The women’s protection bill of Pakistan — which will dramatically alter the rape laws of Pakistan — has a chance of being passed this coming Monday. The bill is an attempt to reform the draconian rape laws of Pakistan from 1979, passed by then dictator Zia ul Haq under the auspices of the religious establishment (part of the hudood ordinance).
This has been a contentious issue in Pakistan (see my commentary on it here). I have been in correspondence with individuals who are involved in the Women’s Protection Bill. While on one hand they have had to contend with the religious establishment, they have also ran into opposition by some liberal groups, and international NGO’s like Human Rights Watch, who find the proposed amendments inadequate.
What the reformists are trying to explain, however, is that while total repeal of the bill would be wonderful, politics is a process, and that means taking whatever progress that can be gotten right now. While concerns about the fact that the bill is being pushed through by a dictator (Musharraf) are valid, they are unfair in light of the tremendous abuses that will be alleviated if this bill is passed. In the short term, the reformists — and those backing the bill — need our support. Later, more progress can be made.
In an op-ed that appeared in The Daily Times today (10 September, 2006) Feisal Naqvi points out:
…the response from women’s groups to the proposed Women’s Protection Act has either been hostile or at best, tepid. Instead of supporting the bill, women’s groups have only reiterated their demand for the complete repeal of the Hudood Ordinance. What these groups forget is that politics is the art of ‘the possible’. The Women’s Protection Act may not be perfect but it will certainly bring relief to millions of oppressed women. In any event, the fight for repeal can always be carried on later.
The reformists need to be recognized for the good they have achieved despite the enormous difficulties, and not to be criticized for what they have failed to achieve. The full article by Feisal Naqvi in The Daily Times is worth a read because it clearly explains what the issues are and how they are being dealt with in the new law. It concludes:
If all goes according to the government’s plan, much of what is undesirable in the Offence of Zina (Enforcement of Hudood) Ordinance, 1979 (to give the law its full name) will be quietly gutted through the proposed Protection of Women’s Act… The proposed law marks the absolute limit of what is possible in terms of today’s political climate. More importantly, the Protection of Women’s Act is not a whitewash job: instead, it addresses and fixes the major sources of women’s oppression under the Hudood Ordinance.
The best thing to do right now is to support the efforts of the reformists and later carry their torch further. It would be a terrible tragedy if after decades of efforts the amendments were tabled due to inadequate support by progressives. Well intentioned people around the world need to express their support. (For more see: ‘The Right To Own Women’ and Women’s Protection Bill Cheat Sheet). [Also see earlier ATP Poll on related issue].
Ali Eteraz describes himself as “a continental philosopher, essayist, novelist, student of Islamic arts, philosophy, jurisprudence and a practitioner of global nomadism” and blogs under this pseudonym at Eteraz, where you will find much on this and related subjects.
Adnan,
You have a blog and what you have posted above deserves a space on your blog. But I don’t think it is appropriate for you to start posting lengthy essays (which ramble on) in the comments section. Please refrain from doing so. Please spend time articulating your thoughts, and post smaller comments that provide specific insights into an open issue. Let others talk as well. Thanks.
As an administrator of the blog, I request all others to also follow the same rules. We cannot win arguments by shouting (though Pakistanis somehow seem to have a tendency to try so). Even my father never won an argument with me by shouting, so let’s be respectful and share our thoughts rspectfully so visiting this blog remains an enjoyable experience.
[quote post=”297″]have read the links provided by you of the alleged
amendments proposed by the Commission. [/quote]
Is it not silly?that is if it was really the case that they(who proposed
ammendments)think that only men had facilities because of “him” then its
really crappy complaint.
[quote post=”297″]WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE INHERENT PROBLEM WITH THE HUDOOD
(ENFORCEMENT OF ZINA) ORDINANCE, 1979?[/quote]
like there are problem with every other ordininance and laws in Pakistan.I
already stated in earlier posts that there are always need to refine laws
that is the reason constitution provides opportunity of ammendments even
Islam has provider opportunity to do Ijtihad to introduce new laws
accordingly but Islam also proposed few laws about certain evil things of the
society that is “Rape”,Inheritence,women rights.Dont you agree that Rape is
NOT a good thing whether its done by force or willingness?I dnt think there
is any country on face of earth which considers rape a Legalise thing.But the
question is that are new ammendments really gonna help women if this
country?Now read this section of ammendment
http://hudoodordinance.com/taqiusmani-article-p6.h tm
it’s in english so even non urdu people can read it.According to Orignal
text;if a man rapes an infant girl or a an adult woman;he should be
punished;people proposed ammendment that “adult” should be used for Women as
well;So after introducing the term ‘adult’,if some man rapes a girl who is
not adult then a man would not be consider guilty due to rape.
AS someone here stated about statistics of result of hudood ordininance;read here
according to his 30 women and 71 men were captured under hudood laws.Keep in mind that this stat was not prepared by some religious scholar of pakistan,it was all prepared by Gora sahab who was visiting Pakistan specially for Hudood law details and its outcome.Read what Charles Kennedy had said about Hudood law.
You can confirm from other source about both statistics prepared by him and then his words[now some of u might say that gora saab cheated and made fabricated documents] ?;)
[quote post=”297″]WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE INHERENT PROBLEM WITH THE HUDOOD (ENFORCEMENT OF ZINA) ORDINANCE, 1979?[/quote]
I stated the facts and figures above which were outcome of Hudood law.I am all in favor of refinment of any law of Pakistan but question was is there any justice being done by peopple who wants changes?I personally dont think so and i already cleared the reasons above.For me the main reasn of any law violation is weakest law enforcment.I dont deny that jails wouldnt be filled with women but were reallt captured under genuine rape cases under hudood law?Stats says otherwise.I believe police who is other name of SATAN have made false cases against those poor women in name of Hudood law.Look when a person can misuse Holybook’s laws then can’t he play with a man-made laws?Dont you know the power of fudals,peers,sains in our country and how they work in current govt and judicary system.Please stop being to an extreemist for a certain cabal just because you hate them.Same cabal hates liberals as well.Keep in mind that you can’t omit religious factor from this country no matter what.Even Mush applies all his force to put religon out from state’s business.This is not gonna happen anyway whether one likes it or not.I also woudnt favor anyway to throw religion out of business.Sad thing is that we people are not well aware of our own history and we believe in religious terms given by West.For isntance I know few guys who make fun of Shariah and says its not good.Just because they would have read in books or wtched on FOX that shariah is all about chopping hands off or shariah is all about Jihad which according to west is “holy war” which is nothing but sign of ignorance.Indeed when we will go away from our roots then certainly such elements will comeout who would neither in “Teen mey na tera may”.Neither I support Fazl ur rahaman ‘s lame statment when he said that Shokat Aziz doesn’t know Islam though Fazl dont know Shokat Sahab often arranges Quran KHuwani and milad at his home.Atleast he used to do it before.Nor I support any idea of implementing secularism or throwing religon out of business.
One of my new respected friend said in a email about current topic that Sufis like Nizamudian Aulia,Baba Farid etc also supported secularism which is not true at all.Yes they themselves didn’t take part in politics but history books does tell that they kept advising different kings of Baghdad(Haroon Rashid,Mansoor,Hajaj) and Hindustan(Tughlaqs,Nasiruddin Mehmood etc) of that time to run govt on basis of Islamic teachings.They had devoted themselves for Love of God therefore they didnt want any sort of hindrence between them and Allah.IMHO There was no other reason at all.
So I welcome all changes in laws or anything which are in betterment of people of this country.Mentioned ammendments were not in favor at all.Second law should be above than anything.Here law is slave of politicians so we cant expect anything good at all.For me presenc or absence of Hudood law or new Hudood law is meaningless unless we fix our court system.See what happened with Nishar park case,nothing and judges coudnt reach to conclusion due to limittion.*sigh*.
[quote post=”297″]am sitting in my A/c room without raising voice againt [/quote]
Hahahhaa!!I clearly said all words for human rights activists like Asima and Hina and others who cash such sensitive events for sake of donations.If you are not one then you shoudnt be so mad at all *grin*.I was referred as half-baked zeolots then you didnt react like that ?:D
I dont mind to be called as a fundamentalist ora religious zelot,even call me half bake but I am thankful i am not a liberal who are not clear what to follow or what not;as its said in urdu “Ghar ke rahay na ghat kay”.
[quote post=”297″]where you have reached the conclusions that secularism is synonymous with atheism, moral values.[/quote]
That just shows you didn’t read the post at all.If you would have read then you never said that it was my assessment that secularism is aethism.I clearly quoted the content from a site which itself quoted words from book of secularism.If I am lying then go back to my link and read quoted words in italics/bold fonts.So please don’t put your words in my mouth that I coined up the theory that aethism and secularism are same.You guys tries your best to twist the orignal contents all the time to the content which suits your intrest.i would request you to spend sometime on Google to know what actually founders of secularism had said and what was the reason to comeup wit term “secularism”.I woudn’t say further about it.You dont accept the orignal,fine It doesnt irk me anyway.I personally had a belief that secularism term is very vague and practically It doesn’t exist.Secularism which you and normally world belives is “Sepration of religion from state business” that is “Sepration of church and state” concept.I personally don’t know any state where ‘God’ is not involved in state rules or even if ‘God’ was not explictly used the machinary of Govt kept obeying a ‘God’ to run business.US is considered a secular state,they preach about sepration of church and state but several know the high influence of two religions;Judaism and Christianity.Same with India;on paper they are a secular state but when experience different events;its observed that one religion followers re after other religion followers(Muslims).Putting a bunch of multi religion people in govt doesn’t make a govt secular(Godless) anyway.A machinary would be considered Godless only if it is not taking any guidance from any religious books(Quran,Bible,Torah,Psalms,Ragved etc etc) and it’s pretty hard to believe that a human is not influnced directly or indirectly with laws of God.
[quote post=”297″]atheist have no moral values, hence secularist have no moral values[/quote]
Plain lie.I never said that.Dont put your words in mouth.Labelling aethism with secularism doesnt mean I am giving impression that I abhore it.My few friends are aethist and I have a good relationship with them.I just oppose any sort of secularism/aethism in Pakistan.Thts it! World has already experienced alot results produced by man-mad laws in different society.And again I request you to go back to history of secularism,i quoted statements from orignal authors who proposed secularism for the people who were having difficulty to adjust with a ‘God’ and they wanted an alternative to run a govt.When one has doubt about “God” then he/she seriously would not involve “God”‘s involvement in state business.How then you insisit me or orignal authors not to take secularism in similar lines?If you ask me as a muslim,I would never mind to involve in State;s business because I believe that GOd’s law are infinite time better than man-made laws.Putting God aside nd willing for alternative man-made laws clearly indicates that I have doubt that God’s laws are not reliable enough therefore shouldnt be implemented.Please also remember that secularism or sepration of state and church cameup after biblic verses.Even If I was a bible follower than I would be the first one to seprte bible from state business.Obviously after reading following verses,I would definately not want to see bible as a part of country’s business.
God places a dollar value on human life; with women worth less than men.(Leviticus 27:3-7 )
According to this OT verse,a woman is less precious than a man.Did you find any such verse in Quran which states women less Important than a man?
Another verse:
A woman can’t make a vow unless her husband allows it(Numbers 30:3-16)
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. [a] He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (New International Version)
Godforbid,we muslims believe that Moses(AS) was nevered order to do this by Allah and its plain human fabrication.
I believe in presence of such corrupted OT’s verses in name of God will certainly make me feel that God’s rule are not ‘accurate’.But as I say,we feel outself educated by copying westernize terms without going into depth *sigh*.
Adnan,
It seems like you are under the impression that no one except you in the world reads, however, I wanted to assure you that:
(a) I have read the post on your blog, where you have reached the conclusions that secularism is synonymous with atheism, atheist have no moral values, hence secularist have no moral values.
(b) I have read the links provided by you of the alleged amendments proposed by the Commission about inclusion of the adult in front of woman in a clause and changing the language from gender neutral “him” to gender specific “her”.
(c) I have also read in the same article point made by the author about Quranic zina and the law of zina as codified by the Hudood (Enforcement of Zina) Ordinance, 1979. I have also read his point that challenging zina as mentioned in Quran would be against the basic doctrine of Islam.
(d) I have also read your point of view that NGOs have done nothing for women in Pakistan except exploit their vulnerability.
(e) I have also read the point made by you that the only reason for amending the Ordinance is the pressure from USA.
(e) I have also read that I am “liberal degree holder jahil”, “crappy copycat version of West is always ready to buy every shitty things from west”,”pseudo intellectuals who rejects everything without reading it”,”fat aged divorced women who has been living in big banglows” and that I am sitting in my A/c room without raising voice against Honor Killings,KaroKari,Vani traditions.
I just wanted to let you know that I have read every word of wisdom that you have painstakingly pointed out to a jahil like me. Now, I have a simple question for you:
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE INHERENT PROBLEM WITH THE HUDOOD (ENFORCEMENT OF ZINA) ORDINANCE, 1979?
or if you prefer the question:
WHAT DO YOU THINK [liberal degree holder jahil”, “crappy copycat version of West is always ready to buy every shitty things from west”,”pseudo intellectuals who rejects everything without reading it”,”fat aged divorced women who has been living in big banglows” and that I am sitting in my A/c room without raising voice againt Honor Killings,KaroKari,Vani traditions][please choose at your discretion] CLAIM IS THE PROBLEM WITH PROBLEM WITH THE HUDOOD (ENFORCEMENT OF ZINA) ORDINANCE, 1979?
Good news is that finally both partieis has reached to conclusion.I just read in Jang in details.Ulema comitte which i think being led by orignal author of Hudood law(Taqi Usmanni) have comeup with following further suggestions which are skipped by people who propose ammendments.
Its a jang Clip so its in Urdu and I believe all of you can read urdu,if not then very shame (kidding).
-One point which I also forgot and raised here is “marrying with Quran”.Many of you would have heard that xyz young girl married with quran then she is not wed again with any men.
I wonder how our “educated libera” group who proposed new LAW forgot this?
-2nd point is that women are practically stay away from properly and it happensin Pakistan.
-Forced Nikah yes it happens in both rural and urban areas where some fudals force girls to marry with people of their own choice while Islam clearly allows to select the partnerof own choice.
-Watta Satta without willingness.Yes it happens in villages
-Selling and buying of women
and there are few more points-Read Jang multimedia edition.
Now the thing is that why these most important points were not Raised?Does anyone here in favor of these points?Believe me that most of the time i read news which covers above mentioned points rather about any other topics like zina bil jabar and with willingness.Why these issues were left untouched?If they were really sincere for women these things should have been addressed but as I said,they cameup to create fuss in awam rather solving problem.
If th4ese liberals are so keen to solve problem then why noone of them comes on road and start chanting “go fudals go” and “getrid of jali makhdooms and pir” [eg Makhdoom Amin Fahim and Faisal Saleh Hayat and Pir pagara].Why noone comes out against legharis,doltanas,chaudharis,bhuttos etc.Offcourse when human right activist Asima Jehangir will come out to mourn on bugti’s death then one can easily figure out how sincere they are.
The main issue with Pakistan is NOT law but its appliocation.Many of you guys would be aware but I was not that there are laws in Pakistan against Wall chalking ,spitting on roads,throwing garbage infront of homes.But it seems they are not because they are not implemented.And no law could be sincerely Implemented unless systems admins dont get serious and honest.Whether its a hudod law or a spitting law,we will keep whining about disasters on different forums.
p.s:Mariam,my belovd and old friend,The comitte of Ulema who proposed ammendments along with govt officials were NOT part of any religious party so there is no concept they would have tried to get political seats.
you would have been answered above.Now you would learn further that who was actualy blackmailing?May Allah increase your ignorance further-Ameen