announces that the Chief of the Army Staff needs to run the operations; thats what he is supposed to do; he needs to shut up on policy issues. You can’t ask an engineer to perfrom a cardiac surgery:)”

  26. October 12th, 2009 12:00 pm

    More comments from the ATP Facebook Page:

    - “Noone hates Army. Everyone is asking the Army to mind their own business:)”
    - “N hates army. Joke of century. N took birth their, grown up their……and now again meeting btw shabaz n kiyani give raise to issue of kerry logar bill……….People knows what is their agenda now!”
    - “For as long as fickle politicians like Shabaz Sharif and Ch Nisar keep meeting Army Chief in a covert fashion; @Moeen your assessment above will remain theoretical. It is such politicians who first drag the Army into politics and then vehemently condemn & bash the ‘fauji intervention’ at every forum. Unfortunately, you can only fool some of the people some of the time”
    - “pak army ix da key for Our sUrvivAl…!!”
    - “and so is good spelling.”
    - “Mr. Asif Ali Zardari previously known as Mr. 10%, passed the most of his life in JAIL on the cases of corruption and when came into power eliminate all of his cases using his power. Mr. Rehman Malik the world top corrupt man in terms of National Security Interest. And the good news is that they are our leaders whome we have to listen to and whome we have to follow like a blind man holding hand of someone to let him cross the road. We are blind persons and are on a road of crises and these great leaders are letting us cross the road and telling us all of the time that there is nothing which would harm us from anywhere.

    In this whole big scenario, Pakistan Army and ISI as a system appears to monitor everything being the defender to the National Security. When these politician are just sleeping the Army along with ISI, Rangers and FC are doing their job along with there job as well. They are not leading the Politics but just watching at it.

    People suggested here that Army should mind his job only and not intervene into any other system. But why not just give a hand of applause to Pakistan Army that how briliantly they are MASHALLAH minding their own job of protecting the country and National Security interests as well as having a watch on these politicians who has got the history of selling their own mothers on a replacement of money.”
    - “border defence is not the only thing that army should concern.
    the main objective is to defence the nation and the country.
    ager mulk ka plitical system damm ho aur awam buri tarha piss rahay hu tu aisay system ka koi faida nahi tab Army he ko kuch karna parta hai aur jaahan tak yeh kehtay hai loog k KAISA LAGAY K ARMY MEETINGS MAI FORIEGN POLICIES discuss hu tu aap sub loogo ko yeh jaan kar fakhar hoga k hamri army is kaam k liyey aik politician say ziyada acha act karsaktay hai.
    Be realistic ap ko ap k political system nai kiya diya? siwaiy is k k aap ki awam ko atay (flour) khareednay k liyey marna parraaha hai?”
    - “Write another comment…pehlay hum galiya daitay thay ayub khan ko jub wo chala gaya tu us hi ko pukartay rahay
    hum nay media ki wrong full heart enemy ki wajha say musharraf k khilaf baat ki for no reason just for good say in our gathering but aj hum phgir us he shaks ki taraf dekh rahay hai kiyaa aap ko nahi lagta k pehlay ka door(era) is door(era) say behtar tha???????????????”
    - “I think we have to see the affect the involvement of COAS when our beloved democratic leader was dragging his feet in reinstating CJ Ifthikhar. I think the best bet for us would be an army which does not impose Martial Law but nudges our elected leaders when they get wayward which I think Gen Kayani has done now!!!!!”
    - “I think first we need to sort out where is nation headed. If the nation and its civilian leaders have deficit of vision and are not clear about its direction how can they set any goals for the army? We celebrate when army takes on power and within a short period become highly democratic striving for an elected Governemnt followed by disillusionment with civilian rulers due to corruption and incompetence, street demonstrations, anarchy, and once again wishing for a strong person to rule. And the cycle is repeated.”
    - “i think ARMY shoul GIFT us some thing special on 10th year of sucessfull miltary control”

  27. Natasha says:
    October 12th, 2009 1:02 pm

    Towards eradicating terrorism more aggressively than ever before.

    I dont think they’ll disturb the democratic set up.

  28. Afzal Siddiqi says:
    October 12th, 2009 1:19 pm

    Pakistan Army is a state within a state which is only interested in looking after its own institutional interests. It sugar-coats them as “the national interest”.

    The generals will take over the government if it suits them, and they will stay out of government if it suits them.

    Ayub, Yahya, Zia, Musharraf, the separation of East Pakistan, sectarianism, the murder of Bhutto, the murder of Bugti, and international pariah status are just a few of the gifts that Pakistan Army has given to the people whose money pays its salaries.

  29. Rashid Ali says:
    October 12th, 2009 2:01 pm

    Further elaborating on Nadeem Ahsan’s comment, the nation and its civilian & religous leaders must decide what direction Pakistan will take before they can direct which way Army is headed. Army is the only organized and disciplined organization. Rest are elements of disunity, chaos and near anarchy

  30. Aamir Ali says:
    October 12th, 2009 3:00 pm

    @Nadeen Ahsan

    So you want Gen Kiyani to be sacked for expressing his opinion ala Gen Jehangir Karamat ? Wow you folks never learn from history do you ? Keep your anti-army hatred in check, many of the dark episodes in Pakistan’s history have an equal civilian involvement in them.

  31. Haroon says:
    October 12th, 2009 3:12 pm

    What I would like to see on where the military heads in Pakistan is:

    1. Military stays away from politics.
    2. Politicians stay away from military and let it become a professional force again.
    3. Current civil and military leadership serve out their terms without interference from the other so that the process can start getting on track.
    4. ISI ultimately dissolved (its not really needed).

  32. Roxio says:
    October 12th, 2009 3:31 pm

    @Haroon
    Funny comment by Haroon saying ISI be dissolved.
    Were it not for ISI,Pakistan would have long become a happy playground for Mossad and RAW and US would have installed another Hamid Karzai as president.

    There are many national interest decisions that the Army chief takes for the country but you and I would never know because of their sensitivity.
    Secondly without a professional watchdog,Asif Zardari would long have taken away whatever was left in the national coffers.
    Lets not forget he made two failed attempts to bring ISI under Rahman Malik’s control.If that were to happen,I would assume a nightmare scenario for for the country

  33. Rammal says:
    October 12th, 2009 4:21 pm

    1. I want General Kayani to be the Chief Executive of Pakistan.

    2. No enemy of Pakistan has destroyed Pakistan more than the people of Waziristan. I want the Pakistani troops to withdraw from FATA and deploy on the FATA-NWFP border. We should fence the FATA border. Believe me guys, FATA is the Big C. It’s incurable Cancel. Let’s stop this cancer from spreading to other parts of the body by cutting this infected part, or else we’ll lose the entire body (Pakistan).

  34. Haroon says:
    October 12th, 2009 4:27 pm

    @ Roxio.

    Roxio says: “There are many national interest decisions that the Army chief takes for the country but you and I would never know because of their sensitivity.”

    Funny logic…. if you and I do not know they happen… then, maybe, they do not happen!

    Everything else in your comment is speculation and rumor mongering. And therefore does not deserve an answer.

    All of the rest is NOT about fact but what YOU think. And you can think whatever you want.

    When you have a half-reasonable argument that can be based on any intellectually sound argument instead of your own biases and likes, come back and maybe we can have a conversation.

  35. shakeel says:
    October 12th, 2009 4:40 pm

    To Haroon:

    I agree with you mate on points 1,2 and 3.

    However, pt 4, I cant agree with. We do need ISI but what we need is a new generation of spies in this ISI. One that is unattached to its past. Every country needs a spy agency, and Pak is no different.

  36. shakeel says:
    October 12th, 2009 4:51 pm

    I dont understand the comments that are anti Mr 10%.

    Dont get me wrong, I hate him. I hate each and every party in Pakistan. None are worthy of any praise.

    However, I think the situation he inherited, he has done better than expected. Not perfect but given the standard of our politicians, he is not the worst of them. Surprisingly.

  37. ASAD says:
    October 12th, 2009 5:15 pm

    I think Haroon raises a valid point.

    Why do we need ISI.

    We already have a separate unit for military intelligence – MI. We also have civil intelligence. The purpose of ISI is only to interfere in Pakistan politics and bring about coups. It really have no bearing on foreign intelligence.

    Given how bad its reputation is IN Pakistan as well as outside, it may be better to dismantle it altogether.

  38. Aamir Ali says:
    October 12th, 2009 5:35 pm

    If the ISI has a bad reputation with politicians internally, and with foreign govt externally, I would say the agency is doing its job. I don’t want an ISI or an Army which is much loved by foreign govt and internal mischief-makers.

  39. Haroon says:
    October 12th, 2009 5:37 pm

    Aamir Ali. And THAT is your argument for keeping the ISI. That you want Pakistani institutions to be institutions of bad repute!

    Wow, with that level of “intelligence” maybe you should also join the ISI!

  40. shakeel says:
    October 12th, 2009 6:11 pm

    can someone name me one agency that does not have a bad name one way or another?

    US? Russia? UK? China? India? Israel?

    I agree with Aamir Ali on this one.

  41. Roxio says:
    October 12th, 2009 7:09 pm

    ISI should retain its repute as the first line of defence for the country.And much more than just defence it should keep an hawkish eye on its neighbours.

    Consider this scenario:
    Russia invades Mexico and occupies the country and conducts daily air strikes on the US-Mexico border,killing people and demands more Russian troops to be sent to Mexico.Do you think CIA would sit still and watch things happening from the sidelines?

    80% of Pakistan’s problems stem from its eastern landlocked neigbor and there seems no end in sight.
    Whoever argues for ISI’s dissolution is playing music to the Indians.Infact I would go a step further,it should be further strenthened into an impregnable intelligence and counter intelligence outfit and it must remain under the military command answerable only to the COAS.
    The prime ministers of this country are too weak and imcompetent to be reported to.

  42. AHR says:
    October 12th, 2009 7:15 pm

    This weekend’s dramatic attack on the army headquarters in Rawalpindi, the military center of Pakistan, underscores the volatility and fragility of politics in the world’s second largest Muslim country. The Taliban attackers demonstrated that despite losing the campaign in the Swat Valley this summer, they retain the capacity for terror in the heart of Pakistan – striking, in effect, into the Pentagon of Pakistan. And the attack, which left 16 dead, will almost certainly revive concerns about the capacity of the Pakistani army to protect its nuclear arsenal. If the Taliban can get into army headquarters, where else might it strike next?

    http://ahraza.wordpress.com/2009/10/12/pakistan-the-next-nuclear-nightmare/

  43. Aamir Ali says:
    October 12th, 2009 7:34 pm

    @Haroon

    Yes I want an intelligence agency that is active and feared abroad, and is also feared by traitors, terrorists and corrupt politicians internally. ISI currently performs this task and its abilities should be enhanced.

    Since ISI is also the only agency collecting external intelligence for Pakistan, those who talk about its dissolution clearly are not interested in safeguarding the Pakistani state.

  44. razia says:
    October 12th, 2009 8:49 pm

    “Why do we need ISI.”???

    to counteract CIA and RAW’s nefarious activities, the two entities that hate ISI intensly, and perhaps to keep zardaris, sharifs and other polticians in ceheck.

  45. Riaz Haq says:
    October 12th, 2009 11:41 pm

    I think the position of the Pakistani military is much closer to the people’s stance on US aid than the current civilian rulers’. In the minds of most of the people, the generals opposing the conditions in Kerry-Lugar are real patriots standing up for the nation’s sovereignty. Coming on the heels of the successful Swat operation, such a situation is likely to raise the standing of the military while diminishing the stature of the politicians.

  46. montagnard says:
    October 13th, 2009 12:46 am

    The suspicion in many Pakistani political and military circles is that the supply of weapons and equipment from Afghanistan to terrorists in South Waziristan has some kind of support from “one or more levels” in the US military and intelligence on the ground in Afghanistan. One manifestation of this interference in Pakistan from the Afghan soil is the keenness, until recently, of influential US officials and commanders to focus the Pakistani military strength on the Afghan border and force Pakistan to cease viewing India as a threat, paving the way for granting India transit facilities to Afghanistan through Pakistani territory. In September 2008, Robert Baer, a former CIA field officer, wrote in Time magazine that Washington downplayed a series of actions by the US military and CIA in Afghanistan that almost led to a war with Pakistan. “The story has been subsequently downplayed,” Baer said then, adding “and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Mike Mullen, flew to Islamabad, Pakistan’s capital, to try to ease tensions. But the fact remains that American forces have and are violating Pakistani sovereignty.”

    Source: The National Ootober 13, 2009.
    Ref: http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/13-Oct-2009/Armys-options-can-go-beyond-Waziristan/

  47. Usman says:
    October 13th, 2009 2:24 am

    Armed Forces of Pakistan! These are the same tribesmen along with whom you expelled USSR from this region. They used to love you and you respected them. Then who is the one who turned you against each other? Indeed it all started with the advent of US troops in the region. Know thy enemy and support your brothers who are busy in expelling the crusaders from the region instead of lending support to the devil, the USA. Bear in mind, It is not acceptable in front of Allah (swt) in any case that you kill Muslims by allying with Kuffar. Allah (swt) said;

    وَمَنْ يَقْتُلْ مُؤْمِنًا مُتَعَمِّدًا فَجَزَاؤُهُ جَهَنَّمُ خَالِدًا فِيهَا وَغَضِبَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَلَعَنَهُ وَأَعَدَّ لَهُ عَذَابًا عَظِيمًا

    And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his Recompense is Hell to abide therein, and the Wrath and the Curse of Allâh are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for Him. (TMQ: An-Nisa; 93)

    You are the largest Muslim military power from Central Asia to the Indian Ocean and its you who have to take care of the Muslims of this region.

  48. Aamir Ali says:
    October 13th, 2009 2:35 am

    @Usman

    The US would not have come to this region if 9/11 had not happened, so your finger is pointing in the wrong direction. Additionally Pakistan’s war is with the Taliban and extremists, not with the tribesmen. The Pakhtun tribesmen have themselves been assaulted and murdered by the Taliban and their lands turned into a warzone by the Taliban.

    The USA is not sending teams to attack the Sri Lankan cricket, GHQ or political rallies in Pakistan, the terrorists are doing that. In addition the terrorists are killing Pakistanis in cold blood. So instead using religion as opium, as you are doing, use it to distinguish between right and wrong.

  49. Manto says:
    October 13th, 2009 3:13 am

    @Usman,

    you are a disgrace. How many people do these terrorists have to kill before you realize there is a problem.

    Maybe you should send those quotes to those terrorists, who have no compunction killing believers on a regular basis.

    People like you are a disgrace to our country.

  50. DARWEESH says:
    October 13th, 2009 3:34 am

    Matters taking very serious turn, thanks to RAW-CIA-MOSAD networks in Afghanistan and seceret pacts of Zardari-Nawaz Sharif with Americans.
    I foresee an interim Govt headed by Judiciary which may rule the country for two years backed by Armed forces ,then elections after clean up .
    Pakistan be saved and move on to be one of the peaceful regions in the world soon.

  51. Rabia Shawn says:
    October 13th, 2009 10:28 am

    Military is the main problem. They still control all politicians, TV Media and every other institution. Instead of reflecting on its mistakes and inability to protoect GHQ, it has a luanched a huge PR campaign to spin the event in its favor. And the media is bending backward to accomodate this.

    Come on media! Why don’t you ask tough questions? Why this happened? Who is responsible? How many more incidents like this will happen? They arrest these terrorists all the time, why can’t they cut the source of all terror? Or is it that they don’t want to?

    Matter of fact is. Pakistanies are sheep and they will be led by Wolf, be that Military, CIA or Taliban.

    Remember Miliary, CIA and Taliban were all partners very very recently.

  52. r says:
    October 13th, 2009 11:30 am

    @montagnard,
    Your comments carry some weight and I agree with your thoughts.
    Remember a couple of years back,Waziristan had turned its guns only on the US forces in afghanistan and Pakistan was reluctant to engage them even though not a day passed when Pentagon did not urge Pakistan to go engage them.There was no reason to do that.
    Then suddenly Waziristan turned its guns against Pakistani forces,suicide attacks increased manifold.Some militants arrested were found using weapons used by NATO.The US then gave a wierd logic that these weapons could probably have been sold by Karzai government to the militants and thus ended up in Pakistan.
    Musharraf was removed and enter Zardari who announces operation in waziristan and atleast two aid bills passed quickly.Now Pakistan is back in the good books now that the army has decided to send forces to Waziristan,something the Pentagon had been demanding for years.

  53. Asif says:
    October 13th, 2009 2:45 pm

    It’s hilarious reading the comments of people praising the army and ISI in one shape form or fashion or another. These are the same retards that view every attack in Pakistan as a zionist/hindu/american/maoist/gypsy/goat lovers/you name it conspiracy. Ignore the fact that the kerry luger bill attempts to subordinate the army under a civilian administration or that a weak army and a strong taliban are not in America’s or any other nations favor. It’s funny to see all these army/ISI loving patriots now singing it’s praises after a civilian government came into power. We forget sometimes that army has been in power almsot 80% of the time in Pakistan and has done shit for this country except losing one half of it in ’71, starting 3 non sensical losing wars with India and forgetting to do what its primary job is which is fighting. They’re to busy managing DHA, running factories and pan shops. They are a disgrace to this country and it just boils my blood when I read articles defending them. I wonder if these people are on the armies payroll or jsut been brainwashed so much by schooling in Pakistan that they cannot tell right from wrong. Don’t get me wrong, I support the army operation against the talibans wholeheartedly, it just that they have done a lot of things wrong and need to be put in their place. No matter how big the balls get, they always need to be under the you know what! Get your heads out of your behinds folks, we need the army but we don’t need to lick their boots. The deal is that we will respect and love them if they protect us, not rule over us as lordships. When they learn to do their one and only job properly then and only then do they deserve our respect and admiration.

  54. shakeel says:
    October 13th, 2009 3:03 pm

    People like Usman is exactly why we cant win this war.

    Enough said.

  55. Obaid says:
    October 13th, 2009 5:08 pm

    @Usman:

    Don’t worry, Army is giving ample time to terrorists in Waziristan to move away to other parts of the country before starting “operation”. Only those who are stupid enough to remain in Waziristan would be dealt with. Even those who are caught will later be released by courts or under deals.

    It’s not in Army’s interest to get rid of these terrorists. For one it needs strategic depth in the neighbourhood, and second it can always keep the nation scared to keep giving it massive budget year on year. General Kiyani’s hefty pension and privileges are safe as long as these terrorists exist. While these terrorists are being “dealt with” in north, more are being created with Army’s knowledge in southern Punjab and other places. Watch Mubashar Luqman’s program from last night (Monday) where DG Rangers Punjab admits there are madrassas in southern Punjab (and names of some of these madrassas were named) who are involved in illegitimate activities and foreign diplomatic officials visit these madrassas for support.

    This is a game, being played on the naïve people of Pakistan.

    But rest assured your favourite terrorists are safe.

  56. Aamir Ali says:
    October 13th, 2009 9:56 pm

    @Asif
    Army has ruled the country for half its period with civilians ruling for the other half. While accusing army supporters of being blind, I think you are also blind to the crimes, corruption and negligence of Pakistani politicians, who have been part and parcel of army rule and blunders which hurt Pakistan.

    We are supporters of the Army because it is an organized and well-functioning part of the dysfunctional Pakistani state, and because it is common sense to support Armed Forces in the face of internal and external dangers.

    I don’t regard Zardari, Nawaz Sharif or the jokers who brought us Nizam-e-Adl in Swat as being either capable, or even interested in defense or foreign policy affairs. They are in politics for status and to make money.

  57. basheer says:
    October 13th, 2009 10:25 pm

    I think the army has no appetite for politics right now. It is best for Army adn for country if it fights the Taliban and stays out of politics.

  58. rizwan says:
    October 14th, 2009 3:19 am

    “You are the largest Muslim military power from Central Asia to the Indian Ocean and its you who have to take care of the Muslims of this region.”

    @Usman: Are you for real? Dude, the challenge before us is our own survival. Are we in a position to take care of even ourselves?

    Don’t delude yourself by the grand dreams of rescuing believers from the evil clutches of kuffar. Those days are gone. If we are able to take care of ourselves, that should be enough. And what is this non-sense about Muslims vs. kuffars? Look outside your window. How many kuffars do you see out in the street trying to destroy Islam? All I see in Pakistan is Muslims vs. Muslims, or more accurately humans vs. humans. Where did you get the idea of some grand battle going on in Pakistan to defend Islam?

  59. Asif says:
    October 14th, 2009 1:45 pm

    @Aamir and other army lovers of Pakistan

    You say you have no appetite for jokers such as Sharif’s, Zardari, Bhuttos, Leghari’s, etc etc. List is long and I have the name of a few other political actors that should be here as well. Agreed completely! But what about the jokers on the other side. Is anyone forgetting Mushy, Zia, Ayub, Yahya Khan? Were these not jokers? Brother, problem is when the Zardari’s and Sharif’s are in power at the worst they can loot our country and people, destroy the economy, rape and plunder etc etc. But when you bring in the army in the equation you can also add destruction of the army to the equation. Reason is simple, any institution, organization, company is successful as long as it stays focused on one highly specific task. You know Toyota is going to fail as a car company when it enters the market selling shampoo. Army should focus on its job which is defending the country from EXTERNAL threats. Let these politicians run their corrupt schemes and let them finish their terms so they cannot say at the end that “saai haamaay kaam karnaay kaa mouqaa hee naheen milla”. This democratic wheel has to keep turning for it to become effective. India has a much higher poor and illiterate population yet they keep electing one efficient government after anothery. Guys, these were our countrymen not to long ago. People of Pakistan can do the same, they just need to be given a chance. Unfortunately like a lion that has tasted human blood, Pak army will not let go that easily. We need to shame them, if thats the least we can do.
    Disclaimer: Half my family is in the army.

  60. Syed says:
    October 14th, 2009 3:50 pm

    Ironically the picture says it all “the Army on one hand is trying to fight it out going in one direction and the limo is headed to another direction”! Tailpiece – even in these times the limo is not heading in the right direction!

  61. Aamir Ali says:
    October 14th, 2009 3:59 pm

    @Asif

    Army’s job is defending the country from both internal and external threats, not just external. The Army is doing its job.

    On the other hand the civilian do-nothing govt is wasting time and money of Pakistanis, while Parliament remains a rubberstamp and pseudo-analysts, media anchors and useless politicians spend most of their days blaring from talk shows and jalsas.

    So I think your anti-Army fervour is outdated, Mr Musharraf left power over a year ago.

  62. Asif says:
    October 14th, 2009 4:10 pm

    @Aamir and other army lovers of Pakistan

    You say you have no appetite for jokers such as Sharif’s, Zardari, Bhuttos, Leghari’s, etc etc. List is long and I have the name of a few other political actors that should be here as well. Agreed completely! But what about the jokers on the other side. Is anyone forgetting Mushy, Zia, Ayub, Yahya Khan? Were these not jokers? Brother, problem is when the Zardari’s and Sharif’s are in power at the worst they can do is to loot our country and people, destroy the economy, rape and plunder etc etc. But when you bring in the army in the equation you can also add destruction of the army to the equation. Reason is simple, any institution, organization, company is successful as long as it stays focused on one highly specific task. You know Toyota is going to fail as a car company when it enters the market selling shampoo. Army should focus on its job which is defending the country from EXTERNAL threats. Let these politicians run their corrupt schemes and let them finish their terms so they cannot say at the end that “saai haamaay kaam karnaay kaa mouqaa hee naheen milla”. This democratic wheel has to keep turning for it to become effective. India has a much higher poor and illiterate population yet they keep electing one efficient government after anothery. Guys, these were our countrymen not to long ago. People of Pakistan can do the same, they just need to be given a chance. Unfortunately like a lion that has tasted human blood, Pak army will not let go that easily. We need to shame them, if thats the least we can do.
    Disclaimer: Half my family is in the army.

  63. roxio says:
    October 14th, 2009 6:32 pm

    What’s wrong with Pakistan’s Army? A former officer’s perspective

    By Bill Roggio
    The Long War Journal

    Earlier, I noted that the Pakistani military’s lack of response to the assault on Army General Headquarters in Rawalpindi is going to have serious repercussions. A comment from a former Pakistani Army officer, passed along from my friend Ravi Rikhye at Orbat.com, drives the point home.

    The note below was written by Agha H. Amin, a retired cavalry officer in the Pakistani Army currently working for a power transmission company in Afghanistan. Mr. Amin provides a scathing look at the Pakistani military and its inability to quickly and effectively respond. The military’s authority has eroded and is no longer feared by enemies within the state, Mr. Amin argues, and the effectiveness of the terrorist assault and the poor response of the unit guarding the headquarters and the officers within make the military look weak. Here goes:

    The attack on Pakistani GHQ [General Headquarters] raises more serious questions about Pakistan Army’s military effectiveness and potency than answers.
    The most crucial and grave question is that the Pakistani military seems to have lost in a great degree its coercive value and moral deterrence. Something which is the foundation of any political system and on which all agree starting from Freud, Aristotle, Plato down to Marx, Lenin, Mao, and Khomeni.

    Once General Musharraf decided to make a U turn under coercion by USA the army lost its moral credibility in the eyes of a large section of Pakistani populace, not the majority but a sizeable minority far more effective in tangible potency than a far larger minority.

    The first most serious question is not from where the threat originated but how did a small minority of a few handpicked young men developed the resolution to attack the citadel of Pakistani military, the GHQ ? Its an intangible question but far more serious than whether these men had their organisational centre in Waziristan or Afghanistan.

    The second serious question is the response to the attack.Or one may say the lack of response !

    If ten or so armed men can terrorise and paralyse a half a million plus army’s headquarter for 22 plus hours the issue is strategic rather than tactical ! If ten civilians trained by irrational mullahs can penetrate a citadel hitherto considered impregnable and impenetrable and 1600 officers inside it are like chicken in a barbed wired coup at mercy of ten armed and highly motivated men then the situation is grave, not routine. A witness states that the attackers held some 4 to 6 officers from major to colonel rank hostages and also offered them their dry rations.This shows that the attackers wanted to deliver a message and did not want to inflict fatalities on the Pakistan Army.

    In a nutshell the serious aspects of the issue are :–

    1. The most serious threat to Pakistan is internal and not external.
    2. The military has lost its strategic and coercive deterrent value.
    3. That ten armed civilians penetrated a military headquarters guarded by an infantry battalion and a similar number of DSG soldiers [Defense Security Guards] is a serious strategic imbalance.
    4. That 6 plus armed men were roaming the GHQ for many hours and had the opportunity to kill many generals, an opportunity that they for some mysterious reasons chose not to exercise is a cause of grave strategic concern.
    5. The fact that the perimeter guarding battalion 10 Punjab although it killed some four intruders failed to hold the few attackers from penetrating the GHQ is a grave matter.
    6. The fact that the battalion plus DSG soldiers although armed with G 3 and SMG rifles just bolted away is a grave matter.
    7. The fact that it took more than 18 hours and the fact that SSG troops had to be brought from some 70 miles away to redeem the situation is ironic par excellence.
    8. The fact that Pakistan’s enemies both state and non state are so ineffective still is the only consoling part of the issue.

    Here is a case of a military machine :–

    1. Fighting a civil war with serious internal fractures.
    2. A military machine which has lost a great degree of its coercive value.
    3. Lack of initiative in the officer rank and lack of forethought in not allowing the some 1600 officers in GHQ not to carry weapons.
    4. The primacy of non state actors in Pakistan.

    Sad is the story. Hilarious are the praises being heaped on the military’s response. Where is the honour and dignity of danger in overcoming six well motivated irregulars by a commando force outnumbering them by 100 to 1. This is not a criticism. I am not a paid journalist. This is a call for reflection .Serious reflection and serious inner thinking that may be the spur to serious reorganisation in the Pakistani military. The enemy is not in Waziristan or Afghanistan. The enemy is our own damn inefficiency and complacency. It merits serious thinking at all plains, tactical, operational and strategic.

  64. PAKISTANI says:
    October 14th, 2009 11:45 pm

    Asif and all the Army haters,

    The army (countless Ghazi and Shaheed) have protected Pakistan for over 60 years. The fact that you are not a banya lala, you arse hole, is because of the Army. They are the ones who have protected your mothers from being raped by the Hindu and Sikh forces across the border. The shaheeds have sacrificed their today for your tomorrow, and all you ungrateful pigs can do is to act like hindu chuttyas and talk Sheit about the Army. Your ungratefulness puts even Afghanis to shame.

  65. Vaqas says:
    October 15th, 2009 12:55 am

    I hope that the military will remain professional and out of politics.

  66. Daud says:
    October 15th, 2009 2:03 am

    Very important for Pakistan that the military concentrates right now only on fighting the Taliban and ptting these killers and religious extremism down. Nothing else should be the priority of the military today.

  67. Calculating_Misfit says:
    October 15th, 2009 10:22 am

    @ Pakistani
    “The army (countless Ghazi and Shaheed) have protected Pakistan for over 60 years.”

    Really you mean by losing half the country with their antics and crude behavior (e.g. throwing out elections rightfully won East Pakistani political parties)? Or getting into bed with the Talibs that are now butchering us? Or allow these militants to brainwash our children? Thanks for your efforts in flushing us down the toilet.

    “They are the ones who have protected your mothers from being raped by the Hindu and Sikh forces across the border.”

    I don’t seem to recall the hindus and sikhs starting a war to rape our mothers, do you?

    “The shaheeds have sacrificed their today for your tomorrow”

    Nope, they have sacrificed their today to get rich tomorrow.

  68. shakeel says:
    October 15th, 2009 1:41 pm

    One of the reasons why Pakistan cannot move forward is that we cant let bygones be bygones. No, we have to bring old issues back on the table and discuss it as if it will solve anything.

    Forget who ruled ever since independence. Let’s talk about what should be done now!

    Army is corrupt and if it was not for my respect for those who sacrificed their lives, I’d even call them pathetic. (I mean, they have not won a single war, cant defend the citizens against terrorists, allowed terrorists to roam and kill people in Swat for years before they woke up etc )

    Politicians are the same thing. Anti Pakistan, sell outs, corrupted from toe to heads ..

    And ‘Pakistani’, please change your nick. It’s shameful that you have to use foul language in a discussion site. You are proving exactly why people dont want Army Rule in this country – you are not prepared to listen and understand other views; just like those so called heroes in green uniforms.

    The future of Pakistan is to be decided in the next few weeks I feel. Either there is no stopping her going down the drains, or else, she will rise up and defeat the enemy. Politicians, Army, people, and everybody else – corrupt and pathetic as they may be – need to join hands and forget their difference for the good of the Nation and fight together.

    We need to fight with a punch .. not with a weak slap. Together, we are strong.

    My personal prediction: Pak is finished. Hope to be proved wrong in few weeks.

  69. Nadeem Ahsan says:
    October 15th, 2009 8:38 pm

    Pakistan’s army is a democratic army trapped in an undemocratic polity. If it is becoming an undemocratic army, then we are responsible for pushing it in that direction.

  70. shakeel says:
    October 16th, 2009 5:58 am

    Our ‘democratic’ Army should have sealed and better protected our border with Afghanistan when this WOT started. Today, we would been better off!

  71. Aamir Ali says:
    October 16th, 2009 9:38 am

    @Calculating Misfit Indian

    Go to Kashmir or read about Partition to find Muslim women raped by Hindus and Sikhs. Please stay out of internal Pakistani matters.

Have Your Say (Bol, magar piyar say)